Ok MG.. you want me to buy BoM after all CoD was during this year..

[adonys]

It's obvious that after 1 year and 3 months, the game is still far away from what was promoted and sold to us, and far from functional. I won't start arguing about this, it's common knowledge by now, and it's also common sense.

You are working on BoM, and you want us to buy it.

I will, but for that, you will have to make one of the following things:
- provide a beta patch for IL2CoD via torrent in each friday until the realease of the IL2BoM, with the latest version of the code, new graphics you added in the week which just passed. read OPEN BETA
- provide the IL2CoD/BoM code under GPL at the moment you are selling BoM

Otherwise, do not expect me to buy your BoM, unless a a miracle happened!

salutes!

[Luftwaffepilot]

Only fools will do different.

Personally I've had CloD since release (even preordered) but Steam says: 12 hours. This is the only piece of gaming software in my entire life that had that bit of attention from myself.

[FS~looksharp]

any more demands while your at it.....

why not ask for a ransom lol:eek:

[adonys]

I'm sorry, but those are not demands.

those words are an offer of future business, made in good faith and coming from an old business partner.

and frankly, much more than MG would have deserved considering the IL2CoD release state, and it's state after 1 year and 3 months. but I'm an old fool, and I really loved their work on old IL2 series, so I'm willing to help them help themselves.


you can continue the trolling, look"sharp", but don't expect another answer from my part.

[David Hayward]

adonys, you should threaten to hold your breath until they fix CoD. That will definitely get their attention.

[pstyle]

adonys, you should threaten to hold your breath until they fix CoD. That will definitely get their attention.
The market needs a competitor....

[Blackdog_kt]

Stay respectful of other posters, developers and forum users alike. Stick to the topic. Don't attack other posters for having a different opinion.

David Hayward, Adonys opened this post to properly use the forum and not clutter the main update thread: he wanted to discuss his opinion, he opened a thread for it. That's the proper thing to do.

The fact that you don't agree with his opinion doesn't give you the right to make smartypants remarks in order to provoke a reaction (aka trolling). Feel free to add your opinion and debate the issue, but stay within the boundaries of the forum rules.

I have a feeling lots of people will get banned this weekend, and it will be nobody's fault but theirs.

[csThor]

I will, but for that, you will have to make one of the following things:
- provide a beta patch for IL2CoD via torrent in each friday until the realease of the IL2BoM, with the latest version of the code, new graphics you added in the week which just passed. read OPEN BETA

This I agree with in principle. At least it would indicate any kind of progress and a willingness to come out of the ivory tower and face the crowd. But I'd limit that to CloD-relevant stuff - I don't need an La-5 in CloD at all. That bugger comes early enough. ;)

But ...


- provide the IL2CoD/BoM code under GPL at the moment you are selling BoM
That's merely starry-eyed. If they want to sell stuff (including that MMO-thingy) they can't open their engine. Simple as that.

[FS~Phat]

Just a reminder to keep it civil... oh and amusing if possible. I do enjoy a robust debate and discussion with a little tongue in cheek but just mind this thread doesnt deteriorate or it will be locked.

Carry on gentlemen! ;)

[David Hayward]

The market needs a competitor....

Yes, I'm sure there must be someone out there who wants to risk a huge investment for a small market of crybabies.

[Feathered_IV]

There is a pretty nice information update and interview over at the RoF website today. Nice to see how the other half do it. Watch and learn Maddox Games.

[csThor]

Can anyone grab Jason and clone him? (for without him RoF wouldn't have development updates, either)

[pstyle]

Yes, I'm sure there must be someone out there who wants to risk a huge investment for a small market of crybabies.

I'm not suggesting it would be easy..... But the crybaby element could be overcome through output quality.

Small market is difficult one though. I think you'd need sales of around 500,000 to justify spending a ten million or so :)

[adonys]

GPL means no one could use that code for selling.

And the second option guarantees that, no matter the state of the game/engine at the BoM release, community can pick it up, fix it and continue the work on it to bring it to at least an acceptable state if MG are not up to the task (as in if they won't be interested anymore, or they are not able to)

And then, I will be willing to pay them for that.

[David Hayward]

I'm not suggesting it would be easy..... But the crybaby element could be overcome through output quality.


No it wouldn't. Rise of Flight is a fantastic game with very few annoying problems and there is still a constant stream of whining on their forum.

[csThor]

GPL means no one could use that code for selling.

And the second option guarantees that, no matter the state of the game/engine at the BoM release, community can pick it up, fix it and continue the work on it to bring it to at least an acceptable state if MG are not up to the task (as in if they won't be interested anymore, or they are not able to)

And then, I will be willing to pay them for that.

But they could not sell anything anymore, at least not with the amount of "exclusivety" a closed engine could. 1C would never allow that.

[6S.Tamat]

[id Hayward;436832]Yes, I'm sure there must be someone out there who wants to risk a huge investment for a small market of crybabies.[/QUOTE]

If the team of rof would start a project on let's say pacific ww2 i bet that more than a risk would be an investment.

[SEE]

I have over 1500 hours of fun and some frustration with CloD for £50, that works out at just over 3 pence per hour, I will be buying BoM for sure even if it isn't perfect!

[Flanker35M]

S!

The last beta gave me some hope with CoD as the performance increased considerably from earlier releases. But again the game should have been a lot better since release as the devs had more than 10 years COMBINED experience with IL-2 series, no more novices or without extensive data to use in development.

So let's hope BoM or whatever the sequel will be, runs out of the box right away with the bitter lessons learned from CoD release. Being one of the best and only publishers of flight sims does not warrant to slack the slightest ;) So good luck with patch work and sequel. Sincerely.

[ems9]

adonys my personal opinion is, don't formalize your opinion already!
The game will have updates, and things will be fixed!
Both games have the same game engine so one game will be the shadow of the other.
I bet they will not release BoM until they got the game running well. (This is what I think).
I will just buy BoM if CoD runs well! If CoD runs well, BoM will run well too!

About your main suggestion.
1)
It look's great and it's what everyone want's to listen.
I don't think a game engine can be worked like that.
Like extreme development, you make a small release/feature each week.
In a short time span as a week working on the game engine(graphic engine etc), develop, test, fix, test and release. I bet that is impossible.
A monthly time span would be more likely. Even like that, when you are digging to much, it's easy to screw.
2)
BoM is a mod add on basically, just new planes, new maps, new objects, so there is no need for testing. Like I said they have the same engine, so they share the same features and problems! Just with different environments!

About everything else you said, I have the same opinion.

[Ataros]

If sequel is MMO it will probably be free to play = no need to buy.

The problem is the MMO part will be buggy. Potential reason to failure. It would be more clever to release a standard 1941-42 sequel first to get trust back and only then add 1942-46 as MMO imho.

[David Hayward]

If the team of rof would start a project on let's say pacific ww2 i bet that more than a risk would be an investment.

The fact that they haven't done it should tell you all you need to know about why 1C has no competition.

[kendo65]

There is a pretty nice information update and interview over at the RoF website today. Nice to see how the other half do it. Watch and learn Maddox Games.

Totally agree - the updates for their next patch have been flowing nicely for the last week or so. They keep sorting out the 'itch' before I need to scratch it. (not sure about that metaphor actually....:confused:)

...
If the team of rof would start a project on let's say pacific ww2 i bet that more than a risk would be an investment.

Read this in an ROF team interview on SimHQ:

Jonas: What attracts you to modeling the English Channel / La Manche?

Albert: First of all, the new model of interaction of the seaplane with water. This is a completely new experience in piloting. In the current simulators, this component [landing on water] is made arbitrarily and in fact we do not yet have the answer to the question of "how it was", so I really want to get it [right]. The map itself will be very different from what we have now — not just a set of trees or other houses, but a completely different theater of war. Of course, this map is [potentially] just perfect for Spitfire vs. Messerschmitt. At least one can dream.

http://www.simhq.com/_air14/air_526a.html

I don't honestly think that it is anything other than 'dreaming out loud' atm, but an interesting comment all the same.


On the COD patch situation generally, I really don't know what to say any more, so have been generally keeping quiet. Patience has been well and truly exhausted though. What a saga...

Hope they can get it sorted, but there is such a bad taste in the mouth now that it will take improvements of huge magnitude to really get me excited and believing in this again.

[JTDawg]

Smoke an mirrors , If i do buy bom (prob not) to fix this game won't it still be broke , Sounds like double down card game .Invest more money on bad ? :evil:

[6S.Tamat]

The fact that they haven't done it should tell you all you need to know about why 1C has no competition.
IMHO the fact that they didn't do tells me only that they didn't choose to do it, I'm still not able to read the mind of the rof developers.

[David Hayward]

IMHO the fact that they didn't do tells me only that they didn't choose to do it, I'm still not able to read the mind of the rof developers.

Jason has posted the reason many times. Money.

[Blackdog_kt]

Yes, I'm sure there must be someone out there who wants to risk a huge investment for a small market of crybabies.

Is it really that impossible for you to post without inserting a jab every other line? Strike two, vacation impending.

[David Hayward]

Is it really that impossible for you to post without inserting a jab every other line? Strike two, vacation impending.

Please don't ban me! I don't want to miss the whining about next Friday's announcement that the patch isn't ready yet...

[ATAG_Keller]

I have 831 Steam logged hours of fun in Cliffs of Dover. I guess that's because I fly instead of complaining on the forums.

[von Pilsner]

- provide the IL2CoD/BoM code under GPL at the moment you are selling BoM

I can't imagine that will ever happen, it's their next-generation game engine and they would have to be crazy to give it away. (and some code is presumably licensed from other companies, that would cause problems as well [GPL speed trees?]).

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

From my perspective, all of my loyalty which was built up by the original IL-2 series has been dissipated by the poor handling and poor development of CoD.

I bought three copies of CoD when it came out. The original digital early release Russian version, the digital 2nd British release, and a box copy in my home country of Canada. I have invested in the hopes of seeing results.

But clearly, at this point, this game is unfinished and my loyalty is GONE.

To make matters worse, the poor decision to spend most of the company's resources on developing a new Eastern Front expansion before the original game has been sorted out is the height of crass opportunism in my opinion.

I WILL NOT spend another dime on 1c Maddox Flight Sims till the game they sold me is properly sorted.

The stupidest thing about the decision to spend all their efforts on an Eastern expansion, is that the company could have fixed their current game, and developed a Western based expansion using most of the current planeset for less effort and money.

The current planeset plus one or two new planes could have been used for a Malta 1940-early 41 Campaign, a Greek 1941 Campaign and a BoB Nightbombing Campaign with the main requirement being maps and a few cockpits. A Malta map would be very simple and easy, being mostly water, a 1940 Greek Map would give the opportunity to use the mountainous terrain feature capabilities of the game. A BoB nightbombing campaign doesn't even require a map.

The only cockpits needed for the three campaigns would be for the following:

CR42
BR20

Defiant
Beaufighter
Gladiator
Wellington

The only new planes which might be required would be the Swordfish, Potez 633 or PZL-24.

The above could be accomplished with far less time and money investment than a whole new Eastern Front game.

The decisions which have been taken by the 1C Maddox Team in the development and design of this new series have been shortsighted and without logic. They have alienated their former strong customer base with these decisions. It is time they took a second look at what their rationale has been, and set a new course.

[*Buzzsaw*]

The market needs a competitor....

The market already has a competitor.

The best Flight Simulation on the market right now is RISE OF FLIGHT.

I started flying RoF just as an interim game while I waited for CoD. I told all my friends and fellow Squad members CoD would be the better game, I had confidence in 1c Maddox.

I was cruelly disappointed.

Meanwhile RoF has continued to improve, adding planes, features and always listening to its consumers.

It is by far now the better game than CoD, and I spend most of my online time on RoF servers. I only fly CoD after the patches come out, and after the usual disappointment, go right back to RoF.

1C Maddox is going to have to show a LOT of improvement to turn me away from my current loyalty to 777 Productions.

[esmiol]

sorry to break your dream.. .but ROF is NOT the best sim in the market!!!!!!!

maybe the best WW1 sim nothing else.

DCS is a lot better than ROF. and sincerely IL2 is still a great sims.


wathever. stop speaking about ROF it is not a WW2 sim. then stop takin it for exemple.

(by the way... ROF at his release was a real piece of crap.... and it still missing some stuff to be a complete sims. but is is a great sim for lovers of WW1 warbirds)


now the fact you have loyalty for 777 is good... but who cares?!

[SQB]

It seems opinions of ROF are very polarised!

Firstly, it can be compared. It may be set in WW1 but there are still so many parallels. In the end they're both flight based games set in Europe and made on their own engines.

ROF had a rough launch, sure, but for different reasons. The engine was actually quite polished but *very* empty. Il2 is both empty (although less so than ROF for sure!) and running on a much more complex and unpolished engine. Looking at the two engines it is obvious that Il2 is a next gen engine, ROF is really, really, not.

In the end I think it's best to look back at the original il2 Sturmovik! That had one of the worst launches I've seen, only the Ru community kept it afloat. Il2 FB, however, released very smoothly and, due to many features that had actually been introduced in the previous game, became very popular. It was FB that drove on the series, not the original, that's what I'm hoping for here. Especially as BoM is (naturally) set in Russia, so the Ru community will be much stronger.

I do prefer ROF's great customer interaction (although B6 is bringing it back for 1C) and often their ability to nail things first time through. The physics of the aircraft as the bend and break is pretty much the core of the sim! But 1C is quite a visionary company, look at all the little details we have in CloD, try watching bomb drops in slow motion for example, or the smoke and dust rolling off the wings of an aircraft after it takes a hit.

We need more powerful PCs and a more optimised game, then we need some changes to playability, some CoOp and we're on our way.

[Robert]

The fact that they haven't done it should tell you all you need to know about why 1C has no competition.


I don't remember the specific time frame, but Jason at one time wanted to do another theatre of WW2. I THINK it was very shortly before becoming involved with RoF. I also believe there had been speculative updates from 777 Studios declaring the possibility of WW2 CFS. These were over a year ago - one of Jason's" year in review/where we are going next year" updates. I haven't read more about that speculation since.

It's not easy. It's not cheap. We're a tuff crowd to please.

[nearmiss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDDS3ioa8og

[David Hayward]

I don't remember the specific time frame, but Jason at one time wanted to do another theatre of WW2. I THINK it was very shortly before becoming involved with RoF. I also believe there had been speculative updates from 777 Studios declaring the possibility of WW2 CFS. These were over a year ago - one of Jason's" year in review/where we are going next year" updates. I haven't read more about that speculation since.

It's not easy. It's not cheap. We're a tuff crowd to please.

There is no time frame. He has repeatedly said that there is no money for a WW2 flight sim.

[Robert]

There is no time frame. He has repeatedly said that there is no money for a WW2 flight sim.

That's what it came down to. I shoulda made that clear.

[csThor]

The stupidest thing about the decision to spend all their efforts on an Eastern expansion, is that the company could have fixed their current game, and developed a Western based expansion using most of the current planeset for less effort and money.

The current planeset plus one or two new planes could have been used for a Malta 1940-early 41 Campaign, a Greek 1941 Campaign and a BoB Nightbombing Campaign with the main requirement being maps and a few cockpits. A Malta map would be very simple and easy, being mostly water, a 1940 Greek Map would give the opportunity to use the mountainous terrain feature capabilities of the game. A BoB nightbombing campaign doesn't even require a map.

The only cockpits needed for the three campaigns would be for the following:

CR42
BR20

Defiant
Beaufighter
Gladiator
Wellington

The only new planes which might be required would be the Swordfish, Potez 633 or PZL-24.

The above could be accomplished with far less time and money investment than a whole new Eastern Front game.

The decisions which have been taken by the 1C Maddox Team in the development and design of this new series have been shortsighted and without logic. They have alienated their former strong customer base with these decisions. It is time they took a second look at what their rationale has been, and set a new course.

Ah, but you forget that 1C's home market is saying the same about the ETO and MTO ... their prefered theater is the Eastern Front. And aparently - even though this is speculation on my part - the deal between the russian state and 1C to produce computer games about russian history (= $$$) did have a role in that decision as well.

I fully agree that it was premature to switch development resources to new additions, especially since a multitude of things would really fill out the BoB theater (more artillery, ships of any kind etc) and that it would have made more sense to do that because these additions would lay the groundwork for most later thematic additions.

[SlipBall]

From the interview we can only speculate till official word is given. I think next release is the MMO, and that may be the long term future course. The reason Direct 9 is so important to them, MMO


"1) we are developing MMO game based on CloD engine
2) announcement will be soon, June 2012 is deadline
3) it will be hardcore game (as old Il-2 and CloD) for the true simmers
4) alpha version will be ready in 2013"

[1.JaVA_Sharp]

I think that competition is on the horizon and closing in, fast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC2uvIm5p48

[bongodriver]

I think that competition is on the horizon and closing in, fast!

Untill there are enemy aircraft, a mix of relevant AI aircraft and a relevant map then DCS hasn't even moved up to the starting blocks yet, at least COD started the race, they just fell over at the first bend.

All the DCS third party stuff so far is jets.

[Anders_And]

I think that competition is on the horizon and closing in, fast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC2uvIm5p48

As far as I know there is no DM in that sim is there???

Without good DM is nowhere close to being competition...

[carguy_]

I think that competition is on the horizon and closing in, fast!
I agree it is nice, but...seriously?! One aircraft and it`s competition?

@TOPIC :
I will buy the Battle of Moscow. I will support the greatest WWII sim in the making.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I agree it is nice, but...seriously?! One aircraft and it`s competition?
No competition at all, not even close.. And at the rate DCS turns out new planes it never will be.. Thier only hope is all the IL-2 modders switch over to DCS and start making free addons.. Than maybe in 3 or 4 years we will have enough planes to simulate a WWII battle

I will buy the Battle of Moscow. I will support the greatest WWII sim in the making.
Same here!

On that note I bought the DCS P51.. And it is alot of fun! But it will years before we can simulate a WWII battle.

Looking at what is out there, competition wise, there is nothing comming close to CoD wrt WWII.. That and what with all the ground controlable stuff I think the sequal is going to be a big seller!

[kyletiernan]

Untill there are enemy aircraft, a mix of relevant AI aircraft and a relevant map then DCS hasn't even moved up to the starting blocks yet, at least COD started the race, they just fell over at the first bend.

All the DCS third party stuff so far is jets.

I am working close with Glowing Amraam who is the movie maker for that sim and I can tell you that there are some surprises coming very soon to the P-51 scene that will make it more than just a P-51 alone in a fighter jet world ;)

As far as I know there is no DM in that sim is there???

Without good DM is nowhere close to being competition...

There is a fantastic damage model on the p-51 and the rest of the aircraft in that sim are done very well.

[addman]

No competition at all, not even close.. And at the rate DCS turns out new planes it never will be.. Thier only hope is all the IL-2 modders switch over to DCS and start making free addons.. Than maybe in 3 or 4 years we will have enough planes to simulate a WWII battle

Did you just describe the current state of CloD? because MG haven't exactly showered us with a lot of additional planes -not variants- the last year. As I've said previously, I'm willing to pay for additional DLC planes, the DCS MiG-21bis for example, I'm willing, and I will, buy that. I'm not complaining here, just saying serve me what I want and I'll pay for it, market economy ABC.:)

[bongodriver]

I am working close with Glowing Amraam who is the movie maker for that sim and I can tell you that there are some surprises coming very soon to the P-51 scene that will make it more than just a P-51 alone in a fighter jet world ;)

There is a fantastic damage model on the p-51 and the rest of the aircraft in that sim are done very well.

Excellent news....looking forward to it.

Yes the DM is actually pretty good in DCS.

[ATAG_Doc]

No competition for CoD.

DCS P-51 is a fine time waster and nothing more.

I do wish CoD has its complexity. But other than that DCS P-51 is like a wall poster for me.

DM today is very disappointing if you expect it anything close to CoD because it isn't. Not at all.

[trademe900]

I'm with the OP. We have been defrauded and need to harden up with the developers. We have paid good money and will not buy the sequel on a matter of principle.

We will not buy the sequel 1c! Not touching it.

[tintifaxl]

No competition for CoD.

DCS P-51 is a fine time waster and nothing more.



That's absolutely correct. I have wasted many hours on the P-51D since it came out. It is no WW2 sim, but it is a very good P-51D sim. On the other hand CloD is no BoB sim either and I predict it never will be.

That being said, MG can forget about selling BoM to me before they have working radio coms, believeable AI, working bombing sights and an easy to use coop mode built in.

I support Adonys' request for weekly updates via torrents. Of course it will not happen, but I like the idea.

[rga]

That being said, MG can forget about selling BoM to me before they have working radio coms, believeable AI, working bombing sights and an easy to use coop mode built in.


Question is: will you buy the sequel if it does have working radio coms, believeable AI, working bombing sights and an easy to use coop mode built in, plus a flyable FW-190, while CloD stays as broken as it is?

[skarden]

Well I'm going to buy BOM, I paid $50 for COD( I think,it was a while ago now ) and a few hundred hours later I still enjoy it a fair bit ( although not at the moment as I'm oversea's) , granted it's certainly far from perfect and having a decent rig helps to no end, but for what I've paid for it which is easily less then I'd spend in an hour on a night out on the town, I think I've gotten heaps of fun and entertainment out of it, definitely more then the 50 bucks worth paid I for it.

But then again I've always thought my cup was half full.

[carguy_]

But then again I've always thought my cup was half full.
And you went out on a night out to know how much entertainment a man gets for a 50 quid;)

[tintifaxl]

Question is: will you buy the sequel if it does have working radio coms, believeable AI, working bombing sights and an easy to use coop mode built in, plus a flyable FW-190, while CloD stays as broken as it is?

Easy answer is: yes.

[skarden]

Oh yes, purely to compare value of course, and to make it accurate I went out for about 8 hours to get a proper average :P

Turns out 50 bucks n hour doesn't get ya a lot, now 200 bucks............ :D

[carguy_]

Oh yes, purely to compare value of course, and to make it accurate I went out for about 8 hours to get a proper average :P

Turns out 50 bucks n hour doesn't get ya a lot, now 200 bucks............ :D
Yeah, most of the moaners here should try what you did. Then they`d notice the world around them ;)

[Fjordmonkey]

Question is: will you buy the sequel if it does have working radio coms, believeable AI, working bombing sights and an easy to use coop mode built in, plus a flyable FW-190, while CloD stays as broken as it is?

I would, yep. Why? Simple: I treat each product on a per-product basis. I don't care what's happened in the past all that much, and have long since learned to live with buying the proverbial cat in the bag from time to time.

What matters to me when it comes to BoM is the reviews it gets after launch, and whether or not the concept of it is interesting enough. If it is, I'll buy it. If it gets slammed in reviews, I'll wait for 6 months and then see how things are.

[ATAG_Snapper]

For the many hundreds of hours -- according to Steam stats -- of entertainment that CoD has given me, the sim owes me nothing for the 50 bucks I paid for it. However, I'm not complacent with its current state since much is needed to be done to fix it right. Although the BoM front is not a personal preference, I will buy it when available even if it doesn't retroactively upgrade CoD. However, based on MG's track record with 1946, I'd give it a better than average chance that it will.

[Triggaaar]

I look forward to buying the next release when CoD is fully working. It's disappointing that's it's taken so long, but if it gets there in the end I'll be happy, and if not, hey ho.

[BigC208]

I bought an aditional 240gb SSD and installed Il2-1946 with HSFX 6.0 before installing Il2CoD. I had not bothered with Il2 after I got CoD last year. After messing a bit around I have it running at 3370x1680 @60fps and it's a blast! I forgot how cool it is to have radio commands actually working. Pretty good chance CoD is not comming back on the hard drive untill it's fixed properly. The better graphics quality spoils the 1946 fun so I'm just going to pretend it does'nt exist untill BoM is ready for release. I figure by then they will have fixed the problems with CoD.

[ATAG_Dutch]

BoM is ready for release.

Sigh.....

It's not BoM.

It's a sequel.

Isn't there anyone else on this forum who can look at the screenshots I posted in the update thread and verify that at least one of the maps is Stalingrad?

Or are we to perpetually be driven by convenient acronyms?

[Feathered_IV]

I reckon your Stalingrad prediction looks about right, judging from the screenshot comparison. I hope this isn't another case of Maddox Games getting into a fresh mission-creep scenario where they start adding more features, eras and planesets than they can actually handle. Bet you any money they resurrect the Storm of War label soon. ;)

[ATAG_Dutch]

Well thanks Feathered. ;)

I have to say that the RoF fraternity seem a much better disposed bunch than those we see on here.

Having a break from Cliffs and flying RoF has given me a slightly different perspective on lots of things....:)

[Chivas]

Well thanks Feathered. ;)

I have to say that the RoF fraternity seem a much better disposed bunch than those we see on here.

Having a break from Cliffs and flying RoF has given me a slightly different perspective on lots of things....:)

It wasn't a much better disposed bunch when ROF was released. ROF was also released unfinished, but not as unfinished as COD. Hopefully the investors will keep the faith and allow COD to be finished and have therefore a much beter disposed bunch. ;)

[ATAG_Dutch]

Hopefully the investors will keep the faith. ;)

Well.....that's us.... mostly..... Isn't it? Or is it? Could it be the parent company? Big Brother and the Holding Company? Or are they the governmental institutions funding historical awareness throughout the Russian Federation?

The banks?

Or could it be just the paying customer plus all of the above?

Economics and business were never my strongpoint.....:(

[MadTommy]

I really hope the expansion is a long way off... the last thing this game (clod) needs is less people playing it. The online community is horribly small as it is. A sequel soon will likely completely kill it.

I very much doubt i'll be playing any sequel until i've had some solid online play time with Clod, If there is no community to play with in Clod i certainly wont just gobble up their sequel.

I already have too many simulated aircraft on my PC to remember correctly.. with RoF, DCS & CloD.. and i know which one is the problem child. Last thing i need is another problem child..:)

[theOden]

Sigh.....

It's not BoM.

It's a sequel.

Isn't there anyone else on this forum who can look at the screenshots I posted in the update thread and verify that at least one of the maps is Stalingrad?

Or are we to perpetually be driven by convenient acronyms?


Totally true.
Let's call it "Battle over Stalingrad" instead, or BS for short.

[Icebear]

I really hope the expansion is a long way off... the last thing this game (clod) needs is less people playing it. The online community is horribly small as it is. A sequel soon will likely completely kill it.

I very much doubt i'll be playing any sequel until i've had some solid online play time with Clod, If there is no community to play with in Clod i certainly wont just gobble up their sequel.

I already have too many simulated aircraft on my PC to remember correctly.. with RoF, DCS & CloD.. and i know which one is the problem child. Last thing i need is another problem child..:)

Fully agree. IMO this discussion is pointless.

[Feathered_IV]

Well thanks Feathered. ;)

I have to say that the RoF fraternity seem a much better disposed bunch than those we see on here.

Having a break from Cliffs and flying RoF has given me a slightly different perspective on lots of things....:)

Breaking news over there now. Looks good too! ;)

[JG5_emil]

I really hope the expansion is a long way off... the last thing this game (clod) needs is less people playing it. The online community is horribly small as it is. A sequel soon will likely completely kill it.

I very much doubt i'll be playing any sequel until i've had some solid online play time with Clod, If there is no community to play with in Clod i certainly wont just gobble up their sequel.

I already have too many simulated aircraft on my PC to remember correctly.. with RoF, DCS & CloD.. and i know which one is the problem child. Last thing i need is another problem child..:)

The reason the community is small is because a lot of people haven't migrated from IL2 (many of those that did went to play ROF). The question is why?

Personally I think a large part of it is because CLOD provides a much more limited scope for what you can do with it. For me the lack of COOP is the main reason I didn't play more. Then there are the bugs/problems and finally there is the fact that there will be many people who don't have the specs to run CLOD well.

When I first started playing IL2 many people still hadn't migrated from EAW. When ARMA 3 comes out there will be people still playing ARMA II for ages afterwards.

The community isn't smaller (in fact it is probably bigger than in 2002) it is just split over at least 3 games ROF, IL2 and CLOD to a lesser extent.

I'll definately buy BOM (unless it is released as a MMO!) but I'm not sure I have the same enthusiasm for the game as I did. Mainly because for many many years I wanted to play a BOB sim and when I got it I found it surely lacking. Maybe one day we will be able to have a good coop and 70-80 bomber formations etc and play without micro stutter :)

[kendo65]

The reason the community is small is because a lot of people haven't migrated from IL2 (many of those that did went to play ROF). The question is why?

Personally I think a large part of it is because CLOD provides a much more limited scope for what you can do with it. For me the lack of COOP is the main reason I didn't play more. Then there are the bugs/problems and finally there is the fact that there will be many people who don't have the specs to run CLOD well.

When I first started playing IL2 many people still hadn't migrated from EAW. When ARMA 3 comes out there will be people still playing ARMA II for ages afterwards.

The community isn't smaller (in fact it is probably bigger than in 2002) it is just split over at least 3 games ROF, IL2 and CLOD to a lesser extent.

I'll definately buy BOM (unless it is released as a MMO!) but I'm not sure I have the same enthusiasm for the game as I did. Mainly because for many many years I wanted to play a BOB sim and when I got it I found it surely lacking. Maybe one day we will be able to have a good coop and 70-80 bomber formations etc and play without micro stutter :)

One good thing I did because of COD's teething problems was to try out the free demo of ROF. Nearly a year later and I'm totally hooked. Have just updated to the new version 1.026 and bought some weapon mod add-ons.

By way of a contrast to this forum, check out the update thread for ROF, where everyone is ecstatically happy and full of praise for an update that has exceeded expectations.
http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=30934

Not posting to gloat or anything like that. I was just thinking that I really (really!) hope that we all get to experience reactions like that here for a COD update sometime soon.

[Friendly_flyer]

I never got around to buy CoD. I wanted to wait for the release to see what upgrade for my trusty, though dated machine was needed, and then wanted to wait until all the larger bugs had been ironed out, and I'm still hanging around here waiting to see what machine will be optimum in the end. It seems to me the game is in the process of being rewritten from the ground up, buying a rig for a game that isn't really done yet seems a bad idea to me. I suppose I should buy CoD to support the dev team, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I would really like to have my new machine first...

I think the East Front is where the dev teams heart lies, and I can't blame them. Also, as a theatre of war it is much more suited to a combat sim than the Western front and particularly the Pacific Front. When BoM finally comes out, I think it will be fairly polished, just like IL2FB was. By then, CoD will be playable too. So yeah, I'll buy BoM, even if it's only to give the old Hurribuss a spin.

[Chivas]

Well.....that's us.... mostly..... Isn't it? Or is it? Could it be the parent company? Big Brother and the Holding Company? Or are they the governmental institutions funding historical awareness throughout the Russian Federation?

The banks?

Or could it be just the paying customer plus all of the above?

Economics and business were never my strongpoint.....:(

No we aren't the main investors, probably IC publishing is the main share holder. I doubt that the sales of COD came anywhere close to its costs so far. It will probably take more than a couple of sequels before they get to the positive side of the ledger. If the game engine does get fixed, and they can start producing more Sequels, MMO's, Movie making, etc it has the potential to make much more money than the old series.

[carguy_]

I never got around to buy CoD. I wanted to wait for the release to see what upgrade for my trusty, though dated machine was needed, and then wanted to wait until all the larger bugs had been ironed out, and I'm still hanging around here waiting to see what machine will be optimum in the end. It seems to me the game is in the process of being rewritten from the ground up, buying a rig for a game that isn't really done yet seems a bad idea to me. I suppose I should buy CoD to support the dev team, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I would really like to have my new machine first...
Fair enough. Just don`t come here flaming the devs when it turns out your new $2000 pc isn`t up to the task.


I think the East Front is where the dev teams heart lies, and I can't blame them. Also, as a theatre of war it is much more suited to a combat sim than the Western front and particularly the Pacific Front. When BoM finally comes out, I think it will be fairly polished, just like IL2FB was. By then, CoD will be playable too. So yeah, I'll buy BoM, even if it's only to give the old Hurribuss a spin.The PTO, even if from a time perspective was done pretty well, it proved to be a bad concept for a video game. The planes are nice, landing on ships is cool, but searching for them while being lost over full sea was just too frequent ending of a mission. The dive bomber raids and carpet bombing raids did not present even remotely the experience of the same quality as B17/DB3 hunting.

And as a matter of fact, the Forgotten Battles v1.0 screwed the online code completely. It was a reign of laggy games. One of the last FB patches, that was prior to the AEP fixed it finally. FB added lots of nice content but introduced its own set of not-too-small bugs aswell.

[=AN=Apache]

If DCS start making more aircraft of WWII and give scenarios according to the reality of time is more than certain that I will leave aside the CLOD

[CaptainDoggles]

Search your feelings, guys.

You all know deep down that they've given up on CLOD, and they're focusing most of their work on the sequel because Russians will buy it. They're going to cut us loose as soon as BoM comes out.

Don't waste your breath. We're going to get little more than token support for this broken mess.

[bongodriver]

Why still are people not getting it?...........No COD = No sequel, how can they release a second title 'without' having the main game engine fixed first, so no they haven't given up on COD and all the work being done on the sequel is being done by the content designers and not the game engine coders.

[Al Schlageter]

CloD sales

Global Annual Summary (Units)
Year Yearly Change Total
2011 9,034 N/A 9,034
2012 9,638 6.7% 18,672

Europe Annual Summary (Units)
Year Yearly Change Total
2011 7,227 N/A 7,227
2012 7,709 6.7% 14,936

Germany Annual Summary (Units)
Year Yearly Change Total
2011 3,725 N/A 3,725
2012 4,279 14.9% 8,004

France Annual Summary (Units)
Year Yearly Change Total
2011 808 N/A 808
2012 715 -11.5% 1,523

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/53111/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/

[CaptainDoggles]

Why still are people not getting it?...........No COD = No sequel, how can they release a second title 'without' having the main game engine fixed first, so no they haven't given up on COD and all the work being done on the sequel is being done by the content designers and not the game engine coders.

You're speaking from first-hand knowledge, right?

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I have little faith in that occurrence.

[bongodriver]

You're speaking from first-hand knowledge, right?

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I have little faith in that occurrence.

So you are saying they are coding a 'new' engine for the sequel, yeah that makes real sense....no it really does...

[David Hayward]

You're speaking from first-hand knowledge, right?

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I have little faith in that occurrence.

Do you honestly think that they're going to try to create an entirely new engine for the BoM expansion? IT'S THE SAME GAME, and they can't try to sell BoM without fixing CoD. This should be obvious to everyone by now.

[CaptainDoggles]

Please quote where I said anything about the game engine. Thanks.

[bongodriver]

Please quote where I said anything about the game engine. Thanks.

Well then what are you saying?

You say they have abandoned COD and are only working on the sequel, if that were true then it could only mean they are creating a new engine for the new game.
if you are suggesting they are using the same engine for the sequel then by default it means they have 'not' abandoned COD because it's the same engine.

it's been established everyone is 'entitled' to have their whinge, but at least come up with a credible story.

[CaptainDoggles]

If you guys don't understand how a game is written, then that's fine. But don't try to act like you have insider knowledge when it's crystal clear that you do not. I'd just as soon engage with someone who knows what they're talking about, rather than someone who speaks out of their rear end, thank you very much.

There's more to a game than just the engine.

Have fun trolling,
Doggles

[bongodriver]

The level of understanding required to grasp the fact the engine is the main heart of a game is no more than required to understand a human needs a heart to live.....doesn't make you a heart surgeon but everybody knows it.

without a working engine then it's no go.

Have fun calling everyone who makes more sense than you a troll.

[von Brühl]

So to you, anything using the Unreal engine is in fact still the unreal game? Anything utilizing the CoD engine, although marketed as something else, and with drastically different focus (SP/MP vs MMO) would still be the same game?

Again, you show an incredible lack of fact-checking what you say...

[bongodriver]

So to you, anything using the Unreal engine is in fact still the unreal game? Anything utilizing the CoD engine, although marketed as something else, and with drastically different focus (SP/MP vs MMO) would still be the same game?


When the Unreal engine is used in another development company's game it is a 'licensed' use of the engine and althoug it is a different game you will still see elements of the original engine, take Iron front and Arma2, iron front is a standalone game but you can see where the Arma2 engine comes in.

it is a bad example you brought up because the COD engine is not going to be 'licensed' to another developer, it is going to form the base engine for the future of the IL2 series from the same developer and effectively be the 'same' game, I seem to recall this method used before....what was that series called again?......oh yes that's it IL2 and the developers were?......ummm....oh yes that's it 1C.


Again, you show an incredible lack of fact-checking what you say...


When it comes to this forum I always seem to be less knowlegeable about everything than everyone else amazingly.

[robtek]

So to you, anything using the Unreal engine is in fact still the unreal game? Anything utilizing the CoD engine, although marketed as something else, and with drastically different focus (SP/MP vs MMO) would still be the same game?

Again, you show an incredible lack of fact-checking what you say...

You, von Brühl, are just trolling with this completely irrelevant post.

One only sees what he wants to see, it seems.

It was already said by the devs that it would go in the same style as with the original IL2.

First a game, then expansions with added content and maybe improved engine, which would work with all contend so far.

[Friendly_flyer]

And as a matter of fact, the Forgotten Battles v1.0 screwed the online code completely. It was a reign of laggy games.

Well, I'm mostly an off-liner, always was. These days I have a few little ones craving dads attention at irregular intervals, so on-line gaming is right out of the question for me for the time being.

Also, I'm one of those who usually say "Thank you" to BlackSix. While I'm less than thrilled at the whatever mysterious problem ruined the original release, yelling at the current team is not going to help anyone in my view.

[Friendly_flyer]

Don't waste your breath. We're going to get little more than token support for this broken mess.

Isn't BoM supposed to be a sequel? If so, fixing things in BoM means fixing things in CoD.

[JG52Krupi]

Isn't BoM supposed to be a sequel? If so, fixing things in BoM means fixing things in CoD.

Congratulations on pointing out what the others are refusing to admit :D, a shame really :(