Naked challenge

[impy]

Gentlemen, ladies, aliens
(in order of size of playerbase)

Two games I was looking forward to playing in 2012 - new KB: Wotn and Diablo 3. Well, both games were rushed and left a lot to be desired. Let's hope for some decent patches. So once again I dusted off a (digital:grin:) copy of Crossworlds, and asked myself a question : Can you finish the game with completely "naked" character? And yet another challenge was born..
1) No kiting - guardians have to be defeated before continent scrolls are claimed
2) No pet dragon - pet dragon is not used at all and stays at level 1 until end of the game
3) No equipment - no items can be equipped on your character
4) No skills - your hero cannot learn any skill. The only exception is giving Scouting 1 to your warrior hero, so you can see & plan things without affecting difficulty.
5) No companion - yep, no one there to listen to your cuss words
6) And for those fearless masochists - No loss.

Note : casting spells from scrolls is allowed.

Basically just utilize all KB knowledge you have and get out there and do it. I am not sure if no loss is possible at this point, I have so far completed approx. 1/3 of the game. Boy is it tough! If you've thought some strategies are overpowered, then under these circumstances they are not, believe me. It brings me back to my first days with KB series, when I was just going around islands looking for something to kill actually. Fights might take a bit longer than usual, 20-30 turns depending on your strategy. Now rules of this challenge are not set in stone, you can change them to suit you, for example I noticed that this challenge without going for no-loss condition can be quite pleasurable for advanced player, but be careful with money. I'll write later on some hints&tips (which are probably all known by now anyway), so for now at least some screenshots

[Fatt_Shade]

OK question :
If you dont use rage/mana/runes/items why do you even play this game ?

[impy]

I suppose you've noticed yourself that as get more experienced with KB, less and less army, spells etc. you need to succeed. I just wanted to push it to the limit once and see if one can do it completely "naked". It is not a standard gameplay, just a way to entertain myself after putting hundreds of hours into KB. I believe there are still plenty of tactical elements - battlefield structure, units special skills, iniative etc to make it worthwhile. If new strategies get discovered I gladly share them.

here is a few good old standard tips:
- group of paladins with 4 x 1 archmage can defeat most of the debir. prolong fights to ten rounds and maximize magic shield usage. you can gain 300+ hits on guardian angel medal right there.
- engineers are fabulous unit for first few islands. sturdy summoner with blinding spell. Since on first few islands there aren't many high level enemies use their blind with maximum effect by cleverly positioning your stacks at the front.
- use battlefield to your advantage. You can drag difficult enemies around a bit to get favorable battlefield conditions - usually naturally occuring bottlenecks which will slow enemy down.
- runemages can sheep enemies easily, since you will have 20 magic runes quite soon. sometimes use more stacks of runemages to make a mockery of enemy army. It is not always size, but type of units involved. Both beholders are excellent for dealing with low level enemies.
- use cheap and cheerful spells to divert enemy fire, use Spells like nature call, book of evil. Fear is tremendous spell if you have higher quantities, you can base the whole battle around it. I also used Fit of energy in difficult fights on runemages. all can be found from very beginning.
- use royal thorn overpowering tactics. Summon thorns and hold them back for a bit cause they die easily. With your other units quickly kill some weak stack preferably plenty of low level enemy. Summon extra thorns. work on another weaker enemy stack. Once you got few thorn summons out, bigger part of middle of the battlefield will be occupied by skirmish. Retreat with your main army back, regroup, heal, shoot etc.
- Generally, slower the enemy melee stack, less attention it requires. try to outmaneuver them while you deal with more dangerous stacks and leave them to the end. I never pick battlefield treasure unless battle is decided, since chests represent obstacle and sometimes distracion for enemy (unless enemy has robbers:-) )

few desperate tips:
- start new game, collect free Scarlet & Bolo scrolls. Go to scarlet and collect free 1-2 scrolls. You need Call of colossus scroll for either black dragon or troll.....chickeeen
- start new game and check Bolo if there is free Rusty scroll outside Erica tent. This way you can do juicy free quests - Rohaty, Pirate Captain, Smuggler and collect emerald dragon very early.

[Fatt_Shade]

I know impy you did some interesting/crazy runs with KB, but this one seems to limited :-( No skills, items, rage, spells ... what`s left from plenty of interesting things in this games?
No much adrenaline (rage control, onslaught, adrenaline skills), so whole orc race is out of game :-(

- group of paladins with 4 x 1 archmage can defeat most of the debir. prolong fights to ten rounds and maximize magic shield usage. you can gain 300+ hits on guardian angel medal right there.
You said no kiting, so how did you get paladins and 4 archmages on Debir ?

- engineers are fabulous unit for first few islands. sturdy summoner with blinding spell. Since on first few islands there aren't many high level enemies use their blind with maximum effect by cleverly positioning your stacks at the front.
Also available on Bolo, so need to clear Debir map guardians before it.

- runemages can sheep enemies easily, since you will have 20 magic runes quite soon. sometimes use more stacks of runemages to make a mockery of enemy army. It is not always size, but type of units involved. Both beholders are excellent for dealing with low level enemies.
We`ll wait a bit before having enough lds for rune mages split into stacks for mass sheep enemy army.

- use royal thorn overpowering tactics. Summon thorns and hold them back for a bit cause they die easily. With your other units quickly kill some weak stack preferably plenty of low level enemy. Summon extra thorns. work on another weaker enemy stack. Once you got few thorn summons out, bigger part of middle of the battlefield will be occupied by skirmish. Retreat with your main army back, regroup, heal, shoot etc.
Good idea until first dragon in enemy army, or enemy hero with fireball/fire rain.

[impy]

You say - no skills, items, rage, spells..that's exactly what this challenge is about. It does not have to be pretty, but difficult & different. There is still enough tactical elements involved. Were my previous challenges pretty? I cannot tell, but my emphasis has always been on increased difficulty somehow, ad this last challenge is a pinnacle of them. You see, I am naturally defensive cautious player and increased difficulty appeals to me. Like I said feel free to amend it the way you like.
But the rest of your post left a bit baffled.
1) KB AP+CW games have been out for years, and kiting has been described and discussed in depth. Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under impression that kiting refers to removing "stationary" continent scroll guardians and getting a scroll without fight. There are no such guardians on Debir. Just running around and picking free laying items does not constitute kiting. There are instances when continent scrolls may be awkwardly placed (on the litle patch of land by the sea in case Monster of the Abyss is placed there as well) but there are no "stationary" guardians. I believe it is developers
decision not to have such guardians on Debir (and partly Scarlet), since you are very low level with limited army choices, and it would just cause players' frustration to have some stronger guardians right on Debir. Many would just restart the game to get better conditions.
2) it's true you will most likely not have 2 runemages before fighting for Verona scroll in this challenge, I just provided a useful tip which does not necessarily have to kick in right at the start. It is useful later under specific circumstances, just like royal thorns are useful early on and again later on when situation calls for it - for example no strong shooters in enemy army + slow melee units. Summoning 2 x thorns before enemy comes and holding the middle could be the only way to victory..
I do not use just one army setup. I have castles full of units waiting - royal thorns, demonologists, engineers, trolls...My current setup you can see in the screenshot. Dragons are weak, and only pester shooters. I wish to replace them with vampires later on.

[Fatt_Shade]

1) i know Debir map`s are unguarded but i said where you get paladin, when first pala i ever saw was after returning amulet of illumination from Bolo dungeon = some kiting must be involved to move droid hero there.
2) rune mages and thorn army is great tactic as you said, but i just know this will hit wall hard very soon.

I loved your idea for 14 fights end game with droids/bone dragon... challenge. It left everything available in game, but only limitation was 14 fights. Here you cut out all things i lover in KB series, but leave as much time as player want to finish game. Dont know, just not my thing :-)
Good luck nevertheless :-)

[impy]

you're right about paladins, they're always appear after returning amulet on Debir. Although it is not necessarily their first appearance. I've seen them few times in the tent behind Hector Norbu; but that's random as we all know. And yes, one has to move the Bolo droid for the amulet, but since he is not a continent scroll guardian, it is ok:-)
here is a small update after 154 fights. That is roughly half of the game, still going no-loss. I haven't got access to Elon, shettera or any of those later islands. I was quite lucky with relatively easy Verona & Montero guardians, but other scrolls are guarded by those overpowered orcs mostly. I have done all fights which although very difficult, did not require casting practically any spells. I also bought upgradeable items and gained experience there. My core army you can see in the screenshot. I have to say that difficulty of game rises faster than the strength of droids, rune mages etc, and no-loss seems unlikely, we'll see.
So here are the other possibilities:
- Mesmer quest gives black knights. I have around 8 x eviln scroll
- use Call of death to get ancient vampires (vampires) & use their drain ability. ideally in the fight where there are no strong shooters and there is a spot with limited access.
- use ghost + stone skin in similar way
- I found a few time back scrolls. So I can wreak havoc for two turns, divert enemy fire and then get the full numbers back. Ideally with strong special skills which would be handy for recharging. Royal griffins - they're level 4, damn, or maybe goblin shamas and their astral damage? or even royal snakes
- I have not tried those owerpowered orcs yet. orc veterans with haste? can loose approx 1600htp which rune mages can heal. How about little goblins? If I can divert enemy fire to some other target, they deal tremendous damage.
- good old fear spell. since my lowest unit is level 3 droid, units lower than that can be kept at bay. Well at least at end of the fight if repairing is difficult

[Fatt_Shade]

And yes, one has to move the Bolo droid for the amulet, but since he is not a continent scroll guardian, it is ok
You`re skirting around definition of kiting very closely :-P
Nice work so far, if you get Dersu/Uzala/Tekron with no loss, some nice quests with no battles could be found there with wings even better (have you done Hagni in so far Montero?)
Good luck my fellow KB theoretician :-)

[Razorflame]

so how's the challenge going?

it must be really hard to get heroes down who cast massive spells:P

I wonder how u are going to do bosses (A)

[impy]

Challenge is going well, thanks for asking:-) I was getting a bit frustrated, because I could see I really needed to defeat some new continent scroll guardian in order to progress, and it looked immensely difficult. I had Dersu scroll earlier, but with tactics which I am not very proud of - enemy army was mostly slower melee, so I just grabbed a few dragons and flew around burning them, fooling shooters with nature call etc. Well, it did the job and that's what matters. Bosses? they will be done at the very end of the game, although spider and frog maybe earlier. Heroes? I've done only those which I could kill comfortably regardless of their spells - Odin, Spirit of Sorrow for example.
But I'd like to share with you fight for Nameless scroll on Umkas. so here we go : first, I moved an enemy around a map a bit to have centre blocked. It's not great but at least two hexes were occupied and that's what I needed. I could not let those enemy units with speed 3-4 reach my back rank, since rune mages had no poison resistance, summons were fragile, and any unit attacked by crit from hyenas was a beyond fixing (if not killed outright). I also needed to keep Ents at the back, so they do not use their nasty distant attack. I had allowance of about 10 scrolls I think, so I grabbed few fear scrolls, demon portals (which a better than nature call - they block a hex for 2 turns), and time back scrolls (that's why I grabbed level 3 vampires, not level 4 ancient ones). Droids were obvious choice, vampires were chosen for poison res., life draining, no retaliation, but due to enemy numbers they were doing more of finishing jobs while keeping numbers high. So three centre hexes were held impregnable by 2 x rep. droids and vampires. 2 hexes at the bottom of the screen were held by summoned spiders + demon portal. I casted fear on hyenas so they just have nothing to attack behind the barrier. The only unit sent forward was sturdy droids which pulled thorns and worked on them. After initial summon rune mages just kept firing on hyeans in order to sheep them. I also needed second summon to be thorns which were kept at the back and once weak enemy stack were down, I overwhelmed the centre with summons. There you go - It is all combination of previously mentioned tactical finesses and at the end it worked.

[Razorflame]

eh what the one in verona with 1k peasant stack + demoness?

when he losing the fight he ussualy cast armageddon?

u used fear one last peasant stack or something? ^^

impressive how far u can get with being naked lol:P

but i gues your build is soley based on the droids

so your next naked challenge will be without using droids ;)

no loss ofc hahah

[impy]

I haven't done that hero with Armageddon yet. Once I am much stronger than him, I take only droids and mostly evade his army so his uses up his mana on weak demon portals then go for the kill.
Yes, I pretty much have to use droids a lot, since I do not have many means of resurrecting.
small update here - 200 fights done, rougly 2/3 of the game, still going no loss. A few more strategy tips (well known again :-) )
- 4 x dryads + black dragons for fighting almost any enemies consisting of level 1-3 units. Dragon lowers enemy initiative, if needed cast Battle cry spell to make sure enemy does not get a turn. dryads put enemies to sleep, dragons kill enemies one by one
- single black/red/bone dragons stack or any combination of 2 or 3 of them for fighting slower melee
- rune mages + any decent army vs. enemy army containing inquisitors. Let few inquisitors live at the end and resurrect back all your army via rune mages summons.
- higher leadership vampire+ancient vampire combo. Once you have higher leadership and vampires can take a hit they become a solid all rounder - taking down shooters, blocking the middle etc.. Best used as combo, because single unit still cannot take all the beating. In this challenge used together with droids.
As I said, these are all known strategies, interesting thing is when they are pushed to the limit. For example, I used single black dragon for just flying around in one old challenge. Single black dragon could hardly generate enough damage so it was mostly evading enemies. Not when you have leadership 20000 and can take 8 blacks + 10 reds. Yes, standard strategy is single stack of blacks which can take even respectable armies down quickly (just defeated level 42 Rakatarh in 25 turns, or White Night), but if situation calls for it even medium size shooters are manageable - fear, Chaos dragon for 2 turns, cast trap for nearby enemies and attack, oil mist, destroy shooters quickly and than let the fireworks begin...Dryad strategy works well even if enemy has one level 4-5 stack. you just cannot let it approach dryads and fool it with dragon stack and spells. Worked nicely on Shiva for example... Rune mages + inquisitors trick works well with Demenion, Thomas Torque, marshall's batton, archmages staff for example

[Razorflame]

nice ;)

suprised u still don't have trapper medal haha;)

[impy]

Well, this is what I was thinking - I can find let's say 0-20 trap scrolls randomly in the game. Since I am not allowed to learn spells, what's the point of using 10 of them to get trapper level 1 and get one random trap generated per battle if I can save all the scrolls and use them as and when I really need them.
Update here - 250 fights, still going no loss. If the whole game is roughly 300 fights, it means so far around 85% of the game can be finished with completely naked character and no loss...
Couple of tips & tricks
- remember difference between HMM2 and HMM3? In HMM2 enemy attacked your strongest stack, in HMM3 it was the weakest stack. In KB it is usually the weakest stack. Take advantage of it - use one unit which has low resist + low unit hitpoints, which will attract enemy fire and gives you the most advantage. The idea is to use this unit special skills and after taking heavy damage cast time back for resurrecting and recharging skills. Examples - take gorguanas and use their mark of blood skill, resurrect at the end of round 2 and cast mark of blood again. Take goblin shamans with toadstool liquor, unleash astral damage in round one, repeat in round two. For slower melee enemy, you can combine gorguanans with goblin shamas for some serious damage. This is generally very useful tactics once you learn time back spell, in this challenge it has its limits.You can also combine mark of blood with pain mirror spell.

[Razorflame]

GJ u already finished it or that impossible?:)

[impy]

I haven't had much time to play..It was snowing in london for a while and I was hoping to get snowed in so I can do something useful - like playing computer games:-) I am at 261 fights, still no-loss. I attached 2 savegames - one at level 2, after training, if somebody want to give it a try. Verona and Montero guardians are manageable as you can see from my previous screenshots. Game also has obscene number of time back scrolls, more than 10, which will be useful in endgame;I haven't used any so far.The second save is my current progress, if somebody want to take a peek and see what it's all about towards the end. Note : The saves are version 1.3.1. build 6170 unmodded

[Razorflame]

nice one i hardly play KB anymore since wotn was a flop so

if i ever get into it again i will try ;)

[impy]

cool:cool:
I think I said somewhere long time ago that my gaming life works in cycles, meaning every few years I go back to games which meant a lot to me. So I go back to HMM3 and play Shadow of death camp., followed by some brilliant maps like Vengeance is mine, Unleashing the bloodthirsty or Eternal love camp. Then I start up diablo2 and play some crazy druid build or something. Now it's KB turn. So I just sat there thinking what to do, since just regular playthrough will not cut it and came up with this naked challenge. I understand it may not appeal to many people, simply because it's just not "bombastic" enough:-). You do not have the dragon to cut through 20-48% of 1-2 stacks in round one, do not have the power to seriously cripple enemy (blind, slow...) , stone skin is weak, target non existent, it is more of a clever cat-and-mouse running around the battlefield with only cheap spells when desperate. Regarding my current progress: I stopped at 266 fights no loss, after that one has to start seriously using scrolls - timeback, peacefullnes, wanderer scrolls etc. Eventually I want to get around 280 fights no loss, to prove that over 90% of the game can be done this way. However, this screenshot from my old Paladin ultimate challenge caught my attention - 100% damage done by troops, 0% done by pet dragon or spell book. Since one cannot do 100% by pet dragon only, that only leaves 100% by spells. I am goint to try it, no special conditions this time. I suppose it was already done, but hey, why not? I just wonder if damage done by summons & clones counts as spell book or troop damage...

[Razorflame]

so u quit the no loss run with the no pet dragon/no skill useage?

[impy]

Noo,sir.. Just taking a very short break. I know I came up with this challenge and started posting about it and the least I should do is …simply to do my best. This naked challenge is by far the most difficult KB thing I played and although it has been nerve-wracking experience and most of the fights required planning, I still have enjoyed its..hm..call it purity and in a way simplicity. But after 266 fights I couldn’t find single fight which could be done no loss without fairly heavy usage of scrolls. And somehow I stopped having fun. And without fun there is very little motivation. I still want to go on, just need a short break. I started that 100% spell playthrough and I’m having fun again. It shouldn’t take long, then I go back to naked challenge. I’m using save posted on page 4 of Droids are not overpowered thread, which Fattshade tested and it seems very good. Done so far about 100 fights.

[Razorflame]

why not do a game where u get a 100% pet dragon kill xD

[impy]

actually I gave it a second thought today at work (where else:rolleyes:). So if you still enjoy KB and would like to try it from different angle then keep reading.

Rage generators :
passive : rage potions, toadstool liquor, sign of rage, dwarwen beer, fruit of tree of life, fountain of rage..
problem with passive rage generators is their limited supply. One should chain fights in order to maximize usefulness of rage.

active : spell damage - both direct and indirect (burning..) is classed as spell book damage.
unit damage - both attack and retaliation of unit is classed as troop damage
AoE damage on own units - bingo. That is what I thought first. You kill some of your own units (not enemy units) with let's say fire rain and gain massive rage. Help yourself with pain skull, spear of rage etc., job done. For some mysterious reason however, if you deal damage to your own units via spells, in the final screen it will be considered as spell damage! One would have thought that classification of damage only counts delivered damage by player to enemy ; not including damage to his own units.
items - wanderer gloves. These amazing gloves give +10 rage for each usage of teleport spell. so casting level 1 teleport twice by mage gives 20 rage in one round. And it works nicely beyond round 20.

Using gloves therefore seems the only option. Grab a unit with high initiative & speed (in order to avoid doing troop damage via retaliation) , get a mage character, kite the Teana, get higher magic 3, and work on mana oriented mage (intellect not needed), dragon toy would be nice. it is worth noting that unfortunately damage done by unit created by mystic egg counts as troop damage..

So there are two gameplay options at the end: either play the game as "purist" and do not use mystic egg, which will show as 100% pet dragon on the final screen after battle. I guess after kiting one can do as bare minimum at least initial 4 islands... The second option is to allow using mystic egg. Battle could then go on like this (assuming higher level mystic egg = 20+ rage cost) - battle starts, you wait with your unit, then teleport x 2 out of reach = 20 rage. Second round first wait, and hopefully with some received ranged damage you'll have enough rage for casting mystic egg. If still not, teleport once, cast mystic egg, cast target on your original troop to preserve the egg. Once unit is hatched , check battlefield situation. Either send it forward to die and create lots of rage for more mystic eggs - idea is to overwhelm the enemy with summons. Or just fool around with teleport, and come at the enemy when you're strong enough. 20 rage for 10= 2 x 5 mana cost for 6 rounds for mage is very cheap. Well of mana belt plus concentration level 3 gives 11 mana back per turn for a while for example. Using mystic egg sounds like fun, and I guess at least 150+ fights could theoretically be done this way.
Anyone up for a challenge?:-P

[impy]

An interesting observation here folks, as I am still playing that 100% spell game -- it is theoretically possible to reach 100 intellect in the KB Crossworlds game. (just saying, probably not the first one to report it). Look at the screenshot - intellect is 79. Note : I have not found any high number of intellect shrines at all. Figure 79 can be further improved by :

- wearing sandals of the martyr = +2 int gain
- student belt = +1 int gain
- snake ring = +1 int gain (instead of ancient amulet)
- using Depth of Thought scroll = +10 int gain

That bring the total intellect to 93. Now here comes the interesting part. I found Living bow pretty early in the game and have been using it all the time apart from really difficult fights, simply because I wanted to have a chance to get a branch, which gives +1 int permanent. I originally thought that what you get (either fruit or branch) is random but set in stone (just like when breaking down item via neatness skill - you always get the same). However, it turned out it works just like with colossus scroll - if you replay a few battles around , you can ALWAYS get the branch and get +1int. Now if you look at the screenshot you can see I already collected 6 fruits during the game so that could have been +6int instead and I am at 228 fights only. So it is still possible to get 1-2 more intellect out of it for a grand total of 100-101 intellect..

[Fatt_Shade]

Interesting info. Is this save file you posted in droids arent OP ? i played that game and got to 87 int with Depth of thought, and black hole spell was devastating for enemy troops :-)
Question : did you use Ring of mind item for +3int on 30 battles ? And did you consider instead +1int belt to use Metamorphic axel for +4int from Tower in Darion island?
That would be truly terrifying spell dmg :-P

[impy]

Yes, it is that save. I used the ring, good thinking with met. axe8). I just got it from Debir's tower. That brings the int. to 94 with Depth of thought scroll, see screenshot. Bit of shame with those 6 fruits there, but at least people know now that playing with that save it is possible to get to 94 + 6 = 100 intellect. With sandals of martyr & snake ring (which I have not seen in this game) it will go to 103, and with a bit of luck with intellect shrines in some other playthrough it may go to 105!

[Fatt_Shade]

Could you post screens with spell book dmg for certain spells ? Like trap , black hole, pain mirror etc for 94 intellect :-)

[impy]

all right then, here is few screenshots showing what intellect 94 can do. Let the pics do the talking:grin:

[impy]

and a few more..:shock:

[Fatt_Shade]

That`s some scary numbers :-)
I said this before, and i`ll say it again : we need new formula for attack/defense bonuses from hero stats. High intellect mage is unstoppable late game, it`s not even funny to look at him in first turn use black hole, and then spend 3 round digging for chests :-)
In adventure mod (post #82) bladeking77 on my idea got att/def to give additional perks to hero army. It works great, and would be nice to implement into game regularly. Maybe different bonus depending on multiplier but att give bonus crit% for every X attack, and def give resistances on every Y defense from hero.
i added this into my game, just thought to spread idea to other after seeing possible 100+ intellect mage, and knowing that att and def are useless after +50 (maybe not even that much).
Anyway nice game impy. Have fun ppl :-)

[impy]

you're right, very high intellect with blackhole spell is actually a boring combo. Don't know why they have done it like that, I mean, press a button and every enemy stack gets a damage. With deathstar you have actually use your brain. It is about self-imposed challenges I guess, just do not normally use overpowered spells, combos (droids, black knights etc), although I really enjoyed 100%crit shooters gameplay for example.
anyway, I managed to finish that 100% spell damage only playthrough:roll:, screenshots attached as always. Over next few days I sit down and write some simple guide.

[Fatt_Shade]

What bugs me, how dev`s made rage skills same for all classes, but only mage is possible to deal ridiculous amount of spell dmg (as it should be) and only warrior (in WotN paladin class0 can dish out 300K crit because of huge army high lds value.
But then rage skills are same for all classes :-(
Why not make it so rage skills dmg is connected to something in hero development, not fixed value for pet dragon.
Spell dmg changes with every intellect point in hero stats, or depending on army stack situation (plague, pugmy ...).
Army dmg depends on attack/defense ratio, or also on army stack situation (defenseless , berserk spells ...). And then we have rage skills that have fixed amount of dmg no matter if your hero have only 1 lvl in Rage skill, rage pool of 30 or 100.
Here`s crazy idea : same way as Dragon toy item boost dmg for rage skills , to make relation with some hero stats to increase rage skills dmg/influence (higher lds for mystic egg or stronger wall).
Any thoughts on this ?

[impy]

I agree pet dragon abilities (PDA) should scale. Obviously not just as currently existing abilities levels but via some other mechanics as well.
- One mustn't forget pet dragon is only a complementary unit, and not main unit. Therefore his output cannot be as high as intellect output. You can see what happens when intellect is very high, mage is then unstoppable. Playing such game is fun, but only once. Simply because it does not matter what units are in your army, everything gets destroyed by spells - beats the purpose of the game replayability. The same would happen if pet dragon was allowed to such strengths. Note that it takes quite a lot of lucky RNG to get high intellect mage; there are very few pet dragon items, less room for RNG etc. Secondly, Intellect is a major factor for mage who otherwise is a weakling - att, def, leadership. However, warrior even without casting any magic spells or using pet dragon has highest chances to win battles due to superior att/def/leadership. Again, that is why PDA cannot be set very high. I am talking Crossworlds here, did not play Wotn much.
- PDA scale should be easily accesible to warrior, optional for paladin, and difficult to achieve by mage. Simple for example 3%/2%/1% PDA scale per hero level per class could do, but would be not the best way. It takes away a lot of fun from building your character. Currently you can via trading runes create any viable spec, like direct damage casting warrior etc, melee mage; not as strong as natural choices but possible. Therefore there could be some more skills in hero might tree concerning PDA, in lower half of skill tree. There is one empty slot at the moment and Revenge is kind of non-strategic (meaning percentage based) expensive skill. One new skill could scale the strength of all PDA, the other one - just one very expensive level - reducing casting time by one round (if recovery is only one round, you can use that ability twice per per round; up to some xxx limit). These are just examples. I suppose developers realized this long time ago. However, there are already 3 skills for pet dragon, with extra 2 that would be 5, and that might be too much for just complementary unit only. Especially the unit not allowed for boss fights... They shifted leadership in Wotn towards paladin class, which creates a room for increased usefulnes (if not dependence) of warrior on pet dragon.

[Fatt_Shade]

I didn`t think to make PDA parallel to mage spells, just to make it different in classes. So warrior/pala/mage dont have SAME utilities with rage skills.
And no need for special hero skill for PDA, but something passive like intellect bonus to spell dmg, as imentioned for every X rage amount you have, you get some bonus to PDA so to make +rage items maybe more useful in game.

As for changed lds to paladin in WotN, a said that should be done years ago. Pala simply had no advantage to other classes, now it`s a bit interesting to pick compared to warrior/mage if nothing else then sheer numbers of army.

[impy]

I had a closer look at those wanderer gloves and came across something interesting, although sadly exploitative. Yet again, not sure if this has been reported before, however - there is a way how to get pet dragon from level 1 to level 60 in just one battle:confused:...
So here we go: wanderer gloves give +10 rage for every teleport spell used. No need to use higher than level 1 teleport which is the cheapest, so for cost of 5mana you get 10rage; 10mana gives you 20rage etc. As tested this works indefinitely, regardless of 20rounds rage generation limit. So situation we have here is : for 10mana you get 20 rage. Now, if we are in return able to generate 10 or more mana from 20rage, we will get pet dragon experience for using mana accelerator skill, and also have sufficient mana for casting teleports again. (note: it is not about 10mana vs 20rage really, that's just neat example, it is basically 1:2 ratio). now quick look at pet dragon mana accelerator levels - see King's bounty : armored princess : sticky Appendix, and you'll see that mana generation is more than generous to sustain this process indefinitely....
So what you do is get some unit with high initiative (in order not to get hit), just small numbers (in order to maximize leadership ratio of enemy vs. you and maximize pet dragon exp. gain) and let some huge one slow enemy stack standing. Do not hit the enemy unit , just teleport around and use the combo - teleport - mana accelerator. When you get tired of it, just kill enemy unit. In my test I got tired after 14 pet dragon levels..voila

[Razorflame]

any news yet on your naked challenge?