Forcefeedback or no force feedback..?

[capt vertigo]

That is the question..

My aging MS FFB 2 has lost its' trigger button and I am thinking of getting a new stick..

I really like the CH Products, as I have the throttle, but am I gonna miss the ffb effects..!?!

Any of u guys faced this dilemma..?

Thx

Vertigo

[Continu0]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=18547

You might want to give it a try and report your experiences here?....;-)

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

The contact points on your stick trigger probably just need cleaning, you might not have to give up on it yet.

[Forged]

But if your MSFFB2 truly is dead, and you do try the paccus hawk, let us know how it goes! haha :)

Ok, on a serious note - I personally really prefer force feedback, enough that I plan on putting my CH fighterstick grip onto the MSFFB2 base. No time to do so at the moment :(. Have you thought of doing that? Keep using your MSFFB2 base, and switching the grip for a much more functional one?

I really like the fighterstick, but I also wouldn't want to give up the FFB. I think it really lets you know what's going on with your plane, and that's pretty valuable information.

[Troll2k]

Digikey has replacement Switches for the trigger and other buttons.

A long time ago someone posted the part numbers.I wrote them down.If I can read what I wrote here they are.

I have not verified any of these.I only put the info in my archives.

Trigger Omron B3M-6009 http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=0&y=0&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=omron+b3m-6009

Hat(4 pieces) Omron B3F-3122 (150g) http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&keywords=omron%20b3f-3122&x=0&y=0&cur=USD

Switches 2-4 Omron B3F-1002(150g) http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&keywords=omron%20b3f-1002&x=0&y=0&cur=USD

Base Omron B3F-1002(150g) http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?WT.z_header=search_go&lang=en&keywords=omron%20b3f-1002&x=0&y=0&cur=USD

[AirHog71]

Logitech G940?

I've had mine since release and love it.

[AbortedMan]

Logitech G940?

I've had mine since release and love it.

Seconded.

[Forged]

The g940 - I think it's being discontinued, but you can still find it around. (Logitech doesn't sell it on their website anymore, last I checked. Neither do other online retailers except for insane prices... but I could be wrong! :) )

I have a few questions for you g940 users...

When you use it on a lower FFB setting, does the "graveliness" go away? Out of the box it was difficult to move around in a smooth manner - it "ratcheted" when moving. Or, put another way, it had a "graveliness" to it. I took mine back after finding this very annoying and it destroyed my aiming.

Have you used the MSFFB2 before? I'd love to know how the g940 feels compared to the MSFBB2 when the g940 is used on a lower FFB setting. I'm assuming this happened because the g940 is stronger by default, OR i had a bad unit.

[AirHog71]

The G940 on default settings is very strong and you may have had centering spring turned on as well.

From "graveilness" I'm assuming your referring to feeling of the teeth of the cogs when force is applied? Yes that is there and I would think it's something you can't avoid in any FFB setup. I do have a MS Sidewinder FFB 1 stick and from memory that felt pretty much the same.

The G940 however is configurable and I usually fly with the FFB settings at 70%. But it also depends on how the simulator is using FFB too.

[Hippy Druid]

I own both the g940 and the MSFFB2. Both have that gritty feel when the motors are powered. I thought it might be a little wierd when I first got it, but you don't even notice it.
I could never use a non-ffb joystick again. The pros far outweight the cons.

In a comparison of the MSFFB2 and the G940. The G940 stick is much better.

Sure the G940 has some out-of-the-box issues, but after a few tweaks to adjust spikey rotaries and rudder pedals, the stick itself is far superior to the MSFFB2 in every way. Better built, better grip, better buttons. Just buy it! :D

I bought the MSFFB2 so I could mod it. But the G940 is the stick I use everytime. I am looking for another one, as a backup.

[Forged]

Good to hear guys - thanks.

I also feel the "Grittiness" on the MSFFB2, but it's so incredibly minute that I don't notice unless I'm looking for it. It's never affected my aim. I think the default FFB was just set really strong and it made the problem much worse. I wish I knew about this then! When I tried it out, it was so bad that I could not aim with it at all. =-\

[DairyAir]

I have owned a G940 setup for about a year.
Recently, the rudder began to spike and produce rudder reversal.
R1 and R2 on the throttle spike when the mixture lever is moved.

I really like the feel of this combo. However, it is now unusable.:(

If a simple tweak could fix things, I might be less grumpy.:-)

I own both the g940 and the MSFFB2. Both have that gritty feel when the motors are powered. I thought it might be a little wierd when I first got it, but you don't even notice it.
I could never use a non-ffb joystick again. The pros far outweight the cons.

In a comparison of the MSFFB2 and the G940. The G940 stick is much better.

Sure the G940 has some out-of-the-box issues, but after a few tweaks to adjust spikey rotaries and rudder pedals, the stick itself is far superior to the MSFFB2 in every way. Better built, better grip, better buttons. Just buy it! :D

I bought the MSFFB2 so I could mod it. But the G940 is the stick I use everytime. I am looking for another one, as a backup.

[DD_crash]

I have owned a G940 setup for about a year.
Recently, the rudder began to spike and produce rudder reversal.
R1 and R2 on the throttle spike when the mixture lever is moved.

I really like the feel of this combo. However, it is now unusable.:(

If a simple tweak could fix things, I might be less grumpy.:-)
If you dont mind taking it apart read this thread.http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23950 I am doing this with a new Leo Bodnar board and will post some pix when its done.

[lokitexas]

I own both the g940 and the MSFFB2. Both have that gritty feel when the motors are powered. I thought it might be a little wierd when I first got it, but you don't even notice it.
I could never use a non-ffb joystick again. The pros far outweight the cons.

In a comparison of the MSFFB2 and the G940. The G940 stick is much better.

Sure the G940 has some out-of-the-box issues, but after a few tweaks to adjust spikey rotaries and rudder pedals, the stick itself is far superior to the MSFFB2 in every way. Better built, better grip, better buttons. Just buy it! :D

I bought the MSFFB2 so I could mod it. But the G940 is the stick I use everytime. I am looking for another one, as a backup.

Thats the opposite of what I hear from everyone who has used the MSFF2 and G940.

FF supposedly feels much better on the MSFF2. I love it on mine. Also add to the fact that the MSFF2's are still working after all these years. I have 2 now.

Why I didnt purchase the G940, was a few things. First off the pedals, throttle, and stick are all seperate devices. That is just silly. The number of issues with reversals, spiking, and other issues, on top of the fact Logitechs lack of response to the issues is a huge turn off. Included in the price is also sub-par pedals. Anyone using, or going to use pedals of quality will switch the Logi ones that come with it. So again, paying for something I wouldnt use anyway is a waste.

I do like the button layout though. Except for the trim dials with no center detent.

So my solution was to buy the X65 to use with most sims (DCS, BMS etc). Also use one of my MSFF2 sticks with the x52 grip and buttons, for prop sims like RoF and IL2. That worked out much better.

Even using the MSFF2 with the default grip and buttons is more than enough for sims like IL2 and RoF, when you have a decent set of pedals and throttle.

My 2 cents, get a MSFF2 again. Mod it with a CH Fighter stick or x52 grip in order to use more buttons, or just by itself with a good throttle. The way the g940 is built, I doubt you will see them still working years from now..unlike the MSFF2.

[Forged]

You could always use the joystick by itself, right? If you didn't want to do some surgery on it, you could at least use the FFB stick and get new throttle and pedals to use (depending on what's broke, lol)

[capt vertigo]

Only other issue, my sidewinder software won't load up on Win 7..

Any known workarounds..?

V

[lensman1945]

Only other issue, my sidewinder software won't load up on Win 7..

Any known workarounds..?

V

you don't need it..

it's plug-and-play with Win 7

[Hippy Druid]

I have owned a G940 setup for about a year.
Recently, the rudder began to spike and produce rudder reversal.
R1 and R2 on the throttle spike when the mixture lever is moved.

I really like the feel of this combo. However, it is now unusable.:(

If a simple tweak could fix things, I might be less grumpy.:-)

Ok, here is what I did to fix my out of the box issues.
The spikey rotaries and throttle were annoying. A simple cable tie fixed this for me. It takes a couple of minutes. If the tie fails or comes loose, it takes a couple of minutes to fix it again! :)

You need to remove the base of the throttle, and there is a cable that moves when the throttle moves. This is the problem. You could do a whole leo bodnar rewire - and one day prehaps I will - but it's not necessary for the throttle and rotaries. The cable just needs to be anchored down with a cable tie so it doesn't move the white plug connected to the circuit board.
The red arrow shows you where.

The original poster of this picture and thread can be found below. Keep in mind this individual is modding their throttle. I did not do this. I only used the cable tie bit.
Other pictures show the removal of the base - Handy!!
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3323724/1.html

http://lca.ympsa.com/joystick/612.jpg



The pedals were the most frustrating bit. I am eventually going to ditch them for something else. But this is mainly because the throw is not as wide as I would like.

This video below shows a temporary fix, which is still worth doing.
Basically remove the bottom of the pedals and clamp the connectors on the potentiometer. This fixed my spikey pedals for a short time, but there was always an annoying jitter that would come back. You may or may not have this problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3WP4fXrvk8



If you're careful, and you are still in warranty, you can do both of the above-mentioned things without anyone ever knowing you took it apart.
If you're out of warranty, who cares.


Anyway, there is another solution for the rudder - this is the fix I have used in conjunction with clamping the pots. A little more time consuming, but well worth it.


On the Rise of Flight forums, is a very clever rudder fix. It requires the installation of PPJOY and Glovepie. (WTF are they!!??) Yeh that's what I thought, but it's not nearly as complicated as it first seems.

The creator of this has taken the time to explain each and every step.

Check it out here.
http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=350&t=30005

Of course the consumer shouldn't have to do any of this. But that's life. I knew this before I bought the G940 and I don't regret it for one second.

As for how well the G940 will age in comparison to the MSFFB2? I guess time will tell.
For the moment - The G940 is more accurate, it has a better layout, it's more comfortable during long sessions, and the FFB is stronger.
I can appreciate why people love the MSFFB2 so much, it's shown it's worth to me that's for sure. I am looking forward to turning it into something new. But overall the G940 gets the most love.

The MSFFB2 is probably the cheapest way to get back up and running with FFB. It's also very, very good. You know what I would choose :P but either is better than a stick with no FFB. ;)

I hope this helps people as much as it did me.

[AirHog71]

The other point I would like to highlight too is not everyone has the reversal bug or spiking issue. Mine has worked flawlessly since day one, that was over two years ago now. My only criticism is that the pedals are a bit too narrow.

I'm planning on extending the height of the stick for my simpit.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=1386793#post1386793

[AirHog71]

Thats the opposite of what I hear from everyone who has used the MSFF2 and G940.

FF supposedly feels much better on the MSFF2. I love it on mine. Also add to the fact that the MSFF2's are still working after all these years. I have 2 now.

Why I didnt purchase the G940, was a few things. First off the pedals, throttle, and stick are all seperate devices. That is just silly. The number of issues with reversals, spiking, and other issues, on top of the fact Logitechs lack of response to the issues is a huge turn off. Included in the price is also sub-par pedals. Anyone using, or going to use pedals of quality will switch the Logi ones that come with it. So again, paying for something I wouldnt use anyway is a waste.

I do like the button layout though. Except for the trim dials with no center detent.

So my solution was to buy the X65 to use with most sims (DCS, BMS etc). Also use one of my MSFF2 sticks with the x52 grip and buttons, for prop sims like RoF and IL2. That worked out much better.

Even using the MSFF2 with the default grip and buttons is more than enough for sims like IL2 and RoF, when you have a decent set of pedals and throttle.

My 2 cents, get a MSFF2 again. Mod it with a CH Fighter stick or x52 grip in order to use more buttons, or just by itself with a good throttle. The way the g940 is built, I doubt you will see them still working years from now..unlike the MSFF2.

Straight from the support forums eh ;)

[lokitexas]

Straight from the support forums eh ;)

Huh?

[AirHog71]

Don't stress mate. Just a sly comment on the fact that you don't actually own a G940 yet you've got a lot to say about it from what "you've heard".

[AbortedMan]

A lot of the "stirring a bucket if rocks" feel and the spiking had been fixed with the 1.42 firmware update. It also tightens up the deadness feel in the center of the stick. Those of you having those issues I highly recommend updating.

[lokitexas]

Don't stress mate. Just a sly comment on the fact that you don't actually own a G940 yet you've got a lot to say about it from what "you've heard".

And that is why I said "what I have heard". Before I purchased my last HOTAS (the X65), I did research on the X65, TH Warthog, and Logi G940. Talked to squadmates who have used it (2 have), and read reviews. In the end, I decided to purchase something else, due to "what I heard".

All my points are valid. If not please point out what isnt.

[vranac]

Cable isn't the only problem with G940.

Pedals and throttle have cheap trimmers and they will wear out fast.
Trimmer is used in electronics to set one position of resistance and not for constant moving.
I had Logitech joystick and I cleaned those trimmers but graphite layer is too thin and will wear out quickly and then you will get spikes.

They are built with purpose that way because price difference between trimmer and potentiometer are negligable if you consider amount that Logitech is buying from suppliers.

Joystick is good and without flaws in design.

[engadin]

Regarding Paccus and their hydraulic FFB joystick Hawk, they have recently started production:

http://www.paccus.com/parts-arrived

Perhaps in the coming weeks we'll finally be able to put our eyes on the long awaited tests from simming and hardware sites. Anxiously waiting for them. ;)

AA_Engadin.

[Forged]

Regarding Paccus and their hydraulic FFB joystick Hawk, they have recently started production:

http://www.paccus.com/parts-arrived

Perhaps in the coming weeks we'll finally be able to put our eyes on the long awaited tests from simming and hardware sites. Anxiously waiting for them. ;)

AA_Engadin.

I saw that too. Price also went up, reportedly because the parts used are very high quality.

-Forged