Grafics question

[ParaB]

Has there been any indication that the ugly "blocky terrain square" (the area of detailed textures) that is very noticeable at higher altitudes will be fixed, or is planned to be fixed at some point? After a long-ish break I played a couple of hours yesterday and today and while I really like the improvements done to the sim so far this struck me as a rather obvious shortcoming.

[hc_wolf]

They are re-building the graphics engine for this game from the groud up. It is taking some time as expected. When the patch is released many if not all graphic issues will be fixed.

[Jatta Raso]

there are still some problems, but landscape is leaps and bounds better than vanilla; before all sorts of blocks were everywhere, where did you sighted yours?

some ATI/AMD cards have some issues that Nvidia doesn't, but i have Nvidia and it's still not perfect, graphics engine issue; a patch dealing with this to the core is imminent or so we were led to believe, hang on for the next couple weeks and it may be sorted out..

[speculum jockey]

The Devs have said that current graphical issues should no longer be an . . . issue as the Graphics Engine re-write will be from the ground up, so other than looking the same, it should not have the same problems this has. They've also said that they are working with both AMD/ATI and Nvidia, so one card shouldn't really have an edge over the other with regards to graphical issues.

Sit tight and hopefully the new graphics engine and patch will be out in another two weeks.

[ParaB]

Thanks for the info.

BTW what I meant was the large square that depicted the area wherein detailed textures are shown, it's very much visible from higher altitudes.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/clod_square.jpg

[SQB]

The distance at which this texture kicks in is designated by the "land detail" setting in the options menu. If this is maxed out I'm not sure what more you can do, perhaps you could increase it further in some file?

[335th_GRAthos]

Has there been any indication that the ugly "blocky terrain square" (the area of detailed textures) that is very noticeable at higher altitudes will be fixed, or is planned to be fixed at some point? After a long-ish break I played a couple of hours yesterday and today and while I really like the improvements done to the sim so far this struck me as a rather obvious shortcoming.

I think there is a missunderstanding ParaB,

The "ugly "blocky terrain square"" is there because your hardware (and mine and everybody elses) is not able to handle more of it.

So, if you want to complain, complain to ATI and NVIDIA for not having GPUs strong enough to handle more graphics...

Of course, working sli /crossfire would help...

~S~

[Sutts]

Yes, I think we'll just have to live with that one until hardware improves and we can expand the viewing distance.

Probably a lot of effort to feather that hard edge in a random way to make the square disappear.

[Anders_And]

NOt true!! Most flightsims have this little feature. However at least they could change the colour of the blurry terrain as its alot more yellowish than detailed terrain and therefor very noticeable.. I say keep it to make the game run better bit at least make it greener in its colour!

[ParaB]

I think there is a missunderstanding ParaB,

The "ugly "blocky terrain square"" is there because your hardware (and mine and everybody elses) is not able to handle more of it.

So, if you want to complain, complain to ATI and NVIDIA for not having GPUs strong enough to handle more graphics...

Of course, working sli /crossfire would help...

~S~

Errr, no. CloD is not the only flightsim I play but it's the only one where the transition between terrain texture levels is so striking. The problem is not ATI/NVIDIA not providing more powerful hardware but the developers not adjusting the texture colours between high and low detail better. Also the more usual "ring" around the PoV would probably be more pleasant to the eye than the square we see now.

@Esso: No. I tested it and increased the battle map size to cover the whole map and still see the texture square.


Anyway, I'll wait for the patch and hope for the best.

[Sutts]

Errr, no. CloD is not the only flightsim I play but it's the only one where the transition between terrain texture levels is so striking. The problem is not ATI/NVIDIA not providing more powerful hardware but the developers not adjusting the texture colours between high and low detail better. Also the more usual "ring" around the PoV would probably be more pleasant to the eye than the square we see now.

@Esso: No. I tested it and increased the battle map size to cover the whole map and still see the texture square.


Anyway, I'll wait for the patch and hope for the best.


I'd suggest that's because no other sim gives us the viewing distance we have in CloD. Most cheat and fog out the distant views so you don't get a chance to see the transition area.

[ParaB]

I really don't want to start yet another "CloD vs X" argument but I don't see such a square in FSX, DCS:A-10 or RoF. And I would rather see some haze effect in the distance than the current texture square. Yesterday I created a mission at 8.000m altitude and the visual effect of the sharp edges of the square in the distance really distracted from the overall very beautiful look of the sim.

[5./JG27.Farber]

ParaB please post a screen shot of your settings. Im sure there are three for ground. Texture, shading and another?

[ParaB]

Hi Farber,

my settings are:

everything high (textures set to original), except forests and buildings detail set to low. If there's a way to get rid of the terrain square or make it less obtrusive I'd be really thankful.

I'm using FXAA injector for FSAA and some colour adjustments and am very happy with the way CloD looks otherwise. And no, switching FXAA off doesn't change the anything about 'the square'.

View from 7.000m:

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/blocky_terrain02.jpg

[mxmadman]

You won't be able to change it, this is there as a way to help performance. Its a lower quality texture that's used in places were not meant to go.

The reason you notice it is because it doesn't blend well. This would be extremely difficult and possibly impossible to blend to a point where you can't tell due to the size of the area. You will notice it a certain altitute no matter what.

This is better than the alternative and happens because we have a MASSIVE view distance in game, but not computers that can handle equally massive and high quality terrain.

[ParaB]

So, it's working as intended, will not get fixed because that's the way it is?

Why would it be impossible to better blend the low-res far textures with the hi-res near textures?

There is already a LoD system in place for the textures if you watch the pic closely: there's hi-res textures close by, then lower-res textures at medium distance followed by low-res textures in the far distance. The close and medium range textures blend well together, only the far ones don't.

[mxmadman]

So, it's working as intended, will not get fixed because that's the way it is?

Why would it be impossible to better blend the low-res far textures with the hi-res near textures?

There is already a LoD system in place for the textures if you watch the pic closely: there's hi-res textures close by, then lower-res textures at medium distance followed by low-res textures in the far distance. The close and medium range textures blend well together, only the far ones don't.

Well there is LoD, yes, but these areas are not created at all like the normal playing surface. If you fly out there at really low alt you'll see what I mean.

I don't think they're going to change any time in the foreseeable future, no.

[ParaB]

You misunderstood the problem. I'm not talking about an area outside of the actual map. I'm talking about the radius around your aircraft where textures of different resolutions, and unfortunately, different colours are used. You can never "fly out there" since your viewpoint will always be in the middle of the "square".

[mxmadman]

You misunderstood the problem. I'm not talking about an area outside of the actual map. I'm talking about the radius around your aircraft where textures of different resolutions, and unfortunately, different colours are used. You can never "fly out there" since your viewpoint will always be in the middle of the "square".

Have you tried? I've flown over it before. LoD only changes the resolution of the mesh and stuff, but they still use the same textures normally just scaled down. This generally will not cause a noticable difference in color.

At any rate, if your eyes are indeed good enough to spot the differences at any time other than when that transition is taking place then its out of my league. It still will not be something that is changed though.

You're sure you're not looking at the yellow-ness far inland that looks as though its a fall version of England butted up against a summer version?

Edit: or france.

Another edit: there's an easy way to test. Start a mission and pick a landmark like a lake or river at the edge of what you're referring to and fly directly towards or away from it. There will be a point where it will suddenly switch over to a higher or lower resolution. There are a finite amount of LoD's, so it should be obvious. If you get closer and the color stays the same at that landmark, there are no LoD meshes for that area.

[ParaB]

You really don't seem to understand. :grin:

You will get the low res textures directly over London if you're far enough away. It's the distance from the point of view that matters, not the location. The grafics engine draws a "square" around your viepoint. Within that square all ground textures are high res. At a larger distance they become medium res, and even further out they become low-res. I really don't know how to better explain it.

My problem is that the texture colours between medium LoD and low LoD are quite different, resulting in the ugly "square" effect.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/blocky_terrain02b.jpg

[mxmadman]

No, I definitely understand basic LoD function, but the problem comes when an area only has one available lod, thus not allowing any transition. This is why is suggest flying towards it, thus reducing the distance, to trigger the transition.

No transition = no lod.

At any rate, no it will not change. Each lod is literally another terrain texture, and as stated before it is a finite number. They could add in more, stretch the area that has many lod levels, etc. This would reduce the obviousness of it and require a ton of work.

Don't count on it.

P.s. fly over the area you define as 'low texture'. On my installation there is only one texture and I'm able to literally fly directly over or land on it, and no change is resolution.

[ParaB]

As I fly towards the lower resolution textures, they change into higher resolution ones. Which also doesn't look very good because of the abruptness of the process. Because it's a LoD issue. If I start West of London watching East then the London textures will be displayed in low res in the distance. As the point of view gets closer to London the textures will then change to higher res.

My gripe is with the lowest LoD of the terrain textures being a noticeable different colour tone as the medium and high resolution textures, which results in the ugly square and the abrupt LoD changes. Since the transition between medium and high res textures are pretty smooth I find it difficult to believe that the same couldn't be done for the transition between medium and low res textures.

If you don't notice the texture LoDs in your CloD then either my version of the game or your eyesight probably needs a fix. ;)

Anyway, we'll see what happens with futures patches.

[335th_GRAthos]

My problem is that the texture colours between medium LoD and low LoD are quite different, resulting in the ugly "square" effect.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll92/Para_Bellum/blocky_terrain02b.jpg

Nice drawing ParaB,
I understand your point much better now.

For me personally, it is annoying that the view lines create a "square" instead of a "circle". It is against logic and it hurts the eye.

But the most annoying thing for me is less the "square" but the transition as the plane moves on. The transition does not seem to be smooth but moves in jumps thus making it annoying.

~S~

[Flanker35M]

S!

This what ParaB's pic shows is maybe on reason why some games use haze, to cover the transition a bit better. Of course this can be debated forth and back if it is feasible or realistic, but let's hope the patch will fix or better this "square phenomenon".