Please start VAC online.

[ElAurens]

Title says it all.

Carry on.

[AirHog71]

I feel like a noob for asking but what is VAC?

[Red Dragon-DK]

I havent seen any indications of cheat.


But VAC is "Valve Anti-Cheat System" (VAC)

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=7849-Radz-6869

[Troll2k]

Is VAC a server side setting or does Steam have it on by default?

[AirHog71]

Ah ... thanks for the clarification fellas.

[David198502]

i dont think VAC is active and i think it never was to be honest...

i have definitely seen some strange things happening, and at least in one case im confident that it was a cheat...
and there are already youtube vids existing, showing cheats online....so its happening.

the reason i doubt, that VAC is activated is, that i heard nobody complain about beeing banned so far.not one person....while many use mods,...and some definitely use those mods online as well.
the next reason i dont think its active were all those beta patches....they were not downloaded via steam, but just a manual install,...changing the core files...shouldnt that be considered as cheat as well by the system?

but +1 to the OP,...get it activated!

[Robo.]

...changing the core files...shouldnt that be considered as cheat as well by the system?

I don't know how this system works but it might be comparing the server side files with the client's files and as long as they are not different everything is OK. (sort of like CRT=2 in Il-2).

[David198502]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68C1GoAH2gc


read the comments as well


btw,....this cheat, and no problem to get to altitude????and the devs do not manage it?

[Ataros]

VAC is a server side setting. Recently servers started to use it.

However VAC needs correct definitions to catch cheats. Please if you are concerned about cheaters and VAC contact Steam and inform them of some methods of changing game files (e.g. send them files from the mod section of the forums). If you did not inform Steam I am sure they will not be looking for CloD cheaters themselves. This is how Punkbuster works too: players report cheats to them and they add them to DB.

No point to post about VAC here IMO.

[David198502]

well ataros,...if you have an idea, why not start yourself and inform steam?
i for example have no clue how they do it, and i bet im not the only one...so in my opinion there is a point in discussing it here...

but on the other hand,...ive seen some threads, which refer to very good pilots and the suspicion of cheating....fact is, there are aces out there who will kill you within seconds, too fast that you realise what your mistake was...

[IvanK]

VAC is a server side setting. Recently servers started to use it.

However VAC needs correct definitions to catch cheats. Please if you are concerned about cheaters and VAC contact Steam and inform them of some methods of changing game files (e.g. send them files from the mod section of the forums). If you did not inform Steam I am sure they will not be looking for CloD cheaters themselves. This is how Punkbuster works too: players report cheats to them and they add them to DB.

No point to post about VAC here IMO.

So how do you know if a sever is running VAC ? How does a server set up VAC to run ?

[David198502]

when i looked in the conf.ini file to see whether i could get rid of the visibility-disappearing-bug, i saw that there is a line VAC=1

maybe thats how they do it?
but again thats strange, as it is set to 1 by default ever since,....and people were/are cheating online...

[major_setback]

but on the other hand,...ive seen some threads, which refer to very good pilots and the suspicion of cheating....fact is, there are aces out there who will kill you within seconds, too fast that you realise what your mistake was...



Yes. I haven't played CoD online yet, but I used to play FB/1946 online a lot. I never cheated, but was accused of it many times. If you play well, keep up your speed and energy and use height to build up power and have a good eye for a shot you can easily be called a cheat. People should be careful before they accuse someone of it. It is very unpleasant to be on the receiving end of such an accusation.

[David198502]

yeah ive been accused of cheating as well many times already in cliffs of dover...
its really unpleasant, as you cant really prove your victims wrong...especially when cheating is possible...

[Steuben]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68C1GoAH2gc


read the comments as well


btw,....this cheat, and no problem to get to altitude????and the devs do not manage it?

Exactly what i thought when i saw this!

[tintifaxl]

Looks like online play takes a hit, too. That's what I don't like about competitive online play - the cheaters turn up. And you can hardly, if ever catch the cautious ones, who only cheat very subtly.

[notafinger!]

For such a tiny community I highly doubt that anybody is cheating. The regulars who play often know what is possible and what is not. Part of the problem is most of the people who are accusing only fly the aircraft for one side, so they do not understand the capabilities of their opponents machines. Any multiplayer game there are people who will push the game to the absolute limit of what is possible, far beyond the understand or ability of the average player.

Also, I have played multiplayer games on Steam for a long time now and besides games developed by Valve (CS, TF2, L4D, etc..) I have not seen any indication that VAC is effective whatsoever. Red Orchestra had a small community and VAC enabled servers but nobody was ever caught by VAC even though we had known cheaters who were caught in competitive play by watching their demos. Even Valve games, where VAC should work, still aren't 100% protected. I played on a competitive TF2 team in several leagues and little did any of us know that our sniper was cheating. Not until after he head shot several cloaked spies in a match was he caught by the community, not VAC.

Anyway, there is like less than 200 players actively playing this game online. Cheating is not a problem currently but ignorance is.

[Robo.]

For such a tiny community I highly doubt that anybody is cheating. The regulars who play often know what is possible and what is not. Part of the problem is most of the people who are accusing only fly the aircraft for one side, so they do not understand the capabilities of their opponents machines. Any multiplayer game there are people who will push the game to the absolute limit of what is possible, far beyond the understand or ability of the average player.

Also, I have played multiplayer games on Steam for a long time now and besides games developed by Valve (CS, TF2, L4D, etc..) I have not seen any indication that VAC is effective whatsoever. Red Orchestra had a small community and VAC enabled servers but nobody was ever caught by VAC even though we had known cheaters who were caught in competitive play by watching their demos. Even Valve games, where VAC should work, still aren't 100% protected. I played on a competitive TF2 team in several leagues and little did any of us know that our sniper was cheating. Not until after he head shot several cloaked spies in a match was he caught by the community, not VAC.

Anyway, there is like less than 200 players actively playing this game online. Cheating is not a problem currently but ignorance is.

Well said mate.

[vranac]

For such a tiny community I highly doubt that anybody is cheating. The regulars who play often know what is possible and what is not. Part of the problem is most of the people who are accusing only fly the aircraft for one side, so they do not understand the capabilities of their opponents machines. Any multiplayer game there are people who will push the game to the absolute limit of what is possible, far beyond the understand or ability of the average player.

Also, I have played multiplayer games on Steam for a long time now and besides games developed by Valve (CS, TF2, L4D, etc..) I have not seen any indication that VAC is effective whatsoever. Red Orchestra had a small community and VAC enabled servers but nobody was ever caught by VAC even though we had known cheaters who were caught in competitive play by watching their demos. Even Valve games, where VAC should work, still aren't 100% protected. I played on a competitive TF2 team in several leagues and little did any of us know that our sniper was cheating. Not until after he head shot several cloaked spies in a match was he caught by the community, not VAC.

Anyway, there is like less than 200 players actively playing this game online. Cheating is not a problem currently but ignorance is.

+1

I never saw any cheating online.
Only thing I saw is the plane I was following start to go unrealistically faster and that is because disconnection from the server or the game crashed.

[Ataros]

So how do you know if a sever is running VAC ? How does a server set up VAC to run ?

It is set in confs.ini with VAC=1 line.

When you click on a server in server browser on the right hand you see server information. One line reads as "security" (in RU version at least) if server has VAC on.


but again thats strange, as it is set to 1 by default ever since,....and people were/are cheating online...

I have not seen any cheating. I think these are just pure rumors spread by people who do not fly every day for 3-5 hours and are shot down by those who do.

If VAC is not working properly and you see any cheating please contact Steam VAC team and ask them to address the issue.

[Ataros]

well ataros,...if you have an idea, why not start yourself and inform steam?
i for example have no clue how they do it, and i bet im not the only one...so in my opinion there is a point in discussing it here...

I have no idea and do not think cheating is a problem (yet). Those who do think it is should provide any proof and report it to Steam. E.g. someone in that thread http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=35197 mentioned he flew with 109 and Spit mods online with his 2nd account. Mods are posted on the forum in the Mods section. I replied in that thread that he should report this case to Steam if he wants it fixed. Anyone can try and do this if wants to, otherwise these discussions are only promoting cheating (as potential cheaters learn from them that they might be not caught) IMHO.

[David198502]

well you seem to ignore my posts, and what i was acutally saying....

the video i linked is a proof that it already happened, so its definitely not a pure rumour like you suggested...

i posted as well, that there are many false accusations, of people who just dont want to understand that there are better pilots out there than themselves...
so you are talking to the wrong guy here...

i fight almost on a daily bases most of the people who are suspected by some to cheat, and all i can say about them is, that they are just damn good pilots, and that its good fun to fight them...S! you russian aces :)

and furthermore, im also of the opinion, that its not a real problem like it is right now...
just like notafinger said,....ignorance is more of a problem than cheating right now.

[Ataros]

the video i linked is a proof that it already happened, so its definitely not a pure rumour like you suggested...

Sorry, did not watch the video, short of time a bit. Is it VAC protected server? What settings it has? Latest version? It could be a privately run modded server? If you have any info please report to Steam. I do not know the procedure but it should be the same for all Steam games.

Cheating was possible in Il-2 too for many years(although denied by MG) but all cheaters I have heard of were just good players. That is why I do not think it is a problem yet.

ATAG set VAC on only after recent patch IIRC.

[David198502]

well interesting that atag just activated it now with the recent patch....why didnt they do before?
because of the beta patches?

[addman]

Just because some people haven't seen any cheaters doesn't mean that there are none. Anti-cheating protection should be a top-priority in the future il-2 games, considering they'll probably will be primarily online oriented titles. Clod, as we all know, is a lost cause ATM.

[FFCW_Urizen]

How does VAC work?

Method 1:

The developer has to define Files safe and unsafe for modification, i.e. player and weaponskins in Counterstrike Source, which can be modified to the liking of the players and files that are unsafe, i.e. d3d8.dll. Now VAC runs a checksum comparison on those unsafe files, if they mismatch, a flag is raised in the system and the player is marked for ban.

Method 2:

Like Anti-Virus programs, it checks for known cheat signatures. If it finds an enabled cheat running or traces thereof in the ram, the player is marked for future ban. Furthermore, on VAC updates, known cheats will no longer work whilst being online, as VAC blocks them outright.

When will a cheater get banned?

VAC acts like an Attorney. It collects evidence to build a case. If it has collected enough, a cheater will be banned. It is not unheard of masses getting banned for cheating. It has always been a big deal in the communities.

Addendum: Method 1 is only used by VAC2, in CS1.6, modified OpenGL.dlls, were used widely, before the system was switched to VAC2.

S!

[AbortedMan]

Those that are denying that there are cheaters in CloD are burying their heads in the sand. In its current ability, cheats are happening online every day within CloD.

The fact that people are showing these cheats off while online is proof that they're not affected by any monitoring or control.

They're out there...right now. Not everyone, but the cheats are out there. Don't be stupid by denying it blindly.

[jermin]

There are only 2 kinds of people who will firmly deny the existence of cheaters if there does be.

One is the one who is not capable enough to tell the differences between cheaters and aces.

The other one is cheater itself.

[GF_Mastiff]

once again VAC does not Work! it's a placebo, it's there only for the nay sayers, to feel warm and fuzzy, while flying on line, no one is cheating in this game period. It's not possible VAC is working.. I know because it says VAC=1 in my conf.ini..

lol, go home sheep and get clipped!

[salmo]

For God's sake guys, give it a rest. Many of the posters here clearly have no clue what they're talking about, and fly into a panic just because they think someones "cheating" (whatever that means?).

http://www.artizans.com/images/previews/GRA392.pvw.jpg

[notafinger!]

There are only 2 kinds of people who will firmly deny the existence of cheaters if there does be.

One is the one who is not capable enough to tell the differences between cheaters and aces.

The other one is cheater itself.

Actually the two kinds of people are those who know they are crap pilots, like myself, and try to learn from every encounter and improve their flying. The other are those who think they are Manfred von Richthofen reincarnate and if they lose it's because the other guy was cheating.

[III/JG53_Don]

Actually the two kinds of people are those who know they are crap pilots, like myself, and try to learn from every encounter and improve their flying. The other are those who think they are Manfred von Richthofen reincarnate and if they lose it's because the other guy was cheating.

+1
there is a huge portion of truth in this statement
Besides if there are cheater in CloD right now I just have no idea, but when I fly online I never got to the idea that one opponent is suspiciously superior
I still live in my fantasy that our small community consists of honourable men and women who wants to be superior due to their flight skills and not due to their hacking skills! :-)

[ElAurens]

Then there are those of us who have been at this a long time and know something isn't correct when we see it.

Look, people denied that there was cheating in IL2 for years, all the while the code had been opened up and the clever "cheats" just carried on padding their and their squads stats all the while maintaining that cheating was not possible.

Now we know differently.

It's no different in CloD.

Only it was opened up to exploits far earlier than IL2 was.

And yes Don, that is a fantasy world sir.

[JTDawg]

Actually the two kinds of people are those who know they are crap pilots, like myself, and try to learn from every encounter and improve their flying. The other are those who think they are Manfred von Richthofen reincarnate and if they lose it's because the other guy was cheating.

I do agree to a point ;), ,I normally don't get involved with this bs , BUT m8 there are cheats on , just to show that i pay attention , your map, to begin with was a very close in plane sets, performance, speed etc , with really good dog fights etc.
Now after the patch an people know vac is not on or even working, we are right back to the same crap, Point , spit 1a was a very good match with e3, an could even catch the e3 ,(if you took your time ) e1 was easier ! At co alt an speed , we could catch you in the apex of your climb everytime an i mean every time !! Sure you could climb a tad higher ( this is not directed at you , but the blue players i see using this hack) .. NOW what we have is e3 that flys 30 to 50 mph faster then it did 2 weeks ago, THAT can climb at co alt an energy that extra 2 to 3000 feet or more than 2 weeks ago ! an can climb as high as it wants , only to roll over when they want , NOT to lack of speed, as does the fair player!!! The hacks that have been brought up in other threads do work !!! To say they don't is a bold faced lie !!
Your map was really great , as this map really shows the hack is back !!
I do understand the differance between a good pilot an 1 that is pulling B.S., tHEY STICK OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB DOING THE SURERMAN CLIMB, ,What we need is some of these script writers that know these hacks are being used , explain to steam how it is done, then maybe they will do something about it, till then it's a cheaters game !!!! The last patch brought many planes being closer to even speeds etc. now once again we are seeing the uber 109s back in town , not worried abit about a ban or loss of game, If there are 90 planes in game depending on time of day etc. will even split sides to 45 each side , now out of the 45 blue , I would bet a pay check 4 to 8 blue players are using this hack, SO 10 to 15% are using on a daily basis ,
So let's quit dening every body is clean a fair , they are not. To the smart guys that are fair an understand how they do it , help put a end to this very noticiable hack !!!!

[notafinger!]

So let's quit dening every body is clean a fair , they are not. To the smart guys that are fair an understand how they do it , help put a end to this very noticiable hack !!!!

If you believe that strongly then record tracks and submit to the server admins and have these people banned. Any action against will have to be from the community because I can assure you that nothing is going to happen with VAC.

[recoilfx]

I won't speak for others, but personally when the Spits got their performance back, i had a horrible time out climbing the Spit Ias

- HOWEVER - Recently i have figured out that climbing at 300kms is a lot better than my old 250kms. At this rate, Spits can not keep up AND i still have energy to do a vertical loop to turn this into a vertical fight.

Diving at sustained high speed (equalize boogie's max speed), then gentle climb at 300kms will usually leave the Spits behind.

It may be that other blue riders are figuring out the same thing...

[GF_Mastiff]

I won't speak for others, but personally when the Spits got their performance back, i had a horrible time out climbing the Spit Ias

- HOWEVER - Recently i have figured out that climbing at 300kms is a lot better than my old 250kms. At this rate, Spits can not keep up AND i still have energy to do a vertical loop to turn this into a vertical fight.

Diving at sustained high speed (equalize boogie's max speed), then gentle climb at 300kms will usually leave the Spits behind.

It may be that other blue riders are figuring out the same thing...

got there performance back eh? really? where?
we know its out there.

http://www.kegetys.fi/
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3265101/Performance_improvement_mod_s_.html#Post3265101
http://www.kegetys.fi/misc/


and I'm not seeing a gentle climb from those e3 and e1, your one of those magic climbers I have seen a lot of...
and know for a fact those e3, e1, do not climb like the E4...6,000 foot climb from a 0 stall in seconds..mmm wow!

All I see is the back of 109 e1, e3, and of course e4...

there is no biased in this game....

[recoilfx]

Do you really need me to split hair on the definition of getting performance back? The reds DID get their performance back in the last few patches, just not as much as some people may like...

Look... ATAG will ban anyone who is caught cheating. Get MSI Afterburner and RECORD anyone who is doing so. If it's 10-15% rate that JTDawg claims, it shouldn't take along for you guys to assemble the footage.


got there performance back eh? really? where?
we know its out there.

http://www.kegetys.fi/
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3265101/Performance_improvement_mod_s_.html#Post3265101

and I'm not seeing a gentle climb from those e3 and e1, your one of those magic climbers I have seen a lot of...
and know for a fact those e3, e1, do not climb like the E4...6,000 foot climb from a 0 stall in seconds..mmm wow!

All I see is the back of 109 e1, e3, and of course e4...

there is no biased in this game....

[David198502]

I do agree to a point ;), ,I normally don't get involved with this bs , BUT m8 there are cheats on , just to show that i pay attention , your map, to begin with was a very close in plane sets, performance, speed etc , with really good dog fights etc.
Now after the patch an people know vac is not on or even working, we are right back to the same crap, Point , spit 1a was a very good match with e3, an could even catch the e3 ,(if you took your time ) e1 was easier ! At co alt an speed , we could catch you in the apex of your climb everytime an i mean every time !! Sure you could climb a tad higher ( this is not directed at you , but the blue players i see using this hack) .. NOW what we have is e3 that flys 30 to 50 mph faster then it did 2 weeks ago, THAT can climb at co alt an energy that extra 2 to 3000 feet or more than 2 weeks ago ! an can climb as high as it wants , only to roll over when they want , NOT to lack of speed, as does the fair player!!! The hacks that have been brought up in other threads do work !!! To say they don't is a bold faced lie !!
Your map was really great , as this map really shows the hack is back !!
I do understand the differance between a good pilot an 1 that is pulling B.S., tHEY STICK OUT LIKE A SORE THUMB DOING THE SURERMAN CLIMB, ,What we need is some of these script writers that know these hacks are being used , explain to steam how it is done, then maybe they will do something about it, till then it's a cheaters game !!!! The last patch brought many planes being closer to even speeds etc. now once again we are seeing the uber 109s back in town , not worried abit about a ban or loss of game, If there are 90 planes in game depending on time of day etc. will even split sides to 45 each side , now out of the 45 blue , I would bet a pay check 4 to 8 blue players are using this hack, SO 10 to 15% are using on a daily basis ,
So let's quit dening every body is clean a fair , they are not. To the smart guys that are fair an understand how they do it , help put a end to this very noticiable hack !!!!

what exactly do you mean with this hack???

i can for example confidently say, that im no cheater, but at ~ equal energy i outclimb spits as well vertical....one just have to fly clean...
and as a pure 109 pilot, i do not notice a difference between the different 109models in climb performance...at least im able to outclimb RAF in all versions.

[Robo.]

got there performance back eh? really? where?
we know its out there.

http://www.kegetys.fi/
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3265101/Performance_improvement_mod_s_.html#Post3265101
http://www.kegetys.fi/misc/


and I'm not seeing a gentle climb from those e3 and e1, your one of those magic climbers I have seen a lot of...
and know for a fact those e3, e1, do not climb like the E4...6,000 foot climb from a 0 stall in seconds..mmm wow!

All I see is the back of 109 e1, e3, and of course e4...

there is no biased in this game....

I can do that in a 109, Am I a cheater, too? :grin:

[Catseye]

Actually the two kinds of people are those who know they are crap pilots, like myself, and try to learn from every encounter and improve their flying. The other are those who think they are Manfred von Richthofen reincarnate and if they lose it's because the other guy was cheating.

To me it doesn't matter if a person is a noob or an ace. Just checking the kill stats window inflight and watching numbers going up for certain pilots, to ridiculous figures within one hours flying time is enough to put up the yellow caution flags for me. This is repeated over and over.

Nobody is that good!

That they can have 14 kills within an hour while other very good pilots and well-known are around 3 or so. The statistics are important here. Heck, there isn't enough ammo on board for these numbers and not enough time to land and takeoff again to even find enough targets to initiate these numbers. Something is very amiss.

I've seen some pilots totaling up to 10 plus kills but they've been online for most of the day - not one hour and not necessarily repeatable.

I've been flying for many years and In my mind I'm convinced that there are good pilots out there that have some additional augmentation going on. The stats indicate that possibility.

I have no idea what these are because I do not spend any effort into looking at mods - not my style.

This is why IMHO that VAC needs to be turned on and active and the developers should have made it a part of their final delivery.

[JTDawg]

what exactly do you mean with this hack???

i can for example confidently say, that im no cheater, but at ~ equal energy i outclimb spits as well vertical....one just have to fly clean...
and as a pure 109 pilot, i do not notice a difference between the different 109models in climb performance...at least im able to outclimb RAF in all versions.
Hey m8 you are not even close to what i'm talking about, an i know you are not cheating! what i'm saying is in my post , so at co alt an speed, give or take a few miles an hour. say flying side by side at 260 270 mph, then we go vertical at say 4 tfpm an say i can climb 2500 or so before stall your trying to tell me a 109 can go up anouther 3000 4000 feet ? not possible , correct . this is what is being seen time an time again, these certain 109s defy all gravity. = they are using the speed hack, they are not stalling instead after climbing the extra 3or 4000 feet after they continue there climb in a lazy left or right turn to even get even higher , with no signs of stalling , drop a wing to tighter turn (more speed loss should happen) correct me if i'm wrong in what i'm seeing , is this is really possible ? good pilots can always figure out , how to get a little more speed =agree to get 30 to 50 mph no way no how.
to get a few hundred extra feet even 1000 agree not 3 to 4000 , this has nothing to do with zoom an boom tactics

[notafinger!]

To me it doesn't matter if a person is a noob or an ace. Just checking the kill stats window inflight and watching numbers going up for certain pilots, to ridiculous figures within one hours flying time is enough to put up the yellow caution flags for me. This is repeated over and over.

No body is that good!

That they can have 14 kills within an hour while other very good pilots and well-known are around 3 or so. The statistics are important here. Heck, there isn't enough ammo on board for these numbers and not enough time to land and takeoff again to even find enough targets to initiate these numbers. Something is very amiss.

I've seen some pilots totaling up to 10 plus kills but they've been online for most of the day - not one hour and not necessarily repeatable.

I've been flying for many years and In my mind I'm convinced that there are good pilots out there that have some additional augmentation going on. The stats indicate that possibility.

I have no idea what these are because I do not spend any effort into looking at mods - not my style.

This is why IMHO that VAC needs to be turned on and active and the developers should have made it a part of their final delivery.

I'm sorry to have to do this and please don't take personal offense. Read this article and maybe you will start to understand. This is a video game. The guy who plays it from a purely competitive mindset is approaching it completely different than the guy playing from simulation/history mindset. You play for fun/leisure, he plays for sport. The article will probably upset you but you should read it to the end.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

[David198502]

Hey m8 you are not even close to what i'm talking about, an i know you are not cheating! what i'm saying is in my post , so at co alt an speed, give or take a few miles an hour. say flying side by side at 260 270 mph, then we go vertical at say 4 tfpm an say i can climb 2500 or so before stall your trying to tell me a 109 can go up anouther 3000 4000 feet ? not possible , correct . this is what is being seen time an time again, these certain 109s defy all gravity. = they are using the speed hack, they are not stalling instead after climbing the extra 3or 4000 feet after they continue there climb in a lazy left or right turn to even get even higher , with no signs of stalling , drop a wing to tighter turn (more speed loss should happen) correct me if i'm wrong in what i'm seeing , is this is really possible ? good pilots can always figure out , how to get a little more speed =agree to get 30 to 50 mph no way no how.
to get a few hundred extra feet even 1000 agree not 3 to 4000 , this has nothing to do with zoom an boom tactics

ok fair enough, 3000feet do sound much...probably too much in such a situation...and you say you see many with this behaviour???
PS: hey dawg, look at our forums, there ive posted a thread, which may be connected to the issue you are describing....

[David198502]

To me it doesn't matter if a person is a noob or an ace. Just checking the kill stats window inflight and watching numbers going up for certain pilots, to ridiculous figures within one hours flying time is enough to put up the yellow caution flags for me. This is repeated over and over.

Nobody is that good!

That they can have 14 kills within an hour while other very good pilots and well-known are around 3 or so. The statistics are important here. Heck, there isn't enough ammo on board for these numbers and not enough time to land and takeoff again to even find enough targets to initiate these numbers. Something is very amiss.

I've seen some pilots totaling up to 10 plus kills but they've been online for most of the day - not one hour and not necessarily repeatable.

I've been flying for many years and In my mind I'm convinced that there are good pilots out there that have some additional augmentation going on. The stats indicate that possibility.

I have no idea what these are because I do not spend any effort into looking at mods - not my style.

This is why IMHO that VAC needs to be turned on and active and the developers should have made it a part of their final delivery.

sorry but that has nothing to do with cheating...
there are that good pilots, simple fact.

ive done 10kills in one sortie not only once, and i know that there are way better pilots out there...

and especially with the stats and how they work in clod, you can get really quick to very high kill numbers, as you only have to damage the plane slightly,....if the pilot then lands and the plane despawns, you will get credit for it....

[recoilfx]

I have >500hrs of CloD time, I have not seen one instance of cheating.....

It's also mostly the Red-only fliers that are making claims about cheating, which leads to me believe this is a FM issue. To the reds, the 109's are just too good at climbing?

[5./JG27.Farber]

Nobody is that good!

That they can have 14 kills within an hour while other very good pilots and well-known are around 3 or so.

Easy, go on ATAG and shoot down 14 bombers... I could easily shoot down that many on one trip especially if no escorts are around.

Alternatively vulch an airfield where people keep spawning.

Most of the better pilots dont do this because its not what they are there for, like myself. If I wanted to club seals I'd go for a holiday in Canada!

[JTDawg]

ok fair enough, 3000feet do sound much...probably too much in such a situation...and you say you see many with this behaviour???
PS: hey dawg, look at our forums, there ive posted a thread, which may be connected to the issue you are describing....

Salute m8 could not find link could you pm or post link please . with just 1000 hours in clod, (as of yesterday ) and flying the game almost since the start, say for instance last night 2 were using it , but numbers low 25 or so on server. one was on deck low straifing airfield concrete 1 on his second pass i dove on him i got e yay, by the time we got to grass base he was a spec before calis gone lost him an the best part i was at 4000 when started dive he was on second pass on base (so pretty sure he had to lose a tad of steam) not only should i have been able to catch him but over shoot him as well , agree ?

[JTDawg]

sorry but that has nothing to do with cheating...
there are that good pilots, simple fact.

ive done 10kills in one sortie not only once, and i know that there are way better pilots out there...

and especially with the stats and how they work in clod, you can get really quick to very high kill numbers, as you only have to damage the plane slightly,....if the pilot then lands and the plane despawns, you will get credit for it....

+1 XE-90 IN sow yesterday if i remember right heavy damage on 4or5 87s still shot down 3 +1 109 so on reg . server that would be 9 or 10 kills ,

[CaptainDoggles]

Nobody is that good!

That they can have 14 kills within an hour while other very good pilots and well-known are around 3 or so. The statistics are important here. Heck, there isn't enough ammo on board for these numbers and not enough time to land and takeoff again to even find enough targets to initiate these numbers. Something is very amiss.

I've seen some pilots totaling up to 10 plus kills but they've been online for most of the day - not one hour and not necessarily repeatable.

I've been flying for many years and In my mind I'm convinced that there are good pilots out there that have some additional augmentation going on. The stats indicate that possibility.

A few patches ago, when I was flying regularly and my kills were sharp, if I found some low-flying Red fighters I could easily get 5, maybe 6 kills in one sortie. Aiming was always my weakest point, and on a particularly "I'm shooting well today"-day I could get more than 6 in one sortie.

Bombers are a f***ing joke in this game: On ATAG there are those AI bomber flights that don't do evasives and fly nice, predictable routes. On some maps there used to be huge numbers of bombers, and the damage models are so bad in this game that I could shoot down a Blenheim or Wellington with only ~150 rounds of machine gun fire. No cannon required. Contrary to your claim, there is plenty of ammo in the 109, and even more in the 110.

I am/was an above-average pilot but still very far from the best. I'm not saying this to pump myself up; just to show how there are perfectly reasonable explanations. There are lots of guys out there who have put wayyy more time into the game than I have, and get proportionally better results than I do.

If you take into account AI bombers, 14 kills in one sortie doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility.

Honestly if I spent a week practising my aim and was very fuel-conservative I bet I could get 14 bomber kills in one 109 sortie, assuming the AI spawns cooperated.

There are a lot of really, really bad players flying this game, and it doesn't take much skill to sit around beating up on them.

[AbortedMan]

I'm sorry to have to do this and please don't take personal offense. Read this article and maybe you will start to understand. This is a video game. The guy who plays it from a purely competitive mindset is approaching it completely different than the guy playing from simulation/history mindset. You play for fun/leisure, he plays for sport. The article will probably upset you but you should read it to the end.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

No personal offense taken here, I understand your sentiment and what you're trying to say, no offense at all to you and your intelligence, but surely you cannot be that dense and believe that any aspect of online gaming on any platform is completely pure and devoid of the scum that are cheaters.

It's extremely possible in this game to cheat undetected with scripts and/or FM modifications, you have to admit that, because it's fact. Fact proven, explained, demonstrated and shown to a select few by ATAG members themselves...something to the tune of a 500-700mph aircraft in level flight on one of their test sessions. The smart cheaters don't make it blatantly obvious so they can get away with it and keep cheating. I wouldn't be surprised if there were lots of people using maphacks to get locations on enemy aircraft and nothing else...which is enough to skew the game drastically.

The first step towards doing something about cheaters is realizing there is a problem. I see no one here crying that they got shot down by a better pilot, but that they notice something is not right.

notafinger and others, do you need examples of hacks as proof that this happens everwhere and that it's not just a case of unmatched skills?...

Planetside 2 - Deemed unhackable at one point. Here is a video of a player using an aimbot and a maphack (that square map thing on the top isn't supposed to be there) that shows all locations of players. All possible by manipulating data while in RAM, where the cheat protection checks have already been passed through:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-B4gsBsKHk

Battlefield 3 - The hacks and cheats in this game are ridiculous and seemingly endless in their creativity. This video here shows my personal encounter with a cheater named dieselgreen. He was aimbotting, headshotting people with a sniper rifle while running and jumping while rapidly firing. All possible by manipulating data while in RAM, where the cheat protection checks have already been passed through:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C19YSeW4epU

IL2 1946 - Here's a ridiculous hack from 1946...the same engine that CloD is based on, mind you, meaning the same methods and tools can be used in CloD to produce the same effects if one were so technically inclined:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ9Pr_VRrzw

Please, don't be naive. Do not pass off suspicions as simple personal misjudgment of skills and ability, I'm confident that 99% of the active CloD crowd aren't those kind of people./

[vranac]

To me it doesn't matter if a person is a noob or an ace. Just checking the kill stats window inflight and watching numbers going up for certain pilots, to ridiculous figures within one hours flying time is enough to put up the yellow caution flags for me. This is repeated over and over.

Nobody is that good!

That they can have 14 kills within an hour while other very good pilots and well-known are around 3 or so. The statistics are important here. Heck, there isn't enough ammo on board for these numbers and not enough time to land and takeoff again to even find enough targets to initiate these numbers. Something is very amiss.

I've seen some pilots totaling up to 10 plus kills but they've been online for most of the day - not one hour and not necessarily repeatable.

I've been flying for many years and In my mind I'm convinced that there are good pilots out there that have some additional augmentation going on. The stats indicate that possibility.

I have no idea what these are because I do not spend any effort into looking at mods - not my style.

This is why IMHO that VAC needs to be turned on and active and the developers should have made it a part of their final delivery.

Week ago maybe my friend was flying on the blue side and killed 16 planes (spits and hurries) in 1 hour, then he changed for the red side and came on ATAG TS and continued to do the same.
Lot of pilots on the server and he used to go low on Manston and Hawkinge.
Target rich envirement.He didn't strafe he like to turn with spits.

Please give us some proof or stop accusing people.

I never saw anything suspicious.109 just have better zoom climb and can hang on engine much longer than spit and it is very stable even on zero speed.I was using that even against old super spitIIa and it worked most of the times.109 you can run on 2600 rpm and then it climbs better than on automatic prop pitch.

I just wonder why I never saw threads like this one or like weapons don't work ect. on the sukhoi forum and belive me there are a lot of very strong pilots there.

[notafinger!]

AbortedMan, you cannot seriously be comparing games like BF3 with huge online populations to the tiny, tiny online community of CloD. Every game has hacks, that is unavoidable. What I refuse to believe it is as rampant as some of you seem to believe. At most we are talking about one or two guys. Run fraps, catch the guy in the act, and show them to server admins.

[Catseye]

Easy, go on ATAG and shoot down 14 bombers... I could easily shoot down that many on one trip especially if no escorts are around.

Alternatively vulch an airfield where people keep spawning.

Most of the better pilots dont do this because its not what they are there for, like myself. If I wanted to club seals I'd go for a holiday in Canada!

The pilots I observe are not shooting bombers!!

[AbortedMan]

AbortedMan, you cannot seriously be comparing games like BF3 with huge online populations to the tiny, tiny online community of CloD. Every game has hacks, that is unavoidable. What I refuse to believe it is as rampant as some of you seem to believe. At most we are talking about one or two guys. Run fraps, catch the guy in the act, and show them to server admins.

Yes, I wholly agree, 1 or 2 guys at a time on the server during prime-time. I never meant to imply an entire side was cheating, sorry for not making that clear.

I just felt that some people's sentiment in this thread are under the impression that cheating is not possible or happening and wanted to educate/enlighten them a bit.

[AbortedMan]

The pilots I observe are not shooting bombers!!

Ditto. I was going to comment the same thing.

[Catseye]

I'm sorry to have to do this and please don't take personal offense. Read this article and maybe you will start to understand. This is a video game. The guy who plays it from a purely competitive mindset is approaching it completely different than the guy playing from simulation/history mindset. You play for fun/leisure, he plays for sport. The article will probably upset you but you should read it to the end.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

Not interested in comparing the different types of mindsets in gaming. I do know and I've been around enough to know that in this medium, there are no guarantees as to the honour of anyone competing.

That's why most good fliers are in squadrons with squadron etiquette and ROE in effect. Open public servers - no guarantee as to who you meet or fly against. There are some pretty big low-life people out there just as there is the opposite.

I stand by my observations of the odds of score accumulation taking into consideration all the facets of this sim.

Public servers - just like public chat rooms invite all types and without controls in place . . . . . will say no more.

As an aside, you don't really know what my mindset is in the gaming world.

Again, I draw your attention to the statistics of kills ratio and what is known to be doable by those, including me, who have been here a very very long time.

[Catseye]

Please give us some proof or stop accusing people.


Read my post again. I indicated that the numbers on kills by certain pilots are raising yellow flags.

That is not an accusation but a referral to some that there is something happening and it is not just due to the skill of the pilot itself.

Don't be so naive to believe that modifications do not take place. Regarding Russian pilots - there are many Western pilots just as good. Hmmmmm, I wonder why it seems that there is quite often a referral to Russian pilots being good and little referrals to Western pilots being good? The laws of averages do not apply like this so just possibly, just possibly, something is amiss?

[ATAG_Colander]

I for one, do not understand the purpose of this thread.
We all know that there are, and always will be, cheaters on ANY game. Having No-VAC, VAC, or even a server admin sitting next to each pilot will not stop it, only slow it.

Personally, I have not seen any indication of cheating but if there is 1 or 2 cheaters on prime time where there are 90 players, I will have a 2% chance of interacting with one and a 4% if counting only the opposite army.

This 4% does not keep me awake at night and I'm pretty sure they will eventually get tired of the game and move on. The ones that stay, will do because of the challenge and passion for the game, not because they need to increase a virtual counter of some kind.

The above does not mean that, if proof is submitted, the cheaters should not get a permanent ban from all servers.

My 2 cents.

Over and out.
Colander.

[AbortedMan]

Read my post again. I indicated that the numbers on kills by certain pilots are raising yellow flags.

That is not an accusation but a referral to some that there is something happening and it is not just due to the skill of the pilot itself.

Don't be so naive to believe that modifications do not take place. Regarding Russian pilots - there are many Western pilots just as good. Hmmmmm, I wonder why it seems that there is quite often a referral to Russian pilots being good and little referrals to Western pilots being good? The laws of averages do not apply like this so just possibly, just possibly, something is amiss?

Easy Cat, in my experience on these forums speaking in even the slightest blanket terms and broad generalities towards groups tends to get you in trouble.

[Ze-Jamz]

Ive said it over at Warclouds a long long time ago and il say it here....Take away the stats and your solve a lot of issues and not just issues with Cheating...

[ElAurens]

Agree.

Also having some sort of script that would dink the points of someone who regularly bails out rather then fly all the way back to France would go a long way towards making things more realistic, and fair for those of us who don't think of virtual flying as a football match.

[Ataros]

Hmmmmm, I wonder why it seems that there is quite often a referral to Russian pilots being good and little referrals to Western pilots being good? The laws of averages do not apply like this so just possibly, just possibly, something is amiss?

No, Russians just fly better in average (and I am not one of them btw).

You will be interested to learn a story of the greatest IL-2 cheater of all times =FB=vik-s and his friend =FB=Storm :) They were the worst cheaters known by community for 3 years after Il-2 launched. No one of the western community doubted that they cheat. Then they came to the Lowland TigerMeet 2003 LAN European Championship (http://www.lowlandtigermeet.com/) in the Netherlands and won it becoming official European champions. (VikS then became a part of RoF team and still "cheats". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pyaK4NtF4o))

If you have as long winters as we do here in Russia and nothing to do outside for most part of the year and no money to go to a pub or cinema you would spend as much time flying as many Russian guys do (all their off-work time basically).

If you loved WWII aviation as much as Russians do some of you would have created IL-2 series, not Oleg Maddox (most successful game studios are located in the west, but not avia-sim ones, aren't they?) For many this is not a game but life.

Use your brain to think why no one but Russian community organized this championship (2nd time already) http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33946 (won by none-russian btw) When you win the next one, you are allowed to call them cheaters. They will take it as a compliment btw.

Show a video proof from ATAG (just fly behind and film the guys you mean) or fhut up and stop being a nazi. This stinks. If you can not shoot down 5 noobs in 5 minutes it does not mean no one can ;) ...Here is a proof that cheaters exist for you.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haWIo9CCbGY&feature=plcp)

[JG52Krupi]

No, Russians just fly better in average (and I am not one of them btw).

You will be interested to learn a story of the greatest IL-2 cheater of all times =FB=vik-s and his friend =FB=Storm :) They were the worst cheaters known by community for 3 years after Il-2 launched. No one of the western community doubted that they cheat. Then they came to the Lowland TigerMeet 2003 LAN European Championship (http://www.lowlandtigermeet.com/) in the Netherlands and won it becoming official European champions.

If you have as long winters as we do here in Russia and nothing to do outside for most part of the year and no money to go to a pub or cinema you would spend as much time flying as many Russian guys do (all their off-work time basically).

If you loved WWII aviation as much as Russians do some of you would have created IL-2 series, not Oleg Maddox (most successful game studios are located in the west, but not avia-sim ones, aren't they?)

Use your brain to think why no one but Russian community organized this championship (2nd time already) http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33946 (won by none-russian btw) When you win the next one, you are allowed to call them cheaters. They will take it as a compliment btw.

Show a video proof from ATAG (just fly behind and film the guys you mean) or fhut up and stop being a nazi. This stinks. If you can not shoot down 5 noobs in 5 minutes it does not mean no one can ;) ...Here is a proof that cheaters exist for you.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haWIo9CCbGY&feature=plcp)

Today for the first time I was told about MR X convergence setup and as a result got quite a few kills :D

Kudos to Mr X, great pilot unfortunately for blue he is now found frequenting a spit :evil:

;)

[arthursmedley]

Ive said it over at Warclouds a long long time ago and il say it here....Take away the stats and your solve a lot of issues and not just issues with Cheating...

Couldn't agree more.

[CaptainDoggles]

lol.... there are a LOT of folks in this thread who don't know how steam works.

Ask yourselves this:

Why do games like TF2 and Counterstrike update themselves so frequently?

[IvanK]

And what exactly is Mr X convergence setup ?

[SNAFU]

No, Russians just fly better in average (and I am not one of them btw).


Ataros, give it up. ;) In old 1946 the western and eastern communities didn´t mix up that much as now in CloD, where there are only 2 servers available. So many westerners experience the eastern-sportmanship in WWII sims the first time and are confused.

It`s human behavior. Tell a kid there is a peanut foul in his basket, and it will turn around every nut 3 times and claim every irregularity as a foul nut. Suddenly all the nuts are foul not just a single one. ;)

I couldn´t believe it either, when I saw the first time how some guys really train - I mean really train and train hard in a computer game... but hey they do. :cool:

[Ataros]

This guy took 2nd place in the Gladiators 1vs1 championship. Can anyone beat his time? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgqQGqzuPkA&feature=youtu.be

The missions can be downloaded here http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=469016

[*Buzzsaw*]

No, Russians just fly better in average (and I am not one of them btw).

You will be interested to learn a story of the greatest IL-2 cheater of all times =FB=vik-s and his friend =FB=Storm :) They were the worst cheaters known by community for 3 years after Il-2 launched. No one of the western community doubted that they cheat. Then they came to the Lowland TigerMeet 2003 LAN European Championship (http://www.lowlandtigermeet.com/) in the Netherlands and won it becoming official European champions. (VikS then became a part of RoF team and still "cheats". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pyaK4NtF4o))

If you have as long winters as we do here in Russia and nothing to do outside for most part of the year and no money to go to a pub or cinema you would spend as much time flying as many Russian guys do (all their off-work time basically).

If you loved WWII aviation as much as Russians do some of you would have created IL-2 series, not Oleg Maddox (most successful game studios are located in the west, but not avia-sim ones, aren't they?) For many this is not a game but life.

Use your brain to think why no one but Russian community organized this championship (2nd time already) http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33946 (won by none-russian btw) When you win the next one, you are allowed to call them cheaters. They will take it as a compliment btw.

Show a video proof from ATAG (just fly behind and film the guys you mean) or fhut up and stop being a nazi. This stinks. If you can not shoot down 5 noobs in 5 minutes it does not mean no one can ;) ...Here is a proof that cheaters exist for you.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haWIo9CCbGY&feature=plcp)

Salute Ataros

With all due respect to Russian pilots, who undoubtably train hard to succeed, and without any implication that they are guilty of any breachs:

1) The facts are, there were hacks and hackers in the IL-2 1946 community, that was exactly the reason Oleg Maddox added the anti-cheat program to the game mid way through its production.

2) Hacks are a part of almost every competitive online game, there is no reason not to believe CoD has not been targeted.

3) There are players who have posted their own experiences observing players in CoD who deliberated loaded mods then flew with them in online servers.

Now whether or not we are seeing widespread hacking is another question. Personally I think many of the odd experiences some players are having online are more often a function of the poor modelling of the game, rather than hacking.

For example, it is clear that the game 109's have a considerable advantages in climb and speed at altitudes between approx. 12,000 and 20,000 ft, more than historical. If a player in a Spitfire finds his opponent easily zooming above him at these altitudes, that should come as no surprise. On the other hand, under 10,000 ft, players should not be observing 109's easily zooming above Spitfires as a regular occurrence. At lower altitudes, the game's 109's have no significant climb or speed advantages over the 100 octane fueled Spitfires. In my experience, a 109 pilot will have perhaps two or three opportunities to use dive and zoom attacks before he finds himself losing his e advantage. And Spitfires entering combat with equal E should have no problem in following a 109's vertical maneuvers.

On a related issue, we have had a lot of players complaining about the large number of pilot kills obtained by some German pilots. Again, this may be a function of the poor game modelling rather than hacking. It is clear pilot kills are more easily obtained when using the SmK (H) Tungsten round in the 109's 7.92mm weapons. The way this round is modelled, (ie. with seeming laser like penetration through fuselage and armour) and its non-historical unlimited availability has given Blue players who have worked hard to improve their accuracy, big advantages over Red players using British light Machine Gun ammunition.

I think it is important for everyone to consider carefully the facts, and make objective evaluations before jumping to conclusions.

It is also important that Server operators make sure they enable VAC, as well, anyone with well founded suspicions, should report those to the Steam authorities.

[IvanK]

All very well bit IS VAC actually operating in CLOD at all ? A previous post indicated that the devs had to determine which files needed to be checked .. i.e establish a VAC signature and get this activated by STEAM. Has this been done ? Is their a way to determine this ? So far I dont think we have heard of a single case of someone being banned.

There is more to it I think than just the Host setting VAC=1 in the confs.ini

[ATAG_Colander]

And because of the way VAC works, a ban might come in a few months as is not an immediate thing.

[FFCW_Urizen]

And because of the way VAC works, a ban might come in a few months as is not an immediate thing.

As explained, a one time cheater is unlikely to get banned. Such a cheater is more likely to get banned by a server admin than by VAC. However, players abusing cheats will most likely get banned within a month, as their "board" shows one red flag after another. And for cheaters in CloD. I have seen some strange things on both sides of the fence, but i wouldn´t go as far as calling those cheaters. I attribute those occurences to lag and lag only. Heck, i even tangled with a 109 once and whilst his shots were miles off, he still totally damaged my plane, because in his "game", he was on target.

S!