historical fidelity

[pstyle]

Hi All, this is a pure hypothetical, and is not a “request” for the developers.

I have a question to “poll” the commitment to historical fidelity among us mostly red-aircraft flyers.

Would you embrace a modeled Spit 1b in the game, even if that flight model included the notorious and well documented frequent cannon jams?

I’m keen to hear the overall thoughts on this.

[fruitbat]

No, I might consider the Spit Mk1b though........;)

really though, since only 19 squadron flew the Ib for a very limited time and that they were in 12 group, can't really see the point.

[bongodriver]

I would welcome it on the basis it was historical fact, if there was room for the G50 then there is no excuse to exclude any RAF type.

Canons may have jammed but there were still 4 303's to use.

[fruitbat]

I would welcome it on the basis it was historical fact, if there was room for the G50 then there is no excuse to exclude any RAF type.

Canons may have jammed but there were still 4 303's to use.

No, the Spit Ib only had 2 cannons.

It wasn't until the IIb that they had the duel weapon system, and that wasn't until dec 40, well after BoB (first squad 92 squadron).

[pstyle]

No, I might consider the Spit Mk1b though........;)

Oops! Fixed the OP..

[bongodriver]

No, the Spit Ib only had 2 cannons.

It wasn't until the IIb that they had the duel weapon system, and that wasn't until dec 40, well after BoB (first squad 92 squadron).


ooops..... my bad, but I would still like the 1b jams and all for the same reasons.

[von Brühl]

I would welcome it on the basis it was historical fact, if there was room for the G50 then there is no excuse to exclude any RAF type.

Canons may have jammed but there were still 4 303's to use.

Incorrect, the Ib only had the cannons, no MG's. Usually jammed within first 10 rounds.

[bongodriver]

Incorrect, the Ib only had the cannons, no MG's. Usually jammed within first 10 rounds.

Yes I know, the original post mentioned (before correction) the IIb, I have aknowleged the mistake.

[Talisman]

Hi All, this is a pure hypothetical, and is not a “request” for the developers.

I have a question to “poll” the commitment to historical fidelity among us mostly red-aircraft flyers.

Would you embrace a modeled Spit 1b in the game, even if that flight model included the notorious and well documented frequent cannon jams?

I’m keen to hear the overall thoughts on this.

To be honest, the cannon armed Spit for BoB does not interest me at all as I believe it had little, if any, effect on the battle. Unlike other technology such as 100 Octane fuel which was ubiquitous and one of the fundamental elements to success in the air for the RAF, along with other elements such as the Rotal prop, radar and the associated "Dowding system" for coordinating and using intelligence on incoming enemy ac.

Proper representation of 100 Octane fuel and the "Dowding system" would be my priority. I am not sure that I would ever bother to choose to fly a cannon armed Spit for BoB.

[KG26_Alpha]

Hi All, this is a pure hypothetical, and is not a “request” for the developers.

I have a question to “poll” the commitment to historical fidelity among us mostly red-aircraft flyers.

Would you embrace a modeled Spit 1b in the game, even if that flight model included the notorious and well documented frequent cannon jams?


I’m keen to hear the overall thoughts on this.





Luthier has already stated it wont be modelled.


So as for thoughts to have it in the game ?

Not for me thanks I wouldn't have wanted to enter a combat area with no reliable firepower.

But as for historical commitment yes you could have it but it would be like the V1 rockets in IL2 1946,
they are done but no one fly's intercept missions to tip them over with their wings, they fire at them.

Sometime the effort for doing something "just because" could be better spent in other areas that would be used.


:)



.

[KG26_Alpha]

Its not a 100 octane discussion thread.

Stay on topic .

[ATAG_Dutch]

I'd say there wouldn't be much point to it at all.

19 squadron themselves reverted back to the Ia from the 'experimental' Ib pretty darn quickly, even though they had to accept some pretty weary Ias that came I think from an OCU.

Nope, far more issues to address than this very minor thing.

Has anyone mentioned that (visually at least), none of the Spits have metal skinned ailerons? These only came about post November 1940 and have about as much importance to the current game as having the true Ibs supplied to 92 squadron around the same time.

Operable nav and landing lights, now I'd welcome those. ;)

[fruitbat]

I
Has anyone mentioned that (visually at least), none of the Spits have metal skinned ailerons? These only came about post November 1940 and have about as much importance to the current game as having the true Ibs supplied to 92 squadron around the same time.



Metal ailerons actually didn't come until much later, in may '41.

92 squadrons cannon armed spits, were IIb's, and i believe in dec '40.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Hiya Fruitbat.

I'm quoting from Alfred Price there with the Ibs mate. Also the crash field conversion to metal ailerons from Nov '40 on. Maybe they weren't standard factory fitment until May or summat.

But I've no intention of posting reams of documents, or of having a protracted debate. I'd rather bow to your superior knowledge! ;)

[fruitbat]

Hiya Fruitbat.

I'm quoting from Alfred Price there with the Ibs mate. Also the crash field conversion to metal ailerons from Nov '40 on. Maybe they weren't standard factory fitment until May or summat.

But I've no intention of posting reams of documents, or of having a protracted debate. I'd rather bow to your superior knowledge! ;)

I originally thought the same as you re the ailerons, from the same source no less! But after reading Morgan and Shacklady's SPITFIRE: THE HISTORY it actually took them a long time to get there arse in gear on this one.

Something I found quite funny about the metal ailerons though from Johnnie Johnsons book,

Despite the fact that they were being fitted to Mk V's, 616 Squadron (ie Bader) decided that they wanted to have them on there Spit MkII's and dealt directly with the factory and signed the bits of paper put in front of them.

About a year later, Johnnie Johnson got an official letter, requiring an explanation as to why and who had authorised this, he replied that perhaps Bader might know (he was PoW by now)!:)

Re the spits IIb's, If you haven't read it yet, read Johnnie Kents book if you get the chance, goes into this in detail on this as he was CO at the time, and very much the leading voice in wanting this 'new' b wing. Good book.

[ATAG_Dutch]

If you haven't read it yet, read Johnnie Kents book if you get the chance, goes into this in detail on this as he was CO at the time, and very much the leading voice in wanting this 'new' b wing. Good book.

Excellent book, and it's on my shelf. Been a while since I read it though so thanks for the prod!
I'm just finishing Arthur Harris' 'Bomber Offensive' at the mo.
Love Johnny Kent's tales of home built 'planes and sneaking engines into Canada from the US, and all the test pilot stuff too.

So anyway, no need for cannons on Spits in 'Cliffs' then!! :grin:

[salmo]

I'm all for historical accuracy in aircraft performance, even if that puts one side at a disadvantage. There are several aircraft types/models (including the Spit Mk1b) of the period that could be added to a BOB scenario on both sides. I look forward to the day when the modders can work their magic and introduce these aircraft types to the game.

[ElAurens]

I'd rather have a flyable Defiant or Gladiator.

Or...

Or...


Or...


Lots of aircraft that would help the sim more than a 1b.

[Osprey]

What's the point of the thread? To get an idea if red flyers are the type that just want game advantage?

No. But I'd be happy to have it as long as the cannons jammed randomly, but I wouldn't fly it and see it as big a waste of developer resource as 'heartbreaker'.

[II/JG54_Emil]

Id be happy if we can have the loadouts that were used frequently in any aircraft.

I would appreciate anything that is purely historical no matter if guns jam or bombs and torpedos are duds.

[klem]

Hi All, this is a pure hypothetical, and is not a “request” for the developers.

I have a question to “poll” the commitment to historical fidelity among us mostly red-aircraft flyers.

Would you embrace a modeled Spit 1b in the game, even if that flight model included the notorious and well documented frequent cannon jams?

I’m keen to hear the overall thoughts on this.

No, it had very little use in the BoB and it would lead to a flood of 1b's online. If they were limited to say 2 a/c (for scale effect) they'd be little point especially if a random jam generator was applied.

Wait for '41 and the MkVb :)