The curse of the trees

[III/JG53_Don]

Hey guys
Since the last beta I've had increasing problems with stutters ingame. The big problem is that I get pretty acceptable avg fps but on low level an unacceptable proportion of stutters allthough the fps remain on a decent level still.
Ive done some testing this morning to get rid of the stutters somehow but I was only partially successful.
I repaired the Net Framework 4 thorugh the control panel and reinstalled DirectX in the CoD Dx Folder.
Then I've set all the graphic options to mimimum and checked the fps with Black Death and some Quick missions. Got at about 160fps avg on Black Death and not a single stutter.
Subsequently I increased the detail level of the game step by step (with deleting the cache and shader files after every step) to identify the major cause of my stutters.... and it obviously seems to be the trees.
With graphics on full max (4x AA, VSync ON, SSOA OFF) but with trees OFF, I get an avg fps of 45 in BlackDeath and at about the same amount in every quickmission I tested.... nearly without stutters. I can fly low level with grass/roads/shadows ON and over bigger cities with building details to max without a major fps loss or annoying stutters. Of course there are some fps hickups now and then but they decreased at about 85% (and youve got to have in mind that my GPU isnt top-notch)

As soon as I switch trees on (even on trees to low) the stutters are back and they are getting worse the higher I switch the tree details.

In this state of the game where the trees hardly have any effect on the gameplay, this is the way for me to experience a stutter-free CloD. Somehow I am happy with the result as I could find out the cause of my stutters. Unfortunately missing trees are killing the immersion a lot. They have to work on the trees (including the really needed collision detection!)

Has anyone some tips to decrease stuttering more? Anyone with the same experience?

[SiThSpAwN]

It seems inconsistent, that is the problems with trees, personally they cause no stutters, but they seem to revert back to the redraw "bubble" that everyone has stated is an issue, I can get them to go back but as I said they dont always seem to stay that way.

I know you dont want to hear it, but I think we are going to need to wait for the next beta patch to see if they can address the tree issues.

And I know what you mean about turning them off, you really hate to...

[skouras]

the curse of the trees
buhahahahahahahahahahahahahah

nice..

[Querer]

Seems to be a problem with trees over there in Russia. F***ed up in every game. Same with DCS Series, trees are there but AI AA and everything can see and fire through. Obviously the russians do not now how to program solid trees without huge performance hits in games ;-)
BTW: I do not have any stutters related to the trees for the moment, but I still did not install any beta patch (Black Death FPS: MIN: 0 AVG: 55 MAX: 156, 1680x1050, all maxed out, 2xAA activated, no vsync, no ssao, no epileptic filter)

[SG1_Lud]

Hey guys
Since the last beta I've had increasing problems with stutters ingame. The big problem is that I get pretty acceptable avg fps but on low level an unacceptable proportion of stutters allthough the fps remain on a decent level still.
Ive done some testing this morning to get rid of the stutters somehow but I was only partially successful.
I repaired the Net Framework 4 thorugh the control panel and reinstalled DirectX in the CoD Dx Folder.
Then I've set all the graphic options to mimimum and checked the fps with Black Death and some Quick missions. Got at about 160fps avg on Black Death and not a single stutter.
Subsequently I increased the detail level of the game step by step (with deleting the cache and shader files after every step) to identify the major cause of my stutters.... and it obviously seems to be the trees.
With graphics on full max (4x AA, VSync ON, SSOA OFF) but with trees OFF, I get an avg fps of 45 in BlackDeath and at about the same amount in every quickmission I tested.... nearly without stutters. I can fly low level with grass/roads/shadows ON and over bigger cities with building details to max without a major fps loss or annoying stutters. Of course there are some fps hickups now and then but they decreased at about 85% (and youve got to have in mind that my GPU isnt top-notch)

As soon as I switch trees on (even on trees to low) the stutters are back and they are getting worse the higher I switch the tree details.

In this state of the game where the trees hardly have any effect on the gameplay, this is the way for me to experience a stutter-free CloD. Somehow I am happy with the result as I could find out the cause of my stutters. Unfortunately missing trees are killing the immersion a lot. They have to work on the trees (including the really needed collision detection!)

Has anyone some tips to decrease stuttering more? Anyone with the same experience?


Same experience here.

ASUS p6T deluxe v2
6 Gb DDR3 RAM 6-7-6-18 1600 Mhz
i7 940 @3,80Ghz
SSD for COD and W7 64 bits
ATI 7970 3gb VRAM
Monitor HP ZR24W

[III/JG53_Don]

Its just so depressing to turn them off in total. Without them the landscape looks really really empty :D Anyway since they are bugged since the last beta anyway (sometimes they are there, sometimes they only appear in close distance to your plane, you know what i mean) I can bear this a little more easy ;) at least for the time of this beta.
I just hope that there is a solution for the tree performance (and collision) somewhere/somehow/sometime soon :-)

I mean I wouldnt mind turning some other details down a little bit to get the trees back in the game, but it doesn't really help. They are THE major slowdown in terms of stutters.... as I said in terms of fps I am quite satisfied :)

If you look at SG1_Luds and my specs it is obvious that this isn't hardware related... i thought at first that this could be related to my GPU (Ati 6870 1Gb)but if you look at Luds beast of a GPU (Ati 7970 3gb VRam) it seems clear that its a problem of optimizing.... or the trees are just sh*t in general :D

[senseispcc]

If the problems with the tree that are not present at a distand is not a problem for you so be it but for me it is a big one and I like to fly low over a land so realistic possible. Why are there tree in one region and not in all the other around this one?

[SiThSpAwN]

If the problems with the tree that are not present at a distand is not a problem for you so be it but for me it is a big one and I like to fly low over a land so realistic possible. Why are there tree in one region and not in all the other around this one?


Well as this is a beta patch, and this has been brought up many times we can hope they will put this on their list of things to fix (preferably high up on that list). I think OP was hoping someone had some tips on improving his results. I dont think anyone said it wasnt a problem for them, on that same note, it doesnt stop me from getting shot down by blue either :)

[pencon]

I think 1.06 was the best patch and plan on going back to it . This suddenly trees popping up in front of the plane thing really kills the whole experience .

[SiThSpAwN]

I think 1.06 was the best patch and plan on going back to it .

Kinda defeats the purpose of installing a beta patch in the first place doesnt it? :)

[TonyD]

Kinda defeats the purpose of installing a beta patch in the first place doesnt it? :)

True, but I sympathise with the sentiment. I’ve had to live with the ‘blue lines’ issue since the official update, which has now thankfully been corrected. To have this replaced with the current tree error has had me considering doing the same, as the blue lines seem to be less of an immersion-killer (although admittedly they had been greatly reduced in the last beta).

I’m also sure that they are well aware of the issue, as there have been just as many posts on sukhoi.ru as here regarding it.

[SiThSpAwN]

I am not downplaying the issue at all, I totally agree, although I have had luck with some of the fixes suggested, well limited luck, but my point is that if you are installing a beta patch you should assume its to find problems and not end up with a perfectly running game... that should be expected from the official patch when its ready, rolling back to an earlier patch doesnt help us move forward, of course if you aren't interested in testing and submitting issues, well then carry on :)

[pencon]

Kinda defeats the purpose of installing a beta patch in the first place doesnt it? :) Well once they get their pop up trees fixed I'll update again . I just fly offline anyway .I'm not all that tech savy to send in a report .I'm sure there's plenty of Die hards on here that will send in reports .

[Snake9]

Its just so depressing to turn them off in total. Without them the landscape looks really really empty :D Anyway since they are bugged since the last beta anyway (sometimes they are there, sometimes they only appear in close distance to your plane, you know what i mean) I can bear this a little more easy ;) at least for the time of this beta.
I just hope that there is a solution for the tree performance (and collision) somewhere/somehow/sometime soon :-)

I mean I wouldnt mind turning some other details down a little bit to get the trees back in the game, but it doesn't really help. They are THE major slowdown in terms of stutters.... as I said in terms of fps I am quite satisfied :)

If you look at SG1_Luds and my specs it is obvious that this isn't hardware related... i thought at first that this could be related to my GPU (Ati 6870 1Gb)but if you look at Luds beast of a GPU (Ati 7970 3gb VRam) it seems clear that its a problem of optimizing.... or the trees are just sh*t in general :D

I have the same gx card (bl. ex. 6870) and game is unplayable due to sutters in fullscreen mode. BUT. . . if I run the game in Pseudo mode almost all stutters are gone even with trees on high. Don't know if it's true or not but I thought I read that ATI cards like pseudo mode better. One thing I do know is it works much, much, much better on my card in pseudo mode. Everything maxed out, but no grass puts me between 30 and 50 fps, much the same pc as yours. If you havn't tried it, do so and good luck.

[III/JG53_Don]

I have the same gx card (bl. ex. 6870) and game is unplayable due to sutters in fullscreen mode. BUT. . . if I run the game in Pseudo mode almost all stutters are gone even with trees on high. Don't know if it's true or not but I thought I read that ATI cards like pseudo mode better. One thing I do know is it works much, much, much better on my card in pseudo mode. Everything maxed out, but no grass puts me between 30 and 50 fps, much the same pc as yours. If you havn't tried it, do so and good luck.

You've got to be kidding me... that does it! WOW! Performance tip of the month at least :-)
Thank you very much dude, setting pseudo mode was the only thing I didnt try during these tests!
Right now its kinda hard to tell if this works for me 100% because I cant get the trees working on full level (I mean that they appear in high distance). Right now I only see the trees in direct distance but in fullmode I got stutters before even with this few trees around the plane. At least the BlackDeath track runs with all trees around the landscape and even on this I get only accasional stutters which are totally accepatable for me regarding the state of the game, my relatively poor GPU and that I had graphics on absolute MAX (avg 38fps with Vsynch ON).
Hope I can get the trees working in high distance at least for one or two missions to doublecheck this observation.

Well Snake9 thanks again for your tip! This should be spread around! Huge Improvement!
SG1_Lud you should try this as well... maybe its the problem of all ATI cards... I dunno.

[SG1_Lud]

Thanks for the tips III/JG53_Don and Snake 9, I will try pseudo mode, it is also the only thing I did not try.

But what I tried, and with success was the following:

* Put everything on lowest settings, and made 3 tests in different scenerys. One of them maneouvering just over the rooftops in London, another one in Le Havre and finally a mission with a lot of effects (tracers, smokes, clouds). Of course the FPS were 60 max, 60 avg, and 60 min (with vsync on), as expected.

* Then I started to increase graphical settings, one at a time. Check again, if FPS results were (60max, 60 avg, 60 min), then move on to increase another step the graphical settings, and so on. The test, to be considered succesful, had to yield a constant 60,60,60 with 1-2 FPS variation tolerance, for at least 5 minutes in every scenery.

* Following this schema, I was able to max out everything, until I enabled the shades. Shades caused inmediate stutters over cities, woods etc. Not only by looking at the counters, the naked eye can perceive, looking outside the plane, a continuous microstuttering, very different of the fluid and smooth flight when shades are off.

* Interestingly enough, the trees could be maxed out if the shades were off and keep the 60,60,60. The trees looked ugly, but they all were there and not causing stutters. I always had thought that the trees were the cause of stutters, but maybe it is not the trees the culprit, but the shades of the trees...

* As one cannot (yet) disable selectively cabin shades and the terrain shades, I went to sea with shades on and everything maxed out, and again I got 60,60,60. So I don't think that the cabin shades are causing problems, but the shades of the terrain, buildings, trees etc.


I do not mean that everyone can max out everthing simply by removing the shades, it needs a powerful system like mine; I simply used a method to try to find what was causing that a system like that could still have problems maintaining a fluid framerate. And voila, the tests pointed to the shades. It works online and offline, I miss the beauty of the shades, but I have a great performance in combat.

I will try the pseudo mode and report back.

S!

ASUS p6T deluxe v2
6 Gb DDR3 RAM 6-7-6-18 1600 Mhz
i7 940 @3,80Ghz
SSD for COD and W7 64 bits
ATI 7970 3gb VRAM
Monitor HP ZR24W

[III/JG53_Don]

Interesting observation :) I try that out... maybe in combination with the pseudo mode its possible to smooth the few remaining stutters out quite perfectly

[SG1_Lud]

Here you are the rest of my settings for your information:

ATi drivers 12.7 beta
CCC:
AA-> use app settings
Morphological filtering-> off
Anisotropic filtering-> use app settings
Tessellation: AMD Optimized
Catalyst AI: Quality and Enable Surface Optimization OFF
Wait for vertical refresh: ON unless app specifies
OpenGL settings: Triple buffering OFF

COD:
Res: 1920x1200
Full Screen: ON
Model detail: High
Building details: Very High
Land Detail: High
Forest: Very High
Visual Effects: High
Texture Quality: Original
Antialiasing: OFF
Anti ep: off
SSAO: 0f
VSYNC : ON
Damage decals: High
Buildings amount: Unlimited
Land Shading: Low
Grass: ON
Shadows: OFF
Roads: ON

And finally, for antialasing and overall color tweaking I use:
FXAA PPI v37 for DX-10

S!

[jamesdietz]

Checked your suggestion with" Fraps" doing same simple mission with one aircraft over & over, with different" tree settings" & I have to say you are absolutely right.High settings kill FPS down low & Very low to None give me about 4-5 extra FPS( about 17-19,) near the ground,still not great but making combat at low altitudes not so frustrating with my rig. Sad in that it takes away a great deal of immersion tho.
Thanks for your post!
( Once they get this patched to the best of their abilities there will be a new graphics card in my future , but until they do I'll have to wait!)