One can see that people are moving on... [Archive] - Official Fulqrum Publishing forum

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Anders_And

06-03-2012, 03:54 PM

ACE-OF-ACES

06-03-2012, 03:57 PM

rose colored glasses comes to mind.. as in people will see what they want to see.. for all you know your in the eye of the hurricane! ;)

Anders_And

06-03-2012, 03:59 PM

rose colored glasses comes to mind.. as in people will see what they want to see

Or complete lack of glasses...
Or some people just dont see the forrest for all the trees...

ACE-OF-ACES

06-03-2012, 04:03 PM

Hey if belving that helps you get to sleep at night.. go for it! Who am I to busr your bubble! Just as long as realise your glass half empty view of the world is not shared by all, nor should it be confused as fact.

Continu0

06-03-2012, 04:05 PM

No one writing doesn´t mean no one watching.
And be honest: There isn´t much to write about at the moment.

It doesn´t matter if people are moving on. As long as they are visiting this forum once a month, they will get information when the game is fixed, and at that point I think many will pick up the game again...

But yes, I would like to have more frequent, small patches as well... (which would be the logical thing to do from our point of view...)

omgclod

06-03-2012, 04:14 PM

They have to program from the scratch, therefore they must give it to us in one piece

ATAG_Snapper

06-03-2012, 04:16 PM

I think you're right, Continu0. In a related issue, I've been concerned with the number of "regular" Red pilots that have been taking sabbaticals since the last patch + Hotfix. However, just checking the ATAG Allies vs Axis Server we have 42 total online flying this instant; 20 are flying Red (mostly Spitfire IIa's and one brave soul flying a Rotol). This seems about normal for a Sunday, but I have no stats on that.

When the last patch + Hotfix was released there was an instant surge of 80+ players on the Server. This correlates with your view that many are monitoring the sim's progress even if they're not actively participating on the 1C Forum and, in this case, the ATAG Server. There seem to be a growing number of new players (always welcome!!!) for both sides, particularly the Red side. Hopefully a new patch will be released soon that will halt the turnover and see an overall increase in total players (regulars and new) flying and contributing here.

kristorf

06-03-2012, 04:17 PM

AA,
You are correct, people I know are un-installing and moving on due to the lack of progress (or even backward steps)
They might come back if the game ever works correctly, but the big fear (or hope) is that something comes along that actually does what it says on the tin and works properly

ATAG_Doc

06-03-2012, 04:35 PM

It's summer here! Time for outdoor fun!

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I00006ez5utB1ydA/s/750/750/klan00031-dog-attacking-water-hose-in-backyard-fun-vicious-an-wide-eyed-albuquerque-new-mexico.jpg

And they can uninstall all they want. They got your money already. The sooner you quit asking for support the faster they can close shop and go on vacation.

Now if it was a subscription based MMO...that is a different matter.

ACE-OF-ACES

06-03-2012, 04:54 PM

Now that is funny.. I was just outside playing with the dog and the water hose! ;)

FG28_Kodiak

06-03-2012, 05:00 PM

Don't forget Diablo 3, many wana see error 37s :rolleyes:

BTW. 8421 Downloads of the mini patch (in this forum) is not a small number, people is out there and watching. ;)

ATAG_Snapper

06-03-2012, 05:12 PM

With a successful patch players old and new will come bounding back like a......wet puppy! :)

http://www.pbase.com/daverilstone/image/143751797.jpg

senseispcc

06-03-2012, 05:25 PM

Time kills game we players are children and toys that do not work have no interest for us very quickly...:grin:

proton45

06-03-2012, 05:34 PM

50% of the responses aint worth reading anyway...

JTDawg

06-03-2012, 05:40 PM

rose colored glasses comes to mind.. as in people will see what they want to see.. for all you know your in the eye of the hurricane! ;) LMAO you really think people are not posting for lack of anger, The real reason is we know your fingers are on the ban button,The game is broke! nothing works right! sound ,fm dm . the list just goes on an on! I to don't fly it much anymore ,but what do you expect after 14 15 months. I've been telling the same lies as this forum since clod came out. (don't worry its got a few bugs but they will fix it!!) But they haven't, for everything they think they fixed we get more bugs ,The game is like a big internet worm, always making more problems,While saying they are fixing it, Then every friday we wait an wait ,hoping they can fix it before ,there are no more players for this game, Which is happening right before our eyes ,wake up an smell the coffee!!! An now it's wait for big news lol, Cann't wait to hear the new scam that will be put upon us. I see how it works here , If we buck you ban us If we tell the truth you ban us, we have to walk your way or it's the highway!!!!! What is wrong with that picture? A friend of mine summed it up the best , If you were going to buy a new car ,a lawn mower , what ever and the salesman said , we can have the car towed to your house ,but we don't have a engine for anouther year or 2 ,would you still buy it!!!! Don't get me all wrong here , I really liked clod ,but my faith in 1c is growing smaller each day,from waiting for 60 friday updates, with all is going as planned ,Really they had it planned out like this, For each patch we get we go 3 steps back an always a dummied down version from where it started !!!! The truth the hole truth an nothing but the truth. All we want after this long is a game that works!! we want what was advertized about this game ,not a crap shoot

addman

06-03-2012, 05:40 PM

I monitor the boards on a daily basis but as someone mentioned in an earlier post, there isn't much to post about ATM really. As far as the game goes, haven't even bothered installing the hot-fix to be honest, might uninstall it to make room for my ever growing FSX folder. Those SSD's sure fill up fast, especially with A2A planes.:) I'll wait for the retail patch and see if it will re-kindle any interest.

There are many different virtual skies to roam, why limit yourself to just one?
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7101/7328902230_c1e0dcbebb_b.jpg

Plt Off JRB Meaker

06-03-2012, 05:41 PM

However, just checking the ATAG Allies vs Axis Server we have 42 total online flying this instant; 20 are flying Red (mostly Spitfire IIa's and one brave soul flying a Rotol)

Yup,that'll be me in the Rotol then Snapper:grin:............just love the old crate.I appreciate I'm sometimes the only bugger up there in a coffin with wings:lol:

Old-Banger

06-03-2012, 05:44 PM

Time kills game we players are children and toys that do not work have no interest for us very quickly...:grin:

That may well be the case for some.

Speaking for myself I find I am quite prepared to invest time and some effort to get the most I can from this game, even in its present state.

People who care about such projects as this will see it through, if at all possible. After all, are there really any alternative WW2 flight sims other than this and IL2 1946 out there at the moment?

ACE-OF-ACES

06-03-2012, 05:44 PM

With a successful patch players old and new will come bounding back like a......wet puppy! :)

http://www.pbase.com/daverilstone/image/143751797.jpg
Agreed 100%

ACE-OF-ACES

06-03-2012, 05:46 PM

The real reason is we know your fingers are on the ban button
Oh god.. if only I had that power! :)

Flanker35M

06-03-2012, 06:10 PM

S!

People are absent for whatever reason. For me it is the summer! Why sit inside pressing F5 or play something when you can go out and check out babes on beaches(when weather warms a bit), have a BBQ + beverages with friends and all that..For me summer is low profile regarding gaming anyway :) Autumn is another matter then..and I guess we have got far more progress in CoD then as well.

As of patching or fixing the game devs can look in mirror. What you did or did not do in the past is in front of you sooner or later ;)

Blackdog_kt

06-03-2012, 07:14 PM

Well, this board is getting more and more quiet as can be seen by same posts staying far up on the list even without getting any replies... Last friday update has only 8 pages or so...

Lack of small fixes and a feeling that nothing is progressing...
This my friends are how you lose your customers. Poor Blacksix has been given the task of keeping us updated, but more often than not he has nothing to provide to us... Why isnt Luthier here to keep us motivated? Or some of the programmers?

Why does everything have to be released in mega patches? How about one small patch for sound updates (fix the flyby sounds of the 109 and 110? One for the spitfire throttle? Or one for lack of ground friction for the spits?
Or one for grass? One for Trees? One for Clouds? One to give back the damage visuals for small caliber fire? One for hit flashes? List goes on...

Ah well, who am i kidding... That would be logic and customer support...

Dont get me wrong, the game has potential, but lack of support makes people move on and once they have, its difficult to get them back.

I don't know about others, but personally speaking that doesn't apply to me. I was one of the most frequent posters here and spent quite some time collecting tips and tricks, how to guides, etc and compiling them into single-thread FAQ documents after the initial release, so that people could find workarounds for what didn't work in the sim and get to flying.

The reason i'm not active is not the sim. It's in a far better state than when i was highly active, which makes it all the more exciting for me to get to grips with it.

My problem is other real life commitments that limit my free time, as well as the fact that some people, when given pointers on how to make things work will not follow it but just go "i shouldn't have to do that in the first place", which makes me feel like i'm wasting my limited time trying to make their game playable, instead of just flying it myself.

So you could say it's a mix of real-life and certain behaviour trends in the community that are to blame for my inactivity. If i had more free time i would just stick to discussing things with the people who are actually interested in making things work, instead of those speculating on the reason for their current state and all would be fine for me :-P

Also, it's summer and i prefer to go out for a cup of coffee or a couple of beers with friends instead of sitting in my room with the PC radiating generous amounts of heat due to the high processing load of gaming software, plus i bought a used motorbike from a friend and i might spend some time riding soon.

As for the state of the forums, i really like it now. The amount of repetitive posts is down and the ones who most frequently engaged in them are probably bored and have moved on.
For me this means i can check the forums once a week when i have free time and i'll still see the interesting stuff, whereas previously it was buried under an avalanche of separate threads dealing with the same repetitive discussions and i had to waste extra time separating the wheat from the chaff.

After all, i was never of the opinion that discussion for the sake of it is doing any good, especially in an "insulated" media like this that doesn't facilitate proper face to face contact between participants. Ok, in a pub you might talk just to talk because it's a social thing, but here? A forum to me is a place where people post if they have something to say that interests people who gravitate to the same topic. If there is nothing new to say, there is no reason to create new posts/threads.

This helps keep the whole thing clean and people can use it as a directory of relevant topics that are easy to find, not buried under a pile of repetitive discussions that are essentially one topic that could be served under one single thread.

As you can see i don't mind difference of opinions, i just have an opinion myself and i don't believe that talking for the sake of talking is any use. I come here to see a selection of topics, then i click on whatever interests me and if i have something to add i'll do so. I don't come here to see 15 separate threads with the same topic, where the same people post, dominating the entire forum and preventing anyone else from speaking their mind through sheer volume of repetition: it's like running ECM against the rest of the users, limits their freedom and it's a display of pure arrogance and inconsideration.

I'm a fan of having one thread for each discussion topic, so that anyone can participate or ignore it based on their own volition. What we had before was equivalent to someone reaching out across the internet, strapping me to a chair and shouting to me "here is my version of the story, you WILL hear it". It's too clockwork orange for my taste. It was also the main reason i accepted a moderator position, so that i could prevent it from happening: select posts on the same topic, move to single thread, done.

Finally, in regards to the patches i agree that smaller patches fixing individual issues would be nice to have. I also understand however that due to remaking the graphics and sound engines, it's not only that the manpower is all taken up by those projects but maybe it doesn't make sense to correct small issues until the groundwork is finalized, because they might have to go back and do it all over again after the engine changes.

I thought things like that were totally separated in code, but the more we learn in the university i'm currently attending, the more i can appreciate the mess that is tracking the consequences of one small change in the code across an entire application. So i reserve judgement and hope they have a good reason for patching things in bigger batches.

To sum up, i'm way too busy with other stuff currently, so i like the fact that i can come here once a week and just get the gist of it all without having to trawl through a mountain of repetitive "forum dogfight" posts anymore. It's great.

Madfish

06-03-2012, 08:20 PM

Don't forget Diablo 3, many wana see error 37s :rolleyes:

BTW. 8421 Downloads of the mini patch (in this forum) is not a small number, people is out there and watching. ;)

Where did you get this number from? :-P It appears to be a good guess though.

From my server (senect.com) it was downloaded around 1950 times. From airwarfare.com it was downloaded around 3012 times. Those two alone are almost 5k and there have been other sources. And then there's also the russian version.

So all in all I guess it's around 10k. A decent number for just a beta patch indeed but I believe it reflects probably around 60-75% of the active playerbase. I don't believe there are many who didn't try the beta patch.

AKA_Tenn

06-03-2012, 10:23 PM

I'm not sure people are moving on... because there's nothing to move on to... i think its more like people are waiting... for something better... whether it be a patch for cliffs, or a totally new game makes no difference... but waiting for something better.

Dano

06-03-2012, 10:25 PM

GF_Mastiff

06-03-2012, 11:31 PM

just waiting on a better mouse trap.....

Feathered_IV

06-04-2012, 12:55 AM

Well, the MMO seems like 1c's last attempt to regain some of the money they have sunk into Maddox Games and the clod over the last five years. For me, it looks like the writing is on the wall for the Il-2 series. This radical change of direction coupled with Maddox Games' seemingly limitless capacity for fiasco does not make me confident that they can accomplish this latest venture on time, on budget or up to snuff.

If the MMO project is a standalone title, one can expect our current sim to be slowly sidelined (as is happening already). And one might also pause to consider how if even the most basic elements of offline and multiplayer gameplay are escaping the current developers, how do they possibly expect to master the complexities of scores, ranking, upgrades and purchases that an MMO demands?

I still check in here regularly. The habit of many years is hard to break. These days the biggest update that I'm hoping to see is the one that says, Under New Management.

BadAim

06-04-2012, 02:09 AM

It already is under new management! That's the problem, there is a massive mess for Luthier to clean up, and it's just starting to bear fruit. Like so many others have said, go play with the dog outside, check out the beach, have a beer with your real life friends. The patient is not dead, just in intensive care. The old girl will be back.

TUSA/TX-Gunslinger

06-04-2012, 05:56 AM

Well, just so you know. I check these boards at least 3 to 4 times a week. That is, when there is something to read :)

There, the dead have spoken. Happy?

Fenice_1965

06-04-2012, 10:13 AM

One big issue is the hardware requirements.
The biggest part of the community cannot afford a 400,00= euro vidcard to play this game.
Many of them are part of the old IL2 community, used to the totally smooth flying that sim has, simply because IL2 on the contrary, is played today with hardware always exceeding its requirements.
They're not willing to invest money on a compromise vidcard to play CLOD with low FPS or with a graphic similar or worst than IL2.
I think that many players will shift to CLOD with the new product. At that time cards with actual top performances will be mid price and the structure of the sim will be competitive with IL2 in terms of aircraft variety and freedom from bugs, FM issues etc.
JMHO

jimbop

06-04-2012, 10:37 AM

Just waiting for 'the patch'... I had a problem with my controller immediately after an extended trip overseas. The thought of repairing it all just to continue bombing the wrong way (to compensate for the broken bomber mechanics) tired me out. Wake me when the patch arrives!

5./JG27.Farber

06-04-2012, 11:19 AM

What the hell are you all talking about? Were running a MP campaign! :-P

http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2011/02/punched-in-the-face-zoidberg.jpg

von Pilsner

06-04-2012, 11:28 AM

Not going anywhere, I've been hanging out in the FMB forum and learning some C#. I converted my AI Tweak a bit (it works better now) and integrated it into 41Sqn_Banks' awesome IL2DCE campaign generator (not ready for release yet though) and am doing a few tweaks to the code for SP (only) play.

So far I have a rough 4-phase semi-dynamic campaign with improved AI in the works. I am hoping to be done in 2 mos. or so :D

http://bs.beckament.net/files_pub/FlightSim/IL2CloD/BoBDCE/001.png

http://bs.beckament.net/files_pub/FlightSim/IL2CloD/BoBDCE/002.png

http://bs.beckament.net/files_pub/FlightSim/IL2CloD/BoBDCE/003.png

There just isn't much to talk about at the moment, but I think most of us are still here... Oh, I am also testing out a really nice static campaign (not mine) that should be available soon.

jimbop

06-04-2012, 11:50 AM

Farber, maybe I am wrong but I thought the bombsight problems weren't fixed. As always, Blackdog_kt says it best:

No need to make new videos actually. If we could get English susbtitles for these it would be just fine.

Any German speaking members of the community willing to come up with a transcript and translation? If someone translated this, he could then send it to the youtube uploader to make it into on-screen annotations.

On the Lofte bombsight issues excuse me for asking again, but i would really like a clear answer from someone who tested it.because i don't have a clear answer yet.

Up till now, there was a mix-up between imperial and metric units in the sights: for some algorithms user inputs when calibrating the sight were treated as metric, for some others as imperial.

One work-around was to bomb by converting speed from km/h to mph and input that into the sight. This method results in correct release point calculation because that algorithm "thinks" the speed we enter is in mph, so if we convert our speed to mph it will work correctly.

However, it results in incorrect tracking of the target, because the other algorithm that pans the sight when automation is engaged "thinks" the speed we enter is in km/h.

So, if we convert to mph the bombs will hit what the crosshairs aims at, but the crosshairs drift off the target and the player has to constantly disable automation, recenter crosshairs and re-enable automation.

If we don't convert our speed but input it in km/h directly, the sight doesn't drift off the target but the release point is wrong.

Has this been corrected? If it has then He111 here i come (at least until the 88 gets a working gyrocompass, in which case you can level bomb with that one too).

It will be a blast to fly these properly. The 88 can't climb that easily, but you have the option of dive bombing. The He111 can't dive bomb but you can fly higher.

phoenix1963

06-04-2012, 02:05 PM

Only those not living in Britain could possibly think it is summer yet!
56RAF_phoenix

5./JG27.Farber

06-04-2012, 02:45 PM

Farber, maybe I am wrong but I thought the bombsight problems weren't fixed. As always, Blackdog_kt says it best:

I think you mean Jimbop... Obviously my picture of zoidberg was to distracting for you. :-P

HessleReich

06-05-2012, 11:02 AM

Hey all, my two cents, Many people have moved on from the forum "TO PLAY THE GAME" now many of us can... I for one have spent more time in the cockpit rather than on here.

As Farber mentioned MP Campaigns!

addman

06-05-2012, 12:06 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovHqgxV-3qw&feature=related

ParaB

06-05-2012, 01:11 PM

Hey all, my two cents, Many people have moved on from the forum "TO PLAY THE GAME" now many of us can...

I doubt it. I'm happy for everyone enjoying CloD but in my gaming group CloD is officially dead. Most people don't even bother to check the forums anymore because they're fed up with yet another "something totally unexpected just happened which prevented us from releasingyaddayadda..."

5./JG27.Farber

06-05-2012, 01:28 PM

I doubt it. I'm happy for everyone enjoying CloD but in my gaming group CloD is officially dead. Most people don't even bother to check the forums anymore because they're fed up with yet another "something totally unexpected just happened which prevented us from releasingyaddayadda..."

We have actually grown because of clodo, maybe because we have stuck in there and crossed over virtually on release. - I dont know. We have around 14 active members however one of the big things keeping people away from training is there isn't much action going on between squads because of the problems. We used to fight 26 times a year in old IL2, in clod in the last year we have fought only 8 times, well heres year two of Clodo and our multisquad campaign starts on the 17th, theres around 5 squads per side and my Staffel members promise at least 10 will show up... So its looking up from here.

6S.Tamat

06-05-2012, 01:47 PM

Icarus1

06-05-2012, 03:34 PM

Most of my friends who are old IL-2 fans tell me they have removed iCoD from their hard drive as I have done. They have either moved on to something else or are back to IL-2.

I don't even check the Friday updates anymore. If I see a new version released on Steam I might reinstall it and try it, but I won't hold my breath. Its a damn shame.

catito14

06-05-2012, 03:46 PM

SiThSpAwN

06-05-2012, 05:26 PM

I've noticed the slowdown in the forums as well, but there are alot of factors, but I am sure the devs know that they have limited time to button things up before people move on to other things... the big thing they have going for them is they are really the only kid on the block for a sim of this era...

5./JG27.Farber

06-05-2012, 06:02 PM

I've noticed the slowdown in the forums as well, but there are alot of factors...

Yea but really some of its what you make of it... In terms of the indivduals machine we were lucky, 9 out of ten of our squads machines could run it when we switched over... There are still problems but we are soldiering on! Yea we all blow up sometimes and lose our rag but as you point out, what else is there? :rolleyes:

SiThSpAwN

06-05-2012, 06:07 PM

but as you point out, what else is there? :rolleyes:

It's why I am still here... :)

Codex

06-05-2012, 11:30 PM

I have to agree with most here. I do visit this forum each day after getting in to work and I've noticed a real slow down in activity, but ot really isn't a true indication of the health of CloD.

I've personally lost interest in CloD, I feel like we bought a half finished product and if you look at the overall state of things, nothing much really has changed. It's good that we're getting the updates and I'm hoping the final patch will draw me back, but for now I'm finding the P-51 in DCS much more enjoyable, and there is much more activity to read up on.

One thing is for sure though, with BoR (or what ever the next CloD episode will be from 1C), I wont be so egar to part with my $$$ for when it comes out (SE or not), I'm going to sit on the fence before I buy.

Chivas

06-05-2012, 11:53 PM

It might matter if there were other decent WW2 combat flight sims on the horizon, but I have yet to see one and doubt anyone will be developing one anytime soon.

If and When the sim is fixed most will be back in droves, and those that don't come back will be easily replaced by others.

philip.ed

06-06-2012, 12:05 AM

Roll on the SDK, I say.

Codex

06-06-2012, 12:07 AM

But its sad and scary at the same time to think that the only thing saving CloD at the moment is the fact that there is nothing else out there.

AKA_Tenn

06-06-2012, 05:20 AM

it's sadder more than scary...

games like clod don't make a lot of money for developers and their labels (EA, 1C, etc...) so what really counts is how bad the developers want the game.... what i mean is...

if its not a labor of love, and the devs are not perfectionists, then these niche games end up being terrible... cause their in it for a quick buck...

they should have known from the beginning that almost all people don't have the patience or aptitude for flying at all...

I'll be buying any expantions this game comes up with just because there's nothing else too.

Skoshi Tiger

06-06-2012, 06:42 AM

Roll on the SDK, I say.

A big +1!

There are a lot of highly talented people out there in our community (Me not being apart of that crowd) all itching to make content for this sim.

It would be a bit like the cambrian explosion. Some of it will be good and survive and evolve, others will fade away and disapear. But good or bad it all deserves a chance.

Cheers!

Sandstone

06-06-2012, 06:56 AM

Given the rate of progress on the game so far, I doubt if we'll ever see an SDK.

David198502

06-06-2012, 08:18 AM

Roll on the SDK, I say.

+1

but luthier mentioned one year ago, that the SDK is almost ready for release.just as he mentioned, directly after release of the game, that DX11 is their top priority, or just as he mentioned, that the 2d sunlit background clouds are ready, or just as he mentioned that the graphics rework is almost done 7months ago...

what was really achieved of these promises/statements......not one

so dont count on it in the near future.

Skoshi Tiger

06-06-2012, 08:35 AM

Hopefully the Developers are using SDK to create the BOM expansion. It could be that is is not mature enough to let mugs like us work with it.

Concidering the negativity displayed by the community I think they're well within their rights to withhold anything that is not ready to be released.

Lets face it, we've had the full mission builder for a while and only a small number of people are dedicated enough to build and release missions for it.

We can only hope.

6S.Manu

06-06-2012, 09:47 AM

A big +1!

There are a lot of highly talented people out there in our community (Me not being apart of that crowd) all itching to make content for this sim.

It would be a bit like the cambrian explosion. Some of it will be good and survive and evolve, others will fade away and disapear. But good or bad it all deserves a chance.

Cheers!

I claim it since when CloD was still SoW: 1C needed to develop some great engines (graphic, FM, DM) and only 1-2 planes (Su26) leaving all the other object to other developers (as DCS is doing now).

SDK should be a map builder + FM and DM debugger (to test if DM is really working).

Feathered_IV

06-06-2012, 09:49 AM

Don't pin your hopes on an SDK. It's the silver bullet they will never get around to making.

Skoshi Tiger

06-06-2012, 12:00 PM

Don't pin your hopes on an SDK. It's the silver bullet they will never get around to making.

We saw video's of the map builder years ago. In my opinion they'd be silly if they don't already have a set of software tools (which is really what the SDK is) to help in the creation of aircraft (and other objects) and the associated flight and damage models.

But even if they already have them, it does not mean that they are, or will ever be suitable for release to the public.

There isn't any silver bullets, like you say, and even with the right tools making maps, planes and other objects is a very time consuming process. I expect that getting them right is even more complex!

Cheers!

tintifaxl

06-06-2012, 12:30 PM

Don't pin your hopes on an SDK. It's the silver bullet they will never get around to making.

They have no need to release an SDK with the MMO on the horizon.

carguy_

06-06-2012, 02:35 PM

But even if they already have them, it does not mean that they are, or will ever be suitable for release to the public.

There isn't any silver bullets, like you say, and even with the right tools making maps, planes and other objects is a very time consuming process. I expect that getting them right is even more complex!
!
Let`s remember that the reason for releasing the SDK is dividing CloD into two versions, namely the open and closed. The first is said to use all the abilities of the community while keeping mod lovers from cheating in closed-code games. That was theory.

Now I don`t think they said how it will be with Steam. It is great that a modded game should receive a VAC ban, although if the open code version users are not able to lay online then what`s the point in playing anyway?

GraveyardJimmy

06-06-2012, 02:38 PM

Now I don`t think they said how it will be with Steam. It is great that a modded game should receive a VAC ban, although if the open code version users are not able to lay online then what`s the point in playing anyway?

Depends on how the game implements it. Red Orchestra 1 uses VAC and you can play on modded servers- the server allows mods then you dont get a ban for using files that are modified. i imagine it would work the same.

VAC bans are engine- based. IL2 CoD uses its own engine so the devs would figure out how to implement it when using mods, it might be that servers can't run it and they make it so that servers with no mods dont allow people with modified files to join, rather than outright banning them. The system allows for mods if it is implemented correctly.

Chivas

06-06-2012, 05:13 PM

They have no need to release an SDK with the MMO on the horizon.

The game engine was designed to facilitate a number of different ventures and revenue streams, just because the developers mention developing an MMO doesn't mean all the other ventures and income sources have been canceled.

robtek

06-06-2012, 05:17 PM

The game engine was designed to facilitate a number of different ventures and revenue streams, just because the developers mention developing an MMO doesn't mean all the other ventures and income sources have been canceled.

Oh yes it does, if one is a doom'n'gloomer. :D :D :D

MadTommy

06-06-2012, 06:16 PM

What is this talk of a MMO? Can someone link me to this reference. I really don't understand the concept of a MMO & Clod.

MMO stands for MASSIVE multiplayer online, if i'm not mistaken. Where will this massive MP community come from? Confused. :confused:

+1

but luthier mentioned one year ago, that the SDK is almost ready for release.just as he mentioned, directly after release of the game, that DX11 is their top priority, or just as he mentioned, that the 2d sunlit background clouds are ready, or just as he mentioned that the graphics rework is almost done 7months ago...

what was really achieved of these promises/statements......not one

so dont count on it in the near future.

Depressingly true.

Force10

06-06-2012, 06:19 PM

Oh yes it does, if one is a doom'n'gloomer. :D :D :D

Just what has 1C done to make us feel chipper? The doom and gloom comes from their failure to fix anything in this game. It's utterly pointless to start talking about other revenue streams and expansions when the original game is still unplayable and unfixed. They expect folks to get excited about future releases? I'm sure robtek is looking forward spending another couple years on the forum talking about how they are going to fix things but a lot of us would like them to actually fix it instead of just talking about it.

Chivas

06-06-2012, 06:38 PM

Just what has 1C done to make us feel chipper? The doom and gloom comes from their failure to fix anything in this game. It's utterly pointless to start talking about other revenue streams and expansions when the original game is still unplayable and unfixed. They expect folks to get excited about future releases? I'm sure robtek is looking forward spending another couple years on the forum talking about how they are going to fix things but a lot of us would like them to actually fix it instead of just talking about it.

Again its the game engine thats not working properly. I'm sure the publishers/investors/developers are well aware they will not be able fix COD or sell, Sequels or MMO's until the game engine is fixed. The fact that they are even mentioning developing an MMO is a good thing as it suggests they still believe they can fix the game engine, which is the fix for everything else.

Chivas

06-06-2012, 06:40 PM

What is this talk of a MMO? Can someone link me to this reference. I really don't understand the concept of a MMO & Clod.

MMO stands for MASSIVE multiplayer online, if i'm not mistaken. Where will this massive MP community come from? Confused. :confused:

Depressingly true.

The MMO is just another possible use for the new IL-2 game engine, if they ever get the engine to work properly.

MadTommy

06-06-2012, 08:01 PM

The MMO is just another possible use for the new IL-2 game engine, if they ever get the engine to work properly.

Okay thanks, so it's talk of a new game based of the game engine.

Sounds like good news for clod, anything to help support the development of the sim has to be good.

senseispcc

06-07-2012, 07:01 AM

Commercially it could be a good idea if it works but for the simulation players it could be a very bad one. To make a MMO the game is simplified and made unrealistic to the point it has no interest to the “serious” simulation gamer. Let us wait and see.:!:

catito14

06-07-2012, 03:30 PM

B6 can't said to me if the BoM will be an expansion of the CloD or an MMO .... that´s my greatest fear

MB_Avro_UK

06-07-2012, 08:50 PM

Hi all,

If CoD was 100% perfect, it would be 99% better than anything else out there.

Support the future:cool:

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Force10

06-07-2012, 09:31 PM

Hi all,

If CoD was 100% perfect, it would be 99% better than anything else out there.

Support the future:cool:

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

If the future is releasing half baked, non-functioning alphas and then moving on to sequels before the original release is at least 3/4s baked, then you can count me out. (probably a lot of others as well)

bongodriver

06-07-2012, 09:34 PM

COD wasn't released as an alpha, it worked for half the people but the devs wanted to fix it for the other half and ended up re writing the code and now it is an alpha.

robtek

06-07-2012, 09:35 PM

Force10, with such a limited ability to see possibilities and so strong ties to the past you are already counted out.

Chivas

06-07-2012, 09:52 PM

If the future is releasing half baked, non-functioning alphas and then moving on to sequels before the original release is at least 3/4s baked, then you can count me out. (probably a lot of others as well)

I doubt the development will be in business long enough to complete any Sequel unless the developers fix the game engine. That said if things continue to go badly, the investors could again force the development to release what they have completed for the Sequel, and then quietly shut the development down to atleast get a small portion of their investment back. BUT I'm sure the investors are not stupid enough to think many people will buy blindly this time.

BigC208

06-07-2012, 10:12 PM

I doubt the development will be in business long enough to complete any Sequel unless the developers fix the game engine. That said if things continue to go badly, the investors could again force the development to release what they have completed for the Sequel, and then quietly shut the development down to atleast get a small portion of their investment back. BUT I'm sure the investors are not stupid enough to think many people will buy blindly this time.

If they release the sequel in the state Il2 CloD is now I'll buy it. Just not untill it hit's the Steam bargain bin at $9.95. I'm enjoying it in it's current form but could do without the crashes, stutters and dismall SLI performance. Why do RoF and DCS run like greased lightning without stressing (one!)my gtx 680 and Clod struggles along while the GPU goes all out? Almost hoping they somehow merge and get all the talent onboard with RoF. RoF: WWII edition. Don't get me wrong, I'm still keeping my fingers crossed hoping that they eventualy get it fixed and continue the series. Just not holding my breath anymore.

6S.Manu

06-07-2012, 10:16 PM

COD wasn't released as an alpha, it worked for half the people but the devs wanted to fix it for the other half and ended up re writing the code and now it is an alpha.

There is no difference. It's alpha now with the new code, it was alpha at the release.

Otherwise this new version should run worser then the former one.

Feathered_IV

06-07-2012, 10:19 PM

I'm half expecting another paid addon for 1946 somewhere down the track if things go very poorly for Maddox Games.

bongodriver

06-07-2012, 10:28 PM

There is no difference. It's alpha now with the new code, it was alpha at the release.

Otherwise this new version should run worser then the former one.

But it wasn't an alpha on release.....sure some people liked to call it an alpha.

why should it run worse? it's an alpha version of an improving graphics engine.

Codex

06-07-2012, 10:32 PM

I'm half expecting another paid addon for 1946 somewhere down the track if things go very poorly for Maddox Games.

Maybe they should hire the Daidalos Team to help out with CloD :)

JG5_emil

06-07-2012, 10:42 PM

catito14

06-07-2012, 10:48 PM

I'm playing ARMA II at the moment and what amazes me is the speed of the updates that come for their Beta patch, it's almost every day.

Anyway I've done my part supporting CLOD. I bought it, I played it but I don't enjoy it in it's current form. Good luck to them.

Well .... quite bad example you chose for the comparison ... ArmA 2 is the second game worst optimized ever in the history of the games (the first one was "Armed Assault" lol). Even now, with 3 expansions, a lot of patches, the game still doesn´t run smooth and is full with all kind of bugs (plenty of them solved by the community).

LoBiSoMeM

06-07-2012, 10:54 PM

Well .... quite bad example you chose for the comparison ... ArmA 2 is the second game worst optimized ever in the history of the games (the first one was "Armed Assault" lol).

No, IL-2: Cliffs Of Dover deserves this title... ;)

SEE

06-08-2012, 12:42 AM

What needs to be said has been said countless number of times so I guess the forum will be a bit quiet. I have been enjoying and rediscovering IL1946 while waiting for the official update to be finished but still enjoy the occaisional sortie on ATAG.....best of both worlds.

Somewhere between CLOD and IL946 is my perfect Combat Sim but both have a special appeal of their own. Its nice to jump into something different and takes the impatience out of waiting for CloD to go the next level.

I just hope the next official update resolves many of the long standing issues, if it doesn't then I think some of CloDs' loyal support will drift away.

Rowddy

06-08-2012, 09:06 AM

better this way then 500 pages with trolls and whinning :cool:

6S.Manu

06-08-2012, 10:21 AM

But it wasn't an alpha on release.....sure some people liked to call it an alpha.

why should it run worse? it's an alpha version of an improving graphics engine.

It depends on your definition of Alpha: to me, as developer, alpha stage is when the application is quite finished and you do internal testing to pinpoint plain and clear bugs.

The stutters were mostly raised by a wrong texture management... why didn't the developers look at that during the internal alpha stage? Wasn't stutters a evident issue?

Instead, Beta testers are usually external users to the developer office: this does not mean that they have to discover plain bugs, but the hidden ones.. the ones who appear in deteminated situations (for example an exception raised when 80 players are connecting to a single server... difficult to catch it during the internal testing)

I say it should be run worser now as it's a new engine, not a fix of the older one... and by "run" I mean the presence of bugs (because of the definition of alpha above)... Of course if you focus yourself on FPS it should run better than the old one...

I still think that the software has been thrown out of the office in a hurry, after not enough hours of alpha testing... can't know the reason of this.

Skoshi Tiger

06-08-2012, 10:43 AM

74 people waiting for an update and still hours to go. Considering that Obsesive-Compulsive are only 0.1% of any given population I'ld say there are a quite a few people that are still interested in this sim!!! ;)

Chromius

06-08-2012, 03:22 PM

Well, in this time I have upgraded DCS Blackshark to Blackshark 2 and acquired DCS A-10 and Arma II and Iron Front Invasion 1944.

With DCS world and DCS Combined Arms on the horizon I am now more exited over the future of DCS than Clod and its expansions. DCS is offering too much to not want to convert to the modern battlefield. Frankly for me personally, the way that this Clod franchise has been handled in the past couple years and the denial of it being mostly unplayable and broken, from a MP standpoint has left me with a sour taste over it.

Will it stop me from continuing with it, probably not as there are no current WW2 flight sim options. Will I ever feel as strongly about it and its community as IL-2, most likely not. Is it the reason I can no longer go back to IL-2... yes (I am not completely into eye candy but IL-2 is very dated and the new features promised for clod were sorely needed.) And has it caused me to consider the modern battlefield sims as a more useful source of my simulation entertainment, yes. (SH5 certainly did not help though modded now its decent.)

What I am curious about is if there were approx. 10,000 total downloads of the hot fix from various locales, and there are say 100 people online total at peak times, what percent would be mp and what percent is sp? I would also think that once the final patch is released and things are working acceptably others will come back after reading the results here, and slowly some of the IL-2 players will be come over to Clod.

And like an idiot I will buy the expansion at full price even if I do not play it just to support the dream that this will all work as envisioned when Clod was started by Maddox and crew.

JG5_emil

06-08-2012, 04:27 PM

Well .... quite bad example you chose for the comparison ... ArmA 2 is the second game worst optimized ever in the history of the games (the first one was "Armed Assault" lol). Even now, with 3 expansions, a lot of patches, the game still doesn´t run smooth and is full with all kind of bugs (plenty of them solved by the community).

Plays smooth as sink for me 60 fps with everything on highest level AA AF etc and at 2550x1440 resolution :) net code is being worked on.

My point is that I supported CLOD and I will probably buy BOM but I'm not enjoying playing CLOD in it's current form especially the lack of coops. I wish them all the luck but I'm not playing it at the moment and probably wont until the next patch. Even then I would expect I'll pop on to see what's changed but I doubt it will have the improvements I need to enjoy it.

With regards to ARMA they have a beta out at the moment and I am not kidding...literally every day there is a new one with more fixes and features. Isn't that amazing? Every day!

1.JaVA_Sharp

06-08-2012, 05:36 PM

you know that there are plenty of other games and flightsims out there to try?

I've spend time in

ROF
DCS P51
Arma2
Iron Front
That free Wing Commander game.

And I've enjoyed them all. Wish I could say the same about CLOD, but I can't. I'm waiting to see if it will grow on me but in the meantime there's a lot more games and sims to play out there.

senseispcc

06-09-2012, 07:14 AM

Flanker35M

06-09-2012, 07:38 AM

S!

Will get Iron Front, even it is a bit buggy at the moment but too much interest in it to pass :) World Of Tanks is going downhill fast, played at test servers a lot and can see why they do what they do to Russian tanks. And their devs being openly anti-German sentimented adds to it. Go figure.

Diablo III is quite fun when you play as coop, alone a grind sort of. A bit annoying is the difficulty level change, adds a ton of HP and makes enemies move like on steroids while you do not change much. Or I am just too slow for these games :D

DCS has features coming that spark interest even within ranks of real armed forces pilots. And that requires something as they for sure know their business. JTAC + A-10C = Pure Win! :D More WW2 planes to match the P51D and more fun in the horizon as well :)

What would be great is that a developer could make a full blown WW2 tank sim. There are none out. And by that I mean not only late war Tigers or Pershings or whatever but the early war as well. Dream come true would be a tank sim expanding over the WW2 and even Korea :)

But now is summer so not really much time to sit by the computer and STILL waiting for my TM Warthog to come :( Sent it out 2 months ago soon :(

proton45

06-09-2012, 09:43 PM

better this way then 500 pages with trolls and whinning :cool:

Thats my feeling as well...I remember when the original "IL2 Sturmovik" came out years ago & their was a lot of obnoxious activity in the forums. The primary tone was aggression, as opposed to wining, but none the less it was very off-putting. I stepped away for a year or so (honestly I dont remember how long it was), and when I came back the crowd had thinned down to a crew of truly good people. Somehow the tone and spirit of the forum had improved as the ranks thinned.

I kind of miss those days... ;)

priller26

06-11-2012, 09:53 PM

Icebear

06-12-2012, 06:26 AM

Iron front is enjoyable...that being said, no matter how good a game is, people will eventually move on to something that peaks their interest and takes advantage of new hardware/graphic capabilities. When something just works poorly, with no real fix in site, people move on faster. August, and summer holidays for most Russians (Moscovites) is quickly approaching, if nothing new appears before then, then maybe this fall. If not, I assume this place will become rather deserted.

I don't think so. This place is too funny to become deserted. They will rush out the sequel and we will all forget about Cliffs of Dover...at least the ones who are really willing to buy the sequel.

And if the sequel will base on Cliffs of Dover there will enough topics of conversation for another "two weeks". ;)

Flanker35M

06-12-2012, 06:38 PM

S!

The circle will never cease ;) New sim and same old arguments :)

AKA_Tenn

06-13-2012, 02:47 AM

Playing a game is like going down a stair in the beginning i:-xt is all fun and you go down fast waiting for the breakfast downstairs but if only silence and no good smell of coffee or hot chocolate is waiting for you the last step just before you let go the stair is the most disappointing just like a game that promise a lot, give a lot but delivers not what was hoped for.

Potential does not equal greatness, expectations do not equal results.
and no matter how fast you go down the stairs it doesn't change the fact that unless you make your coffee yourself, you should always be prepared for disappointment.

in this case, the analogy is more like... for me at least... i'll keep voicing that I want this stuff, hopefully someone will see and act... if enough other people voice their opinions too... so I try to keep an opened mind about this game, and others...