Fultures!

[senseispcc]

.
I never play online because of bad experience in IL-1946 with vultures tath never left a pilot get of the ground by wayting over the airfield and shooting on the ground every body. I see at my first try it did not change at alll, fantastic and you are critical about some problem in the game in your place I should be ashame of your way of playing...bye have a lot of joy as a lot of vultures.

[CaptainDoggles]

Try taking off at a different base.

If you get so upset about being shot down, maybe computer games aren't for you.

[JG52Krupi]

Try another server, if you were at ATAG they allow Vultures other do not try them.

Everyone at some point gets pissed off with vultures, your not alone ;) but don't let them put you off COD online from what I hear its in a much better state than offline.

[senseispcc]

Try taking off at a different base.

If you get so upset about being shot down, maybe computer games aren't for you.

Not shot down but the fact that some are waiting the spawning so they shoot you on the ground is not normal and never realy happened, a air raid and vultures are not the same, and is only possible because there is no defense over the airfield. When you have air superiority you can have opportunity planes in landing, if there is not to much tripl A over the airfield. With this sort of player you do not have a chance to take of, if you like it, maybe you do it?

[MD_Titus]

feltchers?

as a side note vultching is entirely historical. even on heavily defended airfields it could and often did happen, just a single pass and then go. many accounts of the same as well.

[notafinger!]

Don't spawn at the coastal bases, especially Hawkinge. Problem solved.

[SlipBall]

feltchers?

as a side note vultching is entirely historical. even on heavily defended airfields it could and often did happen, just a single pass and then go. many accounts of the same as well.


War is hell!:)

[Red Dragon-DK]

I think vulturing is a great part of the game, and Im greatfull its alowed on ATAG. On some other servers, it was not allowed so I stoped flying there. To many ruels. like playing in a sandbox for kids only. ;)
It was a part of the war and its a part of the game. I have been shoot at many times on the base and it canot upset me at all.

As other suggest, Move to another base and takeoff from there. Dont give up :D

[Toni74]

.
I never play online because of bad experience in IL-1946 with vultures tath never left a pilot get of the ground by wayting over the airfield and shooting on the ground every body. I see at my first try it did not change at alll, fantastic and you are critical about some problem in the game in your place I should be ashame of your way of playing...bye have a lot of joy as a lot of vultures.

the main reason of a air force isn't to fight other planes in the air but destroy the enemy on ground befor he gets up.

if your prefered base is under fire then choose a different one. that simple.

i'm glad that those vulch whiners from FB/PF/46 times get less nowadays in CloD.

:-)

[pstyle]

.
I never play online because of bad experience in IL-1946 with vultures

meh. I NEVER get attacked on take-off.
I don't operate from Hawkinge.
There is ALWAYS a fight over Hawkinge.

It's probably the easiest problem to avoid.

[senseispcc]

War is hell!:)

It did not often happend over airfields, they where well defended by triple A.

[jf1981]

Do not climb in such case, get as much speed as possible, and survey the guys diving. If one closes from you start a smooth turn and slowly pull to break (hard turn).

If he tries to follow, this simple maneuver will make him loose energy quickly and make him more vulnerable, other aircrafts can them come and help.

If he quits, try to slowly climb while gaining distance from the field.

That's how I usually try to deal with.

[Sternjaeger II]

I think vulturing is a great part of the game, and Im greatfull its alowed on ATAG.

...really? What's so great about it exactly? :confused:

[Toni74]

...really? What's so great about it exactly? :confused:

depends on who you are :) vulcher or beeing vulched :D

just look at all those beautiful new ricochet tracers. they have been made for making vulching a impressive experience.

[SlipBall]

It did not often happend over airfields, they where well defended by triple A.


That is true, but a few people will always try for an easy kill in games...really nothing to be proud of but, it is their way because they lack the skill's.:)

[U505]

That is true, but a few people will always try for an easy kill in games...really nothing to be proud of but, it is their way because they lack the skill's.:)
it depends first who we are in real life :)

[PotNoodles]

Vulchering - LOL... Do I have to get used to the slang aswell as learning to fly this sim? Telling someone to stop Vulchering me is going to be the hardest thing I will face in this sim... Mainly because I will have to keep a straight face while I tell someone to stop Vulchering me. Then I will have to keep my cool and and my temper in check because I cannot resist spawning at the same airbase and been Vulchered.

[robtek]

I love to strafe airfields with the Bf110 after i've dropped my bombload.
Every fighter that gets airborne is my deadly enemy and has the advantage.
Don't let 'em get up and then a swift departure, hoping that there are no other fighters already in the air, looking for easy prey.

[Continu0]

Hey

Maybe you had a bad day? I never experienced it that bad, so I suggest you just try again:)

[AbortedMan]

I've beaten this same issue to death.

ATAG won't change it for reasons "so complicated you cannot possibly understand". Our only hope was Wolf's Channel Command mission and they seemed to have taken it out of the mission rotation...also probably for reasons "so complicated you cannot possibly understand."

[pstyle]

I've beaten this same issue to death.

ATAG won't change it for reasons "so complicated you cannot possibly understand". Our only hope was Wolf's Channel Command mission and they seemed to have taken it out of the mission rotation...also probably for reasons "so complicated you cannot possibly understand."

yeah I've beaten this to death too. And vulching is fine with me.

why not play another server? plenty of people, including me, happily play on ATAG, knowing the rules.

I don't care if I get vulched. I play almost exclusively red, so I hardly spend any time over blue territory anyway. Change airbase away from the combat. It's such a basic solution. you don't need a specially scripted mission. There are plenty of bases to choose from.

[Force10]

Yeah...we all know getting strafed on the ground was a reality in war. You know what else was a reality? Planes having mechanical problems and not starting, pilot being too sick to fly,etc. Why don't they model these things in the game? Because they aren't fun, that's why. Much like getting strafed on a runway while you are warming up your engine.

I guess that's part of the reason I would never fly on ATAG...not a big fan of scoring easy kills on noobs warming up their engines.

[Sternjaeger II]

depends on who you are :) vulcher or beeing vulched :D

just look at all those beautiful new ricochet tracers. they have been made for making vulching a impressive experience.

got em in IL-2 1946 too now, and looking even better if I'm honest ;-)

One thing is a strafing run after a bombing mission or an airport attack, but loitering over enemy airfields is just not realistic and stupid, what's the fun in shooting something down in a vulnerable position? :confused:

[jimbop]

View it as an opportunity:

1. Warm up at Hawkinge, take off, get shot down. Bugger.
2. Take off from an inland base, gain altitude and approach Hawkinge at 10k feet. Dive on the base and engage the vultures with superior energy.

[raaaid]

the correct terms are vulture and vulching :)

when i find a vulture i wait for him to cross my sight while im stopped, once almost shot one

[Force10]

I thought the proper definition for vulching in internet air combat slang was:

You shoot up a guy, his engine is on fire heading down, along comes Johhny A-hole and puts 1 more round in him and says "chalk one up for me" and he gets credit for the kill.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Change airbase away from the combat. It's such a basic solution. you don't need a specially scripted mission. There are plenty of bases to choose from.

+1

Sadly I think some people will never understand this at all. Is it really that hard to spawn away from the front lines if you don't want the possibility of being attacked on the ground? I wouldn't think so. But obviously others are kinda slow in this department.

[ATAG_Doc]

Lol take off faster.

If you ain't complaining about it then we ain't doing our jobs.

[ATAG_Snapper]

View it as an opportunity:

1. Warm up at Hawkinge, take off, get shot down. Bugger.
2. Take off from an inland base, gain altitude and approach Hawkinge at 10k feet. Dive on the base and engage the vulchers with superior energy.

Exactly.

[Force10]

+1

Sadly I think some people will never understand this at all. Is it really that hard to spawn away from the front lines if you don't want the possibility of being attacked on the ground? I wouldn't think so. But obviously others are kinda slow in this department.

LOL. On the one hand, folks are always talking about trying to get more people involved in simming, on the other hand, they happily strafe noobs on the runway and when they come here complaining about it, we call them "slow" and suggest that combat sims maybe aren't for them.

senseispcc: The best course of action is to just stay off of ATAG's servers. Things like "honor" and "chivalry" are terms that are lost on these guys and boosting their kills on a leaderboard is all they care about. And most surely don't donate any money to their server.

[ATAG_Doc]

View it as an opportunity:

1. Warm up at Hawkinge, take off, get shot down. Bugger.
2. Take off from an inland base, gain altitude and approach Hawkinge at 10k feet. Dive on the base and engage the vulchers with superior energy.

What is the RAF secondary base? There is a runway at a base way north that's tricky to use. I wonder if that is the same one. Maidstone? It's like driving over the lunar surface. bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy

[ATAG_Snapper]

I guess that's part of the reason I would never fly on ATAG...not a big fan of scoring easy kills on noobs warming up their engines.

Well.....you might try having a go at the Spits chewing up your bombers at 14 angels. THOSE Spitfires actually shoot back! LOL

[ATAG_Doc]

LOL. On the one hand, folks are always talking about trying to get more people involved in simming, on the other hand, they happily strafe noobs on the runway and when they come here complaining about it, we call them "slow" and suggest that combat sims maybe aren't for them.

senseispcc: The best course of action is to just stay off of ATAG's servers. Things like "honor" and "chivalry" are terms that are lost on these guys and boosting their kills on a leaderboard is all they care about. And most surely don't donate any money to their server.

I don't know what it is going to take. It seems no matter how many post come up about it people always insist on spawning close to the channel.

No matter where you spawn it just takes that one person that gets zapped and they're in here with big crocodile tears crying about it.

[ATAG_Snapper]

What is the RAF secondary base? There is a runway at a base way north that's tricky to use. I wonder if that is the same one. Maidstone? It's like driving over the lunar surface. bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy

There's also Rochester nearby that's much better, plus Canterbury that the LW can't find because we camouflaged the cathedral. :)

[Force10]

I don't know what it is going to take. It seems no matter how many post come up about it people always insist on spawning close to the channel.

No matter where you spawn it just takes that one person that gets zapped and they're in here with big crocodile tears crying about it.

Newsflash for Doc...the majority of folks that purchased this game don't even know this forum is here and don't come here. Just another reason to show why a proper co-op GUI is needed...to get more servers out there to avoid this ATAG airquake "spawn camping" bs.

[ATAG_Snapper]

I thought the proper definition for vulching in internet air combat slang was:

You shoot up a guy, his engine is on fire heading down, along comes Johhny A-hole and puts 1 more round in him and says "chalk one up for me" and he gets credit for the kill.

Doesn't apply in Cliffs of Dover. It can't happen that way.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Newsflash for Doc...the majority of folks that purchased this game don't even know this forum is here and don't come here. Just another reason to show why a proper co-op GUI is needed...to get more servers out there to avoid this ATAG airquake "spawn camping" bs.

New players don't have to come here. They see the ATAG server as one of the busier servers and decide to log on. Via the chat window they initiate contact with other players very quickly. The newbies are always advised to check the briefing page in front of them on their screen to

1) come to the ATAG Forum - which is mutiplayer centric - and,
2) get Teamspeak 3 with instructions on getting on ATAG's TS server

From there they can quickly find out how to best enjoy flying on the ATAG Server. If they want an "Airquake" experience - great! We'll point 'em towards the nearest furball. If they want a more complex squadron experience - fighters and/or bombers - that's fine, too. Plenty of squadrons willing to recruit and guide the new player along. Vulching a problem? We'll teach the new player how tactics and teamwork turns vulchers into targets.

We have many new players coming in every week, most by simply logging into the ATAG Server from the games's multiplayer GUI.

[ATAG_Bliss]

LOL. On the one hand, folks are always talking about trying to get more people involved in simming, on the other hand, they happily strafe noobs on the runway and when they come here complaining about it, we call them "slow" and suggest that combat sims maybe aren't for them.

senseispcc: The best course of action is to just stay off of ATAG's servers. Things like "honor" and "chivalry" are terms that are lost on these guys and boosting their kills on a leaderboard is all they care about. And most surely don't donate any money to their server.

I'm not trying to get more people involved with simming. People either like it or they don't. What I don't understand is the very basics of people complaining about their own bad decisions. I guess people always like to pass the buck.

And what are you talking about honor and chivalry? This is a video game. If people are going to whine and complain about being shot down while playing a video game, I'm going to take a wild guess and say they need to step away from their PCs for a bit. If you are an enemy, in the air or on the ground, you are a valid target. It's pretty simple. One would think it's even more simple to look at the map, location of objectives, read the briefing etc., and realize if you spawn near the front, there's probably a good chance of enemies around. I wouldn't think it would take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. And I don't know any person that's a stats whore. Heck the stats are reset all the time anyways. I'm sure there are other squads out there that probably wear the uniform while they play and deal with ranks and weird shit like that, but we're just about having fun. We realize it's a video game.

I remember one guy on coms, can't remember what his name was, but he was crying about getting vulched while taking off in a blenny. I asked what base he was taking off from and sure enough it was the blenny base right near the front lines. Then I asked him why he wouldn't take off from another airfield inland, his response was he didn't want to have to fly that far. Now mind you, this guy pulled me away from flying to bitch about this, something as simple as spawning from a different airfield which he wouldn't do. Then he has the gall to tell me it's the mission's fault. That's when you throw up your hands and just laugh. People want to be able to get in the action fast, but if they happen to get shot down because they made the decision to spawn where the action is, all they want to do is complain.

Hopefully those types will finally just move on to some other game or some other server that suits their needs / forces them to take the critical thinking part of where to spawn etc. I know plenty of people that enjoy the game, enjoy spawning in the front lines, and enjoy the fact they may get shot at on the ground because of it. What I enjoy most is I have the right to choose to spawn inland where I know I'll never get attacked on the ground or have the choice to spawn near the front lines where there's a good chance I will get attacked. Either way, I'll enjoy it. Video games are recreation to me.

I think senseispcc's problem/anger comes from the fact that he plays SP. In SP you basically know what's going to happen, you have control over when the mission starts, how you can fly, where you can meet the objectives/flight groups etc. When you join a dynamic environment online, all that control is lost. Anything and everything can happen at any time. Your tactics revolve around the current situation which can only really be known by those flying together and talking. So you spawn right in the nearest airfield and without a doubt someone saw you and strafed the crap out of you for it. I think stuff like this is why SP folks won't play MP and MP folks don't play SP. I like the dynamic ever changing environment, not knowing what's going to happen, where the enemies are, etc., is the best part. While in SP it's kinda the opposite.

[AbortedMan]

Everyone that is ok with vulching seems to forget that vulching sucks a large percentage of players into that area of the mission, often leaving people that are smart enough to not bother with the "airquake condition" completely alone to shoot at AI bombers...and that's pretty boring.

When vulching happens, the Blue's are hanging around Hawkinge looking for easy kills, the Red's know this and either attempt a take-off from Hawkinge to get into a quick fight, or get a tad bit smarter and spawn at a further airbase only to head to Hawkinge because they know that's where the Blue's are. This further exacerbates the problem. This giant wonderfully complex and detailed mission on this GIANT wonderfully complex map suddenly gets pigeonholed into a square mile of frustration.

Yes it's a stupid result of people being stupid OR making bad choices, but it's what is going to happen over and over...because people are stupid and/OR make bad choices. It's not that I'm trying to criticize or degrade "people" but I simply cannot use any other word to describe them.

The "airquake condition" can be dealt with and fixed, or it can be ignored advertised as a beneficial part of a server's assets.

ATAG's choice. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, IMO. They hold the balance of this game's online community in their hands, and I feel the stage they're setting for themselves is getting volatile very quickly.

BTW, With the current base configuration over in England, simply spawning at another base is not a solution. Red have three general areas to spawn from, Hawkinge/Lympne and Ramsgate/Manston...both pairs close enough to each other to be considered *one* strafable area to a vulture...and Eastchurch which leaves Red little choice but to navigate over the hotspots I just mentioned to get into theater. Blue, on the other hand, has so many bases strewn across the coast and inland that I cannot even read most of them on the map unless I zoom in to the maximum...that alone negates many vulture attempts, but not before Red is shot down by the extremely dense 5x5 *GRIDS* (wtf!??!?!) of AAA.

A friend and I once logged onto the server to fly some sorties...there were 4 Reds including us and about 7 blue. We spawn at Hawkinge since we thought it would be quiet due to low population...nope. Four 109's in the air and on us before we hit 200mph. Ok fair game, our fault..."it's Hawkinge." I thought. So we move to Manston, start warming up, roll down the runway, and wheels up...BAM! Black screen. Killed by a 109 pilot...one of the same four from Hawkinge. See the trend here? What's the solution for that?

EDIT: Wait, I got it...I know the solution. I'm just gonna start flyin blue. I paid for the game just like everyone else, I have every right to play it just as everyone else does and won't be hamstrung by bad decisions.

[ATAG_Doc]

Newsflash for Doc...the majority of folks that purchased this game don't even know this forum is here and don't come here. Just another reason to show why a proper co-op GUI is needed...to get more servers out there to avoid this ATAG airquake "spawn camping" bs.

You don't need to convince me about coop. I coop eveytime I play.

[ATAG_Doc]

Everyone that is ok with vulching seems to forget that vulching sucks a large percentage of players into that area of the mission, often leaving people that are smart enough to not bother with the "airquake condition" completely alone to shoot at AI bombers...and that's pretty boring.

When vulching happens, the Blue's are hanging around Hawkinge looking for easy kills, the Red's know this and either attempt a take-off from Hawkinge to get into a quick fight, or get a tad bit smarter and spawn at a further airbase only to head to Hawkinge because they know that's where the Blue's are. This further exacerbates the problem. This giant wonderfully complex and detailed mission on this GIANT wonderfully complex map suddenly gets pigeonholed into a square mile of frustration.

Yes it's a stupid result of people being stupid OR making bad choices, but it's what is going to happen over and over...because people are stupid and/OR make bad choices. It's not that I'm trying to criticize or degrade "people" but I simply cannot use any other word to describe them.

The "airquake condition" can be dealt with and fixed, or it can be ignored advertised as a beneficial part of a server's assets.

ATAG's choice. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, IMO. They hold the balance of this game's online community in their hands, and I feel the stage they're setting for themselves is getting volatile very quickly.

Youre in love with yourself.

[Force10]

And what are you talking about honor and chivalry? This is a video game. If people are going to whine and complain about being shot down while playing a video game, I'm going to take a wild guess and say they need to step away from their PCs for a bit.

Question: How can you complain about being shot down when you never get off the ground?

where you can meet the objectives/flight groups etc. When you join a dynamic environment online, all that control is lost.

This sums up perfectly the problem with ATAG

This giant wonderfully complex and detailed mission on this GIANT wonderfully complex map suddenly gets pigeonholed into a square mile of frustration.


What the hell is dynamic about the same vulchers looking for easy pickens around Hawkinge? You need to look up "dynamic" in the dictionary Bliss.

Actually, if you read Aborted mans whole post it sums up why ATAG is more or less rediculous. We all know you are dead set against co-ops Bliss, I'm guessing you are a former quake player and like the predictability of what happens on the ATAG server?

[Toni74]

(...)When vulching happens, the Blue's are hanging around Hawkinge looking for easy kills, the Red's know this and either attempt a take-off from Hawkinge to get into a quick fight, or get a tad bit smarter and spawn at a further airbase only to head to Hawkinge because they know that's where the Blue's are.(...)

lol. of course only the blue ones do vulching. :rolleyes:

[Toni74]

(...)loitering over enemy airfields is just not realistic and stupid, what's the fun in shooting something down in a vulnerable position? :confused:

and of course as a spitfire pilot you always fight against even or stronger enemies and never against big slow planes hanging in the air like lame ducks.

come on. :rolleyes:

in war it's the nature of man to wipe out the weaker ones first. what's wrong with it?

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by AbortedMan (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=452239)<br />
(...)When vulching happens, the Blue's are hanging around Hawkinge looking for easy kills, the Red's know this and either attempt a take-off from Hawkinge to get into a quick fight, or get a tad bit smarter and spawn at a further airbase only to head to Hawkinge because they know that's where the Blue's are.(...)<br />
<br />
lol. of course only the blue ones do vulching. :rolleyes:


Yeah. And?

I find it offensive that you pigeonhole all blue players with this label.

I think this thread needs more moderation to curtail all the slanderous insults and abuse we blue guys have to endure in these forums.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Question: How can you complain about being shot down when you never get off the ground?



This sums up perfectly the problem with ATAG



What the hell is dynamic about the same vulchers looking for easy pickens around Hawkinge? You need to look up "dynamic" in the dictionary Bliss.

Actually, if you read Aborted mans whole post it sums up why ATAG is more or less rediculous. We all know you are dead set against co-ops Bliss, I'm guessing you are a former quake player and like the predictability of what happens on the ATAG server?

You've nailed it perfectly.

If I only had one wish, it would be those that seem to know how to do it "right" and create a non-r"e"diculous server would stop being so shy and come out and do it. Watching the people that truly know how to do this sort of thing, just sitting in the back ground with such a vast knowledge of mission building and how to do it right, without stepping up to the plate is frustrating. I hope for the day when the loudest voices - the obvious one's that really know how to build those perfect missions come out and show us people with 1000's of hours building missions how it's done right.

Please please show us the way. Obviously the ATAG server is complete garbage and so are the missions.

Sincerely,

A dedicated airquake, non-historic, garbage server owner that doesn't know anything.

Thanks.

[ATAG_Doc]

Bliss the server is so ghetto

[Jaws2002]

What's with al this crybabies taking shots at ATAG like tey owe you something?
Aren't you fools forgeting that, without the guys from ATAG, tying so hard to keep a solid server runing great, while the game was close to garbage, this game would have been dead vor a long time. At least the online part of it.
ATAG server, and the people working hard to keep it runing , with the endless stream of bugs, from patch to patch, is in large part the reason you have an online community still active.

Vulching is part of the air wars, and it is part of the game. Get used to it. Front line bases were always visited by enemy planes. The Russian airforce was basically raped on the ground at the begining of the war. The il2's were constantly attacking enemy airfields troughout the war.
After ten minutes of warm up and 20 minutes flight in a bomber, when I get close to the enemy targets, if I have escorting fighters, I'll always ask them to try to suppress the airfield close to the target until we get the bombs out. That means shooting at anyone that even thinks about taking a plane up to interfere with our mission.
On ATAG there are plenty of bases away from the action, to take off without any danger.
I thought this was common sense by now, after so many years of online playing. :rolleyes:
No matter what flying online game you play, it's always been this way.

[Sternjaeger II]

I suppose that if the enjoyment of your simming experience reduces itself to vulching, then you really got into the wrong genre.

Sure, it's a laugh every now and then, but if it becomes a habit, then it's only a counterproductive attitude that will push people away. Where's the fun in that anyway? There's no fair measure in a dogfight or by using a better tactic, it's just coming down on someone who's in the most vulnerable position and maybe struggled all the way back after a mission and is looking forward to a good landing..

I refrain from joining servers that allow vulching, simply because you know it's gonna end up in a puerile airquake..

[julien673]

Only add some flak ....

Damaged enemy aircraft over the air base is always priceless... B)

[Wolf_Rider]

+1

Sadly I think some people will never understand this at all. Is it really that hard to spawn away from the front lines if you don't want the possibility of being attacked on the ground? I wouldn't think so. But obviously others are kinda slow in this department.

yeah well, an easy kill is an easy kill, eh? no skill required

[Fjordmonkey]

I think the whole debate is hilarious, to be honest.

As many here have said: If you're being vulched, then gtfo that airfield and accept that you'll have to do a bit of flying in order to get to the fight. Simple as that. Or, if you don't like being vulched, don't play on ATAG where that sort of thing is allowed. Bitching about how ATAG sucks because they don't have anti-vulching rules is, quite frankly, silly and borderline idiotic. If you don't like how something is run, don't go there. Hell, set up your own server with your own rules instead. Of course, that takes more work than most people are willing to put in, but hey, it's a solution.

While I don't usually play online, I will, if the opportunity arises, use every possible means I have to kill you. My basic instinct is that if I can kill you on the ground, you're one less tosspot that will get airborne to challenge my rather horrendous situational awareness and worse gunnery-skills. If I'm being vulched, I'll just spawn at a different airbase and then use the altitude/speed to enter/exit the fight Boom'n'Zoom-style. I will use every single advantage I have and can use in order to shoot you down, just as I expect you to use every single advantage and skill YOU have in order to swat my silly butt out of the sky. To do anything less would be stupid.

In a combatflightsim, I fight to win. That's the plain, naked truth of it. I fight to help my TEAM win. And I will use every dirty tactic that I within reason and within the rules can apply to do it. Hell, I will, if I'm completely out of ammo, low on fuel/heavily damaged and too far away from an airfield, even ram you if need be. I might die, but I'm taking you with me.

Avoiding vulchers is hilariously easy, as all you have to do is spawn at an airbase further away from the frontlines. Yes, you might have to spend 5 minutes flying to the combatzone, but you'll be in a superior tactical situation at that point. Few, if any, people realize this.

[David198502]

Not shot down but the fact that some are waiting the spawning so they shoot you on the ground is not normal and never realy happened, a air raid and vultures are not the same, and is only possible because there is no defense over the airfield. When you have air superiority you can have opportunity planes in landing, if there is not to much tripl A over the airfield. With this sort of player you do not have a chance to take of, if you like it, maybe you do it?

you will always have a chance against vulchers!
its the most statisfying kill, if you shoot down a player, who feels safe and convinced to kill you in a second when he dives on you...fight as hard as possible, fly clean and turn the tables!
its possible and its fun believe me!
everybody is welcome to try to vulch me!

[Force10]

You've nailed it perfectly.

If I only had one wish, it would be those that seem to know how to do it "right" and create a non-r"e"diculous server would stop being so shy and come out and do it. Watching the people that truly know how to do this sort of thing, just sitting in the back ground with such a vast knowledge of mission building and how to do it right, without stepping up to the plate is frustrating. I hope for the day when the loudest voices - the obvious one's that really know how to build those perfect missions come out and show us people with 1000's of hours building missions how it's done right.

Please please show us the way. Obviously the ATAG server is complete garbage and so are the missions.

Sincerely,

A dedicated airquake, non-historic, garbage server owner that doesn't know anything.

Thanks.

The only reason I'm being critical Bliss is because you were so vocal against a more intuitive co-op gui. You stated you "hate" co-op style of play, and therefore would like to "pigeon-hole" everyone to your style of play. So it's pretty clear you will never have that sort of thing on your server and that's fine since it's yours. But trying to stifle a legitiment style of play and a requested feature because you hate co-op, isn't helping the sim expand to online squads that have been waiting for this.

[zapatista]

Not shot down but the fact that some are waiting the spawning so they shoot you on the ground is not normal and never realy happened, a air raid and vultures are not the same, and is only possible because there is no defense over the airfield. When you have air superiority you can have opportunity planes in landing, if there is not to much tripl A over the airfield. With this sort of player you do not have a chance to take of, if you like it, maybe you do it?

i think you have a good point (btw maybe edit your tittle, its "vultures" not fultures ;) )

in a real life setting, other then an airbase just having been severely bombed, you would have AA flak going of and sirens blowing to warn you of nearby or incoming enemy planes

bit odd ATAG servers dont use AA flak guns and sirens at their airfields (was available on il2-1946 servers), is there a technical reason for this ? seems a bit odd of an omission and so is not even be willing to accept comments over it. ignoring criticism of this omission is a good example of the "fake real" point whores who ignorantly think it represents a real life situation. sadly this online behavior is only encouraged by the mutual gratification behavior of their air quake peers, so unlikely to change anytime soon.

[AbortedMan]

The argument isn't about "I'm being vulched, this sucks!"

Vulching negates an entire mission by attracting lesser attentive players to one area. One single small area...which in turn ruins combat for the strategy-minded players because a server with 40+, hell, even 10+, should be chock-full of fighter formations roaming about the map and completing objectives (that you as a mission builder worked so hard on) is now a desolate and barren wasteland of blue.

You naysayers can't deny the negative effect on gameplay a majority of a team hovering around a single base has, whether it's a "valid" style of gameplay or not, it's detrimental to the majority. Spawning at another base to get away from the threat while taking off doesn't fix anything, because EVERYONE needs to do it, but that will never happen...stop dreaming that it will. Yes, you and I see the solution, but the major public does not, and never will. Besides, they'll spawn at the other base and head straight to the vulched base. Happens every time.

[zapatista]

as a side note vultching is entirely historical. even on heavily defended airfields it could and often did happen, just a single pass and then go. many accounts of the same as well.

sure, but the AA folks wouldnt be having a nap, or have the rest of the base crew sitting in their sun-chairs smoking their pipe saying "hey what old chap, bad luck there was a fake-real jerry camper around to ruin your day, lets have another crumpet"

its all about context. lone enemy fighters attacking an airbase on their own (unusual in itself because of the risk) and then not having some warning/alert from the airbase in question, MOST unusual. right now on ATAG you can have undefended forward airbases with a constant cluster of enemy planes camping right over them, and no warnings by ATC or AA, and no nearby airbases dispatching fighters to dislodge the campers. so no, its not realistically representing a normal ww2 airfield scenario

I think vulturing is a great part of the game, and Im greatfull its alowed on ATAG.

nothing wrong with "being allowed" to vulch, setting artificial rules to not allow it doesnt solve anything

the question is, is having a constant swarm of vultures camping over non-defended airbase realistically representing a typical ww2 scenario, obviously not

I thought the proper definition for vulching in internet air combat slang was:

You shoot up a guy, his engine is on fire heading down, along comes Johhny A-hole and puts 1 more round in him and says "chalk one up for me" and he gets credit for the kill.

no, thats "kill stealing" :P

if you'd want a zoological label or new nomenclature for that situation, then we need something new, eg an animal that is a cowardly scavenger (strictly speaking, the hyena and jackal dont fit that description because they do kill most of their own prey in the wild)

LOL. On the one hand, folks are always talking about trying to get more people involved in simming, on the other hand, they happily strafe noobs on the runway and when they come here complaining about it, we call them "slow" and suggest that combat sims maybe aren't for them.

hear, hear !!

them is wise words

senseispcc: The best course of action is to just stay off of ATAG's servers.............. boosting their kills on a leaderboard is all they care about.

that indeed could be the main problem

if their server is setup to deliberately represent a non-real scenario (not proving AA at airbases, no siren warnings, and no nearby airfields dispatching fighters [human or AI] to dislodge fake-real campers), then rewarding that kind of behavior with a point system is a major part of the problem.

[Untamo]

S!

+1 to what Fjordmonkey said.

Taking off or landing, they're still the enemy and valid targets. Vulcher guilty as charged. And I welcome everyone to vulch me in return :)

War is hell etc. Just pick the not-so-close-to-the-fight -field and you're safe from vulching. Or if you must take off from the front field, fly low and fast away from the direction of fighting before starting to climb.

Mission editors CAN make vulching much harder if they choose so, placing heavy AAA around the airfields.

[AbortedMan]

Mission editors CAN make vulching much harder if they choose so, placing heavy AAA around the airfields.

According to Bliss it's impossible.

[ATAG_Keller]

First off, ATAG has lots of Flak guarding both RAF and Luftwaffe airfields. I've been hit by Flak so many times over England at 3500m that I try to avoid the area completely.

Secondly, in the last 3 months I can count the number of times I have been shot before takeoff on one finger. It's not that people aren't doing it, it's because I'm on Teamspeak for a few minutes before I even enter the game and have an understanding of what's going on before I even create a plane.

As to the ridiculous notion that Blue has better airfield placement and therefore is less susceptible to being pinned down by people shooting planes on the ground, maybe you should go back to 1940 and tell the RAF to move those damn airfields further away from each other.

If you think being shot full of holes 10 seconds after creating a plane is annoying, try taking off 70km from the French coast, forming up a group of three bombers, and being shot down an hour into your flight 3 minutes before you reach target. You can create another new plane if yours gets shot up before you take off and what have you lost, 20 seconds?

Does getting shot down when I’m that far into a bomber mission make me angry? Hell ya it does, but what am I going to do? Should I blame the spitfire pilot for being smart enough to find us, and for doing exactly what I would have done if I’d come across 3 Blennys while flying a 109?

AbortedMan, you mention the night when I was involved in bouncing you when you left Hawkinge and then meeting you again when you took off from Manston. I apologize for this, next time I will try not to out-smart you when you are on the server.

[zapatista]

According to Bliss it's impossible.

i seriously doubt that

adding heavy AA and sirens at airfields might eat into the fpsec and result in less players being able to use the server maybe. so you'd have a choice of a more realistic scenario with less players or more people on a relatively bad server that encourages non-real behavior (and even rewards it)

[Force10]

Does getting shot down when I’m that far into a bomber mission make me angry? Hell ya it does, but what am I going to do?
.

Yeah right...that's the same. At least you got in the air and were flying. Not just sitting on the ground warming up the engines. Did you read the thread?

[skarden]

Ah a thread on the validity of vulching as an online tactic, it looks like COD really is coming into its own, I haven't seen one of these since the UBI forums, ah good times ahead :)

On topic I've ALWAYS supported the right to vulch if one wants, as has been stated over and over and over, if your being vulched, spawn at another airbase get alt. boom and zoom the crap outa the vulchers at the original airbase, or if the mood strike go to THEIR airfield and give em the good news back, or even just for something a bit crazy go and do the objectives and bomb the crap outa their targets. Heaps of options really.

All the people here who think vulching is the worst thing in online gaming still haven't said WHY they can't just spawn at another base, I'm honestly curious why its so hard for you to do.

[addman]

Ah a thread on the validity of vulching as an online tactic, it looks like COD really is coming into its own, I haven't seen one of these since the UBI forums, ah good times ahead :)

On topic I've ALWAYS supported the right to vulch if one wants, as has been stated over and over and over, if your being vulched, spawn at another airbase get alt. boom and zoom the crap outa the vulchers at the original airbase, or if the mood strike go to THEIR airfield and give em the good news back, or even just for something a bit crazy go and do the objectives and bomb the crap outa their targets. Heaps of options really.

All the people here who think vulching is the worst thing in online gaming still haven't said WHY they can't just spawn at another base, I'm honestly curious why its so hard for you to do.

LOL! was thinking the same. The developers must be doing something right when we get a good old fashion 20+ thread on vulching. Seems as if people are playing the game again. :)

[Skoshi Tiger]

Vultures can only vulch if an airfield is unprotected.

If people are unwilling to fly patrols over their own airfieds or at least divert to the airfield when a call goes out on teamspeak or chat then there is the whole team to blame.

Remember that a single strafing run over an airfield is not vulching. To really vulch your need air superiority over the field.

I supose the Devs are right in wanting to let us man AA guns. Hey couldn't we have aFPS system where we can pretend to be in the Pearl Harbour film and climb up into the control tower with Bren Guns!

Cool!

[GraveyardJimmy]

The AA at manston is pretty heavy as it also comes across from ramsgate. Looking for the German targets in that area in a lone Stuka was pretty scary, After a dive all the AA converged and took me down. About 8 different bofors had scored hits. (on ATAG)

[Toni74]

LOL! was thinking the same. The developers must be doing something right when we get a good old fashion 20+ thread on vulching. Seems as if people are playing the game again. :)

here we go again. finally the really important things are beeing discussed :D

[Krt_Bong]

Vulching should only be allowed if there is FLAK at the bases, then it's realism, without it's the fault of the mission builder for being lazy, every base should have a ring of FLAK emplacements around it, and a few scattered along the coastline for good measure. This makes it a gamble to attempt an airfield attack.

[kevchenco]

Getting vulched is just like any other mistake you can make as a sim pilot.
there will always be vulchers and its your job as a good sim pilot to know where the enemies are likely to be and when you are putting yourself in danger. This is called situational awareness.

Atag is clear on its rules thats that. If you dont like them set up your own server. It sounds like there could br a bit if a following!!!!

For all you off-line players who dont like vulching do you always wait for the ai planes to take off and gain altitude before attacking. I bet not you're straight in there vulching the poor old ai

[Wolf_Rider]

Getting vulched is just like any other mistake you can make as a sim pilot.

~ This is called situational awareness.




noooo... its called; what happened to (the much cried for) "balance?"

[ATAG_Colander]

A few ideas:

1.- We can bring down the server - No more complaints
2.- We can ban all the complainers - No more complaints
3.- We can password protect the server - No more complaints

Maybe this way, whiners will create their own server and make amazingly great missions that every one (read 100%) of the pilots love. I think that with this incentive, many incredibly good servers will pop up!

Thanks,
ATAG_Colander

[ATAG_Septic]

Vulchering - LOL... Do I have to get used to the slang aswell as learning to fly this sim? Telling someone to stop Vulchering me is going to be the hardest thing I will face in this sim... Mainly because I will have to keep a straight face while I tell someone to stop Vulchering me. Then I will have to keep my cool and and my temper in check because I cannot resist spawning at the same airbase and been Vulchered.

I think it's vulcherized?

[ATAG_Septic]

Everyone that is ok with vulching seems to forget that vulching sucks a large percentage of players into that area of the mission, often leaving people that are smart enough to not bother with the "airquake condition" completely alone to shoot at AI bombers...and that's pretty boring.

When vulching happens, the Blue's are hanging around Hawkinge looking for easy kills, the Red's know this and either attempt a take-off from Hawkinge to get into a quick fight, or get a tad bit smarter and spawn at a further airbase only to head to Hawkinge because they know that's where the Blue's are. This further exacerbates the problem. This giant wonderfully complex and detailed mission on this GIANT wonderfully complex map suddenly gets pigeonholed into a square mile of frustration.

Yes it's a stupid result of people being stupid OR making bad choices, but it's what is going to happen over and over...because people are stupid and/OR make bad choices. It's not that I'm trying to criticize or degrade "people" but I simply cannot use any other word to describe them.

The "airquake condition" can be dealt with and fixed, or it can be ignored advertised as a beneficial part of a server's assets.

ATAG's choice. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, IMO. They hold the balance of this game's online community in their hands, and I feel the stage they're setting for themselves is getting volatile very quickly.

BTW, With the current base configuration over in England, simply spawning at another base is not a solution. Red have three general areas to spawn from, Hawkinge/Lympne and Ramsgate/Manston...both pairs close enough to each other to be considered *one* strafable area to a vulture...and Eastchurch which leaves Red little choice but to navigate over the hotspots I just mentioned to get into theater. Blue, on the other hand, has so many bases strewn across the coast and inland that I cannot even read most of them on the map unless I zoom in to the maximum...that alone negates many vulture attempts, but not before Red is shot down by the extremely dense 5x5 *GRIDS* (wtf!??!?!) of AAA.

A friend and I once logged onto the server to fly some sorties...there were 4 Reds including us and about 7 blue. We spawn at Hawkinge since we thought it would be quiet due to low population...nope. Four 109's in the air and on us before we hit 200mph. Ok fair game, our fault..."it's Hawkinge." I thought. So we move to Manston, start warming up, roll down the runway, and wheels up...BAM! Black screen. Killed by a 109 pilot...one of the same four from Hawkinge. See the trend here? What's the solution for that?

EDIT: Wait, I got it...I know the solution. I'm just gonna start flyin blue. I paid for the game just like everyone else, I have every right to play it just as everyone else does and won't be hamstrung by bad decisions.

I've tried to see your point here but I really can't. You seem emotional and perhaps unhappy? I suggest you find somewhere else to play.

[ATAG_Doc]

Who can take this topic seriously? I mean really. They're not serious. They're here to complain about no coops, the sim, you, me and anything they can get away with and laugh when you respond. They are multiple account holders and they belong to a group and on anothet site or chat laugh about the attention. Seriously now. Its not really anything. Just trolls.

[ATAG_Dutch]

I thought it was 'vulcherizationessness'.

[AbortedMan]

Why do all you ATAG guys take everything as a personal attack when the economics of gameplay is brought up about your current server condition?

[ATAG_Keller]

If you think being shot full of holes 10 seconds after creating a plane is annoying, try taking off 70km from the French coast, forming up a group of three bombers, and being shot down an hour into your flight 3 minutes before you reach target. You can create another new plane if yours gets shot up before you take off and what have you lost, 20 seconds?

Does getting shot down when I’m that far into a bomber mission make me angry? Hell ya it does, but what am I going to do?

Yeah right...that's the same. At least you got in the air and were flying. Not just sitting on the ground warming up the engines. Did you read the thread?

You sir win the prize for quoting out of context, and completely failing to see the point! :rolleyes:

[SiThSpAwN]

My personal experience on this subject is I am ok with it, I fly Red mostly, I have launched from coastal airfields quite a few times, and to be honest if I cant get off the ground there I launch farther back... if Blue controls the air over our airfields... sorta seems like our fault :)

[SiThSpAwN]

I thought it was 'vulcherizationessness'.

Taken from wikipedia: supercalifragilisticexpialivulchious

Dont ask me to show my sources... they need to remain protected...

[ATAG_Septic]

Why do all you ATAG guys take everything as a personal attack when the economics of gameplay is brought up about your current server condition?

Ok, I'll try and explain what I believe to be your error. Generalization, "All you ATAG guys", it's similar to your generalizations about the server, without evidence and incorrect.

You seem to be unable to contribute to the discussion in a positive manner. The ATAG server is merely an attempt by a generous fan of the game to provide a means to enjoy the game. I do fear though that this facility may not be available to any of us much longer. I can only hope that there's another out there with the ability and resources necessary to provide similar.

I remain entirely unclear as to your point. I believe you have the answers to your generalized criticism available both here and at ATAG. You know this so there is perhaps another agenda, I'd like to know what it is.

I hope you are able to believe that I don't take any of your comments personally, I don't respect you so I cannot afford them sufficient weight but I do see the damage they do, hence my response.

I hope that you can become a little more positive and accurate in your criticism as such effort is useful and welcomed.

Septic.

[pstyle]

Why do all you ATAG guys take everything as a personal attack when the economics of gameplay is brought up about your current server condition?

prove that they took this as a "personal attack" (TM) first before you go asking why.

[AbortedMan]

A few ideas:

1.- We can bring down the server - No more complaints
2.- We can ban all the complainers - No more complaints
3.- We can password protect the server - No more complaints

Maybe this way, whiners will create their own server and make amazingly great missions that every one (read 100%) of the pilots love. I think that with this incentive, many incredibly good servers will pop up!

Thanks,
ATAG_Colander

The online community attempts to address an issue that they feel needs attention and you call it complaints and threaten with shutting down/banning/locking...nice.

This thread is a lot better than most on this forum. It's fairly constructive criticism and the posts are mostly thought-out and voiced concerns of player's opinions, why the instant "troll" label?

[Flanker35M]

S!

Vulching/spawn camping/insert your word here/ is present in any game. Live with it or quit playing/change game/server/whatever if the server allows it. Personally I do not do it..if I catch a plane on ground with my bombs if the field is a target listed then it is a bonus. But staying near a hornets' nest = begging for trouble :) Rather go in fast for the target and get the hell out even faster :)

[pstyle]

The online community attempts to address an issue that they feel needs attention and you call it complaints

They raised an issue, but in the negative. This is otherwise known as a complaint. I call it a complaint.
It's a complaint.

[SiThSpAwN]

I bet most real 109 pilots would rather have caught British planes on the ground than in the air :D

[ATAG_Colander]

The online community attempts to address an issue that they feel needs attention and you call it complaints and threaten with shutting down/banning/locking...nice.

This thread is a lot better than most on this forum. It's fairly constructive criticism and the posts are mostly thought-out and voiced concerns of player's opinions, why the instant "troll" label?

1.- Is not "The online community". Is a handful of people.
2.- It will be fairly constructive once all the "critics" have their own server and share experiences in mission building. Until then, criticizing is just that, criticizing.
3.- When some one that does have the experience tries to explain why things are one way or the other and I see him get attacked by people with no interest in understanding what is being said, I call that trolling.
4.- When trolls attack, people gets tired of trolls.
5.- When people gets tired of trolls....

[AbortedMan]

They raised an issue, but in the negative. This is otherwise known as a complaint. I call it a complaint.
It's a complaint.

Way to paraphrase and take that sentence out of context...try using the entire piece of what someone says when you quote next time. It'll keep the discussion on track.

If 1C threatened with banning/shutting down/locking the game for people that tried to raise an issue, but in the negative...aka, a "complaint" do you think that'd be a valid way to support/address/improve things for people?

Someone has an opinion so they vocalized it on a forum, where it belongs. The OP had a legitimate concern, and as broken as his English may be, he was constructive and civil...now 9 pages later you're bickering at me about the definition of a "complaint," server admins are talking of shutting down servers and banning the people stating their opinions...it's ridiculous.

I should just start acting like the real troll that I'm being treated like, CAPSLOCK and trollface pics and all.

[AbortedMan]

1.- Is not "The online community". Is a handful of people.
2.- It will be fairly constructive once all the "critics" have their own server and share experiences in mission building. Until then, criticizing is just that, criticizing.
3.- When some one that does have the experience tries to explain why things are one way or the other and I see him get attacked by people with no interest in understanding what is being said, I call that trolling.
4.- When trolls attack, people gets tired of trolls.
5.- When people gets tired of trolls....

Dude, the online community IS a handful of people!

[ATAG_Septic]

Way to paraphrase and take that sentence out of context...try using the entire piece of what someone says when you quote next time. It'll keep the discussion on track.

If 1C threatened with banning/shutting down/locking the game for people that tried to raise an issue, but in the negative...aka, a "complaint" do you think that'd be a valid way to support/address/improve things for people?

Someone has an opinion so they vocalized it on a forum, where it belongs. The OP had a legitimate concern, and as broken as his English may be, he was constructive and civil...now 9 pages later you're bickering at me about the definition of a "complaint," server admins are talking of shutting down servers and banning the people stating their opinions...it's ridiculous.

I should just start acting like the real troll that I'm being treated like, CAPSLOCK and trollface pics and all.

I believe you are misunderstanding the situation entirely and that this misunderstanding fuels your grievance and attitude. I prefer to believe this to the only other alternative, that you are indeed a Troll.

ATAG is not a corporation, it's not a business, there's no grand-plan, it all hinges on one man. You perhaps don't believe it but it is merely an individual's altruistic endeavor.

Please prove my belief right, understand the real situation and call an end to this.

Septic.

[klem]

Feet back on the ground and a lesson from history. Please forgive me if I don't get the books off the shelf and trawl through for the exact airfield and Geshwader but Al Deere in his book "Nine Lives" and Pierre Closterman (who was on the same raid in a different Squadron) in his book "The Big Show" tell of the time they took off across the channel to a LW airfield to where FW190s had just relocated.

The plan was for Deere's wing to fly at treetop level to the LW field and hit them on the ground. The French Squadron was to loiter south at low altitude to intercept any interference from other LW units.

As Deere's Wing approached the field they saw from a distance the entire Geschwader lined up for takeoff. By the time they go there the alarm had been raised and the FWs were up and running in all directions. They shot up what they could at the field but if they had arrived two minutes earlier.......

Yes there was lots of flak but most of them got away with it due to surprise.

There are other similar stories.

So, expect it, it happens/happened. Extend your gameplay experience. Take off from a safe field, fly with others, get position and advantage if you can. If you want simple safe lone-wolf shoot 'em ups fly somewhere other than ATAG. Try the Repka servers.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Way to paraphrase and take that sentence out of context...try using the entire piece of what someone says when you quote next time. It'll keep the discussion on track.

If 1C threatened with banning/shutting down/locking the game for people that tried to raise an issue, but in the negative...aka, a "complaint" do you think that'd be a valid way to support/address/improve things for people?

Someone has an opinion so they vocalized it on a forum, where it belongs. The OP had a legitimate concern, and as broken as his English may be, he was constructive and civil...now 9 pages later you're bickering at me about the definition of a "complaint," server admins are talking of shutting down servers and banning the people stating their opinions...it's ridiculous.

I should just start acting like the real troll that I'm being treated like, CAPSLOCK and trollface pics and all.

All you've done is act like a troll with every single one of your posts. I've already answered your questions 10x now. And if you had any sort of clue about the FMB or what's possible in the current online situation you would have left it alone or believed when I said we HAVE to do things a certain way because of certain issues.

And you're trying to compare 1c to us? 1c is a company that makes money. People are paying for their products. ATAG on the other hand has a small amount of people that aren't being paid and doing work on their own free time and spend our own money to try to give to the community. You are pathetic. And you will not be frequenting our server anymore.

[pstyle]

Way to paraphrase and take that sentence out of context......now 9 pages later you're bickering at me about the definition of a "complaint," .

So, how does that make you feel?

[AbortedMan]

Haha oh this is rich.

I've never once addressed you, Bliss, in any of my posts until you chimed in and I was replying. Look back at anything I've said before replying to you and you'll see I was merely discussing thd cause and effects of player's actions in an online mission (not even referring to ATAG's missions, mind you), but you've seemed to take it as a personal jab, for what reason I don't know.

If you want to ban me from your server for talking about game mechanics, that's your perogative, but get your ban hammer ready, because if it isn't me it's going to be someone else.

Funny how you'd ban myself for posting on a forum, non-slanderous opinions btw, but you won't ban known cheaters.

[AbortedMan]

I'm a troll

Not too worried about it.

[Fjordmonkey]

The online community attempts to address an issue that they feel needs attention and you call it complaints and threaten with shutting down/banning/locking...nice.

Ahem. You don't speak for anyone but yourself, or a small subset of the CLoD-community, at the very best. Just sayin'

This thread is a lot better than most on this forum. It's fairly constructive criticism and the posts are mostly thought-out and voiced concerns of player's opinions, why the instant "troll" label?

It WAS constructive, until it turned into a slugfest against everything and anyone ATAG.

Now, I'm not affiliated with them in any way, shape or form, but my pervious arguement still stands: If you don't like how they run THEIR server that THEY pay for, don't play on it. Simple as that.

You want a No Vulching-rule? Set up and pay for your own server.
You want a "fair" fight? Set up and pay for your own server.
You want to set which rules apply to where, when and who? Set up and pay for your own server.

Because right now all you're doing is step into another man's livingroom and demanding he change the color of the paint on the wall since it doesn't appeal to you.

[ATAG_Septic]

Haha oh this is rich.

I've never once addressed you, Bliss, in any of my posts until you chimed in and I was replying. Look back at anything I've said before replying to you and you'll see I was merely discussing thd cause and effects of player's actions in an online mission (not even referring to ATAG's missions, mind you), but you've seemed to take it as a personal jab, for what reason I don't know.

If you want to ban me from your server for talking about game mechanics, that's your perogative, but get your ban hammer ready, because if it isn't me it's going to be someone else.

Funny how you'd ban myself for posting on a forum, non-slanderous opinions btw, but you won't ban known cheaters.

It's less funny however how you chose to ignore all my responses and attempts to explain the situation to you.

I suspect it's your manner old chum, I've tried quite politely to explain this. For another example; Who precisely is cheating? Where, when how?

In all honesty I don't care any longer. Your prediction that there will be many others like you is, like all your assertions, a meaningless generalization. Thankfully the only evidence we have to judge the likely accuracy of your prediction that "...it will be someone else" shows precisely the opposite. There's only been one other I believe in the last year and a half. The vast majority of those who inhabit the server are fair-playing, fair-minded gamers seeking to pursue their harmless hobby for fun. Hopefully it will be as long again before we see your like again.

Cheerio,

Septic.

[zapatista]

Feet back on the ground and a lesson from history. Please forgive me if I don't get the books off the shelf and trawl through for the exact airfield and Geshwader but Al Deere in his book "Nine Lives" and Pierre Closterman (who was on the same raid in a different Squadron) in his book "The Big Show" tell of the time they took off across the channel to a LW airfield to where FW190s had just relocated.

The plan was for Deere's wing to fly at treetop level to the LW field and hit them on the ground. The French Squadron was to loiter south at low altitude to intercept any interference from other LW units.

As Deere's Wing approached the field they saw from a distance the entire Geschwader lined up for takeoff. By the time they go there the alarm had been raised and the FWs were up and running in all directions. They shot up what they could at the field but if they had arrived two minutes earlier.......

Yes there was lots of flak but most of them got away with it due to surprise.

There are other similar stories.........

except of course that on the current ATAG server (which is only important in this discussion because it is the only major CoD server that has been running for a number of months so that is where new players are likely to go to first) there is no decent AA at these forward allied airfields, and no sirens warning of camping vultures when you spawn there, and additional it is the permanent same fake-real air quake scenario every day at those airfields, that's what makes it boring and fake

in your above historical example, just pretend there was no AA present, and the same thing happened day in day out during the whole 4 year war, do you really think that the germans at that airfield would be looking at each other in amazement "ahh ze brittish they are so smart, every day now they come and bomb us and we are alwayz completely zurprised by them, ze AA guys are having a nap unt ze air tower guys have gone to ze pub unt forgot to set ze alarms, these clever british always seem to know this ahead of time and just keep shooting up our planes on ze ground"

realistic ? err nope !

[Volksieg]

Dunno if this has been said already as I couldn't be bothered to go through all the guff on this thread. (I save that for when it is 2am and I need a good giggle. :D)

Cheating is finding a way, through nefarious means, to have a bullet proof plane or, perhaps, infinite ammo on a realistic settings server.

Vulching is WAR.

This is a simulation of war.

It is very frustrating being Vulched but, as it is a simulation of a war, I'm fairly sure dying or losing a war and having your country invaded is a bit of an inconvenience also. :D

[senseispcc]

.
Hello,
First I am sorry I begun all this polemic about this tactics of “vultures”.
Personally I am against, not because it is not realistic, because it is not really in the beginning of the war but more at the end when the numbers where staked against one side that could not do anything against the superiority of the other side. It is not the same to have a hit and run raid against a airfield and a “vulture” airplane(s) waiting for a victim to take of or land. The Allies with their offensive tactics did do it sometime until the cost was to expensive due to the “flack” or the defensive patrols above such airfields (expl.ME262/FW190d9).
But this is a game and I see no fun for either the person that sho (not down because the plane taking of is not airborne) at the person that is trying to take off and it is certainly no fun for the person how is shoot at how did warm up his engine, made his circuit around the airfield to align at the end of the runway to be shoot at the precise moment where his rudder wheel is lifting his plane does crash. Otherwise we shall end up with servers with 20 Germans against 1 new RAF pilot how can never take off? Or the other way around! If this is your definition of fun so be it! Have fun your way. I am trying to find the right server, balanced where someone with glasses can see an adversary from time to time at equal terms.
Have a nice time with this great game. Never forget this is a game.
:-P

[ATAG_Snapper]

.
Hello,
First I am sorry I begun all this polemic about this tactics of “vultures”.
Personally I am against, not because it is not realistic, because it is not really in the beginning of the war but more at the end when the numbers where staked against one side that could not do anything against the superiority of the other side. It is not the same to have a hit and run raid against a airfield and a “vulture” airplane(s) waiting for a victim to take of or land. The Allies with their offensive tactics did do it sometime until the cost was to expensive due to the “flack” or the defensive patrols above such airfields (expl.ME262/FW190d9).
But this is a game and I see no fun for either the person that sho (not down because the plane taking of is not airborne) at the person that is trying to take off and it is certainly no fun for the person how is shoot at how did warm up his engine, made his circuit around the airfield to align at the end of the runway to be shoot at the precise moment where his rudder wheel is lifting his plane does crash. Otherwise we shall end up with servers with 20 Germans against 1 new RAF pilot how can never take off? Or the other way around! If this is your definition of fun so be it! Have fun your way. I am trying to find the right server, balanced where someone with glasses can see an adversary from time to time at equal terms.
Have a nice time with this great game. Never forget this is a game.
:-P

"Every time I put my hand on THAT workbench, someone smashes it with a hammer!"

Then why don't you put your hand on another workbench?

Reply: "Every time I put my hand on THAT workbench, someone smashes it with a hammer!"

:confused:

[ATAG_Bliss]

except of course that on the current ATAG server (which is only important in this discussion because it is the only major CoD server that has been running for a number of months so that is where new players that want to try a server are likely to go) there is no decent AA at these forward allied airfields, and no sirens warning of camping vultures when you spawn there, and additional it is the permanent same fake-real air quake scenario every day at those airfields, that's what makes it boring and fake

in your above historical example, just pretend there was no AA present, and the same thing happened day in day out, with the germans looking at each other in amazement "ahh ze brittish they are so smart, every day now they come and bomb us and we are alwayz completely zurprised by them, ze AA guys are having a nap unt ze air tower guys have gone to ze pub unt forgot to set ze alarms, these clever british always seem to know this ahead of time and just keep shooting up our planes on ze ground, maybe zey vil even vin ze war like this"

realistic ? err nope !

There's literally thousands of AAA on our missions. If you'd do some research instead of just blabbing off the mouth about stuff you don't know about, you'd also realize there's been many complaints about the sheer number of AAA/Flak we do have. (AKA - people getting shot down by them) The effectiveness of the AAA (which we have improved heavily over default by how we place them and what units) is not our fault. And if you knew anything about the FMB or anything about missions in the online world, you'd also know that airfield sirens do not work and have never worked since IL2COD was released.

Can't wait to see your realistic perfect mission rotations that magically have all the stuff working in game that is broken. Please enlighten us oh mighty keyboard hero..

[zapatista]

Vulching is WAR.

This is a simulation of war.

It is very frustrating being Vulched but, as it is a simulation of a war, I'm fairly sure dying or losing a war and having your country invaded is a bit of an inconvenience also. :D

i dont think anybody is complaining about somebody trying to attack a normally functioning and well defended airfield (as those brittish coastal bases were in that time period), the legitimate complaint is about some online servers being the equivalent of air quake servers tailor made for point whores and then calling themselves "full real"

[ATAG_Doc]

Please gentlemen can we all just get along? :) It's pointless talking about this it wont change anything. Just get on coms. I never spawned in on a base that is under attack. I just simply ask others for a status its no problem.

[ATAG_Doc]

i dont think anybody is complaining about somebody trying to attack a normally functioning and well defended airfield (as those brittish coastal bases were in that time period), the legitimate complaint is about some online servers being the equivalent of air quake servers tailor made for point whores and then calling themselves "full real"

And you'd have ATAG change it to suit your desires?

[Volksieg]

.
The Allies with their offensive tactics did do it sometime until the cost was to expensive due to the “flack” or the defensive patrols above such airfields (expl.ME262/FW190d9).


Then there you go... evidence of vulching during WW2 :)

I don't vulch, personally, as I have enough of a problem flying my plane to bother with such tactics. :D I have been at the receiving end a couple of times, mind.

Why doesn't it bother me?

.
But this is a game.....Never forget this is a game.


;)

[Volksieg]

i dont think anybody is complaining about somebody trying to attack a normally functioning and well defended airfield (as those brittish coastal bases were in that time period), the legitimate complaint is about some online servers being the equivalent of air quake servers tailor made for point whores and then calling themselves "full real"

Yeah.. I can see that but there are a whole host of servers to choose.... if people want 'Airquake' let them have it! 'Full Real' is only referring to the game settings, after all. I'm glad that is all it is referring to as, if it wasn't, I'd be dead by now...... just from trying to land. LOL

[AbortedMan]

There's literally thousands of AAA on our missions. If you'd do some research instead of just blabbing off the mouth about stuff you don't know about, you'd also realize there's been many complaints about the sheer number of AAA/Flak we do have. (AKA - people getting shot down by them) The effectiveness of the AAA (which we have improved heavily over default by how we place them and what units) is not our fault. And if you knew anything about the FMB or anything about missions in the online world, you'd also know that airfield sirens do not work and have never worked since IL2COD was released.

Can't wait to see your realistic perfect mission rotations that magically have all the stuff working in game that is broken. Please enlighten us oh mighty keyboard hero..

Such a negative response to a legitimate vocalization of a person's opinion...why? What is your rage issue with people talking about your mission and FMB? Sarcastic quips in a potentially informative post achieve nothing but forum degradation.

The guy obviously has seen a lack of anti-air efficacy, and he isn't the only one. You think maybe there might be an issue?...just maybe?

[zapatista]

And you'd have ATAG change it to suit your desires?

since you make a sensible civilized statement that addresses one of the issues under discussion, i'll give you the courtesy of doing the same :)

there are multiple solutions possible to the vulching issue which is currently totally disproportionate to historical events. as an initial practical step (presuming of course ATAG is trying to SIMULATE historical events), any of those brittish coastal airbases need to have some form of effective defense that prevents the fake current situation where vultures can camp unchallenged over certain airbases perpetually ( as was clearly not the case historically)

if there is currently no working air raid sirens, then the volume of flak and light AA guns going of at an airbase you spawn to will give enough warning (and increase the risk for those trying to attack them)

[SiThSpAwN]

since you make a sensible civilized statement that addresses one of the issues under discussion, i'll give you the courtesy of doing the same :)

there are multiple solutions possible to the vulching issue which is currently totally disproportionate to historical events. as an initial practical step, any of those brittish coastal airbases need to have some form of effective defense that prevents the fake current situation where vultures can camp unchallenged over certain airbases perpetually ( as was clearly not the case historically)

if there is currently no working air raid sirens, then the volume of flak and light AA guns going of at an airbase you spawn to will give enough warning (and increase the risk for those trying to attack them)

Or you could take off from another airbase... seems to be a number of coastal airfields, I cant believe they are all covered by enemy fighters all the time, in fact I know they arent as I havent been vulched much if at all on ATAG.

[Volksieg]

There's literally thousands of AAA on our missions. If you'd do some research instead of just blabbing off the mouth about stuff you don't know about, you'd also realize there's been many complaints about the sheer number of AAA/Flak we do have. (AKA - people getting shot down by them) The effectiveness of the AAA (which we have improved heavily over default by how we place them and what units) is not our fault. And if you knew anything about the FMB or anything about missions in the online world, you'd also know that airfield sirens do not work and have never worked since IL2COD was released.

Can't wait to see your realistic perfect mission rotations that magically have all the stuff working in game that is broken. Please enlighten us oh mighty keyboard hero..

Actually.... I'd like to complain also. I keep getting shot down by AAA when flying on your server. I don't think it is kind and I don't think it is fair. I suggest that, next time I fly on ATAG, you gift me with an indestructible 109 complete with miniature atom bomb and lasers...... just to even things out as I feel well rotten! I really do! ;)

[AbortedMan]

since you make a sensible civilized statement that addresses one of the issues under discussion, i'll give you the courtesy of doing the same :)

there are multiple solutions possible to the vulching issue which is currently totally disproportionate to historical events. as an initial practical step (presuming of course ATAG is trying to SIMULATE historical events), any of those brittish coastal airbases need to have some form of effective defense that prevents the fake current situation where vultures can camp unchallenged over certain airbases perpetually ( as was clearly not the case historically)

if there is currently no working air raid sirens, then the volume of flak and light AA guns going of at an airbase you spawn to will give enough warning (and increase the risk for those trying to attack them)

May I ask you why, specifically, you are against vulching? Is it because you are getting killed too frequently while taking off, or because you are tired of everyone being over the same area for an entire mission while objectives lay incomplete? Or something else entirely?

I'm the latter.

[SiThSpAwN]

May I ask you why, specifically, you are against vulching? Is it because you are getting killed too frequently while taking off, or because you are tired of everyone being over the same area for an entire mission while objectives lay incomplete? Or something else entirely?

I'm the latter.

Either way its not ATAG or any other server operators fault if people wont play the objectives...

[AbortedMan]

Either way its not ATAG or any other server operators fault if people wont play the objectives...

People don't play the objectives because a lot are pre-occupied with base defending/attacking. This makes the objectives just like attacking AI in an SP quick mission when there's a very low chance of encountering another player, it gets boring and a lot don't want to do that when playing online.

[Volksieg]

What gets me about this whole "Vulching ruins the game" brou-ha is this.....

I am not immune to the odd session of Battlefield. I know... that is a big thing to admit to on a Simulator forum but... hey... coming out takes guts! lol

There have been times, in the many iterations of that series, where I have spawned in only to see enemy copters over head, tanks firing left, right and center, soldiers running over the hills towards me.... bang... dead! I respawn.... bang... dead! I respawn again and manage to last 5 minutes...etc

I find that hilarious! I enjoy that 'Custer's last stand'/ Ragnarok feeling. :D Meanwhile the chat window is filled with endless moaning and crying......

Why can't people just chill out and enjoy this game? If it upsets you so much, switch to a different server... or a different airfield for that matter! Play again later, perhaps... it's not like ATAG, for example, is just a vulchfest 24/7, is it? Or... try taking off before the enemy and vulching them? :D

[ATAG_Doc]

As I said before take off faster. That will solve his problem.

[Attila]

In the beginning, when i was flying the first time on ATAG server i was vulched too. Most of the time it was the same player! I wrote here to change the rules on ATAG. After a little time i took it as a part of the game! Me for myself do not vulch, i wait till the enemy is in the air then i do attack! So the enemy has a chance to survive!:cool:

[SiThSpAwN]

People don't play the objectives because a lot are pre-occupied with base defending/attacking. This makes the objectives just like attacking AI in an SP quick mission when there's a very low chance of encountering another player, it gets boring and a lot don't want to do that when playing online.


I guess my issue with that statement is any experience I have had with ATAG, Blue is hard after the objectives, and generally I can find enemies to fight around those targets...

[Marmusman]

It is a free market economy....ATAG is the most populated server whenever I fly...their PayPal donations exceed their monthly need each month that I have ever looked at it on their website....thus I don't think Vulching is a very big issue for most pilots.

I have never been vulched at a Blue base. I only bomb the Red airbases with JU-88, I can't even strafe, since they have no guns.

[ATAG_Septic]

It is a free market economy....ATAG is the most populated server whenever I fly...their PayPal donations exceed their monthly need each month that I have ever looked at it on their website....thus I don't think Vulching is a very big issue for most pilots.

I have never been vulched at a Blue base. I only bomb the Red airbases with JU-88, I can't even strafe, since they have no guns.

Just to be clear, any surplus is carried in full to the next month and the person who rents the server is out of pocket a significant amount each month, which he does by choice, at the moment.

Septic.

[FFCW_Urizen]

I guess my issue with that statement is any experience I have had with ATAG, Blue is hard after the objectives, and generally I can find enemies to fight around those targets...

Which is no doubt attributed to the fact that blues have a wide range of bombers to choose from, reds only have the blenheim at their disposal.

[SiThSpAwN]

Which is no doubt attributed to the fact that blues have a wide range of bombers to choose from, reds only have the blenheim at their disposal.

DO you mean Red's dont like the bomber they have and want more variety? Otherwise the numbers available are the same are they not?

[AbortedMan]

Is it safe to assume *most* (not all, don't wanna go generalizing anything because people start crying) pro-vultures are primarily blue pilots?

I'm noticing that trend.

[recoilfx]

I would tend to agree with you on that point, but remember, reds tend defend and don't venture over.

I welcome reds vulchering the blue bases anytime, saves me the trip...

[JG52Krupi]

Funny how the biggest vulcher is a red pilot :rolleyes:

[AbortedMan]

Funny how the biggest vulcher is a red pilot :rolleyes:

What is a "biggest vulcher" and who has earned this seemingly prestigious title?

[Volksieg]

I would tend to agree with you on that point, but remember, reds tend defend and don't venture over.

I welcome reds vulchering the blue bases anytime, saves me the trip...

That is true! I think, in all my time flying in this game, I have only seen 4 red pilots on the axis side of the channel (Incidentally, they vulched me. LOL).... most of the time it is us blue pilots who do all the travelling and the red pilots just circle around the same old airfields... and that is the story on every server that uses the channel map I have flown on.

Why is that anyway? Come on over to occupied France, Allies! The ground textures and shading are much nicer over here! None of that radioactive green! :D Plus.. you haven't seen 'Noddy Towns' till you've seen some on the continent...... and, if you have ever been to mainland Europe in real life..... you know they are pretty realistic. :D

[CaptainDoggles]

This thread is FREAKING HILARIOUS! :lol:

People whining about "honor" and "chivalry" as if this is a medieval jousting tournament, and wanting a magic safe zone over top of air bases.

Do you guys also complain when someone comes in from above you? Because it's not fair? Should all dogfights start with both pilots at the exact same speed and altitude, and a head-on pass so both pilots have a chance to see each other?

There's a server for 1946 that has easy-mode rules like a magical safe zone around the bases. It's called Spits vs 109s, and they will kick/ban you if you fly over top of a base (even if you're at 9000m). They're a joke outside their insular little community, because most folks realize that their rules promote careless play and an attitude of entitlement.

There was no magical force-field in real life. There was no deflector shield on the runway at Folkestone. Why do you want one? This isn't Tag, or Go To Rome like we used to play on the playground. There is no "home free" in air combat; why do you want one?

Chivalry and honor in air combat died well before the end of the first world war, and anyone who isn't wilfully deceiving themselves knows it.

If you're not zooming in from above on an unsuspecting target, then quite frankly you're doing it wrong.

[FFCW_Urizen]

DO you mean Red's dont like the bomber they have and want more variety? Otherwise the numbers available are the same are they not?

Ok, let´s have a look available to the Blues:

Fighterbomber 109E3/B, 109E4/B, which after release is a fighter and you can engage in a dogfight. so if you want to do a lil bit of blasting and fighting at the same time, it is one of your choices.

Divebomber JU-87, while not as powerful in a climb as the 109, after release it´s quite agile and if you know how to handle it, it can engage in a dogfight, esp. with current fm.

Destroyer 110C-4, 110C-7, oh what a beautiful runway, let´s make it more beautiful by dropping 2 500kg eggs. Oh what, you didn´t like my eggs, have a lil taste of my cannons then, maybe that´s more to your liking.

Levelbomber HE-111, JU-88, that factory has to go!

There is a bomber for each and every type of player out there on the blue side, whereas the reds are just stuck with their blenheim. And yes there are of course passionate blenny pilots, but nothing for players, who would like to fly something like a stuka, destroyer, fighterbomber.

S!

[CaptainDoggles]

Is it safe to assume *most* (not all, don't wanna go generalizing anything because people start crying) pro-vultures are primarily blue pilots?

I'm noticing that trend.

Is it safe to assume *most* (not all, don't wanna go generalizing anything because people start crying) whiners who insist that everyone only plays the way that the whiners want are primarily red pilots?

I'm noticing that trend.

[SiThSpAwN]

Here is me getting "vulched" as I come in for a landing... I was minding my own business, I was delivering some tea and crumpets to so lovely British ladies, and to add insult to injury someone tried to drop some bombs on my head... it was all quite rude...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_rKBkiAWyA

[pstyle]

I keep seeing messages on the text bar saying that aircraft have been shot down by flak.
I protest.
There is obviously too much flak above the bases.

[ATAG_Dutch]

I keep seeing messages on the text bar saying that aircraft have been shot down by flak.
I protest.
There is obviously too much flak above the bases.

That's not strictly true pstyle, there are too many bases under the flak. That's what it is. ;)

[Catseye]

First off, ATAG has lots of Flak guarding both RAF and Luftwaffe airfields. I've been hit by Flak so many times over England at 3500m that I try to avoid the area completely.

Secondly, in the last 3 months I can count the number of times I have been shot before takeoff on one finger. It's not that people aren't doing it, it's because I'm on Teamspeak for a few minutes before I even enter the game and have an understanding of what's going on before I even create a plane.

As to the ridiculous notion that Blue has better airfield placement and therefore is less susceptible to being pinned down by people shooting planes on the ground, maybe you should go back to 1940 and tell the RAF to move those damn airfields further away from each other.

If you think being shot full of holes 10 seconds after creating a plane is annoying, try taking off 70km from the French coast, forming up a group of three bombers, and being shot down an hour into your flight 3 minutes before you reach target. You can create another new plane if yours gets shot up before you take off and what have you lost, 20 seconds?

Does getting shot down when I’m that far into a bomber mission make me angry? Hell ya it does, but what am I going to do? Should I blame the spitfire pilot for being smart enough to find us, and for doing exactly what I would have done if I’d come across 3 Blennys while flying a 109?

AbortedMan, you mention the night when I was involved in bouncing you when you left Hawkinge and then meeting you again when you took off from Manston. I apologize for this, next time I will try not to out-smart you when you are on the server.

S! Keller,
I want to say first that I would not like to see any artificial restrictions on how players are to "fly". Rules as shown in other servers like puting bonfires near an airfield and stating that the next 5 square miles is off limits for attacking IMHO is unrealistic and a large impact on the suspension of disbelief. I support ATAG's general approach to their server. I do have opinions though, as do others, on possible ways to alleviate some issues.

So switching to bombers and attacking bombers; I do so love the challenge of the hunt for those bombers that are human piloted. Many times I pass up the AI bomber flights in my quest to locate the human flown bomber. I have to think about what targets are available in England, what type the bomber is, what will be the pilots strategy, what will be his tactics to realize his strategy and so forth. Many times I have been in one place on the map to find the target at the other end of the map is being bombed.

I sometimes take a flight to where I know the bombers take off from in the hopes of seeing one inbound or outbound. I refrain from attacking any bombers on the ground but would rather catch them in the air. Doc has successfully evaded me by flying through the cloud layers. I've learned the possible routes and set up barcaps in the general area they may cross. The bomber pilots are now wise to this and are taking other routes. Also, with the addition of high altitude bombing, the barcap becomes more problematic.

What I would suggest for the ATAG server regarding bombers flights would be to: Open up a few more blue airbases where the heavies can take off from. I know the two main blue bases now and the moment I see a heavy in the net stats list, I'm heading to intercept before the pilot has got his engines started. More airfields makes it harder for me to figure out where the attack is coming from.

I would also like to see a couple of more airbases for the Red side for Blenheim flights. I don't think that Blue heavies take off from coastal airfields and having a Blenheim base on the coast and in close proximity to furball city Hawkinge, is somewhat problematic. Perhaps even discouraging some to even try to fly the Blenheim to targets. Could you assign valid targets for some blue airfield hangars for reds to attack as this would be somewhat historic. Even deep into France.

So Keller and other Blue Bomber pilots, I do enjoy the hunt for you guys and will continue to do so as best I can. Hopefully some tweaks might help to improve Blue bomber odds for making it across the channel. But, when you reach the shores of Old Blighty - all bets are off. :)

Looking forward to future "Cat" and Mouse games.

S! and good flying!

[AbortedMan]

Is it safe to assume *most* (not all, don't wanna go generalizing anything because people start crying) whiners who insist that everyone only plays the way that the whiners want are primarily red pilots?

I'm noticing that trend.

Real astute, constructive response to my observation there. And I'm the one getting ganged up on for being a troll.

[CaptainDoggles]

Real astute, constructive response to my observation there. And I'm the one getting ganged up on for being a troll.
You want to make generalizations about blue pilots? I'll make some of my own about red pilots.

How bout them apples?

[SiThSpAwN]

You want to make generalizations about blue pilots? I'll make some of my own about red pilots.

How bout them apples?

If a red pilot and a blue pilot had sex, would they have a purple baby?

[CaptainDoggles]

If a red pilot and a blue pilot had sex, would they have a purple baby?

That's racist.

[ATAG_Colander]

If a red pilot and a blue pilot had sex, would they have a purple baby?

They would have a miracle as I don't know any female pilots, blue or red.

[SiThSpAwN]

That's racist.


Only if the purple baby wasnt allowed to play on the ATAG server....

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hey Cats, good input re more/widely spaced heavy bomber fields for both sides. Even if the physical placements are too problematic at present with the current map and FMB quirks (don't know, just sayin'), we could possibly look at different air start locales instead as a temporary work around.

I just didn't like your accusatory tone, is all.

J/K :grin:

[Catseye]

Hey Cats, good input re more/widely spaced heavy bomber fields for both sides. Even if the physical placements are too problematic at present with the current map and FMB quirks (don't know, just sayin'), we could possibly look at different air start locales instead as a temporary work around.

I just didn't like your accusatory tone, is all.

J/K :grin:

Thats it!!!

Black powder pistols at 15,000 ft. :) :)

[ATAG_Keller]

S! right back at you Cats!

The mental game between bomber pilots and the fighters seeking to intercept them is just another element of fun that this sim brings. If I see Catseye in the server I know he'll be looking for me, so I never take the same route twice. My job is to stay one move ahead until the "check" that is dropping my bombs, and the "check-mate" that is getting back home.

Keep up the hunt Cats!

[ATAG_Doc]

They would have a miracle as I don't know any female pilots, blue or red.

If there is a female pilot she will be blue, hot and a 109 driver.

Then CoD MP blue side will have an unmanned drone in its inventory.

[Ze-Jamz]

Manged to get this screenshot last night..
http://cdn.static.ovimg.com/episode/24527.jpg

[ATAG_Dutch]

Manged to get this screenshot last night..
http://cdn.static.ovimg.com/episode/24527.jpg

Ah yes! Harmony, Destiny and ermmm....the others. Or was her name Dysentry? I was so jealous of the Captain when I was a kid. Fit bunch of pilots the Angels were. ;)

[Ze-Jamz]

Ah yes! Harmony, Destiny and ermmm....the others. Or was her name Dysentry? I was so jealous of the Captain when I was a kid. Fit bunch of pilots the Angels were. ;)

Destiny, Symphony, Rhapsody, Melody and Harmony.

Yes indeedy...the first puppets i fancied.. followed by

http://random-squeegee.com/images/creepy_zelda.jpg

[ATAG_Dutch]

Destiny, Symphony, Rhapsody, Melody and Harmony.

Yes indeedy...the first puppets i fancied.. followed by

http://random-squeegee.com/images/creepy_zelda.jpg

Zelda from the Terrahawks. A lovely lady I do declare.

Marina from Stingray was the perfect woman though, I always thought.

[klem]

except of course that on the current ATAG server (which is only important in this discussion because it is the only major CoD server that has been running for a number of months so that is where new players are likely to go to first) there is no decent AA at these forward allied airfields, and no sirens warning of camping vultures when you spawn there, and additional it is the permanent same fake-real air quake scenario every day at those airfields, that's what makes it boring and fake

in your above historical example, just pretend there was no AA present, and the same thing happened day in day out during the whole 4 year war, do you really think that the germans at that airfield would be looking at each other in amazement "ahh ze brittish they are so smart, every day now they come and bomb us and we are alwayz completely zurprised by them, ze AA guys are having a nap unt ze air tower guys have gone to ze pub unt forgot to set ze alarms, these clever british always seem to know this ahead of time and just keep shooting up our planes on ze ground"

realistic ? err nope !

I do notice there is quite a lot of flak at ATAG RAF fields but it isn't very effective (a CoD issue not a mission design issue I think). And the RL Ack at Tangmere didn't do much good when the Stukas arrived on 16th August 1940 although I think about 9 or 10 were shot down by Spitfires and Hurricanes.

Also amusing is that whilst it was Manston that was hit the hardest and most often including 109 strafing attacks (it happened to Deere when he was landing there) until it was eventually abandoned for operations, it doesn't happen much on ATAG, those lazy Blues take the short route to Hawkinge. Realistic? To some extent yes. Hawkinge is CoD's Manston and is almost unuseable on some nights, just like Manston became. Anyone expecting to fly from Hawkinge and get a clear run is being very optimistic.

So, complaining about poor Ack and strafing not being historical is not entirely correct and these are in any case examples of what cannot be avoided on a public server where everyone comes and goes as they like.

Another thing, I don't know if you do zapatista but anyone flying alone is absolutely 'unhistorical', they would never have done that back then. So, fake? Well if it is it's only because people do it! Also RAF units were frequently already flying when their airfields were attacked (not always of course). So its impossible to create a historical public server where people just come and go, fly on their own and then cry 'foul' because it isn't like the BoB. The closest you may get is to fly with a Squadron from a field not being attacked and attempt the mission objectives.

It is what it is and if ATAG can't reproduce strictly historical defences and if its boring then I can only suggest, with the best intentions, that you do try doing something different, like teaming up (ATAG have a TS server), use an inland airfield and searching for the Blues who are increasingly going for their objectives (and ignore the few that really do vulch). Its just a shame the radar doesn't work better so we could intercept those dastardly blues that fly low and hit their objectives.

Many many other posts I could reply to but the answer to most is generally in the previous paragraph.

Regarding CoD Reds not bothering to go to France and always circling the same fields, that's because:
a) the theme of the BoB was to defend against Bombers coming to England (they never had time to go to France and take on those huge bomber and 109 formations although 56 do in CoD to intercept the bombers early..... because we know they will have no escorts)
and
b) we know that's where most Blues are coming to most of the time and we do sometimes get ... ahem.... sucked into the dogfights.

EDIT: And ATAG are trying some new ideas with missions being called up by the players.

[Ze-Jamz]

Zelda from the Terrahawks. A lovely lady I do declare.

Marina from Stingray was the perfect woman though, I always thought.

Yea and Parker was blatantly having fun with Penelope in that pink moving king size bed Thunderbird styleee

[CaptainDoggles]

I do notice there is quite a lot of flak at ATAG RAF fields but it isn't very effective (a CoD issue not a mission design issue I think). And the RL Ack at Tangmere didn't do much good when the Stukas arrived on 16th August 1940 although I think about 9 or 10 were shot down by Spitfires and Hurricanes.

Also amusing is that whilst it was Manston that was hit the hardest and most often including 109 strafing attacks (it happened to Deere when he was landing there) until it was eventually abandoned for operations, it doesn't happen much on ATAG, those lazy Blues take the short route to Hawkinge. Realistic? To some extent yes. Hawkinge is CoD's Manston and is almost unuseable on some nights, just like Manston became. Anyone expecting to fly from Hawkinge and get a clear run is being very optimistic.

So, complaining about poor Ack and strafing not being historical is not entirely correct and these are in any case examples of what cannot be avoided on a public server where everyone comes and goes as they like.

Another thing, I don't know if you do zapatista but anyone flying alone is absolutely 'unhistorical', they would never have done that back then. So, fake? Well if it is it's only because people do it! Also RAF units were frequently already flying when their airfields were attacked (not always of course). So its impossible to create a historical public server where people just come and go, fly on their own and then cry 'foul' because it isn't like the BoB. The closest you may get is to fly with a Squadron from a field not being attacked and attempt the mission objectives.

It is what it is and if ATAG can't reproduce strictly historical defences and if its boring then I can only suggest, with the best intentions, that you do try doing something different, like teaming up (ATAG have a TS server), use an inland airfield and searching for the Blues who are increasingly going for their objectives (and ignore the few that really do vulch). Its just a shame the radar doesn't work better so we could intercept those dastardly blues that fly low and hit their objectives.

Many many other posts I could reply to but the answer to most is generally in the previous paragraph.

Regarding CoD Reds not bothering to go to France and always circling the same fields, that's because:
a) the theme of the BoB was to defend against Bombers coming to England (they never had time to go to France and take on those huge bomber and 109 formations although 56 do in CoD to intercept the bombers early..... because we know they will have no escorts)
and
b) we know that's where most Blues are coming to most of the time and we do sometimes get ... ahem.... sucked into the dogfights.

Logic, reason, and level-headedness? I don't think you're allowed to do that, sir.

I'm going to have to write you a citation for this.

[Catseye]

If there is a female pilot she will be blue, hot and a 109 driver.

Then CoD MP blue side will have an unmanned drone in its inventory.

Achtung: Marlena Deitrich aka the Blue Angel at 4,000 M. No shooting from the six postion!!

[ATAG_Doc]

Good post klem. Would like to note the unhistorical significance of having 20+ RAF airborne and only a handful of them on coms.

Or a squad on a second and reachable TS server without having to disconnect and go look it up then connect to it while in the middle of a mission.

What is it about the exclusiveness that is so important that makes your mates so insignificant?

I wish Hugh Dowding was alive today to give his opinion about this. Demand historical!

But only to a point.

[Jaws2002]

senseispcc: The best course of action is to just stay off of ATAG's servers. Things like "honor" and "chivalry" are terms that are lost on these guys and boosting their kills on a leaderboard is all they care about. And most surely don't donate any money to their server.

Thanks for reminding me to revisit the ATAG donation page.:twisted:

[ATAG_Snapper]

Hey, any donations are greatly appreciated....but our strongest wish is that you log on, have fun, and tell us about it! :)

[klem]

Good post klem. Would like to note the unhistorical significance of having 20+ RAF airborne and only a handful of them on coms.

Or a squad on a second and reachable TS server without having to disconnect and go look it up then connect to it while in the middle of a mission.

What is it about the exclusiveness that is so important that makes your mates so insignificant?

I wish Hugh Dowding was alive today to give his opinion about this. Demand historical!

But only to a point.

"What is it about the exclusiveness that is so important that makes your mates so insignificant?" ??

I don't understand.

[AbortedMan]

"What is it about the exclusiveness that is so important that makes your mates so insignificant?" ??

I don't understand.

Just ignore it Klem, the ATAG are rabid today.

[Warhound]

Going to refrain from trying to answer posts in here seriously , but watch this from 10.50 to 11.33 (or watch all of it..it's from an interesting 20 episode series).
Base suppression existed from the very start of the war till the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x37BVCvFRk

[robtek]

Video can't be watched, as it is private.

[Warhound]

Video can't be watched, as it is private.

Should be fixed now, let me know if it isn't and I'll make it public in youtube settings.

[SQB]

11 pages for a thread where the question was answered within the first page?

Pstyle: "I don't operate from Hawkinge, there is ALWAYS a fight over Hawkinge. It's probably the easiest problem to avoid."

The coastal airports are obvious targets, don't spawn there unless you're confident in your air support buddies or you think you're awesome enough to start up, take off and shoot down a bf109 that is constantly making passes on you.

It's your choice.

[Ze-Jamz]

11 pages for a thread where the question was answered within the first page?

Pstyle: "I don't operate from Hawkinge, there is ALWAYS a fight over Hawkinge. It's probably the easiest problem to avoid."

The coastal airports are obvious targets, don't spawn there unless you're confident in your air support buddies or you think you're awesome enough to start up, take off and shoot down a bf109 that is constantly making passes on you.

It's your choice.

Yup

[zapatista]

Going to refrain from trying to answer posts in here seriously , but watch this from 10.50 to 11.33 (or watch all of it..it's from an interesting 20 episode series).
Base suppression existed from the very start of the war till the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x37BVCvFRk

you should watch that video a bit more closely and pay attention to the commentator, because it says exactly the opposite of what you seem to believe

it describes the brittish early part of the war as having a "highly accurate early warning system" with "accurate up to the minute information on enemy plane activity". it also just speaks of organized bombing raids on enemy airfields, but it doesnt say anything about having perpetually little swarms of lone nazi fighter planes camping over undefended brittish airfields as a war strategy, and them then have them shoot up any allied plane that tries to taxi. and all this without a single AA gun going off, no sirens, no warning calls at the brittish base ?

the legitimate complaint by the OP refers to that last scenario, not planned and organized raids by multiple enemy planes on a brittish airfield to try and shut it down for a number of days, or even the lone suicidal enemy fighter trying his luck by doing a quick strafing run at an enemy airfield while on his way home. if a lone fighter tried this, he would be met with some amount of AA and quickly warning sirens/signals would go off at the airfield. and if he was camping over an enemy airfield (not really possible in real life) he would be quickly spotted and reported to be present (and attract some nearby friendly fighters to dislodge him), none of which is the case on the ATAG server

the issue is to presumably try and recreate a historical setting as much as possible, not reward with points an air-quake type behavior that detracts from this. its also not an issue about "making players do what somebody else wants", its about creating a setting on a server that mimics historical events, so most players will gravitate to more realistic gameplay styles (and let the odd fool who wants to try and camp over an airfield be, flak will normally take care of him soon enough (and so would other nearby friendly fighters that get vectored to him)

right now on ATAG its the opposite, it creates undefended forward airfields with no warning systems, and rewards point whores for creating an air quake "anti new joiners" scenario.

[FS~Phat]

This>>>... It's not that people aren't doing it, it's because I'm on Teamspeak for a few minutes before I even enter the game and have an understanding of what's going on before I even create a plane.


Best advice ever... Get on to teamspeak and instead of going it alone cooperate and communicate with your team. A number of times I have come back from a patrol to help clear an airfield when under attack from vulching because some has mentioned it on comms.

This way you know ahead of time to spawn from another base.

I would love for sirens to sound and a bit more AA fire but they have to balance gameplay performance vs realistic scenarios until the multiplayer code is further optimised, or people like Wolf find ways in the mission scripting to do things more efficiently.

For now its not a show stopper and moving bases or getting on comms is an easy solution.

PS... Please ATAG at least put a siren on the bases if you can! ;)

[JG52Krupi]

Phat would a few Jericho sirens do :P

[FS~Phat]

Phat would a few Jericho sirens do :P

:( Not quite the sirens I had in mind! :)

[Warhound]

having perpetually little swarms of lone nazi fighter planes camping over undefended brittish airfields as a war strategy, and them then have them shoot up any allied plane that tries to taxi. and all this without a single AA gun going off, no sirens, no warning calls at the brittish base ?

the legitimate complaint by the OP refers to that last scenario, not planned and organized raids by multiple enemy planes on a brittish airfield to try and shut it down for a number of days, or even the lone suicidal enemy fighter trying his luck by doing a quick strafing run at an enemy airfield while on his way home. if a lone fighter tried this, he would be met with some amount of AA and quickly warning sirens/signals would go off at the airfield. and if he was camping over an enemy airfield (not really possible in real life) he would be quickly spotted and reported to be present (and attract some nearby friendly fighters to dislodge him), none of which is the case on the ATAG server
its about creating a setting on a server that mimics historical events, so most players will gravitate to more realistic gameplay styles (and let the odd fool who wants to try and camp over an airfield be, flak will normally take care of him soon enough (and so would other nearby friendly fighters that get vectored to him)

right now on ATAG its the opposite, it creates undefended forward airfields with no warning systems, and rewards point whores for creating an air quake "anti new joiners" scenario.


What on earth are you actually talking about?

-perpetually little swarms of lone nazi fighter planes camping over undefended brittish airfields

In my many hours on ATAG, most of the time there isn't a single 109 strafing grounded planes.
When flying red I mostly take off from Hawkinge or Littlestone, just because I can. And doing that I've maybe been strafed while taxiing or taking off 5 times.
Also, swarm = a great number (of insects or other small creatures) moving together: lone = being alone; without company or accompaniment; solitary; unaccompanied. So which is it?


-and all this without a single AA gun going off

Euhm whaaaat? If you spawn in you should look at the sky at times and listen to your headset/speakers. Because I sure do see lots and lots of black and grey smokepuffs all around the base when a enemy is near and even hear the AA guns firing en masse.


-no sirens

As has been explained to you in this very thread...Sirens don't function in the game (yet). So how exactly is this ATAG's fault?


-no warning calls

Again as has been said..get on Teamspeak and you will get loads of warnings, or be able to warn friendlies who then can avoid said airbase or come to your aid. If 50% of pilots bothered to use teamspeak this problem would be nonexistent.


- if he was camping over an enemy airfield (not really possible in real life) he would be quickly spotted and reported to be present (and attract some nearby friendly fighters to dislodge him), none of which is the case on the ATAG server

Hmm, vulchers do attract lots of attention and don't last long at all. They get chewed up by a combination of AA and Spitfires within minutes.


-and let the odd fool who wants to try and camp over an airfield be, flak will normally take care of him soon enough (and so would other nearby friendly fighters that get vectored to him)

Would you be willing to fly a 109(or a Spit over Pihen) 5 times and record your average time till death while circling below 1000m over an active airbase? Please report here with a video and show us how many hours it takes till you run out of fuel. ;)


- rewards point whores for creating an air quake "anti new joiners" scenario.

Really so statwhores just want kills and don't care about dying repeatedly. In my experience statwhores are the ones who go into crazy diatrebes when they die by something they consider unfair.
And ATAG being "anti new joiners"? So that's why the players there happily respond to questions about vulching, CEM, navigation, gunnery, tactics and so forth. As well as ask newbies to join TS to walk them through their problems and spend hours getting them up to speed both on the server and their forums. Never knew I misunderstood the meaning of anti all my life, or maybe you are the one confused about it?


The RAF struggled with base attacks early on aswell and had to adapt.
If the players of this sim start working together, capping their airfields and using their radio (TS) the problem will become even smaller than it is allready.
Or you could add so much AA and AI fighter CAP till the mission runs at 3FPS even when you are in singleplayer.
I guess is the latter is the better solution of the two since it doesn't involve any active effort from the players and has no downsides?

[jimbop]

Good post, Warhound. I think part of the problem with the flak question is perception. If I am being vulched at Hawkinge I curse the lack of AA gunners (or their poor accuracy) and yet if I am in a 109 I will actively avoid Hawkinge because of the heavy flak which can tear you up.

Having said that, the AA could be better (i.e. more of it) but if the mission builders add more AA there are complaints about slowdowns around Hawkinge.

[macro]

Put a shout out on comms mate someone will help. Even a text msg advertising a target would get attention. "vulcher at manston" 71st will help if nearby

[Wolf_Rider]

Also, swarm = a great number (of insects or other small creatures) moving together: lone = being alone; without company or accompaniment; solitary; unaccompanied. So which is it?




Swarm behaviour, or swarming, is a collective behaviour exhibited by animals of similar size which aggregate together, perhaps milling about the same spot or perhaps moving en masse or migrating in some direction. As a term, swarming is applied particularly to insects, but can also be applied to any other animal that exhibits swarm behaviour. The term flocking is usually used to refer specifically to swarm behaviour in birds, herding to refer to swarm behaviour in quadrupeds, shoaling or schooling to refer to swarm behaviour in fish. Phytoplankton also gather in huge swarms called blooms, although these organisms are algae and are not self propelled the way animals are. By extension, the term swarm is applied also to inanimate entities which exhibit parallel behaviours, as in a robot swarm, an earthquake swarm, or a swarm of stars.

From a more abstract point of view, swarm behaviour is the collective motion of a large number of self-propelled entities.[1] From the perspective of the mathematical modeller, it is an emergent behaviour arising from simple rules that are followed by individuals and does not involve any central coordination.

-Wiki

[ATAG_Doc]

As been said already the game has matured a lot since the last patch if we're in here complaining about tactics on one server rather than patch performance. Great job development team!

[SiThSpAwN]

I think all that has come of this thread is detail that us Red guys aren't doing as good a job as the blue guys, if they are holding air over our coastal air fields then we need to coordinate better.

If people have proven that even good coordination cannot clear people over our air fields, then politely ask the ATAG to look at the defenses over these bases. As far as defenses, I dont really see that as being an issue as I dont see anyone just calmly circling over these airfields, and I for one have launched from these airfields without incident, even when FLAK is bursting about.

As for Vulching as a play style? Only time I can seriously see it as an issue is if the sides are way lopsided in favor of the vulcher, but even then, they can only cover so many airfields. When the teams are even, its a tactic to take a strategic advantage over an area, if some people play this style with the soul purpose of padding their stats, well whatever turns their cranks I suppose. Every game/sim has a short coming that people will try to take advantage of, this is one for flight sims. It wont be going away anytime soon. So adapt.

And lastly, for those that would downplay the importance of quality servers like ATAG, spend some time setting up a dedicated server, even as a test for yourself, and add to it, set up a mission to go with that, get it all working, visible online and in working order. I think then you will see there is a lot of effort into what they give us, not to mention the extras like stats and conversions for tracks to give outside views. 1C has not made hosting a stable server the easiest thing (what is it with sims and the lack of quality dedicated server software anyways), I have messed with the dedicated server and got one up and running, its not that fun, and I cant imagine keeping it going 24/7.

[Untamo]

S!

I mostly fly blue, but have now couple of times gone to red side as blue had greater numbers. About a week ago on ATAG I was flying with couple of squad mates, we had no trouble of getting airborne from Hawkinge. Sure, we got in action right away, which was all good. No need for the long trip over the channel :) .. After clearing sky from most of the harassing 109s we got a bit alt and then took the fight bit further from the coast. Scratched a couple of incoming AI bombers while at it too.

[MB_Avro_UK]

Please allow me to retort...

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/MB_Avro_UK/shot_20120809_143520.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/MB_Avro_UK/shot_20120809_143525.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/MB_Avro_UK/shot_20120809_143603.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/MB_Avro_UK/shot_20120809_143631.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/MB_Avro_UK/shot_20120809_143651.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/MB_Avro_UK/shot_20120809_143827.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/MB_Avro_UK/shot_20120809_143906.jpg


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

[SiThSpAwN]

WE NEED BARRAGE BALLOONS!!!! That will stop blue dead in their tracks... big balloons!!!

[SiThSpAwN]

Please allow me to retort...
Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

I believe Mr Avro should be awarded the Distinguished Cookie Cross.

[Meusli]

I believe Mr Avro should be awarded the Distinguished Cookie Cross.

+1

[ATAG_Doc]

please allow me to retort...

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/mb_avro_uk/shot_20120809_143520.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/mb_avro_uk/shot_20120809_143525.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/mb_avro_uk/shot_20120809_143603.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/mb_avro_uk/shot_20120809_143631.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/mb_avro_uk/shot_20120809_143651.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/mb_avro_uk/shot_20120809_143827.jpg

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/mb_avro_uk/shot_20120809_143906.jpg


best regards,
mb_avro.

brutal headshot

[ATAG_Dutch]

So what's the general consensus as regards Ginger Crunch Creams then? :confused: