Impossible Viking/No Rune Mage Geyser No Loss

[ckdamascus]

As a Soothsayer, I was able to use solo level 5 stacks to beat heroes with Geyser with No Loss

However, as a Viking, I used non-stop Rune Mage phantoming, level 4s, paladin and it felt a little dirty. :)

Now in hindsight, I'm not really sure how I'd win it without such methods besides just killing the enemy really fast and waiting for the enemy to burn away all his mana before doing the massive resurrection project with phantom/gift/chargers/runic word/turn back time, etc.

Now that Geyser supposedly deals both cold and physical, it seems hard to resist it completely with stoneskin.

What are some of your thoughts on this? I'm considering some new unique builds, but most of them would be very weak against enemy heroes with geyser.

[dainbramage]

Whittle him down to one stack ASAP, blind it (or sheep or any other disabling skill, but blind on a low level stack is the most mana-efficient), revive everything with paladins. I haven't run into anything that geysers hard enough to need more than about 3 prayers on my paladins.

[ckdamascus]

Whittle him down to one stack ASAP, blind it (or sheep or any other disabling skill, but blind on a low level stack is the most mana-efficient), revive everything with paladins. I haven't run into anything that geysers hard enough to need more than about 3 prayers on my paladins.

I was sort of afraid that's the only way to do it. :(

Against all dragon army heroes, I had to get lucky since you can't disable those guys. Just got to blitz and pray! :)

I might have to use the Rune Tree to use Gift since that is cheaper mana wise and I'll need that as a Viking.

I'm considering some semi-interesting armies

Berserker Axe (30% crit to axe users) includes
- Jarls
- Demons
- Goblins
- Goblin Shaman
- Furious Goblin

Orcs don't seem too bad. Not nearly as good as before, but not too bad.

I'm also considering anything with a strong counter attack (multi or unlimited)
- Royal Griffins (I really dislike them though...)
- Demons
- Orc Veterans
- Berserkers

Multi/Unlimited counter attacks means faster battles and lots of rage. I used to do this via "Phantom Horsemen" blitz but I want to try something different, fun, yet fast!

Demons are high on my list, but sadly they won't work with Paladins. Demonologists require bodies to feed off of... if only I had the OLD rune mage.

I'd be amazed if I could do this without Paladins and/or summons, but that probably isn't happening unless I commit to a "lossy" build.

If I do a lossy build, I need a special edge like fastest real time or fastest game time play (speed run) where I skip most quests and just go for fastest win.

[Harakiri]

If you have Ice Prison, its just a matter of time.

E.g. you can double cast this one lvl2 units in one round, or 1 for lvl3 or lvl4.

It lasts for about 8 rounds.

Then you simply kill one troop after another.

[ckdamascus]

If you have Ice Prison, its just a matter of time.

E.g. you can double cast this one lvl2 units in one round, or 1 for lvl3 or lvl4.

It lasts for about 8 rounds.

Then you simply kill one troop after another.

I never used it, and I've heard/seen conflicting information about what the description or intention should be for that spell.

It says the target can try to break out that turn, but supposedly they never do, despite the description saying otherwise.

Sounds like an exploit then and a rather expensive disable at 35 mana. Although it does last a while (native 5 rounds), but it can be broken by allies if the AI is smart enough.

I'll consider using it if I need a lot of rounds to recover, but that lends more weight for me using mass rune mages which is arguably broken/not being used correctly right now. I simply won't have enough mana to sustain mass gifts.

I suppose I need to use "Chargers" more? :)

[Harakiri]

I never used it, and I've heard/seen conflicting information about what the description or intention should be for that spell.

It says the target can try to break out that turn, but supposedly they never do, despite the description saying otherwise.

Sounds like an exploit then and a rather expensive disable at 35 mana. Although it does last a while (native 5 rounds), but it can be broken by allies if the AI is smart enough.

I'll consider using it if I need a lot of rounds to recover, but that lends more weight for me using mass rune mages which is arguably broken/not being used correctly right now. I simply won't have enough mana to sustain mass gifts.

I suppose I need to use "Chargers" more? :)

The vanilla install without mods wont say that they can break out of it - also, its not 35mana - thats for the highest lvl unit and for lvl2 units its 20 or 15, cant remember.
Moreover its over 8 rounds if you have the mage tree enhancements

[ckdamascus]

The vanilla install without mods wont say that they can break out of it - also, its not 35mana - thats for the highest lvl unit and for lvl2 units its 20 or 15, cant remember.
Moreover its over 8 rounds if you have the mage tree enhancements

I'm on a vanilla install with the latest patches build 6249.

I'm pretty sure the original build says it too, but it has conflicting information as I noted in my earlier post.

It says it can't "attack or move" while inside of it. Yet, it says on its turn it has a chance to break out.

I'm interpretting that as it can't shoot or use abilities on other enemies while inside the prison; but when it is during its turn it can choose to melee out of the prison.

[Harakiri]

I dont have the game at me atm - does lvl3 say the same thing?

[ckdamascus]

I dont have the game at me atm - does lvl3 say the same thing?

Yes (besides requiring more mana and crystals). I could go through the trouble of reverting back to build 6246 (initial release), but that's hardly the point. ;)

I could also test/try Ice Prison right now, but again not much point if it wasn't intended to be used that way.

[ckdamascus]

Wow, Gift / Runic Word is AWESOME. I forgot that early on Phantom is terrible for the mana cost.

I suppose chargers is good too to keep the battle going. Gosh, if I had rune mages this would be even more insane.

[dainbramage]

Wow, Gift / Runic Word is AWESOME. I forgot that early on Phantom is terrible for the mana cost.

I suppose chargers is good too to keep the battle going. Gosh, if I had rune mages this would be even more insane.

Wouldn't phantom always be inferior to gift? You'd need a level 1 phantom to reach about 75%. On my viking (who admittedly hasn't exactly invested in spellcasting) it's only at ~30%, but even with another 20-30 intellect I don't see it reaching that high. And creation isn't as strong as summoner was in AP.

Phantom was the go-to spell in AP because gift was removed. Now that it's back (and you no longer want to recharge rune mages' revive), gift seems better in every way.