lvl 11 Paladin: Which units?

[eXeel]

I try to be a paladin mage, focus on that. I love ranged, but need a few melee too.
At the moment I have:


30 Evil Beholders, those from the Swamp. Great for dpsing and wasting an enemy stack's turn.
29 Mages. Those who can make shield, double damage and move a stack one cell. Great dps.
1200 peasants. Great dps, though slow. Easy to get. Cheap. Did I mention great dps?!
55 Inquisitors. Hard to get, can't by them anywhere, so I need 3 mind runes to get the talent, so I can turn priests into these. Then I'm set! Great dps and love the ress.
57 swordsman, or what the improved version is called. Not the footmen/swordsmen you get at first, but the ones after. I can't get them anywhere anymore, though! So in trouble with these.


I am happy about the first 4, the swordsman I would like to replace. But can't get enough Knights, and the Horsemen are too few too. And 4 ranged might be overkill. What do you suggest? Needs to be easy to get to and plenty of them! And then they need to do good dps or at least take a beating and have nice skills.

I'm on the Eastern and Western islands, trying to find my way into the mines and the hiding of that fellow, to continue the story.
Thanks :)

[Stardust]

First one that comes to my mind is Shaman, definitely and excellent unit in both range and close combat (totems rock!). You can get them in the Orc castle near where you first arrive at Freedom Isle however you have to beat a pretty tough army before you can recruit Shaman (they are heavily melee based so your current army might suffer some casualties).
If for some reason you don't like Shaman try Sea Dog or Devilfish, there should be plenty of supplies for them in the area. Sea Dogs are decent melee for their LDR and the ability to attack multiple units. Devilfish will need a bless from your Inquisitor and they will swallow anything blocking their path (and great initiative/speed too).

Good luck.

[Zonc]

You have Tolerance (or get one) so buy Vampires (from swamp, undead dwarf, Death Land or anwhere else) and you'll never loose single one.
Also, Archimages have shitty leadership/damage ratio so replace them ASAP (sea dogs are always good choice)

[megajon]

without knowing what you have available to you, it's kinda hard to make a suggestion like this.

I think your melee units are your weak link..

I say peasants -> (royal snakes/griffins)
and swordsmen -> (griffins/polar bears) or (dwarven canoneers/alchemists) if ya wanna beef your ranged more.


I disagree with losing mages this early myself... thier shock ability is so good at tripping up the fast moving big stacks early... I would only replace them once you have blind or a high lvl slow spell.

[megajon]

If you have made it to the Orcish embassy tho, definately pick up shaman, they are so very strong at this stage of the game.

[eXeel]

I hired 30 Shaman instead of the Guardsmen, which they were called. They have great hp and I like them as of yet.
The peasants I can try to upgrade to Griffins, when I finish the quest for the Griff kilt. Can't buy them while doing that, weirdly enough. But I really love how much dps the peasants can do. Yes, they die quickly when all focus is on them from a strong enemy, but what doesn't? Easily replaceable... But can try to check dps vs griffins or snakes and see.

[megajon]

the problem with peasants is, they have no mobility, initiative, or abilities that make for a good striker. I definately recomend snakes over them... the no retaliation coupled with high initiative make them an excellent defensively minded offinsive unit.

you can often times, wait, then double attack a unit that walks into range before that unit will get a single action... if it aint already wiped out... all of this while never recieving any retalitory swings.

[Dabrinko]

Peasants... good for a time, but Griffins is actually more survivable and the DPS shines through when you have unlimited retaliations. (and very high HP/leadership)

[eXeel]

So what is it, Griffins or Royal Snakes? :) Griffins more mobile but defensive (unl. ret.) and Snakes more of a offensive unit (no enemy ret.)?

What would you get with my current lineup of Shaman, Inquisitors, Arch Mages and Evil Beholders?

[jwallstone]

Personally, that's a tough choice. They are both great units. RS are better at damage dealing, but Griffins have higher hit points than leadership, one of the few units to have that. Griffins are one tough cookie overall. Both have 10% physical resistance, while snakes have 80% poison and griffins have 20% magical, and both are useful, but magic attacks are more common.

I loved and used royal snakes all though the Western and Eastern Islands. They worked great for taking down enemies in these areas, where it was a lot easier to control the battles and take no losses. Once I got to Kordar (Creiston mines onward) I started experimenting with Griffins. The enemy stacks started getting much more dangerous, in the sense that there were many more ranged units or units with special abilities that I wanted to neutralize right away. Griffins are much better for this task, as the increased mobility and ability to split stacks really helps. Royal Snakes simply can't reach the enemies fast enough, unless I use phantom, but that uses up my spell use for the turn (I'm a warrior). I can throw Griffins into the midst of enemies, combined with magic shield from the archmages, bless from the inquisitors to really increase their damage (they have a big range, 5-10), and the unlimited retaliations means that they really dish out same major damage. Resurrect at the end (or time back when you have it) and you can get no losses. Shamans' totems and Lina's Ice ball are also great distractions to take some of the heat off the Griffins.

So in summary, in Kordar, I'm finding greater need to take the fight to the enemy in battle, rather than strategically waiting to engage melee units in the middle or on my side of the battle map. For this role, Griffins are better. But Royal Snakes are probably better in the Isles of Freedom, where there seem to be more large stacks of simple melee units (pirates, devilfish, etc), and Royal Snakes can really take down these types.

[Koki]

What would you get with my current lineup of Shaman, Inquisitors, Arch Mages and Evil Beholders?

Snakes. Your army is very range-oriented, and combined with Spirit and the fact that you're focusing on spells should mean you can take out all ranged enemy units, or at least most of them, in the first turn. That only leaves melee units, and there's no point in rushing towards enemy melee units, just bombard them as they go and use Royal Snakes to finish whoever reaches your line. Lunge, no retaliation, better damage, very high initiative meaning you will be able to attack "twice"(Once at the end of one turn and then immediately at the beginning of another), what's not to love?

[Zonc]

Why choose between two great troops, when you can have both of them?
Throw away something less useful

[eXeel]

Great, constructive, well-argumented posts. Thank you all :)
I agree with the fact that most ranged are dead fast, due to magic and ranged units of mine.

If I replace TWO units, both Peasants and Archmages, I will lose 33% of my ranged, almost. And be left with 3 melee. Isn't there a better ranged that can replace Arch Mages instead? Something with enough to recruit. Don't care about the price!
Or should I keep the mages?

[Ryastar]

Dwarven cannoneers kick @$$ both at a distance, and up close (they have no melee penalty) and they have an activated ability called salvo, which does three times normal damage, but you probably won't find any until you get to the dwarven lands (don't worry, that's the next area you get to go to). They are probably the best substitution for arch-magi you'll find any time soon.

I also second all the recommendations for royal snakes.

[Metathron]

I don't know why, I just can't force myself to love the griffins as most folks here do. They are pretty "meh" to me.

[jwallstone]

Griffins are amazingly tough and versatile troops. Even a phantomed stack (about 25% of the original for me) thrown into the midst of enemies survives the whole battle almost all the time. And they do great damage all around from retaliations while soaking up all the damage.

And how about this for an awesome trick with griffins: Split the stack, send the second one right to the enemy. Let them take all the heat for the first turn, and weaken the enemy with retaliations. It doesn't matter even if the second stack gets wiped out. Next turn, send in the original stack for even more melee fun. Then at the end of the second turn (wait with a different high initiative troop), cast time back on the original stack of griffins for a completely, 100% restored stack, including the ones that were split off. For example, you have 100 griffins. Split it, you have two stacks of 50. Send one in, even if it gets killed, time back on the original and you have 100 again. It's essentially a phantom that doesn't cost mana or use up a spell, great for a warrior like me. You just have to be careful that the sum of both stacks doesn't exceed your leadership level.

You can also use this to rapidly gain griffins without sacrifice. i.e, if you can support 100 with your leadership, but only have 66, split it and use time back to get stacks of 66 and 33, or 99 griffins in total.

[maltz]

For higher difficulties the focus shifts to troop conservation. You can't lose 10% of your army from every fight since money is tight. The best units are therefore the ones that win fights without loss:

(1) Inquisitors. Obvious choice - they can resurrect. For paladin they come with unlimited quantity (if you prioritize the inquisition skill - I got it around lv 10). Owns undead.

(2) Royal snakes. Obvious choice - no retaliation.

The others choices totally depend on what's offered in the game. Here are my favorites (if they are available):


- Royal thorns + blackthorn crown + sacrifice.

The crown provides 100% damage to thorns - awesome. The point of the royal thorn is not about their ranged power, but about the low-level thorns they summon. The low level thorns have acceptable initiatives and can take retaliations for your "real" units. Even better, the enemy shooters love to target these summoned thorns (or you just cast target on them!). Use sacrifice to grow the stack.

- Sprites, Lake Fairies, Dryads + Anga's ruby + sacrifice

If you are a mage you have access to Sprites at the beginning. The ruby (artifact ring) is a quest reward and it makes the ladies a lot sexier. Due to their low level they are subject to fear, sleep, and massive bleeding.

- Evil beholder

Hypnotize is very useful to dodge ranged attack in turn 1, and they can effectively stop an advancing huge low-level stack by putting them to sleep.

- Griffins

Griffins tend to take heavy losses and has to be protected by defensive buffs (un-upgraded Glot's armor is the best defensive buff) and brought back by the inquisitors before the end. This is OK if you don't have any other melee units that needs to be resurrected.

- Canoneers

On higher difficulties these guys start to lose their appeal - even their signature 3X attack is not enough to bring down a shooter stack, plus afterwards their performance drop to less than mediocre. Use them only if you have good dwarf artifacts to afford a larger stack and better performance.

I find the ideal setup for troop conservation is 1 melee + 4 ranged. The melee is only used when the enemy reaches your doorstep. No-retaliation units are "ranged" units if they have high initiatives and speeds, so they can act twice in a row and quickly finish off an enemy stack without getting attacked (or rush out of the harms way). For tougher fights (Necro capital, Baal) you can ditch ALLr anged units and go for heavy melees that have a horde to be hired somewhere - these guys more durable and you don't care about loss anyway.)

The above setup is good till almost end game. Then you should replace the less useful units with:

(1) Emerald dragon - massive mana recharge - suddenly you can resurrect everything back (if you get the spell)!

(2) Elven archers (and hunters) - very good if you pick up the Telescope artifact somewhere.

(3) Horsemen - esp. good if you are a warrior (reduced leadership cost).