Vert/horizon convergence still reversed?

[AbortedMan]

Just wondering if the convergence values in the loadout screen are still reversed and labeled wrong.

I've been tryin to do some testing in quick missions to fine tune my gunplay but I don't feel confident that my settings are represented correctly...the tracers always seem to be at the same angle no matter how extreme I set my convergence.

[Varrattu]

Just wondering if the convergence values in the loadout screen are still reversed and labeled wrong.


Where does that rumor come from?

~S~

[David198502]

yes they are still reversed...you should be able to recognize it if set one of both to the max value which is i think 1000.
then you should clearly see the difference.

[notafinger!]

Yes, they are most certainly still reversed.

[Talisman]

Yes, they are most certainly still reversed.

This might me a silly question, but should both convergence settings be set the same for the same gun? For ex, on my Hurricane if I want MG convergence at 200 yds, I pressume I set both convergence settings to 200, or am I missing something?

Talisman

[ATAG_Snapper]

Some like to set up a "cone of fire" for a given distance.

[pupo162]

This might me a silly question, but should both convergence settings be set the same for the same gun? For ex, on my Hurricane if I want MG convergence at 200 yds, I pressume I set both convergence settings to 200, or am I missing something?

Talisman

Not really.

if i recall correctly german 109s in the BOB had an horizontal convergence of 200 meters, and a vertical convergence of 400 meters. According to other in-mates at my squadron, if you set this the gun sight will be perfectly centered for this shot.

[Troll2k]

A small point.

The units on the convergence setup screen is in meters.The setup rings on the Spitfire and Hurricane gunsights are in yards.

Also to me horizontal"convergence" implies that the bullet path of at least 2 guns spaced apart in the horizontal plane meet in at a point in front of the plane.

Vertical"convergence" seems a misnomer as there is only 1 gun in the vertical
plane and therefore nothing to converge.(I guess some planes had guns in both the horizontal and vertical planes).I would call the vertical "convergence" more of a "droop".

I guess the 109 nose cannon does not have a horizontal convergence(as it is only 1 gun) but does have a vertical droop.

[pstyle]

Vertical"convergence" seems a misnomer as there is only 1 gun in the vertical plane and therefore nothing to converge.(I guess some planes had guns in both the horizontal and vertical planes).I would call the vertical "convergence" more of a "droop".

I guess the 109 nose cannon does not have a horizontal convergence(as it is only 1 gun) but does have a vertical droop.

indeed, I'm not entirely sure how relevant vertical convergence is for wing-firing MGs/ Cannon. Afterall, they're only displaced vertically by a few inches from each other, even assuming some wing loading/ warping.

The furthest MGs on the spit are around 18 feet (i don't know the exact distance) apart (that's 6 or 7 metres), so the forward firing cone is quite narrow. Perhaps the worst thing one can do, is set the convergence TOO close to the aircraft, which would result in very large spread at range.

[FG28_Kodiak]

Bf109 E1 / E3 and E4 all uses the same convergences. wing mounted MG/Cannon set to 200/400m and over Engine mounted MGs 400/400m.
Picture for E3 (E1 and E4 are the same):
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8881/bf109e1e3starreschusswa.jpg

[robtek]

Of course the vertical convergence is relevant for all guns, wing or fuselage mounted.

One needs it to adjust the point where the ballistic arc of the bullet and the sight-line intersect.

[pstyle]

One needs it to adjust the point where the ballistic arc of the bullet and the sight-line intersect.

ah, ok.. of course. I'd overlooked that.

[Varrattu]

Referring the aircraft.ini, iL2CoD-v1.05.15950, the standard convergence for all BF109E is defined as follows:

nose mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 400 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 420 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Rheinmetall-Borsig MG 17 (7.92mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

wing mounted MG 2x Oerlikon/Ikaria MG FF/M (20mm)
vertical convergence == 500 m (Visierschuss)
horizontal convergence == 300 m (Kreuzung)

There is a good reason why vertical standard convergence is 500 m (Visierschuss). The German iL2CoD munition types have been animated in a version "verbessert" (improved). The cartridges are of high-velocity type for maximum performance in aircraft machine guns and give higher pressure than other 7,9 mm rounds.

~S~ Varrattu

Edit 18.06.2012: false link deleted

[Varrattu]

... and here are the standard convergences for all iL2CoD Spitfires and Hurricanes, taken from aircraft.ini, iL2CoD-v1.05.15950:

vertical convergence == 370 yards
horizontal convergence == 370 yards

~S~

Varrattu

[Varrattu]

The German iL2CoD 7,9mm cartridges have been animated in a version "verbessert" (improved):

Cartridge, 7.92x57, S.m.K. - Spitzgeschoss mit Kern
(iL2CoD weapons.ini - v1.05.15950)
MuzzleVelocity 865 ms

Cartridge, 7.92x57, S.m.K.H. - Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Hart
(iL2CoD weapons.ini - v1.05.15950)
BasedOn Mauser7.92x57_S.m.K.
MuzzleVelocity 868 ms

Cartridge, 7.92x57, S.m.K. L'spur (gelb) - Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Leuchtspur (gelb)
(iL2CoD weapons.ini - v1.05.15950)
BasedOn Mauser7.92x57_S.m.K.
MuzzleVelocity 905 ms

Cartridge, 7.92x57, S.m.K. L'spur (weiss) - Spitzgeschoss mit Kern, Leuchtspur (weiss)
(iL2CoD weapons.ini - v1.05.15950)
BasedOn Mauser7.92x57_S.m.K._L'spur(gelb)

Cartridge, 7.92x57, S.m.K. Ub.m.Zerl. - Spitzgeschoss mit Kern Ubungsmunition mit Zerleger
(iL2CoD weapons.ini - v1.05.15950)
BasedOn Mauser7.92x57_S.m.K.
Payload Concussion 0.5 g of Amatol

Cartridge, 7.92x57, P.m.K. - Phosphor mit Stahlkern
(iL2CoD weapons.ini - v1.05.15950)
BasedOn Mauser7.92x57_S.m.K.
Payload Thermal 0.5 g of Amatol
MuzzleVelocity 905 ms

Cartridge, 7.92x57, B. - Beobachtung
(iL2CoD weapons.ini - v1.05.15950)
BasedOn Mauser7.92x57_S.m.K.
Payload Thermal 0.5 g of Amatol
MuzzleVelocity 855 ms



Please have a look:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2166/vmunition.jpg

[AbortedMan]

That's great info, very interesting, but I hope no one takes these values and tries to translate the numbers to in game. With all the Tom Foolery going on with the inaccurate flight models, I'd be extremely surprised to find out that ammunition was correctly modeled in such a fashion as listed above.

[mazex]

Not really.

if i recall correctly german 109s in the BOB had an horizontal convergence of 200 meters, and a vertical convergence of 400 meters. According to other in-mates at my squadron, if you set this the gun sight will be perfectly centered for this shot.

Which makes them converge horizontally at both 200 and 400 - just as a HK G3 assault rifle with the sight set at 200 meters is also correct at 30 meters with the bullet passing the sight line "on the way up" (remember that from my military service days ;)). Not that it matters much at 30 meters but when calibrating sights you do that at 30 meters as it's easier and then it works for 200 meters too...