BOB era "instrument" approaches

[jcenzano]

I just finished reading the book "Gun button to fire" written by one of the surviving members of RAF 249 sqn and, knowing quite well modern RL combat aviation, I was intrigued by how they did things back then.

One of my many questions arose when I repeatedly read how they where flying in very bad weather and landing back under such crappy conditions. But the author gives no deatils about how they did it.

I am quite illiterate when it comes to WWII aviation procedures and I was wondering if someone could point me out in the good direction to learn how they did this approaches in bad weather back then, so i can reproduce myself these procedures later on.

Appreciate your help.

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Hi,in the Hurricane pilots manual for the MK1,Merlin II engine(what we have in COD)it states under the following for 'Approach' and sub sectioned under 'Flying in poor visibility':

'When necessary to fly at low altitude it is advisable to open the cockpit hood and lower flaps fully.In this condition a speed of 80-90 m.p.h.,A.S.I,reading may be maintained with engine r.p.m,of 1,700-1,800 without vibration and with good control.In addition ,some pilots prefer to lower the undercarriage'.

Hope this helps,just about to read that book too.My user name is Plt Off JRB Meaker he was with 249 Squadron so I am interested to see if he is mentioned in it.

On the 27/9/1940 after being hit by the crossfire from a Ju88 he bailed out only to hit his tail on doing so and died of his injuries,my username is a small tribute to guys like this.:)

[furbs]

One quite scary way ive read about for single plane approaches was to have a person standing on the threshold and wait until the aircraft was just above judging by the sound and tell the pilot to pancake by radio!
Not something i would like to try!

Sorry doesn't help you i know but interesting all the same i think.

[jcenzano]

Hi,in the Hurricane pilots manual for the MK1,Merlin II engine(what we have in COD)it states under the following for 'Approach' and sub sectioned under 'Flying in poor visibility':

'When necessary to fly at low altitude it is advisable to open the cockpit hood and lower flaps fully.In this condition a speed of 80-90 m.p.h.,A.S.I,reading may be maintained with engine r.p.m,of 1,700-1,800 without vibration and with good control.In addition ,some pilots prefer to lower the undercarriage'.

Hope this helps,just about to read that book too.My user name is Plt Off JRB Meaker he was with 249 Squadron so I am interested to see if he is mentioned in it.

On the 27/9/1940 after being hit by the crossfire from a Ju88 he bailed out only to hit his tail on doing so and died of his injuries,my username is a small tribute to guys like this.:)

Thanks for the reply.

I know you will enjoy the book.

I am specially interested on how they found the runway to land. Did they descent without any navaid until they could id a landmark??

If so, until what altitude did they descent in fog?? Did they have any external navaid back then? Did they fly just visual (navigationwise)?


Where can I found the Hurricane's flight manual??? Is it copiright free?

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

I know you will enjoy the book.

Thanks for the reply. Where can I found the Hurricane's flight manual??? Is it copiright free?

Hi,sorry I can't give you more info,that's all I could find relevant to what your asking,they,I pressume must have got to their airfield using a compass bearing and nearing the airfield made a visual,I don't really know,sorry.What is for sure there was'nt any autopilot installed on the aircraft to assist.

Not sure about the copyright,but the MK1 Merlin II pilot notes are very rare,if you look on Ebay they're mostly all Mk2's which is a different beast altogether I think,so beware what you buy.

A few days ago some clown on Ebay was selling this MK1 version of pilot notes for £120,so they go for ridicoulous money.

Not sure if the MK2 pilot notes procedures are any different as I have never looked,but maybe some boffin on here will let us know.

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Just found this,but you'll have to register I think to get it,if it's still available,but this is the one.See sixth reply.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/hawker-hurricane-pilot-manual-5066.html

[GraveyardJimmy]

Thanks for the reply.

I know you will enjoy the book.

I am specially interested on how they found the runway to land. Did they descent without any navaid until they could id a landmark??




This was definitely a problem. I can't remember which book it was offhand, but there is a story of someone who simply couldn't match up the runway lights and his heading, not realising he was repeatedly coming in off line or across the runway and decided to fly off and try again.

It was only when he finally managed to land (running on empty or fumes) he managed to piece together his relation to the airfield he had been circling from what people told him on the ground.


I have also read that Q-sites ("An electrically lit dummy airstation for nighttime deception.") that used lights and flare paths not only confused German airmen, but also British flyers who weren't sure of their position. Apparently there were 100 of these so a lost pilot stumbling across one might momentarily not realise it was a fake.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Interesting topic.

Geoff Wellum in 'First Light' describes a particularly nasty sortie in bad weather in the 'Convoy Pair' chapter.

His r/t was also unserviceable, so no help from ground control in terms of vectors to base etc.

He got back safely owing to good knowledge of the local geography, coastline and landmarks, good navigation in almost blind flying conditions, and probably a good deal of luck.

[Artist]

Forsyth, Frederick. The Shepherd. 1976 (see wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shepherd)) comes to my mind. It (fictionally) describes how one plane (a Mosquito) guides another (a Vampire jetplane with complete electricity failure) through the fog down onto the runway. It's an "Xmas fiction" shortstory - but seems to claim at least some foundation in reality (Forsyth is a former RAF pilot).

[Damixu]

It's only my real life pilot guess but dead reckoning was the only way of apporaching back then. Unfortunately they didn't have any ILS nor anything close proximity fine grade radars/radio locators back then what we have now...

[furbs]

They would be given a heading to follow from ground control to get them back over home base.

[Sutts]

Hi,in the Hurricane pilots manual for the MK1,Merlin II engine(what we have in COD)it states under the following for 'Approach' and sub sectioned under 'Flying in poor visibility':

'When necessary to fly at low altitude it is advisable to open the cockpit hood and lower flaps fully.In this condition a speed of 80-90 m.p.h.,A.S.I,reading may be maintained with engine r.p.m,of 1,700-1,800 without vibration and with good control.In addition ,some pilots prefer to lower the undercarriage'.

Hope this helps,just about to read that book too.My user name is Plt Off JRB Meaker he was with 249 Squadron so I am interested to see if he is mentioned in it.

On the 27/9/1940 after being hit by the crossfire from a Ju88 he bailed out only to hit his tail on doing so and died of his injuries,my username is a small tribute to guys like this.:)



Just recently finished "gun button to fire" - one of the best BoB accounts I've read. Brian is indeed mentioned and he gets a good write up at the end of the book too.

Lots of detail in a day by day format, great stuff.

[Jumo211]

not exactly relevant to poor weather or visibility but something to watch......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQWZEVaoFKQ&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6oGa1bqe1U&feature=plcp

[secretone]

I know from real life experience that simple IFR approaches can be flown with a non directional radio beacon, bearings to the runway from said beacon, and a stopwatch. Whether that's that they did or not, I cannot say...

This method should allow you to descend safely to say 400 feet above the ground assuming that there are no terrain hazards nearby. If the ceiling is lower, then this sort of approach can become very dangerous.

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Great vids Jumo,especially the compass and directional gyro synchronisation which starts at 7.10,great stuff mate,thanks v much.

BTW that's a Blenheim he's piloting I'd know that steering column anywhere,lol.

[salmo]

I just finished reading the book "Gun button to fire" written by one of the surviving members of RAF 249 sqn and, knowing quite well modern RL combat aviation, I was intrigued by how they did things back then.

One of my many questions arose when I repeatedly read how they where flying in very bad weather and landing back under such crappy conditions. But the author gives no deatils about how they did it.

I am quite illiterate when it comes to WWII aviation procedures and I was wondering if someone could point me out in the good direction to learn how they did this approaches in bad weather back then, so i can reproduce myself these procedures later on.

Appreciate your help.

Fog Investigation and Dispersal Operation (FIDO) (which was sometimes referred to as "Fog Intense Dispersal Operation" or "Fog Intense Dispersal Of") was a system used for dispersing fog from an airfield so that aircraft could land safely. You can find more info about the system HERE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_Investigation_and_Dispersal_Operation)

[SAFMoby]

Not sure how long these been around but quite possible in a spit or hurri

http://www.nordian.net/pdf/jaa_radio_navigation_demo.pdf

[Skoshi Tiger]

Flg Off Trevor Wade 92 Sqn talks about his experience on the 27/28 July 1940

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b423/Skoshi_Tiger/ifr.jpg

From "The Legendary Spitfire Mk1/11 1939-1940"

I guess sometimes you have no other options.

[IvanK]

Great vids Jumo,especially the compass and directional gyro synchronisation which starts at 7.10,great stuff mate,thanks v much.

BTW that's a Blenheim he's piloting I'd know that steering column anywhere,lol.


Actually I think its a Beaufort by the landing gear design.

[322Sqn_Dusty]

Have a read at this:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/329990-gaining-r-f-pilots-brevet-ww11.html

Takes ages to read all the great stories but it's worth it if you are interested. And there are a lot of facets covered..also the landings asked for in this thread.

[Blackdog_kt]

All of what has been said i've come across on various accounts as well.

It's mostly a combination of knowing your area of operations, getting vectored by ground control and using an automatic direction finder instrument, if your aircraft was equipped with one, tuned to a beacon nearby the airfield (or on the airfield itself).

In extreme cases an aircraft with better instrumentation could be dispatched, if one was available, to guide the others in. I've flown such a mission in a user made campaign for IL2:1946 that was based on Heinz Knocke's book.
The mission builder took a chapter from the book and adapted it into a mission where the player (in the role of Knocke) and his flight are flying alongside a Bf1110 on a relocation flight to another base, the reason being that the 110 has better instruments and could guide them.

Some examples i can think of that are probably reproducible in flight sims:

If a beacon was located on the airfield, the pilot could simply fly to it. He would know he was directly over it when the bearing needle in the instrument reversed (at the moment of overflying it). If the beacon was not on the airfield but nearby, the pilot could calculate a suitable bearing from beacon to home field and the time to fly for his current speed (aka compass and stopwatch flying).

Then, with knowledge of local terrain he could pick out a route to extend to and line up for approach, depending on ground control instructions, which runway was active and so on.

For example, in case of low cloud cover or haze/mist with hilly terrain on one side of the airfield, the pilot would overfly the airfield and then turn to a bearing that allowed him to descend safely and break through the cloud cover. Then he could turn back to the airfield (guided by the beacon) and make a visual approach. Or, in case of calm wind conditions, he could request an alternative runway, one whose approach path is lined up with lower terrain.

Mind you, radios back then were bulky (transistor-based electronics hadn't been invented yet) and only twin-engined aircraft and above had tunable radios.

Fighters had their radios pre-tuned by the ground crew and the pilot would then choose one of five available frequencies by pushing buttons in the cockpit: it's the sequence of red buttons on the top left of the cockpit panel in the Spits. I don't know if it's there in our CoD Spits because i usually fly blue or blenheims, but you can clearly see it in the IL2:1946 Spits.

Each of these buttons corresponded to one of the pre-tuned frequencies. Four of those were for voice communications and the fifth was usually tuned to a beacon. The trick here was that because the instrument panel didn't usually have an ADF instrument, tuning the radio to the beacon gave the pilot audio cues.

So for example, if you need to turn right to reach the beacon you hear dashes, if you need to turn left you hear dots (morse code) and if you're on the right course you probably hear a continuous tone (dots and dashes overlapping in sequence).

As you can see, it is very possible to navigate this way but it's quite cumbersome. Tuning into the nav radio deprives the pilot of communication with his flight and vice versa. Add to that the inflexibility of specific approach conditions (eg, sometimes you might not have the choice of a better approach due to wind conditions and you are forced to take the approach that is lined by a row of hills on either side) and it's easy to see that things can get dangerous.

Of course this is all for single engined fighters. Multi-seaters and twins could do a lot a better in that regard and as the war progressed they were fitted with increasingly better navigation equipment.