Spitfire Mk. I tutorial movie by me

[Freycinet]

[Posted in here, in the main forum, for a few days, with the permission of DooLittleRaider]

Hi all,

I put up a new movie, and this time it is a bit more useful than the fun vids I've made so far. It is my best attempt at a Spitfire Mk. I Tutorial movie.

Find the movie on my web site: www.flightsimvids.com (http://www.flightsimvids.com)
http://www.flightsimvids.com/Spitfire.Mk.I.Tutorial.500px.jpg (http://www.flightsimvids.com)

There is a LOT more work to making a tutorial video than to my usual vids for pure amusement, so I hope you will appreciate the effort! (Even if perhaps not the result...)

If you haven't enjoyed the superb fun that is flying with Complex Engine Management in Il-2 CoD maybe now is the time!

- The Spitfire modelled in CoD really gives a tremendous feeling of raw power wrapped inside a beautiful, streamlined aeroplane. When you master it (I'm still not quite there) you will have a great feeling of the sky belonging to you, zooming around effortlessly at the flick of a wrist and the slight push of a lever. There is heft and inertia to the plane, and it can be quite daunting to take it up, but it DOES help that one's behind is not on the line, and that the hierarchy won't have that behind served on a platter if you muck up...

I can only imagine the excitement and fear that must have gripped young recruits back then, 70-odd years ago, when they first walked out to a parked Spitfire before taking her up. Actually, I can imagine it much better now that I have flown it in CoD.

Big thanks go to 2GvSAP_Flea, who helped me a lot with the video, and whose super-impressive "Il-2 CoD Aircraft Operations Checklist" (http://http://www.flightsimvids.com/op2gvsapinst_3710.1b.pdf.zip) can be found on my web site as well. Also thanks to jf1981 (1C forums), whose comments and quick guide helped a lot too. I made my own quick guide (partly based on Flea's pdf and jf1981's document) and linked it at the web site too (http://www.flightsimvids.com/Il-2.Cliffs.of.Dover.Spitfire.Mk.I.Quick.Guide.by.Soe ren.Dalsgaard.txt), for those who want to just jump into the Spit and get her into the air. And maybe even land...

Pls comment if you think I should correct some things in the movie, or well, if you just feel like it...

Bf-109E with manual pitch is up next. - IF YOU CAN HELP ME WITH A QUICK GUIDE PLS GO HERE:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=388047#post388047

[Kupsised]

This is brilliant, been flying CEM from day one but there's always things you can learn, but I've never bothered doing things like fiddling with the gunsight etc. so that was extremely helpful.

Just one thing though, more as a point of interest rather than correction (just a different way of doing things I suppose!) is that when I try to exit a spin I do all the things you did, except I also put ailerons out of the spin - i.e. opposite to the rudder (so if your left foot goes down, stick goes to the right... I think :P ). I don't know if it helps much, since you seemed to get out of the spin just as quick as I do, maybe even slightly quicker, but I read that as a recommendation some time back and it's always worked. Maybe it was meant for modern props rather than a Mk.I Spit though.

Still, keep up the great work! I always make a point of watching these just to learn something new or see how someone else does things, so even as someone with relative experience with CEM these kinds of videos are still brilliant to watch and much appreciated.

[bolox]

well SD codes are 501 sqn who flew hurri's through '40- but that would be nit picking:-P

as usual good stuff

[Freycinet]

SD are also my initials... :D

[Freycinet]

when I try to exit a spin I do all the things you did, except I also put ailerons out of the spin - i.e. opposite to the rudder (so if your left foot goes down, stick goes to the right... I think :P ). I don't know if it helps much, since you seemed to get out of the spin just as quick as I do, maybe even slightly quicker, but I read that as a recommendation some time back and it's always worked.

This is very interesting and a good point. If my technique isn't really the right one, then it should be corrected!

- Can anybody else chip in?

[Nepe_EAF51]

Well, the standard out of spin procedure is:

P...Power- idle
A...Aileron-neutral
R...Rudder-opposite rotation
E...Elevator-forward to break the stalled condition
All this is done simultaneously.

PARE being the mnemonic.


Nice video, thank you Freycinet. I would have added trim usage (especially in that climb to hold 160 mph) and more attention to the ball. All in all, a great help, thx for your work.

[Kupsised]

This is very interesting and a good point. If my technique isn't really the right one, then it should be corrected!

- Can anybody else chip in?

Just did some quick tests (scientifically, both ways three times each) to get an average time on how long it took to recover from a self-induced spin (I put the throttle to idol, rudder hard over to the right, ailerons to the left and pulled back on the stick to induce the spin).

My way average recovery after three attempts was 9.83 seconds with the lowest being 9 seconds dead, middle was 9.7 and the highest was 10.8

Your way the average was 5.73 seconds, the lowest being 4.8, then 6.2 and 6.3.

Obviously there are too many variables to say that all 6 times were exactly the same spin, I tried to leave it spinning for around four seconds before trying to recover, but that probably wasn't pinpoint accurate at least. Either way, it'd seem your way is substantially quicker enough to say that, variables aside, it is probably still the quicker way considering how much quicker it was in the tests.

It would seem, then, scientifically (ish :P ) that your way is the better way, by about one third. Again, that's why these videos are so useful, you're always learning something new!

EDIT: And Nepe essentially confirms that, so I'll go with that way from now on. Thanks both!

[Freycinet]

Well, the standard out of spin procedure is:

P...Power- idle
A...Aileron-neutral
R...Rudder-opposite rotation
E...Elevator-forward to break the stalled condition
All this is done simultaneously.

PARE being the mnemonic.


Nice video, thank you Freycinet. I would have added trim usage (especially in that climb to hold 160 mph) and more attention to the ball. All in all, a great help, thx for your work.

Rudder opposite rotation? - Hmm... I seem to remember that it should be into the rotation for the Spit.

I thought about setting the trim in the video too, but decided against it. This vid is meant as a VERY basic tutorial, so I had to cut out some things (also setting the compass). But maybe I should have left in trim settings instead of the gunsight settings... Oh well.

I do notice that I fly a bit out of trim. Well spotted!

[Freycinet]

EDIT: And Nepe essentially confirms that, so I'll go with that way from now on. Thanks both!

Well, no. He says it should be rudder OPPOSITE rotation.

But thanks for testing. So, pretty convincing proof that rudder INTO rotation is faster.

Would very much like to know what official doc's say...

[Freycinet]

BTW, I seem to remember that I read rudder into spin in some official text, but now I can't recall the reference..

[robtek]

I learned in flight school that the rudder is used counter spin wise to stop the turning.
My tests in CoD confirmed that for me.

For the ailerons, in a spin there is no airflow over them because the plane is stalled.

Usually the rudder is the only working control in a spin, the elevators really start working when the spin is stopped and last the ailerons start to function when the plane is out of the stall

[Kupsised]

Ah, I think when I was doing it I had to put rudder in the opposite direction, that is, if I put the rudder right to put me in to the spin, I had to put it left to get me out of it. If I kept it right it never even started to recover before I hit the ground starting from fairly high up (whatever the altitude of the first default quick mission is, the free flight out over the sea). I'm not sure if that's what you mean by turning in to it? Since as I said, putting the rudder right if right rudder induced the spin doesn't have any effect at all for me. The way I just described it (rudder opposite to the direction that started the spin) has exactly the same effect that it had when you did it in the video, meaning the plane spins a bit more, but slower, then comes out quite quickly, the nose gives a little bob and the tail flicks a bit and then you can pull out, so perhaps that is what you were doing too? The other way just causes it to spin faster and the tail to buck around a bit but never shows any sign of recovery before, as I said, I ended up in the sea.

[ivo]

thank Freycinet it is very good thank a lot :):):)

Bye Ivo.

[2GFlea]

Here a copy/paste out of a Spitfire MkII manual...

8546

So it looks like the "official" Air Ministry way is opposite rudder. Sorry, I missed that Frey.

[bongodriver]

Ailerons can be quite significant to spin recovery, behaviour varies with aircraft but neutral aileron is the recommendation in all cases.

[Freycinet]

I actually now think that I applied opposite rudder in the movie. I have amended it to reflect that...

[Freycinet]

Says the same here:
http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit2.html

Luckily I could correct it pretty easily in my video. Thanks for pointing out my brain-fart guys!

[robtek]

Ailerons can be quite significant to spin recovery, behaviour varies with aircraft but neutral aileron is the recommendation in all cases.

My bad, for initial recovery, afaik, everything neutral except the rudder which is used counterrotationwise.

Some crates need quite a lot additional input, like extending flaps, releasing tip tanks or extending the gear.

[Freycinet]

Here a copy/paste out of a Spitfire MkII manual...

8546

So it looks like the "official" Air Ministry way is opposite rudder. Sorry, I missed that Frey.

From the proverbial horse's mouth. Thanks!

[Tvrdi]

Very nice Freycinet. Thank you. Will you do that for the 109 too?

[Freycinet]

Tvrdi, I'd love that but I would need help on the "right way" to fly it. not just "what works" but what is correct according to original manuals. Then I'll happily make the "simplified" CoD version into a movie. Could you help out? I know you are a big expert on the 109!

A list of proper start up settings, take-off speed, climb speed, spin recovery technique and landing settings would be great. Something similar to this one, which I made in connection with this Spit vid: http://flightsimvids.com/Il-2.Cliffs.of.Dover.Spitfire.Mk.I.Quick.Guide.by.Soe ren.Dalsgaard.txt

I'll thank you profusely in the video if you help me out! - And even forget your mobbing of the poor developers... ;)

Or if somebody else want to help out... - I'd love to do the 109E, especially the manual pitch version.

[bolox]

well if SD is your initials i'll let you off:grin: should have spotted that:-)

if you want to do a 109 version i've got the RAF version of 109e notes- the view of a 'non user' i find rather interesting , usually;)- but that might be another topic entirely:grin:

[dflion]

A very good Spitfire tutorial, especially for any newbies. I hope Ilya and the team are checking it out, this is the way to go for any new aircraft in the sim or sequel.

I am still waiting for my new rig to be finished (new video card holding things up?) This vid has helped me in my ' game withdrawal symptoms'.

DFLion

[Freycinet]

Thanks for your replies!

Bf-109E with manual pitch is up next. - IF YOU CAN HELP ME WITH A QUICK GUIDE PLS GO HERE:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=388047#post388047

[Tvrdi]

...even forget your mobbing of the poor developers...
You couldnt resist....you call it mobbing I call it being vocal about things which are (were) very wrong...facts about most of us agree....

Thanks for your replies!

Bf-109E with manual pitch is up next. - IF YOU CAN HELP ME WITH A QUICK GUIDE PLS GO HERE:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?p=388047#post388047

I did....check it out....you will be happy....

[furbs]

Well...a very well made video Frey. :grin: impressed alot by that.

[Freycinet]

Thanks!

[jf1981]

Nice thanks.

BTW rudder oposite; however ailerons with.

In your case (right spin) this means rudder fully left, ailerons fully right. The latter tends to help to regain speed hence fall into the vertical axis while giving opopsite ailerons tend to flatten the spin hence make situation worse.

That's obviously aircraft dependent while it semes often the "ailerons to neutral" is mentionned, personnally I push them fully into spin.

It could be possible to test this and see any difference with ailerons with or opposite. There may be one into this game, not yet tried.

[Kupsised]

Nice thanks.

BTW rudder oposite; however ailerons with.

In your case (right spin) this means rudder fully left, ailerons fully right. The latter tends to help to regain speed hence fall into the vertical axis while giving opopsite ailerons tend to flatten the spin hence make situation worse.

That's obviously aircraft dependent while it semes often the "ailerons to neutral" is mentionned, personnally I push them fully into spin.

It could be possible to test this and see any difference with ailerons with or opposite. There may be one into this game, not yet tried.

Already done that, check the first page ;) I did a whole test to see which was faster, since I'd heard the same as you, but it turns out ailerons neutral gets you out of the spin almost twice as quick as ailerons into the spin. I did it fairly scientifically too, it's all on the first page

EDIT: Here's the post again to save you trawling through. When I say 'Your way' I mean neutral ailerons, 'My way' is ailerons in to the spin:

Just did some quick tests (scientifically, both ways three times each) to get an average time on how long it took to recover from a self-induced spin (I put the throttle to idol, rudder hard over to the right, ailerons to the left and pulled back on the stick to induce the spin).

My way average recovery after three attempts was 9.83 seconds with the lowest being 9 seconds dead, middle was 9.7 and the highest was 10.8

Your way the average was 5.73 seconds, the lowest being 4.8, then 6.2 and 6.3.

Obviously there are too many variables to say that all 6 times were exactly the same spin, I tried to leave it spinning for around four seconds before trying to recover, but that probably wasn't pinpoint accurate at least. Either way, it'd seem your way is substantially quicker enough to say that, variables aside, it is probably still the quicker way considering how much quicker it was in the tests.

It would seem, then, scientifically (ish :P ) that your way is the better way, by about one third. Again, that's why these videos are so useful, you're always learning something new!

EDIT: And Nepe essentially confirms that, so I'll go with that way from now on. Thanks both!

[Ataros]

Excellent tutorial! A must see for any newcomer!

I assume this thread will be moved to the Gameplay Questions section, won't it?
May I suggest renaming the Gameplay Questions section to "Flight School" section with description like: CEM, ACM, gunnery, tactics, tips, etc.
The issue I see now is CEM threads are split between Gameplay, Multiplayer and Controls sections. Gunsight, loadout, convergence, bombing threads are split between Gameplay, Multiplayer and FM/DM sections. Video tutorials are posted in Movies section.

This makes life of newcomers extremely difficult.

Controls section perhaps may be renamed to "Joysticks and other peripherals" to make it clear for newcomers that it is not about CEM or cockpit instruments (e.g. about navigation).

Sample of a Flight School section http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sukhoi.ru%2Fforum%2Fforumdispla y.php%3Ff%3D224

Anyone feels the above can be reasonable?

[Stiboo]

Just to add my thanks to those made already..

I've really enjoyed all your vids...and they all make me smile and laugh!

I'm one of the many ( I think..!) who never bother with CEM and I do not have Trackir so use the HUD view... of course I spend most of my time in the FMB...that's my excuse...


I will be watching this vid over and over and try to convert myself to CEM..

Keep up the superb work mate


Cheers

Simon

[Freycinet]

You're welcome! - It was a heck of a lot of work, so the thanks are much appreciated.

What do you spend your time in the FMB with? - Any cool missions you'd like to share? :)

CEM is daunting at first, but very rewarding indeed. Feels like a real accomplishment to get well through a flight. I also learnt a lot, which is always interesting. Never cared too much about all things engine-related, but now I have a new appreciation for that aspect.

[Freycinet]

Ah, just had a look at your web site, interesting!

Are you ready to delve into all the script complexity? - It seems that you have so many more possibilities than with the old Il-2 classic FMB. Scripts and triggers...

[Stiboo]

Well...


Yes - working on a campaign for 43 Sqn RAF... but very slow work!

I've made about 5 missions so far, and other than that just playing with FMB features, looking at scripts and trying to work things out..

Only just worked out how to make a campaign that saves where you finish so when you re-start another day you can carry on from where you left off..

Now i'm looking at how to make music/sound files work in the mission briefings - so I can have music or newsreel recordings or Churchill speechs.. I can make this work for single missions but not for campaigns - it's to do with single missions being stored in one folder while campaigns are stored in the Steam folder..arrgghh !

But we will get there..

Also need to update website..i've been waiting for the next big COD patch, but a long wait!

Cheers

Simon

.

[Sutts]

Nice tutorial Freycinet, thanks for your efforts.

Just a small comment on shut down procedures, although it makes no difference at all in the game.

The official way to shut down was to:

"Run the engine slowly for about a minute before or after turning OFF fuel cocks. Pull out the slow running cut-out and hold until the engine stops, then switch off" (magnetos)

The problem in-game is that turning off the fuel cock kills the engine instantaneously when in reality there would be plenty of fuel left in the lines to keep it running while you use the slow running cut-out. Anyhow, killing the engine with the magneto switches was a no-no for some reason.

[Flanker35M]

S!

If you kill the engine with magnetos only it can cause fire etc. as the engine is still hot. By removing the burning substance aka fuel before cutting magnetos removes this risk a great deal.

[Sutts]

S!

If you kill the engine with magnetos only it can cause fire etc. as the engine is still hot. By removing the burning substance aka fuel before cutting magnetos removes this risk a great deal.


Ahhh, thanks Flanker.

[Geronimo989]

Great video! I hope you do one like this for each flyable plane in the game.

[Freycinet]

Thanks Sutts and flanker, I frankly didn't think too much about this, but I'll remember (I hope) for my next movie to follow the correct procedures better.

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

I agree with everyone else,this is a top vid Freycinet,well done old boy.

[Jughead Jones]

Very cool vid's. Thank you for putting the time in. S! :grin:

[pupo162]

10/10 for the video. another great job!

i will just comment, that his video shows probably the worst thing about COD graphics at the moment, being that, the terrain looks like it was painted with crayons under certain lighning circunstances.

[jf1981]

Already done that, check the first page ;) I did a whole test to see which was faster, since I'd heard the same as you, but it turns out ailerons neutral gets you out of the spin almost twice as quick as ailerons into the spin. I did it fairly scientifically too, it's all on the first page

EDIT: Here's the post again to save you trawling through. When I say 'Your way' I mean neutral ailerons, 'My way' is ailerons in to the spin:




Hi Kupsised

I have tried both right and left spins with ailerons against, neutral, with, all the results are quite similar. Out of spin within some 2 turns. It 'seems' that ailerons against makes things worse.

The spin is very much aircraft dependent and for spit, if ailerons have very few effect at low speed, they can be considered non effective at all.

For other aircrafts such as light aerobatic a/c I have read that ailerons 'against' tend to transform the spin into a flat spin and vice versa (from flat spin to spiraling with ailerons into the turn).

The flat spin is worse but it seems that the spitfire cannot do it as modeled now. And BTW we'll have soon or later an aerobatic ac into the game hence we'll be able to check that with this one hopefully.

See you.

[Kupsised]

Hi Kupsised

I have tried both right and left spins with ailerons against, neutral, with, all the results are quite similar. Out of spin within some 2 turns. It 'seems' that ailerons against makes things worse.

The spin is very much aircraft dependent and for spit, if ailerons have very few effect at low speed, they can be considered non effective at all.

For other aircrafts such as light aerobatic a/c I have read that ailerons 'against' tend to transform the spin into a flat spin and vice versa (from flat spin to spiraling with ailerons into the turn).

The flat spin is worse but it seems that the spitfire cannot do it as modeled now. And BTW we'll have soon or later an aerobatic ac into the game hence we'll be able to check that with this one hopefully.

See you.

Thanks for the reply! I don't really have much experience or knowledge regarding aerobatics, so that certainly would be interesting. Otherwise with the spit, I found that ailerons neutral got me out of the spin around 2 seconds quicker than any other way, although that might have just been luck as to how the spin was going, but I'll keep that way as for me two seconds could be the difference between smashing into the ground and pulling out with room to spare. You're right though, there was no way to change the spin into a flat spin, it either spun faster or came out.

Perhaps it was just luck that I got out quicker if you experienced no change, but then I suppose that that goes with what I originally said, that there was no way in my test to ensure that each spin was exactly the same and it may have just ended up that the ones where I tried aileron neutral were just easier to get out of, even though I entered each spin in exactly the same way there's no way to replicate the same spin exactly six times over.

Either way, call it superstitious, but now that way worked for me once I'll keep doing it until it stops working :P

Cheers!

[mazex]

Awesome video - as usual ;)

Really nice for new pilots and I would love if MG added videos like this as tutorials in-game for all planes in the future!

[jf1981]

[...] Perhaps it was just luck that I got out quicker if you experienced no change [...]Cheers!

Superstitious ;) yes I assume that's playing an important role too ...

After enering the spin I have let it be for some time until it was stabilyzed. If you tried exiting in the first turns, there is a very random behaviour of the plane right after it enters the spin for like 3 or 4 turns.

I have let this first time happening and then only made it out. Maybe that's the difference ?

[LcSummers]

Hi Freycinet,

you always surprise me with your cool vids. As i wrote earlier, i like them.:grin:

And for sure there is always you learn something new.


LC :-P