Cliffs of Dover, a Year Later

[luthier]

Dear fans,

It’s hard to believe it’s been almost a year. For myself and for the team the past two years are a blur. Things have been hectic long since CoD pre-release days and there’s no sign of letting down. We work in a constant state of emergency.

We know that even a year after the initial release many of you are still unhappy with many aspects of the game. We are painfully aware of your unhappiness. For me personally, it’s a constant feeling in the back of my head. It drives me and motivates me, and I in turn use it to drive and motivate the team. It is at the same time very humbling. I personally want to apologize to the community once again for the state of the game at release, and I want to thank you for sticking around this long and continuing to give us a chance to redeem ourselves.

I realize that the pace at which we release patches and updates has slowed considerably. The latest patch that has been “almost ready” for months, and it’s even more almost ready today. The graphics rework is basically done. The average framerate has shot up almost twice. Only one relatively minor issue remains that prevents the gunsight, tracers, and bullet decals from being drawn. Of course, this minor technical issue has a huge impact on gameplay, and that is why we cannot release it to the public in its current state.
Secondly, reworking and becoming confident in the graphics engine itself allowed us to spread the net and start identifying additional issues that were causing hick-ups and slowdowns in the game. That is the hardest thing to locate since they are unpredictable and very difficult to replicate. Rewriting the graphics engine fixed many of those issues, and made the others very easy to identify by narrowing down the usual suspects. We have identified some very obscure issues with visual effects, the landscape engine, the texture manager, and with the weather system that were causing the occasional stuttering that by itself arguably had a bigger impact on gameplay than low average FPS.

On our end, we are much more confident in our product today than we were a year ago, and we are also much more excited about the future. The team continues to grow. We are just now beginning to look for a huge number of new applicants that will grow the team by almost 25%. We have a lot of very exciting new things on our plate that we cannot wait to reveal. The general mood of the team is one of excitement. We cannot wait to prove our detractors wrong, crush the competition, and give our fans what they are looking for with our next major release!

Thank you again for your support!


Ilya Shevchenko
Lead Development Producer

[KG26_Alpha]

Thank you for the update.

:grin:

[GS_Hunger]

Thanks for informing us Luthier! You guys made a great job and I'm sure that you'll make a good job in the future!

Thumbs up for you guys!

[Kankkis]

Thanks Luthier. :grin:

[NSU]

Thx Luthier nice to see you here :)

[GF_Mastiff]

"The general mood of the team is one of excitement. We cannot wait to prove our detractors wrong, crush the competition, and give our fans what they are looking for with our next major release!"

As Am I in reading this Luthier; Thanks a Million, keep on a truck'en!!

[ytareh]

Thanks.Ive gone back to Il2 1946 for now but I know I will be rejoining some time in future,maybe after the next patch.

[garengarch]

thanks team.

[Heinz Laube]

thx for ur update...its a good sign ;) :thumbsup:

[Verhängnis]

Is it me...Or did we actually get a friday update? :confused: :grin:

;But I do find it sad how our un-happiness, and not your realization of the poor state of the game... motivates you. Oh well, thanks anyway!

[Sammi79]

:grin:

Thanks and much respects, Mr Shevchenko, and all at 1C. I'm sure your hard work will be soon rewarded.

Regards, Sam.

[Wolf_Rider]

Happy Birthday Cliffs of Dover

Thanks for the heads up Luthier 8-)

[Dano]

The future's bright, I gotta wear shades :cool:

[LcSummers]

Great, finally some good words. Thank you for giving us some information we badly needed.

S!

[PeterPanPan]

Thank you Luthier - really good to hear this news which fills me with renewed hope ... again ;).

PPP

[addman]

Thanks for a very good update luthier. I'd rather have an update like this once a month then anything else. We have waited so long for the patch now so if it takes a few months more, I don't really care anymore. Good luck to you and your teams continued efforts!

[kestrel79]

Thank you. Just wanted to let you know that we are behind you and the team. Looking forward to this patch!

[6BL Bird-Dog]

Hi luthier,Good to hear from you.
The information you have given looks very promising.Thanks for posting.

[Vonte]

Thanks for the info Luthier.

I've stuck with the Sim this long warts 'n' all. If the reworked graphics engine is as good as you say it is, all will be forgiven. In the meantime, load up the shells, warm up the Tigers Maybach, I've got some Tanks to kill.

Kind regards

Vonte

[lothar29]

Luthier thanks for this update, I am glad to see that comes to give fresh news to its customers, it continues, continue with the good work and hopefully soon have the patch in our systems.

[Strike]

Hey Luthier!

Thanks for stopping by personally, blacksix has done an excellent job in the mean-time trying to put out all the fires, but it means a lot hearing from you again!

I am very happy to hear that you are excited about the future and if I am understanding you correctly here we are to expect an overall increase in FPS and stutters from previous versions. This will surely make a lot of people happy, including myself. Also it's good to hear that you are expanding your staff to bring new fresh additions to the game, helping you build your competence! Hopefully you can aquire more cockpit/aircraft modelers to increase the output and production capabilities of additional aircraft content. IL-2 is primarily a flight sim, and should stay true to it's blood heritage, even though the ground stuff is a strategically smart decision. You attract more audiences at the cost of frightening us flight-simmers. The majority of us would prefer the animated bailout sequence or better tailgunner controls over 100 controllable ground units, but hopefully those modeling and programming teams are split :)

I also like your enthusiasm and humbleness, stating that you have done some (really) bad stuff in the past, but are seeing good progress and continue to work into the future. We didn't get to 1946 in 1 year either.

I am eager to see what you are working on and I can't wait to try the next patch :)

[Insuber]

Dear fans,

It’s hard to believe it’s been almost a year. For myself and for the team the past two years are a blur. Things have been hectic long since CoD pre-release days and there’s no sign of letting down. We work in a constant state of emergency.

We know that even a year after the initial release many of you are still unhappy with many aspects of the game. We are painfully aware of your unhappiness. For me personally, it’s a constant feeling in the back of my head. It drives me and motivates me, and I in turn use it to drive and motivate the team. It is at the same time very humbling. I personally want to apologize to the community once again for the state of the game at release, and I want to thank you for sticking around this long and continuing to give us a chance to redeem ourselves.

I realize that the pace at which we release patches and updates has slowed considerably. The latest patch that has been “almost ready” for months, and it’s even more almost ready today. The graphics rework is basically done. The average framerate has shot up almost twice. Only one relatively minor issue remains that prevents the gunsight, tracers, and bullet decals from being drawn. Of course, this minor technical issue has a huge impact on gameplay, and that is why we cannot release it to the public in its current state.
Secondly, reworking and becoming confident in the graphics engine itself allowed us to spread the net and start identifying additional issues that were causing hick-ups and slowdowns in the game. That is the hardest thing to locate since they are unpredictable and very difficult to replicate. Rewriting the graphics engine fixed many of those issues, and made the others very easy to identify by narrowing down the usual suspects. We have identified some very obscure issues with visual effects, the landscape engine, the texture manager, and with the weather system that were causing the occasional stuttering that by itself arguably had a bigger impact on gameplay than low average FPS.

On our end, we are much more confident in our product today than we were a year ago, and we are also much more excited about the future. The team continues to grow. We are just now beginning to look for a huge number of new applicants that will grow the team by almost 25%. We have a lot of very exciting new things on our plate that we cannot wait to reveal. The general mood of the team is one of excitement. We cannot wait to prove our detractors wrong, crush the competition, and give our fans what they are looking for with our next major release!

Thank you again for your support!


Ilya Shevchenko
Lead Development Producer

Peace is done! Thank you Ilya, and good luck.

[Sutts]

Wow, real patch info. Now that's more like it.:grin:

Thanks Luthier, feel better now.

[satchenko]

Ok, nothing new than we know yesterday.

Thanks for the effort.

[ParaB]

This is the kind of information I've been hoping for a long time.

Thanks, much appreciated.

[lensman1945]

good to hear from you!

I've enjoyed the year flying Clod...and am now enjoying the anticipation of things to come:)

[6S.Tamat]

Finally an update that deserve that name!
We all still hope (beeing here is the evidence of that) and we are waiting for the patch!

Have a good work!

[drewpee]

Best bit of communication so far. Congratulations and salute to you and your team.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Thanks Ilya!

The vast majority of us old Il2 squad vets still come here weekly to look for signs of progress. We talk in private as there's is nothing that we could do or say in public to help in any way.

While we don't post, we do track and read - we are behind you and the Team 110%.

We know that you and the Team will come through to release the patch that will draw us all back together again and place the new Il-2 engine, up in it's rightful place.

I just want you and the Team to know that we have not gone away. We are waiting....

All the best,

Gunny

[Icebear]

Thank you for the information Luthier. Nice read, but unfortunately nothing new, nothing concrete, no timetable, no preview of what ever.

It's hard to stay tuned, Luthier. :(

[Robo.]

Thanks very much Ilya, much appreciated. I understand what you're saying and I wish you best of luck.

[Raggz]

Thanks for the update. This definitely gave me a confidence boost towards the dev team. Good to hear it's closing in.

[carguy_]

Luthier, thank you for the update. Your enthusiasm is promising and highly contagious.

The general mood of the team is one of excitement. We cannot wait to prove our detractors wrong, crush the competition, and give our fans what they are looking for with our next major release!

Oh yeah. I like that. The real community is not letting you go anywhere in the future.:grin:

I hope the team remains in good health and good mood. Both are imo equally important.

[d.burnette]

As a brand new user to CLoD, having just recently installed and getting ready to start flying - thanks for this update and the information shared - nice to see this happening between a developer and the community. Long time lover of the older IL2 Series, which was awsome - and looking forward to the great days ahead for me with CLoD.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Thank you for your persistance and dedication to your work!

Per ardua ad Astra!

[Walrus1]

That was a great update.

An affirmation of what he have supposed and hoped was the case: the team is hard at work, making progress and are aiming high.

[jamesdietz]

Luthier- Many thanks for the update. I really enjoy the sim ( despite flaws & lower than desirable FPS..) I wish you could hire the guys from Rise of Flight Public Relations - it might save you some grief by having a more user news & progress news release..
They too had a deeply flawed initial release , but have done an outstanding job in customer relations while steadily improving their product.
http://riseofflight.com/Blogs/default.aspx

[Bloblast]

Luthier thanks for the info!

[15.Span_Valalo]

Thanks for update Luthier... but We need any more this post... one year and too problem not solve... :( :(

The game is more unestable and this made that the comunity sim dont play CloD... this is bad to CLoD and team 1C...

More people left and play other games Rise of Fligth and other...

PD:Luthier, Thanks for making us dream. good luck.

[Jughead Jones]

Reinforcement like this just makes one hopefull again that their $ will one day yield an optimized stable product.

Keep squashing those bugs and thank you.

[rakinroll]

I only can say that "thank you Luthier". It is very good to hear somethings about what is going on there.

[Ze-Jamz]

Oh yeah. I like that. The real community (that doesnt troll and try to bait arguments) is not letting you go anywhere in the future...

Thanks for the update Luthier..appreciated

[nantuck]

Thanks for the update, it is at least something an Il-2 average fan, with high expectations on CoD but a bit disappointed at this stage, may understand easily; to see you guys are working hard on things that seems, after many messages read here (and many more before this thread), to worry a big part of this community, is a relief. I will get back to play the game, confident major bugs are going to be sorted sooner or later. Thank you.

[CWMV]

Thank you Luthier.

[trumps]

thanks for the update, it is great to hear your confidence in the work that is being done by yourself and the team. there is no doubt the game has gone through a painful birth, but even blind Freddy must be able to see the potential this game has, and should soon be realized with your efforts! i for one am looking forward to the addition of controlable ground forces in the future, bring it on, bring it all on mate ;) i have well and truely gotten my moneys worth already and it is only going to get better, great news indeed!

Cheers
Craig

[SlipBall]

Thanks luthier! hope to see you posting more in the coming weeks:grin:

[steeldelete]

Thanks for the update, uff good news!

This make work easier, having something to be waiting for. (did I say I didn't like to work?)

[Luftwaffepilot]

Those minor issues seem to become a never ending story.

Sounds a bit like it's still not days or weeks, but months.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Now matter how everbody feels about the game, for or against, I think that was a good update. Thanks for the explination.

[BH_woodstock]

Exellent news!!thank you sirs

~S~ to all

amd dual core 5400+
6gb ram
gtx460se
Win7 ultimate
trackir
microsoft sidewinder FF2

[lanling]

太棒啦。支持。

VERY GOOD!!!

Hard not be paid. Support you forever.


辛苦不会白白的付出。永远支持你。

[Ploughman]

Thanks very much for the communique, we all want the series to succeed, and to succeed like no other. Good to know you're still there, beavering away, and that you are mindful of the of the community.

[DroopSnoot]

Great update thankyou Luthier. I hope that the remainder of the bugs are easily quashed so you can get your patch out to the public and your sim finally up and running.

Per ardua!

Regards
Ds

[ATAG_Snapper]

"The latest patch that has been “almost ready” for months, and it’s even more almost ready today."

Good stuff! I'm even more almost ready to be thrilled to install it! :)

[Al Capwn]

Thank you Luthier! I'm very grateful for everything you and your team have been doing and I can't wait to see what becomes of CloD in the near future! :grin:

[von Brühl]

Now that's an update, ... faith somewhat restored...

[smink1701]

Thanks Luthier. Sounds like you are as passionate about this sim as we are. That's a good thing. Now get this thing done and push it out the door!!!

:)

[ATAG_Doc]

And with this patch the ATAG blue team will crush the red team. Get your tissues ready.

[jimmythedeath]

I can not believe after all this time, that the Team that is building and fixing this game does not use the community to its fullest extent, there are plenty of ways to deliver beta patching system so we COULD HELP you fix the Bugs and get the game in a much better playable version FASTER. all you have to do is let us in on how we can HELP and get in on the daily builds. Personalty i don't care about decals and a few other things what stops me and every one else is the shuttering I mean really FIX THAT for us and patch it NOW work on the decals and visual shit after the SMOOTHNESS of PLAY (No MORE SHUTTERING) has been addressed. As for the comment of Occasional he must be talking about single player, I like shooting real players thank you, only reason i play this game.

Jimmy OUT!!! PATCH PATCH PATCH

[NaBkin]

Thank you, Sir! Your message is much appreciated!! I hope the patch will be released soon :)

[Ze-Jamz]

I can not believe after all this time, that the Team that is building and fixing this game does not use the community to its fullest extent, there are plenty of ways to deliver beta patching system so we COULD HELP you fix the Bugs and get the game in a much better playable version FASTER. all you have to do is let us in on how we can HELP and get in on the daily builds. Personalty i don't care about decals and a few other things what stops me and every one else is the shuttering I mean really FIX THAT for us and patch it NOW work on the decals and visual shit after the SMOOTHNESS of PLAY (No MORE SHUTTERING) has been addressed. As for the comment of Occasional he must be talking about single player, I like shooting real players thank you, only reason i play this game.

Jimmy OUT!!! PATCH PATCH PATCH

gunsight, tracers, and bullet decals from being drawn

You would care about that m8, as it quite a big deal online or offline wouldn't you agree?

[Continu0]

despite you didn´t say anything, you said something and that´s what we all wanted!

Thanks, I appreciate!

[mazex]

Exactly the post I was hoping for this Friday too settle the mood here. Thanks a lot Ilya, and good luck!

/mazex

[ElAurens]

Thanks Ilya.

Like Gunny's post several pages back, what's left of my squad is waiting for the great days to come.

Keep plugging away at it, and all the best to the new members of your team.


EL.

[Qpassa]

Thks Luthier, waiting for the release

[AKA_Scorp]

Luthier, thanks for the update much appreciated.

[bw_wolverine]

Can you just imagine the noise in the office when they get those last few quirks worked out?

Luthier: Did you figure it out?
Programmer: I think so. Compiling it now.
*Everyone in office crosses fingers and toes
Luthier: Okay, load up the bomber intercept quick mission.
Programmer: Okay, here goes. Gunsight looks good!
*Cheers from all around
Programmer: Firing now. Tracers look great!
*Cheers and papers being thrown in the air.
Programmer: Okay, intercepting...firing on target and...BULLET HITS!
*Lease on new office required after the roof is blown off this one.

[kyletiernan]

Thanks Luthier, looking forward to the next patch and also the next game release.

[mcler002]

Things are looking up! Thanks for the news!

Ross

[Sven]

Thanks Luthier, I've always been confident, and will be for a long time, that your team has the capabilities to make this game the best combat flight sim ever!
Can't wait for the patch to be ready :!:

[kendo65]

Many thanks for the update. I'm very encouraged to hear that ave fps has almost doubled.

Here's wishing you good luck for sorting out the remaining issues.

[d.burnette]

So gang being relatively new, how does this normally work?
When this big patch is ready, is it considered final and pushed out to all CLoD users via Steam automatically - or will there be a " beta patch" process whereby only those that choose to do so run the patch, until it is considered a final product?

[FF*Ph0b0s*95]

Good Luck to the team MG. Thanks for the COD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbN839SzDuM

[archer11]

Glad to read this info. Thanks, Luthier!

[MoGas]

Thanks Luthier for the info!

cheers

[Robert]

Thanks cast and crew of the 1C CoD development team. Thanks for the words Luthier. See you again real soon? Maybe coffee next time? I'll buy. ;)

[JG52Krupi]

Thanks for the info luthier!

[esmiol]

thx for infos luthier...and waiting for release.

please make of COD the sim it deserve to be.

[Rince]

So gang being relatively new, how does this normally work?
When this big patch is ready, is it considered final and pushed out to all CLoD users via Steam automatically - or will there be a " beta patch" process whereby only those that choose to do so run the patch, until it is considered a final product?

Jap, like this! They will release first the beta, that can be downloaded from a mirror with manual installation and after that the real patch will be updated by stream!

THX 1c-Team! For the work!
And thank you for giving me the chance to have a look back into Il-2 1946! (honestly)

Salute from the heart of nowhere!

[Jatta Raso]

sounds great. they want to crush the competition? good to see such confidence in them..

[JG52Uther]

Very positive update, thanks Luthier.

[mugen]

Thank you, team luthier!

[No145_Hatter]

Thanks for the word!

[Catseye]

And with this patch the ATAG blue team will crush the red team. Get your tissues ready.

Hey Doc,
You mean with a correctly modeled Spitfire Blue will have an unmeasurable advantage?

This I hafta see! :-P

Looking forward to it indeed!

Cheers Mate.

[Jatta Raso]

And with this patch the ATAG blue team will crush the red team. Get your tissues ready.

as red flyer all i can say is: i can't wait ;)

[furbs]

Positive words, i appreciate it. Hopes raised a bit.
Though im looking at Luthier sidways with squinting eyes hoping its not a bluff, wanting to believe but waiting to see.

CLOD needs more than a graphics patch to pull it round though, i hope the patch when it comes is the start of more fixes to come that are in my view more important.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Good to see where IL-2 is going. Thank You for the update!

[Pitti]

Great friday update!

Thank you Luthier. :)

[Chivas]

The best news to me is the twenty-five percent increase in the development crew. That is a very good sign that the development is on solid ground and we can expect the sim to be finished. Also very good to hear that the bugs aren't serious enough to be development threatening. An update like this every few weeks and a decent patch every few months would make me a very happy camper. The graphics/performance patch has been a huge setback, but once thats cleared the path forward should be much smoother.

[CaptainDoggles]

Dear fans,

...

Excellent update. Thank you very much.

[d.burnette]

Jap, like this! They will release first the beta, that can be downloaded from a mirror with manual installation and after that the real patch will be updated by stream!


Salute from the heart of nowhere!

Ok got it, thanks for the info!

[salmo]

I've been quitely waiting for news from the dev's knowing that it's been 1 year since game release. Thankyou Luthier for your post.

I've taken time in the last week to (1) read the original game reviews from when CLOD was released, (2) look at some of the original videos & clips of the game & (3) read many of the posts from the dev's since game release. Most reviews indicated that CLOD was in a poor state at release, but suggested there was some hope for improving the game once bugs were fixed & once the community were involved in expanding the game content (mods). While most dev posts promised a range of forthcoming improvements/developments (SDK's, bug fixes, AI improvements, faster fps etc). I really want to believe that bigger things are possible with the CLOD engine. I really really do ... but ...

Let's take a step back & review exactly where we are 1 year down the track? A patch 5 months ago & only vague promises since. Well to be frank, more promises just doesn't cut it any more! We still have a bugged game engine, a game that doesn't run on the specified minimum PC specs, an extremely limited number of online servers, limited mission functionality because of game limitations (no tree collissions, no dynamic weather, porked AI, no DCG etc).

It's fairly obvious from the dev's comments that 1C has little intention of fixing CLOD as it stands now. CLOD will likely get an upgrade (?fixes) when the BOM sequel is released (no forecast release date yet?). You ask for patience, Luthier, but regretably, I am out of patience. 1C has lost my good will & my enthusiasm for this game.

[Allons!]

Thx Luthier, great posting. I wished, TreeUK could say his thx too :grin:

[Comrade Jordan]

It's fairly obvious from the dev's comments that 1C has little intention of fixing CLOD as it stands now. CLOD will likely get an upgrade (?fixes) when the BOM sequel is released (no forecast release date yet?). Regretably, I am out of patience. 1C has lost my good will & my enthusiasm for this game.

That just wouldn't make sence. The engine will be the same in the sequel so implementing it in CloD is just whats right, and it has to be. surely, some things will probably only make it into the sequel, but the performance patches have to be applied to CloD, in order to get things right for the sequel and to raise the community for buying BoM.

[salmo]

That just wouldn't make sence. The engine will be the same in the sequel so implementing it in CloD is just whats right, and it has to be. surely, some things will probably only make it into the sequel, but the performance patches have to be applied to CloD, in order to get things right for the sequel and to raise the community for buying BoM.
Yes, but what I'm saying is that we will likely not see any further changes to CLOD perse, until BOM is released.

[LoBiSoMeM]

No ETA of patch.

Some info. I liked the one about more FPS.

But we all know that. The real update will have patch ETA ou patch relase itself.

Until then, not very usefull or promising, sorry to say.

Still waiting. When the pacth is out, i believe that NOW we will have some MAJOR performance gain. I have faith in this team.

[Stirwenn]

First, thanx for the update.
Second, confidence is not restored at all as we got lots of "eye-candy" vidéos one year ago incitating to buy a broken game.
Third, sooner the patch is out and efficient, sooner i will trust you again.

[Chivas]

I've been quitely waiting for news from the dev's knowing that it's been 1 year since game release. Thankyou Luthier for your post.

I've taken time in the last week to (1) read the original game reviews from when CLOD was released, (2) look at some of the original videos & clips of the game & (3) read many of the posts from the dev's since game release. Most reviews indicated that CLOD was in a poor state at release, but suggested there was some hope for improving the game once bugs were fixed & once the community were involved in expanding the game content (mods). While most dev posts promised a range of forthcoming improvements/developments (SDK's, bug fixes, AI improvements, faster fps etc). I really want to believe that bigger things are possible with the CLOD engine. I really really do ... but ...

Let's take a step back & review exactly where we are 1 year down the track? A patch 5 months ago & only vague promises since. Well to be frank, more promises just doesn't cut it any more! We still have a bugged game engine, a game that doesn't run on the specified minimum PC specs, an extremely limited number of online servers, limited mission functionality because of game limitations (no tree collissions, no dynamic weather, porked AI, no DCG etc).

It's fairly obvious from the dev's comments that 1C has little intention of fixing CLOD as it stands now. CLOD will likely get an upgrade (?fixes) when the BOM sequel is released (no forecast release date yet?). Regretably, I am out of patience. 1C has lost my good will & my enthusiasm for this game.

Neither COD nor BOM could be fixed or finished until the graphic/performance patch is successfully completed. Without this patch COD, BOM, and the develpment were finished. The sequel hasn't been even officially annouced yet so I think there will be time for a couple more patches to COD. If the development survives COD will never be finished, all feature fixes, like the AI, Commands, FM, DM, Weather improvements will apply to COD, BOM, MED, PAC etc etc. The only improvement to COD that probably won't be done by the developer is new campaigns which is not a problem as the community will be able to handle that very well along with a number of other additions.

[GraveyardJimmy]

Yes, but what I'm saying is that we will likely not see any further changes to CLOD perse, until BOM is released.

That is contrary to all information we have received. In this update he even said it is almost ready. I dont think BoM is almost ready.

It makes no sense financially either. Who would buy a sequel to a game that hasnt been supported? Not many here- so they will patch CoD then release BoM when it is ready and people are happier with CoD.

[mazex]

The best news to me is the twenty-five percent increase in the development crew. That is a very good sign that the development is on solid ground and we can expect the sim to be finished.
...


+1

That means that someone with money believes in the team that is a lot more worth than a bunch of $49 "shareholders" expressing their concern - on the short term at least ;)

[ATAG_Doc]

Hey Doc,
You mean with a correctly modeled Spitfire Blue will have an unmeasurable advantage?

This I hafta see! :-P

Looking forward to it indeed!

Cheers Mate.

Hi Cats! S!

I mean when blue is finally able to fly bomber formations and actually blitz!!!!! muhahaha :evil:

Thanks Luthier for the great update!

[5./JG27.Farber]

What a really nice update, lets show the devs that we can be nice too and not turn it into a toilet thread!

:-P

[RickRuski]

This is the sort of information that we should get to keep things with the support base up to date. As I have said before, sometimes news that is not what we all want to hear better than no news at all. I am quite happy to see the expansion packs bring in more planes and theatres of operation so long as patches to fix the original release are done before any expansion. This is definitely going to go the way of the old Il2 series with improvments and extras being brought into BoM,Med,Pac etc. just as in Il2,AEP,Pac, and 1946 series. The only thing that would hold me back from buying the expansions would be uncertainty with performance if CoD isn't fixed before.

[Icebear]

Good Luck to the team MG. Thanks for the COD!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbN839SzDuM

Awesome FF*Ph0b0s*95 ! Thank you very much....

[The Black Death]

A Question, bigger than the graphics problem for me and many other I know...

Have you fixed the Launcher crashes???

Thanks for the update!

[Towarisch]

Thank you very much luthier, for your work and for you are beeing here. Back.:)

......I´ll be Back:grin::grin: (Schwarzenegger)


Hey, you and your team are make a great job. And it´s beautyful you are back in this pheres.

BUT NOW it is WEEKEND:) although for you and famaly. RELAX.

And with freshness on work, next week:grin:;)


Thank´s for the update.


From Old Germany

Towarisch


PS: Sorry for the english grammatik and words. I hope you understand it:)

[Chivas]

A Question, bigger than the graphics problem for me and many other I know...

Have you fixed the Launcher crashes???

Thanks for the update!

The launcer exe crashes, CTD's are part of the graphic/performance patch fix.

[No1 Cheese]

Awesome FF*Ph0b0s*95 ! Thank you very much....

That is fantastic,and when i see vids like that it does give us hope but as rickrusti says"The only thing that would hold me back from buying the expansions would be uncertainty with performance if CoD isn't fixed before"

Cheese.

[Frequent_Flyer]

We need a reference point,a 25% increase when the whole staff has turned over in the past 12 months could still be a net decrease.

I 've always beleived, actions speak louder than words, no matter how sincere the words appear.

If the patch is a " Beta ", release it and the community will provide a much larger universe for debugging. Exponentially accelerating the release of the final patch.

" Almost there " is like " tomorrow ", it never comes.

[machoo]

It's still awhile away , couple of months from patching atleast. Probably 6months.

[=XIII=Shea]

Any idea when the patch comes out????????

[GraveyardJimmy]

If the patch is a " Beta ", release it and the community will provide a much larger universe for debugging. Exponentially accelerating the release of the final patch.


Release a patch with no gunsights, tracer or bullet effects? When these are fixed (the last issue apparently), sure, but at the moment its probably worth waiting the last little bit for release.

I can imagine quite an uproar if they release it without gunsights.

[Frequent_Flyer]

It's still awhile away , couple of months from patching atleast. Probably 6months.

If the Developers are not hazarding to guess, know individual could know a release date with any degree of accuracy.

Release it in its current incarnation. It could'nt be a degradation from the current ' game play", could it?

[Frequent_Flyer]

Release a patch with no gunsights, tracer or bullet effects? When these are fixed (the last issue apparently), sure, but at the moment its probably worth waiting the last little bit for release.

I can imagine quite an uproar if they release it without gunsights.

All kidding aside, gun sights are not necessary while " crashing to desk top"

[HundertneunGustav]

Any idea when the patch comes out????????

No... no date.
Never.

[machoo]

Bullet effects are one of the big reasons to cause stuttering as they impact the aircraft. Seems to be related to memory.

[speculum jockey]

Does the new graphic engine support DirectX 11?

[Gabelschwanz Teufel]

Thanks!

[SlipBall]

Luthier, do you think people who have minimum spec systems, will possibly be able to fly with the new patch release? :grin:

[Widow17]

I think they should take their time. Its probably better to finally have something that really makes the game better instead of patches that fix a little but leave lots of holes open. COd for me is still a desaster but on the other hand its the way it is. I hope itll become what it was promised to be one day until then ive got to wait i guess.

[mungee]

Thanks Luthier - I'm 100% behind you guys!

[roadczar]

Good update!

I'm hoping the Crossfire and the Eyefinity related issues are resolved by the new engine.

[jimbop]

We cannot wait to prove our detractors wrong, crush the competition, and give our fans what they are looking for with our next major release!

We can't wait either! Thanks for the good update, much appreciated.

[furbs]

We cannot wait to prove our detractors wrong, crush the competition, and give our fans what they are looking for with our next major release!



Im hoping you prove your detractors wrong, crush the competition and give us what we want with more patches that fix ALL the problems with CLOD first, then give us the next major release.

[335th_GRAthos]

Thanks for the nice feedback!

Now we know why the patch is stopped at its tracks.

I keep my fingers crossed that the solution will be found soon.

~S~

[hc_wolf]

Thanks for informing us Luthier!
You guys made a great Sim and are doing a great. Like others I continue to script missions that will take advantage of the new graphics FPS and can't wait to share with the comunity online.

100% behind you guys!!!!

[TonyD]

Thanks for the update, luthier! Looking forward to the update :grin:

[Rjel]

Thx for the update, it is good to hear it directly from the source. Hoping for a better second year of CoD.

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

Thanks!

[Freycinet]

Thanks for the positive vibes!

[choctaw111]

Luthier, thank you very much for the info.
It is good to hear what is going on with the sim and great to hear that the morale of you and your team is high.
The line where you said about crushing the competition and proving the naysayers wrong made me smile.

[the_soupdragon]

Thanks Ilya!

The vast majority of us old Il2 squad vets still come here weekly to look for signs of progress. We talk in private as there's is nothing that we could do or say in public to help in any way.

While we don't post, we do track and read - we are behind you and the Team 110%.

We know that you and the Team will come through to release the patch that will draw us all back together again and place the new Il-2 engine, up in it's rightful place.

I just want you and the Team to know that we have not gone away. We are waiting....

All the best,

Gunny

nice post. I agree 100%

SD

[banned]

nice post. I agree 100%

SD
Yep, that's what I do.

[GOA_Potenz]

finally, some real info

[JG26_EZ]

Thanks.

A little info is better than no info.

[klem]

Thanks Luthier

Useful update. Keeps us in touch.

[jayrc]

Thanks Ilya, can't wait for the patch so you guys can take a real break without these worries on your mind, ~S~

[Thee_oddball]

Thanks Ilya!

The vast majority of us old Il2 squad vets still come here weekly to look for signs of progress. We talk in private as there's is nothing that we could do or say in public to help in any way.

While we don't post, we do track and read - we are behind you and the Team 110%.

We know that you and the Team will come through to release the patch that will draw us all back together again and place the new Il-2 engine, up in it's rightful place.

I just want you and the Team to know that we have not gone away. We are waiting....

All the best,

Gunny

ditto, watching from the nose bleed seats

[Theshark888]

The real community (that doesnt troll and try to bait arguments)

Aren't you baiting right here:rolleyes:

[wannabetheace]

thanks Great update! looking for good news soon. patch:-)

[CrusaderOne]

To Luthier and team.

Your hard work and perseverance for getting CLOD to where you have invisioned it to be is so greatly appreciated by me.

Thank you
Mike

[MegOhm]

We need a reference point,a 25% increase when the whole staff has turned over in the past 12 months could still be a net decrease.

I 've always beleived, actions speak louder than words, no matter how sincere the words appear.

If the patch is a " Beta ", release it and the community will provide a much larger universe for debugging. Exponentially accelerating the release of the final patch.

" Almost there " is like " tomorrow ", it never comes.

True....if there are 4 25%= 1, 8 then that would be 2...etc maybe they have 20 so hey thats big...5 more

if it is close... why not give us a readme of what is certain to be included in the patch....almost there...really almost there....really really almost certainly there..so we are closer to almost there...which is neither here nor there... Rhetorical syllogism

I do appreciate the update..so thanks for dropping by with some words of encouragement. Maybe something is getting lost in the translation there...

[MadBlaster]

//status check

for (int n=March 23, 2012; n<=March 23, 2022; n=n+1 year) {
cout << "Hi Luthier. Thanks for the update. You can do this! We are all behind you 1000% !!! :cool::) \n";
}
If (n>March 23, 2022 and CLOD != “fixed”) then
{
for (int n=1; n<infinity; n=n+1) {
cout << "I poo on your head Luthier :-P \n";
}
}
/*10 years should do it. By then, I will be a jedi master expert hacker programmer. ;) This game will get fixed if I have to fix it myself and I will kill STEAM with phuckeen long knives ;) Sadly, some of you will be dead by then from old age or some other crappy thing. But maybe not! So, keep your fingers crossed IL2 mootheruckers!:!::grin: */

[Viking]

Thank you!
Viking

[Aty2]

I write on behalf of the squadron = gRiJ = and we are enormously grateful for the effort they are making with the patches. The simulator is the best we had in the world of simulation.

Every day we are more users possess the simulator and we believe much in the great potential of COD, and encourage them to continue with the great work

thanks


A greeting from Spain

= gRiJ = Aty2

[pupaxx]

Thanks for your encouraging words and your dedition in supporting the game, can you tell us when it would be done with before or after summer time approximation? I'll stay tuned for any news. Keep on guys
Thanks

[Osprey]

I can not believe after all this time, that the Team that is building and fixing this game does not use the community to its fullest extent, there are plenty of ways to deliver beta patching system so we COULD HELP you fix the Bugs and get the game in a much better playable version FASTER. all you have to do is let us in on how we can HELP and get in on the daily builds. Personalty i don't care about decals and a few other things what stops me and every one else is the shuttering I mean really FIX THAT for us and patch it NOW work on the decals and visual shit after the SMOOTHNESS of PLAY (No MORE SHUTTERING) has been addressed. As for the comment of Occasional he must be talking about single player, I like shooting real players thank you, only reason i play this game.

Jimmy OUT!!! PATCH PATCH PATCH


End users don't do testing, they don't know how to. They would pick up the game and play it, then whine about how this and that doesn't work. Believe it or not, software testing is a professional area, whether or not 1C implement that into their process though is another matter.

[150GCT_Veltro]

Im hoping you prove your detractors wrong, crush the competition and give us what we want with more patches that fix ALL the problems with CLOD first, then give us the next major release.

+ 1

[Martinho]

Dear fans,
We cannot wait to prove our detractors wrong, crush the competition,
Ilya Shevchenko
Lead Development Producer

In communist Russia, competition crushes you! :cool:

[Zappatime]

End users don't do testing, they don't know how to. They would pick up the game and play it, then whine about how this and that doesn't work. Believe it or not, software testing is a professional area, whether or not 1C implement that into their process though is another matter.

Project C.A.R.S. seems to be doing a good job with the community (who've already personnally invested in the sim at the pre-alpha level to the tune of +500,000 Euros) doing the testing. Yes they have professionals on board for physics, handling feedback and such, as well as all the project team intermingling with the 'investors' on the feedback forums, but testing across many platforms by many users is a method thats working well so far. Whining is a strict no-no on PCars, they want positive feedback and positive viral coverage on Facebook, YouTube and the like. Whilst the COD team is probably a lot smaller there's some lessons that can be learnt from PCars and its community involvement and investment in a totally positive way.

[HessleReich]

Never was so much owed by so many to so few. W. Churchill 1940.

Hope you get all those bugs in your sights and Squeeze.

[Volksieg]

Really nice update there!

I'm more than willing to wait for however long it takes to iron out these creases..... obviously I would like the patch sooner than later, mind.

Currently I can get a good framerate, though still with some annoying drops, with my shadows disabled..... I could get an even better framerate if I dropped the trees.... but I don't want to. The idea of the beta patch being released with much better performance but meaning I would have to go without tracers, bullet effects, roundels..etc....? Nope. I don't want to "go without" anything and would much rather wait until the team are happy with the results and have the full works.

Can't wait for more news! Things are looking bigger, brighter and better for the near future. :)

[Nephris]

The sensitive soul of a real british houseman speaking.;)

Nice news, keep it coming to prevent some skins not to get burn in the summer times...:grin:

[Letum]

You candidness is much appreciated.

[smink1701]

+ 1

1+++

[namroob]

Many thanks Luthier - will be buying CloD as soon as I can get a better PC. A Battle of Britain simulator's been my dream since my Gran gave me "Eagle Day" for Christmas in 1968...

[Blackdog_kt]

The best news to me is the twenty-five percent increase in the development crew. That is a very good sign that the development is on solid ground and we can expect the sim to be finished. Also very good to hear that the bugs aren't serious enough to be development threatening. An update like this every few weeks and a decent patch every few months would make me a very happy camper. The graphics/performance patch has been a huge setback, but once thats cleared the path forward should be much smoother.

Pretty much agree with this. If they are hiring new people, it probably means they are financially secure. That alone means that the necessary fixes will come and the project has avoided the danger of being cancelled.

Of course unforeseen factors always exist, but the most possible scenario under the current information is that we are getting there.

With most of the long-term issues well documented by now and the increase in dev team size, i suspect it will take less time to fix the individual aircraft or system specific bugs (eg, bombsights, gyrocompasses, CEM issues) after the graphics update is complete.
After all, redoing the gfx engine from scratch is like rewriting half the game, while correcting a bugged cockpit control is more a case of altering a few expressions in the code than recoding the whole thing from scratch.

At least that's my personal interpretation of it. :grin:


I would also like to thank the community for keeping it civil. Most people are happy with the update, some not so much and others outright doubt it, but they are all sticking to what an update thread is: the developer presents some information and we respond back to the developer with our feedback (positive or negative) and our questions.

I see no baiting, no circular arguments and "let me convince you of why you are wrong" marathons in this thread. I only see flight simmers allowing each other to express their opinions (even if they disagree among themselves) and address the developer with their concerns. This is the way it should be and i'm very happy we as a community can finally do it. Last but not least, it makes my job as a moderator easier :-P

So in conclusion, all i have to say to development team and community alike is: keep doing what you/we are currently doing ;)

[addman]

Pretty much agree with this. If they are hiring new people, it probably means they are financially secure. That alone means that the necessary fixes will come and the project has avoided the danger of being cancelled.

Of course unforeseen factors always exist, but the most possible scenario under the current information is that we are getting there.

With most of the long-term issues well documented by now and the increase in dev team size, i suspect it will take less time to fix the individual aircraft or system specific bugs (eg, bombsights, gyrocompasses, CEM issues) after the graphics update is complete.
After all, redoing the gfx engine from scratch is like rewriting half the game, while correcting a bugged cockpit control is more a case of altering a few expressions in the code than recoding the whole thing from scratch.

At least that's my personal interpretation of it. :grin:


I would also like to thank the community for keeping it civil. Most people are happy with the update, some not so much and others outright doubt it, but they are all sticking to what an update thread is: the developer presents some information and we respond back to the developer with our feedback (positive or negative) and our questions.

I see no baiting, no circular arguments and "let me convince you of why you are wrong" marathons in this thread. I only see flight simmers allowing each other to express their opinions (even if they disagree among themselves) and address the developer with their concerns. This is the way it should be and i'm very happy we as a community can finally do it. Last but not least, it makes my job as a moderator easier :-P

So in conclusion, all i have to say to development team and community alike is: keep doing what you/we are currently doing ;)

I agree, it's almost better than the update itself.

[Volksieg]

The sensitive soul of a real british houseman speaking.;)

Nice news, keep it coming to prevent some skins not to get burn in the summer times...:grin:

Tell me about it! I had to go outside earlier..... not good... not good at all :D

Pretty much agree with this. If they are hiring new people, it probably means they are financially secure. That alone means that the necessary fixes will come and the project has avoided the danger of being cancelled.


Couldn't agree more! The other day I tried looking at the forum and there was nothing... I then typed in the 1cpublishing address... again nothing. My heart nearly fell out of my trouser leg and my first thought was "Oh no! The entire company has just gone bust!" :D To find the forum back and then be greeted with a post from Luthier stating that they are taking on more staff is the most encouraging news of all. I have had my doubts on occasion, during this whole debacle, but I really think we are in for some great times ahead. :)

Well....either that or 1C have just made the worst business decision in history. LOL

Good times are coming and no mistake!

[d.burnette]

I see no baiting, no circular arguments and "let me convince you of why you are wrong" marathons in this thread. I only see flight simmers allowing each other to express their opinions (even if they disagree among themselves) and address the developer with their concerns. This is the way it should be and i'm very happy we as a community can finally do it. Last but not least, it makes my job as a moderator easier :-P

So in conclusion, all i have to say to development team and community alike is: keep doing what you/we are currently doing ;)

Indeed - I am new to this sim and this community, and have been reading up on many of these forums since purchasing the sim several days ago and was somewhat surprised by some of the stuff I was seeing.

However after this update, the overal theme seems to have shifted signicantly and is a nice change of pace and breath of fresh air. Most of you unlike me, have been very patient and waiting some time for what is coming - but after reading up quite a bit, I can see both the importance of the upcoming update and the communication between the developer and the community.


Very nice thread here I am enjoying keeping up with the comments here.

[Le0ne]

I hope you stick to this game and develop it further. It got great potential.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?uusjeo

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

The graphics rework is basically done. The average framerate has shot up almost twice.

Ilya Shevchenko
Lead Development Producer


Thanks Luthier,this is what I personally wanted to read,superb:)

[Ibis]

[QUOTE=HessleReich;402521]Never was so much owed by so many to so few. W. Churchill 1940.

Never was so much owed by so few to so many. Ibis 2012.

[jamesdietz]

Twice the framerate???
Oh Mama- let me have it!

[Spinnetti]

Thanks.Ive gone back to Il2 1946 for now but I know I will be rejoining some time in future,maybe after the next patch.

Me too... looking forward to the "real" release!

[Atreides]

Dear Luthier,

It's encouraging to see that the team is that positive. Despite it's serious flaws like recurrent CTD's in multiplayer (which can be maddening and IMHO is the worst flaw), Cliffs of Dover has been my favorite game for the last few months. If you indeed manage to solve these flaws, this will become a more than worthy succesor to IL-2 Sturmovik:1946!

Good luck with completing the coming patch!

Atreides.

[Burning Bridges]

I registered to write something in this thread. Perhaps there are many more like me who were just browsing the forums, and who are contemplating to get the game.

Luthiers post is very sincere. The problems he admits to, including the time management are annoying, but they are not critical if the team holds out til' the end.

I played many sims in the past, but what mostly kept me from this one is the feeling that it may never get the sustained development it requires. But what he said about the update has come close to changing my mind about the game.

If the patch really provides a complete rewriting of the graphics engine (and the promised performance gains), I think I will sooner or later get the game, and I am very hopeful about the sequels too (especially if UBISoft leaves the boat).

[GraveyardJimmy]

(especially if UBISoft leaves the boat).


Just wondering aloud- I remember reading 1c said that something like 90% of sales now come from the digital market, like steam etc and that they nearly dont need conventional retail stores any more.

If that is the case it might be wise to break any ties they can with ubisoft after the development mess up they imposed (relating to epilepsy filter), but I dont know if it is possible with contracts etc. In any case they shouldnt stick with them for the sequel perhaps.

[KeroseneA1]

Captain of the ship.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Dear Luthier,

It's encouraging to see that the team is that positive. Despite it's serious flaws like recurrent CTD's in multiplayer (which can be maddening and IMHO is the worst flaw)...

+1

[d.burnette]

Twice the framerate???
Oh Mama- let me have it!

Indeed, that would be an incredible accomplishment in any game/sim!
I am very new to CLoD and can not even say yet what kind of performance I get with my system, however whatever it will be, it is very good to know there is an update in the works that will increase it dramatically over what I would currently have.

I hope I can get things sorted enough to get some quality flying time in with what appears to be a great sim , before the patch comes out at least...

I was a big fan of IL2 FB, then PF then 1946 - and am looking forward to getting back into WWII simming again with CLoD.
Nice to see the developmental work along with the communication from them, for what is coming! Perhaps someday this sim, will get to the point they add the Pacific Theatre again which would thrill me extensively!

[U505]

Perhaps someday this sim, will get to the point they add the Pacific Theatre again which would thrill me extensively!

not for me in any case i prefer the européan theatre of war.:-P:-P

[adonys]

Twice the framerate???
Oh Mama- let me have it!Indeed, that would be an incredible accomplishment in any game/sim!

Unfortunately, it is not an unbelievable achievement, but rather fixing an embarrassing mistake (not being able, after six years of development, to produce a good, stable and up-to-date engine).

Those extra-frame rates are not coming from an incredible clever new way to code a render engine just discovered by MG. Not in that percent (100% performance increase). It's just (proper) render engine coding & (proper) optimization.

As it should have been actually right from the launch date!

[robtek]

Unfortunately, it is not an unbelievable achievement, but rather fixing an embarrassing mistake (not being able, after six years of development, to produce a good, stable and up-to-date engine).

Those extra-frame rates are not coming from an incredible clever new way to code a render engine just discovered by MG. Not in that percent (100% performance increase). It's just (proper) render engine coding & (proper) optimization.

As it should have been actually right from the launch date!

The great software programmer talking, so it seems.

Maybe your extensive knowledge how to solve software problems would really be appreciated by Maddox Games.

[furbs]

Robtek, if you think its not true argue with the post, dont attack the poster.

[Wolf_Rider]

(not being able, after six years of development, to produce a good, stable and up-to-date engine).



dunno... one of the Myst adventures took five years (I don't recall clearly if it was II or V) and that was just point and click (mainly static screens)

[David Hayward]

As it should have been actually right from the launch date!

Complicated applications are never optimized at initial release. How long have you been programming?

[JG52Krupi]

Complicated applications are never optimized at initial release. How long have you been programming?

Hmmm, dear oh dear... how many times can you use that utterly pathetic reason...

Yes sometimes software does come out before it should but not all, either way just because some else does should not mean that everyone else can.

Adonys is correct I am sure Oleg, Luthier and Co would definitely wanted to release a finished product, you can't defend a half broken game...

[Aty2]

thanks for the product came out before the date, 1c was able to raise money to complete the process, or they think it not to be so today you would have the game in your hands

people no longer remember the repeated phrase, "two weeks"

So I see

Byer

[David Hayward]

Adonys is correct I am sure Oleg, Luthier and Co would definitely wanted to release a finished product, you can't defend a half broken game...


I'm sure they would. Of course, that does not change the fact that complicated software is never optimized at release.

[Heliocon]

Luthier, thank you for this post, I believe it is what many people here have been waiting a long time for. If there are problems that need to be fixed I think everyone understands, but as often we have had the "next week it will be out" or "NASA we have a problem" type posts from the devs/community manager it leaves everyone in a lurch as to the nature of the difficulty. IMO I prefer one these updates over 4 months of updates that really say nothing about what is happening in the studio; this is the type of dialogue the community needs!

Thank you for the update, I hope you can continue to keep us informed similarly in the future, and we all look forward to seeing the fruits of your labour.

Cheers!

[priller26]

Great news, checking in from Vienna...so beautiful here, i will check back next week when i return. Thanks for the update, the frame rate increase is very exciting!

[6S.Manu]

I'm sure they would. Of course, that does not change the fact that complicated software is never optimized at release.
I'm really confused about your definition of "optimization at release"...

You optimize the software to have better performance of course, but you do it through small fixes (in a complicated software as you say): you add/change code to handle hardware issue for example (a fix can be the one for the Ati cards, do you remember the Ubi movie's issue?). Still it's hardly possible to have a 100% increase of performance because it means that you really did a great mistake during the develpment.

The graphic engine was clearly broken at the release, I've always stated that didn't need fixes, but a serious redesign... sadly I was right.

[BigC208]

If they can optimize it and get twice the framerate, while keeping the same graphics qulity I would be surprised, (pleasantly, that is). There is so much more going on under the hood of this thing than Il2 1946. I'm amazed I can run it at the framerates I am getting right now. If it was not for the occasional stutter or slowdown during explosions and close up shooting of bombers, it be fine with me as is.

These developers clearly took on to much hay on their pitchfork when they first started the game. Looking forward to see it all come into fruition.

[Winger]

If they can optimize it and get twice the framerate, while keeping the same graphics qulity I would be surprised, (pleasantly, that is). There is so much more going on under the hood of this thing than Il2 1946. I'm amazed I can run it at the framerates I am getting right now. If it was not for the occasional stutter or slowdown during explosions and close up shooting of bombers, it be fine with me as is.

These developers clearly took on to much hay on their pitchfork when they first started the game. Looking forward to see it all come into fruition.

I cannot agree here. The graphics ARE nice of CLOD BUT a mid to high end pc of today should be able to run this at NEVER under 60 frames. There simply must be some big mess under this CLOD-hood. Just like they themselves admit. And i believe it should really be possible to get this sorted. Also i really hope that with this new release of the graphics engine there will also be HDR, bloom and most of all FSAA included ALONG with a huge FPS increase. Anything below that will make any patch release REALLY embarrassing for Ilya and 1C.

Winger

[ATAG_Bliss]

The big mess is all the variables going on, well, for anything. Yes the graphics engine is no doubt the FPS killer, but there's a heck of a lot going on.

I don't expect a low range PC will ever run this very well. And I still think it will be a while, even after the overhaul, that anyone can even think about cranking every single setting up to max and have good frames at all times.

Just look at some of the main components of the damage model:

namespace part
{
using System;
using System.Reflection;

[Obfuscation(Exclude=true, ApplyToMembers=true)]
public enum NamedDamageTypes
{
Nil,
FuelPumpFailure,
FuelTank0TinyLeak,
FuelTank1TinyLeak,
FuelTank2TinyLeak,
FuelTank3TinyLeak,
FuelTank4TinyLeak,
FuelTank5TinyLeak,
FuelTank6TinyLeak,
FuelTank7TinyLeak,
FuelTank0SmallLeak,
FuelTank1SmallLeak,
FuelTank2SmallLeak,
FuelTank3SmallLeak,
FuelTank4SmallLeak,
FuelTank5SmallLeak,
FuelTank6SmallLeak,
FuelTank7SmallLeak,
FuelTank0LargeLeak,
FuelTank1LargeLeak,
FuelTank2LargeLeak,
FuelTank3LargeLeak,
FuelTank4LargeLeak,
FuelTank5LargeLeak,
FuelTank6LargeLeak,
FuelTank7LargeLeak,
FuelTank0Fire,
FuelTank1Fire,
FuelTank2Fire,
FuelTank3Fire,
FuelTank4Fire,
FuelTank5Fire,
FuelTank6Fire,
FuelTank7Fire,
FuelTank0Exploded,
FuelTank1Exploded,
FuelTank2Exploded,
FuelTank3Exploded,
FuelTank4Exploded,
FuelTank5Exploded,
FuelTank6Exploded,
FuelTank7Exploded,
FuelTank0HosePerforated,
FuelTank1HosePerforated,
FuelTank2HosePerforated,
FuelTank3HosePerforated,
FuelTank4HosePerforated,
FuelTank5HosePerforated,
FuelTank6HosePerforated,
FuelTank7HosePerforated,
FuelTank0PumpFailure,
FuelTank1PumpFailure,
FuelTank2PumpFailure,
FuelTank3PumpFailure,
FuelTank4PumpFailure,
FuelTank5PumpFailure,
FuelTank6PumpFailure,
FuelTank7PumpFailure,
ElecGeneratorFailure,
ElecBatteryFailure,
ElecPrimaryFailure,
ElecSecondaryFailure,
ElecMasterCompassFailure,
ElecWeaponryFailure,
ElecPriNavigationFailure,
ElecSecNavigationFailure,
ElecTransceiverFailure,
ElecIlluminationFailure,
HydraulicsPumpFailure,
HydraulicsPrimaryHosePerforated,
HydraulicsPistonOpened,
HydraulicsEmergencyFailure,
HydraulicsTankPerforated,
PneumaticsCompressorFailure,
PneumaticsPrimaryContainerPerforated,
PneumaticsSecondaryContainerPerforated,
PneumaticsPrimaryHosePerforated,
PneumaticsSecondaryHosePerforated,
Machinegun00Failure,
Machinegun01Failure,
Machinegun02Failure,
Machinegun03Failure,
Machinegun04Failure,
Machinegun05Failure,
Machinegun06Failure,
Machinegun07Failure,
Machinegun08Failure,
Machinegun09Failure,
Machinegun10Failure,
Machinegun11Failure,
Machinegun00BeltBroken,
Machinegun01BeltBroken,
Machinegun02BeltBroken,
Machinegun03BeltBroken,
Machinegun04BeltBroken,
Machinegun05BeltBroken,
Machinegun06BeltBroken,
Machinegun07BeltBroken,
Machinegun08BeltBroken,
Machinegun09BeltBroken,
Machinegun10BeltBroken,
Machinegun11BeltBroken,
Machinegun00Jammed,
Machinegun01Jammed,
Machinegun02Jammed,
Machinegun03Jammed,
Machinegun04Jammed,
Machinegun05Jammed,
Machinegun06Jammed,
Machinegun07Jammed,
Machinegun08Jammed,
Machinegun09Jammed,
Machinegun10Jammed,
Machinegun11Jammed,
Machinegun00Charged,
Machinegun01Charged,
Machinegun02Charged,
Machinegun03Charged,
Machinegun04Charged,
Machinegun05Charged,
Machinegun06Charged,
Machinegun07Charged,
Machinegun08Charged,
Machinegun09Charged,
Machinegun10Charged,
Machinegun11Charged,
Machinegun00LineDamaged,
Machinegun01LineDamaged,
Machinegun02LineDamaged,
Machinegun03LineDamaged,
Machinegun04LineDamaged,
Machinegun05LineDamaged,
Machinegun06LineDamaged,
Machinegun07LineDamaged,
Machinegun08LineDamaged,
Machinegun09LineDamaged,
Machinegun10LineDamaged,
Machinegun11LineDamaged,
ControlsGenericKickdown,
ControlsAileronsDisabled,
ControlsElevatorDisabled,
ControlsRudderDisabled,
LandingFlapsPistonFailure1,
LandingFlapsPistonFailure2,
LandingFlapsKinematicFailure1,
LandingFlapsKinematicFailure2,
LandingFlapsDriveFailure,
LandingFlapsHosePerforated,
AirbrakeHosePerforated,
AirbrakeDriveFailure,
AirbrakePistonFailure,
WheelBrakesFailureL,
WheelBrakesFailureR,
WheelBrakesTotalFailure,
WheelBrakesHosePerforated,
UndercarriageShockFailureL,
UndercarriageShockFailureR,
UndercarriageShockFailureC,
UndercarriageUpLockFailureL,
UndercarriageUpLockFailureR,
UndercarriageUpLockFailureC,
UndercarriageDownLockFailureL,
UndercarriageDownLockFailureR,
UndercarriageDownLockFailureC,
UndercarriageKinematicFailureL,
UndercarriageKinematicFailureR,
UndercarriageKinematicFailureC,
UndercarriageHosePerforated,
UndercarriageDriveDamaged,
CockpitDamageFlag00,
CockpitDamageFlag01,
CockpitDamageFlag02,
CockpitDamageFlag03,
CockpitDamageFlag04,
CockpitDamageFlag05,
CockpitDamageFlag06,
CockpitDamageFlag07,
CockpitDamageFlag08,
CockpitDamageFlag09,
CockpitDamageFlag10,
CockpitDamageFlag11,
CockpitDamageFlag12,
CockpitDamageFlag13,
CockpitDamageFlag14,
Eng0TotalFailure,
Eng0TotalSeizure,
Eng0IntakeBurnt,
Eng0CompressorFailure,
Eng0CompressorGovernorFailure,
Eng0CompressorSeizure,
Eng0IntercoolerBurnt,
Eng0CarbFailure,
Eng0CarbControlsFailure,
Eng0FuelLinePerforated,
Eng0FuelPumpFailure,
Eng0FuelSecondariesFire,
Eng0Magneto0Failure,
Eng0Magneto1Failure,
Eng0OilPumpFailure,
Eng0OilRadiatorPerforated,
Eng0OilLineBroken,
Eng0OilGasketLeak,
Eng0OilSecondariesFire,
Eng0OilSecondariesExtinguished,
Eng0OilTankPerforated,
Eng0WaterPumpFailure,
Eng0WaterRadiatorPerforated,
Eng0WaterLineBroken,
Eng0WaterTankPerforated,
Eng0WaterJacketBroken,
Eng0CylinderHeadFire,
Eng0CylinderHeadExtinguished,
Eng0ExhaustHeadFailure,
Eng0GovernorFailure,
Eng0GovernorSeizure,
Eng0ThrottleControlBroken,
Eng0PropControlBroken,
Eng0TretiaryControlBroken,
Eng0PropBlade0Broken,
Eng0PropBlade1Broken,
Eng0PropBlade2Broken,
Eng0PropBlade3Broken,
Eng0Plug00Failure,
Eng0Plug01Failure,
Eng0Plug02Failure,
Eng0Plug03Failure,
Eng0Plug04Failure,
Eng0Plug05Failure,
Eng0Plug06Failure,
Eng0Plug07Failure,
Eng0Plug08Failure,
Eng0Plug09Failure,
Eng0Plug10Failure,
Eng0Plug11Failure,
Eng0Plug12Failure,
Eng0Plug13Failure,
Eng0Plug14Failure,
Eng0Plug15Failure,
Eng0Plug16Failure,
Eng0Plug17Failure,
Eng1TotalFailure,
Eng1TotalSeizure,
Eng1IntakeBurnt,
Eng1CompressorFailure,
Eng1CompressorGovernorFailure,
Eng1CompressorSeizure,
Eng1IntercoolerBurnt,
Eng1CarbFailure,
Eng1CarbControlsFailure,
Eng1FuelLinePerforated,
Eng1FuelPumpFailure,
Eng1FuelSecondariesFire,
Eng1Magneto0Failure,
Eng1Magneto1Failure,
Eng1OilPumpFailure,
Eng1OilRadiatorPerforated,
Eng1OilLineBroken,
Eng1OilGasketLeak,
Eng1OilSecondariesFire,
Eng1OilSecondariesExtinguished,
Eng1OilTankPerforated,
Eng1WaterPumpFailure,
Eng1WaterRadiatorPerforated,
Eng1WaterLineBroken,
Eng1WaterTankPerforated,
Eng1WaterJacketBroken,
Eng1CylinderHeadFire,
Eng1CylinderHeadExtinguished,
Eng1ExhaustHeadFailure,
Eng1GovernorFailure,
Eng1GovernorSeizure,
Eng1ThrottleControlBroken,
Eng1PropControlBroken,
Eng1TretiaryControlBroken,
Eng1PropBlade0Broken,
Eng1PropBlade1Broken,
Eng1PropBlade2Broken,
Eng1PropBlade3Broken,
Eng1Plug00Failure,
Eng1Plug01Failure,
Eng1Plug02Failure,
Eng1Plug03Failure,
Eng1Plug04Failure,
Eng1Plug05Failure,
Eng1Plug06Failure,
Eng1Plug07Failure,
Eng1Plug08Failure,
Eng1Plug09Failure,
Eng1Plug10Failure,
Eng1Plug11Failure,
Eng1Plug12Failure,
Eng1Plug13Failure,
Eng1Plug14Failure,
Eng1Plug15Failure,
Eng1Plug16Failure,
Eng1Plug17Failure,
Eng2TotalFailure,
Eng2TotalSeizure,
Eng2IntakeBurnt,
Eng2CompressorFailure,
Eng2CompressorGovernorFailure,
Eng2CompressorSeizure,
Eng2IntercoolerBurnt,
Eng2CarbFailure,
Eng2CarbControlsFailure,
Eng2FuelLinePerforated,
Eng2FuelPumpFailure,
Eng2FuelSecondariesFire,
Eng2Magneto0Failure,
Eng2Magneto1Failure,
Eng2OilPumpFailure,
Eng2OilRadiatorPerforated,
Eng2OilLineBroken,
Eng2OilGasketLeak,
Eng2OilSecondariesFire,
Eng2OilSecondariesExtinguished,
Eng2OilTankPerforated,
Eng2WaterPumpFailure,
Eng2WaterRadiatorPerforated,
Eng2WaterLineBroken,
Eng2WaterTankPerforated,
Eng2WaterJacketBroken,
Eng2CylinderHeadFire,
Eng2CylinderHeadExtinguished,
Eng2ExhaustHeadFailure,
Eng2GovernorFailure,
Eng2GovernorSeizure,
Eng2ThrottleControlBroken,
Eng2PropControlBroken,
Eng2TretiaryControlBroken,
Eng2PropBlade0Broken,
Eng2PropBlade1Broken,
Eng2PropBlade2Broken,
Eng2PropBlade3Broken,
Eng2Plug00Failure,
Eng2Plug01Failure,
Eng2Plug02Failure,
Eng2Plug03Failure,
Eng2Plug04Failure,
Eng2Plug05Failure,
Eng2Plug06Failure,
Eng2Plug07Failure,
Eng2Plug08Failure,
Eng2Plug09Failure,
Eng2Plug10Failure,
Eng2Plug11Failure,
Eng2Plug12Failure,
Eng2Plug13Failure,
Eng2Plug14Failure,
Eng2Plug15Failure,
Eng2Plug16Failure,
Eng2Plug17Failure,
Eng3TotalFailure,
Eng3TotalSeizure,
Eng3IntakeBurnt,
Eng3CompressorFailure,
Eng3CompressorGovernorFailure,
Eng3CompressorSeizure,
Eng3IntercoolerBurnt,
Eng3CarbFailure,
Eng3CarbControlsFailure,
Eng3FuelLinePerforated,
Eng3FuelPumpFailure,
Eng3FuelSecondariesFire,
Eng3Magneto0Failure,
Eng3Magneto1Failure,
Eng3OilPumpFailure,
Eng3OilRadiatorPerforated,
Eng3OilLineBroken,
Eng3OilGasketLeak,
Eng3OilSecondariesFire,
Eng3OilSecondariesExtinguished,
Eng3OilTankPerforated,
Eng3WaterPumpFailure,
Eng3WaterRadiatorPerforated,
Eng3WaterLineBroken,
Eng3WaterTankPerforated,
Eng3WaterJacketBroken,
Eng3CylinderHeadFire,
Eng3CylinderHeadExtinguished,
Eng3ExhaustHeadFailure,
Eng3GovernorFailure,
Eng3GovernorSeizure,
Eng3ThrottleControlBroken,
Eng3PropControlBroken,
Eng3TretiaryControlBroken,
Eng3PropBlade0Broken,
Eng3PropBlade1Broken,
Eng3PropBlade2Broken,
Eng3PropBlade3Broken,
Eng3Plug00Failure,
Eng3Plug01Failure,
Eng3Plug02Failure,
Eng3Plug03Failure,
Eng3Plug04Failure,
Eng3Plug05Failure,
Eng3Plug06Failure,
Eng3Plug07Failure,
Eng3Plug08Failure,
Eng3Plug09Failure,
Eng3Plug10Failure,
Eng3Plug11Failure,
Eng3Plug12Failure,
Eng3Plug13Failure,
Eng3Plug14Failure,
Eng3Plug15Failure,
Eng3Plug16Failure,
Eng3Plug17Failure,
Eng4TotalFailure,
Eng4TotalSeizure,
Eng4IntakeBurnt,
Eng4CompressorFailure,
Eng4CompressorGovernorFailure,
Eng4CompressorSeizure,
Eng4IntercoolerBurnt,
Eng4CarbFailure,
Eng4CarbControlsFailure,
Eng4FuelLinePerforated,
Eng4FuelPumpFailure,
Eng4FuelSecondariesFire,
Eng4Magneto0Failure,
Eng4Magneto1Failure,
Eng4OilPumpFailure,
Eng4OilRadiatorPerforated,
Eng4OilLineBroken,
Eng4OilGasketLeak,
Eng4OilSecondariesFire,
Eng4OilSecondariesExtinguished,
Eng4OilTankPerforated,
Eng4WaterPumpFailure,
Eng4WaterRadiatorPerforated,
Eng4WaterLineBroken,
Eng4WaterTankPerforated,
Eng4WaterJacketBroken,
Eng4CylinderHeadFire,
Eng4CylinderHeadExtinguished,
Eng4ExhaustHeadFailure,
Eng4GovernorFailure,
Eng4GovernorSeizure,
Eng4ThrottleControlBroken,
Eng4PropControlBroken,
Eng4TretiaryControlBroken,
Eng4PropBlade0Broken,
Eng4PropBlade1Broken,
Eng4PropBlade2Broken,
Eng4PropBlade3Broken,
Eng4Plug00Failure,
Eng4Plug01Failure,
Eng4Plug02Failure,
Eng4Plug03Failure,
Eng4Plug04Failure,
Eng4Plug05Failure,
Eng4Plug06Failure,
Eng4Plug07Failure,
Eng4Plug08Failure,
Eng4Plug09Failure,
Eng4Plug10Failure,
Eng4Plug11Failure,
Eng4Plug12Failure,
Eng4Plug13Failure,
Eng4Plug14Failure,
Eng4Plug15Failure,
Eng4Plug16Failure,
Eng4Plug17Failure,
Eng5TotalFailure,
Eng5TotalSeizure,
Eng5IntakeBurnt,
Eng5CompressorFailure,
Eng5CompressorGovernorFailure,
Eng5CompressorSeizure,
Eng5IntercoolerBurnt,
Eng5CarbFailure,
Eng5CarbControlsFailure,
Eng5FuelLinePerforated,
Eng5FuelPumpFailure,
Eng5FuelSecondariesFire,
Eng5Magneto0Failure,
Eng5Magneto1Failure,
Eng5OilPumpFailure,
Eng5OilRadiatorPerforated,
Eng5OilLineBroken,
Eng5OilGasketLeak,
Eng5OilSecondariesFire,
Eng5OilSecondariesExtinguished,
Eng5OilTankPerforated,
Eng5WaterPumpFailure,
Eng5WaterRadiatorPerforated,
Eng5WaterLineBroken,
Eng5WaterTankPerforated,
Eng5WaterJacketBroken,
Eng5CylinderHeadFire,
Eng5CylinderHeadExtinguished,
Eng5ExhaustHeadFailure,
Eng5GovernorFailure,
Eng5GovernorSeizure,
Eng5ThrottleControlBroken,
Eng5PropControlBroken,
Eng5TretiaryControlBroken,
Eng5PropBlade0Broken,
Eng5PropBlade1Broken,
Eng5PropBlade2Broken,
Eng5PropBlade3Broken,
Eng5Plug00Failure,
Eng5Plug01Failure,
Eng5Plug02Failure,
Eng5Plug03Failure,
Eng5Plug04Failure,
Eng5Plug05Failure,
Eng5Plug06Failure,
Eng5Plug07Failure,
Eng5Plug08Failure,
Eng5Plug09Failure,
Eng5Plug10Failure,
Eng5Plug11Failure,
Eng5Plug12Failure,
Eng5Plug13Failure,
Eng5Plug14Failure,
Eng5Plug15Failure,
Eng5Plug16Failure,
Eng5Plug17Failure,
Eng6TotalFailure,
Eng6TotalSeizure,
Eng6IntakeBurnt,
Eng6CompressorFailure,
Eng6CompressorGovernorFailure,
Eng6CompressorSeizure,
Eng6IntercoolerBurnt,
Eng6CarbFailure,
Eng6CarbControlsFailure,
Eng6FuelLinePerforated,
Eng6FuelPumpFailure,
Eng6FuelSecondariesFire,
Eng6Magneto0Failure,
Eng6Magneto1Failure,
Eng6OilPumpFailure,
Eng6OilRadiatorPerforated,
Eng6OilLineBroken,
Eng6OilGasketLeak,
Eng6OilSecondariesFire,
Eng6OilSecondariesExtinguished,
Eng6OilTankPerforated,
Eng6WaterPumpFailure,
Eng6WaterRadiatorPerforated,
Eng6WaterLineBroken,
Eng6WaterTankPerforated,
Eng6WaterJacketBroken,
Eng6CylinderHeadFire,
Eng6CylinderHeadExtinguished,
Eng6ExhaustHeadFailure,
Eng6GovernorFailure,
Eng6GovernorSeizure,
Eng6ThrottleControlBroken,
Eng6PropControlBroken,
Eng6TretiaryControlBroken,
Eng6PropBlade0Broken,
Eng6PropBlade1Broken,
Eng6PropBlade2Broken,
Eng6PropBlade3Broken,
Eng6Plug00Failure,
Eng6Plug01Failure,
Eng6Plug02Failure,
Eng6Plug03Failure,
Eng6Plug04Failure,
Eng6Plug05Failure,
Eng6Plug06Failure,
Eng6Plug07Failure,
Eng6Plug08Failure,
Eng6Plug09Failure,
Eng6Plug10Failure,
Eng6Plug11Failure,
Eng6Plug12Failure,
Eng6Plug13Failure,
Eng6Plug14Failure,
Eng6Plug15Failure,
Eng6Plug16Failure,
Eng6Plug17Failure,
Eng7TotalFailure,
Eng7TotalSeizure,
Eng7IntakeBurnt,
Eng7CompressorFailure,
Eng7CompressorGovernorFailure,
Eng7CompressorSeizure,
Eng7IntercoolerBurnt,
Eng7CarbFailure,
Eng7CarbControlsFailure,
Eng7FuelLinePerforated,
Eng7FuelPumpFailure,
Eng7FuelSecondariesFire,
Eng7Magneto0Failure,
Eng7Magneto1Failure,
Eng7OilPumpFailure,
Eng7OilRadiatorPerforated,
Eng7OilLineBroken,
Eng7OilGasketLeak,
Eng7OilSecondariesFire,
Eng7OilSecondariesExtinguished,
Eng7OilTankPerforated,
Eng7WaterPumpFailure,
Eng7WaterRadiatorPerforated,
Eng7WaterLineBroken,
Eng7WaterTankPerforated,
Eng7WaterJacketBroken,
Eng7CylinderHeadFire,
Eng7CylinderHeadExtinguished,
Eng7ExhaustHeadFailure,
Eng7GovernorFailure,
Eng7GovernorSeizure,
Eng7ThrottleControlBroken,
Eng7PropControlBroken,
Eng7TretiaryControlBroken,
Eng7PropBlade0Broken,
Eng7PropBlade1Broken,
Eng7PropBlade2Broken,
Eng7PropBlade3Broken,
Eng7Plug00Failure,
Eng7Plug01Failure,
Eng7Plug02Failure,
Eng7Plug03Failure,
Eng7Plug04Failure,
Eng7Plug05Failure,
Eng7Plug06Failure,
Eng7Plug07Failure,
Eng7Plug08Failure,
Eng7Plug09Failure,
Eng7Plug10Failure,
Eng7Plug11Failure,
Eng7Plug12Failure,
Eng7Plug13Failure,
Eng7Plug14Failure,
Eng7Plug15Failure,
Eng7Plug16Failure,
Eng7Plug17Failure,
ChunkSmallDamage,
ChunkLargeDamage,
PartSmallDamage,
PartLargeDamage,
WeaponSmallDamage,
WeaponLargeDamage,
EngineSmallDamage,
EngineLargeDamage,
LifeKeeperPartSmallDamage,
LifeKeeperPartLargeDamage,
MaxValue
}
}

[MOH_Hirth]

I ever will support 1C TEAM, like a simulator fan since first IL-2 CD version, i buy COD and i know is great game and like IL-2 Sturmovik, never will be "OK" ever will need new improvements and fixes...

Hope you let the door opened for mods improvements, you know how good was for improve the old game IL-2.

All the best for you!

[GF_Mastiff]

hey Bliss can't that be condensed?

[GF_Mastiff]

I ever will support 1C TEAM, like a simulator fan since first IL-2 CD version, i buy COD and i know is great game and like IL-2 Sturmovik, never will be "OK" ever will need new improvements and fixes...

Hope you let the door opened for mods improvements, you know how good was for improve the old game IL-2.

All the best for you!

yeep over 350 people over the weekend playing IL2 1946 and up3.0.
Cliffs of dover I saw maybe 50 total all weekend.
what does that tell you? When the patch hits I expect it to change drastically though.

[MadTommy]

We cannot wait to prove our detractors wrong, crush the competition, and give our fans what they are looking for with our next major release!

The trinity..... there must be a miracle due.

[hiro]

thanks for the update and keep at it.


excellent news and good being positive when lots in the community are hurting and floundering in hope.

this year 2012 will not mayan end but it will be a new beginning for you and us.




We cannot wait to prove our detractors wrong, crush the competition, and give our fans what they are looking for with our next major release!

Thank you again for your support!


Ilya Shevchenko
Lead Development Producer




funny:

Armchair General: Hao! Dai ye! We won again! This is good, but what is best in life?

Sim Pilot: The open steppe, lend lease fleet planes, sticks at your wrist, and the wind in your hair.

Armchair General: Wrong! Luthier! What is best in life?

Luthier: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women.

Armchair General: That is good! That is good.

[carguy_]

I cannot agree here. The graphics ARE nice of CLOD BUT a mid to high end pc of today should be able to run this at NEVER under 60 frames.
Because you said so?


There simply must be some big mess under this CLOD-hood.
I believe you are mistaking threads. This is not "Cristal Ball 2" thread.


Also i really hope that with this new release of the graphics engine there will also be HDR, bloom and most of all FSAA included ALONG with a huge FPS increase. Anything below that will make any patch release REALLY embarrassing for Ilya and 1C.

Disagree 101%

[NLS61]

Carguy I agree 101 % with you.

[robtek]

ditto

[adonys]

Complicated applications are never optimized at initial release. How long have you been programming?

your logic is flawed.. to say at least.

and, I've started learning programming by learning assembly for the Z80 microprocessor in 1985. I've also graduated and IT University in 2002. We're in 2012, so, it's around 25 years.. give or take :) I'm also working in game development industry from 2002, as lead game designer and senior producer. those are another 10 years :)

and you? how long have you been programming? or working in game developing industry? and in which position?

you're completely out of reason, and obviously don't have any kind of expertise in this field. you're just trolling!

IL2CoD it is NOT the most complicated game out-there. Or the one having the best graphics engine, or renderer.

This 100% performance increase (and assuming it's measured on the same hardware.. but otherwise it would have been misleading to advertise it as so) can only come from actually coding a render engine in a proper way, which implies that the previous render was coded in an amateurish way.

You can not call "optimization" a render engine 100% performance increase rewrite, but.. bug-fixing!

[Ataros]

Also i really hope that with this new release of the graphics engine there will also be HDR, bloom and most of all FSAA included ALONG with a huge FPS increase. Anything below that will make any patch release REALLY embarrassing for Ilya and 1C.

It would be more reliable/reasonable to go one step at a time to make bug-hunting in the beta-patch easier. Further graphic enhancements logically imply FPS hit. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

[adonys]

Actually, graphic engine features must be planned and codded right from the start, to have them integrated from the beginning. It's faster and safer this way.

[Ataros]

IL2CoD it is NOT the most complicated game out-there.

Do you mean only graphics engine or modelling of technical details as well? I do not play all the games on the market and can not say for sure but I have not seen more complex games in terms of technical modelling like different cooling, braking or fuel systems for different planes, various instruments and controls operations, damage effects on systems of each different plane, etc., etc.

E.g. ArmA is a complex game and has a lot of different equipment but IMO it does not go into this much details that means it is less complicated to me. MS FS may be more complicated in some areas but it does not do damage modelling. DCS is very advanced but it does not deal with different systems of different aircraft - only one per release. Could you name games which are more complicated in technical detail, please, if you mean this kind of complexity?

I think technical complexity can course bugs and performance bottle-necks when so many pieces are put together, especially if the team is small and many developers were replaced during development period. Of cause there could be better development or management practices in other countries but they make development too expensive for flight sim market. Otherwise WWII flightsims would be developed in EU, USA, etc. No one does it for a reason - there is not enough financing to make a good successful product. Let's hope 1C does not quit soon.

Actually, graphic engine features must be planned and codded right from the start, to have them integrated from the beginning. It's faster and safer this way.

I hope they had enough resources and time for this when they rushed rework of the engine last year. Luthier mentioned in the update that they work in constant stress situation for more than a year already. Stress is not the best friend for planning and thinking in advance. We call it "fire-fighting work mode" here, when there is no time to think :) Sad but true. Initial mistakes and then 2008 crisis, 2009 Softclub merger, 2010 separation with Oleg and forced early 2011 release did not help to work according to original plans either I guess.

[DroopSnoot]

and give our fans what they are looking for with our next major release!


Does this mean we wont have the bettered engine and features until the BoM expansion? Or does next big release mean the patch?

[Sutts]

IL2CoD it is NOT the most complicated game out-there. Or the one having the best graphics engine, or renderer.



Yes, I'd like to hear your idea of a more complicated game too. I really don't think there is one out there. All the FPS games are no where near as complicated under the hood. On top of the incredible internal and external object models there's the flight model, ground physics model, damage model, systems model, ballistics model, atmospheric model including lighting (to be expanded when resources allow) and incredible landscape detail over a huge area. The way the sun rises and sets, even the stars at night are correct.

The attention to detail in CloD can be easy to overlook but should not be ignored. Modern shooters like Battlefield have nice looking figures running around a very detailed environment but the code behind the scenes is still far simpler than what CloD is trying to achieve and the maps are tiny in comparison.

[David Hayward]

IL2CoD it is NOT the most complicated game out-there. Or the one having the best graphics engine, or renderer.


This is called a Straw Man fallacy.

I never said that it was the MOST complicated, nor did I say that it has the best graphics engine. I said that "complicated software is never optimized at release." The logic in that statement is solid. I've been employed as a programmer since 1986.

You probably should not use logical fallacies when you are criticizing someone else's logic.

[adonys]

This is called a Straw Man fallacy.

I never said that it was the MOST complicated, nor did I say that it has the best graphics engine. I said that "complicated software is never optimized at release." The logic in that statement is solid. I've been employed as a programmer since 1986.

You probably should not use logical fallacies when you are criticizing someone else's logic.

Software is, most of the time, optimized before release. Here are some examples of very complicated software which run fine at release:

- TESV: Skyrim
- Mafia II

Are those enough? or you want more?

Also, both games have HUGE worlds. With hundreds or even thousands of actors (AIs) and objects. Both of above games have also complex game subsystems.

[GraveyardJimmy]

Software is, most of the time, optimized before release. Here are some examples of very complicated software which run fine at release:

- TESV: Skyrim
- Mafia II

Are those enough? or you want more?

Also, both games have HUGE worlds. With hundreds or even thousands of actors (AIs) and objects. Both of above games have also complex game subsystems.

Both games published by much larger and more financed companies. They also aren't as complex as calculating flight physics and damage modelling, engine management etc.

[David Hayward]

Software is, most of the time, optimized before release. Here are some examples of very complicated software which run fine at release:

- TESV: Skyrim
- Mafia II


Apparently we are using different definitions of "optimized". "Running fine" is NOT the same as "optimized".

To me it means "Make the best or most effective use of a resource". That means the code should be as efficient as is possible. I have no idea why you think that either of those games were as efficient as possible at release, but I would bet that you're wrong.

We find ways to make code more efficient all the time.

[6S.Tamat]

The complexity of the simulation and of the damage model is really a matter of faith until you have a way to test what is doing the simulator.

You can have that on some simulators
like xplane and rfactor in a very clear and clever way
xplane:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_NDeSPCMks

rfactor 2 tyre consumption and dynamic simulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZWeEoOxKKw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oha1bQ9C174


that is a kind of complexity that you can compare with the real life simply because you see what is happening in the simulation.

The problem with Cod is that we don't have at all that kind of insurance on the physically correct simulation.

I'm sorry and I would like very much to say the contrary, but for now we have a Physic simulation with huge problems (velocity and ceiling of aircrafts is the very basic of the parameters to judge a correspondance with the reality) and a Damage Model that allows the Hurricane to fly with half wing cut off.
We were promised to have the acrobatic airplane to be able to admire the physic model but there is anything about it more than the promise before of the release.
About the damage model we don't know how it is made and we have not at all any analisys instrument to understand it (I hope to be corrected asap).
It seems that the convergence of the weapons is bugged, but how do we know that the ammo damage is made in a correct way ( or at least with a clear logic on which you can debate but at least you know it)

[Peaveywolf]

Software is, most of the time, optimized before release. Here are some examples of very complicated software which run fine at release:

- TESV: Skyrim
- Mafia II

Are those enough? or you want more?

Also, both games have HUGE worlds. With hundreds or even thousands of actors (AIs) and objects. Both of above games have also complex game subsystems.

Those are both games with very little depth in them. They are not complex like a flight sim. At least try and be in the same ballpark

[6S.Tamat]

Apparently we are using different definitions of "optimized". "Running fine" is NOT the same as "optimized".

To me it means "Make the best or most effective use of a resource". That means the code should be as efficient as is possible. I have no idea why you think that either of those games were as efficient as possible at release, but I would bet that you're wrong.

We find ways to make code more efficient all the time.
There is an huge difference between a software that needs to be optimized and a sowtware that needs a huge remake of a core system like the graphic engine... but perhaps I was thinking that was obvious but is not.

[Sutts]

Software is, most of the time, optimized before release. Here are some examples of very complicated software which run fine at release:

- TESV: Skyrim
- Mafia II

Are those enough? or you want more?

Also, both games have HUGE worlds. With hundreds or even thousands of actors (AIs) and objects. Both of above games have also complex game subsystems.


Sorry, but neither of those are anywhere near as complex as CloD. Nice character animation, sure, but a far stretch from modelling land sea and air and all the complexity and physics of a whole bunch of WWII aircraft and weapons systems.

You'll be telling me they model the ballistics of their pistols next.

[6S.Tamat]

Those are both games with very little depth in them. They are not complex like a flight sim. At least try and be in the same ballpark

do you have an idea of how complex is to manage only the facial expressions of a so big amount of characters?

I provided more similar examples, but talking about complexity it is not true that a flight simulator is more complex; more physic calculations is not meaning more complex. IMHO.

[David Hayward]

There is an huge difference between a software that needs to be optimized and a sowtware that needs a huge remake of a core system like the graphic engine... but perhaps I was thinking that was obvious but is not.

Sometimes you can optimize code by making small changes. Sometimes it requires big changes. It's not always possible to know that you made bad choices early in the design process.

[Sutts]

do you have an idea of how complex is to manage only the facial expressions of a so big amount of characters?

I provided more similar examples, but talking about complexity it is not true that a flight simulator is more complex; more physic calculations is not meaning more complex. IMHO.


If you were a programmer you'd know that the same routine would be used for all the characters in the game with different data plugged in. More facial expressions is not meaning more complex.

[6S.Manu]

Sometimes you can optimize code by making small changes. Sometimes it requires big changes. It's not always possible to know that you made bad choices early in the design process.
Of course but you recognize those BIG problems during the testing of the Alpha version... not at release!

[Insuber]

You can continue this discussion forever, because there is no common measure of the "complexity" of a game. As Tamat says, the complexity of a sim is a matter of faith. And a physical FM can be less complex than a parametric FM.

[David Hayward]

Of course but you recognize those BIG problems during the testing of the Alpha version... not at release!

Not if you run out of time and money and have no choice but to release. Then you release anyways and hope that you can fix it after release.

Does that situation sound familiar?

[6S.Manu]

Not if you run out of time and money and have no choice but to release. Then you release anyways and hope that you can fix it after release.

Does that situation sound familiar?
I can't disagree with you here but you said:
Complicated applications are never optimized at initial release. How long have you been programming?
So is every complicated application released because of these issues? :-|

I don't think so.

[d.burnette]

Of course but you recognize those BIG problems during the testing of the Alpha version... not at release!

I tell you guys I always think of one thing in anything that might "bug" me, and I truly always try at least to live by it.

Never sweat the "small stuff", don't sweat the " stuff you cannot control", never look back because " you can't change a dang thing that has already occured".
The only thing I myself can do, from my perspective, is control " how I react" to these things as they occur - and I try to keep the above in mind when I do.

It is amazing when things happen to us, that are really big - like health issues, major surgeries, or worse,or to our loved ones - how are perceptions on the thing we once thought of how very important they were, all of a sudden - they really were not and meant very little.

Just sharing my newbie wisdom of the day...
:)

Have fun!

[6S.Tamat]

If you were a programmer you'd know that the same routine would be used for all the characters in the game with different data plugged in. More facial expressions is not meaning more complex.

You need to program the behaviour of the facial expressions with all the different faces also of different races, I am not a professional programmer, but talking about CG effects what you explain to be simple or routine was one of the more complex problems that the movie avatar had. Gaming industry is different obviously, but again complexity is not only something that you can analyse on the final code only..

[6S.Manu]

You can continue this discussion forever, because there is no common measure of the "complexity" of a game. As Tamat says, the complexity of a sim is a matter of faith. And a physical FM can be less complex than a parametric FM.
Infact after the release I was scared about the CloD stage of development since the quantity of evident bugs... just think about at the ones that you don't see (FM, DM ect).

IMO the developer should build SDKs just to test those engines, initially to debug the engine itself and of course finally to tweak the plane's data.

[adonys]

Sorry, but neither of those are anywhere near as complex as CloD. Nice character animation, sure, but a far stretch from modelling land sea and air and all the complexity and physics of a whole bunch of WWII aircraft and weapons systems.

You'll be telling me they model the ballistics of their pistols next.

Really? and you know that from.. where?

Do you have ANY idea at all what it means to code a game like Skyrim, and a game like IL2CoD? What game systems are involved in those? How a game engine is working at all? And I am not talking about the graphics/render engine, but about the game engine..

Obviously, you don't, otherwise you would have not mentioned that.

Skyrim has a HUGE world. HUGE! And the Editor.. the TES Creator only in itself is more complex than the whole IL2CoD! Mafia II has physics and damage modelling of cars and weapons. And guess what? It also has collision, on all that HUGE world of it.

Want some other examples? Assassin's Creed games.. also with HUGE worlds, hundreds of buildings, lots of details, collision, hundreds of characters, and so on. Do you know how many animations had the system they've developed for AC1? ANY idea at all? I'll tell you: 10000 animations. Now come and tell me that Il2CoD is more complex than a game that has an animation system for the main character which manages and blends them as beautifully and seamlessly as AC does.. and I'll tell you you never worked on developing games and you don't have any idea what you're talking about!

Don't talk about thing you don't know.. just because you think, I assume from what you "see", that IL2CoD is more complex than those games, it doesn't make it so!

[nearmiss]

Air combat simulators are very complex.

Every bullet fired has plotted trajectory, every aircraft in the scenario is flying and shooting.

Everything moving has to be accounted for when you compare games.

As long as you see the movement that is all being plotted.

The graphics are doing their thing as well on every moving and non-moving object in the scenario.

[David Hayward]

So is every complicated application released because of these issues? :-|

I don't think so.

The problem is that there are several definitions of "optimized".

User: It works on my machine.
Programmer: It's as efficient as possible (something that NEVER happens)
Developer: It's as efficient as our budget and release schedule make possible.

[adonys]

If you were a programmer you'd know that the same routine would be used for all the characters in the game with different data plugged in. More facial expressions is not meaning more complex.

and if YOU were a programmer, you would know that the same routine is also used by all the airplanes in IL2.

The complexity of a game is given by the routines which are managing the actors, their situation in the world and their behavior in the same world, not by the numbers of actors by itself.

[Bewolf]

Really? and you know that from.. where?

Do you have ANY idea at all what it means to code a game like Skyrim, and a game like IL2CoD? What game systems are involved in those? How a game engine is working at all? And I am not talking about the graphics/render engine, but about the game engine..

Obviously, you don't, otherwise you would have not mentioned that.

Skyrim has a HUGE world. HUGE! Mafia II has physics and damage modelling of cars and weapons. And guess what? It also has collision, on all that HUGE world of it.

Want some other examples? Assassin's Creed games.. also with HUGE worlds, hundreds of buildings, lots of details, collision, hundreds of characters, and so on. Do you know how many animations had the system they've developed for AC1? ANY idea at all? I'll tell you: 10000 animations. Now come and tell me that Il2CoD is more complex than a game that has an animations system for the main character which manages and blends them as beautifully and seamlessly as Ac does.. and I'll tell you you never worked on developing games and you don't have any idea what you're talking about!

Don't talk about thing you don't know.. just because you think, I assume from what you "see", that IL2CoD is more complex than those games, it doesn't make it so!

You can talk about those games all day long, and it is argueable in what way those are more or less complex then CloD. But these games were all released from big studios with propper financial backing and with talents from all over the world. 1C on the other hand is almost at home garage level when it comes to team size. By mere maths they will need much longer then an established studio to get their stuff done, especially when it comes to the standarts CloD wanted to achieve.
Insofar the comparison to those games does not really hold.

[adonys]

Air combat simulators are very complex.

Every bullet fired has plotted trajectory, every aircraft in the scenario is flying and shooting.

Everything moving has to be accounted for when you compare games.

As long as you see the movement that is all being plotted.

The graphics are doing their thing as well on every moving and non-moving object in the scenario.

And? I'd tell you about a game which was doing that WAY before IL2CoD.. and that's Battlefront's Combat Mission game (and series).

[adonys]

You can talk about those games all day long, and it is argueable in what way those are more or less complex then CloD. But these games were all released from big studios with propper financial backing and with talents from all over the world. 1C on the other hand is almost at home garage level when it comes to team size. By mere maths they will need much longer then an established studio to get their stuff done, especially when it comes to the standarts CloD wanted to achieve.
Insofar the comparison to those games does not really hold.

Well, yes and no.. Bethesda's team (Skyrim) is not so big as you would imagine. Nor Illusion Softwork's (Mafia II) one. And I've refrained from giving examples of really complex games as MMO's: WoW, Eve, WAR and SWTOR, exactly because had HUGE development teams involved in building them.

And the point was that many claimed the IL2CoD's code is the most/one of the most complex codes existent in game development industry, which is a false statement.

[robtek]

comparing apples and oranges must be really fascinating, especially if none of the participants is a developer of the software talked about, meaning everything said are guesstimates..

[philip.ed]

This is called a Straw Man fallacy.

I never said that it was the MOST complicated, nor did I say that it has the best graphics engine. I said that "complicated software is never optimized at release." The logic in that statement is solid. I've been employed as a programmer since 1986.

You probably should not use logical fallacies when you are criticizing someone else's logic.

David, you once mentioned you worked in a hospital. If the software there is never optimized, I seriously hope I never end up where you work buddy.

[Martin77]

I ve player Skyrim and Mafia.They are great games but

1 They had the time to finish the product
2 the budget and the people involved was much greater
3 nobody knows the problems they had due the development
4 Even when stand on a hill and can see very wide you can see ~8 km
in clod you can see from west england to Belgium
5 in those ganes you walk or drive a car. The engine has more time to render as when you fly a fast plane
6 Every second you fly your plane there are processes calculated affecting your plane.

[Sutts]

Skyrim has a HUGE world. HUGE! And the Editor.. the TES Creator only in itself is more complex than the whole IL2CoD!

Now you're embarrassing yourself mate, better stop before you make it any worse.

I admit there's a lot of work by graphic artists and 3D modellers in those games but in the end it's just a bunch of complex animations and scripted conversations with triggers, strung together with a bit of action to keep things interesting. Do you really believe they've modelled gun ballistics in those games? It's all smoke and mirrors.

Nowhere near the complexity of a flight sim which simulates the world and complex machines within it which interact in 3 dimensional space.

[Sutts]

I ve player Skyrim and Mafia.They are great games but

1 They had the time to finish the product
2 the budget and the people involved was much greater
3 nobody knows the problems they had due the development
4 Even when stand on a hill and can see very wide you can see ~8 km
in clod you can see from west england to Belgium
5 in those ganes you walk or drive a car. The engine has more time to render as when you fly a fast plane
6 Every second you fly your plane there are processes calculated affecting your plane.

+1

Every second you fly your plane there are processes calculated affecting your plane ...............and all the other objects visible for miles around, not just a street.

[David Hayward]

David, you once mentioned you worked in a hospital. If the software there is never optimized, I seriously hope I never end up where you work buddy.

That depends on your definition of "optimized". If it means "the software isn't going to kill you", then it's optimized. If it means "is working as efficiently as possible", then it isn't optimized.

BTW, I don't work in a hospital.

[GraveyardJimmy]

Now you're embarrassing yourself mate, better stop before you make it any worse.

I admit there's a lot of work by graphic artists and 3D modellers in those games but in the end it's just a bunch of complex animations and scripted conversations with triggers, strung together with a bit of action to keep things interesting. Do you really believe they've modelled gun ballistics in those games? It's all smoke and mirrors.

Nowhere near the complexity of a flight sim which simulates the world and complex machines within it which interact in 3 dimensional space.

Not only this, but it doesn't matter at all that there is a huge world. The world is not rendered all at the same time and there are view distance sliders for all objects that get rendered. The world is all created beforehand and they had 8 people just for dungeon design- not textures, art assets, graphics engine etc. With Cod there is haze, but there is far more being rendered (eg. buildings- each one is a 3d model, unlike skyrim).

The studio is so big they have their own (not the buildings) gym and a massive kitchen. As you can see from development pictures and updates, the CoD team barely fill a room. You cant compare the two really.

[addman]

I'm sorry to say, adonys but Skyrim for example is not a good example. Physics are off, there is no advanced a.i, everything you see is either 100% scripted or just randomly generated. For example, how often do you see any NPC characters in that game, go in to town, buy some materials for armor/sword and then goes to the blacksmith and make him/herself an armor or sword and after that proceeds to the pub and asks someone for a quest?
That's right, it never happens in that game. NPC's are just standing around doing nothing or walking around doing nothing, spitting out the same dialog over and over and over again. There is barely any a.i at all in that game methinks, either NPC's are attacking you or attacking someone/thing else, that's Doom level a.i right there.

Yes, sometimes when you are outside of a town you may see some random stuff happening, a group of bandits fighting a dragon or something but that's all it is, randomly generated stuff that a computer from the 90's can handle. I love Skyrim, I have it on Steam (Mafia 2 also) but it's grossly overrated, it has pretty graphics, cool dragons, interesting story, lovely music etc. but an advancement in videogames it is not IMO.

[CaptainDoggles]

+1

Every second you fly your plane there are processes calculated affecting your plane ...............and all the other objects visible for miles around, not just a street.

Don't get fooled. Flight sims are extraordinarily complex, but that isn't to say other games/programs are not as complex. MMO's for example are also extremely complex. The complexity merely lies in different areas. Instead of looking up performance data from an array or idealized formula (consumer flight sim) it might be handling thousands of database transactions per second (MMORPG) or rendering hundreds of sprites with as little latency as possible (multiplayer FPS).

Programming a 3D game is never trivial.

[mazex]

For example, how often do you see any NPC characters in that game, go in to town, buy some materials for armor/sword and then goes to the blacksmith and make him/herself an armor or sword and after that proceeds to the pub and asks someone for a quest?


Hey! Try walking around like that all day if you have taken an arrow to the knee yourself! ;)

[adonys]

+1

Every second you fly your plane there are processes calculated affecting your plane ...............and all the other objects visible for miles around, not just a street.

aaa.. what objects visible for miles around? You're not talking about IL2Cod, are you? because, actually in IL2CoD those objects you are mentioning are NOT there, unless you are within a mile or so from them. Go at 3k, and look down from above those huge radar antenas for example.. and.. you won't see them!

In AC you can climb atop of the highest building from a town, and see EVERYTHING around you, the whole damn town.

And about processing.. again you don't know what IL2 is really processing. Just load the map, and don't spawn any actor, spawn a plane, destroy it then just walk with the free camera, and write down your FPS.

Then do the same from your airplane, but without any cockpit (to not have the FPS influenced by rendering the cockpit), and write down FPS again. Spawn an AI in your flight, and fly with him, and again note the FPS with your flight mate in view, and not in view.

Then compare them all, and you might be surprised :)

A lot of the "complex" calculation of which you are talking about in IL2, are not actually there. many actually happen only when triggered (like when pressing the fire button, or when bullets are actually hitting something).

And don't mistake a big number of computations needed to be done with a complex computation system. those are different things.

I think you would understand better all of this if you try to find out a game engine development book, and try to read it.

As it is, you really don't know what's this about, not even the ones of you which are programmers, but never worked as game programmers.

[Walrus1]

:-xDavid, you once mentioned you worked in a hospital. If the software there is never optimized, I seriously hope I never end up where you work buddy.

LOL. I work in a hospital. The software that we use is by far the worst, dysfunctional, bug filled, poorly performing archaic garbage I have ever used in any type of application. It is obviously far, far from optimized and the update schedule is glacial. And it is used in hundreds (thousands?) of hospitals across the USA.

McKesson (http://www.mckesson.com/en_us/McKesson.com/)

[addman]

Hey! Try walking around like that all day if you have taken an arrow to the knee yourself! ;)

Shoot me, please do it.

[Dano]

Heh, Skyrim for the PS3 is still broken if you're looking for comparisons and yes, the developers are avoiding talking about it and no, they've not apologised at all ;)

[Jatta Raso]

David, you once mentioned you worked in a hospital. If the software there is never optimized, I seriously hope I never end up where you work buddy.

roftl

[smurf-oly]

And about processing.. again you don't know what IL2 is really processing. Just load the map, and don't spawn any actor, spawn a plane, destroy it then just walk with the free camera, and write down your FPS.

Just curious... how is the "free camera" view accessed?

[Sutts]

aaa.. what objects visible for miles around? You're not talking about IL2Cod, are you? because, actually in IL2CoD those objects you are mentioning are NOT there, unless you are within a mile or so from them. Go at 3k, and look down from above those huge radar antenas for example.. and.. you won't see them!

In AC you can climb atop of the highest building from a town, and see EVERYTHING around you, the whole damn town.

And about processing.. again you don't know what IL2 is really processing. Just load the map, and don't spawn any actor, spawn a plane, destroy it then just walk with the free camera, and write down your FPS.

Then do the same from your airplane, but without any cockpit (to not have the FPS influenced by rendering the cockpit), and write down FPS again. Spawn an AI in your flight, and fly with him, and again note the FPS with your flight mate in view, and not in view.

Then compare them all, and you might be surprised :)

A lot of the "complex" calculation of which you are talking about in IL2, are not actually there. many actually happen only when triggered (like when pressing the fire button, or when bullets are actually hitting something).

And don't mistake a big number of computations needed to be done with a complex computation system. those are different things.

I think you would understand better all of this if you try to find out a game engine development book, and try to read it.

As it is, you really don't know what's this about, not even the ones of you which are programmers, but never worked as game programmers.


Well it goes without saying that much of the processing is restricted to objects that fall within the player's bubble but that bubble is a darn sight larger than in the games you refer to due to the nature of air combat.

Then think about the miles and miles of wooded areas you can see from thousands of feet up.

>>In AC you can climb atop of the highest building from a town, and see >>EVERYTHING around you, the whole damn town.

Well try flying over a town in CloD - I think you'll find you can see the whole damn town too - amazing.

But in these complex programs you talk about, what does the program have to do other than track a bunch of actors and simplified vehicles around town, keeping track of the latest garbage script that's been spoken?

If you take away the characters with their nice animations and the convincing environment (which is possible when you're only rendering a street), there's not much going on really.

And don't try to be a judge of me and my development experience.

I very much doubt you're a professional game programmer yourself, probably just a jumped up dabbler like most folk who bs like you.

[tomandre81]

aaa.. what objects visible for miles around? You're not talking about IL2Cod, are you? because, actually in IL2CoD those objects you are mentioning are NOT there, unless you are within a mile or so from them. Go at 3k, and look down from above those huge radar antenas for example.. and.. you won't see them!

In AC you can climb atop of the highest building from a town, and see EVERYTHING around you, the whole damn town.

And about processing.. again you don't know what IL2 is really processing. Just load the map, and don't spawn any actor, spawn a plane, destroy it then just walk with the free camera, and write down your FPS.

Then do the same from your airplane, but without any cockpit (to not have the FPS influenced by rendering the cockpit), and write down FPS again. Spawn an AI in your flight, and fly with him, and again note the FPS with your flight mate in view, and not in view.

Then compare them all, and you might be surprised :)

A lot of the "complex" calculation of which you are talking about in IL2, are not actually there. many actually happen only when triggered (like when pressing the fire button, or when bullets are actually hitting something).

And don't mistake a big number of computations needed to be done with a complex computation system. those are different things.

I think you would understand better all of this if you try to find out a game engine development book, and try to read it.

As it is, you really don't know what's this about, not even the ones of you which are programmers, but never worked as game programmers.

You just forget that AC have about 1/1000000 map of the size as the il2:COD has. Plus the physics calculation are taking up a lot of resources in il2:COD. And in AC you could not see people rendered so far away, just buildings + a loading screen once you wanted to go to a new place.
**** game too, repetetive, easy and scripted. Most boring assassin game I have ever tried. Hitman bloodmoney is 10 x better. There you have freedom how to assassin your target

[Timberwolf]

Have to say in the past i wasn't a big IL-2 fan i use to play a other ww2 fighter online game till its closing The grafix's were no where near IL-2's But the eazy to start and go and dogfight was what kept me coming back .. the idea of buttons engine warm ups etc and huge map with small numbers of players isn't ideal for me ..I first started playing this game lost .. having tried setting my joystick to a airplane that was bouncing up and down on take off and downloading a PDF file on how to use the controls seems between the lag and freezes and jumping and the unstable controls and lack of 5 hours to set up everything I found my self my own game programmer then a dogfighter then white knuckes and a big grin

That was in april of 2011 when most in North America never had the game
I didn't mind the Bugs etc But to find out you need to find hidden switches outside the plane or behind this Or no clue on how to use diffrent ammo settings ..add this and that and hearing a new update was coming on grafix fix and bug fix Or finding my airspeed in a spitfire was matched by a JU 87 had me a loss. WAY too much to this SIM to just have a good old dogfight

Just wasn't worth it for me . I cut my lost and after upgrading my Motherboard never bothered to reinstall COD back 5 months ago
I see the not much has changed other then new Dogfighting games online coming out and a few sorry's from luther ..I'm not really here to bash or point I just think "for me" This game could of been a basic great looking game with less cream filling sim ..i sorta laughed at the time there was lots of bugs but we got new lights in the houses

[Covert_Death]

the point of IL-2 has always been "a cream filled sim"

il-2 just isnt the right series for you if you want quick start dogfights...

[XL5]

Hey guys, I think the real issue here is the fact that 1C decided to release
an "incomplete" game, and they knew it would be a fiasco....
Had they released it , for the first time (!) with the upcomming patch, we would not be having this discussion about code complexity, small tream, big team, optimized or not , big budget or small budget...It is irrelevant , because if any
project is released and sold as a final product but is plegged with bugs and doesn't not play well enough for the majority, will be exposed to the same critisms as CLOD...whatever the budget and resources....
Why did they released it a year before completion knowing it would be a marketing catastrophe ? That is the real question IMHO....

[Volksieg]

the point of IL-2 has always been "a cream filled sim"

il-2 just isnt the right series for you if you want quick start dogfights...

Hear! Hear! I am an absolutely atrocious dogfighter (Though practice makes perfect!)... the sheer satisfaction of keeping my 109 up in the air without trashing the engine is joy enough! That is why I keep coming back to this sim and haven't touched my copy of "Wings of Prey" since.

[HessleReich]

There are always going to be people that dont get on with Sims, My experience with Il2 series has always been golden, true i have had to spend many hours setting the game up and getting all my controls worked out... I even had to wait a year almost till i had a more respectable system to run it on.

Compared to some of the competitors such as the dcs series (which i love) Il2 CLoD has actually been one of the easiest to get to grips with from a cold start. I was playing MP Coop With a friend whithin 24 hours and actually shooting stuff down AND having super awesome dogfights (the trick is to have lots of enemies and they seam to attack the player more).

Yes it may be broken in places but there is usually a reason or fix and you work around it... well some of us do, I had ctd issue loads and loads... Had to test 10 diff gfx settings (changed to DX9). and you know what havent had one in 2 weeks.

Anyways i wanted to say it is an awesome sim and d*** the producers for pushing it out and putting the devs in this situation. Dont release anything till its ready.

[Flanker35M]

S!

If you remember those old updates before IL2 CoD was released and Oleg was still in the team h said that IL-2 COD does NOT use complex computations for AI or anything else outside a range from player AC. What the range is hard to tell, but sometimes when you approach a formation there is a slight stutter which COULD possily indicate more complex things taken in account. But this is only my guess as Oleg's message was that the calculations for objects outside vicinity of player were barely calculate if at all.

[Chivas]

Hey guys, I think the real issue here is the fact that 1C decided to release
an "incomplete" game, and they knew it would be a fiasco....
Had they released it , for the first time (!) with the upcomming patch, we would not be having this discussion about code complexity, small tream, big team, optimized or not , big budget or small budget...It is irrelevant , because if any
project is released and sold as a final product but is plegged with bugs and doesn't not play well enough for the majority, will be exposed to the same critisms as CLOD...whatever the budget and resources....
Why did they released it a year before completion knowing it would be a marketing catastrophe ? That is the real question IMHO....

The answer to that question is the easiest by far. The investors were no longer willing to keep funding the project. If they hadn't released what was done, to that point, the development would have shut down. Which would you rather have an unfinished sim with a decent chance it will be finished, or no sim at all. Luckily the developers past reputation for delivering a quality product spurred enough sales to give investors the confidence to continue supporting the sim.