The best fighter of WWII

[Fenrisflyer]

According to one person who flew them all:

http://translate.google.no/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.side3.no%2Farticle3382324.ece

[swiss]

The D-9?
It got a paper somewhere where he said he aesthetically preferred the A versions.

[Skoshi Tiger]

We've gone through this many times before and it always ends up with the same result.

It was the Hurricane....because Biggles flew one!

nuff said! ;)

[GOA_Potenz]

Can't wait to fly the D9 in CloD

[GraveyardJimmy]

It was the Hurricane....because Biggles flew one!


Ah, but he flew a spitfire in the desert!

http://yabs.isambard.com.au/images/edition-covers/673-cover.jpg

[Moggy]

It all depends on what you want to do with the aircraft. According to 1 magazine I read a few years ago, they came up with the P-47 (based on 4 mission criteria) as the best overall aircraft of the European theatre and the Hellcat in the Pacific theatre.

I found the list and the criteria...

Constant production improvement in combat capability
Four mission capability (air to air, air to ground troop support, bomber escort and photo recon)
Pilot compatibility
Service record

7. P-38 Lightning
6. BF-109
5. Yak-1 and Yak-9
4. P-51 Mustang
3. Spitfire/Seafire
2. FW-190
1. P-47

[taildraggernut]

Pilot compatibility

Explain this one, I thought if it had a seat and controls it was pilot compatible.

[Moggy]

If memory serves it was ease of use, it's a long time since I've seen the magazine. Perhaps someone still has the magazine, I remember it was an American publication.

[SiThSpAwN]

Explain this one, I thought if it had a seat and controls it was pilot compatible.

I am sure some planes were better designed for pilot function than others, I am sure that's what they mean with that.

[Moggy]

I've found the details on another website so excuse the typing. The magazine was Flight Journal from August 2003 and the author was Corky Meyer;

Pilot compatability
experienced pilots didn't fight wars; hastily trained conscripts that BECAME experienced pilots fought them.
the plane should therefore be comfortable for a 200hr, wartime-trained pilot to fly.
docile flight characteristics, high performance, good cockpit design & outside visibility, comfort, armored/self-sealing fuel tanks, and the resulting low accident rate.

[taildraggernut]

If memory serves it was ease of use, it's a long time since I've seen the magazine. Perhaps someone still has the magazine, I remember it was an American publication.

I am sure some planes were better designed for pilot function than others, I am sure that's what they mean with that.

Yes that does make sense thanks.

[mazex]

Explain this one, I thought if it had a seat and controls it was pilot compatible.

Now you think like Willy Messerschmitt ;)

/mazex

[tintifaxl]

Of course it was the Tempest! Clostermann flew them. :grin:

[6S.Manu]

It all depends on what you want to do with the aircraft. According to 1 magazine I read a few years ago, they came up with the P-47 (based on 4 mission criteria) as the best overall aircraft of the European theatre and the Hellcat in the Pacific theatre.

I found the list and the criteria...

Constant production improvement in combat capability
Four mission capability (air to air, air to ground troop support, bomber escort and photo recon)
Pilot compatibility
Service record

7. P-38 Lightning
6. BF-109
5. Yak-1 and Yak-9
4. P-51 Mustang
3. Spitfire/Seafire
2. FW-190
1. P-47

I agree with this list but I would ignore the service record (who's the enemy?).

But I don't see the Tempest, that in IL2 1946 it's probably the best plane out there. :D

And before anybody comes claiming the uber IL2's 109s, think about the G6...

[pstyle]

This reminds me of those silly "10 most dangerous fish" programmes on discovery channel

[fruitbat]

Ha, if you went by il2, then it would be the La7B20:rolleyes:

[CWMV]

,,,

And before anybody comes claiming the uber IL2's 109s, think about the G6...

Oh man.
I love me some 109's, but that G-6...it makes baby jesus cry.

[fruitbat]

yeah, but its extra satisfying when you shoot down someone flying a spit25lbs in one:-P

[carguy_]

Oh man.
I love me some 109's, but that G-6...it makes baby jesus cry.
The G6 is known for separating men from boys. You don`t like the plane, so you know who you are:grin:

[klem]

I met Eric Brown about a month ago, what a remarkable, unaffected and nice man. In the time available he took us from late war aircraft through to post-war. He told us, unprompted, "if I had to choose which of all the WWII propeller aircraft to fly [in combat] it would be the Spitfire MkXIV, the FW190D-9 then probably the Mustang IV in that order". In the link he says P51D but he told us Mustang IV. He did also mention "the beautiful Macchi C205".

I asked him what made the difference for him between the Spit and the FW. He said "the maneouvrability of the Spitfire, but the FW had a very high rate of roll" which old IL-2 '46 hands here will already know. He had previously mentioned the stall/spin characteristic of the FW.

It was hard to believe I was talking to the man who had flown so many aircraft including first Wildcat carrier landing for the RAF, deck-landing Mosquitos (!! approved, but too late for WWII/Jets), Me262, Me163, Me162... most get a mention in that link......and on and on. You may have seen the demonstration on 'Discovery'/'History' channels of the German scientist dropping a single drop of both T-Stoff and C-Stoff onto a small dish and the resultant explosion. He said the demo he was given blew the pipettes out of the scientists hands. This was the mixture that powered the Me163.

I'm halfway through his book at the moment. Signed of course :)

My overfall best Aircraft? Me262 if it could have been reliable. I think that was Eric's feeling too subject to the realities of engine life, slow acceleration making it vulnerable around the airfields, etc.. As he said, it was 100mph faster than any allied aircraft, what could you do?

Best propeller aircfraft? I'm not going to argue with Mr Brown. I was very fond of the FW190D-9 in IL-2 and we often made low level fast GA runs in the Mustang IV.

[Moggy]

This reminds me of those silly "10 most dangerous fish" programmes on discovery channel

Tonight on when fish go bad....

[Insuber]

I think Eric Brown is right, MC.205 rulez!

[AKA_Tenn]

MXY-7
http://listverse.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/yokosuka-mxy-7-ohka.jpg

gotta be the worst... single-use aircraft AND pilot...

[Attila]

There is no doubt, TA 152 C the best Propplane ever!

[gelbevierzehn]

There is no doubt, TA 152 C the best Propplane ever!

+1

[zakkandrachoff]

o my goD! this stupid question again!
depend the battle and the year! some planes was very good in some times and at the pass of months, been low performance compared with others

for example:

1939 poland=Bf109E3 ; 1940 France and low countrys= Bf109E3; England1940=BF109E4; Englandfirst1941=Spitfire MKIIb; Barbarossa1941=Bf109F-2; WinterWAr1939=I-16; RussianFrontfirst1942=Bf109F4; RussianFrontend1942=FockeWulf190A ; RussianFrontend1943=La-5F ; restRussianFront=Yaks ; and keepgoing, etc etc etc

[ElAurens]

Whatever we consider the "best" or or own favorite, I'm just happy to see folks actually talking about aircraft again.

;)

You know what my favorite is.

:cool:

[taildraggernut]

As soon as any one of us can claim to have flown every type (more or less) then we will qualify to make any claim we want, Eric Brown has, which makes him the foremost authority, I know....He's British.....inevitably claims of National bias will creep in.

Brown said the MkXIV was his favourite wich doesn't surprise me, I saw a video a while back about a US warbird pilot, very experienced on P-51's etc, who took his first flight in a Griffon spit, the look on his face after said it all, it was like hed just been bedded by the Swedish womens beach volleyball team :grin:

[julien673]

England 41 ??????? lol the FW190 , remember they didn t see the battleship, because the FW190 was so good :) its was the A3 if i remember

[fruitbat]

England 41 ??????? lol the FW190 , remember they didn t see the battleship, because the FW190 was so good :) its was the A3 if i remember

He said early 41, FW190 didn't enter theatre until the back end of 41. and it was the A1 first, A3 wasn't until 42. Fw190 was King on the western front until the spit Mk9 though.

[Ace Cheese]

Supermarine Spitfire
Focke-Wulf Fw 190
Lavochkin La-7
Messerschmitt Bf 109
Grumman F6F Hellcat
Macchi C.205 Veltro
Yakovlev Yak-9
Mitsubishi A6M Zero
Messerschmitt Me 262
North American P-51 Mustang
Hawker Tempest
Nakajima Ki-84

[Rickusty]

It really looks like every test pilot who flew the C.202 or C.205 was impressed by the way they flew, by their great maneuverability and just pure pleasure of flying.
I remember Eric Brown's opinions about the 205, but it's nonetheless nice to see the 205 there.
What a shame there isn't a flyable 202 or 205 in the world (apart from the Macchi owned one which flew in the 80s, which is stored inside their hangars by now ... :evil: )
It would be so cool to see one going up in the sky again.

[Dick Tator]

Putting aside which airframe was superior to which, this gentleman Eric Brown had an remarkable and priviledged opportunities in his life to experience what we others barely can imagine. Simply wow!

[tools4fools]

What makes the 109 and Spit different and outstanding is those two were competitive throughout the entire war, not only during a certain period.

If you put in 'mission capability' and 'service record' the those of a P-51/P-47/Fw 190 would be zilch in 39 and 40...
++++++

[Bewolf]

What makes the 109 and Spit different and outstanding is those two were competitive throughout the entire war, not only during a certain period.

If you put in 'mission capability' and 'service record' the those of a P-51/P-47/Fw 190 would be zilch in 39 and 40...
++++++

Agreed, those two are the "iconic adversaries" of WW2, atop of eveyplane else for the simple reason that these two planes were there from start to end. The 109 even fought in the spanish civil war. Both found their way in one form or another into Israel, which must be considered the greatest irony of all.

So maybe not the best, but certainly the most epic.

[Rumcajs]

I've found this nice article http://www.historynet.com/messerschmitt-me-109.htm . Just read the first few sentences

Few arguments are more futile–yet more perennially enticing–than the question of which was the greatest fighter of World War II. What criterion does one use to define 'great?' Performance? Versatility? Combat record? Don't ask veteran fighter pilots to settle the matter. They have their own opinions, best expressed by the late Soviet ace of aces Ivan Kozhedub's answer to the question: 'The La-7. I hope you understand why.' The Lavochkin La-7 was indisputably a great fighter. More important, it was his fighter.

[SiThSpAwN]

I've found this nice article http://www.historynet.com/messerschmitt-me-109.htm . Just read the first few sentences

Few arguments are more futile–yet more perennially enticing–than the question of which was the greatest fighter of World War II. What criterion does one use to define 'great?' Performance? Versatility? Combat record? Don't ask veteran fighter pilots to settle the matter. They have their own opinions, best expressed by the late Soviet ace of aces Ivan Kozhedub's answer to the question: 'The La-7. I hope you understand why.' The Lavochkin La-7 was indisputably a great fighter. More important, it was his fighter.


That quote pretty much says it all, most aces from WWII would probably say the same thing....

[Osprey]

It all depends on what you want to do with the aircraft. According to 1 magazine I read a few years ago, they came up with the P-47 (based on 4 mission criteria) as the best overall aircraft of the European theatre and the Hellcat in the Pacific theatre.


Don Blakeslee thought so much of it he couldn't swap them quick enough for Mustangs

[Moggy]

Don Blakeslee thought so much of it he couldn't swap them quick enough for Mustangs

Absolutely Osprey, it's a very subjective list and naturally not everyone (myself included) will agree with Corky's opinion. He did mention 2 things which counted against the Mustang quite heavily, firstly the Mustang's Achilles heel...radiator damage during ground attacks and secondly stalling during landing...in particular as it's in the circuit and turning onto finals if an inexperienced pilot didn't keep an eye on the speed during the turn the aircraft would stall quite sharply and dive in.
If you use his criteria as a basis, the Mustang fails in 1 aspect (pilot compatibility) and struggles in part of another (air to ground troop support). So you can see why he has placed other aircraft ahead of the Mustang.

[Seeker]

I'm surprised the Sea fire is on the list, and astonished the Zero isn't.

[Yellow14150]

That was a really interesting read! I wonder if he flew any Russian aircraft? Perhaps they weren't a joy to fly, but rugged. Although by 1943 Russian numbers probably made up for all else.

[Moggy]

I'm surprised the Sea fire is on the list, and astonished the Zero isn't.

If you're talking about Corky's list Seeker, it was for the European theatre only. He did make a short list for the Pacific too;

1. Hellcat
2. Corsair
3. Zero

He said that if the war had ended when the Japanese intended it to then the Zero would of been number 1, it didn't so it only made it to number 3 on his list.

[klem]

That was a really interesting read! I wonder if he flew any Russian aircraft? Perhaps they weren't a joy to fly, but rugged. Although by 1943 Russian numbers probably made up for all else.

Ilyushin 2
Ilyushin 4
Lacochkin 7
Karnov 26
MiG-3
MiG-15
Mil-1
Mil-2
Mil-4
Petlyakov Pe-2
Polikarpov I-15
Polikarpov I-16
Yakolev-1
Yakolev-9
Yakolev-11

All in his book 'Wimgs on my Sleeve'. Worth reading.

[klem]

I'm surprised the Sea fire is on the list, and astonished the Zero isn't.

He was astonished by some of the Zero's features: no bullet proof windscreen; no pilot seat armour; no self sealing tanks; cockpit hood could not be jettisoned.
"Obviously, Japanese combat philosophy for the fighter pilot was to fight to the death"
No surpise there then.

[Dick Tator]

Ilyushin 2
Ilyushin 4
Lacochkin 7
Karnov 26
MiG-3
MiG-15
Mil-1
Mil-2
Mil-4
Petlyakov Pe-2
Polikarpov I-15
Polikarpov I-16
Yakolev-1
Yakolev-9
Yakolev-11

All in his book 'Wimgs on my Sleeve'. Worth reading.

I've read: Good food for Finnish Me 109 G-2 and G-6s. Those weren't no match for Finnish aviation combat skills. Those guys were simply wizards of air dogfighting odds 10:1 and always prevail. Simply astonishing!

[yakaddict]

While this estimation is usefully informative, we really cant take it in absolute degree due to the lack of inclusion of the Yak-9 or La-7, the latter of which was said to be directly comparable in performance to the D9, and the former has been reported by both Western and Eastern sources to have possibly been the best fighter of the war. Certainly they at least deserve a place in the top ten.