Waves too big

[Foo'bar]

Is it just me or seem the waves too big? I was flying at about 150 metres high and the freighters look like toy ships on a pond.

Looking over my right wing to the sea I could believe that I'm just 20 metres high.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the look of the waves very much, it's looking really fantastic. I just think that the waves texture has to be scaled down about 5 times smaller to make the look perfect.

What dou you think folks?

Just as an example I've added some images wich should pretty much represent the same weather/wave conditions wich we have in CloD atm. See the difference between the scale of the waves compared to the ship's size:

http://www.senatspressestelle.bremen.de/bilder/090407_Schiff_von_oben_k.jpg
http://www.internnett.de/files/ras.jpg

[Dano]

I absolutely agree :)

[Foo'bar]

Watch the following experiment:

For better understanding what I mean I did a quick photoshopping. As I'm not able to scale the wave's texture down properly I've pasted a ship into the image and scaled it up so that its size perfectly fits to the size of the waves - at least in my eyes.

Note the difference sizes of the pasted ship compared to the original ingame ship. It's about 5 times bigger.

I really would like to hear your opinions.

[Tavingon]

I wish the waves were bigger, I want to see them smash down on the beaches of Dover

[_79_dev]

I am not sure if that's the waves size but it may be the answer to the question that I have from beginning of this game: why if I am low over the water I have a feeling that I am kind of too high and if I am right over the water like 5-10 meters I can't get rid of that feeling?

[_79_dev]

For some reason perception of flying right over water was much better in 46 even if it was kind of flat...

[hiro]

cheesehawk beat me to it:


Surf's up.


I'd wait till the game can run smoothly on a monster machine w/out the issue's we're having before worrying about the surf.

[Ailantd]

I also think that waves are too big, and commented about that several times. I also think waves move too fast.

[trumps]

I sort of go the other way, I spend a good deal of my time in a 110 at deck height of the freighters, I don't know if it is due to the representation of speed, but to me there needs to be more of a swell running! Apart from the visual representation of water movement horizontally, there seems to be no rise and fall to it! This could very well just be due to the limitations of our hardware and if so fair enough!

Cheers
Craig

[EZ1]

The waves are too big. The waves, especially along the beach, look much better in IL-2 Classic.

[Tavingon]

Any news if this will be addressed? Personally I now think the waves aren't too bad, I just wish they 'crashed' on the beaches.

[speculum jockey]

Obviously this is a very low priority at this moment, but Foobar's second image in his last post summed it up nicely. Look at the two different ship sizes in that photo. The larger ship v.s. the waves looks just about perfect.

http://i.imgur.com/imrQd.jpg

I'm not a programmer, but wouldn't it be pretty simple to just set the waves textures to 1/2 scale and the same with whatever programming generates the waves?

waves.ini

waves enabled = 1 (value)
wave scale = 50 (percent)
wave speed = 75 (percent)
waves detail level = 5 (value)
wave nitpicking = 1 (value)

[pupo162]

well, water was one of the things that is a placeholder supposedly. so we should just wait i guess.

[Feathered_IV]

I've always thought the clod water to be a rather over scale. Thankfully the waves aren't in fast-forward mode anymore though. Not sure if the devs would compress the detail much more however, as five times more detail onscreen might mean 5x more resources to run it.

[sorak]

seems like almost everything in the whole entire game was/is a place holder

[SEE]

Its weird how the players notice things completely different to the casual on looker. My wife walked past (normally she isn't the slightest bit interested!) and said "the waves are wrong!" I looked at her and asked what was wrong about the waves..she said the waves were coming inshore at a 90 degree angle to the beach (on the particualr section of coast I was over!) :grin:

[5./JG27.Farber]

It can get pretty choppy in the North Sea. I have been on it a few times so I can talk from experience. What we need here is a Geography master. Surely it depends on high or low tide on the coast lines, prevailing wind direction and speed.

Maybe its because the dynamic weather isnt fully working?

[major_setback]

[Posted earlier]

The waves look very unrealistic from high up. They should not be visible. They make the cliffs look much too small and as they are a crucial indication of the scale of objects they also give a wrong impression of altitude.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Clipboardvbv5z.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/3609715872_3153882508_oz.jpg

[5./JG27.Farber]

[Posted earlier]

The waves look very unrealistic from high up. They should not be visible. They make the cliffs look much too small and as they are a crucial indication of the scale of objects they also give a wrong impression of altitude.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/Clipboardvbv5z.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y129/major-setback/3609715872_3153882508_oz.jpg




Weather conditions!

Im looking at this and the width height is five metres.

http://www.northseaweather.co.uk/


How can you compare a fine day with an image of the game?! Are your weather conditions the same? Thats like comparing a rough day with a calm day and saying its the same place so it should be the same. Your photo is from about 3 times the height and a different angle. Is the in game weather conditions working with the sea yet? Have you ever seen or been on the North sea? You take something as complex as weather and add a photo of a totally different weather front and think "thats how it must be"?

Have you even considered the complexity of it all?

[Skoshi Tiger]

I think the waves are too big which destroys our ability to judge heights.

Some definitions from bom.gov.au

Swell waves are the regular longer period waves generated by distant weather systems. There may be several sets of swell waves travelling in different directions, causing a confused sea state.


If the confused state we're seeing represents swells I'ld expect to see regular lines of swell comming in from the west and down from from the North sea and the confused state where they intersect.


Sea (or wind) waves are generated by the local prevailing wind and vary in size according to the length of time a particular wind has been blowing, the fetch (distance the wind has blown over the sea) and the water depth.


If what we are seeing are "Sea's" they would be accompanied with very high local winds, which are just not there.

I hope what we've got currently are just place holders. We need a realistic representation of both to be realistic.

Why?
First off, to be able to judge our height above the waves for keeping under the radar, and skip bombing etc. at the moment we're fudging it.

Second, we need "sea's" to be able to accuratly judge wind speed and direction when traveling over bodies of water. ( see Beaufort scale - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaufort_scale)

Third, we need swells (well I do more than most ;) ) to be depicted accurately because when your ditching your aircraft judging swell size and direction should play a major part in determining if you ditch successfully and survive the landing or plough in and die. At the moment waves, no matter how big, are just eye candy!


How important is getting this model accurate? At the moment the developers have got their hands full and I expect all the modeling aspects are way down the list. But Hopefully it would be simple to reduce the wave size so that it looks more like a 'average' day.

Cheers!

[5./JG27.Farber]

Yep your proberbly right.

If you actually want to know about beaufort you need to go here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpcAd__qHP0

[Skoshi Tiger]

That was very funny! :)

[major_setback]

Weather conditions!


Your photo is from about 3 times the height and a different angle.

In the pictures I posted before I believe the photo and screenshot are from the same part of the coast. So actually it is the photo that is taken from the nearest viewpoint. Compare the cliff height.


The swell should be smaller.

http://rst.gsfc.nasa.gov/Sect17/021.jpg

In the game it looks more like this - cliffs a few feet high:

http://nbepiphany.co.uk/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85128&g2_serialNumber=1


Even in bad weather the swell is small compared to the height of the cliffs.

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/2f/c5/f3/caption.jpg

[5./JG27.Farber]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39482000/jpg/_39482849_storms_dover_pa_203.jpg
DOVER

Like Tiger said, its proberbly a place holder and is not working with the weather. In the FMB I have not looked into the weather system. Would be interesting to see if it either effects wave height and swell or not...

[Osprey]

We need this kind of swell lol This is Worthing Pier a few years ago, the bloke waited 3 years for the right conditions!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7EO1O0i0jU

And Brighton Pier too....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZE81zEy4uk


How many have crossed the channel with the cars chained to the decks? Those swells are pretty big ;)

[No1 Cheese]

[QUOTE=Osprey;380611]We need this kind of swell lol This is Worthing Pier a few years ago, the bloke waited 3 years for the right conditions!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7EO1O0i0jU

Bloody hell,bet he was cold!!!!!:-P

Cheese

[Foo'bar]

The waves look very unrealistic from high up. They should not be visible. They make the cliffs look much too small and as they are a crucial indication of the scale of objects they also give a wrong impression of altitude.

Exactly what I was trying to say in my first post.

In the pictures I posted before I believe the photo and screenshot are from the same part of the coast. So actually it is the photo that is taken from the nearest viewpoint. Compare the cliff height.


In the game it looks more like this - cliffs a few feet high:

http://nbepiphany.co.uk/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=85128&g2_serialNumber=1

This one demonstrates PERFECTLY the current state.

[5./JG27.Farber]

That is actually the cliffs of Dover, if you look closely you can see in the middle at the base of the cliff where a house has fell in from coastal errosion...

[RPS69]

I don't live nowhere near the channel, but I'am on a region of very strong winds, and the sea on CloD looks like a day with strong winds. Not a stormy one, but strong enough to generate waves and make them show their white crests.

On calm days those crests only show near the shore, never on high waters.

Maybe the normal weather set on CloD is of strong winds, but I have made a landing on that conditions on a small plane, and it was a hell of an experience. Wind that generates that amount of white crest, made take off and landing a tough experience. It is not like that in game with our vivid water, with almost storm like waves.

[PotNoodles]

I kept on thinking something was wrong that made me feel like I wasn't flying high altitude and now I see it's the waves that are far to big. That defiantly needs looking at because it also makes the cliffs look small. The other thing that really bugs me is how they have placed the houses so close to the sea, I just hope the owners have got flood insurance.

[McFeckit]

I agree, the wave crests must be huge compared to ships and planes. I can see individual crests from 12000 feet but can't spot a formation of bombers a couple of thousand feet below.

In fact, the inability to spot planes Is the single most annoying thing for me.

Oh well....

[_YoYo_]

Oh, no. Please dont change it. I like waves from CoD.

[Katana1000S]

I think we are nit picking now :)

Seriously, bought CLOD on day one and still this sim has the best looking, most realistic water or sea in any flight sim to date IMHO.

[PotNoodles]

I think we are nit picking now :)

Seriously, bought CLOD on day one and still this sim has the best looking, most realistic water or sea in any flight sim to date IMHO.

Nobody is nit picking and nobody is saying that the water isn't the best looking. They are saying the waves are to big and it makes the altitude look wrong. Think of a road and now place a toy car in the middle of the road...Now do you see what they mean? The road won't change if you shrink the road to make the toy car look realistic. Nobody is on about changing the waves, they are on about shrinking them. This would then make the cliffs look as large as they are suppose to and the ships look the right size. I'm sure if they change it you will like it a lot better.

[Katana1000S]

They have probably got bigger fish to fry first though (from any sea) than that :)

Seriously, if this was such a show stopper it would have been mentioned earlier in the games history, the fact that it has not ... and I'm sure someone will jump in and say it was, means that other areas of the sim are improved so much that we now look at at such nit picking stuff as wave size.

Seriously guys.

I'm still not sure if this thread is a joke or not though?

[Katana1000S]

Nobody is nit picking and nobody is saying that the water isn't the best looking. They are saying the waves are to big and it makes the altitude look wrong.

So, you are saying you could be in a furball, almost got your nail on the Hurri or ME-109 and all of a sudden the wave hight caught your attention and threw you off the perfect kill :)

[PotNoodles]

So, you are saying you could be in a furball, almost got your nail on the Hurri or ME-109 and all of a sudden the wave hight caught your attention and threw you off the perfect kill :)

I am saying if you want a good sim then you should aim to get everything in perspective. The short answer to you question is Yes, simply because I always feel I am flying to low when I'm over water even though I am not. Whats strange is that you should argue over something that would make the game not only play better but also look better.

[McFeckit]

It is a humorous nit pick, but it does highlight the in-proportional sense of scale. Ships should not be dots, planes should not be pretty much invisible, and I should've gone to spec-savers!

[Katana1000S]

It is a humorous nit pick, but it does highlight the in-proportional sense of scale. Ships should not be dots, planes should not be pretty much invisible, and I should've gone to spec-savers!

God help us if they modelled Tsunamis!

[PotNoodles]

God help us if they modelled Tsunamis!

Do you play this game on that spec computer?

[Katana1000S]

simply because I always feel I am flying to low when I'm over water even though I am not.

Look mate, real pilots had that feeling too, it might seem obvious, but the WW2 answer is, fly higher, flying higher has two good attributes, you crash less and stay alive longer and also fight the enemy longer, to be bluntly honest, lingering longer over the sea commenting on wave heights in the sim is Tree stuff.

Its getting old.

[PotNoodles]

Look mate, real pilots had that feeling too, it might seem obvious, but the WW2 answer is, fly higher, flying higher has two good attributes, you crash less and stay alive longer and also fight the enemy longer, to be bluntly honest, lingering longer over the sea commenting on wave heights in the sim is Tree stuff.

Its getting old.

I said even when I fly high I still feel like I am flying low because the waves are to big. I'll give another example and hopefully you'll know what I mean. Say you are flying a few thousand ft up in a jet and they built a runway that is the size of the USA you would look as though you were about to land.

[Skoshi Tiger]

I'll give another example and hopefully you'll know what I mean. Say you are flying a few thousand ft up in a jet and they built a runway that is the size of the USA you would look as though you were about to land.

Off at a tangent I know, but I worked with a guy that got his licence and did all his flying the flying club at RAAF Pearce in Western Australia, flying Cessnas from the 2400+ metre runway.

On his first cross country he had to do a touch and go at Jandakot Airport (max length 1392m)

He recons that when he came in he almost freaked out, shook his head and said "how do they expect me to land on that tiny thing!!!!!!", I'm not sure what his instructor said? ;)


Cheers

[Katana1000S]

Do you play this game on that spec computer?

And what exactly is wrong with my PC spec ... Hmmm?

Just because its not as fast as yours does not mean i cant comment.

[Katana1000S]

I said even when I fly high I still feel like I am flying low because the waves are to big. I'll give another example and hopefully you'll know what I mean.

Ehh?

Say you are flying a few thousand ft up in a jet

A Jet?

Ahh, got you now, you are flying in arcade mode ... fair play, but in real life ... real pilots would be disorientated too, you would be frantically looking around in your cockpit, look at the HI, alt, speed instruments and out the perspex to get back in safe flying config, then fight again, then only if you shot everyone down worry about the realism of wave hight.

[Katana1000S]

I guess we could always go surfing on those big waves?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VRa-vIN2bY