Spotting the enemy?

[Bonkin]

Does anybody else find it extremely difficult to spot the enemy? I’ve been suffering for a while and last night on ATAG was no exception… my fellow squad mates are calling out targets left right and centre and I’m just not seeing them until I’m virtually on top of them. It’s got so bad that I’m wondering if it’s actually not just me being crap but something to do with my set up. I’ve tried changing resolution but that didn’t help, I’ve tried fiddling with anti-aliasing and that doesn’t help either. Could it be my monitor? I have a Dell 2208WFP Ultrasharp.

Whilst I applause the latest (final) patch it actually seems to make matters worse – especially if the sun is behind you and the target dips below the horizon. Everything just gets lost through the prop haze – which incidentally is not at all realistic.

On YouTube I’ve watched other people’s videos and I wonder how on earth they can spot and track a target against the ground from altitude. MK.Mr.X for example… tried running his at full screen and max resolution and I just don’t know how he does it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSIj6AfOh4M&hd=1&t=4m20s

Any thoughts or comments that could help me out?

[5./JG27.Farber]

goto my documents\1csoftclub\cliffs of dover. Find in this folder a file called, "conf.ini" rename it to "confbackup.ini" Close the folder.

Open steam, right click the game in library, go to properties. Disable steam cloud for this game under the updats tab, box should be unticked.

Now start cliffs of dover and steam should replace the file from the template in the steam folder...

Redo your video settings (in game only.)

Both I and a squad mate had this problem and this seems to fix it.

[MusseMus]

Any thoughts or comments that could help me out?

Hi!

I’ve suffered from the same problem for some time but installing FXAA with “Les Neutral6” has greatly improved my spotting:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=477070&postcount=141

It’s probably just be a placebo effect, but setting the in-game AA to “x8” seems to help too (but I’m quite sure the FXAA overrides this).

Always use the native resolution of your monitor, in your case 1680x1050.

Also, setting textures to “original” and model details to “high” helps me alot.

Almost forgot: Changing MeshShowLod to 1 (from 0) in conf.ini (in documents\1csoftclub\cliffs of dover) removed some of the problems with disappearing contacts at long and mid-range. Kills fremerate on some systems, but worth it :-)

Good luck!
/m

[klem]

Does anybody else find it extremely difficult to spot the enemy? I’ve been suffering for a while and last night on ATAG was no exception… my fellow squad mates are calling out targets left right and centre and I’m just not seeing them until I’m virtually on top of them. It’s got so bad that I’m wondering if it’s actually not just me being crap but something to do with my set up. I’ve tried changing resolution but that didn’t help, I’ve tried fiddling with anti-aliasing and that doesn’t help either. Could it be my monitor? I have a Dell 2208WFP Ultrasharp.

Whilst I applause the latest (final) patch it actually seems to make matters worse – especially if the sun is behind you and the target dips below the horizon. Everything just gets lost through the prop haze – which incidentally is not at all realistic.

On YouTube I’ve watched other people’s videos and I wonder how on earth they can spot and track a target against the ground from altitude. MK.Mr.X for example… tried running his at full screen and max resolution and I just don’t know how he does it.

.................................................

Any thoughts or comments that could help me out?

This may also help. Your setup is almost the same as mine but my monitor is a Samsung 226BW at 1680 x 1050.

It is hard to see aircraft against the ground. One tip is to watch for movement rather than an aircraft then focus on that area. Also get a sense of the direction and the way the target is flying to help pick it up again if it briefly becomes unseeable. Several times Mr X's target seems to disappear but by following on the target's apparent track and waiting it reappears against changing landscape or when it pops up above the horizon. It is also probably easier to see than appears in Mr X's video which was probably captured on FRAPS and doesn't have the resolution of the original so he may not have the super-eyeballs you may be attributing to him from the video.

The most distant dots are, to me, very vague pale blue/grey dots that grow in strength until they are clearly a dot. There is a transition between dot and aircraft shape which at the beginning causes the aircraft shape to flicker (when it is still very small, perhaps 10 pixels or about 2 mm on my screen). As it closes it becomes steady and more visible but at dot-to-shape range it can be difficult to see. Over terrain the camouflage seems to work well (whether this is clever graphics work or in fact lousy graphics rendering I am not sure). Again, the trick is to stay on the apparent target track, watching for movement against the background and remembering to glance either side of track in case he has turned.

It's easy to say, but it gets better with practice.

Mr X doesn't appear to use TrackIR so I am amazed at how he manages to switch those views around. If you are using a Hat switch you are probably at a disadvantage versus those with TrackIR.

I also strongly recommend the SweetFX file set (rather than the injFX or FXAA file set) which you can find here:-
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=477070&postcount=141

[MusseMus]

I also strongly recommend the SweetFX file set (rather than the injFX or FXAA file set) which you can find here

I tried to switch from FXAA to SweetFX a couple of weeks ago but for me spotting became harder, especially against land. But since it seems to improve things on Klems system I suggest trying both to see which works best for your monitor, system and resolution.

Cheers/m

[VO101_Tom]

Does anybody else find it extremely difficult to spot the enemy?
...

Hi. This question appears two weeks ago, when we flying on ATAG. My mates saw nothing, meantime I'm telling them the contacts. We take a closer look, and we found, that the problem was their MONITOR settings. Different monitor profiles, light and contrast, etc. I made a screenshot, you should see 5 contact (1 o clock, low):

(1680x1050 pixel, .bmp)
Contact test (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt.bmp)

Obvious, you have to see this picture in original size, without any zoom. Here is a little help (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt_help.bmp) if you don't find them.
If you see nothing, your monitor need adjust.

[Sokol1]

I made a screenshot, you should see 5 contact (1 o clock, low):

(1680x1050 pixel, .bmp)
Contact test (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt.bmp)



I see six - one at ~2 o'clock - right, far. :)

Nice test, thank you.

Sokol1

[Matt255]

I see a formation of ~10 planes at 11 o'clock (to the right of the left canopy strut).

I also find it exceptionally hard to spot other planes and frequently lose wingmen or enemies after a few maneuvers. I guess it's just lack of practice.

Judging distances is also quite tough imho. Wether an enemy is 5 km or 2 km away, doesn't seem to make a huge difference.

I think overall, TrackIR might make this harder, because your head is moving around quite a bit. If the view would be steady most of the time (say you use a hatswitch or something), moving dots will most likely be easier to find. Unfortunately, i'm so used to TrackIR now that i'm not in the mood to test other view controls.

[VO101_Tom]

I see six - one at ~2 o'clock - right, far. :)

Nice test, thank you.

Sokol1

Yes, you're right both of you :cool:
Anyway, the point is not the particular number, but it visible or not.

[MusseMus]

Contact test (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt.bmp)

Thats a great "calibration template" Tom! It should be included in the official game manual :grin:

Cheers/m

[klem]

Hi. This question appears two weeks ago, when we flying on ATAG. My mates saw nothing, meantime I'm telling them the contacts. We take a closer look, and we found, that the problem was their MONITOR settings. Different monitor profiles, light and contrast, etc. I made a screenshot, you should see 5 contact (1 o clock, low):

(1680x1050 pixel, .bmp)
Contact test (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt.bmp)

Obvious, you have to see this picture in original size, without any zoom. Here is a little help (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt_help.bmp) if you don't find them.
If you see nothing, your monitor need adjust.

I can just about see some of them but it depends on the angle of my eyes to the screen which may mean my eyes or my eyeglasses. I am sure I wouldn't detect them in flight looking like that yet I am sure I would see them at that range in-game as I estimate they are about 6km distant (only about half a sector) if on the deck. I tried the many different settings on my monitor without improvement over my current settings (I find dynamic contrast gives me the best result especially with the SMAA files). I wonder if one person's screen shot can truly carry across to someone elses screen.

Just how clear are they to you Tom and what is their appearance like?

[Bonkin]

Thanks for all your comments - very much appreciated. Yet to fly with squad mates so I can't verify if any of the changes I've made really work - so initial findings (flying around on my own) are somewhat subjective.

First off I tried Farber's suggestion and ensured that the stream cloud syncronisation checkbox was unchecked. At first it was enabled but greyed out so I couldn't change it - although I figured out that you have to set the generic settings (Downloads+Cloud) to enabled first. Only then can you change it for an individual game. Fired up the game and took off from Manston and headed for France. Managed to intercept a Staffel of He111's which I spotted from some distance... perhaps it's working?

Next tried out MusseMus suggestion and set AA to x8, native resolution, textures to "original" and model details "high". I did not try the MeshShowLod setting or the FXAA mod (can you apply this for online use?). Had a fly around and was able to track a few aircraft reasonably OK but still had difficulty with them against the ground. Very difficult to tell if there is actually any difference.

Klem suggested SweetFX rather than FXAA. Sorry didn't try that... still unsure it would be OK for online use.

Now we come to VO101 Tom and his "Contact test" calibration picture.

Hi. This question appears two weeks ago, when we flying on ATAG. My mates saw nothing, meantime I'm telling them the contacts. We take a closer look, and we found, that the problem was their MONITOR settings. Different monitor profiles, light and contrast, etc. I made a screenshot, you should see 5 contact (1 o clock, low):

(1680x1050 pixel, .bmp)
Contact test (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt.bmp)

Obvious, you have to see this picture in original size, without any zoom. Here is a little help (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt_help.bmp) if you don't find them.
If you see nothing, your monitor need adjust.

Now this I thought was a good idea - but it is plane for me that I just couldn't see the dots (even with the help picture). So I set about changing my monitor settings and was able to tweak so I could see something. However, I'm absolutely certain that I wouldn't see them in game. The in game colours are now really rich and more life like - however outside of the game there is just too much contrast for normal windows applications.

I'll add more when I've been online with my squad. Initial findings would suggest that monitor settings and mode (mine has different ones for different uses), and disabling the steam cloud syncronisation, have the most effect.

[MusseMus]

I'll add more when I've been online with my squad. Initial findings would suggest that monitor settings and mode (mine has different ones for different uses), and disabling the steam cloud syncronisation, have the most effect.

I'm glad your spotting has improved using some of the tricks mentioned in this thread!
I still highly recommend you to try the MeshShowLod setting and install FXAA or SweetFX since this is what made the biggest impact on my personal spotting. You can use it online without any trouble. It's not a cheat :cool:

Cheers/m

[VO101_Tom]

Hi guys.

I see the contacts as 2-3 pixel wide, small, grey dots. Not easy to see (as you read, I wrote 5 contacts, but there is another one, and a whole bomber squadron too), but it visible. I admit, from this distance this is a pixel-hunt.

The AA is an interesting thing. I don't use Anti Aliasing since IL-2, because when I turned on, I lost the contacts - mostly over ground). The game blurring the one pixel contacts into the background. Not good. Some of you wrote, that the CloD's FXAA improve his visibility... i will try it, but my experience, that every smoothing, blurring, etc effect only degrade the "one pixel contact" visibility.
Very important: The LCD monitors must be use in native resolution!
Increase monitor brightness and contrast helps*, but my mate said that he tried the dynamic contrast, but the screen flashed dimly. It is certainly not good.
Very important the ergonomy, sit an arm's length in front of the monitor.
* I'm tried to set the brightness-contrast 0-100. I saw the pixels all time, so if anyone simple don't see the pixels, that is an another problem then.

I don't know it helps or not, i write my monitor settings:
Samsung 226BW monitor, 1680x1050 native resolution.
Brightness 100
Contrast 75
Magicolor Off
Color Tone - normal
Color Control - 50-50-50
Gamma - mode3
Sharpness - 60
All other menu is indifferent, or "not available".

A small note at end: The contact visibility is the same, but the contact detection easier in the game, because the dots are moving. If you flying straight and don't move your head ("fixed the background"), you will see the contacts much easily than you see in a photo.

[klem]

Thanks Tom,

I have the same monitor as you and I made minor adjustments to my Custom settings to be like yours but it doesn't help me much. Not that it's a problem because I am happy with what I see in-game but I am curious about one thing because I can only see two of the dots if I look very carefully. So just for interest's sake, which LCD panel do you have in your 226BW? THere are three types A, B and C and the letter is on the top line of the label where it states the model and the LCD screen letter is on the far right of the line. Mine is C.

And no, I don't want to start a screen panel discussion here, I'm just curious :)

btw my Dynamic Contrast doesn't cause any flashing. It does adjust to a new level when I switch between applications as the monitor dynamically adjusts to the overall screen picture but not in-game.

[Storm of When]

1024 x 768 works for me ,it may be miles less than the monitor a 23" Samsung is capable of but I see things far earlier than when I ran at the monitors native setting.

[VO101_Tom]

Thanks Tom,

I have the same monitor as you and I made minor adjustments to my Custom settings to be like yours but it doesn't help me much. Not that it's a problem because I am happy with what I see in-game but I am curious about one thing because I can only see two of the dots if I look very carefully. So just for interest's sake, which LCD panel do you have in your 226BW? THere are three types A, B and C and the letter is on the top line of the label where it states the model and the LCD screen letter is on the far right of the line. Mine is C.

Model code: .../EDC

[VO101_Tom]

1024 x 768 works for me ,it may be miles less than the monitor a 23" Samsung is capable of but I see things far earlier than when I ran at the monitors native setting.

But you see bricks, not pixels :grin:

[ATAG_Snapper]

Not too long ago I was at the point of utter frustration in spotting distant contacts online. My mates on Teamspeak were calling them out long before I could discern them, including large AI bomber formations. It seemed like I was continually getting bounced by opposing fighters no matter how frequently I checked six. I tried the low resolution route and it does work -- but it's soooo UGLY which runs counter to the inherent beauty of the graphics which this sim offers. What to do?

I've read through Zapatista's excellent and very knowledgeable posts on monitors, and how their quality and setting can directly influence our ability to spot tiny dots on-screen. My take was that ironically the better your monitor the less likely a single pixel is likely to stand out from the others - by design! Similarly, graphical-smoothing effects like FSAA, FXAA, etc tend to BLEND the odd single pixel into the background....again by design.

A couple of things I've tried on my system (Asus 27" monitor, GTX 680 card):

I run at the monitor's native res: 1920 x 1080 @ 120 Hz, using adaptive Vsync with the latest Nvidia drivers.

I set FSAA in-game to 0

In the Nvidia Control panel I disabled FSAA and FXAA

I use SweetFX (using Les' "Neutral 6 setting)

Many monitors have their own menu settings which can be adjusted "on the fly" (pun intended) while actually playing Cliffs of Dover. I found that the otherwise-beautiful "theatre" setting actually was too saturated in rich colours and high contrast and hampered me in tracking targets, even close ones, against a dark early morning/late evening sky, not to mention terrain or ocean! In my case I simply flipped through the settings menu and settled on "standard". A little drabber than the "theatre" and "gamer" settings, but the increased dynamic visual range lightened up the shadows a lot and toned down the glaring mid day sky. I still lose an opponent in the sun, but can readily track the dot against the bright sky as he approaches the sun, then pick him up again after he's traversed it and emerges on the opposite side.

The trade off to the above is 1) a slight loss in richness of colours (which actually still looks very good with SweetFx), and 2) distant terrain is slightly jaggy/shimmery. However, these two downsides are offset by picking up opponents (and friendlies) at what I consider to be reasonably "normal" distances. Certainly early enough to avoid a bounce (if you diligently check 6 constantly....and it's not directly out of the sun). Also you can spot an adversary early enough to position yourself tactically, rather than always being on the defensive in a disadvantageous position.

Good luck!

[klem]

Model code: .../EDC

No. the line immediately above that. Mine reads

226BW [R] C

with quite a gap between the ] and the C

[vranac]

Model code: .../EDC

Samsung was putting 4 different panels in the same model of the monitor,226BW and newer models.

At first it was at the label after that they put it in the service menu.
In final they encoded panel producer.

The weeks went by and various versions remained. The manufacturer reacted however by removing the name of the panel maker and the reference from the hidden screen in October 2007! In its place: a long complex encoded number... but a few geeks quickly worked out the new code.

There is a secret service menu hidden away from the prying eyes of consumers. This service menu will contain the panel type most of the time. To access said panel, simply lower both the brightness and the contrast to 0 using the regular user control panel. Exit the menu, and then bring it back up again. After you have done this hold the source button down for 5 seconds. This will bring up the service menu.

http://img1.lesnumeriques.com/articles/553/web2(2519).jpg

xAx-xxxx : Samsung panel.
xLx-xxxx : AU Optronics panel.
xDx-xxxx : CMO panel.
xIx-xxxx : CPT panel.

Where Samsng panel is the best and CMO and CPT worst.

http://www.digitalversus.com/samsung-touching-hidden-menu-invalidates-warranty-a553.html

So its quite possible that you two have totaly different monitors.

[major_setback]

Enemy is spotted:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/spot2963413660_a529f3d967_b.jpg

[VO101_Tom]

Mine is "D"

[ATAG_Doc]

This photo shows a target rich environment.

http://i.imgur.com/l50Aj.jpg

[ATAG_Keller]

Hi. This question appears two weeks ago, when we flying on ATAG. My mates saw nothing, meantime I'm telling them the contacts. We take a closer look, and we found, that the problem was their MONITOR settings. Different monitor profiles, light and contrast, etc. I made a screenshot, you should see 5 contact (1 o clock, low):

(1680x1050 pixel, .bmp)
Contact test (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt.bmp)

Obvious, you have to see this picture in original size, without any zoom. Here is a little help (http://www.pumaszallas.hu/Private/Tom/forum_kepek/monitorteszt_help.bmp) if you don't find them.
If you see nothing, your monitor need adjust.


Excellent test Tom! As others have stated though you are missing 15 aircraft on the "help" image.

[VO101_Tom]

As others have stated though you are missing 15 aircraft on the "help" image.

Yes, thx, i know.

[ATAG_Colander]

20 to be exact :D

http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.com/tmp/Untitled.png

[Redroach]

I also had severe problems with spotting planes. I'm not talking about the LoD issue, where contacts suddenly disappear at a certain distance, but I didn't see contacts at all. The only times I actually saw something was the Me-109 zipping by after she's hit me...

It turned out that my so-so pc apparently wasn't capable of running CoD properly on my monitor's native resolution (1920*1080), without notifying me in any way - after setting the game to a lower resolution (1600 or 1400), I've seen much success with spotting planes, and keeping them in sight, lately.

[klem]

Samsung was putting 4 different panels in the same model of the monitor,226BW and newer models.

At first it was at the label after that they put it in the service menu.
In final they encoded panel producer.



There is a secret service menu hidden away from the prying eyes of consumers. This service menu will contain the panel type most of the time. To access said panel, simply lower both the brightness and the contrast to 0 using the regular user control panel. Exit the menu, and then bring it back up again. After you have done this hold the source button down for 5 seconds. This will bring up the service menu.

http://img1.lesnumeriques.com/articles/553/web2(2519).jpg

xAx-xxxx : Samsung panel.
xLx-xxxx : AU Optronics panel.
xDx-xxxx : CMO panel.
xIx-xxxx : CPT panel.

Where Samsng panel is the best and CMO and CPT worst.

http://www.digitalversus.com/samsung-touching-hidden-menu-invalidates-warranty-a553.html

So its quite possible that you two have totaly different monitors.

Yes, my service screen says Flt Panel: CMO220Z1
Code is ...BDA-xxxx

:(

I believe this C panel is the most used.

[Roblex]

Of course one thing nobody is mentioning is that in real life it *was* very hard to spot aircraft and nearly impossible to see anything against the ground. I have read three fighter pilot biogs in the last few months and they all mention how impossible it was to see anyone against the ground. They also mention whole squadrons failing to see enemy squadrons nearby and even cases of 109s accidently joining Spit formations and vice versa.

[klem]

Of course one thing nobody is mentioning is that in real life it *was* very hard to spot aircraft and nearly impossible to see anything against the ground. I have read three fighter pilot biogs in the last few months and they all mention how impossible it was to see anyone against the ground. They also mention whole squadrons failing to see enemy squadrons nearby and even cases of 109s accidently joining Spit formations and vice versa.

Which is why we need effective, timely, radar reports. By timely I don't mean reporting positions where they are 'now', there was a delay of a few minutes in getting info transmitted, but it needs to reflect hisorical radar range for Chain Home which reached to just beyond the Normandy coast and well inland at Cap Gris Nez. And that means giving height, direction and approx numbers too. Scripted radar reporting (often better than 'auto CoD reporting') should try to do that.

But I'm afraid we're getting OT.

[6S.Manu]

Of course one thing nobody is mentioning is that in real life it *was* very hard to spot aircraft and nearly impossible to see anything against the ground. I have read three fighter pilot biogs in the last few months and they all mention how impossible it was to see anyone against the ground. They also mention whole squadrons failing to see enemy squadrons nearby and even cases of 109s accidently joining Spit formations and vice versa.

Nobody said it because it's not true. Ask a real military pilot about it.

About it: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=AD0850688

[zapatista]

Of course one thing nobody is mentioning is that in real life it *was* very hard to spot aircraft and nearly impossible to see anything against the ground. I have read three fighter pilot biogs in the last few months and they all mention how impossible it was to see anyone against the ground. They also mention whole squadrons failing to see enemy squadrons nearby and even cases of 109s accidently joining Spit formations and vice versa.

its all about context and degrees, and what you are quoting is the exception not the norm.

its like somebody claiming the hard to detect enemy planes are due to their camouflage paint, they might be stating a relevant historical fact, but its context is totally disproportionate to the major visibility problems we have in CoD currently for spotting ground targets or detecting and maintaining visual contact with other aircraft in our vicinity (the SA bubble). the comparison can only be made by experienced individuals who have significant experience in real life of what it should really look like, and the extensive 1e person reports available from ww2 pilots. all of this confirms we currently have a MAJOR problem in CoD

currently in Cod (and a similar problem existed in the il2 series) we have about 30% of the visibility you would have from a normal cockpit, looking under good viewing conditions at a distant aircraft

and that problem has nothing to do with infrequent bad visibility conditions which under certain lighting or weather conditions make some objects occasionally hard to see in real life

[Bonkin]

OK so a quick update...

Just finished a session on ATAG and credited with 3 kills... a first for me in a very long time. I'm using FXAA Les Neutral6 settings and "Game" preset mode on my monitor. I'm fairly positive that with these settings - plus the earlier advice with respect to Steam Cloud, it is easier to spot the enemy at a a distance. Time will tell of course - but thanks to all contributors I think my enjoyment of the game has just stepped up a few levels. Cheers! :grin:

[SlipBall]

Good to hear...enjoy!

[jimbop]

Enemy is spotted:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/spot2963413660_a529f3d967_b.jpg
Lol, made me chuckle! Wish I could say the same about your Swedish weather.