Black dragons and magic immunity

[Pug of Stardock]

I thought black dragons were supposed to be immune to magic. I just fought a mini-boss who cast the geyser spell and my black dragons went floating up with the other units affected. Didn't do much damage, but the dragons were affected.

I know the description for black dragons in WoTN says 80%, but so many of the descriptions in the game are cryptic or outright wrong, I wasn't sure what to make of it. In Armored Princess, I NEVER had blackies affected by spells - mine or others. I have NEVER been able to use one of my spells/buffs on my Black dragons in WoTN, so I was surprised when this happened.

Did this immunity change in WoTN? Bug or feature?

[ckdamascus]

I thought black dragons were supposed to be immune to magic. I just fought a mini-boss who cast the geyser spell and my black dragons went floating up with the other units affected. Didn't do much damage, but the dragons were affected.

I know the description for black dragons in WoTN says 80%, but so many of the descriptions in the game are cryptic or outright wrong, I wasn't sure what to make of it. In Armored Princess, I NEVER had blackies affected by spells - mine or others. I have NEVER been able to use one of my spells/buffs on my Black dragons in WoTN, so I was surprised when this happened.

Did this immunity change in WoTN? Bug or feature?

New change introduced in Crossworlds -- Geyser works on them now (bullcrap).

Furthermore, a new change in Warriors of the North, pure physical spells can now be cast on Black Dragons such as Axe of Magic (and probably Ghost Blade)

As an aside for posterity, Plague could always be cast on Black Dragons at least from Armored Princess.

I don't like the changes considering Black Dragons cannot be healed compared to Crossworlds... buff Black Dragons if you are going to add these new weaknesses.

[Pug of Stardock]

Thanks for that. I haven't really used the Black dragons much since I discovered geyser can affect them and because they can't be healed or res'ed. They could be healed with Shaman axes in Armored and Crossworlds, but I haven't tried that in WoTN.

I saw an earlier post that said black dragons can be resurrected by the shaman axes now, but I haven't tried that either.

I love the black dragons (I have a thing for dragons, ahem), but their healing limitations diminish their usefulness, especially in tough fights with bosses who use magic. And, of course, they are not that effective against demons who are less susceptible to fire. Instead, I've been using the Ice Dragons who conjure that cute little mini-me which the enemy units seem to target preferentially.

[ckdamascus]

Thanks for that. I haven't really used the Black dragons much since I discovered geyser can affect them and because they can't be healed or res'ed. They could be healed with Shaman axes in Armored and Crossworlds, but I haven't tried that in WoTN.

I saw an earlier post that said black dragons can be resurrected by the shaman axes now, but I haven't tried that either.

I love the black dragons (I have a thing for dragons, ahem), but their healing limitations diminish their usefulness, especially in tough fights with bosses who use magic. And, of course, they are not that effective against demons who are less susceptible to fire. Instead, I've been using the Ice Dragons who conjure that cute little mini-me which the enemy units seem to target preferentially.

Shaman actually does still work (the healing axes) in Warrior of the North.

Pretty sure Shaman Magic Axe can NEVER resurrect black dragons (despite hearing a few times they could).

In Crossworlds, the rune mages there could revive black dragons directly.

Yeah, in boss fights they are terrible now. They used to be GREAT for solo stacks against heroes, but now, not so much since they can be targeted by a lot of spells.

Well, they do inflict a -1 penalty to the enemy initiative level 1-4 so they can still be somewhat useful against demons. Definately not ideal though. Yeah, every summon has higher target priority so that is no surprise the ice dragons are good for that purpose.

The mini dragons also have evasion which is really nice! The ice dragons can ALSO be healed via ice snake spell!

[Pug of Stardock]

There are a lot of "I wish this game had . . ." threads on forums, but in WoTN, I wish they had a consistent way to heal and resurrect the black dragons. Maybe they should have made the paladin have a super heal/resurrect ability. Kind of like the Royal Griffin celestial guards, but have the paladin conjure a celestial paladin that can heal anybody including all level 5 creatures like black dragons, royal thorns, whatever. It would giving more long-term viability to using those units.

In addition to the new Ice Dragons, I also found the Ice Spiders a nice new unit. And from the forum and my own experience, I learned that the Ice Snake spell will heal them. I did read that this spell would also resurrect them, but I've tried that and it has not worked. It's nice to know that Ice Snake will also heal Ice Dragons.

I'm playing on normal difficulty and I am not really trying to get a no-loss game. But with units that can be hard to find, the player should have the ability, once they are high-enough level in the game, to preserve as many as possible.

[ckdamascus]

There are a lot of "I wish this game had . . ." threads on forums, but in WoTN, I wish they had a consistent way to heal and resurrect the black dragons. Maybe they should have made the paladin have a super heal/resurrect ability. Kind of like the Royal Griffin celestial guards, but have the paladin conjure a celestial paladin that can heal anybody including all level 5 creatures like black dragons, royal thorns, whatever. It would giving more long-term viability to using those units.

In addition to the new Ice Dragons, I also found the Ice Spiders a nice new unit. And from the forum and my own experience, I learned that the Ice Snake spell will heal them. I did read that this spell would also resurrect them, but I've tried that and it has not worked. It's nice to know that Ice Snake will also heal Ice Dragons.

I'm playing on normal difficulty and I am not really trying to get a no-loss game. But with units that can be hard to find, the player should have the ability, once they are high-enough level in the game, to preserve as many as possible.

You want to play Crossworlds then. ;) Ancient Phoenix can resurrect level 5s (not sure about black dragons though). Rune Mage can resurrect black dragons, etc. ;)

I don't think the Ice Snake can resurrect.

I like Ice Spiders, but they are too weak to heal en-masse. Maybe with demonologists...

Black Dragons are more of a finesse monster. They aren't meant to be used as straight up fighters, but as deadly interdictors with powerful skirmishing capabilities.

[graybeard613]

Inquisitors can resurrect level 5 units including Red Dragons. Haven't tried it with Blacks yet.

[Handel]

"Magic immunity" works as not allowing to target them with a spell. But if you use indirect attack you can still hurt them as they actually have only 80% magic immunity. As for the geyser I think it does physical damage from the falling, not magical damage from the spell itself.

[Pug of Stardock]

"Magic immunity" works as not allowing to target them with a spell. But if you use indirect attack you can still hurt them as they actually have only 80% magic immunity. As for the geyser I think it does physical damage from the falling, not magical damage from the spell itself.

If this is true, then geyser should not work against black dragons. Here is the exact description from the game of 'magic immunity' for black dragons.

"80% resistance to magic damage. No spells affect the creature."

Geyser is a spell and therefore should not work against black dragons regardless of the type of damage it does. In multiple play-throughs of Armored Princess and Crossworlds, I NEVER had geyser work against my black dragons. Black dragons should be affected by units that use magical damage such as the goblin shaman, but not by a spell cast by the boss enemy.

My guess is they changed the mechanics of certain spells affecting black dragons, but they did not change the in-game description. (It seems in this game that the descriptions are full of obfuscations and misdirections.) I remember many players on the forums for AP saying they thought black dragons were over-powered because of this immunity.

I can accept that black dragons (and ice dragons) are now susceptible to certain spells, I was just surprised when it happened in my game because the description says NO SPELLS AFFECT THE CREATURE (my emphasis).

[tiberiu]

Black dragons were never immune to magic. They were always bugged. You could always cast Plague on them which completly destroys their attack and defense, making them easy targets. I was the old school player to discover this.

[Fatt_Shade]

@Pug
If this is true, then geyser should not work against black dragons. Here is the exact description from the game of 'magic immunity' for black dragons.
Thing is, only couple of spells in game deal pure magic dmg, comparing to many that make physical/astral/fire ... Healing/holy rain to undead , lightning , angel avenger , magic missile , rune chain , and that`s all of magic dmg spell. Now for fire, poison, astral , physical, and new glacial there is much more spells then just for magic dmg type.
My thought for making BD susceptible to spells was to make them targetable for other spells not just plague as in earlier games (pain mirror , defenseless, ice snake freeze effect , geyser stun effect , lightning shock effect ...)
As for wrong description ... why are you surprised ??? Half of game is translated wrong, why would BD spell immunity be any different.

@tiberiu
I was the old school player to discover this.
STFU. If you`re first to figure out plague works on BD that makes you Nike_it administrator of this forum http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=5040&highlight=plague (first post in KB forum about plague and BD October 2008).

[Razorflame]

Black dragons were never immune to magic. They were always bugged. You could always cast Plague on them which completly destroys their attack and defense, making them easy targets. I was the old school player to discover this.

LOL oldschool?

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IIRC astral spell damage did hurt black dragons?
that was the only spell type that could black dragons

in either case they messed up alot of WOTN should have been a great game but instead it's fail
:)

[ckdamascus]

LOL oldschool?

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JOIN DATE 2012 you call this oldschool HAHAHAHAAHAH don't make me laugh

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IIRC astral spell damage did hurt black dragons?
that was the only spell type that could black dragons

in either case they messed up alot of WOTN should have been a great game but instead it's fail
:)

In Crossworlds, Astral spells could hurt Black Dragons (Armageddon) IF you target the Black Dragon's Ally because you still couldn't target the Black Dragons.

So, a solo black dragon stack could fight the Demoness Heroine in Verona that loved to cast Armageddon when she was losing (the one with 20K peasants) and never get hit once with it.

But, Black Dragon + Red Dragons vs her, and suddenly your black dragons are going to get hit with Armaggedon because she can target the red dragons.

[Razorflame]

so i was correct about the astrall damge:)

[ckdamascus]

so i was correct about the astrall damge:)

Well you wouldn't be wrong from that statement by itself, but you didn't say anything out of the ordinary from that angle.

Units to not usually have beyond the normal defense (from medals and items) against astral damage. You can kill black dragons with magic damage too... just much harder since they are highly resistant. You can't target them except for a few handful of spells as we stated.

But the issue here is targetability, not susceptibility to damage.

If you mean targetability, you are technically incorrect as you can't target Armageddon on the Black Dragons. It just happens to hit "everything" regardless if the other units are 'targetable' or not.

It is more of a nuance if anything and I thought that was the case with Geyser in Crossworlds, but I believe it is no longer the case now (since physicals can hit magic resistant now). Sniffles.

It might even be a bug, but they probably aren't going to 'fix' it. We dont even know if Plague targetability was intended (since that's a pretty blatant error).

[Razorflame]

this game might have more bugs than TL:AP:CW together xD