Bomber pilots!one step forward!

[David198502]

Air Combat Group is thinking about creating a new squadron for LW Bomberpilots.

i dont know how many pilots here prefer to fly Bombers, but if you exist, then dont hesitate and raise your voice!
it would be the oportunity to fly to targets in formation, while you would get fighter cover from JG26....

[chantaje]

i fly with a friend bomber sorties often, time difference would be an issue but we will try to join you if we see you in atag on sundays. S!
you use the atag ts?

[5./JG27.Farber]

Wow that is brave. We tried to get Bf110 squadron going along side our Bf109 squadron. Its so hard to get specialised pilots.

Good luck,

S!

[Skoshi Tiger]

Wish you all the best in your undertaking! Hopefully the sight fix mentioned in the soon-to-be-released (TM) patch will smooth out the path for LW Bomber Pilots.

One of the things that will indicate that COD has started to reach it's potential will be when special Interest Groups like yours can seamlessly slot into the online servers and do your thing.

Cheers!

[David198502]

i fly with a friend bomber sorties often, time difference would be an issue but we will try to join you if we see you in atag on sundays. S!
you use the atag ts?

we operate our own ts server:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=31223

[David198502]

Wow that is brave. We tried to get Bf110 squadron going along side our Bf109 squadron. Its so hard to get specialised pilots.

Good luck,

S!

yeah i also think that its certainly really hard to find such pilots, but i know they exist....ive seen them on the servers...
ACG consists of four squads: No.501, No.401,No.64 and JG26
with this constilation, i think its a win win situation for everyone, the RAF pilots,JG26 and of course the bomberpilots who would join us.
We would provide fighter cover every time, while our RAF guys certainly would have an eye on us.the bombers could fly there mission, and rely on us.
such missions would just be awesome...we already like to give fighter cover for the "lifeless" AI bombers, but it would be a different level if you knew that the bombers were flown by humans.
besides, such a formation would be a magneto to all the single fighter pilots on the servers as well i think

[adonys]

stuka's dive attack is completly functional at this time (actually, it was right from the beginnig).

I'm doing one or two dive bombing flights almost each time I'm joining the ATAG server, thing is, it is hard to get someone flying a bombing formation raid with you, and even harder to get an escort, even if I'm asking almost each time before doing it.

so, unfortunately, lone stuka stealth bombing runs are the only viable option atm.

[David198502]

well, if we find at least 1 or 2 dedicated Bomberpilots, they could then really count on the Abeville Boys to escort them.thats the idea behind creating a 5th squad in ACG, to give bomberpilots the chance to fly in formation escorted by experienced 109 pilots on a regular basis.

as soon as we have those 1 or 2 pilots, we would then create a own KG under ACG.which would hopefully attract more bomberpilots.

[julien673]

Very good idea, i remember when i was hosting game in hypperlobby. One time a menage to get 4 tb3 in formation in kuban map. I think all the fighter was rushing on us ( limited icon + external view.... whit no cockpit ) We menage to go to the target all 4, on low level attack whit flak gun... but some one forget to put some time in the bomb set... we all explode :rolleyes: ... its was like 5 year ago, And its was a very good time for me :).

[melasuda]

Hi, on my squadron we are 5 or 6 bomber pilot.

We pilot bf110, ju87, ju88, he111 and sometimes BR.20.
Our main problem is language, no speak english good.
But for my part, ready for whatever.

Sorry i use google traslate.

[David198502]

Hi, on my squadron we are 5 or 6 bomber pilot.

We pilot bf110, ju87, ju88, he111 and sometimes BR.20.
Our main problem is language, no speak english good.
But for my part, ready for whatever.

Sorry i use google traslate.

5 or 6 bomber pilots ready????great!
well, where are you from??if you at least speak a little english, then its already enough!

[melasuda]

Spain.

And my english is bad bery bad.

I do not understand when the people speak English, but if they use the chat understand 50%:(

[David198502]

well, we can at least try and fly together a couple of sorties!
does anybody of your pilots speak a little better english?

my steamname: JG26_DavidRed

you can add me as a friend!

[robtek]

In german bombers the language should be german! :D :D :D

[macro]

I can fly a 110 and (to lesser extent) 87 if you see me on comms gimme a shout i'll join in

[Allons!]

We could provide up to 6 active flying Bf110 right now as ZG26. With 12x SC500 and some 20mm Sprengbrand we can turn any airfield into a nice freshly ploughed field ready for seeding.

Most of us speak german & more or less fair english. At this time we dont have dedicated levelbombing pilots but i´d say 3-4 of us would volunteer for a Ju-88 group if we could do some training. Our normal training day is thursday 20:00 Berlin time. So if some squad would like to have a joint task, dont hesitate to register & write in our forum.

Greetz, Allons!

[Chromius]

I think there are more bomber pilots than people realize. The issue since clod's release has been the bomber issues more so with the german ju-88 and he-111 than the Blenheim. There were some large organized bomber squadrons in Il-2 and dedicated bomber types are probably still there. I only came over to clod given the bf-110 could be used for ground pounding with escort.

After reading the threads on the bomber bugs being brought to the devs attention we may actually get better / correctly working bombers soon I would hope, and that in turn will bring more bomber pilots over from IL-2 who have most likely shelved clod for now. Though after reading up on the work arounds for accurate bombing it does seem possible in its current state.

I personally have no turn and burn fighter skills even with track ir. (Hence in real life not all pilots are the same.) I have always enjoyed bombers/navigation and ground pounding/close air support and I am decent at BnZ. I also fly DCS KA-50 and A-10 CAS/SEAD but was not really into Falcon 4. Heck B17 II The Mighty 8th is still one of my favorites. I even fly the FSX A2A B17 on historical bomb runs for fun.

Now that I have a decent connection again and the new patch due out I will give the Bf-110 another roll, but alas when my wingman peels off for a furball with some spitfires I know MY lifespan is reduced to mere seconds, lol.

My fingers are stuck in the crossed postition waiting for correctly working bombers

[David198502]

seems that you are experienced with bombers!sounds good....
interested in joining a KG squad?

[Chromius]

David_Red

I was just adding my 2 cents on the lack of dedicated bomber pilots. I am still holding out for more accurately modeled / working bombers as per Blackdog_KT and the ATAG guys who are clarifying all the bomber bugs and are bringing them to the devs attention.

I am currently in 9.ZG26 with 5.JG27 and have just taken a LOA for moving (again) and restoring my connection. Never mind I was frustrated (coffee may add to it) with the CTD with twins when flying in formation online. But thank you for the offer.

[David198502]

:)
no problem!

[Redroach]

I favor bombing...to the point of wanting to fly bombers exclusively. However, right now, I also fly RAF almost exclusively, though there is only one, somewhat sucky bomber (The blen :D ). Maybe I should change my mind and switch to the dark (LW) side and team up with you...

[Tavingon]

Bring me the fairey battle and I'll play sir!

[ATAG_Doc]

I favor bombing...to the point of wanting to fly bombers exclusively. However, right now, I also fly RAF almost exclusively, though there is only one, somewhat sucky bomber (The blen :D ). Maybe I should change my mind and switch to the dark (LW) side and team up with you...


Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make history.

[David198502]

I favor bombing...to the point of wanting to fly bombers exclusively. However, right now, I also fly RAF almost exclusively, though there is only one, somewhat sucky bomber (The blen :D ). Maybe I should change my mind and switch to the dark (LW) side and team up with you...

we dont want to force people to fly certain types of planes....but you could at least consider to "change" your mind and fly the LW bombers....

[David198502]

btw,...did anybody already try out the bombers with the new patch yet?

[melasuda]

Hi, today using new beta pach, i destroy one target whit JU88 at 3000M.

The sight work bery good:grin::grin:

[ACE-OF-ACES]

just saw ATAG_something and Warhoud? announce that the bomb sites are working perfecly now..

[Blackdog_kt]

If you want to test the bombsights, bomb from at least 4000-5000 meters of altitude. The problem was that the bombsight was missing the high altitude adjustment for bomb trajectories, so if you bomb from low altitudes you are not really testing much ;)

I did a very quick and dirty run: start the FMB, place two waypoints, Ju88 airstart with a full bomb load.

I am pleased to say that even though i was being very very sloppy (i was in a hurry), i still managed to get half my bombs within the perimeter of Manston.

I will do more testing tomorrow. I think that in a normal situation (well trimmed aircraft, time for the autopilot to settle, etc, instead of airstart and rushing to set engines, bombsight and bomb release settings in half a minute like i did in my test) it will be possible to accurately bomb from 5000 meters or more. Especially if you have wingmen with you to saturate the target.

[David198502]

just saw ATAG_something and Warhoud? announce that the bomb sites are working perfecly now..

perfect!so now Bomberchaps, jump on board and lets form up a new squad under ACG.

[chantaje]

If you want to test the bombsights, bomb from at least 4000-5000 meters of altitude. The problem was that the bombsight was missing the high altitude adjustment for bomb trajectories, so if you bomb from low altitudes you are not really testing much ;)

I did a very quick and dirty run: start the FMB, place two waypoints, Ju88 airstart with a full bomb load.

I am pleased to say that even though i was being very very sloppy (i was in a hurry), i still managed to get half my bombs within the perimeter of Manston.

I will do more testing tomorrow. I think that in a normal situation (well trimmed aircraft, time for the autopilot to settle, etc, instead of airstart and rushing to set engines, bombsight and bomb release settings in half a minute like i did in my test) it will be possible to accurately bomb from 5000 meters or more. Especially if you have wingmen with you to saturate the target.
in the last version i used IAS as input in the bombsight to hit the target, it appear that now to hit it i need to input the TAS, anyone else is experiencing this??
sorry for the ot

[SG1_Lud]

We did make several runs yesterday at different altitudes in the He-111 H-2 and everything is working as intended so far.

We observed that the bombs fall and exploded in the correct order, the spacing was also correct, that makes me believe that not only the sight, but all the code has been completely revised.

Tests done up to 3.500 m so far, with one human in pilot's seat and another in the bombardier. Smooth as silk.

This patch is a milestone in COD's development. :cool:




David, we have in our squad a wing of dedicated pilot for bombers, if not I would gladly join you. BTW, how about some joint ops between you ad us guys?

S!

[Blackdog_kt]

Yes, it probably needs you to input TAS now as a starting value, i think it was ATAG_Keller who confirmed this in another post. And i say starting value because in reality, what matters in bombing is GS (ground speed, or how fast your are actually going compared to the ground).


I usually do it the old fashioned way a la IL2: just set the altitude, start from the IAS or TAS value and engage automation. Since your actual ground speed is higher than IAS and closer to TAS (but not always equal, eg, it could be lower than TAS in case of a headwind), you will see that the sight is drifting above/below the target (it can't compensate because it "thinks" the plane is going slower/faster than it really is)

So, i simply increase/decrease bombsight speed in small steps until the crosshairs stops drifting, recenter it on the target and wait. Essentially you are using the sight's tracking mechanism to "discover" you ground speed ;)

[David198502]

We did make several runs yesterday at different altitudes in the He-111 H-2 and everything is working as intended so far.

We observed that the bombs fall and exploded in the correct order, the spacing was also correct, that makes me believe that not only the sight, but all the code has been completely revised.

Tests done up to 3.500 m so far, with one human in pilot's seat and another in the bombardier. Smooth as silk.

This patch is a milestone in COD's development. :cool:





David, we have in our squad a wing of dedicated pilot for bombers, if not I would gladly join you. BTW, how about some joint ops between you ad us guys?

S!

sounds excellent!

[Allons!]

[OT] BTW, how about some joint ops between you ad us guys? S!

Hi Lud, did any Staffel test if formations work fps-wise?

And i would recomend a Geschwader-day on ATAG.. :grin:

[David198502]

no need to fly on atag exclusively....we now gave 71st squad our missions to run on their server which is now called something like 71st-ACG combined server....historical missions with a nice historical map template,good ai,...certainly an alternative to atag.

[ATAG_Keller]

He-111 bombsight seems to be working well with 8 x SC 250kg bombs, more testing required with the 50kg bombs.

I have done 4 bomb runs with the 250's at varying altitudes (4200 - 5500m) and the bombsight was right on target, the one run I did with the 50kg bombs from 4500m fell well short of the target.

[Blackdog_kt]

He-111 bombsight seems to be working well with 8 x SC 250kg bombs, more testing required with the 50kg bombs.

I have done 4 bomb runs with the 250's at varying altitudes (4200 - 5500m) and the bombsight was right on target, the one run I did with the 50kg bombs from 4500m fell well short of the target.

See here for a possible explanation: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33649

[ATAG_Keller]

See here for a possible explanation: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=33649

Yeah, I saw that Blackdog; that could quite possibly be it.

If that were the case it real life, how was the bombsight programmed to know what bombs were on board?


Another thing I should mention is that I don't feel that the damage from the bombs is high enough. A 250kg bomb should do much more damage than it currently does.

[Blackdog_kt]

The trajectory adjustment was manual in the real bombsight. Ours is automatic to simplify things a bit, otherwise we'd have to enter data from tables according to airspeed, altitude and bomb type.

The advantage of how it's done in the sim is that it's simpler. The advantage of the real bombsights is that an experienced bombardier could probably enter an in-between value to account for different types of bombs on board.

I think the best way to account for this in the sim is to experiment, accept that that we should be going after area targets (factories, airfields, etc, no more hitting a handful of vehicles from 3km) and get a couple of wingmen. The SC 50s don't miss by much, they just drop a couple of clicks down from where the bombsight aims, so it's easy to account for it.

I don't know what happens if you select a bombload with one bomb type only though. Maybe loading only SC50s uses the trajectory adjustment more suitable to them, but i haven't tested this yet.

[SG1_Lud]

Hi Lud, did any Staffel test if formations work fps-wise?

And i would recomend a Geschwader-day on ATAG.. :grin:

@Allons, sorry I missed your post. Yes no problems with fps flying in formation. We are doing more tests these days and will report back

@David, great I will contact you (through sandokito).

@Blackdog: yes your method is good and works.

Just to have another in your bag of tricks, if you plan to use precalculated TAS, I confirmed that if you calculate TAS taking OAT (outside air temperature into account) into account, the results are perfect.

Here you are a good resource for doing the maths:
http://www.luizmonteiro.com/Altimetry.aspx#TrueAirspeed

So in your bombing run, switch to your pilot position, and check the OAT in your upper left panel, input that value and correct the TAS with the deviation from the standard atmosphere.

Now, the wind. As we know, we have to correct the TAS with the front component of the Wind speed to obtain GS.

But another thing I noticed in my test ( and I believe that the devs modelled :cool:), is that because the form factor of the bombs and the aircraft are completely different, and the trajectory of the bomb makes it face the wind in the worst aerodynamic manner possible, the effect of the wind on the bombs can not be estimated as easy as using GS as input. If you use GS the bombs will fall short.

Unless the devs model a drift compensation, it needs to be tabulated. You have to lower it a little to compensate that effect, in my tests 15 km/h for 10 m/s and 20 km/h for 20 m/s wind, but take that values as a start point as I did not have the time to measure them precisely.

Bear in my mind that this was for a mission with 250 kg bombs, a constant flow of wind from surface to 10 km, and no gusts and no changes of wind directions. If you program a mission with all these possible features, the thing gets more and more complicated.

I agree with Keller that IMO the 250 kg bombs should do more damage- Did not test the 50 kg bombs yet, but I think as Blackdog that you have to compensate manually and build tables from experimentation.

Very happy with the sim now. :)

[David198502]

i just wanted to say, thx ZG26 for your cooperation with JG26&ACG.

its great fun to fly with you guys and cover you.

to all other bomber pilots, we are still searching for bombers to escort.
we now have a regular event every week, where ACG(No.501,No64,JG26) and ZG26 fly with/against each other on our 71st-ACG combined server.
it alternates every week between Wednesday and Thursday.
Next event is Thursday 7pm GMT.

All are welcome, fighterpilots as well on both sides.

[Allons!]

i just wanted to say, thx ZG26 for your cooperation with JG26&ACG. Its great fun to fly with you guys and cover you.

Hi David, same here. Would love to have a Ju88 horibombing component as well. Looking forward to more pilots on the red side and a better netcode.... :grin:

Best, Allons!