Multiplayer CTD Server/Object issue?

[SEE]

I can manage but just around 5-10 minutes on ATAG No1 then freeze and LE crash with multiple 'object Null' errors generated in the Log file.

Switch to Kampverband13 No 1 server and I am able to to test the alpha patch without problems. This server uses the Channel map and lots of AI but few players and weather is clear - no clouds.

It would interesting to see if others with MP CTD problems find this server less problematic.

[macro]

I had this prob till i turned on ssao, grass roads and shadows. Try this?

[5./JG27.Farber]

I have same problem see...

[MadBlaster]

SEE, maybe this:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=422565&postcount=360

I'll add, I think what he means by defensive programming is that the exceptions should be 'gracefully handled'. The program shouldn't just CTD. It should have an error handler and back out/unwind to the point before the error occurred and continue onward.

[SEE]

I have tried everything believe me except SSAO so will give that a try. But I don't have to do anything regards settings for Kampverband13 No 1 server (not No 2, I CTD on that one).

[5./JG27.Farber]

I just did it SEE, went in ATAG and had a massive brawl with 5 hurris/spits... Fligth was about 30 mins... No CTD.

[Buchon]

That´s really weird, SSAO is just a client side graphic effect, it is present in Single player too but the CTD is a multiplayer issue.

But seeing the bugs unveiled by the new graphic engine maybe the SSAO code is doing something that it should not (while is off).

[JG52Uther]

Doesn't SSAO kill fps though?

[Buchon]

Yep, but SSAO its a very intensive GPU effect usually so I'm not sure if the performance drop is linked to the problem.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Amazingly it seems to be working, no CTD yet.

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/farber82/settings-1.jpg

[macro]

hurrah! see you in the skies!

[SEE]

Glad it worked for you Farber, will have a go later on ATAG. Hope it does the trick for me too!

If SSAO works on ATAG then it poses the question why isn't it needed on the Kampverband server No1?

I can only think that either it's an Objects issue or you need SSAO checked if a server has 'clouds' enabled.

I had the same CTD on Kampverband No 2 server and this also has clouds enabled too....:confused:

[5./JG27.Farber]

Flew for over an hour on ATAG :-P:-P:-P:-P

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/farber82/frames.jpg

Calculating the total frames by deviding them by the average then by 60 for minutes: thats 72 mins...

[JG52Uther]

Is that simply by turning SSAO on?

[SEE]

Yep, SSAO and Shadows enabled worked for me too on ATAG.

I noticed Clouds when I spawned but, as I flew away no clouds were rendered afterwards - perfectly clear all the way to France. On all previous attempts clouds were popping up and then CTD - happy bunny here!

Thanks everyone!

[5./JG27.Farber]

Three cheers for macro! :-P

My squad mate tried the same fix, however the AA had to be set to the same as his cards AA for the same results as me.

[JG52Uther]

Passed it on to Black Six, maybe it will help.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Cool. What about some kind of way of making more people aware? I know I was about ready to kill someone :evil:

[SEE]

Is that simply by turning SSAO on?

I enabled both SSAO and Shadows just in case it was problem with cloud shadows not being rendered - could test that easily but, with those settings, all clouds seemed to disappear after a short while.

If the server does not have Clouds enabled in the realism settings then you don't need SSAO or Shadows enabled.

[Bounder!]

I had this prob till i turned on ssao, grass roads and shadows. Try this?

Heh, very interesting thread... since the alpha/beta patch I've CTD within 10 minutes in virtually every flight on ATAG server 1 (CTD within 10 minutes 12 out of 14 flights)...

...I just enabled SSO, turned grass, roads and shadows on and no CTD! Enjoyed a lovely and smooth 30-40 minute flight. Bit late here to repeat, and I am going to have to repeat a number of times before I discount it as a fluke but here's hoping!

Ta, Bounder

[Hellbender]

Turning on SSAO and Shadow also made my CTDs disappear.

[AbortedMan]

Listen to your logic here...SSAO and shadows on/off is not what is causing the CTDs. I've had mine off and on both resulting in crashes. I'm calling coincidence on your results. If SSAO does have anything to do with a crash it's related to a memory issue most likely, in which case SSAO and other resource eating features just makes it happen quicker because you only have so much memory.

It has something to do with multiplayer, not client side video settings, as I've never gotten any SP crashes, nor has anyone that was testing with me.

Yous guys gotta start using some science while coming to these conclusions. It's getting ridiculous reading the stuff that people are coming up with. It's starting to sound like that Monty Python and the Holy Grail scene where the villagers are trying to figure out if that lady is a witch or not, good god.

[von Brühl]

C'mon, that's no worse that the every sortie delete your cache, spin your monitor all the way around to the right, and shake your mouse 3x routines being given pre-patch! ;)

[JG52Krupi]

Listen to your logic here...SSAO and shadows on/off is not what is causing the CTDs. I've had mine off and on both resulting in crashes. I'm calling coincidence on your results. If SSAO does have anything to do with a crash it's related to a memory issue most likely, in which case SSAO and other resource eating features just makes it happen quicker because you only have so much memory.

It has something to do with multiplayer, not client side video settings, as I've never gotten any SP crashes, nor has anyone that was testing with me.

Yous guys gotta start using some science while coming to these conclusions. It's getting ridiculous reading the stuff that people are coming up with. It's starting to sound like that Monty Python and the Holy Grail scene where the villagers are trying to figure out if that lady is a witch or not, good god.


I agree its very strange and does not make sense but currently the evidence points to SSAO fixing crashes, which ironically kind of underminds the point of the alpha patch :lol:

Perhaps a bug with the settings actually means turning it on turns it off ;) that's the only logical thing I can think of.

[MadBlaster]

Listen to your logic here...SSAO and shadows on/off is not what is causing the CTDs. I've had mine off and on both resulting in crashes. I'm calling coincidence on your results. If SSAO does have anything to do with a crash it's related to a memory issue most likely, in which case SSAO and other resource eating features just makes it happen quicker because you only have so much memory.

It has something to do with multiplayer, not client side video settings, as I've never gotten any SP crashes, nor has anyone that was testing with me.

Yous guys gotta start using some science while coming to these conclusions. It's getting ridiculous reading the stuff that people are coming up with. It's starting to sound like that Monty Python and the Holy Grail scene where the villagers are trying to figure out if that lady is a witch or not, good god.


There might be more than one reason for the CTDs. This one seems different than the memory leak. (i.e., object null errors)

[SEE]

Here's the evidence so far.


I have never managed more than a few minutes before freeze and LE crash on ATAG. This has repeated in excess of 40 attempts using all the variables that can be changed by the user and carrying out all the recommeded procedures other than I never enabled SSAO.

I have the same CTD problms with this alpha when using Kampfverband13 No2 server.

I have no CTD problms with this alpha when testing on Kampfverband13 No1 server.


One difference I noticed, between the servers that cause problems and the one that doesn't, is that 'clouds' are enabled. Now there are more than likely other differences, possibly scripts, objects, etc.

Suddenly, without doing anything other than enabling SSAO and Shadows, I am able to test the alpha on ATAG without the CTD in the first 5 - 10 minutes that I have been experiencing.

The simple fact is that enabling these Video options has worked for me - whatever the reasons or why is arguable, but that is the evidence. I am now able to log in and try the patch untill the next bug rears its ugly head and I CTD.

There are probably a number of causes for CTD in MP but, enabling SSAO and Shadows, have enabled me to test and use the alpha on ATAG which was impossible before.

The devs made it clear that the CTD bugs are proving difficult to identify and have asked the community to help - there are still going to be CTD's and there are still bugs in the engine that will cause them for sure!

[5./JG27.Farber]

MMM I agree with all the statements here...

Your own PC is like an image of a puzzle which you cant see and you have the pieces in your hand of the puzzle and are tasked with making the same puzzle even though you cant see it...

Its wierd. What works for some is a disaster for others and vice versus. However this fix for me has been golden!

[MadBlaster]

speculation/summary

- IIRC, in multi-player, the server is generating the cloud data, not the client, to ensure fair gameplay.

- maybe there is linkage between the client ssao code and server stream-in data w/ to clouds.

- Maybe the "clouds" are the null objects causing the errors. In other words, the stream in data from the server is calling object methods on clouds that have not initialized because client ssao is off and it needs to be on for some reason to create/intialize the server cloud objects (not a client/default cloud when ssao is off and would be irrelevant to the server data).

[SEE]

Reading BS's opening post announcing the beta, the release version (compared to what the devs were working with) had a number of changes and it may well be that these have created unexpected 'issues'. I don't know if that correct or not, but they will be back at work tomorrow and hopefully give us some feedback.

There is a lot of good work in this patch - never been able to have shadows on before without a massive FPS hit and stutters.

I also got embroiled with two 109's low over Hawkinge on ATAG, prior to this patch my system would have gone into a slide show. Performance was pretty good for a change.

[IvanK]

No CTD for me so far with the patch. SSAO OFF, Grass OFF, VSYNCH ON, AA 2X

WIN7 64, GTX 580, 6Gb RAM

[5./JG27.Farber]

SEE - Are you still playing for the wrong team?

Join the dark side - offers still open! ;)

[SEE]

Thank's Farber.....get me 109 wings eh! :grin:

Now I can get on ATAG, I'd better get some hours in the 109 and see how it behaves with this alpha FM.

[SEE]

No CTD for me so far with the patch. SSAO OFF, Grass OFF, VSYNCH ON, AA 2X

WIN7 64, GTX 580, 6Gb RAM

I think this issue of rapid CTD on ATAG is probably confined to a few and enbling SSAO seems to cure that at least. SP, REPKA server 4 and Kampfverband No1 worked fine too with this alpha irrespective of my GFX settings.

[bw_wolverine]

Most encouraging thread I've seen in a while! I'm gonna go try this :)

[bw_wolverine]

Son of a...

just tried. Was able to engage a group of 3 bombers, attacked em and was just chatting that things seemed good when I got the crash...


ARRG!

[Stirwenn]

As for me : the more player on the server the more CTD i have. Past 30 players and CTD occurres more frequently. Under 30 players game is running fine for an 1hr30min.

[SEE]

I saw your chat then you disappeared, about 25 minutes later I went through a period of heavy stutters, mini freezes, etc and expected a CTD. It didn't happen but performance wasn't as good afterwards.

I lowered some video settings in case my CPU was bottlenecking and got a CTD about 25 minutes into the mission. Annoying, because it seems so promising.

I am going to try the Kampverband13 No 1 server again with my normal settings as that seems to work fine, hopefully there will be a few players on it.

[ATAG_Septic]

Hi,

I can identify no pattern to the Launcher crashes I am experiencing. I assume 'CTD' is short-hand for Launcher crash?

I have a decent system and frame rates are not an issue. I run the game with everything on very high/maximum settings and I turn off filtering and increase quality. I have always had SSAO on, 8xAA and have used injected FXAA before the beta Nvidia drivers included the option.

I have experienced Launcher crashes both on and off-line. I've had around eight hours of playing the game with no Launcher crash and I've had crashes within minutes. Last night several (seven or more) of us flew in close proximity together for an hour or so without problems then three of us jumped into one JU88 as we were shot down and all had a Launcher crash, coinciding with the third person to join. I wish we had the time and energy to try and recreate this crash but there are so many variables and it was late.

I hope the SSAO setting does improve the situation for some as it could point the developers towards one of the causes but it does not prevent Launcher crashes in my case.

Cheers,

Septic.

[CaptainDoggles]

Hi,

I can identify no pattern to the Launcher crashes I am experiencing. I assume 'CTD' is short-hand for Launcher crash? CTD = Crash To Desktop aka the game crashes, leaving you suddenly staring at your desktop wallpaper.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I was discussing this issue last night and we came to the conclusion you have to set the software to your hardware for the best results. Like the AA in game should be the same as your card is set too, desktop res, etc etc...

Its sad to hear about the CTD's. I have not had one yet... Although the game is deffinatley smoother..

[Bullit]

Tried this last night, after making sure my AA was the same in game as in my ATI Control centre, set my video sttings according to this thread and I went from CTD every 10-15 minutes (since patch) on ATAG to almost two hours on ATAG last night without a crash:grin: plus the games looks lush with these settings..bizarre:!:

[ATAG_Septic]

CTD = Crash To Desktop aka the game crashes, leaving you suddenly staring at your desktop wallpaper.

Thank you, although I was not misunderstanding about what people mean by a CTD. My game never crashes to the desktop. It stops and the screen freezes. I need to use Ctrl-Alt-Del to get back to a desktop, where I can see the launcher has crashed.

I have been assuming this was the typical experience of a Launcher crash but please advise if not and it might point me towards something I can tinker with.

Cheers,

Septic.

[Kwiatek]

Tried this last night, after making sure my AA was the same in game as in my ATI Control centre, set my video sttings according to this thread and I went from CTD every 10-15 minutes (since patch) on ATAG to almost two hours on ATAG last night without a crash:grin: plus the games looks lush with these settings..bizarre:!:

So which these settings are?

[Bullit]

So which these settings are?

There is a screen shot of settimgs on page 1:)

[SEE]

My game rarely Crashes to desktop as such, it usually Freezes and I have to Ctrl Alt Del to Desktop. Sometimes, I get the LE stopped warning box, sometimes I get a logfile with something in it. I use CTD in my posts to describe a 'sudden non useful functioning state'........there you go, SNUFS in future?......:grin:

I would still like to know if anyone else, who normally gets SNUFS, can go on Kampverband13 No1 server, shoot a whole bunch of AI for a couple of hours - and no SSAO + Shadows enabled or required.

[CaptainDoggles]

Thank you, although I was not misunderstanding about what people mean by a CTD. My game never crashes to the desktop. It stops and the screen freezes. I need to use Ctrl-Alt-Del to get back to a desktop, where I can see the launcher has crashed.

I have been assuming this was the typical experience of a Launcher crash but please advise if not and it might point me towards something I can tinker with.

Cheers,

Septic.

Yeah I imagine most people don't actually distinguish between a "crash" and a "crash to desktop". In fact I'm sure from the technical standpoint it's all pretty much the same thing. In the common vernacular a CTD is a crash where there's no error reported/displayed, and you just get the desktop unexpectedly whereas a crash displays an error.

But it's one of those acronyms that someone started using and everyone else seems to have picked up.

[von Brühl]

Concur, although previously I got the true CTD, but with this patch, it's the freeze/task manager lockup.

[ICU_DIE535]

I am one of the people who get the freeze/launcher stopped working crash while I play online with the ATAG Server alpha patch, and while playing single player. I have sent many crash logs.

BUT NO MORE IT's FIXED!:-D

I was on the ATAG Server late last night and had no lock-up or freeze screen problems for around an hour and a half of flying then I logged off, after I carefully read all the posts here and gave it one more try.

What I did after appling the 1.6 alpha patch:
AA off
SSAO ON
VSYNC ON
GRASS ON
SHADOWS ON
ROADS ON
FOREST OFF (Yes Forest off not a typo)
BUILDINGS AMOUNT LOW
TEXTURE QUALITY MEDIUM (This one is important if you fly the 109 because if its set to low then I can't see the gunsight cross and circle).

The rest of my settings are set to lowest possible except the special effects feature that shows the Mine shells explode and burning vehicles etc. This is important of course so you can see hits and if the target is destroyed.

Before when I had the crashes all this stuff was off. Now my problem is low frame rates 20-32 because I have an OLDER Geforce GTX 260 1 G Ram, but this FPS is actually an improvment over the 1.5 patch which gave me 10-20 FPS when I had grass turned on and graphic setting high etc.

Hope this helps people how are still having trouble I fixed mine by following these guys suggestions here and it worked. Now I need to upgrade my Video card and I'll be in business

My Rig:
Intel i7 CPU 870 4 cores
Win 7 64-bit
4 GB Ram
Geforce GTX 260 1 G RAM
Driver version 8.17.12.9610
CH Products Fighter Stick, Rudder Pedals, Throttle
Sound Creative X-Fi Audio Processor

[JG52Uther]

OK, on Monday night I had a launcher crash at 5 minutes, 10 minutes, and another one at 30 minutes on ATAG. I had SSAO off, AA off, forest off,grass off, and roads off.
Tonight, I have changed my settings to:
AA off
SSAO ON
VSYNC ON
GRASS ON
SHADOWS ON
ROADS ON
FOREST OFF
And have just flown one hour 40 minutes with NO launcher crashes!

[Fenrisflyer]

For me, turning on SSOA and shadows have almost eliminated CTD's.

I only play online, and i would get CTD ALL THE TIME with the alpha patch.
I don't think i've played longer than 15 minutes on the alpha patch without a CTD.

After turning on SSOA and shadows, i've now played for two hours before my first crash.

[Flanker35M]

S!

So basically adding shadows and ambient occlusion helps against CTD? Strange indeed as those settings usually have a very big hit in FPS, but not so much now..

[SlipBall]

There is probably a simple answer for anyone here, but most just leave everything on max and complain of the ctd, never looking for the possible cure on their own rig.

[JG52Uther]

S!

So basically adding shadows and ambient occlusion helps against CTD? Strange indeed as those settings usually have a very big hit in FPS, but not so much now..

Well it seems to have worked so far for me! I have never run SSAO, because of the fps hit, but turning it on has not made much difference for me fps wise, but I didn't get a leauncher exe, and it was very playable on ATAG.

[5./JG27.Farber]

My wingman and I just flew for 2 hours on ATAG in peak time with no CTD, muliple flights and fights...

[SEE]

Slip ball, I have tried more variables to cure my rapid LE crashes on ATAG than I care to count. I never tried SSAO simply because of the performance hit it might cause.

In my opening post I also mentioned that this problem on my rig was server dependent - no problems with my settings when Low, Med or high in SP or some other servers - only ATAG and Kampverband13 No2 caused rapid CTD.

If I disable shadows and enable SSAO I get LE crash within 10 minutes.

Enabling both has little impact on my FPS but as to why enabling both works is very contentious and it doesn't make sense to me either -especially since I only have to enable these for two particular servers.

[SlipBall]

Slip ball, I have tried more variables to cure my rapid LE crashes on ATAG than I care to count. I never tried SSAO simply because of the performance hit it might cause.

In my opening post I also mentioned that this problem on my rig was server dependent - no problems with my settings when Low, Med or high in SP or some other servers - only ATAG and Kampverband13 No2 caused rapid CTD.

If I disable shadows and enable SSAO I get LE crash within 10 minutes.

Enabling both has little impact on my FPS but as to why enabling both works is very contentious and it doesn't make sense to me either -especially since I only have to enable these for two particular servers.



Yes I think it's good that you experiment...as a result you can fly and have fun.

[SEE]

EDIT - too many variables/anomalies so have deleted what seems unique to my system or install but still think that
these rapid CTD's are a cloud rendering problem for some systems and that SSAO + Shadows is somehow compensating for them.

[Jugdriver]

I turned on SSAO and changed textures to Original and I have not had a CTD since, I have had over 4 hours of flying since the change. I was getting them every 20 to 60 minutes before.

I know you guys have told the Devs about this, hopefully they can use this information to kill the CTD bug.


JD
AKA_MattE

[furbs]

Easy test for me, as i get a CTD after 10 mins in SP. Will test and report back.

[5./JG27.Farber]

New hotfix...

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/farber82/frames2.jpg

44 mins of flight. Flew for a simular time frame earlier... 3 or 4 of us... Seems good.

[SEE]

...and no SSAO needed, works great now with the mini fix. Really pleased with this alpha's performance - I left shadows on because I can - had to have them off before.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I have turned SSAO off now:

http://i1020.photobucket.com/albums/af321/farber82/FRAMESAGAIN.jpg

117 miutes on ATAG...

Looks like the patch is good after all...

[JG52Uther]

Same here! No CTDs yet, after 3 hours on ATAG.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I had one early on, but haven't had one since. Around 10 hours of play now.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I just had kinda a CTD but the game didnt entirely crash. The in game would not display but it wasnt a total crash... It was the one where it minimises to desk top but wont let you in the game, you hit escape and see only the in game menus...

[JG52Uther]

Ah here we go, just jumped in to ATAG again and had a launcher exe after 10 minutes or so! I had changed some settings though, and, I joined through multiplayer in the game menu, rather than the ATAG TS shortcut...

[5./JG27.Farber]

I had 3 like I explained above then I restarted my pc. Everything was fine again and then after a server restarted it happened again. My cache folder was near 60Mb... Deleted it. See if this problem prevails tomorrow. I wonder if the Cache folder has a maximum size?

[JG52Uther]

Possibly Farber. I flew nearly 3 hours, then jumped out when the mission ended. When I rejoined, this time through the ingame multiplayer, I got the launcher .exe. I hadn't cleared my cache either.

[SEE]

That Shader folder gets huge.

I was wondering if changes made in CloD Video options mean a new set of shaders are being generated. I don't really know their function - what is the function of the Shader files?

I had another LE crash 10 minutes into a fresh start on ATAG so enabled SSAO + Shadows again and cleared the cache folder.