BS - (resolved)

[drifter11]

If you download Desastersoft campaigns Wick vs. Dundas make sure you save your copy because if you have to format your computer and want to redownload or buy the cd or dvd you can't..................:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x

[ATAG_Snapper]

That really sucks since Disastersoft must have your order on file. I always back up data, photos, videos, plug-in software etc to external hard drives for fear of a hard drive crash, but many people don't. Did Disastersoft give any reason why they wouldn't help you out?

[robtek]

There only can be a communication error.

[drifter11]

Nope more or less said to bad. I even told them I had a reciept and no reply....

[CaptainDoggles]

Nope more or less said to bad. I even told them I had a reciept and no reply....

File a dispute through paypal or your credit card company.

[ATAG_Doc]

Well now you've all been warned. Let this be one of your sim careers lessons. Never assume anything.

[tk471138]

we shouldnt have to BACK stuff up to retain what we had already paid for...


#1 that is why i ONLY buy boxed versions of games....so no BS can occur....

never spend money on something that you can hold in your hands !!!!!!! you would think that common sense would dictate this, but alas some people like giving their money away...

you should make threats to this company...but only threats that you will be willing to carry out....put the fear of god in to these people...

[drifter11]

E-mail I received this morning ... lesson learned You cannot re-download it. Also you cannot re-order a CD/DVD if you lost it. Save your Software!



Cheers

Thomas

[Meusli]

I asked them on their forums before I bought it if a backup was available. They said no back then. In today's world of steam downloads it does stick out as sort of odd but you have to imagine the cost of running such a system for what is essentially a small studio.

[CaptainDoggles]

E-mail I received this morning ... lesson learned You cannot re-download it. Also you cannot re-order a CD/DVD if you lost it. Save your Software!



Cheers

Thomas

That's f*cking bull that they won't give you another download.

Go pirate their stupid campaign. You paid for it legitimately. It doesn't cost them anything to send you another copy. What a joke.

[skouras]

already have save my copy
i knew that if something goes wrong im not would able to recover it:evil:
however this is not a solution

[furbs]

I would expect a rapid change of mind shortly.

[drifter11]

Sent them a e-mail saying I have a receipt for the download no reply back to playing silent hunter 5 for me.....:evil:

[Madfish]

Wasn't the company name desastersoft? :D Seriously, what a joke.

[CaptainDoggles]

desastersoft

Is this forum member (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/member.php?u=22804) the same "desastersoft"?

[Steuben]

If i buy a DVD Version of a game here in germany! Lets say the desastersoft addon! Can i go back to the store and demand a replacement of the DVD? Certainly not! Same if i download it! Deal with it! Its not the fault of desastersoft if you loose the software! Its your fault!

[JG52Krupi]

If i buy a DVD Version of a game here in germany! Lets say the desastersoft addon! Can i go back to the store and demand a replacement of the DVD? Certainly not! Same if i download it! Deal with it! Its not the fault of desastersoft if you loose the software! Its your fault!

Rubbish, I have bought software online before and have always being able to download it again or a few times at least.

[drifter11]

ok was wondering when some pinhead would say something like that....

[drifter11]

Steuben

[klem]

You paid for a licence.

Is it illegal then to get a copy from someone else? Presumably your licence is still valid?

[CaptainDoggles]

If i buy a DVD Version of a game here in germany! Lets say the desastersoft addon! Can i go back to the store and demand a replacement of the DVD? Certainly not! Same if i download it! Deal with it! Its not the fault of desastersoft if you loose the software! Its your fault!

A DVD costs them money to create, distribute and store.

A digital copy only costs them as much as their internet connection, which they already pay for.:rolleyes:

Furthermore, if you buy a DVD version you don't need to go back to the store if you format your drive. You can just re-install from the DVD as many times as you like. With desastersoft's stupid scheme, you can only install it once.

tl;dr think it through before you put your foot into your mouth.

[Slipstream2012]

If i buy a DVD Version of a game here in germany! Lets say the desastersoft addon! Can i go back to the store and demand a replacement of the DVD? Certainly not! Same if i download it! Deal with it! Its not the fault of desastersoft if you loose the software! Its your fault!

The difference is, that a CD/DVD version plus packaging would have to be mass produced, published & distributed. Which all costs money. so the store is not going to replace it if you lose it. And let say one did! how many people would buy the game from the store, only to have a friend return with the receipt claiming to be the original buyer to get a free copy. It would be very hard to track.

Internet purchases are a whole different thing, you create an account, pay with credit/debit card or paypal which is all linked up to your credentials, your IP is logged as well, so they have a pretty good idea who you are.
And the main point is, the files are downloaded from their server, no jewel case or DVD case with pretty pictures, no CD/DVD printing costs, just the cost of bandwidth for the download of the files.

Any company that respects their customers enough would do this without a problem.
These sound like a bunch of money hoarding b£s$%6ds

next time think before you type!

Rant over!

[drifter11]

I'll 2nd that Slipstream2012:grin:

[brando]

Most respectable firms will replace a downloaded software, needing only the client's email address and an agreed password to verify the action.

[Bounder!]

Pretty poor show from Desastersoft imo, I am yet to purchase their campaign and this sort of thing dissuades me from doing so.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Pretty poor show from Desastersoft imo, I am yet to purchase their campaign and this sort of thing dissuades me from doing so.

Don't blame you!

I have the Campaign (English) addon. It's good value IMHO. It plays well on my system, seems to be well thought out. It's what Cliffs of Dover SHOULD have had, instead of the sorry debacles that actually came with the game. After a couple of missions I decided to stop playing until my AI wingmen "woke up"! Not the fault of Disastersoft whatsoever, but their Campaign will play infinitely better once the MG devs fix the AI.

With the dedicated 1C community lined up to be their word-of-mouth promoters of their excellent product, it's unfathomable that a company like Disastersoft would allow a hard headed clerical decision compromise this community's goodwill in screwing one of its members so cavalierly!

[Codex]

Funny ...

All pictures on their site show their software packaged as "PC-DVD", even the download only versions ... false advertising right there.

[zapatista]

Sent them a e-mail saying I have a receipt for the download no reply back to playing silent hunter 5 for me.....:evil:

thx for the warning

i intended to get one of their campaigns as an addon for CoD (now that i can run it since the last beta patch), but i wont buy it now !

if we buy a game on cd/dvd, and we loose the dvd or damage it, i can understand a company not having to replace it because we actually had "the goods" and lost them or damaged them. its a straight forward issue (yet a few companies/stores will still do it, if you have proof of purchase etc...)

but for an internet download of a program that is sitting on a pc made of unreliable hardware and very temperamental OS software that is prone to become corrupted/damaged/crashed (or even stop functioning if you replace some hardware elements), its absurd and very bad business practice of them to not assist you and allow 1 or 2 re-downloads with proof of purchase supplied

i would suggest you give the same warning to CoD users on some of the other main CoD forums, like ubi forums and simhq. with them loosing sales over it (as they should), they will either wise up quickly or become non existent because of their bad customer service and greedy inefective "business model"

[desastersoft]

Gentlemen!

At first the customer is responcable for his software to save it or put it on a place where he can find it. We made redownloads a hundred times, because of some customers forget where they put there downloads in! So, this is NOT our Job! This costs Time and money. Download Traffic is not for free here. We pay for it.

At second: Without any information than an E-Mail, we cannot veryfy a customer. The minimum to recover is the Bill. There are the informations in.

Every customer, who sended us full informations had ever get a redownload. But an E-Mail with:

"How do I redownload Fighter Aces! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas ? I had to format my computer thanks.

RIPOFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"

is not enough! Sorry, that´s Kindergarten Language.

Cheers
Thomas

[CaptainDoggles]

Gentlemen!

At first the customer is responcable for his software to save it or put it on a place where he can find it. We made redownloads a hundred times, because of some customers forget where they put there downloads in! So, this is NOT our Job! This costs Time and money. Download Traffic is not for free here. We pay for it.

At second: Without any information than an E-Mail, we cannot veryfy a customer. The minimum to recover is the Bill. There are the informations in.

Every customer, who sended us full informations had ever get a redownload. But an E-Mail with:

"How do I redownload Fighter Aces! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas ? I had to format my computer thanks.

RIPOFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"

is not enough! Sorry, that´s Kindergarten Language.

Cheers
Thomas

Your customer service is bad, and you should feel bad.

[Havoc04]

Errrr revised LOL

[drifter11]

I see you got the ripoff e-mail that I sent and you didn't reply to the ones sent with saying I had a receipt. for the campaign.........

[zapatista]

I see you got the ripoff e-mail that I sent and you didn't reply to the ones sent with saying I had a receipt. for the campaign.........

it sounds like you now have their attention and they are now willing to help you if you email them the right information (payment details etc), i would suggest you do that and be civilized in that process so they are not given an excuse for not helping you resolve it

if they still dont resolve it then, let us know.

[drifter11]

Sent proof of purchase to them, lets see what happens next!

[svend]

If you download Desastersoft campaigns Wick vs. Dundas make sure you save your copy because if you have to format your computer and want to redownload or buy the cd or dvd you can't..................:-x:-x:-x:-x:-x

Yes, same happen to me. I lost the installer as I forgot to back up the software :P

Should I buy it again? :)))

[zapatista]

At first the customer is responcable for his software to save it or put it on a place where he can find it.

yes, but pc's are an unreliable medium and things DO go wrong at times. do you really expect teenagers downloading games (whom are the majority group in downloading games) to be "professional" how they back things up and safeguard them ?

We made redownloads a hundred times, because of some customers forget where they put there downloads in!
maybe you need to provide clearer instructions with your program downloads instead of blaming customers and dealing with them like they are a nuisance ?

So, this is NOT our Job!
of course it is, its called customer service !

This costs Time and money. Download Traffic is not for free here. We pay for it. that is probably the worst attempt at a lame excuse. your product costs 30$ as a download online, and you cant afford to resend it to the 5 or 10% of your customers who need a re-download ?

At second: Without any information than an E-Mail, we cannot veryfy a customer. The minimum to recover is the Bill. There are the informations in.

Every customer, who sended us full informations had ever get a redownload.

he already did, but you were deliberately unresponsive or overlooked it


But an E-Mail with:

"How do I redownload Fighter Aces! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas ? I had to format my computer thanks.
RIPOFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

is not enough! Sorry, that´s Kindergarten Language.

your best customers (the largest group of potential "good" customers) will be teenagers who impulse buy, learn to deal with them ! and the email you quoted (and magically were able to find instantly when a complaint suddenly risks affecting your revenue) is one that the customer sent after previously providing you with the required information you need, and you BEING UNRESPONSIVE, now wake up and do the right thing instead of complaining about the customer who has the problem !

[addman]

I think desastersoft needs to work on their PR. If they just re-sent/linked the guy a new download then they would've saved themselves this ensuing embarrassment. Geez, losing many potential customers because you can't help an existing one out, very bad business practice, back to school boys!

[svend]

You paid for a licence.

Is it illegal then to get a copy from someone else? Presumably your licence is still valid?

I belive so Klem, but that`s not the way to do it :)

[zapatista]

Yes, same happen to me. I lost the installer as I forgot to back up the software :P

Should I buy it again? :)))

no of course you shouldnt go and buy it again

as their representative posting here claims, if you send them your detailed information with purchase info they will be able to help you

if they dont, make sure you post it here and on other flightsim forums to warn other potential customers to stay away from their products. and if they dont resolve this quickly and efficiently, give some blunt feedback at online retailers where they sell their products to warn other people, like at http://www.amazon.de/Fliegerasse-Helmut-Wick-J-C-Dundas/dp/B0053EO6VC (scroll to the bottom of the page where people can post feedback)

providing "game downloads' online has a huge cost advantage for the creators of these products, by very significantly reducing production and distribution costs (as well as removing the middle man commissions). the least they can do is have some decent customer service that addresses potential issues with that distribution medium that is otherwise so advantageous for them (and good documentation, and maybe a good installer program that maybe even automates the making of a backup ?).

[tintifaxl]

providing "game downloads' online has a huge cost advantage for the creators of these products, by very significantly reducing production and distribution costs

To be fair, they do offer the download product ~30% cheaper than the DVD version. What many online distributors like Steam and Origin don't do.

Should have handled the op's problem better, though.

[svend]

no of course you shouldnt go and buy it again

as their representative posting here claims, if you send them your detailed information with purchase info they will be able to help you

if they dont, make sure you post it here and on other flightsim forums to warn other potential customers to stay away from their products. and if they dont resolve this quickly and efficiently, give some blunt feedback at online retailers where they sell their products to warn other people, like at http://www.amazon.de/Fliegerasse-Helmut-Wick-J-C-Dundas/dp/B0053EO6VC (scroll to the bottom of the page where people can post feedback)

providing "game downloads' online has a huge cost advantage for the creators of these products, by very significantly reducing production and distribution costs (as well as removing the middle man commissions). the least they can do is have some decent customer service that addresses potential issues with that distribution medium that is otherwise so advantageous for them (and good documentation, and maybe a good installer program that maybe even automates the making of a backup ?).

I just mailed them attached the order number info (the mail I received from them when ordering). I was very polite - so lets se what happen :)

[Flanker35M]

S!

Hmm..I always save my receipts from ANY online purchase. With PayPal it is even easier. Never had problems with any company. Backing up your stuff should be a BASIC thing to do..really. And the right way to deal with an issue is NOT come to a forum not even related to the company in question but contacting directly the company with all details required. Makes life much easier for both sides.

[Madfish]

Gentlemen!

At first the customer is responcable for his software to save it or put it on a place where he can find it. We made redownloads a hundred times, because of some customers forget where they put there downloads in!So you DO offer re-downloads but only to a chosen few? Probably some friends of yours? Great business attitude.

So, this is NOT our Job! This costs Time and money. Download Traffic is not for free here. We pay for it.Traffic costs you nothing if you're using an even semi-acceptable provider. You're offering a niche product here and I doubt you'll ever even break the traffic limits of even shared or value hosting. Everyone who's working with websites will laugh at you if you're posting such rubbish pulicly.

At second: Without any information than an E-Mail, we cannot veryfy a customer. The minimum to recover is the Bill. There are the informations in.He stated he sent you an e-mail saying that he had a receipt. Instead of NOT replying it is YOUR JOB to at least reply and provide instructions. For guys who can't even set up a proper website and downloads you're demanding a lot of your customers who might not be as computer savvy to begin with. :rolleyes:

Every customer, who sended us full informations had ever get a redownload. But an E-Mail with:

"How do I redownload Fighter Aces! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas ? I had to format my computer thanks.

RIPOFF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"

is not enough! Sorry, that´s Kindergarten Language.You ignored his other e-mails. And EVEN IF that was his first mail: I can understand the frustration of a customer when trying to find out for hours where to re-download the campaign.

First of all it's rude to post e-mail content and in some cases even violates law.
Secondly you can't blame the customer for reacting in a bad manner if you put up a bad service to begin with. Work on your flaws first - you're not the customer here.

Cheers
ThomasI assume that's irony, considering the service you usually seem to deliver...

Ever heard of "Kunde ist König"? I cannot believe you're living in the same country as I do. If we'd put up such a service we'd go bankrupt within a day. :rolleyes:

[desastersoft]

So you DO offer re-downloads but only to a chosen few? Probably some friends of yours? Great business attitude.

Traffic costs you nothing if you're using an even semi-acceptable provider. You're offering a niche product here and I doubt you'll ever even break the traffic limits of even shared or value hosting. Everyone who's working with websites will laugh at you if you're posting such rubbish pulicly.

He stated he sent you an e-mail saying that he had a receipt. Instead of NOT replying it is YOUR JOB to at least reply and provide instructions. For guys who can't even set up a proper website and downloads you're demanding a lot of your customers who might not be as computer savvy to begin with. :rolleyes:

You ignored his other e-mails. And EVEN IF that was his first mail: I can understand the frustration of a customer when trying to find out for hours where to re-download the campaign.

First of all it's rude to post e-mail content and in some cases even violates law.
Secondly you can't blame the customer for reacting in a bad manner if you put up a bad service to begin with. Work on your flaws first - you're not the customer here.

I assume that's irony, considering the service you usually seem to deliver...

Ever heard of "Kunde ist König"? I cannot believe you're living in the same country as I do. If we'd put up such a service we'd go bankrupt within a day. :rolleyes:

Sie mutmaßen ziemlich viel ohne den Sachverhalt auch nur im entferntesten zu kennen. Da Sie ja Deutsch sprechen einmal klipp und klar: Wir bieten keinen Steam Service an. Das bedeutet, das der Kunde ab Auslieferung des Downloads selbst für den Verbleib und Umgang verantwortlich ist. Sollte so ein Service gewünscht werden, sprich die ständige Wiederabrufbarkeit, dann wäre das, genau wie bei Steam und anderen Anbietern, kostenpflichtig. Falls Sie nun argumentieren, Steam würde nichts kosten, so täuschen Sie sich gewaltig. Dieser Service macht bei Steam etwa 30 % der Kosten für die Anbieter aus. Der Kunde zahlt das über den Preis bei Steam mit beim Kauf von Software.
Die Downloads die wir für andere Kunden wieder freigeschaltet haben, waren unmittelbar nach dem Kauf, nicht 4 Monate später.

Gruß
Thomas

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Truly appalling, and extremely unprofessional conduct. Whilst the OP might have been a little more "diplomatic" with his language and perhaps a little more measured, a supposedly professional outfit should* know how to deal with irate/angry customers correctly and in a temperate manner as a matter of course, and certainly not publish details of what should be private correspondence, and get into a public slinging match.

OT, but nothing surprises me from Mr Thomas "Desastersoft" tbh. This thread here will tell you all about what you are dealing with, and their "interesting" take on History. (pages 15-17).

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=25068&highlight=desastersoft&page=15

A complete wazzik, or as we colloquially refer to them here in the North East, a Doylem. :grin: OMG, an infraction (or ban). Don't care. Sick of these Teutonic Knight Revisionist plonker wanabees; who probably bash their Bishops to reruns of the Nuremburg rallies in full ebay acquired Totenkopf replica regalia, (shooting their load to the strains of Wagner and "Hitlers greatest speeches") and are essentially skidmarks upon the Y-Fronts of Humanity. :)

Yes, its 'only a game' of course, agreed absolutely ( I love flying blue) and thats the way it should be.....but when people use these things to push agendas which are completely divorced from reality, have nothing whatsoever to do with the game, and are blatant lies it tends to get my goat. AndyJWest (now banned) was absolutely right, and I salute him.

Anyway, back OT.....yes, disgraceful conduct but not surprising in the least. I bought all of Desastersofts IL2 stuff (which to be fair were excellent), but will never buy a single thing from them again on principle. The price point alone was a joke initially (unless its now went down), and now they are crying about their costs and overheads (LOL!) and thinking people were born yesterday.

No, I don't want to (and won't) discuss what was mentioned before, just making a point of why I don't think very much of the bloke (understatement of the century), and this appalling conduct just reaffirms that view.

Hilarious. I'm probably 'off on holiday' now lol...but the Truth has Many Martyrs (no justice in this world :)). Never mind, eh. :)

[addman]

It's quite simple, give the customer what he wants before you lose even more potential customers. The more you try to argue the more you lose. Incredible.

[svend]

Backup is easy, but as we are humans we can forget :P Even a backup or two will not garanti anything - backup on external HDD no garanti, backup on USB no garanti (it can be stolen you can loose it, HDD crash).

It`s not Thomas fault that I didnt remember to backup and it`s not his fault eigher if my backup media crashes. I will say though that it`s always an good idea to help out customers if they provide him with order info - a 2nd chance so to speak ;)

I dont know if he will reply to my mail with a good solution - we have to see (he got my order mail and that should be enough).

[banned]

Sie mutmaßen ziemlich viel ohne den Sachverhalt auch nur im entferntesten zu kennen. Da Sie ja Deutsch sprechen einmal klipp und klar: Wir bieten keinen Steam Service an. Das bedeutet, das der Kunde ab Auslieferung des Downloads selbst für den Verbleib und Umgang verantwortlich ist. Sollte so ein Service gewünscht werden, sprich die ständige Wiederabrufbarkeit, dann wäre das, genau wie bei Steam und anderen Anbietern, kostenpflichtig. Falls Sie nun argumentieren, Steam würde nichts kosten, so täuschen Sie sich gewaltig. Dieser Service macht bei Steam etwa 30 % der Kosten für die Anbieter aus. Der Kunde zahlt das über den Preis bei Steam mit beim Kauf von Software.
Die Downloads die wir für andere Kunden wieder freigeschaltet haben, waren unmittelbar nach dem Kauf, nicht 4 Monate später.

Gruß
Thomas
*You suspect a good deal without knowing the facts even remotely. Since you speak German again loud and clear We do not provide steam to service. This means that the customer after delivery of the download, even for the retention and handling charge. If such a service is desired, ie the constant Wiederabrufbarkeit, that would be, just like on Steam and other providers charge. If you argue now that Steam would cost nothing, you are mistaken enormous. This service makes on Steam for about 30% of the cost of the supplier. The customer pays the price on Steam with the purchase of software. The downloads that we have released to other customers again were immediately after the purchase, not 4 months later.
* *

[banned]

Wow, was about to purchase the 'Disastersoft' stuff. No way now. Pretty poor customer service. I've messed up different downloads in the past and never been charged again.
Wonder what their profit margin is?
Anyway, no purchase from me. My little protest.

[Matt255]

I wonder what people did back in the day when there were no digital download services like Steam around and people bought a CD/DVD and lost it then.

Or even with those games on floppy discs, long before the Internet was used to complain about everything.:-P

I'll probably lose my car now and sue the manufacturer.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Matt255..they sucked it up and went on. Today there are so many crybabies and whiners, just because the idiotic phrase "Customer is always right". They are to an extent but these days it is just a system to be abused blatantly. I lost a CD..so what did I do? Got a new one..

No backup is fool proof, but if you do not backup, your loss. Of course losing a backup can happen but again not the most propable cause. Storm in a glass of water again..

[banned]

I wonder what people did back in the day when there were no digital download services like Steam around and people bought a CD/DVD and lost it then.

Or even with those games on floppy discs, long before the Internet was used to complain about everything.:-P

I'll probably lose my car now and sue the manufacturer.
Good point mate. :)

Perhaps if they explained it like that they may have had a better response, instead of being frig wits. Data is different than a CD or a car though mate. Perhaps if these people sent us disks with the product on it we can tuck the disk away just in case the comp blows up. Now that's a great idea.

[Flanker35M]

S!

What stops you making a backup CD or DVD yourself to tuck away, problem solved ;)

[bongodriver]

S!

What stops you making a backup CD or DVD yourself to tuck away, problem solved ;)


Some people don't like solving their own problems.

[addman]

S!

What stops you making a backup CD or DVD yourself to tuck away, problem solved ;)

Still, poorly handled. Also, what's up with the 21€ shipping costs within the EU? That should be like 5€, tops!

[Matt255]

Perhaps if they explained it like that they may have had a better response, instead of being frig wits.
I would have a hard time writing a friendly response to the OP to be honest. The topic title alone says it all IMO. I think no response from desastersoft would've been best though.


Data is different than a CD or a car though mate. Perhaps if these people sent us disks with the product on it we can tuck the disk away just in case the comp blows up. Now that's a great idea.
Yeah well, my car comment was a bit an exaggeration obviously. Still, even data costs money. Having an employer check the claim, explaining to the customer to download it again and supplying a protected download link, then probably explain a bit more how he can make a backup, this all costs money. And all that because the customer didn't make a backup of a 25 EUR (or how much was it originally?) product.

As far as I see, they offer almost all expansions as DVD, but understandably, this costs more money. Maybe they would be better off, if they would offer all expansions for the same price, regardless of DVD or digital download. But I guess the same people would then complain about the digital download not being cheaper than the DVD, even though it should be.


Still, poorly handled. Also, what's up with the 21€ shipping costs within the EU? That should be like 5€, tops!
Insured shipping via DHL to EU costs atleast 15 EUR, via Hermes 10 EUR, without packaging. So they should offer it for 5 EUR and lose money? Very funny. What company do you work for?

[ATAG_Snapper]

A simple "Here ya go" from Disastersoft would've bought them incredible good will. Sure, they're under no obligation to replace a lost product, so they didn't. Good for them. But it's already cost them more than the 5 minutes it would take to pull up an account, verify the purchase, and simply send a link to download.

Yes, I've got "Wick vs Dundas"; it's an excellent product. But I'm done with future purchases from them. They clearly have enough customers as it is.

[TynMahn]

The company handled this situation poorly. Granted that they have a bit of a point in that how are they responsible for a product that was purchased from them and delivered as agreed. However, even if an frustrated customer rants about your company (whether justified or not), common sense dictates that it is probably not a good pr move to engage in a spitting contest with that customer on another forum. Even worse, to post a quasi-rant in a language foreign to the language being spoken on that board.

As far as re-downloads are concerned, again, I say, the company really is in the right in so much as, he bought a product, they delivered it. It is his responsibility now. However, re-downloads are allowed in such a vast majority of all downloaded software internet purchases as to make it almost common practice. If you do NOT offer them, it is, again, probably good PR to make sure that it is apparent at the time of purchase that a re-download is not available or only available in certain, specific circumstances.

Last thought, if it does cost the company a slight overhead cost to offer re-downloads, then they should offer their customers the option of paying that overhead...again, good PR (of coarse making this clear at time of purchase).

My $.02

[DarkKiller]

Falls Sie nun argumentieren, Steam würde nichts kosten, so täuschen Sie sich gewaltig. Dieser Service macht bei Steam etwa 30 % der Kosten für die Anbieter aus.

I hardly belive that. Lets take for example a game like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (I don't like the game but it's okay for my example). I guess the game is 7 gb large. Lets say in my whole life time I would download it 10 times which generates 70 gb of traffic. 30% of 49.99€ is 15€. So you say that steam pays 0.21€ per gb of traffic? Either the managment of Steam is very stupid or I am pretty bad informed about very high traffic prices in the US or you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

Edit: The quote in English:

If you argue now that Steam would cost nothing, you are mistaken enormous. This service makes on Steam for about 30% of the cost of the supplier. The customer pays the price on Steam with the purchase of software.

[banned]

Some people don't like solving their own problems.
Oh Christ, he's back.

[bongodriver]

Oh Christ, he's back.

You going to throw another jealous rage?

[Bokononist]

A simple "Here ya go" from Disastersoft would've bought them incredible good will. Sure, they're under no obligation to replace a lost product, so they didn't. Good for them. But it's already cost them more than the 5 minutes it would take to pull up an account, verify the purchase, and simply send a link to download.

Yes, I've got "Wick vs Dundas"; it's an excellent product. But I'm done with future purchases from them. They clearly have enough customers as it is.

Yes indeed, I think they've lost more revenue in lost sales due to this little episode than they ever would from offering repeat downloads for legitimate customers. Shame really as I was intending to buy this myself.
Not to mention reproducing the ops email to try to defend themselves.
Poor show all round.

[Matt255]

I hardly belive that. Lets take for example a game like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (I don't like the game but it's okay for my example). I guess the game is 7 gb large. Lets say in my whole life time I would download it 10 times which generates 70 gb of traffic. 30% of 49.99€ is 15€. So you say that steam pays 0.21€ per gb of traffic? Either the managment of Steam is very stupid or I am pretty bad informed about very high traffic prices in the US or you don't have any idea what you are talking about.
Well, the 30% seems to be commonly spread around. Wether or not it's true is probably a different thing, but it's probably a good average.

You might download MW3 10 times, i highly doubt it's the average. I don't think i downloaded any game i have on steam more than 5 times, most games probably just once or twice. And very few were in the ~5 GB range.

And i don't think that Valve pays the same for a GB of traffic as the average user does.

But even if 30% would be too low for Steam to make profit, as you are suggesting, it shows relatively clearly that Desastersoft has a point in not supplying re-downloads for free. Which kind of proves, that he does know what he's talking about.

Yes indeed, I think they've lost more revenue in lost sales due to this little episode than they ever would from offering repeat downloads for legitimate customers.
Actually, this topic made me visit Desastersofts website for the first time. And i'm a bit tempted to order now, to be honest (and make a backup :-P).

If i wouldn't order anything from a developer that shows lacking customer support or has a bad reputation, i don't think i would've ordered anything at all in the past few years. Certainly not this flightsim.:rolleyes:

[icarus]

I sent a nice polite email requesting one extra download in order to make a backup with my receipt of purchase, because I was not aware that there would be only one download allowed. I will report back on the results.

[svend]

I cant se why anyone interested in their software shouldnt buy from them. Yes some of us forgot to do a backup and so what :) I mailed them politely and explained to see if there where any light at the end of the tunnel (it aint their fault). If you dont try you will never know. I can accept the loss, lol and no rant from me - if I fail ok so what :P They could change their mind, who knowa :)

[Madfish]

Sie mutmaßen ziemlich viel ohne den Sachverhalt auch nur im entferntesten zu kennen. Da Sie ja Deutsch sprechen einmal klipp und klar: Wir bieten keinen Steam Service an. Das bedeutet, das der Kunde ab Auslieferung des Downloads selbst für den Verbleib und Umgang verantwortlich ist. Sollte so ein Service gewünscht werden, sprich die ständige Wiederabrufbarkeit, dann wäre das, genau wie bei Steam und anderen Anbietern, kostenpflichtig. Falls Sie nun argumentieren, Steam würde nichts kosten, so täuschen Sie sich gewaltig. Dieser Service macht bei Steam etwa 30 % der Kosten für die Anbieter aus. Der Kunde zahlt das über den Preis bei Steam mit beim Kauf von Software.
Die Downloads die wir für andere Kunden wieder freigeschaltet haben, waren unmittelbar nach dem Kauf, nicht 4 Monate später.

Gruß
Thomas
You are kidding right? Do you even know anything about game distribution? 30% of what? Costs for the publishers? Nonsense. 25% at max and I already am an enemy of steam because that's WAY too much for the service.
If you can't handle your traffic you could've just asked. I would have even went so far and helped you. Not anymore though.

On top of that most Steam games deliver 10x their size in updates alone. How many updates are you pushing out? And if you do - would that count as an re-download or do your clients have to purchase again just to be able to access a patch?

What's even more scary: all this rubbish you're saying isn't even part of your TOS (AGB). I couldn't even find any TOS on english either although your shop clearly has an english frontend for international customers AND you ship to them.
Yet you expect everyone to be professional while you and your service clearly aren't...? :rolleyes:

Even more sad: I just went to your page and checked the downloadable editions and there is NO word about the one time download policy! There's just a box about shipping although it's not even boxed content! Very professional... So basically 90% of your customers don't even know they only get one single download... Or do you expect them to crawl through your german (and useless) AGB with a translator?


Instead of finding excuses you could've just said: whatever, we'll let him re-download and we will work on our shop to make clear that every purchase needs to be backed up as it is just a single download and the link will not work anymore when accessed once.
You could've also said that you will work on your content platform in general and eventually even just try to evaluate if PATCHES and RE-DOWNLOADS can be offered to your CLIENTS. :rolleyes:
I am certain that even if you would've said it costs like 50c or a € to re-download the stuff people would've understood. But this? This is just insane. It's worthless bits and bytes - and traffic costs pennies, not diamonds.


Your logic is just poor. I won't even begin to discuss the countless possibilities and eventualities why your model can and will go wrong for many honest customers. But I guarantee you, I will never ever recommend buying from you to anyone in my whole life. Because the way you handled this incident is alarming and it reeks of excuses instead of business attitude.


And on a sidenote: Yes, I'm german. But this is an international community and your shop is also partly english. My english certainly isn't perfect but it's a matter of respect (and board rules) to talk English on an international board even if it's not your major language.

[skarden]

Yeah I too think that they've handled this quiet poorly , don't get me wrong I have one of their products and love it, although I've only played it a little due to being away on work most of the year.

Before my current job I worked in retail for a family owned music shop ( guitars, recording gear etc. ) and they definitely didn't work on a "the customer is always right" policy, rather they worked on a customer by customer basis and they trusted and allowed the employees to do what we felt was best in each case, this single rule earned the shop a very good reputation amongst its customer base, it wasn't uncommon to have someone come in with say a newish guitar lead that had stopped working, if they brought in a receipt and presented themselves in a polite manner, we would normally give them a new lead at no cost even if we couldn't recoup the cost from the supplier, as I said before this kind of thing earned us a very loyal fan base that often brought in friends n such into the shop to buy gear as a result.

As has been stated by a few here this kind of behavior by Desastersoft would have earned them a very loyal customer, it sounds like the first few emails the OP polite and courteous and he gave them no real reason to say no since he was prepared to offer a receipt to prove his purchase, a little going out of your way to help your customers goes a LONG way in their eye's, I know this for a fact.

Those who give the old " if you lost your CD back in the day could you just go in and get a new one for free" or "if I lost my car can I just get another "are not being realistic in any way, this IS NOT a car or a tangible product and this IS NOT "back in the day" , this is the day of digital downloads and all the benefits that it brings, including but definitely not limited to being able to download another copy if something happened to your copy, this is the only time I've heard of a digital download service not offering this, and I've downloaded a butt load of games and add-ons, and especially considering the relative small size of the Desastersoft download I find it more then a little silly that they wont help him out.

Fairly poor form on their behalf , I honestly hope they come to their senses on this as unfortunately I think it'll cost them quiet a lot as far as their reputation goes here and maybe else where, which is a shame as they do do an excellent top notch product in a very small niche market that needs all the products like this it can get.

[TynMahn]

I do own this product and have to say, this incident of apparently poor decision on customer service side, the product is very well done and worth the purchase.

[icarus]

I sent a nice polite email requesting one extra download in order to make a backup with my receipt of purchase, because I was not aware that there would be only one download allowed. I will report back on the results.

The reply:

Please hit the Link of the Original Download E-Mail. You can Download two times again.



Cheers

Thomas

[svend]

The reply:

Please hit the Link of the Original Download E-Mail. You can Download two times again.



Cheers

Thomas

Glad you made it :) I have not gotten any reply from them yet.

[addman]

A simple "Here ya go" from Disastersoft would've bought them incredible good will. Sure, they're under no obligation to replace a lost product, so they didn't. Good for them. But it's already cost them more than the 5 minutes it would take to pull up an account, verify the purchase, and simply send a link to download.

Yes, I've got "Wick vs Dundas"; it's an excellent product. But I'm done with future purchases from them. They clearly have enough customers as it is.

Exactly what I meant! Sometimes you have to think a step ahead when dealing with customers. Good that this whole thing was revealed though because I won't buy jack from them.

[tintifaxl]

Glad you made it :) I have not gotten any reply from them yet.

But you could try to do the same :grin:

[ATAG_Snapper]

Exactly what I meant! Sometimes you have to think a step ahead when dealing with customers. Good that this whole thing was revealed though because I won't buy jack from them.

The power of the Internet is phenomenal, especially WRT niche products like a PC flight combat sim. It can either work for you (if you're smart) or against you -- as we see here. For 30 years I dealt with customers selling them fine wines, premium spirits, and specialty liquors. Complaints were not frequent, but they weren't uncommon, either. Lots can go wrong -- defective product due to leakage, exposure to extreme temperatures in storage or shipping, "corked" wine (bad cork), etc etc etc. Most complaints were valid -- the majority of customers are honest. Some complaints were suspect. ALL were handled quickly and courteously, even the suspicious ones. Product replaced promptly, with apologies. Any damages incurred handled expeditiously -- we had some discretion there to satisfy the customer. In 99.9% of cases the customers were so impressed by our sincere concern to put things right that they remained staunch clients AND spread the word. The 0.1% - less than that, really - where an outlandish claim for damages was made....well, that's why you have legal depts. LOL

I'm now in the digital photo/video end of things and I've found the majority of camera & accessory suppliers to be the same. The odd time I've had a problem -- and I'm polite on my end - I'm pleased to say they've always responded in kind. It's just good business!

[Matt255]

You are kidding right? Do you even know anything about game distribution? 30% of what? Costs for the publishers? Nonsense. 25% at max and I already am an enemy of steam because that's WAY too much for the service.
30% of the final price on Steam.

You say: Valve, please put it on your shop for 49.99 EUR.
Valve says: OK, we keep 30% from that for ourself.

(that's how it read it is usually being done, doesn't have to be correct, i'm sure publishers can discuss that with Valve)

Wether or not that's too much is not yours to decide i'm afraid. If the publishers and Steam are happy with that, they can do it.

What's even more scary: all this rubbish you're saying isn't even part of your TOS (AGB). I couldn't even find any TOS on english either although your shop clearly has an english frontend for international customers AND you ship to them.
Not even Amazon.de has English TOS, crazy isn't it ...:rolleyes:

It's also not part of the AGB that people can expect to download as often as they want (atleast i can't find it). So i don't think translating it to English would've helped.

Or do you expect them to crawl through your german (and useless) AGB with a translator?
Well, they could ask if they are unsure? Send an email etc.

Those who give the old " if you lost your CD back in the day could you just go in and get a new one for free"
OK, i guess that would be me, so here it comes:

... this is the day of digital downloads and all the benefits that it brings, including but definitely not limited to being able to download another copy if something happened to your copy...
I don't think the benefit of "digital downloads" (or digital distribution) has been written in stone anywhere. Not even on Wikipedia.

For me, it is that you can download it immediately after payment (usually) and don't have to wait for the DVD to arrive and you don't have to put a DVD in every time you want to play and that it's often cheaper that way. Overall, i find it more comfortable to use.

Not that you just pay once and don't have to pay attention to anything, because the developer/publisher/supplier will do that for you for free for a lifetime.

[CaptainDoggles]

I wonder what people did back in the day when there were no digital download services like Steam around and people bought a CD/DVD and lost it then.

Or even with those games on floppy discs, long before the Internet was used to complain about everything.:-P

I'll probably lose my car now and sue the manufacturer.

Data is not the same thing as a car. This isn't the 70's; times change as technology arises. One of the websites I manage costs a measly 8 dollars per month for unlimited space and traffic. Is desastersoft seriously suggesting that they can't afford to allow him to download another copy?

[Dano]

Not even Amazon.de has English TOS, crazy isn't it ...:rolleyes:

www.amazon.co.uk

[Matt255]

What's the difference then?
OK, a car is different perhaps. It got wheels etc. Point taken.


Say you buy a CD of your favorite band now. It's data on a disc. Someone put money into it to put it on the disc and give it to you and you pay them for that. Contract fulfilled, job done. You're responsible now for what you do with it.

Same deal with digital distribution. They put money into it by supplying a download link and traffic, you download it, the data lands on your disc (which is your HDD, SDD or whatever). You're responsible for what you do with it.

Same deal. Everything else is bonus. If the supplier can afford lifetime redownload, that's cool (and you are paying for that, even if you don't need it or notice it). I really don't see why the customer now thinks he's the right to demand it, just because it's now digital only. That would only make it unfair for the person who bought the DVD and there would be no reason why that person shouldn't get a second DVD aswell.

@Dano: Did not know that, thanks... :D. There's stuff you can only buy on the German Amazon though, that's the point i was trying to make (or more correctly, that even big German shops don't always have English TOS).


But OK, let's leave it to rest. Looks like this matter has been solved anyhow, so everyone is happy and people can find something else to complain about.

[svend]

But you could try to do the same :grin:

Hehe lol I did. Mailed them the download mail with ordernumber and my paypal transaction ;)

[JG52Krupi]

Lets compare, me and my brother brought one of these...

http://www.bigwing.biz/shop.html

for my dad's brithday a few months ago and he only recently decided to start work on it he found the instruction manual had gone missing and the instruction disk was scratched. We contacted them about a replacement and they could have easily said no but they sent both a new instruction manual and a cd all for free, now that is what I call an honest company.

The missing manual and scratched cd was not there fault and they are not that big a company yet they still sent my old man these items free of charge.

Oh and Dano

www.amazon.co.uk

Thanks that made me chuckle! :D

[CaptainDoggles]

Say you buy a CD of your favorite band now. It's data on a disc. Someone put money into it to put it on the disc and give it to you and you pay them for that. Contract fulfilled, job done. You're responsible now for what you do with it.A CD is different. Each one costs money. By contrast, once you have one digital copy you can distribute it to your customers for free. Bandwidth is cheap, and if you're paying for a bandwidth limited webhost, you should switch. I already mentioned that unlimited plans are dirt cheap.

So where's the cost again?

Same deal with digital distribution. They put money into it by supplying a download link and traffic, you download it, the data lands on your disc (which is your HDD, SDD or whatever). You're responsible for what you do with it.With a disc, you can install it from the disc unlimited times. That's the whole point of having a disc. When they don't give you a disc, you need a new way to re-install.

[Madfish]

What's the difference then?
But OK, let's leave it to rest. Looks like this matter has been solved anyhow, so everyone is happy and people can find something else to complain about.
Do you work for desastersoft or why are you putting up such weird thoughts and explanations? What they're doing is borderline legal. In fact I'm almost certain you could sue them for it. That's what I was hinting at with my last post (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=455247&postcount=66). Maybe you should actually try to read it. If you don't understand it just ask.

The required steps they have to take are:

Adjust their TOS.
Display a note on their webshop about their download "policy".
Actually CREATE a policy AND make you accept it during the shopping and checkout process.
Optional: Treat customers with respect.
Optional: Don't find excuses for non-existing or unprofessional service.


The way I see it this company is shady at best if they respond in such manner and I wonder if they even intend to fix the process and eventually their business attitude.

[drifter11]

Do you work for desastersoft or why are you putting up such weird thoughts and explanations? What they're doing is borderline legal. In fact I'm almost certain you could sue them for it. That's what I was hinting at with my last post (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=455247&postcount=66). Maybe you should actually try to read it. If you don't understand it just ask.

The required steps they have to take are:

Adjust their TOS.
Display a note on their webshop about their download "policy".
Actually CREATE a policy AND make you accept it during the shopping and checkout process.
Optional: Treat customers with respect.
Optional: Don't find excuses for non-existing or unprofessional service.


The way I see it this company is shady at best if they respond in such manner and I wonder if they even intend to fix the process and eventually their business attitude.

I got word from them that I must wait till Monday when the tech is in because I don't have the original E-mail that was sent when I bought it the 1st time, wait and see I guess.

[SlipBall]

I got word from them that I must wait till Monday when the tech is in because I don't have the original E-mail that was sent when I bought it the 1st time, wait and see I guess.


Funny!...the saved folder is there for a reason:confused:

[robtek]

What really is disturbing is the quick bashing of a small, i mean really small, company, which doesn't has a big staff for customer care or a legal department,
and is working in a niche where a few pirated copys really have consequences.
Customer care, in the form as it is idealized here, is possible for multimillion Dollar Companies, not the few man shop that we have here were the boss really has to work.
Some people here are really letting their imagination run free.
Bottom line is that when a PROOF of buy is presented the download is possible, again.
Usually it is always a communication error, technical or attitude related.

[Flanker35M]

S!

This what Robtek said. Maybe a small reality check is in place. Godfather of my son is German and had a business. He said people were acting like jerks and threatening with law suits and whatever because 'customer is king'. And in most cases issues were cased by the customer,not the company. Go figure..

[CaptainDoggles]

What really is disturbing is the quick bashing of a small, i mean really small, company, which doesn't has a big staff for customer care or a legal department,
and is working in a niche where a few pirated copys really have consequences.
Customer care, in the form as it is idealized here, is possible for multimillion Dollar Companies, not the few man shop that we have here were the boss really has to work.
Some people here are really letting their imagination run free.
Bottom line is that when a PROOF of buy is presented the download is possible, again.
Usually it is always a communication error, technical or attitude related.

No.

Look at it logically. There is no associated cost with re-distributing a digital download. Anyone who says different is lying. They already pay for their bandwidth; that's a sunk cost.

What other costs are there? 30 seconds of paid time to answer the email?

AFAIK the original poster had proof of purchase. He stated I believe more than once that he had emailed desastersoft with his receipt.

This is just a case of a small company not understanding that the rules of customer service apply to them as well.

[CaptainDoggles]

S!

This what Robtek said. Maybe a small reality check is in place. Godfather of my son is German and had a business. He said people were acting like jerks and threatening with law suits and whatever because 'customer is king'. And in most cases issues were cased by the customer,not the company. Go figure..

They say the customer is right for a reason. If you piss off your customers, they'll just go somewhere else or not buy from you.

[zapatista]

What really is disturbing is the quick bashing of a small, i mean really small, company, which doesn't has a big staff for customer care or a legal department,
and is working in a niche where a few pirated copys really have consequences.
Customer care, in the form as it is idealized here, is possible for multimillion Dollar Companies, not the few man shop that we have here were the boss really has to work.
Some people here are really letting their imagination run free.
Bottom line is that when a PROOF of buy is presented the download is possible, again.
Usually it is always a communication error, technical or attitude related.

robtek,

what you say is only partially relevant here and gives the wrong context imho for this current situation. in fact the content of your post here would make more sense if you read it in reverse order (from end to beginning) :)

eg, the original poster already previously had sent a "normal" email with his proof of purchase (in fact several i think) to explain his problem and ask for a re-download (which is a common request with most e-game retailers). when after at least 2 of these requests they still refused to help, he sent them another email with some one liners expressing his frustration

its only after that that the OP made the post here

magically the representative from Disastersoft who quickly appeared on the forum then only quoted the later frustrated email, but very conveniently overlooked the earlier normal customer request emails (that had included proof of purchase). i'd call that deliberate misrepresentation to say the least. that same person then also tried to give some lame excuse about not having the bw to provided further downloads and indicated they wouldnt help customers requesting assistance with that type of problem.

that's when the brouhaha here started :)

you should only look at being lenient if the company is small and in a niche product section that we all support here, but if it seems to have the right intention and makes an effort to support their customers. but the bottom line is still the same, having somebody with some sense of customer care represent disastersoft here and provide a reply would have been a lot smarter, right now they just compounded the problem and several other people with the same issue with them also appeared, so it is not an isolated incident. they also need a clearer and more open policy of how they deal with this type of problem, since it is predictable it will happen again to one of us here in the future

[zapatista]

S!

This what Robtek said. Maybe a small reality check is in place. Godfather of my son is German and had a business. He said people were acting like jerks and threatening with law suits and whatever because 'customer is king'. And in most cases issues were cased by the customer,not the company. Go figure..

compadre, that is anecdotal evidence about an event in a different context

the example earlier in this thread from the wine/spirits merchant customer care approach was much more relevant. eg, be prepared for what type of problems might occur with your products (eg, in this case a re-download request that is legitimate or maybe fraudulent), deal with genuine and normal customers in a civilized and helpful way, and be firm with the pranksters or fake ones.

and in the same way there are occasionally obnoxious customer making irrational or unjustified requests, there are also frustrated genuine customers who know their legal rights and are willing to act on them. between those 2 extremes is where we find ourselves, and in this case disastersoft is the one with egg on their faces.

[svend]

Just an quick update from me :) For you who have read through all these pages will know Im one of the customers, who did not manage to make an backup in time. This morning I got an mail from Thomas, with instructions on how to download the software again and do appreciate the help they provided.

As I have said previously. There are no reason not to order from them (it`s a damn good campaign) and! If you contact them in a good manner and explain to them, the chance for a positive solution are there. So! Thx alot Thomas for your help, appreciate it. To be fair to the community a big thx from me :) It`s no secret that bringing issues like this up on these forums, could and can have an effect on the out come :) So! Thx ;)

[CaptainDoggles]

Just an quick update from me :) For you who have read through all these pages will know Im one of the customers, who did not manage to make an backup in time. This morning I got an mail from Thomas, with instructions on how to download the software again and do appreciate the help they provided.

As I have said previously. There are no reason not to order from them (it`s a damn good campaign) and! If you contact them in a good manner and explain to them, the chance for a positive solution are there. So! Thx alot Thomas for your help, appreciate it. To be fair to the community a big thx from me :) It`s no secret that bringing issues like this up on these forums, could and can have an effect on the out come :) So! Thx ;)

Glad you got your campaign.

It's sad that these people had to be called out in public before they'd understand why customer service is important.

[FS~Phat]

I knew they would come through which is why I left the thread untouched.
Now you know they do value their customers and they will try help where it can be justified in a polite manner, I see no reason to leave this open to further trashing.

The customer issue was dealt with. Thanks guys please keep up the good work. We eagerly await your english translation of the channel campaign! ;)