Questions

[Tree_UK]

Didn't Black Six say that Luthier was answering the questions tonight?? I hope the 3 questions Luthier answered in his post isn't it!

[ATAG_Dutch]

BlackSix posted this at 10.19am UK time;

'Friday Update will be in 1-2 hours, Q&A will be in 8-10 hours today.'

;)

[Tree_UK]

BlackSix posted this at 10.19am UK time;

'Friday Update will be in 1-2 hours, Q&A will be in 8-10 hours today.'

;)

so he's a little late then...

[Mysticpuma]

Lots of questions to answer...gonna take a while ;)

[Tree_UK]

Black Six, can you nudge Luthier, he did say he would be back.

[Storm of When]

Perhaps he`s doing what they do where I work, they wait till we`ve alll gone home on a Friday before emailing all the staff with the bad news.

[JG52Krupi]

B6 just said that hes finished collecting the questions :D

[Storm of When]

C u next Tuesday then.

[BlackSix]

B6 just said that hes finished collecting the questions :D

I didn't expect over 150 questions from two forums. Please waiting.

[Storm of When]

I didn't expect over 150 questions from two forums. Please waiting.

Really, what planet you been on for the last 18 months???

[Tree_UK]

I didn't expect over 150 questions from two forums. Please waiting.

Probably one question for every 3 bugs Black Six.

[klem]

I didn't expect over 150 questions from two forums. Please waiting.

BlackSix, many of those 150 posts will disappear when you weed out the non-questions but you closed the thread as I tried to post my question. Please see:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34383

Its a question and a reason for it.

[BlackSix]

BlackSix, many of those 150 posts will disappear when you weed out the non-questions but you closed the thread as I tried to post my question. Please see:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34383

Its a question and a reason for it.

I did it.

[klem]

I did it.

Many thanks.

[BlackSix]

Really, what planet you been on for the last 18 months???

We published Q&A four times.

[hc_wolf]

Never mind I found it. Thanks b6. Have a great wekend

[Skoshi Tiger]

It must be hard for someone learning English to actually find the questions in some of those posts.

It looked like a lot of people were trying to air a grudge or make some sort of debate.

[Tree_UK]

Hmmmm, no Q&A then.

[Tree_UK]

Am I missing something here, Has Luthier done the Q&A? I'm sure Black Six said Luthier would be back later to answer our questions?

[planespotter]

Yes, he answered every question and everyone was very happy with the answers so there has been no discussion. Did you miss it? ;)

[adonys]

oh, wait!

wasn't B6 telling us yesterday that Luthier will answer the questions (gathered until 6PM GMT)? they must be invisible, or something, 'cause I can not see them..

[Tree_UK]

I'll be back at the end of the day to answer more of your questions.

Hey Luthier, you gotta be joking, you seriously didn't come back and answer at least a few question or even apologise for not coming back??

[5./JG27.Farber]

Tree UK,

Did you ever buy a car you didnt like? If so did you hang around the forums and complain? Are you still complaining about it to this day?

Did you ever have a girlfirend you didnt like? Are you still stalking her now asking her to change and demanding answers?

Things dont always work out as planned. Get over it.


:-P

[FS~Phat]

B6 has already stated that they had over 150 questions.
I would guess its going to take longer to get back to us if he's going to attempt to read and answer them all.

[kendo65]

Hi Tree, I see you posted at 4.39am this morning - sorry, but I have this vision of you determinedly sitting in front of your PC right through the night waiting for Luthier to come and give us all the news :)

And people misinterpret you as a naysayer - you're the biggest fanboy here ;)

[MadTommy]

Patience is needed as ever. But with the history of being told something will happen for it to never materialise seems a business ethos for MG. Common curtsey would have been to post saying the Q&A would be delayed. MG really are a public relations disaster case study.

[JG52Krupi]

Hey Luthier, you gotta be joking, you seriously didn't come back and answer at least a few question or even apologise for not coming back??

What I find most funny is that you actually think they would bother to answer your thinly veiled insulting questions, my friend they would have been vetted by B6 and co before being given to Luthier... :mrgreen:

[5./JG27.Farber]

I think Tree UK went to bed, he was up all night waiting for the answers. :-P

[SlipBall]

I think Tree UK went to bed, he was up all night waiting for the answers. :-P

Are you saying Tree has left the building??

[5./JG27.Farber]

Are you saying Tree has left the building??

I am saying his post on the earlier page has this time stamp:

Today, 04:39 AM

[PotNoodles]

Tree UK,

Did you ever buy a car you didnt like? If so did you hang around the forums and complain? Are you still complaining about it to this day?

Did you ever have a girlfirend you didnt like? Are you still stalking her now asking her to change and demanding answers?

Things dont always work out as planned. Get over it.


:-P

1) I bought a car I didn't like, it was in the garage for months on end and I complained more and more as the weeks went by. I eventually got the same amount of money of another car after threatening legal action.

2)I have had a girlfriend who took me for a mug once. She ended up at mummy's house crying because I wanted nothing more to do with her. But why would tree go stalking a girlfriend if he didn't like her? Surly in a situation where you didn't like someone you would be glad to get rid of them don't you think?

3) Things do work out if the people responsible for them in the first place make sure they work out.

[Tree_UK]

1) I bought a car I didn't like, it was in the garage for months on end and I complained more and more as the weeks went by. I eventually got the same amount of money of another car after threatening legal action.

2)I have had a girlfriend who took me for a mug once. She ended up at mummy's house crying because I wanted nothing more to do with her. But why would tree go stalking a girlfriend if he didn't like her? Surly in a situation where you didn't like someone you would be glad to get rid of them don't you think?

3) Things do work out if the people responsible for them in the first place make sure they work out.

I think Farber is stalking me, he has to respond to my every post. :grin:

[Tree_UK]

Anyhow, lets go back to Luthiers Q&A, all I'm saying is that had I been Luthier having just read that a large part of my customer base have no trust in me, then I would have come back and made a littel post along these lines ' lots of questions here guys, far to many to answer in one night but i will do it over the weekend'. What do we get from Luthier, nothing. This is where he loses freinds and fans.

[Tree_UK]

What I find most funny is that you actually think they would bother to answer your thinly veiled insulting questions, my friend they would have been vetted by B6 and co before being given to Luthier... :mrgreen:

Well it takes a man to say what he thinks buddy, instead of tip toeing around with a smarmy grin, speak up and be counted.

[JG52Krupi]

Well it takes a man to say what he thinks buddy, instead of tip toeing around with a smarmy grin, speak up and be counted.

LMAO it only takes a second to discard an idiotic question...

[Ibis]

I think he's a limb short of a full tree.

[SlipBall]

Anyhow, lets go back to Luthiers Q&A, all I'm saying is that had I been Luthier having just read that a large part of my customer base have no trust in me, then I would have come back and made a littel post along these lines ' lots of questions here guys, far to many to answer in one night but i will do it over the weekend'. What do we get from Luthier, nothing. This is where he loses freinds and fans.



I did read that the answers would be published, delay largely due to volume.

[kendo65]

Anyhow, lets go back to Luthiers Q&A, all I'm saying is that had I been Luthier having just read that a large part of my customer base have no trust in me, then I would have come back and made a littel post along these lines ' lots of questions here guys, far to many to answer in one night but i will do it over the weekend'. What do we get from Luthier, nothing. This is where he loses freinds and fans.

True unfortunately. Once again - and almost unbelievably given the apologetic, understanding tone of Luthier's earlier post - they miss out on the easy option of posting a message to say it'll be delayed a bit. They really are their own worst enemies at times.

I did read that the answers would be published, delay largely due to volume.

Where was that posted Slipball? Fully expect we'll see the answers in time, but haven't seen any comment.

[Baron]

If there ever was a promise that should have been kept, this was it. Doesnt matter how much anyone finds Tree annoying or whatever.


Something tells me they want to answer all the questions (no where near all the 150) in one go, lock the thread and run. (i think the answers will force them to do so).

[SlipBall]

True unfortunately. Once again - and almost unbelievably given the apologetic, understanding tone of his earlier post - they miss out on the easy option of posting a simple message to say it'll be delayed a bit. They really are their own worst enemies at times.



Where was that posted Slipball? Fully expect we'll see the answers in time, but haven't seen any comment.

Hi Kendo, I read a B6 post this morning at sukhoi.ru:)

[kendo65]

ok, thanks.

[Tree_UK]

True unfortunately. Once again - and almost unbelievably given the apologetic, understanding tone of Luthier's earlier post - they miss out on the easy option of posting a message to say it'll be delayed a bit. They really are their own worst enemies at times.



Where was that posted Slipball? Fully expect we'll see the answers in time, but haven't seen any comment.

Thank you Kendo, you and Baron get my point entirely, the others in here are all abit slow.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Don't confuse those you see behind you as being slow..

When the truth is they are so far ahead of you that they are in the process of lapping you

[Tree_UK]

Don't confuse those you see behind you as being slow..

When the truth is they are so far ahead of you that they are in the process of lapping you

Eh?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Talk about 'slow' ;)

[Tree_UK]

Talk about 'slow' ;)

Yep, and as if by magic you turn up.

[JG52Krupi]

Please could you stop quoting AOA Tree, I have him on my ignore list for a reason... :mrgreen:

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Please could you stop quoting AOA Tree, I have him on my ignore list for a reason... :mrgreen:
Yes please stop Tree..

Because it upsets him so much to realise he does and says all the same things that he use to get upset with me for saying!

And he is just not able to admit that to himself yet!

Maybe in time? ;)

[Trumper]

So ,are there any answers yet? 2 weeks maybe.

[Pudfark]

Thanks for starting this thread Tree...
It seems the "Official Questions for Luthier" thread is locked,
along with "the development update" thread....This is the only place
to go now....sigh

[furbs]

So ,are there any answers yet? 2 weeks maybe.

Expect a announcement in June, im not saying what year though.

[Storm of When]

Has Ilya been on and said anything about why the questions response is taking a long time, even Stevie Wonder could see the PR disaster of not saying a word. I met him at a flight sim show in the UK just before IL2 1946 was released and he stood and chatted for 10 mins about the good and bad points of IL2 has he really become that jaded that he hasn`t got the time to post just a few words in response to the where are the answers posts doing the rounds??

[Meusli]

This forum should be renamed Groundhog Day.

[jimbop]

Why shoot yourself in the foot by breaking a promise to your customers that you didn't even need to make in the first place? Just have to shake your head...

It is meant to be UNDER promise and OVER deliver. Some things are difficult in project management, no arguments about that, but this is not one of them. If the public face is this inept it really makes me wonder what happens behind the scenes.

[Tree_UK]

I dont think we are missing much, his answers will be mostly the following:

1. No
2. Not in Clod but maybe in sequel
3. To early to tell
4. Not a priority
5. Sorry Ace, Zap Chivas and Hayward but I'm married.

[furbs]

Has Ilya been on and said anything about why the questions response is taking a long time, even Stevie Wonder could see the PR disaster of not saying a word. I met him at a flight sim show in the UK just before IL2 1946 was released and he stood and chatted for 10 mins about the good and bad points of IL2 has he really become that jaded that he hasn`t got the time to post just a few words in response to the where are the answers posts doing the rounds??


The show in Birmingham? if so i was there too.

The Birmingham show was when BOB was announced, seems like a life time ago now.

[SlipBall]

Don't forget that he has the Russian questions to answer as well, no real rush I think...the answers won't change much, but I'm looking forward to reading them too.

[Feathered_IV]

The show in Birmingham? if so i was there too.

The Birmingham show was when BOB was announced, seems like a life time ago now.

I remember watching the interview there that Mysticpuma did with Oleg. When MP asked Oleg if BoB would be ready in 2007. Oleg nodded gravely and said, it has to be...

[Tree_UK]

I remember watching the interview there that Mysticpuma did with Oleg. When MP asked Oleg if BoB would be ready in 2007. Oleg nodded gravely and said, it has to be...

Yes I remember MP's video, With Oleg being protective about what MP was allowed to film, I think a release date was given later by Ubi as Nov 2007.

[furbs]

Ive always believed the landscape in that MP vid is better than we have now looks wise.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Could be that they were flying on an empty map with one player aircraft?

Maybe it didn't scale well when they started to put more objects into the sim.

Though looking back at that video, you can see why they were optimistic about the capabilities of their sim.

Personally I think the landscape works fairly well, once we get the trees collisions and shadows working nap of earth flying will be one of the highlights of this sim.

Tree! Did you really say "I've been talking crap 2 years before the release of this game"? I recon that ones going to be locked up in the arsenal with all the other out of context quotes for use at an unspecified time in the future! ;)


Catch you all online sometime! :)

[5./JG27.Farber]

Yes I remember MP's video, With Oleg being protective about what MP was allowed to film, I think a release date was given later by Ubi as Nov 2007.

Speaking of memories and what people said they were gonna do etc.... Remember when I pointed out to you that the best way to improve the game was submit a bug tracker ticket with evidence so the devs would actually see it? - and therefore actually fix the game in the right direction?!

I am wondering if you ever made one and what was the outcome...

;)

[Tree_UK]

Could be that they were flying on an empty map with one player aircraft?

Maybe it didn't scale well when they started to put more objects into the sim.

Though looking back at that video, you can see why they were optimistic about the capabilities of their sim.

Personally I think the landscape works fairly well, once we get the trees collisions and shadows working nap of earth flying will be one of the highlights of this sim.

Tree! Did you really say "I've been talking crap 2 years before the release of this game"? I recon that ones going to be locked up in the arsenal with all the other out of context quotes for use at an unspecified time in the future! ;)


Catch you all online sometime! :)

Yes I did say that in response to Zap, sadly all the crap I was talking came true.

[Tree_UK]

Speaking of memories and what people said they were gonna do etc.... Remember when I pointed out to you that the best way to improve the game was submit a bug tracker ticket with evidence so the devs would actually see it? - and therefore actually fix the game in the right direction?!

I am wondering if you ever made one and what was the outcome...

;)

Yes I have, the problems that I have with CLOD are the same as others, see bug list.

[Storm of When]

Yeh Furbs it was at the NEC if I remember correctly and I had a chat with Maddox as well, a very short one, he stepped backwards square on my toe and said "sorry" and no I haven`t kept the trainers for the Maddox worshippers who might wanna buy em. I watched the CloD game/video playing and he was being interviewed in English by a guy holding a recorder, might have been MP. Long time ago in terms of gaming. I remember the hall was pretty big but there was hardly any punters about, I had a chat with a bloke from Manchester who was there with his lad and misses (I think). Anyway back on topic, still nothing from the bloke that used to give a ****, says it all really.

[Tree_UK]

Luthier will be back on here more frequently when the sequel is about to hit the shelves.

[furbs]

Yeh Furbs it was at the NEC if I remember correctly and I had a chat with Maddox as well, a very short one, he stepped backwards square on my toe and said "sorry" and no I haven`t kept the trainers for the Maddox worshippers who might wanna buy em. I watched the CloD game/video playing and he was being interviewed in English by a guy holding a recorder, might have been MP. Long time ago in terms of gaming. I remember the hall was pretty big but there was hardly any punters about, I had a chat with a bloke from Manchester who was there with his lad and misses (I think). Anyway back on topic, still nothing from the bloke that used to give a ****, says it all really.


Ahhh i see, my trip was a bit before that. We saw the first presentation of BOB, big screen slide show and a bit of waffle from Oleg and Luthier, lots of stuff that was seen on the 1946 disk.
Oleg was showing off the "new clouds" and "weather" LOL wonder if we will ever see them?

[Anders_And]

Yes I did say that in response to Zap, sadly all the crap I was talking came true.

+1

[RupertVonHentzau]

Thanks for starting this thread Tree...
It seems the "Official Questions for Luthier" thread is locked,
along with "the development update" thread....This is the only place
to go now....sigh

So what is going on here? Stalin back in charge?

[Tree_UK]

So what is going on here? Stalin back in charge?

Well nothing is going on, Luthier said he would be back on Friday evening to answer some questions, but weve not heard anything since, and the threads have been locked. Its all part of Luthiers excellent PR strategy to get primed for buying his next game. :grin::grin:

[klem]

Well nothing is going on, Luthier said he would be back on Friday evening to answer some questions, but weve not heard anything since, and the threads have been locked. Its all part of Luthiers excellent PR strategy to get primed for buying his next game. :grin::grin:

Not sure why I'm bothering but....

The questions were collected and closed late Friday night in Blacksix's post timestamped 10:29pm. If that's translated to UK time for my browser that would make it about 1:29am Moscow time. Even so, 10:29pm Moscow is late and it was Friday.

There were over 150 'questions' posts to be sorted through and the real questions isolated from the egotistical ping-pong crap from the usual suspects.

Its the weekend. They aren't working - like anyone else.

Do you guys really need to be told that?
Do you really need to be told by Luthier "be back on Monday"?

[Tree_UK]

Not sure why I'm bothering but....

The questions were collected and closed late Friday night in Blacksix's post timestamped 10:29pm. If that's translated to UK time for my browser that would make it about 1:29am Moscow time. Even so, 10:29pm Moscow is late and it was Friday.

There were over 150 'questions' posts to be sorted through and the real questions isolated from the egotistical ping-pong crap from the usual suspects.

Its the weekend. They aren't working - like anyone else.

Do you guys really need to be told that?
Do you really need to be told by Luthier "be back on Monday"?

I think under the circumstances, it would of been courteous for Luthier to make that post, obviously he feels like you and deems it not necessary.

[JtD]

Maybe he's got a life.

[Tree_UK]

Maybe he's got a life.

Well with 1 post in 5 months it seems like he has. :grin:

[Trumper]

Not sure why I'm bothering but....

The questions were collected and closed late Friday night in Blacksix's post timestamped 10:29pm. If that's translated to UK time for my browser that would make it about 1:29am Moscow time. Even so, 10:29pm Moscow is late and it was Friday.

There were over 150 'questions' posts to be sorted through and the real questions isolated from the egotistical ping-pong crap from the usual suspects.

Its the weekend. They aren't working - like anyone else.

Do you guys really need to be told that?
Do you really need to be told by Luthier "be back on Monday"?

In fairness Luthier did state "With that, I'm out. I'll be back at the end of the day to answer more of your questions." In fairness he didn't have to answer all of them at once,he could've answered a few and added he would be back later this/next week to finish off.

[klem]

In fairness Luthier did state "With that, I'm out. I'll be back at the end of the day to answer more of your questions." In fairness he didn't have to answer all of them at once,he could've answered a few and added he would be back later this/next week to finish off.

Back to Page 1, 10:25pm

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=461054&postcount=10

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Luthier will be back on here more frequently when the sequel is about to hit the shelves.

Of course. The 'charm offensive' will begin anew when he remembers that he actually needs customers to sustain his business (those irksome, annoying folk who dare to request a decently functional product that some forked out 50 quid for....18mnths later no joy).

He'll be back when its time to hawk his dodgy, shady wares again, and flog some more "magic beans" to the citizens of the tragically deluded "Republic of MUGS" :grin: ; they will thank him profusely for his magnanimity and kindness, and shower him with garlands.....Singing 'Hit me baby one more time'. LMAO. :grin:

He should work for the "Vale of Mowbray" company, as he's churned out so many family sized Porkie pies he'd increase their productivity tenfold. If he was in me hoose and told me it was raining outside, I'd look out the window just to make sure. :grin:

What happened to "crushing the competition", anyway? The only thing they have crushed is any microscopic credibility they had left.

Time wasters. :grin:

[Trumper]

Back to Page 1, 10:25pm

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=461054&postcount=10

Nearly 2 days ago now

[klem]

Nearly 2 days ago now

Which part of 'weekend' didn't you understand?

As I said, I'm not sure why I'm bothering. I'm done.

EDIT: Actually I remember why I bothered. We had a really useful thread about Communication with the Community until a string of people turned it into their personal playground and caused BlackSix to lock it because they had hijacked it. He only re-opened it after all the crap had been cleared out by the mods. I bothered here because I would like to keep 1C motivated to help us as far as they can instead of getting even more offended, chopping CoD off and getting away from some of you as fast as possible.

[vranac]

Which part of 'weekend' didn't you understand?

As I said, I'm not sure why I'm bothering. I'm done.

EDIT: Actually I remember why I bothered. We had a really useful thread about Communication with the Community until a string of people turned it into their personal playground and caused BlackSix to lock it because they had hijacked it. He only re-opened it after all the crap had been cleared out by the mods. I bothered here because I would like to keep 1C motivated to help us as far as they can instead of getting even more offended, chopping CoD off and getting away from some of you as fast as possible.

Great post !!!

[ATAG_Septic]

Which part of 'weekend' didn't you understand?

As I said, I'm not sure why I'm bothering. I'm done.

EDIT: Actually I remember why I bothered. We had a really useful thread about Communication with the Community until a string of people turned it into their personal playground and caused BlackSix to lock it because they had hijacked it. He only re-opened it after all the crap had been cleared out by the mods. I bothered here because I would like to keep 1C motivated to help us as far as they can instead of getting even more offended, chopping CoD off and getting away from some of you as fast as possible.

I share your sentiment here Klem, good post.

Septic.

[Pudfark]

Klem pls don't misunderstand. What you said has bearing and is meaningful.
We, the community did not impose a time limit. It was an option chosen by Luthier. We wait, all of us. Money, in every regard is the biggest motivator.
Lack of it the same. Words are just a way to bide the time.

Communication and Explanation have been sorely lacking. Folks are just painfully pointing that out. While they wait. Only one person can change that.

The last two days?
Have been like the last 18 months.

[JG52Krupi]

Which part of 'weekend' didn't you understand?

As I said, I'm not sure why I'm bothering. I'm done.

EDIT: Actually I remember why I bothered. We had a really useful thread about Communication with the Community until a string of people turned it into their personal playground and caused BlackSix to lock it because they had hijacked it. He only re-opened it after all the crap had been cleared out by the mods. I bothered here because I would like to keep 1C motivated to help us as far as they can instead of getting even more offended, chopping CoD off and getting away from some of you as fast as possible.

Good post Klem, apologies for my part in the locking of said thread.. :oops:

[Trumper]

Which part of 'weekend' didn't you understand?

As I said, I'm not sure why I'm bothering. I'm done.

EDIT: Actually I remember why I bothered. We had a really useful thread about Communication with the Community until a string of people turned it into their personal playground and caused BlackSix to lock it because they had hijacked it. He only re-opened it after all the crap had been cleared out by the mods. I bothered here because I would like to keep 1C motivated to help us as far as they can instead of getting even more offended, chopping CoD off and getting away from some of you as fast as possible.

Sorry where in this sentence/thread was weekend mentioned :confused:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=461054&postcount=10

Actually a huge amount of us DO work weekends so please don't quote something i haven't said.

[Tree_UK]

Sorry where in this sentence/thread was weekend mentioned :confused:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=461054&postcount=10

It wasn't mentioned, it was I will be back later this evening (Friday) to answer some more questions.

[klem]

Sorry where in this sentence/thread was weekend mentioned :confused:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=461054&postcount=10

Actually a huge amount of us DO work weekends so please don't quote something i haven't said.

I said weekend.

Let me walk you through it.....

Its 9:25pm on Friday, Blacksix says "I didn't expect 150 questions...please wait". The thread is still getting questions. He doesn't cut and run but he leaves the Question collection open right up until 10:29pm allowing us every chance to post our questions. What comes next? Ah yes, the weekend. 1C don't usually work weekends.

Did you really expect BlackSix and Luthier to sit up until 4a.m. reading through them all, compiling and rationalising them and answering them? If they don't have a life I expect their families do. If we get answers early on Monday you will at least know they sacrificed their weekend just to do it. Personally I don't expect replies for a couple of days.


I really am done with this one now.

[Chivas]

I said weekend.

Let me walk you through it.....

Its 9:25pm on Friday, Blacksix says "I didn't expect 150 questions...please wait". The thread is still getting questions. He doesn't cut and run but he leaves the Question collection open right up until 10:29pm allowing us every chance to post our questions. What comes next? Ah yes, the weekend. 1C don't usually work weekends.

Did you really expect BlackSix and Luthier to sit up until 4a.m. reading through them all, compiling and rationalising them and answering them? If they don't have a life I expect their families do. If we get answers early on Monday you will at least know they sacrificed their weekend just to do it. Personally I don't expect replies for a couple of days.


I really am done with this one now.

Sorry logic and common sense isn't needed on forums.

[Tree_UK]

Sorry logic and common sense isn't needed on forums.

Lucky for you then Chivas! :grin::grin:

[Chivas]

Lucky for you then Chivas! :grin::grin:

Aren't you the guy that suggested BlackSix admission he didn't play COD online proved your point that no one on the development played online. Thats was very logical. ;)

[Tree_UK]

Aren't you the guy that suggested BlackSix admission he didn't play COD online proved your point that no one on the development played online. Thats was very logical. ;)

No, that wasn't me, my logic was, that to release a patch with as many bugs in as it fixed suggested that little to no testing of the patch was done. Furthermore, it was the community who had to inform the dev's that the Hurricane wouldn't start, simple logic suggest that few if any at the dev office play the game otherwise they would of pointed it out to us.

[Chivas]

No, that wasn't me, my logic was, that to release a patch with as many bugs in as it fixed suggested that little to no testing of the patch was done. Furthermore, it was the community who had to inform the dev's that the Hurricane wouldn't start, simple logic suggest that few if any at the dev office play the game otherwise they would of pointed it out to us.

Sorry but "little to no testing of the patch" doesn't make any sense. There will always be stuff they miss, THAT's THE WHOLE POINT of providing a beta test patch for the community.

[vranac]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

[jermin]

Sorry but "little to no testing of the patch" doesn't make any sense. There will always be stuff they miss, THAT's THE WHOLE POINT of providing a beta test patch for the community.

Sorry, but it does make sense. I am more and more convinced that some of you here are getting paid by 1C to spread disgustingly sham optimism.

[Tree_UK]

Sorry but "little to no testing of the patch" doesn't make any sense. There will always be stuff they miss, THAT's THE WHOLE POINT of providing a beta test patch for the community.

Like not being able to start an aircraft, or the ground showing through the interior of a cockpit, difficult stuff like that to find, is that what you mean?

[Chivas]

Like not being able to start an aircraft, or the ground showing through the interior of a cockpit, difficult stuff like that to find, is that what you mean?

Exactly

[Chivas]

Sorry, but it does make sense. I am more and more convinced that some of you here are getting paid by 1C to spread disgustingly sham optimism.

I could use the same adjectives for your negatively.

edit....although the forum without any optimism might be a much quieter place, but it would be a hell hole, that would soon fester, and die. Maybe they should have two forums, one for optimists and the other pessimists.

[Tree_UK]

Exactly

Chivas, the dev's altered the fm of the allied aircraft in that patch, but failed to notice that by doing so you couldn't start the hurricane, that suggest to me it wasn't tested. I think that is a more than reasonable assumption, its not a crticism as such, my point is that as Luthier has stated the next patch will be the last, obviously it will be a beta first, however when bugs in that beta are addressed it will go to steam for official release after that its nothing for CLOD until the sequel, if the RC isn't tested thorougly before release at dev level then its going to be a long long wait for a fix.I'm sure you now see my point.

[Chivas]

Chivas, the dev's altered the fm of the allied aircraft in that patch, but failed to notice that by doing so you couldn't start the hurricane, that suggest to me it wasn't tested. I think that is a more than reasonable assumption, its not a crticism as such, my point is that as Luthier has stated the next patch will be the last, obviously it will be a beta first, however when bugs in that beta are addressed it will go to steam for official release after that its nothing for CLOD until the sequel, if the RC isn't tested thorougly before release at dev level then its going to be a long long wait for a fix.I'm sure you now see my point.

Still there are a number of scenario's where **** happens and things are missed or broken later when adding something they thought was unrelated. I'm sure you realize how massive the code is for COD and I've never heard of any sim being released in a beta or final state without bugs. Some more serious than others.

That said if the Sequel is still a year or two away I don't see any reason why the development wouldn't make a few small bug fixing patches, even some improved features that the community could test. They might have that in the back of their minds but are loathe to mention anything as they would be crucified even further on the forums for another perceived missed "promise". Anyway time will tell.

[Trumper]

I said weekend.

Let me walk you through it.....

Its 9:25pm on Friday, Blacksix says "I didn't expect 150 questions...please wait". The thread is still getting questions. He doesn't cut and run but he leaves the Question collection open right up until 10:29pm allowing us every chance to post our questions. What comes next? Ah yes, the weekend. 1C don't usually work weekends.

Did you really expect BlackSix and Luthier to sit up until 4a.m. reading through them all, compiling and rationalising them and answering them? If they don't have a life I expect their families do. If we get answers early on Monday you will at least know they sacrificed their weekend just to do it. Personally I don't expect replies for a couple of days.


I really am done with this one now.

You really don't need to be patronising,as you now admit you said weekend ,i didn't, and YES ,if your business is going down the pan [well reputation wise] then you do whatever you need to do to to put it right.
You are the one assuming not me.You mentioned 4 am i didn't.
As i stated ,many of us do work weekends and shifts ,what makes you think that they couldn't.
But as you are done with this because no-one else's point of view is ok i don't expect a reply.

[salmo]

Did I miss Luthier's reply to questions asked of him last Friday, or do we add his undertaking to respond to questions to the list of broken promises?

[jimbop]

Did I miss Luthier's reply to questions asked of him last Friday, or do we add his undertaking to respond to questions to the list of broken promises?

Well you certainly didn't just miss it. This honestly staggers me. I can understand missing development deadlines and coming across unexpected stumbling blocks but why break a promise that you didn't even need to make in the first place?

It seems to be a recurring theme: tell us something we want to hear to achieve immediate diffusion of forum tension but completely fail to follow up. Of course, this only results in long term resentment and deep distrust that will be remembered for years.

I just can't understand this approach. And I know for sure I would get fired for trying something similar on my clients!

[Tree_UK]

Well you certainly didn't just miss it. This honestly staggers me. I can understand missing development deadlines and coming across unexpected stumbling blocks but why break a promise that you didn't even need to make in the first place?

It seems to be a recurring theme: tell us something we want to hear to achieve immediate diffusion of forum tension but completely fail to follow up. Of course, this only results in long term resentment and deep distrust that will be remembered for years.

I just can't understand this approach. And I know for sure I would get fired for trying something similar on my clients!

Despite others thinking different I do honestly understand that he may have not been expecting so many questions, that said it would have taken 10 seconds to say sorry guys too many questions to go through tonight I will answer them next week, thats all it takes IMHO.

[kristorf]

As Tree says, I can understand that there were so many questions (what did they really expect from a disgruntled customer base?), but surely a quick
'Sorry peeps, so many Q's to go through it will be xxxxday before we can answer' would have placated the masses?

[Trumper]

Sorry but "little to no testing of the patch" doesn't make any sense. There will always be stuff they miss, THAT's THE WHOLE POINT of providing a beta test patch for the community.
Which is fine as long as all the findings are fixed BEFORE the sim is abandoned,that will be something we hope will happen otherwise you are left with a BETA game.

[jimbop]

Despite others thinking different I do honestly understand that he may have not been expecting so many questions, that said it would have taken 10 seconds to say sorry guys too many questions to go through tonight I will answer them next week, thats all it takes IMHO.

Sure. I don't even particularly care what the answers are (apart from SLI) since I think future progression is already clear: one more patch and probably a sequel.

I just can't understand Luthier's approach unless he simply doesn't view this forum as being at all important (very possible). But even then, why antagonise the situation? It isn't logical.

[Feathered_IV]

I know what you mean. It's more that it's so indicative of his way of half doing things. Sad to say, but I think the series deserves a better project leader than that.

[Falstaff]

As noted above above, even the simplest statement of intent turns into a mini-fiasco (for example, answering questions).

It is the mis-match between reality and spiel that is the most jarring, and it's still ongoing. No real comprehension or sense of the scale of the disappointment/disaster, just a quick nod and move quickly along to the next luke-warm hype statement. People cna deal with less-than-perfect, or even rubbish, if the people producing it are candid.

There appears to be very little coherence from one week to the next, and certainly no sense of structured project management. I get the impression of lurching from one mini-crisis to the next. A Readme for a beta patch?...another eddying mini drama all of its own.

You do wonder if there is enough competency at certain levels to put air in the tyres of an average family saloon car. And even then you'd want to check the pressure is what they say it is. And if it was done at all.

When the minor stuff seems such a struggle, no wonder the major stuff doesn't get a look-in (i.e. game-play, a BoB, weather etc)

I'm left with a sense of 'their-own-worst-enemies'. The level of self-harm inflicted seems immense and growing all the time...

[planespotter]

I know what you mean. It's more that it's so indicative of his way of half doing things. Sad to say, but I think the series deserves a better project leader than that.

Agree. This just someone who doesn't give a care anymore. It is work of a couple of hours (most of which I assume B6 does) to group and answer the questions - when you group there are probably only about 10 or 15 most asked ones.

I think maybe he was surprised (even for this project) how annoyed people were about his news and knows no matter what is said now, there is no going back. The team clear lacks self awareness saying 'no doubt you will agree we have supported this game more than any other developer would'. So if he actually read the feedback, it might shake his self image a bit, also because the feedback was identical here, on simhq and on sukhoi - 10% people positive, 20% don't care, 70% annoyed.

I keep checking to see if answers are posted, now it is three days instead of 'tonight'.

So the new question is: when are you going to answer the questions!!

[PotNoodles]

To be honest I don't think Luthier has a lot of questions to answer..I mean, put all the questions together and they amount to just one thing - Will the game be fixed in the next patch? My worst fear is that they release another patch that creates more problems then it solves. I think they should get the team that is working on the sequel this time and get them to beta test it instead of relying on their customers to do it for them, I didn't buy into this game to become a beta tester and it's about time they did something right for a change.

[Toni74]

they miss out on the easy option of posting a message to say it'll be delayed a bit. They really are their own worst enemies at times.

So true. Exactly what I'm thinking.

[SiThSpAwN]

Despite others thinking different I do honestly understand that he may have not been expecting so many questions, that said it would have taken 10 seconds to say sorry guys too many questions to go through tonight I will answer them next week, thats all it takes IMHO.

I agree Tree, that is really what is missing most on these forums, and I am not sure if its difference in cultures, or languages, but some common courtesies for customers are lacking somewhat.

Giving a time to expect something on an internet forum is a formula for disaster. He should have played that one a little safer, like, I will answer those questions sometime between tonight and 2013 :)

My response gives him a cushion of between now and Dec 31 2013 :)

[David Hayward]

Many of the "questions" were just thinly disguised insults. That might be a factor in the slow response.

[SiThSpAwN]

Many of the "questions" were just thinly disguised insults. That might be a factor in the slow response.

That is a good point too... people trying to get shots in, he has been away from the forums for awhile, while I find it hard to believe he hasnt peeked in here its possible he hadnt seen how jaded the forum has become... he might be in the fetal position on the floor of his apartment cuddling a pillow pet right now...

[kristorf]

Many of the "questions" were just thinly disguised insults. That might be a factor in the slow response.


The questions are easy to see, ditto with the insults.

It's just appears to show the usual contempt the paying customer is held in today.

[Trumper]

Many of the "questions" were just thinly disguised insults. That might be a factor in the slow response.

He is the head of the company developing this game and he can't answer the questions that have been asked over and over.
If you went into a factory to talk to someone high up i would expect that person to be able to answer the most asked questions off the top of there head.
2 or 3 people sorting the wheat from the chaff on the questions thread would'nt take more than a couple of hours and between them they SHOULD know the answers.
If they were getting ready to put the final patch onto it then surely they must know what's in it - - don't they??
If the patch does'nt repair this beta sim then it remains a beta sim.

[David Hayward]

The questions are easy to see, ditto with the insults.

It's just appears to show the usual contempt the paying customer is held in today.

From what I have seen on this forum the contempt is well deserved.

[Pudfark]

Well...you reap what you sow, David.

[David Hayward]

Well...you reap what you sow, David.

Yes, you do. Who do you think is going to produce a good WW2 flight sim if you force this team out of business?

[Falstaff]

David Hayward said:

From what I have seen on this forum the contempt is well deserved.

(I'll bite, since I forgot to log-in and so Ignore not working...)

Absolutely. You may want to consider in which direction, and who the recipient is.

Many of the "questions" were just thinly disguised insults.

As are many, if not all, of the reactive 'commentariat' remarks.

This forum has many different levels of insult, from the carefully deployed and implied, to the overt. The high-ground is great, but the game itself occupies the low ground. Lording it over such a disaster is never going to work. It would onyl work if the game invited high praise and a uniform respect - it doesn't, sadly.

[bongodriver]

.

http://www.rage3d.com/lupstuff/trumpeter.gif.

[David Hayward]

Absolutely. You may want to consider in which direction, and who the recipient is.


kristorf seems to think the contempt it directed at you. I tend to agree with him, and I think it's deserved.

[msalama]

...if you force this team out of business?

Eagle Dynamics perhaps?

[Pudfark]

Yes, you do. Who do you think is going to produce a good WW2 flight sim if you force this team out of business?

You couldn't mean me? I bought (into) it on April 16, 2011, 3 months before
the U.S. release and two days after I joined this forum.

Pretty tough to force anybody to do anything on the interweb.
Proof of that? The last 18 months here. Waiting. :)

[David Hayward]

Eagle Dynamics perhaps?

Why haven't they done it?

[David Hayward]

You couldn't mean me? I bought (into) it on April 16, 2011, 3 months before
the U.S. release and two days after I joined this forum.

Pretty tough to force anybody to do anything on the interweb.
Proof of that? The last 18 months here. Waiting. :)

18 months of complaining and insults. Eventually I would expect them to reconsider their dedication to producing a game for people who have nothing but contempt for them.

[Falstaff]

Bongodriver said:

Please try to find a better reason than my user name being bongodriver as a basis to report my posts.

Paranoia and/or flattering yourself?

I dont recall reporting your posts recently...I think the last I reported were Ace-of-Aces...?

But you do have a point. To me your name is a guarantee of quality in the crap-stirring department, hence why I usually have you and the other usual suspects on Ignore.

But gettingin to a spat with you...as you would no doubt like...that way madness lies...

Sorry, back on Ignore....

[bongodriver]

Bongodriver said:



Paranoia and/or flattering yourself?

I dont recall reporting your posts recently...I think the last I reported were Ace-of-Aces...?

But you do have a point. To me your name is a guarantee of quality in the crap-stirring department, hence why I usually have you and the other usual suspects on Ignore.

But gettingin to a spat with you...as you would no doubt like...that way madness lies...

Sorry, back on Ignore....

I just knew your ignorance was selective....

[Pudfark]

That's called taking care of business.
Or, business taking a turn.

Which it has.

This ain't a marriage...it's a deal.
Apparently, maybe, a deal breaker.
We'll all know, by the end of the day.

I hoping for a positive outlook.
You?

[JG52Uther]

Enough with the personal insults to each other or this thread is history and some of you will be on holiday.
Take it to PM if you want to continue your personal spats with each other.

[David Hayward]

We'll all know, by the end of the day.

I hoping for a positive outlook.
You?

I doubt the patch is going to be ready by the end of the day.

[kristorf]

kristorf seems to think the contempt it directed at you. I tend to agree with him, and I think it's deserved.

That's news to me, thanks for telling me..........

It is/was pointed towards 1C/MG and other companies in general, not forum users, but I suppose I can change my mind following your post fella

[David Hayward]

That's news to me, thanks for telling me..........

It is/was pointed towards 1C/MG and other companies in general, not forum users, but I suppose I can change my mind following your post fella


It's just appears to show the usual contempt the paying customer is held in today.

Yes, it was directed at 1C. You seem to think that they have contempt for you (aka, the paying customer).

[Chivas]

Which is fine as long as all the findings are fixed BEFORE the sim is abandoned,that will be something we hope will happen otherwise you are left with a BETA game.

That would depend on your definition of abandoned. We have no idea how many things will be fixed in COD before the release of the Sequel. IF you only plan to buy COD and never any of the Sequels, you will have a version of the game very few people will have. There is little hope they will support that version after the Sequels released. If the Sequel is successful, there will be continual support for the latest versions from the developer and community modders, and COD will only get better. Although its possible community modders could support the standalone COD, but its highly unlikely there will be enough of the community using that version.

[kristorf]

David,

OK, just that it appeared your post quoted me with ne referance to what your comment was aimed at, just confuddled me a tad...

[Walrus1]

I've got to say, this forum is a very strange environment for a 'company' forum.

The fact that most active participants are largely people who seem to hate the game, hate the developers and look for every opportunity to attack them makes it no surprise that Luthier doesn't post here very often.

'Freedom of speech' is a human right but it is not a private company forum right. If that is the rationale for allowing these boards to have become such a negative place than it is surely misguided.

Of course Luthier shouldn't say I will reply on Friday and then disappear. But communications here are poisoned because of the reason above.

[Falstaff]

You're right about the poision but I think it's a lot more complicated than that, and much could be cured not only by the devs fixing various elements, but fixing the line sof communication. Taking them seriously, for example. No, they dont owe anyone a living, but they do have a lot of ground to make up if the y want to sell more games IMO. If they dont, then I'd suggest they carry on as they have been.

[kendo65]

Wondered if the answers were still pending?

Or has Luthier been swamped by the sheer volume and number and decided he has more important things to do?

Or are they being prepared for this Friday?

Or do we have to keep guessing and speculating as to what is going on with this as we have done for the previous 18 months.

Thanks.
A disgruntled customer.

[furbs]

They dont work weekends....oh wait....

[Chivas]

I didn't realize all the answers would magically be done when they got to work Monday morning. My best guess... they'll have something done this week and post it as the Friday update.

[kendo65]

Hope so Chivas. Would be nice to get confirmation...of something...anything...?

[yobnaf]

Friday update coming? Oh that's great. Can't wait to download the new patch for this awesome sim.

[Chivas]

Hope so Chivas. Would be nice to get confirmation...of something...anything...?

I agree, but I really don't think they knew what was going to happen, and what they could say about it. I know if I worked for the development that took this long to produce a revenue stream, I would be surprised everyday I showed up to work that the development wasn't shut down. I'm sure many people have, but I certainly wouldn't want to work every day under that kind of pressure .
That said I think the development has turned a corner with the stability patch, and seem to have some assurances of financial support atleast until the Sequel's release. Hence the appearance of Luthier.

[CaptainDoggles]

You guys talking about how they don't work weekends forgot about this quote, yeah?

I'll be back at the end of the day to answer more of your questions.

Pretty standard for 1C lately. Over-promise, under-deliver.

Do we have to wait months for the answers like we're still waiting for the freaking README?

[kendo65]

I agree, but I really don't think they knew what was going to happen, and what they could say about it. I know if I worked for the development that took this long to produce a revenue stream, I would be surprised everyday I showed up to work that the development wasn't shut down. I'm sure many people have, but I certainly wouldn't want to work every day under that kind of pressure .
That said I think the development has turned a corner with the stability patch, and seem to have some assurances of financial support atleast until the Sequel's release. Hence the appearance of Luthier.

I really would have thought that the result of Luthier offering to answer questions after not being around for a few months would have been predictable.

That's not to underestimate the amount of time needed to wade through those 15 or whatever pages and write up answers...but that then leads to 'what could they say about it?', and that's simple really - "sorry guys, this is going to take a little time. We'll get back to you next week".

It's really a matter of common courtesy and common sense on this one.

I'm almost (but not quite ;) ) past caring to be honest, but it's just really crap public relations. They just never seem to learn.

I keep trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and hold in there, but they keep pointing that shotgun at their own feet and pulling the trigger.

Also, I'm not looking for apologies or whinging about paying £50 for the collector's edition or threatening not to buy the sequel (who am I kidding?) - I would just like them - for once - to do what they say they are going to do dammit! Especially on something that Luthier set up himself without any need or prompting from anyone else!!!!!

And yes, I have had a few 'ales' ;)

[Tree_UK]

To be fair there were a lot of questions, we could of helped Luthier by asking the question and then giving a multi choice answer. Something like this:

Question: Will SLI ever work?

1. Maybe No
2. Maybe Yes
3. Maybe not now but maybe not in BOM
4. It is our highest and lowest priority
5. Brown

[ATAG_Dutch]

Ken, you have to be fizzin joking. Haven't you seen enough of these threads already?

What we've got, we've got. What we're going to get is anybody's guess.

All contributors to this thread should get online and kill some Hun. It doesn't really matter whether it's in Cliffs of Dover or Rise of Flight. Just stop posting shite on the forums, fly some aeroplanes and have some fun.

Alternatively, kill some Tommies. I don't bloody care. Just play the game (s).

Hic.....

[Feathered_IV]

Has B6 said anything by way of explanation? He seems to have gone to ground on the subject too. :confused:

[CaptainDoggles]

I really would have thought that the result of Luthier offering to answer questions after not being around for a few months would have been predictable.

That's not to underestimate the amount of time needed to wade through those 15 or whatever pages and write up answers...but that then leads to 'what could they say about it?', and that's simple really - "sorry guys, this is going to take a little time. We'll get back to you next week".

It's really a matter of common courtesy and common sense on this one.

I'm almost (but not quite ;) ) past caring to be honest, but it's just really crap public relations. They just never seem to learn.

I keep trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and hold in there, but they keep pointing that shotgun at their own feet and pulling the trigger.

Also, I'm not looking for apologies or whinging about paying £50 for the collector's edition or threatening not to buy the sequel (who am I kidding?) - I would just like them - for once - to do what they say they are going to do dammit! Especially on something that Luthier set up himself without any need or prompting from anyone else!!!!!

And yes, I have had a few 'ales' ;)

Agree. It makes it seem like they don't care whether or not they deliver a quality product. They just want to string you along and promise that if you pay another 60 bucks it'll be fixed in the sequel.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Agree. It makes it seem like they don't care whether or not they deliver a quality product. They just want to string you along and promise that if you pay another 60 bucks it'll be fixed in the sequel.

OOooohhh yes. I'm sure you cannot possibly be wrong.

They released it. It was awful. They patched it to a new version, v1.05.

Since then, they've released a series of beta patches, all of which were worse.

No official version since when? Last November? Which version would that be then? Oh, yes...the same version they released last November.

Tum te tum te tummmmm.................

[RickRuski]

BlackSix has replied to Luthiers post regarding his replies, the answer was that they had over 150 questions from two forums and this was going to take a little longer to give answers to.

Now where are the priorities to go?

1= get the patch ready for final release.

2= sort out over 150 questions to give answers to (probably many of which have already been answered before)

[CaptainDoggles]

OOooohhh yes. I'm sure you cannot possibly be wrong.

They released it. It was awful. They patched it to a new version, v1.05.

Since then, they've released a series of beta patches, all of which were worse.

No official version since when? Last November? Which version would that be then? Oh, yes...the same version they released last November.

Tum te tum te tummmmm.................

Patches don't make a game/company great: EA releases patches for their games all the time. Do you think EA is a good company? Is the latest Call of Duty a good game?

The answer to both is no: EA's sole interest is selling you next year's COD sequel. They only do as much work as is necessary to get people to buy the next game.

Do you seriously think this next final patch will magically fix CLOD? I sure don't. Don't worry though, because they'll address all the concerns in the 60$ sequel. :rolleyes: How do we know the sequel won't be a complete failure like this game? How do we know they won't just continue to say nothing for weeks on end and then get angry when paying customers demand information on the product we paid for? Do we think this company will magically change and become the developer of our dreams after the legendary sequel comes out? I predict it'll be more of the same.

Maybe you can explain to me how a development team that releases a game in this state, releases a couple of mediocre patches that make the game worse for a lot of people, and then promise to fix things in the sequel indicates an interest in putting out a quality product instead of just a cash grab.

[ATAG_Dutch]

BlackSix has replied to Luthiers post regarding his replies, the answer was that they had over 150 questions from two forums and this was going to take a little longer to give answers to.

Now where are the priorities to go?

1= get the patch ready for final release.

2= sort out over 150 questions to give answers to (probably many of which have already been answered before)

Hmmmm..............

Blacksix has done this and Luthier said that and the wizard of oz is a real person who i went for a pint with only today.

Bit of reality injection required around here methinks.

[CaptainDoggles]

BlackSix has replied to Luthiers post regarding his replies, the answer was that they had over 150 questions from two forums and this was going to take a little longer to give answers to.

Now where are the priorities to go?

1= get the patch ready for final release.

2= sort out over 150 questions to give answers to (probably many of which have already been answered before)

Well we know that BlackSix isn't a software developer. IIRC he's a mission designer, so he has nothing to do with how fast the patch comes out.

If Luthier is the project lead then that means he's not writing any code either.

Therefore, answering questions should not push back the patch release by any appreciable amount. :rolleyes:

[ATAG_Dutch]

Patches don't make a game/company great: EA releases patches for their games all the time. Do you think EA is a good company? Is the latest Call of Duty a good game?

The answer to both is no: EA's sole interest is selling you next year's COD sequel. They only do as much work as is necessary to get people to buy the next game.

Do you seriously think this next final patch will magically fix CLOD? I sure don't. Don't worry though, because they'll address all the concerns in the 60$ sequel. :rolleyes: How do we know the sequel won't be a complete failure like this game? How do we know they won't just continue to say nothing for weeks on end and then get angry when paying customers demand information on the product we paid for? Do we think this company will magically change and become the developer of our dreams after the legendary sequel comes out? I predict it'll be more of the same.

Okey Dokey. Well here's a thought. Cliffs of Dover is without doubt the number one combat flight simulator which is prepared for the future. Other sims work well now, play well now, but Cliffs of Dover is prepared for the future. It wasn't supposed to be released when it was, it was supposed to be released when the best of technology could cope, on very low settings. As the old game was.

Unfortunately for the reputation of the game, it was pushed out as being ready NOW. It wasn't ready now at all.

Give it time chaps, give it time.

[hiro]

They ( devs) don't owe us those answers to the questions. Shoot they don't even have to be courteous or keep us updated. But they are already giving us the courtesy.

Anyone seen seInfeld and the soup Nazi knows if they have a good product they can be rude and get Ppl in . The devs have the ww2 flight sim realm by the balls, until another golden age where multiple companies making great games comes or until another sim of this magnitude comes out.

What they do Owe us is a successor to il2 series and one that wilL surpass expectation . But it will be in their time and on their terms. And it seems that's what they are doing.

Sometimes life isn't exactly what we want, when we want, or the way we want it.

Just be thankful they are working on it and more games in the series.

Duke nuke fans got 10+ years and a working but fundamentally mediocore game. And the devs ain't bothering On improving it

[CaptainDoggles]

Okey Dokey. Well here's a thought. Cliffs of Dover is without doubt the number one combat flight simulator which is prepared for the future.Being crap now does not mean it is well equipped for the future. There is a difference between an engine that is demanding on hardware, and one that is poorly written. One will work well on tomorrow's systems. The other will not.

[CaptainDoggles]

They ( devs) don't owe us those answers to the questions. Shoot they don't even have to be courteous or keep us updated. But they are already giving us the courtesy.

Anyone seen seInfeld and the soup Nazi knows if they have a good product they can be rude and get Ppl in . The devs have the ww2 flight sim realm by the balls, until another golden age where multiple companies making great games comes or until another sim of this magnitude comes out.

What they do Owe us is a successor to il2 series and one that wilL surpass expectation . But it will be in their time and on their terms. And it seems that's what they are doing.

Sometimes life isn't exactly what we want, when we want, or the way we want it.

Just be thankful they are working on it and more games in the series.

Duke nuke fans got 10+ years and a working but fundamentally mediocore game. And the devs ain't bothering On improving it

This attitude is the reason that we have to put up with the crap that so many game developers pull, like multiple-month delays between releasing a patch and releasing a list of what changes the patch made.

People are too willing to pay for mediocrity. You guys are all going to pre-order the sequel without knowing if it's any good or not, and you're going to keep enabling this company to behave poorly and release shoddy products.

[lonewulf]

I have no idea how many questions there are but if it's about 150 as has been suggested then reasonably speaking it's going to take at least a week of fairly solid effort to draft up the replies. As we all know, the answers to the questions (if and when they appear) are going to be analysed to death by the community. B/S and Luthier will be well aware of that. That being the case it's going to take multiple drafts (and several meetings I'd have thought) before they have a series of answers that are reasonably free of ambiguities yet sufficiently imprecise to allow for a bit of wiggle room. My guess would be this Friday at best or possibly next.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Being crap now does not mean it is well equipped for the future. There is a difference between an engine that is demanding on hardware, and one that is poorly written. One will work well on tomorrow's systems. The other will not.

Ah hah. And all of the people who post on this forum really know the difference do they?

I certainly bloody don't. Trouble is, far too many people who throw (ahem) faeces on this forum pretend they do do, but in reality know sweet F.A. (Fanny Adams in case I just broke a rule).

I saw this advert for a holiday in the Seychelles. It was really cheap. Certainly compared to a B&B in Bognor.....

Do you think i should book it? I mean, I've never been there before...............

[David Hayward]

I can tell.

Unless you're on the dev team, you don't know any more than him.

[ATAG_Dutch]

I can tell.

Then please, enlighten us all with your prescient foresight. Let me guess, you also believe that Hobbits are real, and Tolkien portrayed a genuinely credible version of pre-history.

How could you possibly know whether or not 'Cliffs of Dover' is designed to meet the technology of tomorrow?

Oh shit. That sounds like raaaaaid, doesn't it? :(

[CaptainDoggles]

That was rude, I apologize.

[ATAG_Dutch]

That was rude, I apologize.

No worries Doggles, and no need to delete the post. :)

It's just that I don't think any of the users of this software can confidently say that it was a 'timely' release, or otherwise.

Try running IL2 '46 on a celeron processor with 256mb of RAM and onboard graphics. Then come back and say 'the engine is not optimised'.

FSX with loads of add-ons still taxes my system. The software is always ahead of the hardware. Who's to say that this is not the same situation (apart from Ubi's marketing dept)?

[lokitexas]

Software hardly ever goes ahead of hardware unless you are 5+ years back on your hardware. Devleopers know they grab a bigger market by not having tomorrows specs on new games. CLoD is no different, its just not good.

If anyone needs proof (from a consumers point of view) of how crappy the CLoD engine is, load it up, on a decent PC, and still watch the microstutters, and other such messes. Watch flak freezes. Watch trees "spawn" in.

Seriously...what else do you need? Compare it to RoF, or DCS even.

You can fool yourself into thinking the engine is ahead of its time, truth is, it isnt very good.

If the devs actually make it long enough to release another game, lets hope they figure out how to make this engine work without taking away everything.

As far as the answers go...does it really surprise anyone that "Ill be back later to answer them" didnt happen? How many times can people keep getting lied to, strung along, broken promised, and hoodwinked until they finally say enough? According to some people here....quite a while I guess.