Landing again hard with 4.11

[greybeard1]

After having spent months to learn landing in 4.10... last version added an endless "ground effect" which nullifies all my previous efforts! :(

Actually, while previously I had learnt cutting-off when very low and raising nose would "gently" lay down (pardon... "spawn", according to IL-2 language :) ) aircraft on runway, now same maneuver lets the plane "floating" over runway for hundreds of meters, seemingly deprived of air drag that should waste its residual kinetic energy and if I force touch-down pushing the stick, this causes a ricochet that makes aircraft jumping high, just to stall and crash down.

Has anybody developed suited landing techniques for this uptenth interpretation of reality and would be so kind to share?

Thank you,
GB

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I don't remember that we were doing something on the ground effect. :confused:

EDIT: Talking about the Fw190?

[K_Freddie]

You'll have to re-adjust your approach...

I always land with about 5-15% power, cutting power only when my wheels touch. This enables me to control/correct the descent without hoping for the best.
:)

[greybeard1]

I notice that increase for all aircrafts, Fw 190 has a particularly serious problem with energy wasting, which makes it behave more like a jet than a propeller plane and adds up to ground effect during landing: a minimal crosswind forces me to "float" for seconds yawed like a crab waiting for a touch-down that never happens, until a tiny error brings me off runway, crashing against one of the many objects "suitably" set along its sides (control towers, cars, parked planes, tanks, warehouses, hangars, etc).:lol:

I'm unable to land also with a bit of power: I must always cut-off on final, if I leave any amount of throttle that "floating" for sure brings me to overshoot runway. Maybe my descent angle is wrong? :confused: I tried approaching lower and slower, but this do not avoid ground effect and cause a stall (usually, one wing first) while floating over runway and, again, a crash. Really frustrating.:(

[IceFire]

The FW190 does tend to want to float a fair bit on landing and not loose energy. I tend to set up a banked turn prior to coming in for approach to kill as much speed as possible. I throttle it at 10% coming in, rads full open, wait for the speed to decline... once under about 220kph then I start dropping the full flaps and go nose up.

I still have trouble with the modified FW190 approach. All other planes in 4.10 are unaffected according to the "seat of my pants" landing approach. Just the FW series is a bit modified.

[Luno13]

Nothing changed in 4.11 in terms of ground effect. What you're experiencing there is what's called "Placebo" :-P

But, to be more to the point, you're likely going too fast. I tend to make an approach with ~30% power with a collision course with the runway threshold. A few meters over the ground, I pull up, and reduce power simultaneously. The plane slows and stalls onto the runway, resulting in a 3-pointer each time.

[greybeard1]

If no changes were made to ground effect, air drag of most, if not all aircrafts must have been reduced. I think it's evident and noticed from beginning (please see: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3496013/Searchpage/1/Main/350657/Words/harmonized/Search/true/4_11_I_like_it.html#Post3496013; where I mention "Significantly higher inertia").

Caspar?

[Rot Bourratif]

The secret to a good landing is: a good approach.

Give yourself enough time and distance to drop altitude and speed before the threshold.

And practice, practice, practice...

[IceFire]

If no changes were made to ground effect, air drag of most, if not all aircrafts must have been reduced. I think it's evident and noticed from beginning (please see: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/3496013/Searchpage/1/Main/350657/Words/harmonized/Search/true/4_11_I_like_it.html#Post3496013; where I mention "Significantly higher inertia").

Caspar?
I still think you're suffering from the placebo effect... it can be quite powerful.

[CWMV]

Sounds like your coming in too fast to me as well.

[K_Freddie]

Here's what you do.. (no mod track)
Note the speedo, the angle of approach for excellent runway view, the final flare before wheels touch - practice a bit on your fav plane.. it does work.

Excuse the slip - i have no rudder pedals

[greybeard1]

Placebo? Maybe.

Also when I said 4.11 had no AI significant improvement someone stated:<<Park yourself in front of an average AI and see how long it takes to get your A@@ shot off and then tell us you can't see the difference. LOL. It's excellent!!!>> ... Until TD itself affirmed that true AI improvement was introduced with 4.11.1 ... For this reason I would have liked an official comment about air drag in 4.11.

I too think I must revise my landing approach and would sincerely thank all that gave useful hints; I'll watch also track to correct my tecnique. Thank you.

Best regards,
GB

[greybeard1]

For the sake of completeness, I would post (after dozens of frustrating attempts) that eventually found my way to land safely (enough):

Descend on final at a reasonable glide slope, trim neutral (the one you get hitting Shift+Up Arrow) getting descent angle by throttle, stick neutral.
Pointing at runway start, flare when close and GRADUALLY reduce throttle, while keeping aircraft as low as possible.
Let the aeroplane stall and touch down, cut-off throttle and brake at short intervals, keeping alignment with runway.


Only the touch-down takes to me about two-thirds of runway lenght. I'm unable to point earlier since I need runway edges as reference to keep alignment during the very long "floating" time between flare and touch-down.

I posted here just in case could help someone who has problems with landing in 4.11.1.

Curiously, I did dozens of landings in RL with ULM's of five different models; Ok they're not monster with thousands of HP, but are also much lighter and smaller - it's all in proportion, so to speak - and never had such difficulties, like plane bouncing for meters higher than runway for slightly hard touch-down, neither tendency to roll upside-down cutting-off from a 10-20% throttle.

[Bouma004]

In 4.11 patch changes has been made to EMD file for BMW 801 series who equiped FW190 A and changes the flying carracteristics of this plane completly. I hope this will be fixed in comming patch. If possible i wish to be answerd by members of DT in charge with EMD upgard. Thanks for all gays i still be one of your fans.

[JtD]

It's been broken for many years. It was fixed with last patch, why break it again?

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

True AI improvement came with 4.11.
4.11.1 was only a bugfix patch.

[Treetop64]

I've found that the FW190s can be a bit of a task to slow down sufficiently for approach and landing.

In the Bf109 I'll start dropping the gear and flaps on downwind at 250 knots, then drop the flaps further on the base leg at about 210 knots. I'm maintaining between 1700 and 1800 rpm on the throttle throughout (kommandogerat always stays on, I never touch the prop or mix settings individually in German machines so equipped). On final, flare at 200knots and reduce power, and touch down at around 150 knots. I do this consistently, and so long as there is no damage, landings are never a problem in the 109.

In the Focke Wolf however, I must pull all the way back on the power during the landing pattern, even with everything down fully, and mentally stay much further ahead of the aircraft. Landing is more difficult in the FW-190 since you really cant have any power applied while in the pattern if you want to be slow enough to land safely without forcing it, but with practice and consistency it can be done routinely.