Beating the game without any unit losses (Paladin)

[Chase]

Hey,

Im playing paladin for the first time on Hard this time around. And I wanted to try beating the game without any unit losses.

I have however found that this is impossible during the initial training as the Priest uses a damage spell on you that kills units within the stack he picks. I guess I could use ressurection, but I would rather save it until I can learn it and not waste it in the 2nd battle in the game.

Also after some failing on the dragon I noticed that I could just run around him and snatch the princess :).

My short-mid term plan is to go for the frog wife with royal snakes and get 4 archers and this should work for a while atleast.

So how do I pull this one off? And any futher tips are greatly appreciated. I really struggled with this fight last night.

[Zuvio]

Impossible Paladin with no losses by Sector24 (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=4979&highlight=necromancy)

Enjoy!

P.S. there is no way to beat the emerald training dragon without losses. Indeed save the princess without engaging the dragon. For the mage trial, just reload until he does not use magic axe. It depends on luck. After a reload, position your troops elsewhere on the map to reduce the chance of getting the magic axe.

[Xantus]

Sector24 did it on hard not impossible.

Dismiss the weak unit (or does it count towards losses) leaving only horsemen and knigts you will get the initial troops after the trial anyway.

[Chase]

Thanks to the both of you!

Yeah it was the magic axe that keept making trouble for me. Ill try the reloading trick :)

Is there a way to see what counts as a unit loss without beating the game? It would be nice if I could keep track of my losses during my campaign. Especially as Im not sure if dismissing units counts towards losses.

Do you also lose days when traveling between the different zones on a continent? Im also using this run to get the feel for a good Impossible score run. I read that you loose quite alot when traveling between the different continents, but I am unsure how the days pass in general.

My initial strategy is to get the Inq upgrade fast with the inq/priest belt (as its not that rare) while having the frog wife with royal snakes. Perhaps even pick up the normal snakes and drop the archer alltogheter.

Priest, Inq, archmage and 2 snakes should be viable for a while.

Ive never actually tried the Griffins as I dident feel I had room for they, are they actually that viable?

[Ryder]

I finished an impossible Paladin game with no losses last night. You can complete a stack of quests before you even start fighting. On another thread I named 22 quests you can do with only fighting the Robbers and the Turtle.

Dismissing units doesnt count, only losses in battles count. I had some evlins eat some of my army and they didnt count.

Because I dont start fighting until I'm about level 6 it makes the battles alot easier as my army is pretty good. You should go to the Alchemist guy in the Marshan Swamp and get some Alchemists off him, they are great for early in the game. Also, when you recieve the potion from the witch to blow up his little chemistry set, make sure you 'use it', the result is quite funny. (If you havent done so before).

My army for most of the early part of the game was Archers, Inquisitors, Griffins, Alchemists and Evil Beholders (from Western Islands).

[Zuvio]

Just make sure that after each battle you do not have any units in the losses screen. So sacrifice + resurrection does not give you unit losses.

[Razorflame]

aren't there alot of thread already about games without unit losses?

first thing u need is ALOT of patience:)

if you do the sacri+resu+magic spring trick:)

and by not killling the dragon u lose alot of XP

and besides do the trials work on the actual game?

since it's a tutorial

[Chase]

@ Ryder: Thanks for the starter advices. Initially I had some problems around lvl 1-2 so I just went around and did quests until I was level 4. Then I started picking off the weaker units. So your advice helped alot. I will also pick up alchemists, but Im unsure where to sub them in to my current setup :).

@ Zuvio: Yeah I am currently. Res have helped me alot and Im unsure if I could do it this "easily" as a mage or a warrior :).

@ Razorflame: Yes I noticed a few of them after I made my post. Im still new to the forums so I had a hard time navigating as all the information is a bit spread out :). Im also not sure if losses in the tutorial count, but even tho the dragon is a good chunk og xp it would be horrible to beat the rest of the game without any losses only to find that those 2 units you lost on the dragon did count. As for patience Ive had to reload a few times. Especially on the werewolf "boss" as they managed to rush me and infect my archers. But I got there in the end :).

Progress:
Im now level 5 and Ive cleared out 1/3rd of the continent and completed 15 quests. I currently use Horsemen, Griffins, Archers, Priests and Archmages. I found a tactic that works well for me now and its sending the the Horsemen with Priest bless and Archmage shield in for soaking. The Griffin is support in the back and my casters buff the Horsemen or dps the closest target. I havent been able to find Royal Snakes yet as they arent in any of the normal locations, so Ive had a bit of bad luck there. But I found 300 griffins at the guy who keep the frogs as slaves so I hit some luck there.

I really enjoy playing my paladin this way and I would advice more people to try it out. Probably the most fun Ive had with a character initially, but it does require alot of thinking and some reloading :).

I also found the +1 speed snake boots so I wish I had some luck with the royal snakes soon. But Im not sure where I would fit them in my current setup. Same goes with Alchemists. I HAVE to fit the Royal snakes tho as they are my mid game strategy with the frog wife and especially now that I found the boots.

Im also going for Inq's in the mind tree by puting 1 point into everything and Im only a few levels off. I have so many viable strategies to try out that I just cant wait to get home and play more :D.

Btw could the frog wife be bugged for me? She doesnt want to talk to me except to say "quack quack". Or do I have to trigger her somehow? I dont think I had to do that in any of my previous games, but I dunno.

Anyhow Ill keep posting about my progress if people are interested :). Thanks for all the advice so far!

[Razorflame]

a bad unit choice if u ask me :)

furthermore before the frog wife talks to you, you need to go to the arlania castle and start the quest there:)

[Chase]

How is it a bad unit choice? Im very open for input :)

[Ryder]

I hate Archmages, I feel they offer nothing. I dont think you get 'bang for your buck' so to speak.

You might be able to get some Royal Snakes in the cave in Arlania (Snakes Underground). See witch Helga, I reckon she'll sort you out. It's the first right passed the Magic Range.

[DGDobrev]

Archmages are only useful for their shield skill. It's downright great. Shielded green dragons and giants usually mean no losses battle as long as you have the proper spells.

[Razorflame]

archmages are very good in the beginning their no range penalty is excellent for hitting the archers in beginning(and their shield is good for a tank)

and for a better unit input

i would suggest

Priest>inqi ASAP
horseman or griffins>royal snakes
don't keep 2 melee units in the beginning

with some proper unit control u can fed off most beginning units with 4 ranged and 1 tank

for a steamrolling beginning
i would suggest this input

INQI(must have)
horseman/royal snake(any of those whichever is avaible)
alchemist(great unit (killing thorns and poisiong the other)
archmages (see above)
and the level 4 unit u get at arlnia after dragon fang quest(unless it's a undead commander)

i mostly get shamans there and they are just GREAT to say the least their abilities are just POWER :)

when u get lucky u might get demons and well they don't need any further introduction ^^

[Zuvio]

archmages are very good in the beginning their no range penalty is excellent for hitting the archers in beginning(and their shield is good for a tank)

and for a better unit input

i would suggest

Priest>inqi ASAP
horseman or griffins>royal snakes
don't keep 2 melee units in the beginning

with some proper unit control u can fed off most beginning units with 4 ranged and 1 tank

for a steamrolling beginning
i would suggest this input

INQI(must have)
horseman/royal snake(any of those whichever is avaible)
alchemist(great unit (killing thorns and poisiong the other)
archmages (see above)
and the level 4 unit u get at arlnia after dragon fang quest(unless it's a undead commander)

i mostly get shamans there and they are just GREAT to say the least their abilities are just POWER :)

when u get lucky u might get demons and well they don't need any further introduction ^^

One or two shamans isnt all that great and else you need sacrifice which is unlikely to be in starter area.

[Razorflame]

i've always gotten sacrifice when i got shamans there:)

and 1-2 shamans are great their totems block enemies for a while
and u can concentrate on others
and the decreasement in initiave from the totem of very good:)

use the shaman to the best of your ability!

[Zuvio]

I have only ever gotten Ents, Demons and Dark Knights there. And never sacrifice. I did get sacrifice twice at the swamp lady the king's brother wants t marry.

[Razorflame]

wel there is a luck factor in what u get there:)
but the best thing is they are all level 4 units :>
and sacrifice to raise them up

and i think shamans are best their abilities rock so hard:>

[Vilk]

Archmages are only useful for their shield skill. It's downright great. Shielded green dragons and giants usually mean no losses battle as long as you have the proper spells.

That late in the game I'm not sure, but Archmage small teleport skill is excellent and has many application. One quite cool I like use a lot is set a trap where an enemy unit will go, enemy unit fall in trap. Next turn, Archmage use its teleport to move back the enemy unit, again trap at same place and again the unit felt in the trap. Quite cool to win time against a very strong enemy stack.

Another very nice application of the Archmage teleport is to win this movement point allowing hit an enemy unit at an important time.

Or with an enemy unit slowdown this skill make you win a turn.

EDIT: I also never get sacrifice there and also only at one of witch in swamp.

[Razorflame]

true archmage has USEFUL abilities:)

[DGDobrev]

Well, when you're facing powerful enemies and you're playing with a tank, things change. You will want that tank to survive long anough for your other units to deal with the rest of the enemy army. In that case, shield is paramount. Your tank will last twice as long with it, and with target, all other enemy units will attack it (as long as they are not lvl 5).

So far this tactic works wonders for me. I do lose units, but selectively (only the ones I can replenish in the same area), and because I'm not so keen on making 80 round battles to ress my entire army. Having emerald dragons as a tanks, 2 types of fairies, archmages and inquisitors drops down pretty much any enemy now on impossible, even if they are strong/very strong. I also have dryads and hunters in reserve. No ancient ents though... not a single one to recruit in my game so far.

I am tempted to try a multi-thorn strategy, drop the dragons and the archmagi and use thorns from the dryads and the royal thorns to act as a meat shield... It will be interesting. Now at day 6 in the death valley... things start getting rough.

[Razorflame]

so u skipped half the battles?
:>

[DGDobrev]

I haven't skipped a single battle. The XP table on impossible is different, you know? That's why I'm only lvl 21 now. I didn't fight the kraken, yes, I left it for later, since I'm planning to return for anga's ruby, but we'll see.

[Chase]

Again thanks for keeping my thread alive with nice insight and input :).

As for the Archmages, their shield on my horsemen have helped me alot and saved me many a reload as they simply dont die. Basically Ive used the frost arrow on whatever unit came closer to my casters during turn 1 and used the priest as a healer/blesser on the horsemen. When the casters had nothing to do they would always focus the 2nd closest one, the one without the frost arrow effect.

I dident have alot of time to play last night, but I managed to go see the underground witch to pick up some royal snakes, the alchemsist for some alchemists and Im now happily married with a frog. All in all a nice foundation for this weekend when I plan to have some long good sessions :).

So my current setup is: Royal Snakes, Archers, Archmages, Alchemists and Priests. The few battles I did with this setup was just awsome. Ive noticed this in earlier games, but the computer does seem to favour attacking my alchemists and thats really good for me when Im aiming for 0 deaths.

Now I just have to decide on how to best build my spirits. in past games Ive always tried using all of them during battles just to build their experience. This has worked out nicely, but I lack an overall good spirit plan for this kind of gameplay.

Just keep throwing ideas and suggestions into this thread, they are greatly appreciated :).

[Zuvio]

Swap out priests for inquisitors. Their resurrection works like a heal, but can ress people as well. Also you can do without bless.

[Chase]

Yeah I will, Im still working on reaching the upgrade in the mind tree. Only a few levels away.

[Chase]

Or not..

When I came home and sat down to play the game it apparantly wouldent let me. If I try click "New game", "Load game" or "Options" then the game just throws me back to Windows. I just get a message telling me that kb.exe has stoped working.

Spent a few hours trying to fix it by trying some of advices on the tech support part of the forum, but nothing helped.

I guess thats its then for my adventure..

[Calinda]

Just reinstall it ... Saves usually aren't in the game folder, so reinstalling should work fine.

[Razorflame]

that is some bad luck rofl:) but should be fixed with reinstall:)

and why the F*** u use archers? they are expensive in leadership and their damage is quite low compared to it

your better of with a evil beholder/alchemist/cannonneer just to name a few almost every ranged unit is better than an archer :)

[Vilk]

that is some bad luck rofl:) but should be fixed with reinstall:)

and why the F*** u use archers? they are expensive in leadership and their damage is quite low compared to it

your better of with a evil beholder/alchemist/cannonneer just to name a few almost every ranged unit is better than an archer :)
I agree that Archer are a little over evaluated but it's hard to deny that they can get strong bonus that those you quote cannot have (you can add Catapult). That's the dragon arrow spells, the elf bow, the archer warrior talent and the archer leadership bonus you can learn both in warrior tree.

[Calinda]

Telescopic sight, morale from marshal's baton, initiative from banner of heroism and probably there is even more stuff that works on archers that neither Vilk nor I have mentioned ...

[Vilk]

In fact Telescopic sight works for mechanical units so not only Archer. And Dwarf unit can also get morale bonus, probably more than human, and get Leadership bonus. The initiative bonus works too for Catapult.

But yes that's the point the numerous bonus dedicated to Archers. Quote that the animal bonus doesn't work for Beholders (I'm not fully sure of this but almost).

[Razorflame]

i don't care how many bufs an archer gets it's just a crap unit with crap abilities

sure u can buff your archer easy
my beholder wouldmake it to sleep easy
or hypnotize it to waste it's turn

archers are slow

[Chase]

Ok. I eventually got the game working and have been busy playing it since Friday more or less :).

Archers, yes they suck and they pretty much always get focused. But early their frost arrow helped me a lot as it kept hostile mobs away for 1-2 turns. I guess I could probably have used priests in their spot. When I go for Impossible with no unit losses I most likely will. That extra heal helps a lot in order to keep the losses down.

I’ve had countless games where I’ve only lost 1-2 units. Often as the last unit would hit my royal snakes and kill a couple, then the royal snakes would kill them in their retaliation and voila reload time.

I only ever use 2 spells now. Resurrection rank 2 and Healing rank 3. I cant upgrade Resurrection to rank 3 as I will only to cast it twice then due to my 61 mana.

I just got Lina as well, but I don’t really get an opening to use Orb due to the way I play right now.

Now I use:

Royal Snakes
Cannoners
Inquisitors
Evil Beholders
Alchemists

Reserve: Archmages and Archers.

I don’t really like the Alchemists at this point, but they server their purpose as I’ve run into the Giants. And their Earthquake makes going for 0 losses horrible if you don’t have units with a lot of hitpoints. Especially as I can only use my res (Inquisitor) on a level 4 unit once during any battle.

So to wrap it up, I’ve cleared out the Freedom isles with all quests except 3 named heroes. (Egby, Puppeteer and Bart Bart this game.). And Im running around in Upper and Lower Hadar now killing what can be killed without to many reloads.

I also use my spirits alot as their extra damage help me quite a bit. So I got the rage spirit exp talents in the Might tree, while I went for level 3 order magic + 3/3 healing in the Magic tree.

If people care I can probably upload my savegame. But unless someone asks for it particularly I won’t.

It is really weird playing like this as I play extremely aggressive and defensive at the same time. (lvl 15 and 0 losses so far)

As always, inputs etc are welcome! :)

[Ryastar]

Chase, are you aware that you can cast lower level version of a spell by holding shift (for level 2) or ctrl (for level 1) down when clicking on the spell's icon. You are NOT forced to use the spell at the highest level available. That should make things a little easier for you.

[Razorflame]

how many days u have past?

[Chase]

@ Razorflame: 9. But half of that has been due to waiting around for mana regen for ressurection. Also Ive been a bit to generous with going back and forth to pick up units. Ill crank it up tho when I try copy this on Impossible down the road :).

@ Ryastar: That helps alot, thanks :)

[Razorflame]

on impossible u will have a harder time ^^

[Chase]

That is granted =). But this game I havent had much luck. Got Royal Snakes and Inqusitors really late. While I havent seen any artifacts worthwhile yet.

Mana is a major issue for me however (timewise). So I will most likely pick up mana regen and see how that works out.

[DGDobrev]

Why didn't you try making a good game setup for yourself? Doing the entire test takes like 5-10 minutes at most. After you leave the school and talk to king mark, save in something like... Game start. Then scour quickly the surrounding buildings of interest (castles, temples, mage towers, the horsemen camp, inns and furious paladin house) and see what they have to offer. If you're not satisfied with what they have, start a new game, do the Test again, save and check the game out. It takes a few tries, but sooner or later you'll get what you need to start well.

This is the best way to start off the right foot, have a good army and try to do a good game with no losses.

In my eyes, any special challenge one can think of should be started like this to ensure a smooth going :) I'd rather waste 2 hours in making myself a good head start that waste 20 hours to cope with the problems the game's throwing at me.

[Razorflame]

i just want to make the best of everything:)
^^
keeps the game challenging that way:)

[Chase]

Ill will do that when I try copy it for impossible. Starting out with Inqs will help so much.

Also I found playing with griffin and horsemen in the same group quite viable. I used the Horsemen as tank and the griffin as hit and run attacker with quite a nice amount of hitpoints.

The 4 ranged tactic I run now seems alot of effort but I dont know. Granted having them at range is nice, but you can just as easily jump around with a fast melee attacker if you use the wait function well.

Oh I ran into my Double last night. What a big lump of fun it is to face Royal snakes, Alchemists, Cannoners, Inqs and Evil beholders and not plan on taking any losses :).

[DGDobrev]

Well, if there are alchemists against you, or any non-retaliation unit for that matter, the battle always ends with no losses. I just love alchies... put them in a corner, put your strongest (with most HP) unit in front of them and just start ressurrecting your army at will :)

[Chase]

Could you please elaborate on that tactic? :)

[Metathron]

I guess he means put Magic spring on the unit blocking the alchemists, so you regain mana which you use for resurrecting.

[DGDobrev]

Absolutely. You can also use chargers and whatever else you have available, just not cloud of poison, because it will move and may kill the unit you have left alive till you have your army fully ressurrected.

[Vilk]

Bears of any kind are the best source for infinite mana regeneration with Magic Spring (until you get some rage skills and use inqu to regen rage):

Bears has a special and very interesting talent, when they don't do nothing a turn they fall asleep. When they are asleep they don't retaliate when they are hit.

The trick is use teleport or Archimage talent teleport to move the sleeping unit close to enemy unit. There's few point to take care of but with any long range enemy that works like a charm.

[Razorflame]

it's fun ^^:>
but also cheap ^^

[Vilk]

In fact this work against any unit but with long range it's more easy to organize and get a good setup to do this. But with non long range units it's fine too but more difficult to reach a position where you can start the trick. In fact the key point is related to initiative if you have Magic Spring level 1, at level 2 there's much less problems.

Obviously if you have bear in your army and Cardinal and Gift or Resurrect the key point of any battle isn't to not have loss but to reach a final position where you can apply the trick. :)

[Chase]

I would like to thank all of you for holding my hand while I did this challenge. Basically it wasent so hard in the end once I had a 120 manapool paladin and abused Time Back like there was no tommorow. After a certain point you can turtle the enemy for many many turns in order to regain the mana you need to resurrect your faithfull troops. This was mostly an issue when I faced large stacks of dragons as they often get the initial burst and wrecks havoc on my overall strategy.

In the end I would rush in ewith my Dryads or my Royal snakes. Then have them tank the initial burst from whatever decided to hit them. I dident need to use Target for this. Then at the end of turn 2 I would just timeback the stack in question. This was the strategy that worked the best for me as it prevented their melee from walking towards my ranged units.

So again cheers for keeping this thread alive and I hope you will contribute to my new challenge post. Impossible mage with no unit losses :)