Gunsight reticle in CloD

[Robo.]

There is one thing I can't get my head around in CloD - the gunsight reticle visible at all times (depending on the environment), even if the bulb is switched off. I know this has been discussed before, I thought it was a definitive bug, but as I raised the issue at the bugtracker:

http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/201

...there is quite a few votes against. I still believe that there should be nothing reflecting on the glass when the thing is switched off, I had a good look at few gunsights and I never noticed anything like we have ingame. Perhaps someone with more insight might be able to shed some light :o on this please.

[Redroach]

...why not? I think the "reticle source" can very well be reflected up through the sight. It's not like the actual plate containing the reticle is covered or something while switched off, is it?

[Robo.]

...why not? I think the "reticle source" can very well be reflected up through the sight. It's not like the actual plate containing the reticle is covered or something while switched off, is it?

Have you seen anything like that in real life? I have not hence the question.

[Outlaw]

Have you seen anything like that in real life? I have not hence the question.

Yes, I have. The stock reflector sight on my FN P90S carbine is unpowered. It simply collects ambient light. So if ambient light can reach the right spot I think it's not unreasonable to see a dim aiming cue.

--Outlaw.

[David198502]

There is one thing I can't get my head around in CloD - the gunsight reticle visible at all times (depending on the environment), even if the bulb is switched off. I know this has been discussed before, I thought it was a definitive bug, but as I raised the issue at the bugtracker:

http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/201

...there is quite a few votes against. I still believe that there should be nothing reflecting on the glass when the thing is switched off, I had a good look at few gunsights and I never noticed anything like we have ingame. Perhaps someone with more insight might be able to shed some light :o on this please.

never thought about this before,...interesting and definitely sounds strange...
but what i have a problem with, is the current crosshair when the light bulb is on....it was fine a few patches ago, but then this was changed with a patch about a year ago, and now its hardly visible at all.

[GOA_Potenz]

Yes i remember some users complaining, can't remember if it was here or over sukhoi.ru, that the original sight effect was quite hard to aim with and ask for the laser shapes gunsight like in 46, decision that i don't share the original reflec sight effect was exelent, and with the bulb off the effect should be less noticeable as now there's quite no difference between Off-On modes.

[Redroach]

Have you seen anything like that in real life? I have not hence the question.

yes, I have. And I've just decided to no longer bother with individuals like you.

[JG52Krupi]

yes, I have. And I've just decided to no longer bother with individuals like you.

What an earth is happening to this forum :|

[David198502]

yes, I have. And I've just decided to no longer bother with individuals like you.

whats going on with you mate???what has robo done to upset you??

[Talbot]

...why not? I think the "reticle source" can very well be reflected up through the sight. It's not like the actual plate containing the reticle is covered or something while switched off, is it?

Impossible.

[5./JG27.Farber]

In certain lighting conditions I am sure you would see a faint reflection (although this is the wrong term as its actually the blocking of reflected light).


Some light enters, so some light must leave! Unless its a black hole?!
I leave it to you Robo to prove otherwise. ;)

[Ze-Jamz]

yes, I have. And I've just decided to no longer bother with individuals like you.

Another idiot

[IvanK]

I have flown four aircraft types with either Gunsights and or HUDS. In all of these aircraft with the Gunsight/HUD off no symbology or even feint evidence of them on the combining glass is present. IMO it shouldnt be there in CLOD either.

[Redroach]

In this thread, like in the other one about coolant leaks, all those people which caused so much trouble in the past are coming together again...
If there's a bug, it needs to be fixed, sure.
But in the past, 1C always has listened to people which cry loudest, "over-fixed" things or fixed things which weren't broken in the first place (look up Merlin engines cutting out on negative g...) and introduced a host of new bugs on the way.
That's why I won't bother with that anymore, especially those using the argument "have you sat in a real spitfire" etc, blah... if we can believe 1C's statements, there are people there who have, so at least cockpit optics should be reviewed. People cry big time, 1C wants to please them and the rest has to sort it out, while those which went postal, are again spending their time on the forums, ranting about the german pilot model having a moustache which "is unusual for the timeframe" or something...

P.S.: Even if there is a reticle issue, which I don't believe for a moment, it would be a very, VERY low-priority issue...

[FS~Phat]

Keep the agro out of the discussion please!

[Robo.]

In this thread, like in the other one about coolant leaks, all those people which caused so much trouble in the past are coming together again...
If there's a bug, it needs to be fixed, sure.

Redroach I honestly don't know what is bothering you but it was not my intention to upset you or to cause trouble. I never posted anything about 'coolant leaks' either. My reply was not ment in an offensive way, I am simply interested in opinions of people who have RL experience with gyroscopic gunsights.

I am not crying at all, I am just curious. I see there is something I don't understand with my limited knowledge, I raised the issue and seen many people disagreed (there is no problem at all with that), but they were too busy to explain why (also no problem) and I'd simply like to know what they know.

That's why I won't bother with that anymore, especially those using the argument "have you sat in a real spitfire" etc, blah... if we can believe 1C's statements, there are people there who have, so at least cockpit optics should be reviewed. People cry big time, 1C wants to please them and the rest has to sort it out, while those which went postal, are again spending their time on the forums, ranting about the german pilot model having a moustache which "is unusual for the timeframe" or something...

Feel free not to bother, I understand your point about the priorities. All you wrote was your opinion (I think... can be). which I appreciate, but with all due respect you didn't answer my question at all. I know there is lots of people here with experience and access to this kind of equipment and I'd like to hear what they think. I'll be glad to be proven wrong in my assumtion as long I learn something.

P.S.: Even if there is a reticle issue, which I don't believe for a moment, it would be a very, VERY low-priority issue...

I agree, there is no question about it. I actually started the issue at 'low' priority myself. But I believe that's a genuine bug and it makes no sense at all so why not raise it?

As for the actual topic - none of the gunsights I've seen in RL did this kind of reflection as the reticle plate is enclosed deep inside of the gunsight body (that is for both ReVi and Mk.I gunsight) and unless there is strong source of light coming from the bottom, there is nothing to reflect. It seems very unrealistic and as I see some people agree.

[Redroach]

After a quick Google search:
http://markonepartners.co.uk/sites/default/files/Gunsight%20004-C.jpg

Not the correct Gunsight, but a reflector one - with some Goodwill, you can make out a blue-ish line in the middle (as well as several other things...)

So it may be there or maybe it won't - still, very minor.

[Robo.]

After a quick Google search:
http://markonepartners.co.uk/sites/default/files/Gunsight%20004-C.jpg

Not the correct Gunsight, but a reflector one - with some Goodwill, you can make out a blue-ish line in the middle (as well as several other things...)

So it may be there or maybe it won't - still, very minor.

That is the collimator lens reflection from the camera flash. I guess the lens might be reflecting from the glass surface but a faint crosshair, I've never seen.

[310_cibule]

Robo ;) It's almost like some SVK "dispute" :-P

[Robo.]

In certain lighting conditions I am sure you would see a faint reflection (although this is the wrong term as its actually the blocking of reflected light).

In certain lighting conditions like a bulb switched on underneath the plate? Or a torch from the top? Perhaps. I just rang my friend up and made a strange request - it is very sunny at the moment, mid day:

- Yo mate you're alright? Please take your German ReVi (12c), take your L-29 (MiG-15) and MiG-21 gunsights outside and have a look if you can see any reticle reflection on the glass.

- What?

- Take them outside in the sun, wiggle with them, turn them upside down and look at the glass if any light reflects on the reflector glass

- Rob you're crazy, the thing is off. There is nothing visible on the glass unless you switch it on. That's how they invented it you know... I am not taking my stuff outside just because you're nuts. You need some bloody light to get that thing work you know that. That's why there is a bulb inside, see...

- Alright just take the ReVi then

- I am not taking that outside, neighbours will look at me funny.

- Just put in in a Tesco bag, take the MiG-15 then.

- Rob there is no light in there I am standing by the window you fool.

- No no, go outside and walk, move it along like you're turning circles in the aircrfaft, then make a Spilit s or something. Pleeeeeeeease. And while you're at it take a torch with you. When you see the cross say TATATATATATA.

- sigh

- I'll ring you back in 20 minutes alright. I need to know if you can see anything on the gunsight glass.

- I can tell you now that you bloody can't. (he explained to me how to insert a filter in there and how there is no chance of any light entering except when you're doing that) and get a light source beneath)

- Be a pal and while you do the split S bit, you know, try to flash the torch inside. From the bottom and also from the top.

- in 20 minutes time

- Yo mate you're alright? What kids did laugh at you? Don't worry about that.

- Ok no sight of the cross. Not a chance. Too deep in the body of the gunsight? Especially not a chance in the bright light. Okay.

- Why did I ask you to do that? You kow there is this computer game...

Phonecall interrupted after series of angry sounds.

I didn't make him take a pictures or make a video. :grin:

[pupo162]

lol XD

if you had posted that sooner on bugtracker.....

you know im listed as a vote against, but i recon it was a mistake... sorry

[Redroach]

Oh, you're in your element now, I see.

Though I still fail to realize why the reticle origin shouldn't be seen faintly. Well, whatever.

[zipper]

I've got a buddy that collects WW2 gunsights as well and there is nothing but glass to see when they're off.

PS expensive hobby

[jcenzano]

I have flown (many years ago) F-5 with the old fixed reticle system (no HUD), which I think that it was pretty much the same thing than the ones on WWIII when it comes to optics.

When it was off you could see nothing at all, just the dirt on the glass, but no faint crosshairs.

Too bad I can't post any picture, but i did not have a digital camera back then...

[skouras]

actually same thread exist on benchmark sims about the HUD on f-16
someone make a mod about it as it create a blue colour on it depending on the light

[Robo.]

Oh, you're in your element now, I see.

Though I still fail to realize why the reticle origin shouldn't be seen faintly. Well, whatever.

Redroach I am not sure what have I done to you. I posted with a bit of humour as I don't take this issue or myself that seriously. ;)

I actually bothered a friend (yes it's very expensive hobby) to check this for us and it seems that it is not right as it is in game.

[von Brühl]

In certain lighting conditions like a bulb switched on underneath the plate? Or a torch from the top? Perhaps. I just rang my friend up and made a strange request - it is very sunny at the moment, mid day:

- Yo mate you're alright? Please take your German ReVi (12c), take your L-29 (MiG-15) and MiG-21 gunsights outside and have a look if you can see any reticle reflection on the glass.

- What?

- Take them outside in the sun, wiggle with them, turn them upside down and look at the glass if any light reflects on the reflector glass

- Rob you're crazy, the thing is off. There is nothing visible on the glass unless you switch it on. That's how they invented it you know... I am not taking my stuff outside just because you're nuts. You need some bloody light to get that thing work you know that. That's why there is a bulb inside, see...

- Alright just take the ReVi then

- I am not taking that outside, neighbours will look at me funny.

- Just put in in a Tesco bag, take the MiG-15 then.

- Rob there is no light in there I am standing by the window you fool.

- No no, go outside and walk, move it along like you're turning circles in the aircrfaft, then make a Spilit s or something. Pleeeeeeeease. And while you're at it take a torch with you. When you see the cross say TATATATATATA.

- sigh

- I'll ring you back in 20 minutes alright. I need to know if you can see anything on the gunsight glass.

- I can tell you now that you bloody can't. (he explained to me how to insert a filter in there and how there is no chance of any light entering except when you're doing that) and get a light source beneath)

- Be a pal and while you do the split S bit, you know, try to flash the torch inside. From the bottom and also from the top.

- in 20 minutes time

- Yo mate you're alright? What kids did laugh at you? Don't worry about that.

- Ok no sight of the cross. Not a chance. Too deep in the body of the gunsight? Especially not a chance in the bright light. Okay.

- Why did I ask you to do that? You kow there is this computer game...

Phonecall interrupted after series of angry sounds.

I didn't make him take a pictures or make a video. :grin:


LOL, we can now declare a winner for this thread!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUxLR5Lk4uU

[Liz Lemon]

Yes i remember some users complaining, can't remember if it was here or over sukhoi.ru, that the original sight effect was quite hard to aim with and ask for the laser shapes gunsight like in 46, decision that i don't share the original reflec sight effect was exelent, and with the bulb off the effect should be less noticeable as now there's quite no difference between Off-On modes.

Really?

Can we get some comparison screens of this?

Actually, come to think of it I have a couple installs of COD on my comp with different patch versions. I've been thinking about making some apples to apples comparisons with things like sunsets and the like. I guess I should add gun sights to the mix as well.

Tracks recorded in the first version will be compatible with the most recent patch, correct?

[philip.ed]

Oh, you're in your element now, I see.

Though I still fail to realize why the reticle origin shouldn't be seen faintly. Well, whatever.

Sad little boy turns to childish, naive, come-backs. Posts like these have a long-term effect on anything credible you wish to write on this forum, especially when it appears you are stirring the pot.

---

going back to what Potenz said earlier on, I do think the reticle (when lit up) looked a lot better in earlier patches when it was clear there was a projected light-source. It does look too laser-like at the moment.