Community Preference Initiative

[mxmadman]

http://img.wikinut.com/img/3blcdooho5ddy3q2/jpeg/0/I-have-a-dream-today.jpeg

The Monologue: (Optional)
Let me explain where I'm coming from: I've just finished work. I'm sittin' here enjoying an adult beverage and thinking about what I want to do in Clod but can't. I have just a short amount of time to play (today I do, :grin: but not always), and I'd like to jump in multiplayer and have some fun before I log off to do other things.

But when I jump into the ATAG server, I end up flying around almost aimlessly chasing around 'Yun'ku's 88!' or the more popular, "...got a guy out of in front of me here.. somewhere" from a helpful teammate on TS3.

I do this for a long while. I normally end up running out of fuel, and/or being so devastated by flack, that I must return home. Sometimes, I fail to even spot the notorious "Yun'kuh" or the even more illusive 'random unidentified guy in an unidentified location', let alone get a good fight out of him.

If I do manage to get in a fight I have to immediately dive below him, if I'm not already. Is this a great tactical move? Not even close! I have to dive below because I can't keep him in sight if he's against any background other than sky.

Then I get frustrated and, generally, fire up another sim. This isn't a knock on the game, and it's not an insult to the ATAG server. I love the ATAG server preferences on occasion when I have a lot of time to burn and I'm feeling rather patient.

Which brings me to my real point: we need more variety in the multiplayer choices. To be more specific, the variety is already there, we just need people to populate the servers.

The Facts:
At about 7 PST and later on Monday March 26, 2012
Il-2 Sturmovik 1946 (Hyperlobby - 170 Users in-game):
Most Popular Servers:

1)Skies~Of~Valor
21/50 Users - Disabled Realism(meaning these things are allowed): Player Icons, External Views, Hud Icons, Map Icons, etc.

2) =IRSS=Dogfight 4.11m
16/40 Users - Disabled Realism: Hud Icons, Map Icons, Player Icons, etc.

3a) -=PLR=- Server
12/20 Users - Disabled realism settings include : HUD Icons, External Views, Map Icons.

3b) Fun~4~ALL~411
12/37 Users - Disabled Realism: (almost everything, this appears to be a "newbie server") Player Icons, Hud Icons, Map Icons, All possible views, etc.

3c) Spit_vs_109_Mod
12/90 Users - Disabled Realism: None. This is the only populated "full realism" server, and it's tied for third most populated in Hyperlobby at this time.

Rise of Flight:

1) New Wings - Novice Battlegrounds
31/65 Users - Disabled Realism: Very little, as implied by the novice part of the title. Notably including all object icons.

2)Syndicate Full Realism (+AI) (website omitted)
26/61 Users - Disabled Realism: None, as titled implies this is full realism. It's also the only populated full real server in RoF currently.

3) Flying Circus
2/65 Users - Disabled Realism: All object icons, engine warm-up, and padlock.

Aces High:

482 Current Users - This is more of an MMO, so "realism settings" are as created by the developers. However, object icons - "VIEWING ENEMIES ON YOUR HUD IN YOUR BRIGHT RED LETTERS" - are ENABLED and at very high distances. This is by far the most online users of the examples, and in fact is more current online users than all of Il-2 Sturmovik 1946, Cliffs of Dover, and Rise of Flight combined.

Aces High uses a similar HUD style to Clod(with Object and other Icon's enabled). It's 98% text based and displays enemy aircraft in red. You immediately identify friend and enemy, just like with Clod's interface, and it also tells aircraft type and distance.

The Initiative:
Let's start dogfighting in the North American primetime's! (MST, PST, etc...)

Judging by the numbers I just pulled for this - ridiculously - long forum post, people want to dogfight. Object icons, Map Icons, and all of this lead to several things. More fighting being the main one. You're average sortie time drops. You're average kills per hour soars. This is not a surprise to any of you I'm sure, people want to relax and get their game on, especially on weekdays.

More people want to play these (niche) games with those icons on, in total.

These servers are already active, online and available every time you go to client search, but there's only one problem. They always have users ranging from 0/50, to 3/52. So you join ATAG, because that's an epic experience sometimes (great server, and I love it) and play, or if you want to get into a dogfight right now!.. you go back to single player, or you go to another sim.

This has taken far too long. I'm gonna make this shorter by just saying JOIN ME ON and try to unite guy's to get a consistent game together!

It has 'No Object Icons', 'No Map Icons', and 'No Map Path' Disabled. Complex Engine Management (CEM!) and Engine Temperate Effects, are ENABLED! It's still a sim even if you're aren't straining your eyes so hard you're running for the Clear Eyes after each dogfight. I'm not trying to say those options are bad, there is just no denying that this is a dividing option as far as game experience goes (see game user stats above).

TLDR:

Let's start doing more fighting and stop LOOKING FOR DOTS! Atleast on the weekdays. Preferably during North American prime-time (give or take a few thousand miles). And start using the guns on the aircraft more often!!!



Please feel free to give ideas, post criticism, and whatever else pops into you're noggin'. If you're like me and you want to get into more fights, even if it means seeing bright red letters telling you where the enemy is on your screen, post here and let's try to get something together and perhaps people will join when they see other users online.

Flying in no particular direction! Waiting to fight! I'm pretty bad, so it's easy kills! :-)

[speculum jockey]

Be prepared for the old regulars to say, "Go play Halo" or "Bye Bye".

Good thread, quite eye-opening.

[GF_Mastiff]

except @ 0800 PDT there was over 47 in Cliff of dover on ATAG

[mxmadman]

except @ 0800 PDT there was over 47 in Cliff of dover on ATAG

What exactly is that an exception to? I'm already aware of the fact that ATAG is the most popular..?

And @Spec Jockey, I'm trying to play CloD! I don't know why people would want me to leave just for trying to get guys interested in the same things to meet up.

[speculum jockey]

What exactly is that an exception to? I'm already aware of the fact that ATAG is the most popular..?

And @Spec Jockey, I'm trying to play CloD! I don't know why people would want me to leave just for trying to get guys interested in the same things to meet up.

Posting all that info makes things "too easy". Like an arcade game. :grin:

[mxmadman]

Posting all that info makes things "too easy". Like an arcade game. :grin:

Yes it makes.. spotting enemies "too easy". I don't play this game to see who's eyesight is better. I'm not playing a black dot tracking game.

Edit: You're also implying that Il-2 1946 is an arcade game, and Aces High.. RoF I might agree with you on. As stated before, the most popular servers in those games are with the settings I'm endorsing.

[SKUD]

meh
No icons for me, kills the experience. More mission/scenario tools so we can have objective-based play. How about damage scoring, make it fun for bombers and the fighters will come.

[salmo]

Spare a thought for the Aussies at GMT+10. When we're online most of the US & Europe are offline which makes a bad situation much worse. We regularly see just 2-6/99 players in ATAG & similar in Repka#1 servers.

The problem isn't so much the time-difference for us, it's the lack of a critical mass of players who play the game. This will not improve until the game is fixed & (perhaps) becomes more popular.

I'm extremely disappointed in the direction the game development is heading. I do not think that the old IL2 development model (serial releases of different theatres with expanded game content) is appropriate for todays sim market. I believe that community &/or third party involvement in expanding/improving game content while 1C & the Dev's work to improve the game core is the way to go. The sooner the Dev's release SDK's & open the game to user-made content the better.

[mxmadman]

Spare a thought for the Aussies at GMT+10. When we're online most of the US & Europe are offline which makes a bad situation much worse. We regularly see just 2-6/99 players in ATAG & similar in Repka#1 servers.

The problem isn't so much the time-difference for us, it's the lack of a critical mass of players who play the game. This will not improve until the game is fixed & (perhaps) becomes more popular.

I'm extremely disappointed in the direction the game development is heading. I do not think that the old IL2 development model (serial releases of different theatres with expanded game content) is appropriate for todays sim market. I believe that community &/or third party involvement in expanding/improving game content while 1C & the Dev's work to improve the game core is the way to go. The sooner the Dev's release SDK's & open the game to user-made content the better.

Look I totally agree with you. The servers are never full. Its a self-perpetuating evil - empty servers means people don't want to join.

The demographic is clearly posted in my original post. More people prefer object icons, and I believe its because it is a direct cause of more engagements.

If we can keep a server populated that more people enjoy, they're more likely to play multiplayer. If they play multiplayer, they're more likely to join ATAG and go full realism at some point.

Right now we're asking anyone who joins CloD multiplayer to take a plunge off the deep end. They're coming from 1946, from Aces High, and from Rise of Flight. I've already shown what most of the folks prefer.

CloD offers exactly what they're looking for, but there are no populated servers running it, therefore they just play single player or quit. No one is going to try to do what I'm doing and actually get one of those servers off the ground. We don't exactly have a huge pool of players, so I think it takes advertisement like this thread.

I appreciate everyone different preferences, this is why 'preference' is in the title. I'm simply endorsing the more popular one so that we might actually get people into MP who don't enjoy the full realism of ATAG - because there are more of them.

[CaptainDoggles]

Dogfight servers (and especially airquake servers like Skies of Valor/Skies of Fire) are good if you just want some quick turn+burn, but as soon as F6 is enabled, bouncing someone is no longer possible unless they are a noob. For me, bouncing someone unawares = good job Doggles. When the guy sees me coming = way to go Doggles you messed that one up.

So, that rules out icons and F6 servers for me.

[Peaveywolf]

To tell you the truth, I am happy for the full realism on servers. It has made me actually learn to fly these planes and am getting a lot more enjoyment out of the game rather than easy take of, follow icons on a map and point and shoot. I love the start ups and taking care of the props now. I was a tad intimidated at first, but the easiest thing to do is to quit and look for a quick start server with no management. I get more accomplishment out of it.

[carguy_]

Just make some coop missions.I`ll fly any settings.

[addman]

Spare a thought for the Aussies at GMT+10. When we're online most of the US & Europe are offline which makes a bad situation much worse. We regularly see just 2-6/99 players in ATAG & similar in Repka#1 servers.

The problem isn't so much the time-difference for us, it's the lack of a critical mass of players who play the game. This will not improve until the game is fixed & (perhaps) becomes more popular.

I'm extremely disappointed in the direction the game development is heading. I do not think that the old IL2 development model (serial releases of different theatres with expanded game content) is appropriate for todays sim market. I believe that community &/or third party involvement in expanding/improving game content while 1C & the Dev's work to improve the game core is the way to go. The sooner the Dev's release SDK's & open the game to user-made content the better.

I actually thought about this the other night, I will never complain about the NA/Euro time difference again.:)

[Volksieg]

At least I now know it's not just me....

I've been dipping my toe into multiplayer recently, even though I'm still getting used to flying on full realism (Someone on here, can't remember who, said it is the best way to learn.)...... It does seem to involve flying around and around, never seeing another plane, and waiting for my fuel to run out. lol I am sure things will improve.

I tell a lie..... I did meet at least one other player yesterday. I was approaching the English coast, had a funny feeling in the back of my mind that something wasn't right, turned around to check my six and saw a flash of gunfire and..... BAM.

Oddly enough, even being mercilessly slaughtered by an unseen opponent was rather fun! I'm beginning to suffer from Fanboyitis. :D

I'm in two minds really..... I'm not sure I could go back to less than full realism but I can see how the choice of an "Arcady" multiplayer experience could attract a lot more players.... also it would offer the chance for a bit of mindless fun before the old grey matter is ready for all that multitasking and seemingly unavoidable flaming death. :D

[Ataros]

if you want to get into a dogfight right now!.. you go back to single player, or you go to another sim.

Repka 4 is popular because of its instant action and some strong pilots. Ping for US should be lower than we usually had 10 years ago in IL-2 times, thus acceptable.

[recoilfx]

Well another solution is to reduce map size and/or clearly define hot spots for the mission. Or move the opposing bases closer to the front line.

This way you know that will be action if you go to the hot spots. More direct engagements, and less flying for the impatient. There is still element of surprise due to lack of icons.

We can already see this effect in the newer ATAG missions - there is almost always engagements over at the cluster of British ships because that's where most of the Blue objectives are at.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Spare a thought for the Aussies at GMT+10...

I do! Not fun for you guys but Im not getting up in the middle of the night to fly with you guys :-P

So, that rules out icons and F6 servers for me.

+1 Full Switch only ;)


If you want to get in action quick just fly low over enemy airbases... Garanteed to work!

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Having icons(eye polution) and other cheats completly defeats the purpose of flying a sim like CoD for me. Hell might as well fire up the wonderwomen jet with an ez button lol.

I would not recomend these cheats for noobs as they become a crutch and never develop important skills, thats why those servers are popular, its a guilded cage, the players cant go to full real servers after they get bored cause they get pawned/frustrated.

[recoilfx]

MajorBorris, this is for more of the people who don't have the time to fly a few full sorties and just want to get into some quick dog fights.

I personally don't like labels, but I realize that I currently don't have kids or after-work commitments so if mxmadman wants to organize quick dog fights - it would actually be good for the community.

Though like I said before, having smaller maps and more defined front lines will solve the lack of engagements part.

[SlipBall]

I do! Not fun for you guys but Im not getting up in the middle of the night to fly with you guys :-P



+1 Full Switch only ;)


If you want to get in action quick just fly low over enemy airbases... Garanteed to work!



Yep, low and slow curiously looking around...I was a victim :grin:

[kevchenco]

repka server is great for a quick blast in a small arena and to practice dogfighting.
Hopefully when the game is more accessible to all machines more servers will appear. Currently majority of players are enthusiasts and prefer the full realism ( although the limited control feature( orthomatic or something has not really taken off)

I like the full realism and you do get better at spotting over time. The full view screen arrows really ruin and kind of suprise and im glad that full cockpit is still on all the servers
,

[Insuber]

At least I now know it's not just me....

I've been dipping my toe into multiplayer recently, even though I'm still getting used to flying on full realism (Someone on here, can't remember who, said it is the best way to learn.)...... It does seem to involve flying around and around, never seeing another plane, and waiting for my fuel to run out. lol I am sure things will improve.

I tell a lie..... I did meet at least one other player yesterday. I was approaching the English coast, had a funny feeling in the back of my mind that something wasn't right, turned around to check my six and saw a flash of gunfire and..... BAM.

Oddly enough, even being mercilessly slaughtered by an unseen opponent was rather fun! I'm beginning to suffer from Fanboyitis. :D

I'm in two minds really..... I'm not sure I could go back to less than full realism but I can see how the choice of an "Arcady" multiplayer experience could attract a lot more players.... also it would offer the chance for a bit of mindless fun before the old grey matter is ready for all that multitasking and seemingly unavoidable flaming death. :D

Volksieg,

In the ATAG server you can have plenty of action - not quick, I admit :-) - by:

1. Flying multiengine and going at the ground targets. Blenheims, 110's, Ju-88 are relatively easy to learn.
2. Escorting your bombers: 9 out 10 they will be intercepted by enemy fighters, and
3. Waiting for AI bombers, they follow predictable paths and normally fly around 4 km.
4. Harassing enemy bases ... their CAP will be on your 6 in 30 secs as angry wasps, you'd better go in 2-3 and practice deflection shooting a lot :-D. Look at MK.Mr.X videos on youtube be for hints :-)

To do the above you need to study a bit the map, and understand the hot spots.

Cheers,
Ins

[Volksieg]

Cheers for the tips, Insuber! I definitely need to study that map thoroughly as I was finding, lastnight, that every time I heard bombers needed escorting, by the time I'd figured out where I was and where I needed to go, they were history. :D

Now all I need to do is learn how not to die hideously! :D

[mxmadman]

Well, a lot of folks didn't actually read my original post, which is ok because its long, but allow me to reiterate some things:

1) Repka server. I know its there, thanks for the advice. Its always empty when I'm on, and when its not its password protected.

2) the server I am asking you to join has CEM and temperature management. You're still flying the exact same planes. This has nothing to with newb vs. Ace. If playing in ATAG made my eyesight better I wouldn't have to play with a bottle of Clear Eyes on my desk.

3) I didn't come here complaining about the full realism preference. I already know you guys enjoy it, looking for dots for an hour or so. That's fine with me. To call me a cheater (which one poster did) is just idiotic.

This is about how you choose to play the game. I like full realism minus icons, and that is my choice. I need other people who choose the same thing to join me, because a 1v0 dogfight is boring.

I did manage to get others to join last night and it was great. Between 2 and 4 players, and I had more action and more fun than I've had since purchasing the game. It woldve been a lot more fun with more players so we could fill the whole map though.

[Volksieg]

I hear ya!

I'll probably give it a go.... my eyesight isn't what it used to be either :D

If anything, it can be looked on as good training as, what with the, frankly bizarre, AI offline it is hard to get in some full realism practice in dogfights for a new pilot when you either don't see any enemies or, as was the case with me lastnight, you were obviously being stalked by a dot for some time. lol Of course, once I'm fully trained up (And have got some better glasses) I intend to be the stalky dot ruining everyone's hopes and dreams :D

[SiThSpAwN]

Initially on the ATAG servers I found the same issue, I could never find any targets, even AI bombers, and if I did find a fight it usually consisted of someone jumping me from behind and me slowly fading to black and plummeting into the ocean.

As I have continued to play, and added a person I fly with on a regular basis I have become more involved, findin fights (and not being a target) Now I find it much easier to jump on ATAG and find some action. Sometimes its not as easy as other, but for the most part I do.

All that said, I wouldnt mind another server that just was one giant furball will no real travel time, I guess its just the mood I am in, sometimes I want to give my TrackIR a work out and search around for those little specs in the skies. I could see wanting to jump on for some instant action at times as well, I will see if I can join you some night as well.

[Volksieg]

It's got to be said, mind.... every cloud has a silver lining! My complete inability to find any opponents online means my multiplayer FPS is superb. LMAO

[mxmadman]

As I stated in my original post - I like ATAG. I like it exactly the way it is and don't want it to change so that I can play it when I have several hours to burn and don't care how many fights I get into.

However, there's no doubt that even with just one other player and icons on, it was a lot more fun in a much much shorter period of time.

[BH_woodstock]

think about this,what does il2 1946 have that Cliffs of Dover dont??A meeting place!!!A community where pilots can talk, chat, and compare fps,settings,etc..If i dont see pilots in servers just like most are saying here.i either play single player or join the most populated one i can find and usually will fly for a bit, get bored and move on to another game.CloD does NOT have a meeting place!!
Il2 would NOT have survived 10 years without it.1st we had UBI lobby wich was an ok starting point for muiltyplayer experience.Then one day I found Hyperlobby and never looked back, not even once.In my opinion and this is "just" my opinion with all the support that HL has with the community CloD would be far more advanced and fixed and a lot more players if everyone would use a lobby or meeting place such as HL.Am i trying to endorse Hyperlobby? Yes i am.Lets give credit where it is due.Il2 would not have survived this long with out a community.Cliffs of Dover NEVER should have went with "Steam"...It "should" have went to the place where it belongs with a more dedicated community.And i am NOT just saying this because of myself being part of HL staff. "CloD" should have had hyperlobby on the box cover NOT steam.What it all comes down to is that CloD needs more than just a "server" list.it needs friends a common meeting ground, a place to thrive!


can i get an Amen??

BH_woodstock
HYPER/STAFF

amd dual core 5400+
6gb ram
gtx460se
Win7 Ultimate
MSSWFF2 (stick)
Trackir

[mxmadman]

Your points above (meant to quote you but I'm on a phone and don't want to go back), this is why I made this point

If you want to reach the clod 'community', you post here. I'm trying to gather a sector of our community that I know is out there.

If you're able to play around 5pm pst (gmt-8 I believe - arizona doesn't have daylight savings time so I get confused) come check it out if that's the kind of server you enjoy on occasion.

[SlipBall]

think about this,what does il2 1946 have that Cliffs of Dover dont??A meeting place!!!A community where pilots can talk, chat, and compare fps,settings,etc..If i dont see pilots in servers just like most are saying here.i either play single player or join the most populated one i can find and usually will fly for a bit, get bored and move on to another game.CloD does NOT have a meeting place!!
Il2 would NOT have survived 10 years without it.1st we had UBI lobby wich was an ok starting point for muiltyplayer experience.Then one day I found Hyperlobby and never looked back, not even once.In my opinion and this is "just" my opinion with all the support that HL has with the community CloD would be far more advanced and fixed and a lot more players if everyone would use a lobby or meeting place such as HL.Am i trying to endorse Hyperlobby? Yes i am.Lets give credit where it is due.Il2 would not have survived this long with out a community.Cliffs of Dover NEVER should have went with "Steam"...It "should" have went to the place where it belongs with a more dedicated community.And i am NOT just saying this because of myself being part of HL staff. "CloD" should have had hyperlobby on the box cover NOT steam.What it all comes down to is that CloD needs more than just a "server" list.it needs friends a common meeting ground, a place to thrive!


can i get an Amen??

BH_woodstock
HYPER/STAFF

amd dual core 5400+
6gb ram
gtx460se
Win7 Ultimate
MSSWFF2 (stick)
Trackir


I think possibly "Steam" was the choice, so as to help keep the game clean/fair.

...I could be wrong

[Dr str@nglove]

i have an idea,would it be possible to tigh in the radars with the mini map so you could see enemy and friendly icons on the map,including your own ac,this would at least give you a rough idea of where the action is,also if the radars were destroyed you would loose coverage for that particular area.This would also lead to a more tactical game imo,just wondered if any of the atag guys would know if this was possible via a script

[mxmadman]

The map icons for your own aircraft and friendly aircraft is already in game, no coding required. Its actually the exact reason I'm trying to promote this server

However, it doesn't show enemy aircraft, and there are no radar towers. If you think about it, showing enemy aircraft would end up badly because you could see exactly where the enemy is taking off and they'd never have a fighting chance to get speed or alt.

There's nothing wrong with it, but seeing enemy aircraft on the map is a little too far in my opinion, unless limited by range, and I'm not sure that's possible without coding, which is not something I'm capable of.

Edit: Just want to clarify, on you can see: friendly aircraft, your own aircraft, and Non-piloted enemy aircraft on the map (meaning planes that are objectives to be strafed, but will not be flown by ai or players)

You can also see friwendly and enemy aircraft information on screen in game. So if you see a 109, in fron of you, it will show in blue letter 109-e3, 2.2km.

You CANNOT see enemy aircraft (player or ai) on the map.

[von Brühl]

Lost my interest at "Let's start dogfighting..."

too much airquake now.

[mxmadman]

Lost my interest at "Let's start dogfighting..."

too much airquake now.

Do you always comment on things you didn't read and also don't interest you?.. seems pretty boring, but you are more than welcome to going back to, well, not dogfighting, if that's your choice.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I think this is a good initiative, but it sounds like it was started because you seemed to not find anyone in the server? Granted I have flown online for more hours than I care to admit, even with 10 people in the server I can find a dogfight in usually less than 10 minutes.

The biggest thing with a server like ours is studying the brief/map/objectives. That gives you a good idea of where you will meet the certain types of planes that are in the air. I always check the netstats just to see what's flying. If there's 7 blemmys in the air, there's a good bet that they will be skimming the water trying to bomb all the objectives. Same thing goes for 110's/88's etc. So knowing where the objectives are also gives you a good idea of where flight paths may occur.

The other thing, even though you may not want to, is turn your resolution down a notch. The graphics engine has many LOD problems. If you want to spot contacts easier, the best way is to lower your resolution to a "this doesn't look so bad" state.

As to your thread, I think it's bound to happen, you given some flak. Many people buy a flight sim this complex to try and get just a touch of the feeling a RL WWII pilot would have had it. If quick dogfights are your game, there are many other WWII sims out there that cater to that specific thing. I just don't think the type of popularity you're hoping for is going to happen, at the very least, until some of the major glaring issues of the sim get fixed and the more casual gamers start buying it.

But it never hurts to try!

[mxmadman]

@bliss I appreciate the concern, but no that's definitely not my only problem. I have little trouble finding the dots and most occasions, its keeping them in sight for a period of time that gets under my skin the most, especially during a fight.

Also, I doubt telling me to go back to another sim helps anyone. If you want to cut off your MP experience to the (obviously) larger demographic of sim pilots, then that's the route to take. As I stated in the OP, I normally do end up going to another sim.

Now I'm trying to do something to change the myth that only the most hardcore sim-nerds can enjoy clod. It has these settings already implemented for a reason, and these servers were created for the same reason.

Edit: ill just be blatently honest, I didn't post this for any help on the ATAG server, and I'm not looking for aband-aid to fix my poblem, because CLOD already has exactly what I'm looking for. I'm here to get the guys to join me.

Unfortunately the people who joined the server last night with me had no idea I made a post on the forums, they just joined because that's also what they want to do.

Chances are that a lot of the players thos post was intended for have already moved on to another game because people like you told them to. Or, like my enounters last night, they don't even bother with forums.

[SlipBall]

@bliss I appreciate the concern, but no that's definitely not my only problem. I have little trouble finding the dots and most occasions, its keeping them in sight for a period of time that gets under my skin the most, especially during a fight.

Also, I doubt telling me to go back to another sim helps anyone. If you want to cut off your MP experience to the (obviously) larger demographic of sim pilots, then that's the route to take. As I stated in the OP, I normally do end up going to another sim.

Now I'm trying to do something to change the myth that only the most hardcore sim-nerds can enjoy clod. It has these settings already implemented for a reason, and these servers were created for the same reason.


What works for me is after taking my eyes off of the aircraft, I look where it should be when I look again to pick up on it. Kind of like shooting an arrow.

[mxmadman]

What works for me is after taking my eyes off of the aircraft, I look where it should be when I look again to pick up on it. Kind of like shooting an arrow.

Hey Slip I just edited that post to add more that address' your post.

Again, I'm not trying to seem unappreciative, but I've already found the answer to what I seek, and its located under 'options'.

This way I can play the way I enjoy to play. Thankfully, many people agree with me in every other game in our genre, now I just have to get them to come out of the woodwork. The numbers do not lie.

[ATAG_Bliss]

@bliss I appreciate the concern, but no that's definitely not my only problem. I have little trouble finding the dots and most occasions, its keeping them in sight for a period of time that gets under my skin the most, especially during a fight.

Also, I doubt telling me to go back to another sim helps anyone. If you want to cut off your MP experience to the (obviously) larger demographic of sim pilots, then that's the route to take. As I stated in the OP, I normally do end up going to another sim.

Now I'm trying to do something to change the myth that only the most hardcore sim-nerds can enjoy clod. It has these settings already implemented for a reason, and these servers were created for the same reason.

Edit: ill just be blatently honest, I didn't post this for any help on the ATAG server, and I'm not looking for aband-aid to fix my poblem, because CLOD already has exactly what I'm looking for. I'm here to get the guys to join me.

Unfortunately the people who joined the server last night with me had no idea I made a post on the forums, they just joined because that's also what they want to do.

Chances are that a lot of the players thos post was intended for have already moved on to another game because people like you told them to. Or, like my enounters last night, they don't even bother with forums.

I didn't say go back to and say fly another sim to jab at you, I simply stated there are other sims out there that cater to your style of play. Therefore those sims have a much huger population of people wanting to play with visual aids/relaxed settings.

If the OP had said that's how you enjoy playing the game instead of saying "I can't find anyone on ATAG" therefore I want to play with visual aids on, you didn't expect people those that have been playing online for a while to give you insight on how to find, spot, track targets?

I would suggest changing the thread to something along the lines of this is how I want to play the sim. Who else would like to join me? Throwing in excuses why, especially with the caveat that you can't find anyone on full switch servers, would only lead to those people like myself who have no problem spotting contacts at 25km away (server setting) on full switch servers trying to give you an insight to fix your problem.

Sorry for trying to help or give you a suggestion to a problem that many of us don't have.

[mxmadman]

Bliss I don't believe you actually read anything, so ill ask you to stop cluttering my thread.

I do not have a problem spotting the dots.

That's not why I made the thread. I made the thread to show people that populating one of these servers is good for the health of the game as well as to gather the people to actually populate one.

I do not go to your site and bash you for liking the settings the way you like them, and as I've stated atleast 3 times in this thread - I LIKE ATAG. I LIKE IT EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS AND INTEND TO CONTINUE PLAYING THERE ON OCCASION. I ALSO ENJOY PLAYING WITH CERTAIN SETTINGS DISABLED.

Now, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to understand that. There's nothing wrong with having TWO populated servers, its not like I'm telling you that you have to come along.

Edit: also, other sims do cater to this particular thing - in the exact same way that clod does. Same options, and more people choose to play with the settings I'm endorsing here. Some have literally the same names for the same settings!

[ATAG_Doc]

MajorBorris, this is for more of the people who don't have the time to fly a few full sorties and just want to get into some quick dog fights.

I personally don't like labels, but I realize that I currently don't have kids or after-work commitments so if mxmadman wants to organize quick dog fights - it would actually be good for the community.

Though like I said before, having smaller maps and more defined front lines will solve the lack of engagements part.


There are servers that specialize in this for them.

On the channel map now you can get instant action.

You know where the enemy bases are just loiter around and let them see you.

I like it to be as real as I read in the books I am reading. Not a quarters arcade machine at a store.

[ATAG_Bliss]

The Monologue: (Optional)
Let me explain where I'm coming from: I've just finished work. I'm sittin' here enjoying an adult beverage and thinking about what I want to do in Clod but can't. I have just a short amount of time to play (today I do, but not always), and I'd like to jump in multiplayer and have some fun before I log off to do other things.

But when I jump into the ATAG server, I end up flying around almost aimlessly chasing around 'Yun'ku's 88!' or the more popular, "...got a guy out of in front of me here.. somewhere" from a helpful teammate on TS3.

I do this for a long while. I normally end up running out of fuel, and/or being so devastated by flack, that I must return home. Sometimes, I fail to even spot the notorious "Yun'kuh" or the even more illusive 'random unidentified guy in an unidentified location', let alone get a good fight out of him.

If I do manage to get in a fight I have to immediately dive below him, if I'm not already. Is this a great tactical move? Not even close! I have to dive below because I can't keep him in sight if he's against any background other than sky.

Then I get frustrated and, generally, fire up another sim. This isn't a knock on the game, and it's not an insult to the ATAG server. I love the ATAG server preferences on occasion when I have a lot of time to burn and I'm feeling rather patient.

Which brings me to my real point: we need more variety in the multiplayer choices. To be more specific, the variety is already there, we just need people to populate the servers.

I read quite well - thank you. Perhaps you should go back and read what you wrote. The stuff in bold - the problems you were having. That's what I'm responding to. Perhaps you can calm your temper a bit and realize that I never took a jab at the way you fly, the settings you prefer, or any of the above. I only offered help, not only in finding more players, but in making it easier to track planes.

Maybe next time you'll say what you really mean in your thread starting post.

Also, attacking people trying to help you is really good form.

[Chivas]

At the moment the sim isn't stable enough, has low fps, and missing or unworking features which widdles down the amount of flyers considerably. Once the performance patch is released, major features improved, improvments to mission building, and documentation to make mission building easier, then we will see a huge increase in servers with a quite a few different difficulty settings for most people to enjoy. That said the basic mission building is quite easy, but there is documentation needed and tools to make more compicated missions with triggers easier for the masses to create.

Its just that the majority of those building servers and playing at the moment just happen enjoy more difficult view settings. Maybe its just the more dedicated combat flight simmers know that you need very strong systems to run complex sims well. The server dynamics will soon change when simmers with average systems can run the sim well.

[mxmadman]

I read quite well - thank you. Perhaps you should go back and read what you wrote. The stuff in bold - the problems you were having. That's what I'm responding to. Perhaps you can calm your temper a bit and realize that I never took a jab at the way you fly, the settings you prefer, or any of the above. I only offered help, not only in finding more players, but in making it easier to track planes.

Maybe next time you'll say what you really mean in your thread starting post.

Also, attacking people trying to help you is really good form.

Did you skip the rest of the post where I posted exactly what I was asking for, and none of them involved your alleged help in tracking enemies?

Correct answer: I did not ask for help in tracking enemies.

Telling me to go to another game is not helpful, and in fact it hurts the community every time someone even says it, because more than likely someone with the same tastes will read that one day, and now you've lost a potential customer, and atleast 2 multiplayer combatants that could have eventually populated your server.

Try to stay on topic, which is server option preferences, and ideas on populating multiple servers to get people to actually log in when they go to Client search instead of just seeing ATAG as the only populated server and then logging off.

I said exactly what I meant in my forum post, you only quoted and remembered what you chose to.

I think I'll take your advice on creating a thread intended only to get people to join me in Sim-Outhouse. I'm logging in now =D

[mxmadman]

At the moment the sim isn't stable enough, has low fps, and missing or unworking features which widdles down the amount of flyers considerably. Once the performance patch is released, major features improved, improvments to mission building, and documentation to make mission building easier, then we will see a huge increase in servers with a quite a few different difficulty settings for most people to enjoy. That said the basic mission building is quite easy, but there is documentation needed and tools to make more compicated missions with triggers easier for the masses to create.

Its just that the majority of those building servers and playing at the moment just happen enjoy more difficult view settings. Maybe its just the more dedicated combat flight simmers know that you need very strong systems to run complex sims well. The server dynamics will soon change when simmers with average systems can run the sim well.

That may be true, but there are already servers with the settings I've mentioned - specifically Sim-Outhouse being the one with the best ping at my location. I invite you to join me if you enjoy similar settings, and if not then enjoy whatever it is you end up doing instead.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I read the rest of it, of course. And the rest of it were in direct correlation of the beginning portion. "To summarize - you basically said this is what happens when you log into our server and therefore I don't have any fun. Who wants to play with this type of settings?"

Unless I didn't learn anything at all in my 6 years of post education, that looks just like a cause an effect post to me. In other words you basically gave the reason why you don't like the settings/server and would rather have a quick blast type atmosphere.

About the other sims, did you happen to read either my or Chivas response to that????... Where we both said that the game needs to be fixed first and only the most hardcore of sim fans are playing it right now because of all the glaring issues. I'd love to see every single server in the game at max capacity and I think it will get there some day. But if you think it's going to happen at this very instant, you're sadly mistaken.

As I said earlier, other people will come when the game matures.

[mxmadman]

I read the rest of it, of course. And the rest of it were in direct correlation of the beginning portion. "To summarize - you basically said this is what happens when you log into our server and therefore I don't have any fun. Who wants to play with this type of settings?"

Unless I didn't learn anything at all in my 6 years of post education, that looks just like a cause an effect post to me. In other words you basically gave the reason why you don't like the settings/server and would rather have a quick blast type atmosphere.

About the other sims, did you happen to read either my or Chivas response to that????... Where we both said that the game needs to be fixed first and only the most hardcore of sim fans are playing it right now because of all the glaring issues. I'd love to see every single server in the game at max capacity and I think it will get there some day. But if you think it's going to happen at this very instant, you're sadly mistaken.

As I said earlier, other people will come when the game matures.

You don't need any post education when the first sentence says "this is where I'm coming from". I told you flat out that it was cause and effect. The cause is a difference in preference, the effect is me trying to gather folks who have the same preference. That's where the 6 years of post education should have come in handy.

If you want to see populated servers, stop telling people to leave.

At any rate, I'm currently sitting in hoping my labor has paid off. I invite anyone who wants some action to come join me.

Edit: Also, I'm thoroughly enjoying CloD in it's current state. I enjoy CEM and temperature management. Am I one of the most hardcore sim fans you know? I think that might be a contradiction to you also saying "other less serious sims" might cater to me more...

[ATAG_Dutch]

I'm just hoping that mxmadman isn't someone I know. And respect.

[ATAG_Bliss]

You don't need any post education when the first sentence says "this is where I'm coming from". I told you verbatim that it was cause and effect. The cause is a difference in preference, the effect is me trying to gather folks who have the same preference. That's where the 6 years of post education should have come in handy.

If you want to see populated servers, stop telling people to leave.

At any rate, I'm currently sitting in Sim-Outhouse hoping my labor has paid off. I invite anyone who wants some action to come join me.

Edit: Also, I'm thoroughly enjoying CloD in it's current state. I enjoy CEM and temperature management. Am I one of the most hardcore sim fans you know? I think that might be a contradiction to you also saying "other less serious sims" might cater to me more...

Good deal. Now that you have an understanding on that aspect. Maybe then you can see why others that don't have the problems you are having chime in trying to help you out? Once you understand that, you'll might have an understanding of why I was trying to help you out.

[ATAG_Doc]

We will get there! After the next update is out you will see growth. If you don't see anyone on your server now you will get there. Just hang in there they will come!

I will come visit your server!!

[mxmadman]

Good deal. Now that you have an understanding on that aspect. Maybe then you can see why others that don't have the problems you are having chime in trying to help you out? Once you understand that, you'll might have an understanding of why I was trying to help you out.

Dude you're missing my point. I already know what full realism is about. I've heard what you guys are saying, it's not news to me though. I prefer the big red hud (markers ON SCREEN!). I proved with the stats that other people like the big red hud.

It puts a giant red marker where to shoot, and yes I like it on weeknights. It produces shorter sortiers, and more kills and deaths per hour. I get to use the trigger a lot more.

That's not a sin!

And I proved with numbers that those people MUST BUY THIS GAME TOO. There is no doubt! It would be silly to think there are that many more of us (WW2 era flight combat simmers, or in whatever particular genre you see fit at a similar level of specificity) out there, and yet we see maybe 100 people online at a time. This is the newest prettiest and most sophisticated thing out there, and it's not perfect but it runs.

So I'll bet a lot of the folks I just generally defined already own the game, and they boot it up every so often for whatever reason. They're on the fence between playing Cliffs of Dover, or RoF, or 1946, or Aces High. These guys like the settings I've described, and I tried to prove that with numbers so you guys would see my point.

The problem is no one wants to be the only guy in the server.

I'm trying to do something that no one wants to do, and now I've just evoked wrath from the "faithful purists" by trying to get a group together, and maybe get some people who wouldn't always play with these settings, to come and help me get it started.

It will help bridge a gap and I think could definitely support itself on its own from the people who are moving from the games that I've given the statistics for.

I'm sorry for getting a little irritated, but if I could just get you to understand I'm really not trying to get better at spotting the enemies. Whether or not I become good enough at it to be an Ace does not matter to me. It's the gameplay that it produces - THAT is what I want.

[mxmadman]

I'm just hoping that mxmadman isn't someone I know. And respect.

:rolleyes: I must have been so terribly disrespectful to you.

[ATAG_Dutch]

I wouldn't know mate, your tag isn't one I recognise. But I have this sneaking feeling.....;)

[mxmadman]

I wouldn't know mate, your tag isn't one I recognise. But I have this sneaking feeling.....;)

No clan affiliation and madman is a pretty common game tag. I'm fairly sure whomever you could be confusing me with are not one in the same (see forum join date, and posts, etc.). I play online as Madman. I think it shows a little square next to it because my steam name has a character the game doesn't recognize.

But, seriously? To think that if I was someone you did have time to get to know and respect, that this would be something you could not stand to hear from a close friend... confuses me to a degree. So, if I said something so offensive I apologize, it was not my intention. If you would, please, be more specific I'll attempt to explain myself in defense.

But, I now believe you guys, that this does not really have any good possibility of succeeding, so I will give up and stop trying to get more folks to join in.

[ATAG_Dutch]

To think that if I was someone you did have time to get to know and respect, that this would be something you could not stand to hear from a close friend... confuses me to a degree. So, if I said something so offensive I apologize, it was not my intention. If you would, please, be more specific I'll attempt to explain myself in defense.

Not offended at all my friend! I haven't offered an opinion either way as far as the thread topic is concerned. But I'd simply say 'To each their own and the Devil take the hindmost!'

See you on the server soon mate! ;)

[mxmadman]

Not offended at all my friend! I haven't offered an opinion either way as far as the thread topic is concerned. But I'd simply say 'To each their own and the Devil take the hindmost!'

See you on the server soon mate! ;)

Good to hear. I don't know if you noticed ;) but I give your clan server a lot of praise. It's king for a reason. Wait until those arcade-lovin' newbies show up and give it a run for it's money though! :grin:

At least I'm not flying alone in an empty server anymore... HAHAH! I'm too old to be doin' this crap..

[Thee_oddball]

This is such an old and tired argument...full switch vs dealer's choice..Well here are the facts...and I do mean facts just not my opinion.

A. whatever!! gets player/pilots into our little niche market is welcome! someone may start in airquake get bored and say ...hey maybe ill try fullswitch! which means there still here unlike a lot of games where once you hit the peak there is no where else to go....except to another game.

B. when the fight starts whether you are on a fullswitch or other you had better know your plane your tactics and what you can do...if not your dead.


the online community is sooooooooo small there is no room for posturing...support each other and sell the game to friends however we can because the WW2 genre is a dieing market and the WW2 flight market is even worse.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Heh heh! Understanding is achieved. You can't say fairer than that.

Good night me ole pal! :grin:

[Thee_oddball]

Heh heh! Understanding is achieved. You can't say fairer than that.

Good night me ole pal! :grin:

did you think he was MADMAN from II/jg53?

[ATAG_Dutch]

did you think he was MADMAN from II/jg53?

No no no, I think he's someone quite different. In lots of ways. Haha, no offence erm, mxmadman.

[mxmadman]

No no no, I think he's someone quite different. In lots of ways. Haha, no offence erm, mxmadman.

:rolleyes: Didn't we already kiss and make up on the last page? No need to get passive aggressive and start anything back up.

I'm being serious though. If I said something that was insensitive, hurtful, or offensive I ask that you please elaborate so that I can try to explain myself.

If not I'll assume this other Madman is not a good fellow and that your last comment was a compliment... :grin:

[ATAG_Dutch]

Oh stop it! I was replying to Thee Oddball as you well know. :grin:

P.S. Assume away to your heart's content!

[mxmadman]

Oh stop it! I was replying to Thee Oddball as you well know. :grin:

I have a story to lighten the mood - the day I met my closest friend of the last 14 years, we bloodied eachothers noses.

Maybe this is just the start of a beautiful bromance between us Dutch, you never know. :cool:

[ATAG_Dutch]

Maybe this is just the start of a beautiful bromance between us Dutch, you never know. :cool:

'Bromance'? What's a 'bromance'?? Or is that just a typo?

Anyway about, propositions are against forum rules, so bugger off!

Actually I don't know if they are or not, but if they're not they should be. :)

[mxmadman]

'Bromance'? What's a 'bromance'?? Or is that just a typo?

If it is, fine, if it's not, bugger off! I don't make myself available to any forum hero you know.:rolleyes:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bromance

There's always a lot lost in translation, I suppose.

I can't tell if you're being serious anymore. I do think we have gotten far enough off track to say this is no longer a productive discussion in terms of the server populations in MP.

I do hope if more people out there would be inclined to participate in a dogfight style server that they will speak up so that we can organize it! Simply stated, of course...

I hope you'll see from what I've written, minus a few possibly snide comments, that I was putting a sincere effort to unite a handful or more of like-minded simmers and with good intentions.

I'm going to remove any mention of server name now, as to no longer affiliate myself with their server, and avoid inadvertently harming their server.

See ya later guys.

[ATAG_Dutch]

[QUOTE=mxmadman;403560] I can't tell if you're being serious anymore.[QUOTE]

I wasn't to begin with, I wasn't throughout, and I'm not not now either! But Good Night and sleep well anyway. ;)

Edit: Just read the definition. Ew. That's some nasty stuff there.

[mxmadman]

[QUOTE=mxmadman;403560] I can't tell if you're being serious anymore.[QUOTE]

I wasn't to begin with, I wasn't throughout, and I'm not not now either! But Good Night and sleep well anyway. ;)

Pfft. :cool: I totally knew that. I think with the way this thread ended up going it's only right to remove any server names to prevent any affiliation. I really did not imagine it going like this from the very first post.

Anyway, I've spent all of my day's playing time in the forum. I will most likely check back in when I'm at the office in the coming days as I don't ever recall spending this much energy on an internet forum.

...baaaack toooo the office.. :evil:

[ATAG_Dutch]

Anyway, I've spent all of my day's playing time in the forum.

Shame. Me too. Sad, eh?

[furbs]

what? eh? what was all that about? are you two dating now or what?

[Insuber]

let’s face it, sitting on a computer debating about the game is much more fun than actually playing it.

[Thee_oddball]

what? eh? what was all that about? are you two dating now or what?
didnt you recieve the wedding invitation?:o

[EvilJoven]

The fact that the 'CloD community' is this forum is incredibly pathetic.

mxmadman has a point. Forcing this amount of realism is driving players away. My computer monitor doesn't compare to looking out of a real cockpit at all, a lot of engagements exploit the terrible visibility in this game with that 'come up from under the tree canopy' reverse bounce etc.

To be honest, even if CloD ran perfectly, in it's present state I wouldn't bother launching it. The only reason why I haven't deleted it is because I don't need the hard drive space yet. It's first on my list though.

The flight sim community I'm a part of has basically written off CloD, this dev team in general and the only time we spend discussing the game is to mock you people in the Banana forums. We're pretty much waiting for the rest of the team to collapse, fold and sell the CloD assets to a studio like 777 or ED, who've already taken on a few of the better CloD devs who have jumped ship and know how to make good games.

Until then enjoy waiting 5 minutes for your oil to get to the right temperature, not being able to see anything and fellating the modellers here whenever they post a new picture of a barn or hedge.

[Wolf_Rider]

^
^
^
Well, that was totally unneccessary

[Ataros]

@ EvilJoven
You should definitely get into WoP beta. Likeminded people like this game a lot ;) GL

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

http://img.wikinut.com/img/3blcdooho5ddy3q2/jpeg/0/I-have-a-dream-today.jpeg

The Monologue: (Optional)
Let me explain where I'm coming from: I've just finished work. I'm sittin' here enjoying an adult beverage and thinking about what I want to do in Clod but can't. I have just a short amount of time to play (today I do, :grin: but not always), and I'd like to jump in multiplayer and have some fun before I log off to do other things.

But when I jump into the ATAG server, I end up flying around almost aimlessly chasing around 'Yun'ku's 88!' or the more popular, "...got a guy out of in front of me here.. somewhere" from a helpful teammate on TS3.

I do this for a long while. I normally end up running out of fuel, and/or being so devastated by flack, that I must return home. Sometimes, I fail to even spot the notorious "Yun'kuh" or the even more illusive 'random unidentified guy in an unidentified location', let alone get a good fight out of him.

If I do manage to get in a fight I have to immediately dive below him, if I'm not already. Is this a great tactical move? Not even close! I have to dive below because I can't keep him in sight if he's against any background other than sky.

Then I get frustrated and, generally, fire up another sim. This isn't a knock on the game, and it's not an insult to the ATAG server. I love the ATAG server preferences on occasion when I have a lot of time to burn and I'm feeling rather patient.

Which brings me to my real point: we need more variety in the multiplayer choices. To be more specific, the variety is already there, we just need people to populate the servers.

The Facts:
At about 7 PST and later on Monday March 26, 2012
Il-2 Sturmovik 1946 (Hyperlobby - 170 Users in-game):
Most Popular Servers:

1)Skies~Of~Valor
21/50 Users - Disabled Realism(meaning these things are allowed): Player Icons, External Views, Hud Icons, Map Icons, etc.

2) =IRSS=Dogfight 4.11m
16/40 Users - Disabled Realism: Hud Icons, Map Icons, Player Icons, etc.

3a) -=PLR=- Server
12/20 Users - Disabled realism settings include : HUD Icons, External Views, Map Icons.

3b) Fun~4~ALL~411
12/37 Users - Disabled Realism: (almost everything, this appears to be a "newbie server") Player Icons, Hud Icons, Map Icons, All possible views, etc.

3c) Spit_vs_109_Mod
12/90 Users - Disabled Realism: None. This is the only populated "full realism" server, and it's tied for third most populated in Hyperlobby at this time.

Rise of Flight:

1) New Wings - Novice Battlegrounds
31/65 Users - Disabled Realism: Very little, as implied by the novice part of the title. Notably including all object icons.

2)Syndicate Full Realism (+AI) (website omitted)
26/61 Users - Disabled Realism: None, as titled implies this is full realism. It's also the only populated full real server in RoF currently.

3) Flying Circus
2/65 Users - Disabled Realism: All object icons, engine warm-up, and padlock.

Aces High:

482 Current Users - This is more of an MMO, so "realism settings" are as created by the developers. However, object icons - "VIEWING ENEMIES ON YOUR HUD IN YOUR BRIGHT RED LETTERS" - are ENABLED and at very high distances. This is by far the most online users of the examples, and in fact is more current online users than all of Il-2 Sturmovik 1946, Cliffs of Dover, and Rise of Flight combined.

Aces High uses a similar HUD style to Clod(with Object and other Icon's enabled). It's 98% text based and displays enemy aircraft in red. You immediately identify friend and enemy, just like with Clod's interface, and it also tells aircraft type and distance.

The Initiative:
Let's start dogfighting in the North American primetime's! (MST, PST, etc...)

Judging by the numbers I just pulled for this - ridiculously - long forum post, people want to dogfight. Object icons, Map Icons, and all of this lead to several things. More fighting being the main one. You're average sortie time drops. You're average kills per hour soars. This is not a surprise to any of you I'm sure, people want to relax and get their game on, especially on weekdays.

More people want to play these (niche) games with those icons on, in total.

These servers are already active, online and available every time you go to client search, but there's only one problem. They always have users ranging from 0/50, to 3/52. So you join ATAG, because that's an epic experience sometimes (great server, and I love it) and play, or if you want to get into a dogfight right now!.. you go back to single player, or you go to another sim.

This has taken far too long. I'm gonna make this shorter by just saying JOIN ME ON and try to unite guy's to get a consistent game together!

It has 'No Object Icons', 'No Map Icons', and 'No Map Path' Disabled. Complex Engine Management (CEM!) and Engine Temperate Effects, are ENABLED! It's still a sim even if you're aren't straining your eyes so hard you're running for the Clear Eyes after each dogfight. I'm not trying to say those options are bad, there is just no denying that this is a dividing option as far as game experience goes (see game user stats above).

TLDR:

Let's start doing more fighting and stop LOOKING FOR DOTS! Atleast on the weekdays. Preferably during North American prime-time (give or take a few thousand miles). And start using the guns on the aircraft more often!!!



Please feel free to give ideas, post criticism, and whatever else pops into you're noggin'. If you're like me and you want to get into more fights, even if it means seeing bright red letters telling you where the enemy is on your screen, post here and let's try to get something together and perhaps people will join when they see other users online.

Flying in no particular direction! Waiting to fight! I'm pretty bad, so it's easy kills! :-)

My five cents? Here you are:

I think that there are servers for quick dogfighting and servers for those who just like realism. Why do we need to turn any server to a quick dogfight server and leaving the ppl who prefer realism (even if they are a minority) with nothing? ATAG has its audience with realism settings and me personally I overall prefer flying on this kind of server like my squadron mates even if occasionally I go for a quicky on the reduced realism df servers.

Full realism servers do have their audience. The lack of players currently may be rather attributed with the still missing patch.

[KG26_Alpha]

My five cents? Here you are:

I think that there are servers for quick dogfighting and servers for those who just like realism. Why do we need to turn any server to a quick dogfight server and leaving the ppl who prefer realism (even if they are a minority) with nothing? ATAG has its audience with realism settings and me personally I overall prefer flying on this kind of server like my squadron mates even if occasionally I go for a quicky on the reduced realism df servers.

Full realism servers do have their audience. The lack of players currently may be rather attributed with the still missing patch.

Runs in >>

Also lack of comprehensive CooP mode.

<< Runs out

:)

[mxmadman]

My five cents? Here you are:

I think that there are servers for quick dogfighting and servers for those who just like realism. Why do we need to turn any server to a quick dogfight server and leaving the ppl who prefer realism (even if they are a minority) with nothing? ATAG has its audience with realism settings and me personally I overall prefer flying on this kind of server like my squadron mates even if occasionally I go for a quicky on the reduced realism df servers.

Full realism servers do have their audience. The lack of players currently may be rather attributed with the still missing patch.

I agree, there is no reason to change any servers realism preference. There is no need. The servers already exist with those settings.

Since I posted this I've actually noticed an increase in popularity for those servers. In all likelihood it had nothing to do with my posts, but its a good thing none-the-less.

Of course more total players will equal more players in other servers, but my idea was to gather the ones who are already here or who don't normally participate in Clod multiplayer.

[Chivas]

There will be plenty of servers with most of the options you prefer when the sim is optimized with the next patch. If the servers available don't suit your needs then start your own if possible. It appears that at the moment people with systems that can play the sim happen to like near full real settings. Like I said that will change and the pendulum will swing the other way when the sim is optimized. Just like the IL-2 1946, where most servers use relaxed settings.

[6S.Manu]

Those settings are about full difficulty, not full realism.

Visibility in game is really different from visibility in real life.

Icons should be OK if their presence was dynamic because of many variables (sun, camo, speed ect).

But however playing with dots only makes the sim more difficult... not more realistic.

Both dots and icons have pros and cons in drawing up the sim to RL. Still both can be used in a realistic server IMO.

We can discuss about the immersion factor, these ugly coloured labels over the wonderful landscape, but this should be a combat simulator... most of the people play it to fight (fast low alt dogfighting or long high alt hunting, you choose your style), not to look at our own plane through the external camera making screenshots.

[mxmadman]

There will be plenty of servers with most of the options you prefer when the sim is optimized with the next patch. If the servers available don't suit your needs then start your own if possible. It appears that at the moment people with systems that can play the sim happen to like near full real settings. Like I said that will change and the pendulum will swing the other way when the sim is optimized. Just like the IL-2 1946, where most servers use relaxed settings.

There are already plenty of servers with the options I prefer. There are also people out there, and like I said it seems like more of them are getting into those servers as well.

I agree on the pendulum swing though. It actually seems necessary, since the pool of potential customers and their preferences is shown in the first post.

Its nice that this thread is still going and all, but so far no one seems interested in joining me to arrange an event or gathering. Well, except the guy who was banned for his comments up above, but he is passed the point of wanting to make it work and has lost interest.

[Sokol1]

1)Skies~Of~Valor
21/50 Users - Disabled Realism(meaning these things are allowed): Player Icons, External Views, Hud Icons, Map Icons, etc.


3c) Spit_vs_109_Mod
12/90 Users - Disabled Realism: None. This is the only populated "full realism" server, and it's tied for third most populated in Hyperlobby at this time



This numbers dont mean that people that regular play in "full realism" Spit_Vs_109 stop and go to arcade servers like Skiesofsomething.
These people just stop to play in Spit_Vs_109 and go to RoF, CloD... or stop with sims (due Clod "disaster" and go for another games (I know many that stop with IL-2 and now play daily... BF3!).

If CloD "arcade" servers dont make success, turn ATAG (the best server actually) in one these is solution?

Sokol1

[MusseMus]

This is my first post, so please be gentle with me :rolleyes:

I very much enjoy the ATAG server and although I find it very hard to spot the enemies without the object icons I do like the challenge.

However I do wish there was a way to identify friendly aircrafts so you know who I’m flying next to. Turning on object icons for friendly planes would, in my opinion (or fantasy :)), enable a higher degree of cooperation.

I believe we could gain a lot in cooperation and feeling you fight for a team with little or no loss in realism (after all, flying clueless of friendly activities is a bit unrealistic...).

With that said, I’m not sure whether it’s technically possible to implement object icons for only friendly planes.

Please do not misunderstand me –I’m not looking for an arcade server and I really love the high realism on ATAG, this is merely a suggestion. :rolleyes:

Cheers
Mattias

[Bokononist]

This is my first post, so please be gentle with me :rolleyes:

I very much enjoy the ATAG server and although I find it very hard to spot the enemies without the object icons I do like the challenge.

However I do wish there was a way to identify friendly aircrafts so you know who I’m flying next to. Turning on object icons for friendly planes would, in my opinion (or fantasy :)), enable a higher degree of cooperation.

I believe we could gain a lot in cooperation and feeling you fight for a team with little or no loss in realism (after all, flying clueless of friendly activities is a bit unrealistic...).

With that said, I’m not sure whether it’s technically possible to implement object icons for only friendly planes.

Please do not misunderstand me –I’m not looking for an arcade server and I really love the high realism on ATAG, this is merely a suggestion. :rolleyes:

Cheers
Mattias

There are a few things you can do to help id planes from a distance. First and foremost, get on the ATAG Teamspeak channel. Friendlies will identify themselves, and will help you learn tactics as well. Also look out for flak, use the black flak as a rough guide, and the white flak is much more accurate. Opposite applies when you're over enemy territory of course, unharassed planes will be enemy in this case. Flying with a wingman also greatly improves your chances.

[MusseMus]

There are a few things you can do to help id planes from a distance. First and foremost, get on the ATAG Teamspeak channel. Friendlies will identify themselves, and will help you learn tactics as well. Also look out for flak, use the black flak as a rough guide, and the white flak is much more accurate. Opposite applies when you're over enemy territory of course, unharassed planes will be enemy in this case. Flying with a wingman also greatly improves your chances.

Thank you for your helpfulness Bokononist. :grin:
I do watch for signs of flak when over land, but the benefit with some kind of object icon/label for friendlies is not only to identify friend from foe -I would love to know the name/callsign of the teammate next no me. Maybe being able to warn him if he's in danger etc.

I also use teamspeak and I’ve had great fun the times I found someone to fly with, but it seems very few are using it (at least when I’m online) so I still feel a bit lonely up there. :rolleyes:

[Bokononist]

Thank you for your helpfulness Bokononist. :grin:
I do watch for signs of flak when over land, but the benefit with some kind of object icon/label for friendlies is not only to identify friend from foe -I would love to know the name/callsign of the teammate next no me. Maybe being able to warn him if he's in danger etc.

I also use teamspeak and I’ve had great fun the times I found someone to fly with, but it seems very few are using it (at least when I’m online) so I still feel a bit lonely up there. :rolleyes:

I really don't understand why more people don't use the ATAG Ts3 server, and yes, it is annoying when there are Friendlies that you can't communicate with. I just try my best to team up with those that are on at the time.

[Ze-Jamz]

Thank you for your helpfulness Bokononist. :grin:
I do watch for signs of flak when over land, but the benefit with some kind of object icon/label for friendlies is not only to identify friend from foe -I would love to know the name/callsign of the teammate next no me. Maybe being able to warn him if he's in danger etc.

I also use teamspeak and I’ve had great fun the times I found someone to fly with, but it seems very few are using it (at least when I’m online) so I still feel a bit lonely up there. :rolleyes:

I think also people get a bit fed up with lots of chat over their game...everyone seems to stay in the same rooms even when they are just winging in pairs etc...ATAG gives us plenty of rooms to choose so you can use chat more effectivley without being drowned out by everyone

~S~

[swift]

Learning to fly without labels is tough but doable. Also with training one can id planes from pretty far off (particularly by colour) at least in terms of friend or foe.

Labels would destroy immersion greatly for me.

I also think it is quite realistic that it is not easy to identify a plane from far. Just treat any unidentified dot as a potential enemy until you identified it as friendly.

[MusseMus]

I will give it another go tonight and hopefully I find someone on Teamspeak willing to pair up with me:-)

Learning to fly without labels is tough but doable. Also with training one can id planes from pretty far off (particularly by colour) at least in terms of friend or foe.

Labels would destroy immersion greatly for me.

I also think it is quite realistic that it is not easy to identify a plane from far. Just treat any unidentified dot as a potential enemy until you identified it as friendly.

I agree it would be unrealistic if the object icon/label appeared from too far away. If a label with name/callsign was to be added (which I really doubt :rolleyes:), it should be at a distance where you are already able to identify friend from foe/type of plane (not sure exactly how far away that is).

Again, I'm not sure this is even possible to implement.

[adonys]

There is a way to remove the empty feeling of a MP server with a big map:

integrated (coop) missions on the same server:
- server blue message saying with 10 mins in advance on which airfield the mission will start (bombers, escorts)
(- blue players landing their current planes to get one of the mission's spawned planes)
- blue players filling in bombers/escorts plane ranks, the remaining being AI
- scramble towards objective
(- red server side announcing the eventual detection of incoming blue raid and its ETA)
- red server side announcing with 10 mins in advance the airfields from which coordinated fighter flights will take-off to meet the blue raid
(- red players landing their current planes to enlist in counter-raid flights)
- red players filling in fighter planes ranks, the remaining being AI
- scramble

coordinated HQ code:
- HQ code informing their sides about detected/observed enemy side flights, their position and estimated direction/target
- HQ forming AI flights on nearby airfields to take of and intercept, and announcing them to the players in advance, so that the player might join them
- HQ informing players about friendly bomber flights requests for escort
and so on..

player are not so good at organizing themselves, so someone (ie server code) must do it for them