Any other flightstick options for the Xbox 360?

[sasquatch]

I'm looking to pick up a flightstick really soon for my 360. I know that both the Saitek and the Ace Edge will both work with BOP but I have concerns about both....namely the cost of the Ace Edge and the quality and ergonomics of the Saitek. Other than those, I'm not aware of anything else that's available for the 360.

Anton, can you tell us if any other flightsticks will be available for the Xbox and Birds of Prey? If these are my only options, I'll probably go the Ace Edge route. I just don't want to drop $100 on a used flightstick only to find out that something new is coming available.

[Raw Kryptonite]

I'd love to hear of some others coming out too. I've got the Aviator and the placement of the buttons on the front faceplate is just plain awkward. Good for lefties I guess, but either way one shoulder button and one stick button are going to be obscured by your hand/arm working the stick. Just not a great layout, although the rest is ok.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Anton, can you tell us if any other flightsticks will be available for the Xbox and Birds of Prey? If these are my only options, I'll probably go the Ace Edge route. I just don't want to drop $100 on a used flightstick only to find out that something new is coming available.

All (Ace Edge and Aviator) flightsticks will be supported.
Ace Edge is better (in my opinion), but it is more expensive.

[sasquatch]

Thanks Anton! You've helped me make my decision.

[guiltyspark]

All (Ace Edge and Aviator) flightsticks will be supported.
Ace Edge is better (in my opinion), but it is more expensive.

quick question

does the rudder control on the ace edge map to the throttle thing underneath the handle?

In otherwords all we have to do to control ALL thrust is move the slider up and down?

[Anton Yudintsev]

quick question

does the rudder control on the ace edge map to the throttle thing underneath the handle?

In otherwords all we have to do to control ALL thrust is move the slider up and down?

If I get this correctly, you asking how to control throttle on Ace Edge?
There are 2 items in Ace Edge - on is flightstick (plane controls), the second is throttle.

[guiltyspark]

If I get this correctly, you asking how to control throttle on Ace Edge?
There are 2 items in Ace Edge - on is flightstick (plane controls), the second is throttle.

no i am asking that on the throttle , that switch underneath is used to control the rudder right?

[Roadie]

It seems, that the Ace Edge flight stick for the XBox360 has a very large dead zone (digital?). I think, I buy the game for the PS3 by using the T-flight stick Hotas X from Thrustmaster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW4Dgm29p0

[Desode]

It seems, that the Ace Edge flight stick for the XBox360 has a very large dead zone (digital?). I think, I buy the game for the PS3 by using the T-flight stick Hotas X from Thrustmaster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW4Dgm29p0

It depends on the game. I use it on Raiden Aces and it has a adjustment in game where you can have zero deadzone if thats what you want, so its not in the stick itself. Its in the the game's programing.
DESODE

[Raw Kryptonite]

Dammit, I want one of those! I've got the Aviator, but I'm afraid it's just going to frustrata the crap outta me with all we need to do with this game and limited buttons/access.
The one the PS3 can use needs to make it's way to the 360 as well, it looks pretty nice.


Anton: have you guys had any new sticks to test for people with your game? Heard of any new ones on the way? I seem to collect these things, wouldn't mind adding another. :-P

[BadKarmaSutra96]

Maybe Anton can pull some strings with Hori corp and have them release a black Ace Edge stick in a limited edition IL-2 combo package. Call it like "Real Man's Ace Edge Flightstick" for REAL MEN who play IL-2. Not those girly men who use the grey and green ugly ace edge stick :grin:

As if anton didn't already have too much to do to get IL2 released.

[Roadie]

Hi Anton,
could your team test all flight sticks on the market, which are compatible to XBox360 and PS3? There could be problems with some flight sticks, and I don't want to buy a flight stick, where the right programming is missed between the game and the flight stick in acc. to Desode as shown in my posted Youtube video.

Thank you in advance!
Roadie

[Raw Kryptonite]

maybe anton can pull some strings with hori corp and have them release a black ace edge stick in a limited edition il-2 combo package. Call it like "real man's ace edge flightstick" for real men who play il-2. Not those girly men who use the grey and green ugly ace edge stick :grin:

As if anton didn't already have too much to do to get il2 released.

sold!

[sasquatch]

Well, I bit the bullet and bought a new ace edge flightstick bundle on ebay today. Okay, now bring on the game!

[Desode]

Hi Anton,
could your team test all flight sticks on the market, which are compatible to XBox360 and PS3? There could be problems with some flight sticks, and I don't want to buy a flight stick, where the right programming is missed between the game and the flight stick in acc. to Desode as shown in my posted Youtube video.

Thank you in advance!
Roadie

Dear Roadie Thanks for your reply. I don't think your understanding what I'm saying. So I will try to explain this better. When the Ace edge comes out of the factory brand new,the sensors inside the stick, that track any movement of the stick, in any direction, are made so the joystick has no dead zone.

The joystick is not made from the factory with any dead zone. When a Game Developer creates a game , they write the programing and the code for the game. This includes the controls. What happened with Ace combat 6 is that the Developer's Screwed us ! The joystick didn't.
The stick has no dead zone. They put the dead zone in there on purpose ! So that a person using a flightstick would not have a advantage over a person using a controller.

In my video I show a good way to test this, and that is to use the ace edge flight stick with other games. If the dead zone was a fault of the stick itself(how it was made), then its not something you could fix, by programing. That deadzone would always be there in every game if it was fault of the Ace edge's construction.

Since Raiden Aces is a collection of what some people would call one of the best top scrolling shooters of all time,, The developers knew that any of use that have a Ace edge flightstick would want to use it to play the game.

When they added in Ace edge support to Raiden aces, they had programers that knew what they were doing ! They understood that this game was in the actual arcade with a flightstick ,so they made a game with the flightstick in mind.
They added a setting to their options that enables you to adjust the dead zone. See some people ( I don't know why !) want a certian amount of deadzone in their joystick settings.
I want NO dead zone. I mean if I move that stick even a hair ! I want that movement to happen in game.
Thats what this video I made shows. The dead zone that you have shown in your video is not because of the Ace Edge joystick. The Ace edge has no dead zone. It all up to the programers who make the game.

I hope this better explains what I'm saying.

Here is a short video I made:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XnuXVObLgI

I want to thank Roadie for bringing this topic up for us to talk about.
Thanks for your time and consideration, DESODE

[guiltyspark]

honestly the whole deadzone thing means absolutely nothing

I played through all of ace combat and didnt have a problem

[Roadie]

Ok, thank you Desode for this exactly report!

So Anton have to look, that there are flight sticks on the market, where dead zone adjustion could be at the sticks, and he have to pay attention about this problem.

[Marchochias]

I wasn't aware that there were any flightsticks for the 360 that would work with IL-2.

Good thing I saw this thread.

What is the "Aviator" flight stick like? I haven't seen any of these at the local electronics stores I've checked.

[guiltyspark]

I wasn't aware that there were any flightsticks for the 360 that would work with IL-2.

Good thing I saw this thread.

What is the "Aviator" flight stick like? I haven't seen any of these at the local electronics stores I've checked.

http://www.saitek.com/uk/images/product/av8rxboxv2.jpg

thats the aviator


here is the ACE EDGE

http://www.slipperybrick.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/ace-edge-flightstick.jpg

[Marchochias]

Thanks for the pictures, I looked it up but couldn't find out how much either of these flightsticks cost.

[BadKarmaSutra96]

I have a Saitek Aviator. I use it for ace combat 6. I find that the handle is a little stiff and not very ergonomical. If it had a rubberized handle or something it might not be so bad. It is functional though and is a step up from using the standard game controllers. I like that the handle twists for rudder control. I find I can do more precise flight maneuvers with it than I could with a standard controller, which is needed when using planes like the A-10. Without it I would often spin upside down and slam into the ground a bit too often.

I got my Saitek for I think $50 USD.
The Ace Edge stick was a limited edition product sold in late 2007. But you can find it on Amazon.com for around $140, or used on EBay for somewhere in the $90-130 range.

[Marchochias]

I think I'll go with the Saitek one for 50 bucks, I'd rather not pay over a hundred bucks for something that says "Ace Combat" on it :D

[Steiner]

The new Hori Xbox 360 EX HOTAS

http://www.hori.jp/products/xbox360/controller/xbox360_flightex_black/image/xbox360_flightex_black_05.jpg

[Desode]

The new Hori Xbox 360 EX HOTAS

http://www.hori.jp/products/xbox360/controller/xbox360_flightex_black/image/xbox360_flightex_black_05.jpg

I like the black ! I might have to paint my Hori Ace edge black !
Nice find , I'm glad to see Hori is make more of these sticks so people can get them. DESODE

[Mr_V]

I assume this is just an "unbranded" version of the Ace Edge, and as such will work with BoP?

Any links to more details about it, like a product page or (preferably!) somewhere that sells it? :)

(This makes me quite nostalgic for the old Saitek X35/36 setup I had before the Cougar…)

[Raw Kryptonite]

I don't think that's available outside of Japan, is it?

[Steiner]

http://www.hori.jp/products/xbox360/controller/xbox360_flightex_black/image/xbox360_flightex_black_13.jpg

You can start your research here:

http://www.hori.jp/products/xbox360/controller/xbox360_flightex_black/

[Steiner]

For you PC flight simmers, meet the new king of the HOTAS world.

Logitech G940 Flight System

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/joysticks/devices/5855&cl=us,en&readreviews=1

http://images.pcworld.com/news/graphics/166034-flightsystemg940_family1_lo_350.jpg

System Requirements

o PC with Windows® XP or Windows Vista®
o CD-ROM drive
o Internet connection required for installation
o 25 MB of available hard drive space
o USB 2.0 port
o AC power connection (110-230v)

Software

o I-FORCE™ Force Feedback Technology Licensed from Immersion Corporation.
o Logitech™ Gaming Software for Windows™

Technical Specifications
Joystick

o Precision force feedback
o 2-stage metal trigger
o POV Control Switch
o 8-way hat switch
o Six programmable buttons
o Pinkie shift button
o Three analog trim controls
o Contactless X & Y positional sensor
o Rubber feet with base mounting points

Dual throttle

o Split design throttle with interlock and adjustable tension
o Two 4-way hat switches
o Four programmable buttons on grip
o Two rotary analog controls
o Eight programmable base buttons with independent interactive LED backlighting and user changeable legends
o 3-position mode switch
o Rubber feet with base mounting points

Rudder pedals

o Realistic rudder pedals with stainless steel treads
o Toe brakes
o Adjustable resistance control
o Retractable carpet lock
o Rubber feet with base mounting points

All buttons, switches, and axes are fully programmable

o 8-foot (2.4-meter) cable connector

[BadKarmaSutra96]

I did a little digging into that Black Hori Flightstick. From what I can tell only 2000 were made and they run on Ebay for $250-260 US.

[Riceball]

That price is laughable.

Does anybody know what the control layout is for the gamepads? I'm hoping for an option to have left stick:pitch/roll, and right stick:rudder/throttle.

I've never used a flight stick before so i think i'm better off sticking with a good old controller.

[Marchochias]

That price is laughable.

Does anybody know what the control layout is for the gamepads? I'm hoping for an option to have left stick:pitch/roll, and right stick:rudder/throttle.

I've never used a flight stick before so i think i'm better off sticking with a good old controller.

360 controllers are certainly better for flying than standard mouse and keyboard (which is why joysticks were almost required for flight sims on PC really).

Still, joysticks are really easy and fast to learn. It's very intuitive, or at least I thought so when I used em on PC way back.

[Riceball]

I'll probably get one at some point, especially with the prospect of a sequel if BoP does well. Which I believe it will.

[mondo]

Please say that CH hardware is supported on the 360! :D

[Steiner]

That price is laughable.

Does anybody know what the control layout is for the gamepads? I'm hoping for an option to have left stick:pitch/roll, and right stick:rudder/throttle.

I've never used a flight stick before so i think i'm better off sticking with a good old controller.
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3174970&p=4
You use the left-analog stick for pitching and yawing, while the right stick handles the throttle and rudder -- you don't need to hold the throttle forward to keep speed up a la Blazing Angels, however; you can set it and then leave it alone. The upper left of the screen displays the throttle, airspeed, ammo, and altitude numerically, while the upper right shows the radar -- a very minimal interface overall. You fire with the Right trigger, cycle through weapons with the Left bumper, and use the Back button to control the landing gears.

The D-Pad commands your fellow squadmates: left to assist you, up to attack the current target, etc. You cycle through targets by pressing A, and by holding it down you can lock-on. Once you target an enemy, you can track their position by holding down the left trigger. If you want to see the view from behind, you can press down on the right analog stick, or you can cycle through various views with the Y button.

[The Few]

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3174970&p=4
You use the left-analog stick for pitching and yawing, while the right stick handles the throttle and rudder

The article must have made a mistake. The rudder is what controls yaw so there is a redundancy. The left analog stick will probably be pitch and roll.

[Steiner]

Yeah, I think he meant roll...:|

http://www.metrorcflying.com/images/corsair_anim.gif

[BigDaddyAB]

Guess I'll be starting with a controll pad. Cant believe that my flying skill would suffer that much without a stick. But then again depends on hoe difficult the simm really is. But never really needed a stick unless using a lot of radar controlls and missle selects.

[juz1]

just picked up an aviator in JB hifi (Cheltenham)...was hard to find down under

so far...nice stick, and 4 times cheaper than the HORI-

now to velcro the base to my desk...;)
________
Autozam (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Autozam)

[mondo]

Guess I'll be starting with a controll pad. Cant believe that my flying skill would suffer that much without a stick. But then again depends on hoe difficult the simm really is. But never really needed a stick unless using a lot of radar controlls and missle selects.

For a simulator a pad will be hard to fly without a ton of filtering .

Think about it, your moving a 2ft long control column with a 1cm long stick with maybe 2cm of deflection.

If you move that stick from centre to lock your moving the entire control surface's range of movement quicker than any pilot could move it and with no feedback (at 300mph most WW2 fighter control columns will need 20lbs to 40lbs of pressure to move the ailerons or elevator) which in any WW2 plane will cause a stall if not a spin. This is the problem of making a sim work with a control pad.

Even doing that on a 1ft long flight stick (try it out in IL2, you'll stall a plane most of the time ramming the stick from lock to lock) will still cause problems but at least the range of defelction you have with a stick means you can make gradual and more controlled movements and filtering and stick settings are able to be used to make a meaningful effect.

[Mr_V]

At least the thumbsticks on the controllers of the two current-gen consoles have 10-bit precision.

That said, I agree entirely: If you fly a sim, use a proper stick. Period.

[Siege777]

Wish there was some way to plug USB flightsticks into the 360. I have a Cougar and can't see spending more money on another HOTAS just for Xbox.

[trk29]

Wish there was some way to plug USB flightsticks into the 360. I have a Cougar and can't see spending more money on another HOTAS just for Xbox.

This confuses me. Xbox is M$ and pc's are M$ and they don't even give you this option. Stupid.

[Mr_V]

It's not really all that confusing. An Xbox is not a PC. You can stick any USB controller into an Xbox 360 for more or less exactly the same reasons you can't do so on a PS3.

[Marchochias]

This confuses me. Xbox is M$ and pc's are M$ and they don't even give you this option. Stupid.

It's because the PC joystick doesn't have software to run on a 360 operating system, only on a PC.

Same reason a program designed to work on Windows XP might not work on Windows Vista.

Also, if Microsoft DID make it possible for any USB device to work with a 360, you better believe people would be plugging in all sorts of cheating devices. Even using a USB mouse in COD4 or some other shooter would be an unfair advantage.

[trk29]

It's not really all that confusing. An Xbox is not a PC. You can stick any USB controller into an Xbox 360 for more or less exactly the same reasons you can't do so on a PS3.

Uh, yeah it is confusing.

My M$ Sidewinder Precision joystick works on my ps3. And I have used it to play Blazing Angels, and Hawx.

[Roadie]

Could you spezify your joystick exactly and write the correct name? I'm very interested, if it could be compatible to BoP and the PS3!

[trk29]

The only thing that didn't work was the yaw (twist of the stick)

Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2 Joystick

We know the Saitek AV8R will work which I also have, but not so sure about the T hotas.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HC8SE6JVL._SS400_.jpg

[Lashenden]

I'm told by another member that there may be a software update coming along so that a wider range of usb joysticks can be used on Xbox 360. Any truth in that, and will my . old, cheap but effective Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick be one of the lucky ones?
Guess it was inevitable that Il2 fans on Xbox would be as demanding as they were on the PC....

[Rabin]

The dead zone issue still makes this unplayable for me on 360.

I have IL-2 (1946+) and RoF on PC, both respond beautifully to flightstick inputs. BoP has a horrible deadzone with the AV8R that the devs claimed was down to MS Drivers, yet we've seen reports that other titles can configure the dead zone.

On games like Ace Combat and HAWX it's not a big deal (unless you're trying to score cannon kills) as the missiles 'lock on' within a certain tolerance. Unfortunately that's not the case for the guns on WW2 aircraft.

Why can't BoP get rid of the stupid deadzone in what is supposed to be a 'flight sim' after all? :)

[InfiniteStates]

I'm told by another member that there may be a software update coming along so that a wider range of usb joysticks can be used on Xbox 360. Any truth in that....
If you have a look around the forum, you'll see that the mystical 360 patch is just that: possibly just myth and legend and this stage. There is still optimism for it, but as times moves on, the hope becomes less.

[stealth finger]

If you have a look around the forum, you'll see that the mystical 360 patch is just that: possibly just myth and legend and this stage. There is still optimism for it, but as times moves on, the hope becomes less.


that would be in a patch from ms to enable more sticks and change the deadzone