The future of IL2CoD/BoM..

[adonys]

what baffles me, and should actually baffle you all, though I never saw anyone opening this topic, is why can't we get future updates on the IL2CoD engine IF the same engine is used into IL2BoM?

as they are developing the engine further on, it would have been simple to release patches for IL2CoD just upgrading the engine (RadioComms, AI, Weather, dots/LODs/visibility, etc)..

why they won't do such a thing?

I can only see two answers, and frankly both of them are deeply upsetting: they either won't use the same engine, or they just don't want to give those patches, as an enforcement to buy BoM. which all of us would have bought anyway..

[theOden]

..why can't we get future updates on the IL2CoD engine IF the same engine is used into IL2BoM?
...

They need your money.

On the other hand, so does Bohemia but they still patch old ArmA2 for users not moving onto Arrowhead.
(we even got a patch 1.99 the other day for good'ole OFP anno 2001)

Effect is, I buy double copies of ArmA even if not really interested (arrowhead) but will wait for bargain bin for the magic "sequel".

In this business I think your history weighs way more than any expensive advertisment campaign. As such, for Maddox/1C I honestly think cost put into Dover is way more efficient in selling sequels compared to ads or whatever else.

But I've been wrong before.

[Feathered_IV]

The engine is still a bit of a bust overall and will be rewritten yet again.

[Anders_And]

The engine is still a bit of a bust overall and will be rewritten yet again.

You know this or are you just speculating?!? No attack intended. Just wondering...

[Storm of When]

I thought along the same lines that perhaps the best way to test if something had been fixed prior to the sequal would be to unleash it on CloD and let us lot rip it to shreds. In all honesty I`m prepared to wait, I certainly won`t get deeply upset which is melodramatic to say the least, since the last couple of patches I`m happy they`re going in the right direction, stirring up more conflict on the back of a complete guess as to what`s happening has happened far too often here, and i`ve been guilty of that as well.....time to look forward and move on.

[grawl]

The thing is releasing a patch costs money to the dev studio.
It is always a question in application development, "should we pay more and get some features ready for the production, or wait and get all of them in a bundle later for cheaper?".
They also need to take on their dev time to integrate the new features for a patch.
It is not shocking me at all that the devs mood now is "let's put all funds on development for now", as their funding base does not seem very large.

To make it short : better use money to pay developpers than testers for now. I don't feel ripped off, now that the game is enjoyable (even on my very low bad config)

config :
8Go DDR (using a ramdrive btw, greatly helps with stutters/texture-loading)
GeForce 220 GTS 1Go
Intel whatever quad core (not sure about the Mhz)

I played every new version from the beginning, and could'nt help but see the situation get better and better for me (from stuttery unplayable CTDesque to a quite stable and solid 20-30fps over land). Even online is playable now for me !(even if I ALWAYS got shot :D lol )

- Objects and textures on high.
- Effects, terrain, buildings on medium.
- Trees, land shading on low
- Roads on
- Shadows, Grass, AA, SSAO, AE filter off

[Slipstream2012]

what baffles me, and should actually baffle you all, though I never saw anyone opening this topic, is why can't we get future updates on the IL2CoD engine IF the same engine is used into IL2BoM?

as they are developing the engine further on, it would have been simple to release patches for IL2CoD just upgrading the engine (RadioComms, AI, Weather, dots/LODs/visibility, etc)..

why they won't do such a thing?

I can only see two answers, and frankly both of them are deeply upsetting: they either won't use the same engine, or they just don't want to give those patches, as an enforcement to buy BoM. which all of us would have bought anyway..

So if you were gonna by BoM anyway, why the post?

They are running a business, and its the same as its always been, they release a game, patch it (though admittedly its usually more than a few patches), then release a sequel which moves the game on, but also updates the original content. Then it will be patched and the cycle begins again.

They are expecting their long term customers to by BoM & they are depending on it, because if they don't there wont be anymore IL2.

I don't see why them using a different game engine upsets you, the current engine has a ton of problems, one of which is that you can't get a plane to work by the book at higher altitudes, if it can even get there, which many can't, and there are many more.

I think that BoM will give everyone a nice surprise & will be everything that CoD should of been. Here's hoping!

[adonys]

maybe you need to re-read the initial post..

I was talking about engine updates only, if the same engine is used in BoM, why restrain engine only code updates from customers of CoD?!! there's no point in that: no, it wouldn't cost more (you'll just have to dump the latest stable development releases ad throw them online), you'll get a free betatesters base, you'll continue support and improvements for the porked CoD, you gain the goodwill of community by providing them newer improved versions until BoM will be out (which is the most important think actually), etc etc..

I also can not think they're so stupid to think that this is the only way to force current CoD customers to actually bug BoM, as most of us would buy BoM nevertheless.

So, the only fitting answer would be that the BoM has a different code, which was branched from CoD at least some while ago.. if not entirely new one..

[BigC208]

maybe you need to re-read the initial post..

I was talking about engine updates only, if the same engine is used in BoM, why restrain engine only code updates from customers of CoD?!! there's no point in that: no, it wouldn't cost more (you'll just have to dump the latest stable development releases ad throw them online), you'll get a free betatesters base, you'll continue support and improvements for the porked CoD, you gain the goodwill of community by providing them newer improved versions until BoM will be out (which is the most important think actually), etc etc..

I also can not think they're so stupid to think that this is the only way to force current CoD customers to actually bug BoM, as most of us would buy BoM nevertheless.

So, the only fitting answer would be that the BoM has a different code, which was branched from CoD at least some while ago.. if not entirely new one..

I posted the following a few weeks ago and got a lot the same replies you got, no time no people, no money.

I know they're done with updates for CloD. What I do hope though is this. When they get close to release date, use CloD as beta test material,(minus BoM specific content).There are allready so many CloD users out there. This way they don't have to invent the wheel twice. We get free updates, they get free feedback and CloD stays on everyone's radar screen. Becoming more relevant with each update. Make it non steam downloadable content so we have a choice. If CloD's remaining problems get adressed over time, before BoM release, there will be coninued interest and increased sales of CloD. This will result in a bigger group of potential BoM buyers when it's ready.

[Storm of When]

"So, the only fitting answer would be that the BoM has a different code, which was branched from CoD at least some while ago.. if not entirely new one"

Hilarious how you can draw conclusions which appear to satisfy your need for an answer, be it any answer from little or no evidence. I don`t care if they are re-inventing the wheel as long as when I pay for it it`s round and rolls.

[Pegasus_Eagle]

with some coders making stuff that was never in game pop up on your screen.

who knows what else there doing to your game i think atag has gone to far with this server end modding and scripting.

its getting way out of hand this will be the doom of clod scripting like this. :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

the ATAG adon .dll has this kind of permission

BAD VERRRRY BAD

[mazex]

what baffles me, and should actually baffle you all, though I never saw anyone opening this topic, is why can't we get future updates on the IL2CoD engine IF the same engine is used into IL2BoM?

as they are developing the engine further on, it would have been simple to release patches for IL2CoD just upgrading the engine (RadioComms, AI, Weather, dots/LODs/visibility, etc)..

why they won't do such a thing?

I can only see two answers, and frankly both of them are deeply upsetting: they either won't use the same engine, or they just don't want to give those patches, as an enforcement to buy BoM. which all of us would have bought anyway..

Just my thoughts... I think that they now start to change the current engine so that it's no longer compatible with the launcher and settings for CloD etc. When they are doing that the maps and planes from CloD will still work, but not the current crappy GUI/Launcher will not.

At some point they need to make a break with the old stuff and move on. That does not mean the core engine is replaced.

/mazex

[David Hayward]

what baffles me, and should actually baffle you all, though I never saw anyone opening this topic, is why can't we get future updates on the IL2CoD engine IF the same engine is used into IL2BoM?

as they are developing the engine further on, it would have been simple to release patches for IL2CoD just upgrading the engine (RadioComms, AI, Weather, dots/LODs/visibility, etc)..

why they won't do such a thing?

I can only see two answers, and frankly both of them are deeply upsetting: they either won't use the same engine, or they just don't want to give those patches, as an enforcement to buy BoM. which all of us would have bought anyway..

How many years of programming experience do you have?

[Chivas]

Its still possible they could provide another patch for COD before the release of the Sequel, but I wouldn't hold my breath. There is no conspiracy here, its just a development that really needs another injection of cash as soon as possible, which means ALL efforts MUST be toward the Sequel.

There is no possibility they are building a new game engine, but the engine may have to be adjusted as they finish and add new features to the Sequel. Their jobs and the new series depend on this Sequel being a success.

Most people will probably wait to see trusted reviews before buying their product this time. That is not a problem for the development, whether or not they eventually buy is the problem. The majority will buy if they like what they see, if not the series dies, thru no ones fault but the developers.

That said the prognosis is good. The developers finally have a basicly working sim and another year or two of work should make the sim more of what we expecting with the initial release. Now that the game engine is more stable, Nvidia can finally take the sim into account with their drivers, not to mention the progress in PC's and any upgrades we make in in the future.

They really need to adjust the AI/commands, SpeedTree/collision, Shadow/flicker, Cloud/particles, GUI, and add the map SDK so people can improve the Channel map. They have atleast another year to get alot of that done.

[RickRuski]

Luthier had hinted earlier that the sequel would be based on a new engine because the current one was not suitable going forward. There were too many problems with it that they couldn't resolve, therefore the sequels won't be backwards compatible but content from C.o.D would be included in the sequels (as in 1946 etc).

Can't see where the confusion is myself, there have been enough statements and information from Luthier confirming that the sequel will be based on a new engine, that is why C.o.D. development has ceased.

If the new engine is succesful then we may see future expansion become a merge capable series as in Forgotten Battles, AEP, Pacific Fighters etc.

[SlipBall]

Besides people trying to run the release with an inadequate system, or a you tube running at the same time.:-P The game got a bad rap!...I have a earlier edition that I play off line, and I can tell you that it is trouble free. I've said it before but, Steam was much of the early problems with the game. Steam has had many updates to itself since, and that is why my early vershion runs so well, a real sad shame.

[Chivas]

Luthier had hinted earlier that the sequel would be based on a new engine because the current one was not suitable going forward. There were too many problems with it that they couldn't resolve, therefore the sequels won't be backwards compatible but content from C.o.D would be included in the sequels (as in 1946 etc).

Can't see where the confusion is myself, there have been enough statements and information from Luthier confirming that the sequel will be based on a new engine, that is why C.o.D. development has ceased.

If the new engine is succesful then we may see future expansion become a merge capable series as in Forgotten Battles, AEP, Pacific Fighters etc.

Luthier has never said they would be building a new game engine for the Sequel. There is no chance in H#ll they will be building a new game engine for the Sequel, as it took many years to build the existing one. They barely have time to optimize the existing game engine, fix/add features, and provide content for Sequels release.

[Feathered_IV]

They would most certainly pull the existing one apart and use what they can. It would be foolhardy to plan the rest of the series around the current engine which still is loaded with unoptimised, incomplete and faulty features.

Btw is DX9 still number one priority?

[ATAG_Keller]

with some coders making stuff that was never in game pop up on your screen.

who knows what else there doing to your game i think atag has gone to far with this server end modding and scripting.

its getting way out of hand this will be the doom of clod scripting like this. :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

the ATAG adon .dll has this kind of permission

BAD VERRRRY BAD

If you don't appreciate the hard work that went into providing us with a detailed damage report then you could always just not fly on the ATAG server.

[ATAG_Doc]

Sniper is back to his old self again.

[ATAG_Colander]

That screenshot shows nothing more than the permissions of a file in your computer.
A) The permissions the file has only indicate what YOU as a user can do on the file. In no way it indicates what the file can do to you.
B) Every file in that folder has the same permissions, unless manually changed by you, the user.

I can assure everyone that ATAG does not install viruses, steal any information or cause any wrong to any of the pilots that join our server. We gain nothing by doing so, and we will not even think of doing such a thing, not even to people that looks for any excuse to attack us.

Sincerely,
ATAG_Colander.

End of statement as ATAG.

Begin of statement as Colander.

To Pegasus_Eagle/Sniper,

Why would someone that dislikes and attacks ATAG so much joined the ATAG server to play?
What will be the next thread about? That the ATAG Teamspeak server is recording what you say to use it against you? That there are too many players from X country and that's bad for the community so ATAG should ban them all?
Can't wait for the next excuse for a sad attempt to make ATAG look bad, sincerely, I find it more amusing than annoying :)

[CaptainDoggles]

... what is this custom dll and where can I get it?

[ATAG_Doc]

That screenshot shows nothing more than the permissions of a file in your computer.
A) The permissions the file has only indicate what YOU as a user can do on the file. In no way it indicates what the file can do to you.
B) Every file in that folder has the same permissions, unless manually changed by you, the user.

I can assure everyone that ATAG does not install viruses, steal any information or cause any wrong to any of the pilots that join our server. We gain nothing by doing so, and we will not even think of doing such a thing, not even to people that looks for any excuse to attack us.

Sincerely,
ATAG_Colander.

End of statement as ATAG.

Begin of statement as Colander.

To Pegasus_Eagle/Sniper,

Why would someone that dislikes and attacks ATAG so much joined the ATAG server to play?
What will be the next thread about? That the ATAG Teamspeak server is recording what you say to use it against you? That there are too many players from X country and that's bad for the community so ATAG should ban them all?
Can't wait for the next excuse for a sad attempt to make ATAG look bad, sincerely, I find it more amusing than annoying :)


He wont get it.

[=CfC= Father Ted]

In the end, practically anyone who was going to buy CloD has now done so. For a lot of those people the game doesn't really work. In order to try to rectify this the devs have to pay people to repeatedly fix it, yet they'll get no more income from doing this, so they're losing money.

The only way they can try to make money from the investment in the game engine is to sell another game, ie BoM. So they cut their losses with CLoD and put their energies into BoM.

IMHO this is a mistake as the client-base for BoM will surely be pretty much the same as that for ClOD and not many of us will now want to jump straight in to BoM without being shown that it works - ie that CloD can be made to work.

[Chivas]

In the end, practically anyone who was going to buy CloD has now done so. For a lot of those people the game doesn't really work. In order to try to rectify this the devs have to pay people to repeatedly fix it, yet they'll get no more income from doing this, so they're losing money.

The only way they can try to make money from the investment in the game engine is to sell another game, ie BoM. So they cut their losses with CLoD and put their energies into BoM.

IMHO this is a mistake as the client-base for BoM will surely be pretty much the same as that for ClOD and not many of us will now want to jump straight in to BoM without being shown that it works - ie that CloD can be made to work.

Its not a mistake its the only course of action possible. Your right there will be no further income from COD, so working on that is a waste of time. You have to remember almost everything they fix to make the Sequel playable, will also make the Channel map playable. Your also right most people will not buy the Sequel until they're sure things are much better. The development/publisher don't have to see big sales on the day its released, but they better be d#mn good after people read the reviews and forum posts of users who did buy.

[LukeFF]

I just don't see what type of future this title has with all the development problems have been encountered so far. I do hope they work things out, but at this point I'm not really optimistic.

[Insuber]

with some coders making stuff that was never in game pop up on your screen.

who knows what else there doing to your game i think atag has gone to far with this server end modding and scripting.

its getting way out of hand this will be the doom of clod scripting like this. :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

the ATAG adon .dll has this kind of permission

BAD VERRRRY BAD

And that's nothing! ATAG is recording all the TeamSpeak conversations to use them against you!!! Beware they are VERRRRRRY VERRRRRRRRY BAD!
END SARCASTIC MODE

My friend I think you are nuts, better you find a psi ... a good one. ATAG saved CloD, IMHO.

Cheers!

[Slipstream2012]

Can't wait for the next excuse for a sad attempt to make ATAG look bad, sincerely, I find it more amusing than annoying :)

No-one can make ATAG look bad, everyone knows about the support ATAG has given to this community. If they create something, like the Level Bombing Companion, or video tutorials, they are not just restricted to the ATAG members or people registered to the forums. They are posted here so that the whole community can benefit.

The servers have had thousands of hours of work put into them to make them run as smooth as possible, all for the enjoyment & support of the community.
If anyone needs help with Clod there are always ATAG members and regulars willing to take time to help out, for instance I've seen ATAG members flying a bomber and instructing someone on how to use the sight.

The community ranges from many squadrons, lonewolfs, people with connections to the devs, and probably devs themselves at some point.

With a huge reputation like that on our shoulders, we are not going to be interfering with peoples computers, and even if we didn't have a reputation, the members and the regular community are top class people who enjoy nothing more than helping people get the the most out of IL2 Cliffs Of Dover and providing them with some interesting tools to enhance their experience.

Unlike some sad forum troll who has never done anything for the community & has nothing else to do with their life except post a capture of a permissions dialog box that anyone can find by right-clicking any .exe file.

You really do need to get a life Pegasus_Eagle :rolleyes:

ATAG_Slipstream

[Toni74]

best would be to start BoM with a new name like Storm of War or something else. The Il-2 name is in community still the synonym for the "old" FB/PF/46 series. CloD wasn't a worthy successor of the old series, it even have done more damage to it.

[macro]

O noes i cant find my tin foil hat and joystick protector to stop atag stealing it!!!!


What do i do????

Iv asked the king of the potato people for a replacement but he said im on stop as not paid for my last one!

[vranac]

No-one can make ATAG look bad, everyone knows about the support ATAG has given to this community. If they create something, like the Level Bombing Companion, or video tutorials, they are not just restricted to the ATAG members or people registered to the forums. They are posted here so that the whole community can benefit.

The servers have had thousands of hours of work put into them to make them run as smooth as possible, all for the enjoyment & support of the community.
If anyone needs help with Clod there are always ATAG members and regulars willing to take time to help out, for instance I've seen ATAG members flying a bomber and instructing someone on how to use the sight.

The community ranges from many squadrons, lonewolfs, people with connections to the devs, and probably devs themselves at some point.

With a huge reputation like that on our shoulders, we are not going to be interfering with peoples computers, and even if we didn't have a reputation, the members and the regular community are top class people who enjoy nothing more than helping people get the the most out of IL2 Cliffs Of Dover and providing them with some interesting tools to enhance their experience.

Unlike some sad forum troll who has never done anything for the community & has nothing else to do with their life except post a capture of a permissions dialog box that anyone can find by right-clicking any .exe file.

You really do need to get a life Pegasus_Eagle :rolleyes:

ATAG_Slipstream

+1

Thank you ATAG guys for great work and improvements like bombing tool, track editor and stats.