Impossible warrior on freedom islands

[Zuvio]

Hello

I got to freedom islands with my warrior. I used horsemen for tank, archers, inquisitors, archimage and priests for buffs/damage. When I got to the islands, i switched out priests for cannoneers, because priests have low damage against non-undead, inquisitors give bless anyway and healing is pointless against large stacks.

Enemies now are a few slightly weaker, some matches but most are stronger and very strong.

My problem is this: with some tactics I can take out an enemy. But of course I lose many units in the process, especially horsemen, since i use target 3. Even with Glots armour, archimage shield, stoneskin 3, source of magic 3 i still lose many horsemen. I also lose some other units, but marginally. I do not have gift, sacrifice or resurrection so i can only use the inquisitors ress one time, which is of course not nearly enough.

Also, I only have 25/51 inquisitors, 14/28 horsemen and 17/23 cannoneers. Without sacrifice, i have no way of increasing these numbers. I have 2 Demons available in Dragon Tooth tavern after doing the Fang quest, but w/o sacrifice i cant use them. I also have 50 Evil Beholders available on the Western Island.

How can I beat Freedom Islands with level 9 on impossible?

I continue to lose units and am unable to replenish them. Am I out of luck due to not finding sacrifice? I have the tactic ready to ressurrect all my units after battle with target, source of magic 3 etc. but i dont have the necessary spells.

If needed, I can upload a savegame of me standing on western island with all items collected and no enemies yet defeated.

I am puzzled how someone like Calinda could beat freedom islands on level 10 with just one run through.

Thanks for your time.

[Zuvio]

Maybe someone could post a savegame of their own where they are on the freedom island on impossible difficulty with a warrior and let me figure it out on my own. I learned a lot already from Calinda's savegames, but i dont have access to those abilities yet. So I am basically in need of earlier tactics.

[Elwin]

You would be really lucky if u have found sacrifice so early, for me it was the hardest part of the game, problem is as already stated not much units available, not much spells, 2 (or 3 if u get Lina) rages. Personally i was loosing hell much but i was just getting wat was available, pirates, devilfiesh, berserkes whatever, it was not best strategy lost a lot of gold but i have done it ;p Also used royal snakes they are in quite much number available and with frog feanora quite powerfull.

[Zuvio]

I see, so you zerged your way through the freedom islands. I do have the money to back up such a strategy so i will consider it. I would place my horsemen and inquisitors in a garrisson and then zerg the enemy with buyable units. This would allow me to clear the islands, as long as there are enough units left to buy. I do think I would run out of units at one point and then i would have to go back to darion to buy the horde mobs. What a nice slaughterfest that would be :grin:

Thanks for pointing that out to me.

However, I would still like to continue the thread with other more strategic options if any are even possible at the moment. My tactic was to have 4 ranged units and one tank. However, this tactic isnt really working at the moment since I have no way of undoing the losses of my tank. So unless there is a specific way of playing with losing as few units as possible, I think zerging is indeed the only way here for me.

I definitely am not trying a no-losses game, just an as-few-losses-as-possible game with nice tactics.

I could also just pay lucky the 100 grand, but I am just dying to find out the tactics and setup the pro's used when they cleared freedom islands in one go without going back to darion.

[Elwin]

Yeah i am quite curious how other managed with it, altough it was my 3rd game and i knew about it pretty much couldnt deal with it in other way than zerg them down. I also knew that if i manage to do this way and capture Bogacho stright after that i have already won the game, and so it happened.
No matter how enemy stack is big with timeback, icethorns stonewalls ice orbs phantoms and some nice units like sprites skell archers demons everytihng will die mosly without loses. The only problem i had was heroes like Xeona, Baal, lvl30 tournament one, and Bagud.They are all pretty tough to beat

[Zuvio]

Ok, I have done the following:

garrissoned my horsemen, inquisitors and cannoneers since I have no option to buy them at this point.

bought griffons as the new tank, kept archimages for shield + shock, bought royal snakes, devilfish and evil beholders (forgot about their mind control ability!)

I ditched the zombie wife and got the frog wife, now waiting on her to change to a frog. I also had the option to buy the snake boots. Royal Snakes wreak havoc once again. Evil beholders' mind control also wastes a turn of an enemy, what a powerful spell this is.

I already cleared half of the main island in one go with this setup, including Tiberius. I just have to make sure I dont lose snakes or griffons, since those are the only two mobs I can not buy on freedom islands.

I guess I was just too concerned with a strategy for an army which I was not yet able to employ. It will come when I have all 4 spirits and hopefully some good spells.

[Ryastar]

One warning (and it's entirely possible that you don't care, but I'm still gonna point it out), if you try to do the freedom islands in one trip, and never return, then you will never get the item Anga's ruby, one of the best in the game. I'm going to assume that you know what I'm talking about, since you mentioned browsing the forums.

On a different note, if you have ever found/seen the spell gift, that is what you need in order to use inquisitors as your ress support. It costs 20 mana (!), but it replenishes all charges of the targeted unit's abilities.

[Zuvio]

One warning (and it's entirely possible that you don't care, but I'm still gonna point it out), if you try to do the freedom islands in one trip, and never return, then you will never get the item Anga's ruby, one of the best in the game. I'm going to assume that you know what I'm talking about, since you mentioned browsing the forums.

On a different note, if you have ever found/seen the spell gift, that is what you need in order to use inquisitors as your ress support. It costs 20 mana (!), but it replenishes all charges of the targeted unit's abilities.


Thanks for the info. I should have been more elaborate in my original post. I have completed the game two times on easy and normal as a mage and warrior respectively. I now want to complete the game on impossible before I am able to put it behind me. But impossible is proving to be quite a bit of a job, so I went to the forum to look up some strats, but most posts are in detail of the late game, after freedom islands. And most strats involve the use of spells which I dont have, hence my difficulties with freedom islands.

I killed ambrosius in the savegame calinda provided and was kind of focussed on that type of tactic. But obviously you can not start that way, you need to be able to get to that point in the game where you have all four spirits. Now I realize you could pay Lucky the 100k, sneak through creiston mines, upper hadar, lower hadar to taron mines and try to beat Bogacchi castle, but i dont like that path. I like the path of killing everything (except for certain battles such as Enemen etc.) when you face it. Completing half the game and then returning to the start to start fighting is not my way. And especially since I know it can be done since several people have done it with very high scores. If you beat the game in under 10 days, you are progressing linearly.

I just would like to know the secrets, as do many i guess :grin:

The last game to have gotten me so hooked was Baldurs Gate II. Ironman solo sorcerer haha :D

P.S. indeed, I would go back for angy's ruby for completion's sake, but only for the ruby, I strive to have everything cleared out the first time I am there.

[Zuvio]

Ok, so being able to go to freedom islands on impossible on level 9-10 and clearing it in one go means relying on two things: access to inquisitors and finding the spell gift. Without these two early on you have no change of completing the game in 7 days game time. Sacrifice, resurrection, hypnotize are not necessary at all. Nothing is, exept for inquisitors and gift and making sure you do not lose any inquisitors until you either find more inquisitors or sacrifice.

[Elwin]

I had no inqis, and gift in elf land ..

[Zuvio]

I had no inqis, and gift in elf land ..

Sorry, I meant with the strategic approach with minimum losses. Zerging of course also works.

[RomanowRomanow]

Just use Frog wife with all 3 types of snakes + inquisitors/evil beholders and whatever else u want - snakes will massacre the redbeard's army themslves and u gain access to dwarven mines

Another VERY important hint: ALWAYS sweep wherever u can WITHOUT fighting to gather all cash/items/flags whle luring away th enemy THEN buy bigger army/items and come back to fighting.

On impossible TRADE is crucial!!! one crapload of scrolls from few areas can be worth even 50000k and u can sell every item u've been using for the same cash u purchased it when u find a better one.

Last hint: start all upgrade fights with strongest possible rage attack or a geyser spell - it can decimate entire army and pull down or significantly damage the pesky towers - ull sustain much less damage this way and a ppure int mage can 1-hit many battles with geyser

with 35-40 intelligence u do around 2k dmg to 8 targets and 5-6 dmg with fire rain spell[with 30%+ fire amulet]

[Elwin]

I think person trying to do impossible already know that. Its about warrior so high int spells is bad here.Also 1 hiting battle with geyser on impossible will not work, stacks are too big. And for upgrades strongest items on impossible gremlins got like 10k+ hp so this 2k is not realy much ~~. They are quite easy with srpites/lake fairies and archers like hunters and dragon arrowed skells

[Zuvio]

Well I've been doing some thinking about calinda's savegame he posted in the impossible warrior challenge thread, and the only way to pull that off is to be extremely fortunate with items, spells and units in the game. There is no way you could pull off those end statistics if you do not have gift, many inquisitors available to buy, target, slow and source of magic before you go to freedom islands or find the spells on freedom islands.

I get the limited horsemen thing, you only need the amount the tent gives you in greenwort. You are not losing any units so need for sacrifice. However, this does require you to have many inquisitors (25+) available to buy in order to be able to resurrect. Then of course you also need gift, source of magic and target. Then you need to play long battles with enemies to get out without losses and as much rage and mana as possible.

For the gift ressing, this gets quite tedious as your only way to restore mana is through source of magic. Some battles just seem impossible to regain enough mana to ress the dead due to enemy units not cooperating.

I would love to see the savegames of people who got 1650+ scores on impossible with a warrior when they are in darion and freedom islands. Basically before you get reaper spirit because its from there on.

Funny how i struggle more with the beginning of the game then the end in terms of fastest playthrough with minimum losses.

[Calinda]

Actually I did have sacrifice; for units - I used the same that you mentioned in the first post in this thread, but managed to keep the stacks maxed almost all the time. And I think I was lvl 11 when I went to islands.

[Zuvio]

Hi Calinda, thanks for the reply. Im really amazed by your accomplishment and your score. I was wondering, do you still have any of those savegames left? If so, I would love to take a look at them, I just keep struggling at freedom islands and feel I could do much better. I really appreciated your ambrosius savegame. Feels like a pre-arranged chessgame which you have to solve, I really like that :D

[Razorflame]

it's not so hard if personally feel the warrior is the easiest to play with:)
it really get A HUGE army:)

but anyway

when u start the game first priority is maxing learning too 3 then distortian magic then u can free run the rest of the nescessary skills

[Calinda]

I have only part of the saved games on this PC, the others are elsewhere, I may check if I still keep them on Monday. Anyway, the earliest game that I have here is from the Freedom Islands, pity not right from the start of them - the first island is somewhat complete - but it shows what I did have at that time. Now when I look at it - besides everything else I had pretty good children from the zombie wife :)

[Razorflame]

gats beat your score yet?

[Calinda]

Even if he did, he didn't post anything about it ... So my guess is no, he didn't.

And I went to office earlier, so noone will have to wait till Monday :) Here are a few more old saves. One from nearly the beginning of the game, second from the start of the Freedom Islands, and there are 2 games in the last one, the interesting there is that I upgraded to the Marshal's batton in-between them, and I remember that the battle for the upgrade was very challenging at that time. Very hard to win, long, satisfying and everything that a battle can be :)

[Vilk]

Day 3 on Islands... ok... but level 11! Holy cheat! :grin:

[DGDobrev]

The warrior can do a lot of things rather quickly and can have superior leadership, can complete a lot of quests quickly and efficiently. The only problem is that some versions don't have a clock, but a daytime/night, etc, and it's hard to time everything you do. I have that problem and that's the second time I waste a day from 2 to 3, while I can be on the islands at day 3 without any troubles. And I'm playing a paladin, so I'm positive it's doable with any char.

So no cheating involved there, I'm sure of it.

[Calinda]

With the +XP skill maxed and Tactics Treatise on top of it for +10% extra XP it is pretty possible ;)

[Calinda]

And to DGDobrev - yup you definitely must have a clock, so you time your travels at 6:55 AM or so. IIRC time is shown as tooltip when you mouseover the day/night thing.

[DGDobrev]

I'm trying to get it to work although I can't quite get what's wrong. When I mouseover, I still get Daytime, for example. Maybe I picked the wrong patch for this version. I used 1.7's patch that nobilis launched (and I don't use any cracks, if that's what someone's implying, the game's legit as hell), but it should work for the 1c/Katauri version without a problem, or so I read :)

EDIT: Fixed it :)

[Vilk]

The warrior can do a lot of things rather quickly and can have superior leadership, can complete a lot of quests quickly and efficiently. The only problem is that some versions don't have a clock, but a daytime/night, etc, and it's hard to time everything you do. I have that problem and that's the second time I waste a day from 2 to 3, while I can be on the islands at day 3 without any troubles. And I'm playing a paladin, so I'm positive it's doable with any char.

So no cheating involved there, I'm sure of it.
Holy cheat didn't mean cheating but a weird variation of Holy Shit. :grin:

There's already records posted in 7 days for mage and warrior I'm sure it's quite possible to do Paladin too in 7 days. Even with warrior, reach level 11 before day 3 7AM is still quite incredible.

I'd be curious to know how the mage that made it in 7 days did that first area and what level before day 3 7AM.

[Vilk]

With the +XP skill maxed and Tactics Treatise on top of it for +10% extra XP it is pretty possible ;)
Tactics Treatise isn't in my current game yet! ;) For the XP skill maxed that's Paladin skills so not so easy to increase them soon for a warrior and a mage.

There's also a set with the Tactics Treatise and Bloody Band that bring +5% XP bonus.

I haven't check with your savegame you provided but I bet that to reach level 11 even with xp bonus at some point, this requires to have done most if not all quests and fights in the first 4 area, that is incredible in a so short time, very impressive.

[jwallstone]

DGDobrev: How did you fix it? I have the same issue.

[Vilk]

...while I can be on the islands at day 3 without any troubles...
You mean you do most quests and fights of first 4 area before 7AM day 3? From reading some post it seems that going to islands before level 10/11 would be quite a challenge in Islands.

And I suspect that to reach level 10/11 even with some xp bonus at some point requires that you do most quests and fights of first 4 area. I'm currently level 6 and don't have much to do in the first four area but the Cemetery, few heroes and few tough quests like the mage challenge, the king's treasure quest, the last part of the barbarian quests, the mage tower and few other I probably forget.

[Razorflame]

well u can be level 2 and reach island :>

just speed rush the turtle
sweep the island come back to darion own back to island own and mines and own :>

[DGDobrev]

DGDobrev: How did you fix it? I have the same issue.

Try using a different patch other than nobilis and/or different download place (I tried like 5-6). I don't actually know how it happened, or which download place worked, but it did.

@Vilk

You mean you do most quests and fights of first 4 area before 7AM day 3? From reading some post it seems that going to islands before level 10/11 would be quite a challenge in Islands.

-> Yeah, absolutely, and with slim to none losses. A few battles I did skip... I hate seeing a lot of units die just like that, and I'm extremely unlucky... No magic spring spell whatsoever in the starting areas! Let's hope there will be one lying around the freedom islands, or I'll be restarting this game too. The only reason that kept me from doing that so far is that I got a few nice + leadership items, I have a lot of griffins available and Rina gave birth to a +10% XP kid. However, even with this setup I'll be going to the islands at level 9 at most (although I have lvl 3 learning). What Calinda managed to do and get to lvl 11 is amazing, and was probably a product of many battles vs. strong or overpowered enemies, because you seem to get the most XP in such battles. There are some nice places in the swamp where you can easily beat the crap out of the powerful enemies, like the 3-hex battle arenas where 2 hexes are blocked by obstacles and you can put your horseman on the free hex to block any advance.

[Zuvio]

@ Vilk, killing mobs with less than max units in your army makes them a higher difficulty and also give more xp. Maybe thats a trick we dont use and can explain higher level. My top level was level 9 barely before going to islands and that is with no tactics treatise and max level learning ASAP. I also saw in his save that he cleared out griffon islands and actually killed all mobs in Old/Abandoned Castle, two things I usually dont. Especially the castle with all the paintings give nice xp. Also, he upgraded all items he could and he stated in another thread that his tactics treatise had to be surpressed when he was almost done with the startings areas. Again more xp. And doing turtle at level 2 gives more xp than doing it at level 5. Doing turtle ASAP is best, see his thorn hunter tactic for killing turtle easy.

@ Calinda: thank you for sharing your savegames. They have proven to be very insightful. Some differences between your game and mine: you have higher leadership when you arrive on the islands making the mobs lower difficulty for you. For me all mobs are stronger. Also your skill trees are different than mine. I maxed out distortion and order magic and so I had little runes left to go to chaos. You also go for leadership reducing talents, I see those are your goal in the might and magic trees. Seeing as how I arrived on the islands and how you arrived clearly shows me I made some big errors in developing my game. The main idea is the same, my execution just left me in a much worse position. I also had less luck than you, I had no sacrifice up until the islands and I also could only buy 24 inquisitors total. I didnt have tactics treatise although I figure that one is just added bonus and not necessary.

Your highscore is still the highest, but what I found most impressive was that in your end stats you had so little losses of units. That was what puzzled me the most. Several people came close to your score, but with heavy losses and I couldnt see how you did it with so few losses. So thanks again for the insight, it was really helpful! :D

[Calinda]

Actually I even did the fights in the Old castle, including those mobs summoned by the paintings in there. These fights alone can bring you from 10 to 11, but surely are pretty hard, and some of the few loses that I had are from there.
To have less loses sometimes you have to prolong fights and take some time to resurrect your army.

[Zuvio]

Calinda, could you explain your tactic vs the turtle again? Did you use 2xtelekenisis on one thorn hunter to get him before the turtle on round 2 and then catch up with the other thorn? Im trying that strat but the turtle uses aoe before i can get a thon in front of him.

[DGDobrev]

Doing the turtle quest on level 2 is nice, but looking and calinda's save, I don't think he did that. There's quite a bunch of quests completed before lyaro island, and maybe just as right - having as much +XP items before fighting the turtle gives a rather handsome XP boost. I also saw that it takes some time to go to lyaro and back, so that quest is probably best completed at the end of day 1 so that you don't lose a day traveling.

[Calinda]

I did the turtle at 6:55 AM at day 2 so I dont lose extra time ...
Edit: Cant remember if it was exactly 6:55, only one way of the travel to the turtle rolls a day, don't remember which one, but I'm sure you got the idea.

[DGDobrev]

It's the second one, going back to Greenwort, I'm positive. So if anyone's doing the turtle, it has to be within a normal time limit of that 6:55 AM deadline.

I also noticed that you pretty much didn't change your initial troop setup. However, getting 24 horsemen is impressive. So far I didn't see more than 15 in the camp. I wonder if that has something to do with playing the paladin, since the game and the troop setup is pretty much different for the three chars.

[Calinda]

I got them via Sacrifice, I had 9-10 in the camp I think.

[Vilk]

Calinda, could you explain your tactic vs the turtle again? Did you use 2xtelekenisis on one thorn hunter to get him before the turtle on round 2 and then catch up with the other thorn? Im trying that strat but the turtle uses aoe before i can get a thon in front of him.

I can't answer for Calindra but perhaps you can use horsemen, at least one, two thorns pack:

Round 1: Horsemen move closer but still not close, the two thorns move closer, the two long range shoot. Turtle cast mass slow.
Round 2: Horsemen move close to turtle but don't attack and defend. the two thorns move closer but still aren't close to turtle, the two long range shoot, the turtle attack the horsemen but don't kill it.
Round 3: Horsemen move back, the two thorns move close to turtle and don't attack, the two long range shoot, the turtle attack one thorn.
And so on. I don't remember if Thorns act before the turtle or not, if not you'll have to sacrifice a horsemen or use some spell to support.

[Vilk]

Actually I even did the fights in the Old castle, including those mobs summoned by the paintings in there. These fights alone can bring you from 10 to 11, but surely are pretty hard, and some of the few loses that I had are from there.

Arg can't believe, I suspect those fights even tougher than those of the mage test in Alarnia, don't remember.

To have less loses sometimes you have to prolong fights and take some time to resurrect your army.
You wrote "sometimes"? Isn't it more "somehow often"? Ok not during the beginning but later at least.

[Vilk]

@ Vilk, killing mobs with less than max units in your army makes them a higher difficulty and also give more xp. Maybe thats a trick we dont use and can explain higher level....Again more xp. And doing turtle at level 2 gives more xp than doing it at level 5. Doing turtle ASAP is best, see his thorn hunter tactic for killing turtle easy.
....
I'm not sure this has much effect because warrior would have a huge XP penalty. Or is it a percentage of max stack? I'm playing a mage and I could not have always all stack at max but most or quite close to max. That's hard enough like that! :grin:

My top level was level 9 barely before going to islands and that is with no tactics treatise and max level learning ASAP.
Level 9 is already quite nice I would attempt at this level with my mage. I don't think I have the treaty in my current party alas. I learned XP bonus skill level 1 right before my mage level up to 4 (started a new game and dropped previous one) but I'm far to learn it level 2 because currently I have zero spirit rune.

[Vilk]

I did the turtle at 6:55 AM at day 2 so I dont lose extra time ...
Edit: Cant remember if it was exactly 6:55, only one way of the travel to the turtle rolls a day, don't remember which one, but I'm sure you got the idea.
Weird I checked that and didn't think to check both travels! So if I checked well that means that it's the travel the go to the island that consume no time. 5mn to do the trick?

[Vilk]

Your highscore is still the highest, but what I found most impressive was that in your end stats you had so little losses of units. That was what puzzled me the most. Several people came close to your score, but with heavy losses and I couldnt see how you did it with so few losses. So thanks again for the insight, it was really helpful! :D
Heavy loss is in fact more amazing, how the hell manage that? I saw only one record close to Calenda record, a mage in 7 days. That said this mage used quite a lot ghosts and with ghost you get loss quite often but can manage a balance to compensate it.

Still look at Calinda save make it more impressive, I regret the mage guy didn't provide some... now there's still a challenge, if 6 days isn't possible then it's without the treaty, sacrifice and gift. :-P

[DGDobrev]

The ghosts are both a boon and a curse. I personally don't like them... They like steal way too many souls for my liking and tend to go out of control :)

[Calinda]

I remember using haste on thorns and may be battle cry or smth, it was long ago ....

[Razorflame]

anyway the fable about using less troops before going into battle to get more xp isn't working

i have tested this in impossible mode with mage

first i used like

10 horseman 15 inqi 10 royal snakes 3 alchemist

and after i only used 3 horseman

in both cases i won and in both cases i got 25xp

:)

to kill the turtle is very easy without any losses

use fire dragonfly

let it use haste(get the scroll or spell last hero)

get 4 ranged units

make the firefly stand in front of turtle with defense
cast last hero on it
let i die and keep casting last hero(the turtle will always attack the firefly and your ranged units should take this one real easy without any losses:>

(USE inqi's to ressurect the fireflies)

:)

[DGDobrev]

Horsemen + Healing + Lvl 1 Order magic + lvl 1 concentration + 4 ranged units is also a clean sweep at the turtle :)

[Zuvio]

anyway the fable about using less troops before going into battle to get more xp isn't working

i have tested this in impossible mode with mage

first i used like

10 horseman 15 inqi 10 royal snakes 3 alchemist

and after i only used 3 horseman

in both cases i won and in both cases i got 25xp

:)


What was the difficulty of the mob at both times? If both times it was very weak, then indeed it makes no difference. It is not about the number of troops you have, it is about the difficulty of the opponent. I can assure you that I get more xp for a weak opponent than a very weak opponent. If dropping some of my troops makes a very weak opponent go to weak, I get more xp from killing the same mob. If it stays very weak, than there is no change in xp reward.

[Zuvio]

About sacrifice, do you save some very weak mobs in the start area to use sacrifice or just use sacrifice at the end of your next battle, be it easy or tough. I mean, do I save some very weak mobs on the map for sacrifice or do I just keep killing mobs and using sac + ress at the end?

[Calinda]

It is better if you can do the second, use sacrifice whereever you go, and obtain extra leadership from flags or whatever. Even mana potions come in handy when you deplete your mana and next battle is near. Another thing is, buy all available scrolls for sacrifice and use them as scrolls, they dont use up any mana then. For a fast run you don't want to return to any place without a serious reason, so leaving weak troops behind is not a good option.
Also a good advice is to finish battles with full rage, and as much mana as possible.

[Vilk]

It is better if you can do the second, use sacrifice whereever you go, and obtain extra leadership from flags or whatever. Even mana potions come in handy when you deplete your mana and next battle is near. Another thing is, buy all available scrolls for sacrifice and use them as scrolls, they dont use up any mana then. For a fast run you don't want to return to any place without a serious reason, so leaving weak troops behind is not a good option.
Also a good advice is to finish battles with full rage, and as much mana as possible.
Do you remember where you get sacrifice? Also do you think you could do the record if you hadn't found it soon enough?

[Vilk]

to kill the turtle is very easy without any losses

use fire dragonfly

let it use haste(get the scroll or spell last hero)

get 4 ranged units

make the firefly stand in front of turtle with defense
cast last hero on it
let i die and keep casting last hero(the turtle will always attack the firefly and your ranged units should take this one real easy without any losses:>

(USE inqi's to ressurect the fireflies)

:)
Your method is I think the more simple but I wonder why you increase its complexity.

No need of haste and no need of inquisitor for it.

You need:

A stack with one fast unit with high initiative and fast enough to reach the turtle during second round, like Dragonfly Fire or Lake, or even one Griffin or one Horseman. I'm not sure Fighter Thorn could work because turtle don't behave the same with them during second round.
Four long range stacks.
Know Last Hero spell at level 1.
Have a mana roughly at 30/35 or more and a mana regen of 2 per rounds. This depends a lot of the attack power of you range stacks.


Then during first two rounds the fast unit go close the turtle, you let it finish act during the second round and then cast Last Hero on it, the turtle will attack it and it will last two rounds. And every two turns, the unitt close to turtle defend then you cast Last Hero on it.

With a poor mage level 5, 1000 Leadership, 2 Attack, 1 Lake Dragonfly, 4 long range stacks not optimized for their power attack but at their max (Inquisitor, Priest, Archmage, Thorn Hunter), I started at mana 45 and ends at mana 23 and did only few critical.

But the beauty of this method is if you know both spell Last Hero and Magic Spring, both at level 1. Then both can last 2 rounds and you can cast them alternatively and then don't even need have learned mana regeneration.

[Vilk]

Horsemen + Healing + Lvl 1 Order magic + lvl 1 concentration + 4 ranged units is also a clean sweep at the turtle :)
With my mage Leadership 1000, impossible setting, that doesn't work, two problems, you need cast the spell each rounds and it heals most often a bit less damages than the turtle does each round.

This method will work only if you kill the turtle quite fast ie if you have powerful range stacks.

[Zuvio]

Do you remember where you get sacrifice? Also do you think you could do the record if you hadn't found it soon enough?

Spells are found random, you may find sacrifice + ressurection + hypnotize in swamp area or you may not find it anywhere in your game. Same with units. Starting out with no inquisitors means no free resses for you. Then you have to revert to zerg tactics and other, reducing your score because you have to go back for troops more often. Calinda's score is so high in part because of his/her luck with found spells (sacrifice) and items (tactics treatise, 2xdragon slayer sword), but still mostly because he/she just knows the game the best. Not having sacrifice and inquisitors in the starting areas probably would hurt the score though.

[Calinda]

Heheh, good try to ask me if I remember where I found a spell in a game which I played 8-9 months ago :) And of course to get a good highscore you certainly need a better start than the average.

[Vilk]

I remember using haste on thorns and may be battle cry or smth, it was long ago ....
I tried apply this method but it is a bit complicate to apply:

The first point I quote is that Hunter Thorn don't have an initiative high enough so to save a cast of Battle Cry it's better start with two stacks with each one Fighter Thorn (Shift Click to split the stack). The alternate is use spells like haste, teleportation or Archmage talent of teleportation with a hunter thorn.
The second point I quote is that at turn 2 a unit need to be close to the turtle head or it won't work and the turtle do its area attack anyway. That point is certainly true for any method and strangely at turn 3 this isn't required anymore.
The third point is if you spawn a Hunter thorn it won't be fast enough to spawn before to be killed so you have to cast a Battle Cry, spell level 1 is enough.


That's definitely the solution that cost the less mana with no bad luck and if you don't know magic spring. Battle Cry costs 2 and you have 50% chance to not be able to cast it because you spawn a Fighter Thorn. When Last Hero level 1 cost 5 mana and you need cast it 50% of the rounds. Heal level 1 won't work in impossible mode except if your 5 range stacks kill quickly the turtle, Heal level 2 costs 2 mana but need to be casted 100% of the rounds.

But that solution requires 2 stacks so have only 3 long range stacks to do the kill when with the last hero method you can use 4 long range stacks to do the kill.

With Magic Spring, the best is to use the Last Hero method, without Magic Spring this Battle Cry solution worth the try particularely if your stacks are stronger and the battle not too long. In both cases, Concentration level 1 helps a lot and all characters should have it at this point.

[Vilk]

Heheh, good try to ask me if I remember where I found a spell in a game which I played 8-9 months ago :) And of course to get a good highscore you certainly need a better start than the average.
Lol ok I hadn't realize it was so long ago, posts seem not that long ago but I certainly didn't quote well the dates. :grin:

I was wondering if Sacrifice was a quest reward of one rude quest or not, probably not.

[Zuvio]

Very few things are fixed in this game. The biggest charm of KB:TL is that you can start a new game, check all available troops and items in start areas and then come up with a strategy depending on what is available to you. This allows for a great replay value. The downside of course is that if you want to go for high score, you might get unlucky. If score means nothing to you, you can clear the game on impossible on many different ways and not feeling like you're playing the same game twice.

[Vilk]

Very few things are fixed in this game. The biggest charm of KB:TL is that you can start a new game, check all available troops and items in start areas and then come up with a strategy depending on what is available to you. This allows for a great replay value. The downside of course is that if you want to go for high score, you might get unlucky. If score means nothing to you, you can clear the game on impossible on many different ways and not feeling like you're playing the same game twice.
The score thing spoils a bit this approach and charm, until I get focused on score approach I was looking this random in a good way, not that much now. :grin:

This is mainly a problem of balance with some points that are too important. But also the time base reduce a lot the possibilities. But no idea on what else the score could be based. Clearly the time in battle could be count too. Or if not time based I don't see. Dead units reduce too much options.

The check you mention isn't that simple because you have to really play the game to know what you'll get. Check Calinda save and for example you won't find Sacrifice, it was eventually a battle chest drop. I made 20/25 tries like you suggest and found only 3 times Gift, only 3 times Sacrifice and never both at same time for a superficial check like that.

[Vilk]

Spells are found random, you may find sacrifice + ressurection + hypnotize in swamp area or you may not find it anywhere in your game. Same with units. Starting out with no inquisitors means no free resses for you. Then you have to revert to zerg tactics and other, reducing your score because you have to go back for troops more often. Calinda's score is so high in part because of his/her luck with found spells (sacrifice) and items (tactics treatise, 2xdragon slayer sword), but still mostly because he/she just knows the game the best. Not having sacrifice and inquisitors in the starting areas probably would hurt the score though.
It's a bit extreme to say he knows the game the best because it did the best high score. But he certainly know it a lot better than most that is sure. :grin:

It's not obvious that there's so many requirements to do this score:

It's very very rare to not have any inquisitors, is this ever happen in first 4 area? Also you don't need them during character low levels.
For Treatise well reading Calinda comments it's perhaps one of the rare items required but starting the isles level 10, well I suspect this would not change the final score for players like him. Ok it doesn't only mean start isles level 10 but to do stuff with one level less at some points of the game until the islands or later in the game.
Resurrect is certainly not required just a good plus.
I wonder if Gift isn't required too and when, clearly you don't need it until fights get stronger.
I doubt any other items are required.

But yes, a lot of tactical knowledge is a requirement, as is certainly a lot of patience and dedication.

And yes sacrifice to save walking time is perhaps also a requirement to do the same high score. Inquisitor are clearly required later in the game. I had in mind Gift was more important to have asap in the game but now I realize that Sacrifice could be more important as you'll get enough inquisitors during first part of the game. But with a warrior this is more true because Inquisitor stack will be bigger than for a mage.

[Zuvio]

It's a bit extreme to say he knows the game the best because it did the best high score. But he certainly know it a lot better than most that is sure. :grin:


Well, he planned out his entire playthrough from start to finish to see the best and fastest route. Also, seeing as he posted a savegame vs ambrosius where he afterwards explained how he did it, it shows he has deep knowledge of how this game works.

[Razorflame]

What was the difficulty of the mob at both times? If both times it was very weak, then indeed it makes no difference. It is not about the number of troops you have, it is about the difficulty of the opponent. I can assure you that I get more xp for a weak opponent than a very weak opponent. If dropping some of my troops makes a very weak opponent go to weak, I get more xp from killing the same mob. If it stays very weak, than there is no change in xp reward.

he went from very weak to slighty stronger i believe

[Razorflame]

Your method is I think the more simple but I wonder why you increase its complexity.

No need of haste and no need of inquisitor for it.

You need:

A stack with one fast unit with high initiative and fast enough to reach the turtle during second round, like Dragonfly Fire or Lake, or even one Griffin or one Horseman. I'm not sure Fighter Thorn could work because turtle don't behave the same with them during second round.
Four long range stacks.
Know Last Hero spell at level 1.
Have a mana roughly at 30/35 or more and a mana regen of 2 per rounds. This depends a lot of the attack power of you range stacks.


Then during first two rounds the fast unit go close the turtle, you let it finish act during the second round and then cast Last Hero on it, the turtle will attack it and it will last two rounds. And every two turns, the unitt close to turtle defend then you cast Last Hero on it.

With a poor mage level 5, 1000 Leadership, 2 Attack, 1 Lake Dragonfly, 4 long range stacks not optimized for their power attack but at their max (Inquisitor, Priest, Archmage, Thorn Hunter), I started at mana 45 and ends at mana 23 and did only few critical.

But the beauty of this method is if you know both spell Last Hero and Magic Spring, both at level 1. Then both can last 2 rounds and you can cast them alternatively and then don't even need have learned mana regeneration.


first of all it's not complicated :) the firedragonfly with haste is in the first round next to the turtle why my other units can shoot

finished the turtle with this setup yesterday

14 bowman
8 inqi's
4 archimages
101 thorn hunters
and 10 firedragonfly (since inqi could only resu 10 back :P)

i used last hero in first round on fire fly
let it wait so u have extra usage of the last hero spell

my mage was level 3 (stupid i got a level up before i got there wanted to finish the turtle on level 2 ;)

but alas :> only got 550XP for the turtle :(

[Razorflame]

u won't get more XP when killings mobs with less units

did this with mage AGAIN TESTED level 4

first i used

13 inqi
5 shaman
5 alchemist
6 arcimage

killing 23 mauraders and 28 robbers(very weak)
got 33 xp

so next match i only used 13 inqi(they were match than)
gpt 33XP

lastly i got 1 inqi vs that(invicible) ofcourse they were not xD( but got 33 XP AGAIN

so in all cases THE XP was FIXED

so please stop lying about getting more xp for using less units

this isn't good for the newbs who don't know shit about this game
xD

[Vilk]

Well, he planned out his entire playthrough from start to finish to see the best and fastest route. Also, seeing as he posted a savegame vs ambrosius where he afterwards explained how he did it, it shows he has deep knowledge of how this game works.
You didn't understand, That's clear that he rules and knows quite better the game than you and me.

I only wrote that he isn't necessary the best in this game knowledge.

For example I read some of his quotes about mage and he seems had some doubt about a mage doing it in 7 days but someone posted a mage score in 7 days with one quest less but still. Too bad the mage guys didn't post more as he played quite differently the game than Calinda does.

[Vilk]

my mage was level 3 (stupid i got a level up before i got there wanted to finish the turtle on level 2 ;)...
Yes your tactic against the turtle is quite nice but level 3 day 2 before 7AM? That's not a lot, I did level 5 with a mage and probably level 6 is a better goal if possible. My new current mage level up so fast that I have huge money problems. I don't think I'll increase it to level 6 before day 2 7AM, but quite above level 5 unlike my previous attempt.

[Vilk]

he went from very weak to slighty stronger i believe
And you quote no xp difference? I should check it but my current mage seems confirm the "legend" I have huge money problem since the beginning and for example currently use a Horsemen stack of 1 instead of 4, Archer of 2 instead of 15, and since beginning I have problem to fill stack (despite only 3 dead, 3 Archers) because of money (or for horsemen because that bores me to go lure again at the knight camp). And this mage seems levelup faster, well "seems" is the point. :grin:

[Razorflame]

try again :) i posted already another xp thread about it :)

and vilk i kept my mage level low as possible :)

i can be level 7 i think before day 2 :>

but by doing in this way i have way more leadership +500 for killing turtle so in day 3 i should be able to steamroll darion ^^

[DGDobrev]

And you quote no xp difference? I should check it but my current mage seems confirm the "legend" I have huge money problem since the beginning and for example currently use a Horsemen stack of 1 instead of 4, Archer of 2 instead of 15, and since beginning I have problem to fill stack (despite only 3 dead, 3 Archers) because of money (or for horsemen because that bores me to go lure again at the knight camp). And this mage seems levelup faster, well "seems" is the point. :grin:

Monetary problems in the beginning are easily alleviated if you scour a few areas for cash that can be easily stolen :) If you play on impossible, the mage levels up just like everyone else, or so the XP chart says. So you should be the same level - 10-11 when you get to the freedom islands. I just did it at lvl 10, which is the best achievement I have so far. I should have done better though... I got greedy seeing that +1 attack at lvl 2 and didn't take the leadership upgrade, which was a serious mistake as I see now. That paladin would've been even better now. I may try restarting at the starting save I guess...

[Vilk]

try again :) i posted already another xp thread about it :)

and vilk i kept my mage level low as possible :)

i can be level 7 i think before day 2 :>

but by doing in this way i have way more leadership +500 for killing turtle so in day 3 i should be able to steamroll darion ^^
Wooo leadership is get from beating boss? I wonder of what I was dreaming of to never have quote that before. :o

[Vilk]

Monetary problems in the beginning are easily alleviated if you scour a few areas for cash that can be easily stolen :) If you play on impossible, the mage levels up just like everyone else, or so the XP chart says. So you should be the same level - 10-11 when you get to the freedom islands. I just did it at lvl 10, which is the best achievement I have so far. I should have done better though... I got greedy seeing that +1 attack at lvl 2 and didn't take the leadership upgrade, which was a serious mistake as I see now. That paladin would've been even better now. I may try restarting at the starting save I guess...

Level 10 is cool I'm not sure I'll do it in my current mage game. I'd be a little bellow level 5.5 before the turtle. But my current game is a terrible error, I tested superficial stuff of first area and select this game because it has Sacrifice, except that this spell is totally useless for a mage and that soon without Hypnotize, or Gift, or perhaps Resurrect. My stack are too low to ensure a good resurrect from inqui. Lol, I had play it and face it to realize it but numbers are obvious.

[Razorflame]

Wooo leadership is get from beating boss? I wonder of what I was dreaming of to never have quote that before. :o

it isn't because you defeat a boss
it's because u become a baron

viscount>baron=+500 leadership

if u get the treaty from the dwarves
u get from baron>lord IIRC( dunno exactly how much leadership u get but maybe someone else can post it)

[Razorflame]

Level 10 is cool I'm not sure I'll do it in my current mage game. I'd be a little bellow level 5.5 before the turtle. But my current game is a terrible error, I tested superficial stuff of first area and select this game because it has Sacrifice, except that this spell is totally useless for a mage and that soon without Hypnotize, or Gift, or perhaps Resurrect. My stack are too low to ensure a good resurrect from inqui. Lol, I had play it and face it to realize it but numbers are obvious.

why would that be a problem?
u get +500 from killing turtle that should mean 1-2 extra level 4 units

and most likely the banners throughout darion should also make up for a 250+ leadership

and cash problems?

do the quest from the dwarf/fishing tackles/priest/garden infestation

u get free cash and xp(all involves no fighting :)

[DGDobrev]

I like doing the quests in the old castle (headless skeleton and the chest). It is dodgy, you may have to save/load a bunch of times till you get it right without dying, but the XP reward is the best there. Kicks you a level and something up just like that, maybe even 2 levels.

And since velarion forest has some nice chests and runes you can easily steal, that's my preferred start of the game. Always :)

[Razorflame]

that depends on class rather than having a good start

for a mage i would just use the last hero strat on turtle at level 2 then steamroll darion

but for pala or warrior your option might be better since warrior or paladin won't have enough mana too substain the turtle with last hero

[DGDobrev]

Exactly my point :) It is very important from refraining to make serious generalizations, because the three chars have different play styles. I know your strategy is just terrific, but it's applicable with a mage, since you can easily get concentration to a decent level and compensate for the -5 mana per 1-2 turns. The other classes can't do that so easily. I personally get concentration at lvl 6-7, depending on whether I can get that many magic runes available. That's why I like using healing + priests + horsemen to compensate for the lack of mana regen in combat.

[Razorflame]

they can i just tested this :)

a warrior and paladin have higher leadership at start and thus have more units in their stacks which easily compensates the mana cost

a mage needs like 35/40 mana(WITHOUT concentration) and maybe 1-2 scrolls of last hero but that shouldn't be too hard to find..

however a warrior can do this with 30/35 mana with 1 scroll

keep in mind that a warrior got way more units

and thus would do more damage to a turtle

with my mage i did like 200 damage a turn(rougly based)

around 40~80 from archimage
20~50 inqi
20~50 bowman
50~96 from thorn hunter


but all units were below 10 except for thorn and bowman i think
bowman 14
thorn hunters 102

(i picked up all leaderships flags before going into the turtle island :>

[Vilk]

for a mage i would just use the last hero strat on turtle at level 2 then steamroll darion

I got money problem in that game only, and that was quite before the turtle ie quite before 7AM day 2. Later and before the turtle I could fill stacks if I want.

Roughly for a mage my current best rough route for the beginning is, before Day 2 6AM ie before taking care of the turtle:

All Greenwort but 3 stacks close to Rogues dean and stuff on sea.
Then half part of Verlon and take care to conclude quests started in Greenwort and start all possible quests and finish those possible.
Then sea part of Greenwort but not always ships but always to get access to Rogues dean from sea and continue the paused quest of zombie.
Then Arlania except the mage tower, the underground, (often) one hero, the sea stuff including Griffins. Take care start or finish quests here.
Then the swamp (not the cemetery) to erase fully except if there's a hero too strong so soon.
Then at 6AM rush to prepare and do the turtle.


Currently my path isn't enough optimized so I always need rush to the turtle before to have finish the swamps.

After the turtle it's still unorganized. Also I don't quote the details but it's a little complicate to organize all walks.

[Razorflame]

why do you fight battles before battling turtle?

that is a riddle for me
i just clean sweep the area's and do the quest to get rage box(then turtle)

so after the battle with turtle i get enough leadership to steamroll all
and use my ragebox on every battle with maximised efficiency
:>
money is never a problem ^^
i hardly lose troops
last hero can work wonders ^^

[DGDobrev]

they can i just tested this :)

a warrior and paladin have higher leadership at start and thus have more units in their stacks which easily compensates the mana cost

a mage needs like 35/40 mana(WITHOUT concentration) and maybe 1-2 scrolls of last hero but that shouldn't be too hard to find..

however a warrior can do this with 30/35 mana with 1 scroll

keep in mind that a warrior got way more units

and thus would do more damage to a turtle

with my mage i did like 200 damage a turn(rougly based)

around 40~80 from archimage
20~50 inqi
20~50 bowman
50~96 from thorn hunter


but all units were below 10 except for thorn and bowman i think
bowman 14
thorn hunters 102

(i picked up all leaderships flags before going into the turtle island :>

The pala and the warrior may do more damage, but the general idea is that you need to drop down the turtle from 4000 HP to 0 without losses. Besides, on lower levels, the leadership difference for a mage vs. warrior isn't that decisive, since it's from 40 to 120 (levels 2-6). And keeping in mind that a horseman takes like 50-65 damage from a regular hit with a shield from the archmage, you need last hero every 2-3 turns (provided you have lvl 3 last hero), and any other unit should have quite a bunch of HP to survive a hit without you needing to recast last hero every turn. If you can drop 4000 HP in 12 turns (that's 20 mana or 15+scroll), it's doable.

On impossible the warrior has 10 mana at start, the paladin has 15 and the mage 20. So you need 25 mana for a warrior till you get to the turtle and 20 for the paladin. That's not easy to do without an artifact or selecting mana upgrades. You may get lucky with enough +4 mana objects in the starting areas, but that's doubtful :)

Also if you're playing on impossible, the more leadership you have, the better, so you may want to start picking up the leadership upgrades from lvl 2. That would leave few picks for mana upgrades, provided you get them.

[Razorflame]

well problem wasn't to get no losses anyway
killing turtle ASAP is easy :>
even possible on level 1 ^^

last herO>turtle :>

[DGDobrev]

I see. Well, ok :) I misunderstood then.

[Vilk]

Well if a mage or warrior has both spells, Last Hero and Magic Spring they don't need much mana to do it, 20 is probably enough. After the unit like dragonfly close to turtle has pass its round, you cast last hero, next turn magic spring, next turn last hero and so on, no need of mana regeneration and infinite time to do it.

Is it random of it's a fixed reward but last times I played the turtle I always get 2 scrolls, last hero and magic spring. Probably not a hazard.

Without mana regeneration and without Magic Spring It's not obvious at all that a low level warrior or wizard can do it. That's complicate but the Calinda method is then probably a best guess even if it has a random part.

[Razorflame]

i can easily rape the turtle with a level 1 mage

haven't tested with a warrior or pala but should be doable as well

and i hardly use magic spring :> such a waste of time :>
but then again it would be easier for the next battles
i only make sure my rage box is filled and i can cast evil shoal to kill alot of units :>

[Vilk]

...I just did it at lvl 10, which is the best achievement I have so far.
I just achieved level 9.5 (in fact a bit less) and has 3 hours before do any of the rude fights ie magic test, mage tower gremlins, some item gremlins, the whole abandoned castle, one level 12 hero, the undead castle, perhaps one undead hero. I also gave up killing neutral Griffins that's too nasty!

I also didn't get any xp bonus. But the bad point is that my mage has only that sucking Sacrifice spell and I feel stuck. I also had only 6 Horsemen so had switch to something else. Next time I'll select a game with Gift spell, it's much more useful at this point of the game. And I give up try selecting a game with both Gift and Sacrifice during first parts of the game, it's too rare from a superficial check.

My path is still a bit stupid at some points so I lost some time. Also the switch from Horsemen to something else has been quite a garbage and was certainly a significant lost of time. I also get some money problem but quick children help a lot.

[DGDobrev]

Without ress, you can try doing the initial tests and save after each one till the game gives you some Knights in the horsemen camp. Knights actually make pretty decent tanks provided you have some tactics at hand. Actually the knights got me through the islands and creiston mines till I found some Giants there.

Things may be different for a mage though... I doubt a mage can afford tactics by lvl 10, because you meed order/distortion/chaos magic and they require some serious rune investment. No problem for a warrior or a paladin though.

In any case, it's very important to ensure a good start of the game with as many things as possible in the starting areas :)

[Vilk]

Well my mage had already Higher Magic level 1, in fact since level 6/7 :grin: and know all school level 1 plus some other stuff, in fact only mage skills but a warrior skill to get more rage. At the end of first parts he also had two reserve slots. At beginning of Islands there was many packs that are even or slightly stronger. With Gift I could continue quite long without to lost too much time.

But well I drop it for now because I need more than Sacrifice or at least it's how I feel it now if I want do a good time record. But he would be a nice tactic training to continue play it anyway.

But I choose start a new with Gift in first areas.

[Razorflame]

that's al whining imho:)

see the thread of last hero without resu/sacri/gift

last hero is your best option then
best thing is u can combine this spell with target
last+hero +target is a very nice combo:)
try a royal snake(i think last hero counts for level 3 so snake is level 3)
it has decent HP and very fast initive and no retalation which makes this unit perfect for the job

and try to keep up the life with an archmage shield:)
and most melee enemy stacks would fail for the bite and u can take an easy vicotry:)

[DGDobrev]

Noone's whining here :) We're discussing a possibility to start a better game. It's all about the individual person's preference how to start a game - as more of a challenge or with better options.

Besides, you should keep in mind that royal snakes may not be so easily accessible. For example, in my game with the paladin now, I got only 1 place with royal snakes (the witch in the cave in arlania), only 1 place with royal thorns (lighthouse in ellinia) and only 1 place with hunters (a sorcerer's tower in demonis), for example. You never know what the game has in store for you, and basing your entire strategy on one unit isn't a good idea.

Sometimes the game can have a pretty poor setup :)

[Razorflame]

i know but i meant that you don't need the casual stuff already posted on these forums like the FAMOUS

magic spring trick with sacri/resu

there are others ways not to lose ANY unit

and the last hero trick works best on terrain where only 1 hex can get u to the other half

in that case it's easy and free win :)