Question

[HessleReich]

"• Not fully optimized: grass, clouds, and trees. Clouds cause constant FPS drop; grass and trees cause hick-ups. A few extra days of work for this, a few days for grass, few days for clouds."

Friday update from MAY 5th

How many more days? I ask as i remember trying to sooth one or two people with this info last month...

My squad and myself flew in the Storm of War Campaign last sunday, i could not join due to some unknown connection issues along with a prominent comunity liason (bad server code) and 3 of my squaddies got CTD 2 mins before hitting the action area leaving only one pilot to represent.

I put off posting as i didnt want to sound like i was complaining or raging, this is not my aim. On the other hand i do not want to be lied to, some of you may know my enthusiasm has gotten me into trouble in the past as i wanted to promote the sim as i love it maybe too much.

Please B6 when can i fly through a cloud without CTD on my £1400 hardware?

[Continu0]

The only answer is: When the work is done...

I can understand you very well, there are many annoying things.

But its paradox to beg for an patch-release that is too early. Presure to release it led to the fact that the game was released unfinished, now we shouldn´t add more presure to get an unfinished patch...

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

I beg to differ,after 'ALL' the years in development,and subsequant promises of patches that will change the world,how much longer are we,their loyal customers supposed to wait?

Why can't we add more pressure?.......rubbish!after all,they seem to the average Joe Bloggs on here to be all too proud to show off their new creations in the form of this sequel,when the main project itself that has taken all this time to develop is woefully flawed and has almost been abandoned it would seem,no,Hessle is correct to chase them for a fix,as we all are!

It's time for action and like the majority on this forum we want progress on the patch first,when COD is corrected and performs as it should,then,maybe we'll be more keen to see screenshots of WIP on the sequel,until this happens though,they are playing a dangerous game with their customers patience.

[David Hayward]

how much longer are we,their loyal customers supposed to wait?

Until it's done...

[HessleReich]

Agree completely with what your saying, my intention is not to pressure anyone, I am wondering why we were lied to.

I believe (correct me if im wrong) the Sim was rushed due to funding and the publisher/developer relationship. I believe this game had upto 7 years for production, being a texture artist i have a small understanding of "Virtual" production.

Being a lover of IL2, almost as much as the biggest fanboy, dont get me wrong. I fly despite the issues daily, i am a supporter of the franchise and even despite everything with Clod i still keep coming back and will even buy BOM on the first day to help support these small developers.

[_YoYo_]

Team of 777 released new patch for RoF with weapon mods. 1.026! Go to check!

In this Friday, here we will see next "very soon" and next promises. Thats all and sadly true. Cant understand this approach of 1C team for community.

Dx9? On the box for 10% of community? What with the rest? Scripts for communications, ai, fm, avionics are SCRIPTS, works too same on Dx8,9,11, ect. Pity!

[SiThSpAwN]

Agree completely with what your saying, my intention is not to pressure anyone, I am wondering why we were lied to.

I believe (correct me if im wrong) the Sim was rushed due to funding and the publisher/developer relationship. I believe this game had upto 7 years for production, being a texture artist i have a small understanding of "Virtual" production.

Being a lover of IL2, almost as much as the biggest fanboy, dont get me wrong. I fly despite the issues daily, i am a supporter of the franchise and even despite everything with Clod i still keep coming back and will even buy BOM on the first day to help support these small developers.

Remember too that the original dev team is all but gone, the new team has been trying to pick up the pieces of the old devs and the mess it was left in... doesnt make anything easier at this point, but realize what the current team is up against... a rock (publisher) and a hard place (customers)

[Continu0]

I am wondering why we were lied to.



I don´t feel like being lied to. Maybe given wrong promisses, but i think it is hard to give promises timewhise in a developing process.

As far as i remember, B6 last statement was that "if everything goes extremly well..." we should have had the patch a week ago.
From that I can only conclude that things didn´t go extremly well.

By the way, I am almost sure that we will see something interesting this Friday. B6 stated that the end of June is the Deadline to announce the next Sequel, and after Friday there is only saturday left....

[BlackSix]

"• Not fully optimized: grass, clouds, and trees. Clouds cause constant FPS drop; grass and trees cause hick-ups. A few extra days of work for this, a few days for grass, few days for clouds."

Friday update from MAY 5th

How many more days? I ask as i remember trying to sooth one or two people with this info last month...

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

I don´t feel like being lied to. Maybe given wrong promisses, but i think it is hard to give promises timewhise in a developing process.

But we are all agreed,someone at 1C is being very economical with the truth,hehe:grin:

[AbortedMan]

I completely understand everyone's frustration and feel just as frustrated and impatient...that being said, you have to realize there is a ton of stuff that goes on when developing software.

I just got a job working with Microsoft IT and the ridiculous effort and time it takes just to get a simple network device polling web based application deployed and up on its feet is staggering to say the least. The process of conceptualizing code, writing, collaborating, testing, deploying, testing, fixing, testing, troubleshooting and testing some more is painfully tedious and slow...and that's just for a seemingly relatively simple network querying service attached to IIS in a pretty website...imagine an entire simulator with textures, shading, physics, flight/damage model, netcode, AI, controls, and you have to keep it all from taxing a PC so much that the fps stays acceptable. It's definitely hard work and I know a ton of players don't realize that. Patches aren't something any company can bang out like fast food.

I'm not saying this situation we're in is awesome, 1C could have made a couple different steps to lessen the current issues, but that's neither here nor there now. All we can do is wait the appropriate and reasonable amount of time that it takes for these things to happen. And no, a year after release is not enough to make a game that was rushed by a publisher, or anyone, sparkly perfect.

Either way, when the patch finally does come out, a lot of the same people that were blindly and uneducatedly whining for the patch will immediately whine for another one because it's not good enough, or it might break somethin else, which it probably will.

Heh, I dunno why I bother writing this, most won't get anything from it. I guess only because I'm taking a dump at work and get wifi in the bathroom. Time to wipe!

[ATAG_Doc]

Heh, I dunno why I bother writing this, most won't get anything from it. I guess only because I'm taking a dump at work and get wifi in the bathroom. Time to wipe!

A sinker or a floater?

[SiThSpAwN]

A sinker or a floater?


Are we really that desperate for any updates? :D

[Taxman]

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

This just might be the most important bit of information posted in a long time.;)

[Luftwaffepilot]

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Says it all, omg

[Ze-Jamz]

Oh my god...it was finished in May!!!

Blacksix...WE WANTS IT!!!

http://morphthing.s3.amazonaws.com/showimage/1/1774-wa.jpeg

[melasuda]

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy que me LOL

[SG1_Mino]

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Sorry What does this mean ???
I´ve read this and i cant belive it. You know that we arethe clients you must think that if your clients are angry you cant eat because you will be fired!!!

[AbortedMan]

The code may have been finished in May, but not the internal testing...which means its just as "not done" as it was the first day they started it.

Not thoroughly play testing = the bad state the game is in right now.

Release an incomplete patch and we're jumping out of the proverbial pot and into the fire.

[Robert]

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

What a c*ck tease.

[6S.Tamat]

What a c*ck tease.

Lol, it really seems but i hope and think in a language barrier's problem

[Chivas]

I completely understand everyone's frustration and feel just as frustrated and impatient...that being said, you have to realize there is a ton of stuff that goes on when developing software.

I just got a job working with Microsoft IT and the ridiculous effort and time it takes just to get a simple network device polling web based application deployed and up on its feet is staggering to say the least. The process of conceptualizing code, writing, collaborating, testing, deploying, testing, fixing, testing, troubleshooting and testing some more is painfully tedious and slow...and that's just for a seemingly relatively simple network querying service attached to IIS in a pretty website...imagine an entire simulator with textures, shading, physics, flight/damage model, netcode, AI, controls, and you have to keep it all from taxing a PC so much that the fps stays acceptable. It's definitely hard work and I know a ton of players don't realize that. Patches aren't something any company can bang out like fast food.

I'm not saying this situation we're in is awesome, 1C could have made a couple different steps to lessen the current issues, but that's neither here nor there now. All we can do is wait the appropriate and reasonable amount of time that it takes for these things to happen. And no, a year after release is not enough to make a game that was rushed by a publisher, or anyone, sparkly perfect.

Either way, when the patch finally does come out, a lot of the same people that were blindly and uneducatedly whining for the patch will immediately whine for another one because it's not good enough, or it might break somethin else, which it probably will.

Heh, I dunno why I bother writing this, most won't get anything from it. I guess only because I'm taking a dump at work and get wifi in the bathroom. Time to wipe!

+1

People clamor for news of a possible ETA, but the developer can only guess. Then when the guesstimate is wrong the developers are called a liars. Quite bizarre.

Even if the patch was done in May it may have meant the stability, and fps issues were fixed enough to allow them to add more features to the patch like clouds etc. Just like the last patch that added some unexpected AI, Commands, and FM fixes.

Its a tenuous situation, that's probably a struggle everyday to convince the bean counters they can fix this thing.

[BlackSix]

I won't comment it more because you don't understand my words or don't want to understand.

[Continu0]

I won't comment it more because you don't understand my words or don't want to understand.

You mean because of the "maybe"?

[FS~Phat]

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

I believe what Blacksix was trying to say was.

Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.
Which is perfectly reasonable. (confirmed by B6 below)

Yes, that's my problem. I don't see any difference between these two phrases. They are translated into Russian the same.
Thanks Phat.

Guys please understand B6 is still learning english and a direct russian translation would lack some of the small important words that we take for granted.
Such as "if" and the context of a sentence can be completely lost in translation.

You guys have used Google to translate before and you know it does the same thing, sometimes it looses context by omitting important words or changing the order of words which has an effect on the meaning. (changing the S-V-O order can have an effect on the meaning in english)

A new english speaker often has this problem.

English and Russian language structure is generally Subject-Verb-Object but Russian language is a lot more flexible with the order, especially in more complex sentence structures.

For example, the sentence "A cat caught a mouse" can be translated into Russian in the following ways: All would be understood by a Russian native speaker to mean the same thing.

1) Кошка поймала мышь.
2) Мышь поймала кошка.
3) Поймала кошка мышь.
4) Кошка мышь поймала.
5) Мышь кошка поймала.
6) Поймала мышь кошка.

However, if we translate those same sentences back to English without an understanding of english (as google has kindly done below) you can see the meaning is completely different.

1) The cat caught the mouse.
2) The mouse has caught the cat.
3) I caught a mouse the cat.
4) The cat caught the mouse.
5) The cat caught the mouse.
6) I caught a mouse the cat.

So its not hard to see that this...
Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Was probably meant as this...
Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.

So in the end we need to give B6 some slack and understanding that not everything he is trying to say will be interpreted the way he has intended.
A lot of you are always looking for the bad angle instead of trying to understand the intent given the translation from Russian to English.

Thanks for the effort B6 we appreciate your efforts especially given English is a new language for you. You are getting much better though so dont let this lot get to you!!

Here's another quick lesson on Russian and why its translations are sometimes perceived as blunt, direct or rude. Russian language doesnt need all the extra padding we use in English.

Some people say that the Russian language can be hard to learn. This is not really true, learning Russian is no harder than learning other languages. The main difficulty for a lot of people is learning the new grammar structure. If you have learnt other languages before you will already be familiar with some of these grammar concepts, such as gender and cases.

In fact, there are many things that make Russian easier to learn than other languages. The key is to use these things to your advantage. Here are some things that make Russian easier.

1. Once you learn the alphabet, you can pronounce almost all words quite accurately. With Russian the pronunciation is normally quite clear from the written form of the word.

2. Russian does not use complicated sentence structures like English. You can normally say exactly what you want with just a few words. For example, in English to be polite we would say something like “can you please pass me the salt”, however in Russian they would say something simpler like “give salt please”. Speaking so directly may even feel unusual for an English speaker, however it is perfectly normal, just add the word ‘please’ to be polite. This makes it easy to say what you want in Russian, and it will probably be correct. Less words also makes listening to people easier, as you can just pick out the important words.

3. Russian uses the case system. Instead of having a strict sentence word order like in English, you just need to change the ends of the nouns. This makes Russian a very expressive language, because you can emphasise a point by changing the order of the words in a sentence. It also helps you understand what people are trying to say.

4. Russian does not use articles. (Like “a” and “the”)

5. Russian has fewer tenses than English. Russian does not bother with the difference between “I was running”, “I had been running”, etc.

Cheers,
Phat.

[BlackSix]

So its not hard to see that this...
Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Was probably meant as this...
Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.


Yes, that's my problem. I don't see any difference between these two phrases. They are translated into Russian the same.
Thanks Phat.

[SlipBall]

I believe what Blacksix was trying to say was.

Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.
Which is perfectly reasonable.

Guys please understand B6 is still learning english and a direct russian translation would lack some of the small important words that we take for granted.
Such as "if" and the context of a sentence can be completely lost in translation.

You guys have used Google to translate before and you know it does the same thing, sometimes it looses context by omitting important words or changing the order of words which has an effect on the meaning. (changing the S-V-O order can have an effect on the meaning in english)

A new english speaker often has this problem.

English and Russian language structure is generally Subject-Verb-Object but Russian language is a lot more flexible with the order, especially in more complex sentence structures.

For example, the sentence "A cat caught a mouse" can be translated into Russian in the following ways: All would be understood by a Russian native speaker to mean the same thing.

1) Кошка поймала мышь.
2) Мышь поймала кошка.
3) Поймала кошка мышь.
4) Кошка мышь поймала.
5) Мышь кошка поймала.
6) Поймала мышь кошка.

However, if we translate those same sentences back to English without an understanding of english (as google has kindly done below) you can see the meaning is completely different.

1) The cat caught the mouse.
2) The mouse has caught the cat.
3) I caught a mouse the cat.
4) The cat caught the mouse.
5) The cat caught the mouse.
6) I caught a mouse the cat.

So its not hard to see that this...
Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Was probably meant as this...
Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.

So in the end we need to give B6 some slack and understanding that not everything he is trying to say will be interpreted the way he has intended.
A lot of you are always looking for the bad angle instead of trying to understand the intent given the translation from Russian to English.

Thanks for the effort B6 we appreciate your efforts especially given English is a new language for you. You are getting much better though so dont let this lot get to you!!

Here's another quick lesson on Russian and why its translations are sometimes perceived as blunt, direct or rude. Russian language doesnt need all the extra padding we use in English.

Some people say that the Russian language can be hard to learn. This is not really true, learning Russian is no harder than learning other languages. The main difficulty for a lot of people is learning the new grammar structure. If you have learnt other languages before you will already be familiar with some of these grammar concepts, such as gender and cases.

In fact, there are many things that make Russian easier to learn than other languages. The key is to use these things to your advantage. Here are some things that make Russian easier.

1. Once you learn the alphabet, you can pronounce almost all words quite accurately. With Russian the pronunciation is normally quite clear from the written form of the word.

2. Russian does not use complicated sentence structures like English. You can normally say exactly what you want with just a few words. For example, in English to be polite we would say something like “can you please pass me the salt”, however in Russian they would say something simpler like “give salt please”. Speaking so directly may even feel unusual for an English speaker, however it is perfectly normal, just add the word ‘please’ to be polite. This makes it easy to say what you want in Russian, and it will probably be correct. Less words also makes listening to people easier, as you can just pick out the important words.

3. Russian uses the case system. Instead of having a strict sentence word order like in English, you just need to change the ends of the nouns. This makes Russian a very expressive language, because you can emphasise a point by changing the order of the words in a sentence. It also helps you understand what people are trying to say.

4. Russian does not use articles. (Like “a” and “the”)

5. Russian has fewer tenses than English. Russian does not bother with the difference between “I was running”, “I had been running”, etc.

Cheers,
Phat.


Good post thanks...

[SiThSpAwN]

Great post Phat, very informative, I could see why, in the position B6 is in, he would be wary of doing a lot of chatter on here due to the fear of it coming across wrong....

The honest fact is that if you look at the Russian forums, its not like they are getting a ton more info than us, the bottom line is we get all the information that is out there, at least 95%...

[Pudfark]

That makes a lot of sense Phat.
Thanx for posting the explain.
It should clear up some of the issues.

@B6
"You keep pitching and we will try to catch"
Thank You

[Volksieg]

Yep! A very illuminating post, Phat. :)

I've always been fascinated by the concept of psycholinguistics (How language constructs thought patterns and, thusly, culture) and I wonder whether cultural differences may play a part also... inasmuch as different cultures have different views on what is acceptable and what is not. I'm not speaking of such things as cultural taboos but more how one culture may be more accepting of delays, length of time needed to iron out problems etc... than others. Being Western, we have, for better or worse, grown used to having things how we want them, when we want them! Food for thought.

Doesn't mean I'm not annoyed at the state of Cliffs of Dover all of a sudden, mind, but it could explain the amount of rage on the forum at times. :D

When all is said and done... whether fanboy or critic... we are a right spoiled bunch really. lol

[FS~Phat]

Yep! A very illuminating post, Phat. :)

I've always been fascinated by the concept of psycholinguistics (How language constructs thought patterns and, thusly, culture) and I wonder whether cultural differences may play a part also... inasmuch as different cultures have different views on what is acceptable and what is not. I'm not speaking of such things as cultural taboos but more how one culture may be more accepting of delays, length of time needed to iron out problems etc... than others. Being Western, we have, for better or worse, grown used to having things how we want them, when we want them! Food for thought.

Doesn't mean I'm not annoyed at the state of Cliffs of Dover all of a sudden, mind, but it could explain the amount of rage on the forum at times. :D

When all is said and done... whether fanboy or critic... we are a right spoiled bunch really. lol

Yes the cultural differences absolutely need to be considered as well. Spot on!

[Volksieg]

Yes the cultural differences absolutely need to be considered as well. Spot on!

Yep. I remember, a fair few years back now, I worked with a bunch of guys from (What was just then beginning not to be) Yugoslavia. Things would go wrong, as they do in any workplace, and my fellow Englishmen would get quite irate and the usual prejudice one hears about Slavs started being bandied around.... the amusing thing is, the job always got done! By the Yugoslavians, no less! Whilst they were slowly making their way over to the problem area, we were all too busy moaning, complaining, having mini-nervous breakdowns and ripping our hair out. In the UK people have to look busy... if they don't look busy then they, obviously, aren't. Truth being told all that is really happening is us English are just losing years from our lifespans for no good reason. :D

Anyway... I'm off to burst a blood vessel now as I ordered a book 2 weeks ago and it still hasn't been delivered...... RAGE!!!!

[HessleReich]

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

I can read between the lines on this one, thank-you for your timely response sir.

Cant wait till fri the 29th even if its only news.