Cost of Units.

[Morgoth]

Guy's,can you tell me why the King Tiger that was involved in WW2 is more costly to buy in the game than the USA T29,British Centurion & British Turtle,none of which was involved in the war,& all of which are capable of taking out a King Tiger or any other German Tank or SPG for that matter,please.:-)

[Evilsausage]

Very simple.
No matter if they are protype tanks, The king tiger is still better. It has the best gun mounted on a tank.

Centurion can't win against the KT unless it shoots it from the side. But most decent tanks can kill a king tiger by doing that.
Centurion got a crappy gun compare to the KT and its armor is not as good. Its basicly buildt for flanking tanks like king tigers.


Turtle just can't beat a king tiger. Even tho turtle got better armor then the king tiger the KT still got like twice as good gun. Turtle is basicly an elefant with a shitty gun and its really slow.

Its only the t-29 that is close to being as powerfull as the KT. Tho KTs gun is still slightly better.
Jagdtigers are excellt for dealing with T-29s because they can just drive up to em and shoot em without even risking of being penetrated. Or just get a Sturm tiger and kill it with one shot.

So if KT was cheaper it would be OP and it would be even more late game KT spam.

[Morgoth]

Very simple.
No matter if they are protype tanks, The king tiger is still better. It has the best gun mounted on a tank.

Centurion can't win against the KT unless it shoots it from the side. But most decent tanks can kill a king tiger by doing that.
Centurion got a crappy gun compare to the KT and its armor is not as good. Its basicly buildt for flanking tanks like king tigers.


Turtle just can't beat a king tiger. Even tho turtle got better armor then the king tiger the KT still got like twice as good gun. Turtle is basicly an elefant with a shitty gun and its really slow.

Its only the t-29 that is close to being as powerfull as the KT. Tho KTs gun is still slightly better.
Jagdtigers are excellt for dealing with T-29s because they can just drive up to em and shoot em without even risking of being penetrated. Or just get a Sturm tiger and kill it with one shot.

So if KT was cheaper it would be OP and it would be even more late game KT spam.

Thats rubbish,read the description of the Centurion tank on the game itself,if it came against german panthers & tigers they would have stood no chance,also the turtle had 217mm penetration,162mm for centurion,you might say that the centurion may struggle vs the king tiger,but the centurion cost 76 compared to 120 for king tiger,so the likelyhood of you buying one,if that,isnt likely is it,& a turtle which can easily knock out a Kingtiger is 95 cost compared to KT,my point being they should cost nearer the same amount,not such a big difference cost wise.:evil:

Also,remember a Tiger costs 62,a panther cost 70,only 6 less than a tank which the game itself says in a dual both would lose vs centurion,so why such a big gap cost wise between KingTiger,Jagdtiger & centurion or turtle is i think another important point.

[Evilsausage]

I can agree that the price on the centurion is abit low. But Centurions should be better then Tigers and panthers.
The Centurion was a next generation tank and it was to be used many decades to come.
In a game full of late game units and protoype tanks. Tigers aren't that powerfull anymore. They came out in 42 but by the time of 44-45 they weren't as deadly.
In real life they mostly fought shermans/t-34s/cromwells etc not prototypetanks.

The Reason i can think of why centurion is so cheap is because its buildt for flanking and its hull armor isnt very good.
Centurion may have 160 mm armor on its turret. but its hull armor is actually only around 80! So truth is its not as badass as many people think it is and it can get fucked up by a panther in a duel.
Making the centurion much more expensive to use it would be no point in getting em for flanking enemy superheavy tanks.
I personaly prefere to fight king tigers with achilles instead of centurions. Just cuz they are cheaper.

And no a turtle can not easily knock out a king tiger. Both tanks has to be pretty damn close to even have a chance of penetrating eachother.
Reason why turtle cost 95 is because it lacks a turret and is mega slow.

Turetless units are always cheaper because they are so much more limited.
It may be good in face to face combat but if it gets flanked its in trouble. specially if someone disable its tracks.
I still think turtle is rather shitty. id pay 5 extra points any day to get a elefant with better gun, better speed and almost as good armor.

[Morgoth]

I can agree that the price on the centurion is abit low. But Centurions should be better then Tigers and panthers.
The Centurion was a next generation tank and it was to be used many decades to come.
In a game full of late game units and protoype tanks. Tigers aren't that powerfull anymore. They came out in 42 but by the time of 44-45 they weren't as deadly.
In real life they mostly fought shermans/t-34s/cromwells etc not prototypetanks.

The Reason i can think of why centurion is so cheap is because its buildt for flanking and its hull armor isnt very good.
Centurion may have 160 mm armor on its turret. but its hull armor is actually only around 80! So truth is its not as badass as many people think it is and it can get fucked up by a panther in a duel.
Making the centurion much more expensive to use it would be no point in getting em for flanking enemy superheavy tanks.
I personaly prefere to fight king tigers with achilles instead of centurions. Just cuz they are cheaper.

And no a turtle can not easily knock out a king tiger. Both tanks has to be pretty damn close to even have a chance of penetrating eachother.
Reason why turtle cost 95 is because it lacks a turret and is mega slow.

Turetless units are always cheaper because they are so much more limited.
It may be good in face to face combat but if it gets flanked its in trouble. specially if someone disable its tracks.
I still think turtle is rather shitty. id pay 5 extra points any day to get a elefant with better gun, better speed and almost as good armor.

Same restriction you applied to Turtle also applies to Jagdtiger,but that isnt cheap is it,also if you look at the armour range to armour penetration of a Centurion mean's from longer distances Panthers & Tigers dont really have a chance vs one,so cost should reflect that,particularly as you yourself said they were a next generation tank,so should automaticaly cost alot more,maybe 100 compared to 120 for Kingtiger,that would be fairer i think.:-)

[Evilsausage]

Sorry man but your way off again.
Reason why Jagdtiger cost more(only 15 points) is because it has better gun, better armor and better speed.

As for the centurion... Panthers vs Centurions are actually pretty even in a 1vs1 duel. Centurions gun is only slightly better however panther has better frontal armor.
Tiger would lose but it cost 14 points less.
I mean seriously 100 points for a centurion? Who would ever use it? Centurion isnt even in the same league as the big King tigers, IS-3s, t-29s.
But more close to a panther with weak hull armor but badass turret armor.


You seriously need to actually play the brits and you will notice that the centurions and the turtles arent that great.
They really don't have any powerfull lategame guns that can match the heavy german King tigers, elefants and jagdtigers.

[Morgoth]

Sorry man but your way off again.
Reason why Jagdtiger cost more(only 15 points) is because it has better gun, better armor and better speed.

As for the centurion... Panthers vs Centurions are actually pretty even in a 1vs1 duel. Centurions gun is only slightly better however panther has better frontal armor.
Tiger would lose but it cost 14 points less.
I mean seriously 100 points for a centurion? Who would ever use it? Centurion isnt even in the same league as the big King tigers, IS-3s, t-29s.
But more close to a panther with weak hull armor but badass turret armor.


You seriously need to actually play the brits and you will notice that the centurions and the turtles arent that great.
They really don't have any powerfull lategame guns that can match the heavy german King tigers, elefants and jagdtigers.

I played in a match against the british as the germans in the boccage map,& saw 1 Centurion take out King tiger,front armour,panther,elephant & jagdtiger,the same centurion mind you,& all on there front armour,so there preaty nifty for a tank you dont seem to rate.:-)

It actually took a sneaking flamer guy to finally finish off that Centurion.:-)

[Evilsausage]

You must have been on drugs or something. Because its pretty much impossible to penetrate the King tiger with a centurions 17pdr gun.
And Jagdtiger!? No gun in the game can shoot throught its 250 mm armor.

Only way i can think of centurion could win is that it shoot the tank in the Belly as it was going up a hill.
Or you played some weird ass mod.

[Morgoth]

You must have been on drugs or something. Because its pretty much impossible to penetrate the King tiger with a centurions 17pdr gun.
And Jagdtiger!? No gun in the game can shoot throught its 250 mm armor.

Only way i can think of centurion could win is that it shoot the tank in the Belly as it was going up a hill.
Or you played some weird ass mod.

Well there is a kinda exploit in the game if your firing at the front of a tank but you command your unit to fire at the engine at the back,alot of the time you get a result.:-)

[TLC]

Morgoth are u sure ur being completely honest? Anyway it could have been luck, like the schell went through the viewing slit or hit the bottom armour or something, which can happen occasionally. For example I once killed a T-34/85 with the 20mm cannon on a PzKwII, front armour, because the cannon shell went through the viewing slit. Remember this game has very complex tank models and ballisics physics.

[Zeke Wolff]

Morgoth are u sure ur being completely honest? Anyway it could have been luck, like the schell went through the viewing slit or hit the bottom armour or something, which can happen occasionally. For example I once killed a T-34/85 with the 20mm cannon on a PzKwII, front armour, because the cannon shell went through the viewing slit. Remember this game has very complex tank models and ballisics physics.
Yes it has... but as a vehicle modeler, I can assure you that none of the models has no openings in their hit volumes for viewing slits etc. Sometimes a shell manages to knock out a tank by sheer luck. I have once knocked out a Panther with a Sherman M4A1 firing at max range, and the shell went straight thru the Panthers frontal armor. Freak accident. Nothing else.

~Zeke.

[Mekushikurih]

as far as i know Centurions saw very very limited service in WW2, actually i cant recall a combat action..

KT can&must have a higher price tag because of its limited production numbers.

i can say that even i did not started to play the game :D

[Morgoth]

Guys,guys,guys,if you right click on the centurion tank,in the buy mode of multiplayer you will get the specifics of the tank,& i quote abit of it here for you."The Centurion arrive tolate for WW2,but,had it happend,the German Panthers & Tigers would have had little or no chance of victory in a duel.The new vehicles had an excellent shell-proof capacity,& their stabilised long-barrelled 76mm guns could quickly destroy almost any enemy."

And as i said thats a quote from the game,not me.:-)

Also as an interesting added point,the Mk3 Centurion,is to date the only tank that,after being placed 500 metres away from an atomic bomb test was still able to be driven away afterwards,hence its nickname the atomic tank,other tanks from other countrys have been tried without success.

Also production of the Mk2 as featured in this game didnt start till November 1945,6 months after WW2 ended,& never actually entered combat service till December 1946.But the Centurion holds the record as the longest serving tank with the MK 3 being used as AVRE's in the 1991 war with Iraq with the British.

[akito272]

Frontal armor in KT is around 150mm and sloped. There is a calculation depeding on the angle of the sloped that you use to adquier the actual effective protection.

But no 17prd gun will ever go through a KT frontaly. Neither a 76mm or anything.

The only gun i can realy put my money on is the Super pershing(90mm) and the IS3(122mm)(and by size of round only).

But truth is that theres no evidence in RL of any KT ever pentrated frontaly but for gameplay well yeah make it weak to something xD

[Morgoth]

Frontal armor in KT is around 150mm and sloped. There is a calculation depeding on the angle of the sloped that you use to adquier the actual effective protection.

But no 17prd gun will ever go through a KT frontaly. Neither a 76mm or anything.

The only gun i can realy put my money on is the Super pershing(90mm) and the IS3(122mm)(and by size of round only).

But truth is that theres no evidence in RL of any KT ever pentrated frontaly but for gameplay well yeah make it weak to something xD

You forget that its not all about gun size,many things effect the effectiveness of a gun,from barrel size,to muzzle velocity,to shell design,you guys are just assuming that all say 75mm guns,or 120mm guns are the same,there not guys,the 75mm high volocity gun of the Panther could kill bigger tanks from further away than the bigger sized 88mm gun of the Tiger.

As another example,the Jagdtiger had a 128mm gun,the American modern day Abrams tank has a 120mm gun,not as big as the Jagdtiger's,but considerably more destructive,with a longer range,see my point guys.:-)

[akito272]

You forget that its not all about gun size,many things effect the effectiveness of a gun,from barrel size,to muzzle velocity,to shell design,you guys are just assuming that all say 75mm guns,or 120mm guns are the same,there not guys,the 75mm high volocity gun of the Panther could kill bigger tanks from further away than the bigger sized 88mm gun of the Tiger.

As another example,the Jagdtiger had a 128mm gun,the American modern day Abrams tank has a 120mm gun,not as big as the Jagdtiger's,but considerably more destructive,with a longer range,see my point guys.:-)

I posted that two guns with out saying why. the 90mm in the super pershing has the muzzle velocity/shell size/etc to penetrate. In the case of IS3 the sheer weight and size of the round destroys hulls. The power in the blast(nasty gun).

Off course not always size of ammo is an indicator of penetration value.