Forget about the SU-26, Fix the Flight Models

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

I read in Luthier's comments that:

the most commonly asked questions are:

.....various technical.....

and...

4) What’s the status of the Su-26 and the SDKs?

Who is reading the forums????

The most common issue brought up on these forums is the poor modelling of the real BoB aircraft.

Ie. the Spitfires, Hurricanes, 109's, etc.

Please don't waste time to include an aircraft which had NOTHING to do with the actual battle and devote the team's energy to fixing the planes which actually fought.

Thankyou

[SlipBall]

All in all I think the planes are very good, but are going to see a few changes with the patch.

[planespotter]

Certainly the Desastersoft crew don't see a problem. And they are both independent and experts.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3644748/Trouble_with_RAF_aircraft_in_t.html#Post3644748

But this I agree...who cares about Su26! Fix other broken stuff first...like AI.

[SlipBall]

We have seen in the recent past the devs cave to pressure of a few loud voices. The aircraft being change to a unhistorical state ie. RPM guage. So is this what the community as a whole wants, I don't think so. Alot of the aircraft complaints can be traced to flying them incorectly, and I think the devs are taking a look at the speeds etc. :)

[Ploughman]

Does it have to be either or? Can't it be both?

[Attila]

Nobody needs a su-26!

[senseispcc]

Does it have to be either or? Can't it be both?

Stop criticizing be constructive and help build something in place of only seeing what is not working see what is working 99% of the game is working ! Example the bad weather does not work think about it and most of the flying was done in good weather and bad weather flying is not a fun thing to do. Another example; your Spitfire is to slow at 17.000 fts it lacks 5 kph maybe you need to trim it better a little rudder trim does a lot to improve the speed of a plane. Be positive. And most of all do not forget this is a game not reality otherwise most of us should be dead all ready. And if you are still not happy there are many open source pc languages create your own air warfare simulation. :evil:

[Kwiatek]

+1000

Plz fix damn Flight Model and performacne of BOB planes.

If it have to be the last patch before sequel at least give us realistic and historical performacne of these planes and good flight model.

Most knwon isuses and bugs in FM code are:

- wrong Merlin engines ( MErlin III and Merlin XII) power settings not accurate with manuals ( for 87 octan version and 100 Octan) - including wrong RPMs settings, wrong mixture operation, too fast overheting and engine damage

- all planes are too slow expecially at the deck - British fighters are too slow ab. 30 mph ( it is funny when 100 Octan versions at emergency +12lbs boost reach only speed accurate for +6 1/4 lbs) and German 109s are too slow ab. 20-30 kph

- all planes have too low service celling

- 109 still have wrong slats working ( they open too late according to british test) and bad stall charactersitic

[JG52Krupi]

+1000

Plz fix damn Flight Model and performacne of BOB planes.

If it have to be the last patch before sequel at least give us realistic and historical performacne of these planes and good flight model.

Most knwon isuses and bugs in FM code are:

- wrong Merlin engines ( MErlin III and Merlin XII) power settings not accurate with manuals ( for 87 octan version and 100 Octan) - including wrong RPMs settings, wrong mixture operation, too fast overheting and engine damage

- all planes are too slow expecially at the deck - British fighters are too slow ab. 30 mph ( it is funny then 100 Octan versions at emergency +12lbs boost reach only speed accurate for +6 1/4 lbs) and German 109s are too slow ab. 20-30 kph

- all planes have too low service celling

- 109 still have wrong slats working ( they open too late according to british test) and bad stall charactersitic

Agreed, if you want to give us a new aircraft give us the Beaufighter or the gladiator and CR42

[Ploughman]

Stop criticizing be constructive and help build something in place of only seeing what is not working see what is working 99% of the game is working ! Example the bad weather does not work think about it and most of the flying was done in good weather and bad weather flying is not a fun thing to do. Another example; your Spitfire is to slow at 17.000 fts it lacks 5 kph maybe you need to trim it better a little rudder trim does a lot to improve the speed of a plane. Be positive. And most of all do not forget this is a game not reality otherwise most of us should be dead all ready. And if you are still not happy there are many open source pc languages create your own air warfare simulation. :evil:

Your response makes no sense considering what I wrote.

[arthursmedley]

Your response makes no sense considering what I wrote.

Lol, this is the Banana forum m8!:grin:

[esmiol]

Agreed, if you want to give us a new aircraft give us the Beaufighter or the gladiator and CR42

you realise what you said is idiot? the SU26 was plan to be in CLOD from the begining. it is not a new plane it is a missing plane.

and stopthinking about yourself guys. think about fan who ask to have the SU26

[zapatista]

the Su-26 is requested by people who use the il2 sim series for aerobatic flying, and with the high level of good modern information about the FM of this plane, it is a good test platform to see how good/real the flight physics modeling is in CoD/BoM

if luthier is confident to release this plane (and the model and design was done some yrs ago prior to the CoD release debacle), it means they are confident with the current state of the sim and provide us with a "precise measuring tool" to compare to RL performance of the same plane

adding it into the final patch is a good idea imho :)

[Ploughman]

the Su-26 is requested by people who use the il2 sim series for aerobatic flying, and with the high level of good modern information about the FM of this plane, it is a good test platform to see how good/real the flight physics modeling is in CoD/BoM

if luthier is confident to release this plane (and the model and design was done some yrs ago prior to the CoD release debacle), it means they are confident with the current state of the sim and provide us with a "precise measuring tool" to compare to RL performance of the same plane

adding it into the final patch is a good idea imho :)

Zapped it!

[SiThSpAwN]

How many Su-26's were used in the Battle of Britain? Having trouble finding those stats ;)

[*Buzzsaw*]

the Su-26 is requested by people who use the il2 sim series for aerobatic flying, and with the high level of good modern information about the FM of this plane, it is a good test platform to see how good/real the flight physics modeling is in CoD/BoM

if luthier is confident to release this plane (and the model and design was done some yrs ago prior to the CoD release debacle), it means they are confident with the current state of the sim and provide us with a "precise measuring tool" to compare to RL performance of the same plane

adding it into the final patch is a good idea imho :)

It is not necessary to add this plane to determine the performance of the historical aircraft are not up to spec. Whether or not the SU-26 is present has no bearing on the other flight models. Spending time to develop this aircraft is an expenditure of time and resources which, considering the unfinished state of the crucial historical aircraft, is clearly not warranted.

[trademe900]

It's a huge slap in the face for those of us still waiting for what we paid for. Ffs... su26?

[yobnaf]

What a nice idea to make a SU 26 for ClOD. So we can fly modern planes and make some cool aerobatics. Please give us more of that, luthier and team.

[kendo65]

Personally, i'd like to see it.

I'm assumimg it has been finished for some time and won't be a diversion of resources.

[zapatista]

It's a huge slap in the face for those of us still waiting for what we paid for. Ffs... su26?

you already paid for it, it was long ago announced it was going to be included in BoB. with the sudden panic in the last 12 months before the forced release (when firm deadlines were given by the men in teflon suits), it was just put on the back burner (and many people at release complained it wasnt included)

the su-26 might be a modern civilian plane, but there are groups of dedicated aerobatic flyers who have been long requesting such an aircraft, some of them are professional aerobatic pilots who want to use a simulator to practice routines (less cost, less danger)

[zapatista]

Spending time to further develop this aircraft to the point it is completed and can be released is an expenditure of time and resources which, considering the unfinished state of the crucial historical aircraft, is clearly not warranted.

i'd agree on that, subject to the added bold parts :)

the most urgent thing is to fix the current fighter aircraft FM's !!

[TUCKIE_JG52]

Su-26 was promised, we are still waiting... this video is so old that it has the ancient name for the current CoD and it was addressed to Oleg Maddox.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxSLNJIoQIU

And yes, some of us will be very pleased when it will be released, alongside with the FM corrected (specially about propwash addition) :)

[TomcatViP]

Stop criticizing be constructive and help build something in place of only seeing what is not working see what is working 99% of the game is working ! Example the bad weather does not work think about it and most of the flying was done in good weather and bad weather flying is not a fun thing to do. Another example; your Spitfire is to slow at 17.000 fts it lacks 5 kph maybe you need to trim it better a little rudder trim does a lot to improve the speed of a plane. Be positive. And most of all do not forget this is a game not reality otherwise most of us should be dead all ready. And if you are still not happy there are many open source pc languages create your own air warfare simulation. :evil:

Amen to that!

[yobnaf]

Stop criticizing be constructive and help build something in place of only seeing what is not working see what is working 99% of the game is working ! Example the bad weather does not work think about it and most of the flying was done in good weather and bad weather flying is not a fun thing to do. Another example; your Spitfire is to slow at 17.000 fts it lacks 5 kph maybe you need to trim it better a little rudder trim does a lot to improve the speed of a plane. Be positive. And most of all do not forget this is a game not reality otherwise most of us should be dead all ready. And if you are still not happy there are many open source pc languages create your own air warfare simulation. :evil:

You are a real fanboy of a real great flight sim. I love you, keep up the good work ! :grin:

[TUCKIE_JG52]

You are a real fanboy of a real great flight sim. I love you, keep up the good work ! :grin:

I don't think he is a fanboy but an open minded flightsimmer with the right attitude.

For example, I have spoken with lots of flightsimmers with Pc enough to get smooth fps in CoD, more than me, and they are unable to configurate their own Pc to make it run.

If my old I7 920 can run CoD quite good, there must be something terribly wrong with those who cannot run it... It's a problem of coD or its a problem of their Pc?

[CWMV]

I dont think anyone has issues running the game anymore, Ive never had any issues with running it, just the shoddy condition it was released in.

[Widow17]

They just cant make it right. First there was a big roar because of no Su26 so they came to the conclusion its pretty important to have it, now they want to put it in and its the other way around ;)

[JG53Harti]

Nobody needs a su-26!

But you have so an airplane, where the current flight model can compare with reality. Or do you know a lot of people who still have a 109 or Spitfire and fly it every day?

[Feathered_IV]

I care nothing for the Su-26. They wouldn't have a show in hell of giving it an accurate flight model.

[JG53Harti]

But if one is flying this plane, he knows the data and can compare it with the game. So we knew exactly how well the fm is

[yobnaf]

But if one is flying this plane, he knows the data and can compare it with the game. So we knew exactly how well the fm is

It's perfect. be sure !

[[URU]AkeR]

Have you seen the threads speaking of differences in the reading of the speed gauges, and not the real speed of the plane?

Spits gauges seems to be showing 15% slower than actual speed of the model. And this is at low level, son dont give me a IAS vs TAS lection.
So when your spit is showing 260, its actually going 300.

So maybe the FM are not so bad. I think they are great actually, and of course they can and should be improved. But not so urgent

[superman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila
Nobody needs a su-26!

Who can claim, seriuosly that they need a imulated spitfire either.
Its about what people want isnt it

An the su-26 is most likely finished already, it just wasnt included because of licence stuff

[TomcatViP]

Yeah and we needs something that can dance the hulla-hoop with their Bat-spits

[TUCKIE_JG52]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attila
Nobody needs a su-26!

Who can claim, seriuosly that they need a imulated spitfire either.
Its about what people want isnt it

An the su-26 is most likely finished already, it just wasnt included because of licence stuff

Incorrect. Aerobatic pilots need it. We also are here, don't forget it.

And it was not ready due to cockpit incomplete, not license problems.

[pencon]

Yes skip the SU26 , completely pointless for a WW2 sim . Instead let's have an FW190

[SlipBall]

Well a lot of people are counting on this aircraft, after all it was talked about for good long time. I know so was many other things were too, but I think it will be fun, maybe even bring a few civilian pilot dollars, into the pot.

[U505]

Yes skip the SU26 , completely pointless for a WW2 sim . Instead let's have an FW190

completely right mate :-P

[Dami55an]

I think the devs are taking a look at the speeds etc.
http://www.gqth.info/0.jpghttp://www.gqth.info/7.jpghttp://www.gqth.info/8.jpghttp://www.gqth.info/9.jpghttp://www.ymeu.info/test5.jpg

[hiro]

this


the Su-26 is requested by people who use the il2 sim series for aerobatic flying, and with the high level of good modern information about the FM of this plane, it is a good test platform to see how good/real the flight physics modeling is in CoD/BoM

if luthier is confident to release this plane (and the model and design was done some yrs ago prior to the CoD release debacle), it means they are confident with the current state of the sim and provide us with a "precise measuring tool" to compare to RL performance of the same plane

adding it into the final patch is a good idea imho :)







But you have so an airplane, where the current flight model can compare with reality. Or do you know a lot of people who still have a 109 or Spitfire and fly it every day?






the two quotes above show the insight that oleg had . . . if a game engine is accurate to something modern that they can tweak (the engine) to nail the SU-26's flight characteristics.

There are lots of SU-26's (more individual aircraft quirks), lots of pilots (skill levels, flying backgrounds), and a willingness to push the aircraft to it's boundaries. We have realistic warbirds, but the flying ones are a rarity, and pilots are also rare. The owners of the warbirds are certainly not willing to push the boundaries of the old war horses.

With lots of the X factors above, with enough statistical compilation, one can get a accurate feel for the SU-26 in game. Then they can translate that to your favorite warbird.

The devs also get experience in taking a real plane and modelling it correctly in game . . .

It helps make the engine better. Even if it distracts from the WW2 aspect, if it improves the game engine, I'm all for it.


the devs (if they wanted to) can do this stuff:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq6V2H9tHo8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfhFvnTfsi8&feature=related

[Tree_UK]

We are never going to see the SU-26 anyway, its simply not going to happen.

[mazex]

Well, the Su-26 has been in the CloD project since they started the development. One of the first videos of the actual game as it looks now was from some flying club in Russia where they showed the beta to journalists - and the only plane they flew was the Su-26...

If i remember it correctly Oleg himself worked on the real Su-26 project before starting to do sims so including this plane feels like a bonus he was well deserved of :-)

And having flown the Su-29 IRL (the two seater version of the Su-26) I would be very interested in getting this plane in the game as I know how it handles IRL to have something to compare to... Sure I've flown the Moth too but it's very special with the extremely low wing loading and weak engine. The Su is naturally very far from the wing loading of the war birds but it at least has a resonable hp/kg ratio...


/mazex

[yobnaf]

Well, the Su-26 has been in the CloD project since they started the development. One of the first videos of the actual game as it looks now was from some flying club in Russia where they showed the beta to journalists - and the only plane they flew was the Su-26...

If i remember it correctly Oleg himself worked on the real Su-26 project before starting to do sims so including this plane feels like a bonus he was well deserved of :-)

/mazex

That was the dark past. now look forward into the bright future. :)