1st Multisquad Campaign Battle of Britain

[JG52Uther]

Bliss would you be happy making up seperate channels on the aTAG TS for the different squads participating in this event as a temporary measure?

[klem]

Ah, but we (the Spits) were told to intercept BFs by climbing to 4/5000m altitude whilst heading for the French coast and try to catch them climbing. In all fairness the rush to get airborne became a misplaced priority and lack of experience in these sort of organised encounters took its toll.

I made an error but you learn from these mistakes and make sure you don't repeat them. By the time I did get airborne having waited patiently behind the Hurris our mission objective was pretty well scupperred.

I would have thought that having fighter groups spread over more airfileds would allow them to get airborne and form up quicker. They could also form a 'big wing' if necessary far quicker.

As I said, this was my first experience and OK, only 1.4 kills but I would certainly like to join up with a Spit squadron and hone my group co-operation skills - flying solo is one thing but flying as part of a much bigger plan is wholly different. I will definitely be logging into next weeks match for sure and look forward to being part of Gromics group.

I think its new concept for quite a few guys. We should have thought of the time factor to get the Spits up and away and given them room to do that but hindsight's a wonderful thing.

Its really important that we get the detail right in the leader briefings so don't be shy to put your point. To be honest with such a large map compared with the numbers available something is always going to slip through the net.

I know plans only survive up to the point of engagement with the enemy but we can try to get engaged on our terms.

.....................Coordination between squadrons, at least on the blue side, historically was just done with pre-flight planning, each squadron was given their radio frequency, and not the other. Although I'm certain that some sort of common freq was available, there's many stories of squads jumping each other with no way to call the other one off. Not sure how it was done in the RAF.

Yes, Ulrich Steinhilper was the man given the job of driving RT comms through and he even had problems with Galland (and the other 'Spaniards' as he called them) not wanting to know during the early period.
In the RAF the Squadrons may have heard eachother but control and direction mainly came from the ground from a Sector controller. We don't have that so we arrange for the leaders to talk to eachother, cutting out the middle man.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Bliss would you be happy making up seperate channels on the aTAG TS for the different squads participating in this event as a temporary measure?

Of course. I've already told Rudelmann that their leaders could have admin control to a particular section so they could add/setup/edit channels for their own event however they liked.

[ATAG_Bliss]

This is exactly the sort of rubbish I was trying to avoid. No-one is ruining anything. Get a grip and stop overdramatising and stirring...yet again.

Rubbish eh? So what's your excuse for not joining where the red were last week. I'd wager a guess it's holding a grudge or your pride. There is no overdramatizing at all. The drama started when you couldn't even join a TS.

Please do fill the rest of the red in.

[SYN_Jed]

It's a shame one team is trying to stir up drama over something as simple as teamspeak. I'm not gonna let someone holding a grudge ruin this for everyone. I just hope some people can swallow their pride a bit. Bickering over this is ridiculous.

What drama?. Yet again you feel the need to stir up something that isnt there. We just dont want anything to do with you. Thats our prerogative. We spoke to Farber about it and it was explained to us that not being on your TS channel was fine by them. Its their server mission and their rules. If you dont like it then so what?.

We are more than happy to use the Teamspeak that was allocated by Farber on the first week. Thankfully Im not on your Team for this so Ive no need to speak or listen to you any way.

Like you said, Bickering is ridiculous so lets just leave this out, ok?...

[SYN_Jed]

Rubbish eh? So what's your excuse for not joining where the red were last week. I'd wager a guess it's holding a grudge or your pride.

As I explained to Farber its because we didnt want to use your TS channel. Its no secret that we dont get along. Why on earth would we want to be associated with you in any way?. Like I said tho...we checked with the organisers and they said no probs. I can see that you are trying to suggest that we are not team players here. Fair enough if that is your intention. Im pretty sure tho that people can see through that.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I have yet to bicker. There's 2 pages in this thread simply because you couldnt join a ts. The drama belongs to you. Unlike you we don't care if we have to fly with syn or not. We are here to try and enjoy a big teamwork event.

[bw_wolverine]

This is why we can't have nice things :(

Organizers, maybe just make sure the briefing places Syndicate pilots on an airfield to their own, that way they can be on their own comms and not have to worry about coordinating ground movement.

If they require contacting other red pilots, the in game friendly only chat box will work. Simple phrases. Require assist. H14. 8k ft.

Solved.

Moving on!

[SYN_Jed]

Mind you, if the Reds want to make use of our entire teamspeak for this weekly event they are more than welcome. We cant however hold more than 35 people so both teams isnt an option for us.

The offer is there if you want it, guys

[5./JG27.Farber]

Of course. I've already told Rudelmann that their leaders could have admin control to a particular section so they could add/setup/edit channels for their own event however they liked.

Sounds good bliss.


So has anyone worked out the correlation between the CTD and hardware/settings? Is there a quick and dirty fix?

[5./JG27.Farber]

As I explained to Farber its because we didnt want to use your TS channel. Its no secret that we dont get along. Why on earth would we want to be associated with you in any way?. Like I said tho...we checked with the organisers and they said no probs. I can see that you are trying to suggest that we are not team players here. Fair enough if that is your intention. Im pretty sure tho that people can see through that.

I have yet to bicker. There's 2 pages in this thread simply because you couldnt join a ts. The drama belongs to you. Unlike you we don't care if we have to fly with syn or not. We are here to try and enjoy a big teamwork event.



I do not care which TS any particular Squadron or Staffel uses. In WW2 and other wars, do you two really think everyone on each side got along? Just bite the bullit, work together, communicate and win!

Be better men.


If you wanna talk about this anymore -

Don't involve this thread, campaign or my Staffel...

[CaptainDoggles]

I do not care which TS any particular Squadron or Staffel uses. In WW2 and other wars, do you two really think everyone on each side got along? Just bite the bullit, work together, communicate and win!

Hard to work together and communicate if half the team is on a different server (or if we keep getting booted).

I'd suggest all of Axis move to ATAG's server if Bliss is okay with that.

[Osprey]

Mind you, if the Reds want to make use of our entire teamspeak for this weekly event they are more than welcome. We cant however hold more than 35 people so both teams isnt an option for us.

The offer is there if you want it, guys

It's a credit to the campaign that this is probably not possible given the numbers involved. We were knocking on the door of 35 reds last time. Please don't take that the wrong way, it's a refusal on practical terms, not political.

I think Wolverine had an amicable solution if SYN are ok with it, that is that the organisers give SYN an airfield of your own to operate from and we communicate through game chat (although I am unsure how to keep that to red only in chat at the moment)
I suspect you will be handed a mission anyway, perhaps the organisers can make this happen (Hurricanes I believe), and I would just request that you let us know if you wish to change from that plan at all.

As for Spitfire support, I will pledge our No.64 squadron to fly Spitfires (organisers please see previous entry) and No.501 on Hurricanes. We will make up our numbers with our lonewolves if they don't mind.

See you on Sunday!

[ATAG_Bliss]

Hard to work together and communicate if half the team is on a different server (or if we keep getting booted).

I'd suggest all of Axis move to ATAG's server if Bliss is okay with that.

Yeah I'm sure that will be fine with us. I'll try and work with Farber/Rudelmann and get them setup with the privileges. The only thing I would suggest is to add some sub channels under the corresponding airfields. Basically exactly as Jg27's TS, but with more sections. There were around 7 to 8 different flight groups after everyone split up last time. So it would be harder com wise if all the channels had 8+ people in them.

As far as CTD's, I don't understand the cause. It seems I can play longer on my laptop than I can on my personal pc. Perhaps resolution has something to do with how often it happens?

(my laptop is much lesser machine than my desktop)

[SYN_Jed]

I think Wolverine had an amicable solution if SYN are ok with it, that is that the organisers give SYN an airfield of your own to operate from and we communicate through game chat (although I am unsure how to keep that to red only in chat at the moment)
I suspect you will be handed a mission anyway, perhaps the organisers can make this happen (Hurricanes I believe), and I would just request that you let us know if you wish to change from that plan at all.

See you on Sunday!


We can work with that no probs at all. If any others sign up for the campaign after this they can always be allocated to our field and also comms as another "wing". Whatever works for you all.

[CaptainDoggles]

Yeah I'm sure that will be fine with us. I'll try and work with Farber/Rudelmann and get them setup with the privileges.

I can set up the channels, they're usually pretty busy on mission nights.

[Jatta Raso]

So has anyone worked out the correlation between the CTD and hardware/settings? Is there a quick and dirty fix?

i very rarely (if ever) CTD when online, usually ATAG, all i can relate to is that after last patch i don't touch my .ini files. then again, i've always been among the luckiest ones with these random crash features...

1680x1050 / texture HIGH / trees MEDIUM/ everything else HIGH / AA 1x / EF OFF / SSAO OFF / VSYNC ON
___________
q6600 3.2
GTX570
4G DDR2 800
Win7 64

[ATAG_Bliss]

i very rarely (if ever) CTD when online, usually ATAG, all i can relate to is that after last patch i don't touch my .ini files. then again, i've always been among the luckiest ones with these random crash features...

1680x1050 / texture HIGH / trees MEDIUM/ everything else HIGH / AA 1x / EF OFF / SSAO OFF / VSYNC ON
___________
q6600 3.2
GTX570
4G DDR2 800
Win7 64

Could you please post up your config?

@Doggles - Thanks. I'll hook up with you on steam later on.

[CaptainDoggles]

I'll be idle on steam most of the day. I think you have my email address already Bliss, send me an email if I don't reply on steam.

[Jatta Raso]

sure:


EpilepsyFilter=0

[window]
DepthBits =32
StencilBits=16
DrawIfNotFocused=0
SaveAspect=0
[B]Render=D3D10_0
width=1680
height=1050
posLeft=0
posTop=0
ColourBits=32
FullScreen=1
ChangeScreenRes=1
Frequency=60
StereoMode=0

[NET]
speed=100000
localPort=27015
serverName=My Server
serverDescription=IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover
serverInfo1=
serverInfo2=
serverInfo3=
serverInfo4=
VAC=1
maxPlayers=255
socksEnable=0
socksHost=
socksPort=1080
socksUser=
socksPwd=
host=216.52.148.29
port=27016

[Console]
IP=20001
UseStartLog=1
WRAP=1
PAUSE=1
HISTORY=1024
HISTORYCMD=1024
PAGE=20
LOG=0
LOGTIME=0
LOAD=console.cmd
SAVE=console.cmd
LOGFILE=log.txt
LOGKEEP=0

[rts]
; 0 - not use, 1 - show cursor and not capture, 2 - not show cursor, and capture
mouseUse=2
; 0 - not use, 1 - use if hardware exist
joyUse=1
; 0 - not use, 1 - use if hardware exist
trackIRUse=1

[rts_mouse]
SensitivityX=1.0
SensitivityY=1.0
SensitivityZ=1.0
Invert=0
SwapButtons = 0

[rts_joystick]
FF=1

[core]
RandSeed = 0
TexQual=2
TexFlags.PolygonStipple=0
Shadows=1
SpecularLight=2
DiffuseLight=2
DynamicalLights=1
MeshDetail=2
LandShading=2
LandDetails=2
Sky=3
Forest=2
VisibilityDistance=3
LandGeom=2
DrawCollisions=1
Water=-1
Effects=2
EffFlags.Light=1
EffFlags.SpriteRender=0
Grass=3
CordEffect=1
UseFog=0
UseLandCube=1
UseLandConnectedObject=1
LinearObjectManager=1
Roads=1
Sun=1
Clouds=1
EffFlags.LightSpritesProj=1
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TexFlags.AsyncLoad=1
TexFlags.ShowTexture=0
SimpleMesh.SWTransform=0
SimpleMesh.QuadTreeClip=1
SimpleMesh.InstancingHW=1
EffFlags.LightContextSprites=1
CloudsFlags.Detailed=1
TexFlags.CreateHDR=1
Decals=2
EffFlags.SWLight=0
TexFlags.CockpitOnePass=0
MegaTexture=0
TexFlags.Reflection=0
RenderTargetQual=3
MSAA=1
MeshStatics=3
MeshStaticsDetail=2
SimpleMesh.QTNoCompose=0
MeshFirstLod=0
MeshShowLod=0
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TexFlags.SSAO=0
TexFlags.VSync=1
TexFlags.FastTransparency=1

[sound]
SoundUse=1
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Placement=0
SoundFlags.reversestereo=0
RadioFlags.Enabled=1
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MusicVolume=14
ObjectVolume=7
MusState.takeoff=1
MusState.inflight=1
MusState.crash=1
MusFlags.play=1
MasterVolume=14
Attenuation=7
SoundMode=0
SamplingRate=0
NumChannels=2
SoundExt.occlusions=1
SoundFlags.hardware=1
SoundFlags.streams=1
SoundFlags.duplex=1
SoundExt.acoustics=1
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SoundFlags.voicemgr=1
SoundFlags.static=1
VoiceVolume=8
Channels=1
SoundFlags.bugscorrect=0
SoundExt.extrender=0
SoundSetupId=8
ActivationLevel=0.02
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RadioLatency=0.5
AGC=1
PTTMode=1
RadioFlags.PTTMode=0
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ActLevel=9
MicLevel=10
SoundFlags.UseRadioChatter=0
SoundFlags.AutoActivation=0
SoundFlags.forceEAX1=0
speakers=3
vgMaster=2
vgVoice=15
vgMusic=15

[game]
mapPadX=0.6023809
mapPadY=0

so it's pretty much unttouched settings; as you can see, i have Render=D3D10_0 just at the beggining, i once set it to Render=D3D10_1 and all hell broke loose; reseted to 0 default; also my install is from scratch after latest patch

[5./JG27.Farber]

Interesting. Alas it was already so.

I strongly believe this is a fault concerning ATI radeon cards and the game. I think Nvidea get a better time of it.

[bw_wolverine]

Growing excited for the next mission! Not even Skyrim will keep me from the skies on Sunday.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Briefs might not be out till saturday. Airfields will be the same unless anyone has any serious objects? Was there any serious spawn issues last time?

[klem]

Briefs might not be out till saturday. Airfields will be the same unless anyone has any serious objects? Was there any serious spawn issues last time?

I don't recall any actual spawn point issues where I was at Manston which was a bit busy but ok, while Hawkinge sounded like chaos. Perhaps disperse one or two Hawkinge units to say Lympne or Littlestone? Even perhaps move a unit from Manston to nearby Ramsgate?

EDIT: btw I may have a 100Mb up/down TS3 server available for Reds on Saturday thanks to a friend - will get back asap.

[5./JG27.Farber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB9OR_poSYc&feature=player_embedded

[klem]

Its not up yet but we have obtained the use of a TS3 server on a 100Mb up/down connection if it would solve the problem of who will/won't use which TS3. If that can get us all together on TS it would be very useful.

If some are still not willing to share TS with some others, well, just let me know I'm wasting my time.

I'm going to get the guys to check here first in case its not wanted before setting it up.

This is the IP
teamspeak.ukatc.com
You can also connect directly to the IP address: 77.251.29.224

I've asked for it to mirror the channels structure on the ATAG server under
5./JG27 and 9./ZG26 Campaign

[5./JG27.Farber]

What!? I dont understand, you have found neutral ground for red or all Squads?

[klem]

What!? I dont understand, you have found neutral ground for red or all Squads?

Yes, it is intended to be neutral ground for all the Reds and Blues. Ideally all units need to be on the same TS but there was some history which prevented some units from doing that.

It is a TS server provided by the friend of one of our Squad members. This person does not even fly in CoD.

It will be configured for both Blues and Reds in the same way as the ATAG server.

However they will check here first to see if it is still wanted. Some expressed a preference not to use the ATAG server or use their own. If they still don't want to join a common TS there's no point in offering it.

So, would anyone not willing to use a common TS please sound off asap so we don't waste their time.

[xHeadbanDx]

================================================== ==========
Sign Up - individuals looking for Squadrons/Staffeln:

Your Call Sign: PorkChop
Red/Blue: Blue
Bomber/Fighter/Destroyer/STUKA: Figther / fighter
Preferred Aircraft: 109

================================================== ==========

[SYN_Repent]

yes klem, it is fine, for the record, there is no history between our squad and any other.

[Bobb4]

Have the briefs been posted?

[Jatta Raso]

================================================== ==========
Sign Up - individuals looking for Squadrons/Staffeln:

Your Call Sign: UFO_113
Red/Blue: Red
Bomber/Fighter/Destroyer/STUKA: Figther / fighter
Preferred Aircraft: Spit Ia

================================================== ==========

[smurf-oly]

I would like to offer myself up as cannon-fodder for the campaign, but can't figure out how to do it.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Bases:

RED:

504RAF Hendon A16
Hurricanes

Any RAF Hornchurch C16
Spits, Blenheim IV, Hurricanes.

69GIAP


Easchchurch F15
Spitfires

ATAG


West malling D14
Spits, Hurricanes.

Syndicate


Hawkinge G13
Hurricanes

104th


Scramble! Large formations of enemy aircraft are inbound! Fighter sweep over South East England.

Any Squadrons unassigned use one of the bases where no other squad is listed. As always use commone sense, if there are bad probems just spawn somewhere else.



Blue, Homuth will handle your briefs - enquire with him if you dont have briefs very soon.

[smurf-oly]

I probably should be red cannon-fodder as most of my experience has been flying Spits. That way it will, hopefully, look a bit more convincing (and be slightly more satisfying for the shooters) when I'm blown out of the sky... I'll give ts a try tomorrow. Thanks!

================================================== ==========

Call Sign: OlyMurph
Red/Blue: Red
Bomber/Fighter/Destroyer/STUKA: Fighter / fighter
Preferred Aircraft: Spit Ia

================================================== ==========

[l3uLLDoZeR]

I'm gonna try and jump on this ship!
================================================== ==========

Your Call Sign: l3ullDozer
Red/Blue:Any
Bomber/Fighter/Destroyer/STUKA: Fighter/Destroyer
Preferred Aircraft: 110/spit/hurri

================================================== ==========

[klem]

Bases:

RED:

504RAF Hendon A16
Hurricanes

Any RAF Hornchurch C16
Spits, Blenheim IV, Hurricanes.

69GIAP


Easchchurch F15
Spitfires

ATAG


West malling D14
Spits, Hurricanes.

Syndicate


Hawkinge G13
Hurricanes

104th


Scramble! Large formations of enemy aircraft are inbound! Fighter sweep over South East England.

Any Squadrons unassigned use one of the bases where no other squad is listed. As always use commone sense, if there are bad probems just spawn somewhere else.



Blue, Homuth will handle your briefs - enquire with him if you dont have briefs very soon.

EDITED:-

I believe

504RAF Hendon A16
Hurricanes

Any RAF Hornchurch C16
Spits, Blenheim IV, Hurricanes.

69GIAP

Should read:

504RAF Hendon A16
Hurricanes

Any RAF

Hornchurch C16
Spits, Blenheim IV, Hurricanes.

69GIAP

If 69GIAP are taking Spitfires 56RAF will take Hornchurch Hurricanes otherwise we'll take the Hendon Hurricanes (but did you mean 501RAF for Hendon?).
We are open to spare pilots willing to fly as wingman to one of ours.

EDIT #2: Or if SYN are flying Spits we could take the West Malling Hurris.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I think your getting mixed up, or I dont understand what your asking.

:confused:

EDIT1

504RAF Hendon A16
Hurricanes

UNASSIGNED



Yes.

[klem]

I think your getting mixed up, or I dont understand what your asking.

:confused:

EDIT1

504RAF Hendon A16
Hurricanes

UNASSIGNED



Yes.

OK, 56RAF will take the Hendon Hurricanes.

I was confused because Hendon was the only base you put a Squadron number in front of, so I wondered if you were assigning it to a unit and then I wondered if you meant to type 501RAF not 504RAF. (56RAF and 501RAF both took part in the first two rounds)

Anyway, I guess 501RAF will take West Malling but we can sort it out tonight.

[5./JG27.Farber]

OK, 56RAF will take the Hendon Hurricanes.

I was confused because Hendon was the only base you put a Squadron number in front of, so I wondered if you were assigning it to a unit and then I wondered if you meant to type 501RAF not 504RAF. (56RAF and 501RAF both took part in the first two rounds)

Anyway, I guess 501RAF will take West Malling but we can sort it out tonight.

Rudelmann made this mission and didnt put in the unit names.... The previous two and the last one for next week were made by me. I suppose he wanted to give you the freedom of using your own units skins? I might leave the unit names on the bases in future but place squadron as any... Maybe.

[JG5_emil]

What time will this start?

[Osprey]

I've been away all weekend, but I'm here now, and both No.501 and No.64 will be flying. If we're from 1 base with CSP Spits and Hurricanes then fine.

We hope to send you our JG26 squadron too (ahem,....2 pilots....has good leaders but needs more crew....)

[klem]

Its up if you want to use it

teamspeak.ukatc.com

People can also connect directly to the IP address: 77.251.29.22

EDIT: HOLD THAT!! - not enough time to organise so we're on the ATAG TS3

Hopefully next week we can all be together on the independent server.

[JG5_emil]

Bloody TIR Pro Clip thingie broke just before the mission so couldn't fly :(

[ATAG_Bliss]

Great stuff today gents..

Got into a scruff near Ramsgate where a 5 minute yoyo ensued. Just as I was about to get a bead on the chasing 109, I get pked from the 110 behind me. I should've known ;)

Excellent teamwork and excellent mission.

Thanks fellas..

[bw_wolverine]

Managed to get out to Ramsgate and engage. Shot up the tailgunner in a 110 before turning back to re-engage and my game crashed. Sigh.

The concept for this is great, but they absolutely NEED to fix the crashes. I was hoping it could be worked around since playing online has so far been great, but in a 'real' campaign with 1 chance to fly, it's frustrating and a half :/

[5./JG27.Farber]

Managed to get out to Ramsgate and engage. Shot up the tailgunner in a 110 before turning back to re-engage and my game crashed. Sigh.

The concept for this is great, but they absolutely NEED to fix the crashes. I was hoping it could be worked around since playing online has so far been great, but in a 'real' campaign with 1 chance to fly, it's frustrating and a half :/

I hear you, they really need to FIX THIS NOW!

We lost two to CTD and myself over Manston. Wonder if that spit made it home

[Osprey]

Unfortunately, along with some of my comrades, I didn't see any action. After forming up over RAF Kenley a number of CTD's occurred. Whilst I understand and agree that we want to have a 'one life' policy I don't think COD is ready for it given the stability right now. Is there an alternative coding method we could implement perhaps? eg.

if(pilot == damaged){
if(pilot==dead)
{
stop refly for that pilot
}}

Flying home to reload in an undamaged aircraft should be allowed anyway

[Jatta Raso]

"server authentication failure" even with reboots, loggoffs and steam restarts... oh well

guess my third attempt next week will do?

[JG52Uther]

Krupi and Karaya both got the .exe crash, I myself flew the whole mission at 300 kph and 8.30 PP in an E4 after my auto PP got stuck and I couldn't remember the button for manual...
Bombed a ship (missed) and escorted some dorniers home to crashland at base after getting flak damaged.
I agree it would be a good idea to get rid of the respawn ban for next weeks mission, CoD just isn't stable enough for it just now.

[Jatta Raso]

ok i will later, thanks;)
note - never had this before, last week logged fine several times on JG27 server

[Osprey]

Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead, it's just psuedocode as an idea. I guess it depends on how the player list is acquired or stored, as in you need to record everyone's ID and for the life of the mission remember what refly status they have. There are loads of properties you can get for the player and aircraft so it should be achievable.

I don't get the architecture of the scripting yet in order to start writing my own, that said I just need to spend some time actually doing it!

[Sven]

Managed to get out to Ramsgate and engage. Shot up the tailgunner in a 110 before turning back to re-engage and my game crashed. Sigh.

The concept for this is great, but they absolutely NEED to fix the crashes. I was hoping it could be worked around since playing online has so far been great, but in a 'real' campaign with 1 chance to fly, it's frustrating and a half :/

My poor rear gunner, as I was transmitting my position I didn't see you coming. Dived away just in time to avoid the real damage, then lost you.
I received positions from my friends over the radio and climbed up to safer altitude. We then intercepted a flight of 3 to 4 Spitfires. We made long manoeuvres and kept contact, then I saw a Spit turning into our Staffel Kapitän and following him up into the sun. I then closed in and tried to stay undetected, the sun blinded me as I fired all my guns. As I flew past him I saw him rolling over and he never pulled out of the dive the then made.

Over the Manston/Ramsgate area we downed a total of 4 aircraft.

S!

Didn't crash this 3rd mission, I seem to be crash proof so far.

[bw_wolverine]

My poor rear gunner, as I was transmitting my position I didn't see you coming. Dived away just in time to avoid the real damage, then lost you.


Hehe.

Actually, my gunnery was very poor. You were in a light turn/climb when I was shooting and I judged it wrong and most of my bullets fell away under you.

If I was a half way decent shot, you'd have a different story to tell ;)

[xHeadbanDx]

Had alot of fun flying the mission today, even tho after droping some bombs on the target my game CTD along with most of the ppl i was flying with :(

hopefully they can hurry up and fix this.....

[Jatta Raso]

Did you input the password in correctly? If you fail 3 times, the only way to let you in is to restart the server. As we only had 1 reported password failure, it was decided not to restart the server.

all i got was "server authentication failure" a few seconds after hit connect, didn't even saw the loading bar; so i never even got to enter the pw

[klem]

We missed everything :(

Perhaps too high at 16-18k and from Biggin Hill we may not have reached the coast in time. Had a pleasant cruise over Pas de Calais but no trade.

We had one feezeup/disconnect. Hard to blame that one on memory leak as he has 16Gb RAM although CoD may have run out of legroom as a 32bit application.

[klem]

We weren't able to use this TS last night due to short notice but it will be up again for next week's mission.

teamspeak.ukatc.com
People can also connect directly to the IP address: 77.251.29.22

I hope we can get everyone on it, we are learning fast.

I thought it had all gone to rat's when we saw and heard nothing last night but cheesehawk has explained why it was so quiet :)
Well, it was the 13th !

Is last night's mission to be run again?

[Untamo]

S!

Lentolaivue 34 had somewhat better experience this time. Only 1 out of 3 us had the launcher crash this time :) .. Didn't see any enemies though :-/

[5./JG27.Farber]

Is last night's mission to be run again?

Nope were going to stick to the script and run the last mission for next week. These are all lesson for next time.
I think we will have to wait for the next campaign until this CTD to be fixed or at least if someone can find a solution...

Hopefully next time, we will have an online section where people can log into to get briefings, a seperate TS3 for RED/BLUE and stats. We also aim to run double the number of missions. Also have some red attacks! :-P



About the one spawn thing, we are considering different options but really I think there is only 3:

1.Use the same system (No respawns after X amount of time)
2.Use SNAFU's server script 1 life/multiple aircraft - but does this account for being captured?
3.Dont use any restrictions but shorten down the mission so a respawn is a waste of time...

Now I can hear some of you thinking, why have one at all why not fly as much as we want?! The answer is simple, with no consequnce people fly wrecklessly and unrealistically. So if you only get one life or one chance to fight you will bring your best flying skills! It also seperates it from being like a public server and makes it allot more exciting (or frustrating).

[klem]

Nope were going to stick to the script and run the last mission for next week. These are all lesson for next time.
I think we will have to wait for the next campaign until this CTD to be fixed or at least if someone can find a solution...

Hopefully next time, we will have an online section where people can log into to get briefings, a seperate TS3 for RED/BLUE and stats. We also aim to run double the number of missions. Also have some red attacks! :-P



About the one spawn thing, we are considering different options but really I think there is only 3:

1.Use the same system (No respawns after X amount of time)
2.Use SNAFU's server script 1 life/multiple aircraft - but does this account for being captured?
3.Dont use any restructions but shotern down the mission so a respawn is a waste of time...

Now I can hear some of you thinking, why have one at all why not fly as much as we want?! The answer is simple, with no consequnce people fly wrecklessly and unrealistically. So if you only get one life or one chance to fight you will bring your best flying skills! It also seperates it from being like a public server and makes it allot more exciting (or frustrating).

Sounds great Farber.

I'd go for options 1 and 2. Allow a window for spawn problems, even takeoff-crashes and collisions among guys just not used to doing this. Then if you can script in 1 life and respawns that would be great.

You could also perhaps script in a takeoff delay for bailed pilots. If it were possible to identify which side of the channel they were on you could delay their takeoff for say 15 minutes if over friendly territory or 30 mins if over the channel or enemy territory. Or just a global delay. Just a thought :)

Here's a couple more ideas from what we've done before, probably for way in the future.

Have everyone pre-register for this and assign them to their (preferred?) unit in advance. Also allow this to be done by CoD Squadron with expected numbers (well, we do this now).
Walk-ons would be reduced and easily handled on the night.

Have a Command structure (by direct request or volunteered during registration?). Axis/Allied Commanders could even discuss the campaign, settings (not specific targets of course) but most important be made aware of their order of battle and the amount of 'intelligence' available to them. The main advantage would be a focal point for each side.

Commanders decide tactics and issue briefings to their unit leaders in advance. Spreads the load and gives some structure instead of trying to work it out on the night and perhaps not knowing who is doing what. We haven't really cracked that yet.

Only issue the server password to unit commanders via the appointed Teamspeak server on the night so that everyone is encouraged to actively co-operate and prevents gate crashing (we're partly there with passwording). Also allows a clear and definitive 'GO' to be issued to the Commanders when the server is started.

Just a nicety really, everyone could turn up 'in uniform', i.e. if they are assigned to 74 Sqdn they turn up re-badged as say 74RAF_klem or JG52/3_Farber.

Looking forward to Sunday.... and the next one :)

[bw_wolverine]

Nope were going to stick to the script and run the last mission for next week. These are all lesson for next time.
I think we will have to wait for the next campaign until this CTD to be fixed or at least if someone can find a solution...

Well, regardless of the frustrations and the problems I have thoroughly enjoyed participating in this and I think that would be the same to say for the majority of us.

It's been great talking to folks on the teamspeak servers and getting to know the other squads. Just speaking for myself as a 'lone wolf' pilot this has been a great opportunity to get acquainted with some squadrons that I might want to join up with.

I'm confident that the crashing issues will be resolved at some point in the future and at that time there's a lot of things that will open up to us in terms of running events like this.

That said, I don't think we should stop putting events of a similar nature on, but maybe scale them back a bit to find the sweet spot where crashes aren't so much an issue. Maybe running with a player limit will help, or altering the structure so that respawning/restarting is figured into the mission. Perhaps limiting the participating numbers to 24 pilots will allow the mission to run with fewer people suffering crashes.

I would love to run events like this, but I lack the dedicated server to do it. I have plenty of ideas of how to create a campaign structure though. I won't post them here, but if anyone is interested, I'll create a thread for those kinds of thoughts.

Anyway, thanks again for all the hard work and planning required to put this thing on guys!

Salute!

[56RAF_Witch]

Gent's,

Last night several of us flew around without meeting the enemy, this didn't happen the week before, mainly, I imagine, because the previous week we were given the flight path of the Buff's.

Can we do this again for the repeat of mission 3 next Sunday? It certainly makes for a good simulation of the information provided by the RAF Radar controllers, much better than the in-game radar reports, which are a bit pointless. But, most importantly, the previous method ensured we all got together for a big fight :)

Along with this, coud we have less German Bomber formations BUT Bigger German Bomber formations? so instead of three groups of 9 or 12 planes, could we have 1 formation of 40 planes? it would certainly make it easier to find, for both sides, and be more Battle of Britain'ish. It would be interesting to see how far the server can stretch with AI bomber formations... will we ever get to formations in the hundreds?

Just a suggestion.

56RAF_Witch
CO No. 56 Squadron RAF

[SEE]

Very large Bomber formations with players around caused me severe lag and severe fps performance issues on the ATAG server when it was tried.

I couldn't make last night but will be good for all the next ones.

[phoenix1963]

Cheesehawk - there were also some ghosts around on the server last night.
I hope it was because all your scripts didn't run.
56RAF_phoenix

[Osprey]

Blues complained about Reds getting info, so others decided not to give them briefings. Remember, there were days that there were holes in the radar coverage, so we can write it up as the Home Chain was under repair! ;)

TBH this I find rather annoying. Given that the facts of history are that the RAF did have location info in the form of radar and that the only losses to radar were only ever minor and immediately post an attack on a radar station so it was never down EVER prior to a German raid. Only Ventnor was put out of action for any significant period and that was after about 30 Ju88's attacked it on 12th August. You have a stark choice really, it's historical within gaming possibilities or it's not. Personally I am not interested in the latter at all. You had may as well have us all line up on the runway for those ultra talented 109 pilots who like things to be all their way and cannot understand how Germany lost given the obvious superiority of the 109, we know it was better because Goering said so. Sorry it's a rant, I get fed up with those wanting it all their way.

As for mission 3: I would like a re-run, seems a waste of mapping not to, but it's up to the organisers. And as for those options you mention, I would go for option 2 but modify the code so that it includes damaged aeroplanes too? ie, land with damage and you're done because the aircraft needs to be taken away to be repaired. The ban on spawn is a nightmare because it's not takeoff that has taken out most of my team but CTD, then you have to refly, but that is often too late.

I'd like to see the code for the deathkick so will have a look around here.

~S~

[Sven]

It was a countermeasure to balance out another missing historical accuracy, the 'few' in this campaign are not the British, it turned out to be the Luftwaffe. Given the large formations of bombers heading to England this last mission it would have been almost impossible to miss them, unfortunately 75% didn't spawn due to an error. We also got the recon flights working who reported enemy formations for you.

We will give you your 'radars' back next mission, seeing as it had such an impact on Red's capabilities. This campaign is also a trial and error for future campaigns for us, keep that in mind.

[JG52Uther]

For all the problems, I have enjoyed this campaign, and would quite happily fly it again if the next patch fixes these crashes.
I have been lucky and only had a crash in mission 2, but some people have not managed to complete one mission yet, and that does not do the campaign justice, with the amount of work you guys have put into it.
As an online war flyer, it will be hard to go back to dogfight servers again after this.

[bw_wolverine]

As an online war flyer, it will be hard to go back to dogfight servers again after this.

We could always repurpose the dog fight servers to our wants as long as everyone kept to a few rules enforced by the honour system.

For example: The ATAG server has constant bomber flights taking off and attacking targets on both sides of the channel. The radar works well there too (at least it seems to).

A mission run time is given of 3:00EST to 5:00EST or whenever and we organize squadrons of 6 planes each like so:

RAF Squadron 1....RAF Squadron 2
1._____________ 1._____________
2._____________ 2._____________
3._____________ 3._____________
4._____________ 4._____________
5._____________ 5._____________
6._____________ 6._____________

LW Squadron 1.....LW Squadron 2
1._____________ 1._____________
2._____________ 2._____________
3._____________ 3._____________
4._____________ 4._____________
5._____________ 5._____________
6._____________ 6._____________


People sign up for a slot and each Squadron is assigned a tag that they attach to their steam name for the duration of the mission. Then, everyone joins the server at the 3:00 time or thereabouts. Mission goals are determined by the squadron leaders. IE: If a flight of bombers takes off from France heading to attack Lympne, one of the LW squadrons might be assigned to escort it. The other squadron might fly a fighter sweep or recon or whatever. RAF squadrons might wait on the ground until an enemy bomber group has been identified and then scramble. Whatever the squadron leaders want to do. This might not mean you always see the enemy but then that's sometimes what happens.

Rules for rearm/refuel:
If you bring your plane back to base, you can respawn when/if the rest of your squadron has returned to base.

Rules for death/crashes/etc.:

Launcher Crash = You can respawn and regroup with your flight.
Safe bail out over friendly territory = You can respawn when/if your entire flight has RTB'd or safely bailed out over friendly territory
Pilot death/bail out over water/enemy territory = your day is done

So, for example, a 6 plane squadron goes out. One pilot is shot down over home territory and bails out safely. In combat, two more pilots are shot down. One is killed in the cockpit and the other bails out safely over water. Three remaining planes return to base and all three land safely. At this point, the first pilot and the three who returned home may spawn new aircraft.

Obviously this wouldn't exactly be historic in nature, but it might be at least a half way point between the launcher crash friendly environment of the dog fight server and the restrictions of the historic campaign server.

The biggest flaw in this idea is flying on a public server and all the hazards that entails with people who aren't actually participating. The ATAG missions being run would be great for this (with their constant bomber streams), but perhaps it could be run on a private passworded server for this semi-campaign style game?

[ATAG_Bliss]

Rudelmann,

Saw your post about the Script Spawn C. I don't think it does quite what you think it does. I'll start off with the caveat I could be wrong ;), but IMO I think it's a mis-translation or typo and should actually read Script Spawn On. If you put AI flights or moving ground objects for that matter (any object with that check mark) they will spawn in the mission upon mission start up unless you have it checked.

In other words, if you are using a script to spawn them, you need that section checked. I have a gazillion airgroups in one .mis file. If I didn't have that checked (on all the airgroups I want delayed) they would all start flying at the same time!

[Osprey]

lol, count me in one of those who haven't finished. In fact, this mission was the first time I'd made it even half way across the Channel!

Wolv, your idea has merits, but isn't exactly what we're trying to accomplish. We need something seperate from a public server to really get into squadron flights. Random elements (newbie pilots spawn crashing, people already in the air vulching, people jumping your flights, friendly killing) are just too many variables for systems like that to work on the highest pop server out there now!

We do not encourage lone wolves, but for sake of pulling the community together, allowed it this time. Next campaign will be more strict on squadrons only.

With you all the way here Cheesehawk. This is a great way to get into working groups. DF server flying is too random, it's not structured and doesn't best reflect the possibilities. Under 1946 our crew ran campaign of semi-re-enactment for a number of weeks and there was nothing quite like all taking off in a large group and heading somewhere then being attacked by another large group with the melee that follows! It was vs AI, but the best and most relaxed fun you can have.

I like the grand plan here cheese, and my crew is in on it :D

[ATAG_Bliss]

Right, I know how it works, and we cleaned this mission up from the server based mission of the same name (made it more for campaign, took escorts out, no red attackers). In the main server map, I use the script spawn C triggers/actions to split up the spawns, so you don't have literally 75 planes spawning in the exact same second. When I removed the triggers/actions, I forgot to correspondingly remove the check box.... I'M AN IDIOT!! :D


Edit: The other thing it does, is after that point, it stops loading scripts in. For example, if you use sub-missions like we do, and there's a ScriptSpawnC error in sm2, then it won't load sm3 and on at all. That killed my mission, as the 2nd sub-mission had 1 thing checked still.

Hmm - I've never had the that check box stop loading a script. Actually I have about 65 separate triggers with Script Spawn C and the next one always loads at the corresponding time regardless if they're activated in a submission or not. I've never seen the ScriptSpawnC error though. I guess your scripts must be a bit different than mine.. Interesting.

[bw_wolverine]

Wolv, your idea has merits, but isn't exactly what we're trying to accomplish. We need something seperate from a public server to really get into squadron flights. Random elements (newbie pilots spawn crashing, people already in the air vulching, people jumping your flights, friendly killing) are just too many variables for systems like that to work on the highest pop server out there now!

I agree, this sort of idea would work best on a private server (passworded as I said). I just hate the idea of having to wait a long time to do these sorts of events again.

I think the respawning rules I laid out would work with the current campaign system you guys are running. It just wouldn't really be something you could code (or it would be difficult to). People would just have to follow the rules.

Anyway, looking forward to Sunday.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Patience...

Running it one day day a week allows you to train online in public servers... then bring your A game to the special event...

Its more exciting that way... :-P


Dont worry, as soon as we have stats running, the CTD is fixed and we have done some more work... It will be better, bigger and worthwhile!

Glad so many enjoyed it. This was our primary aim. It makes it a whorthwhile project and justifies our time making it so. Next time there will be more planning by each side and statistics making it a little more competitive! Our main aim here was to bring the MP community together and justify its longevity. I think we achieved it but it wasnt without help... Before this is all finished, I'd like to thank Kodiak for helping us with scripts and keeping the secret. I'd also like to thank the community for taking part.... With out you guys it would be nothing.

Note for next time... Pick one side! Seen a few Squads changing side... Well after next sunday It'll be done and dusted. When they fix the CTD'ing we will be ready and waiting!

S!

[JTDawg]

lol, count me in one of those who haven't finished. In fact, this mission was the first time I'd made it even half way across the Channel!

Wolv, your idea has merits, but isn't exactly what we're trying to accomplish. We need something seperate from a public server to really get into squadron flights. Random elements (newbie pilots spawn crashing, people already in the air vulching, people jumping your flights, friendly killing) are just too many variables for systems like that to work on the highest pop server out there now!

We do not encourage lone wolves, but for sake of pulling the community together, allowed it this time. Next campaign will be more strict on squadrons only. WOW IF I WANT TO PLAY JOIN A CLAN ! :mad: LONE WOLVES, VULCHING, JUMPINGING IN FIGHTS = BS MOST OF US TEAM PLAYERS DONT DO THIS .WE FLY WINGMAN TACTICS, AN IN GROUPS .I PERSONALLY NEVER VULCH!!! YOU WANT TO EXCLUDE CERTAIN PLAYERS FINE .BUT MAKING US JOIN A CLAN TO PLAY IS B.S-----SIGNED JUST A TEAM PLAYER!!!!

[klem]

WOW IF I WANT TO PLAY JOIN A CLAN ! :mad: LONE WOLVES, VULCHING, JUMPINGING IN FIGHTS = BS MOST OF US TEAM PLAYERS DONT DO THIS .WE FLY WINGMAN TACTICS, AN IN GROUPS .I PERSONALLY NEVER VULCH!!! YOU WANT TO EXCLUDE CERTAIN PLAYERS FINE .BUT MAKING US JOIN A CLAN TO PLAY IS B.S-----SIGNED JUST A TEAM PLAYER!!!!

Not putting words in cheesehawks mouth but I wonder if he means that all players will have to form into Squads in the missions to play in them, even if they don't belong to a CoD Squad, and will not be allowed to fly alone doing just whatever they please (=lonewolf). Of course existing CoD Squads will want to fly as a complete unit in one of the mission Squads but most of them are willing to have lone players along to build effective numbers. No reason why say 10 lone players shouldn't form one of the mission Sqauds either as long as they follow 'the plan' and don't just bog off doing whatever they please.

I suspect he doesn't mean that individuals can't join, just that they must be prepared to join a mission Squad and follow the Squad commanders instructions. Otherwise, why bother to join in a campaign like this?

[SNAFU]

Basically you are aiming at a similar concept as I did, when I started working on a July-Campaign. You will not get large number of players on a regular base with shorter intervalls (I even think 1 week intervall is too short) in my opinion, therefore I decided to go for AI engagement to provide coordinated opposition. I currently put my work on hold due to missing spare-time, motivation and the RAF Radio bug fix, but I will put the files public the day the bug is fixed, so you can use the basic script if interested.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Not putting words in cheesehawks mouth but I wonder if he means that all players will have to form into Squads in the missions to play in them, even if they don't belong to a CoD Squad, and will not be allowed to fly alone doing just whatever they please (=lonewolf). Of course existing CoD Squads will want to fly as a complete unit in one of the mission Squads but most of them are willing to have lone players along to build effective numbers. No reason why say 10 lone players shouldn't form one of the mission Sqauds either as long as they follow 'the plan' and don't just bog off doing whatever they please.

I suspect he doesn't mean that individuals can't join, just that they must be prepared to join a mission Squad and follow the Squad commanders instructions. Otherwise, why bother to join in a campaign like this?

+1

I'm hoping that's exactly what was meant, too. JT, flying with you on the ATAG server has been an education for me -- and I've been flying online since Air Warrior 2. Specifically: ammo loadouts, fuel loadouts, fighter tactics, and most recently the re-installation of Cliffs of Dover to reduce CTD's, stuttering, etc. You've generously shared your techniques -- reflected by your high kill ratios nightly -- with each of us flying with you. To top it off, we've shared some pretty poor jokes over Teamspeak to pass the time it takes to gain alt over the Channel.

From this Canuck "hoser" to this Indiana "Hoosier", I'd be proud to fly as your #2 anytime.

[hardiwn]

I agree completely with snapper,i have learned lots of needed info from JT and Sniper and fly with them when i can.I am not with any group per say but when i join up with a squad i try my best to follow their lead and not lone wolf my way around.I hope this is just a miss understanding as i enjoy my sunday flights.:-)

[klem]

We want people willing to work with other people to accomplish a goal, if a squadron accepts you into their ranks (whether you are a member or not), that's fine. Sign ups will be by squadron.

.....................................


If you mean signing up under a mission squad then the Thread signup should take care of that.

If you mean signups by existing CoD Squadrons (like ours, 56RAF) we'll have to let the guys reading the Thread know we are open to guests and they can ask to fly with us in the Thread or by PM.

[Osprey]

Well we are recruiting, red or blue, so if you want to do this sort of thing then you can join us because it's what we want to do.



.....do I win ten pounds?

[Pegasus_Eagle]

this problem has been resolved 5./JG27.Farber has steped foward like a verry respectfull leader and the problem has been took care of

thank you S! and see you in the air Farber

[5./JG27.Farber]

so if im reading this right you guys are saying that people like me jeepy and JT are no longer welcome???

I am part of a squad and and am 2nd in comand of another squad i have been a member of for almost 15 years.

and i have flown quite a few missions with jt jeepy and the others that were with us and have this to say about them,

JT and JEEPY abd the others that were with us were the first to form up and also stayed togeather most of the time in the first and last the 2 i flew with him.

now i dont know what the problem is but there is one and i will if this is theway the orgnizers want it please the one that pmmed me the pass contact me by pm.

BECAUSE IF IT IS THE WAY YOU WANT IT IM FINISHED AND I WILL RECOMEND TO THE RAAF & THE OTHER SQUAD THAT IM 2ND IN COMAND OF THAT THEY DO NOT TAKE PART IN THIS.

AS WELL AS AND NOT TO DISCLUDE THE SINGLE FLYERS
TO BE INVOLVED IN A FORCED RECUTE TYPE OF SITUATION JUST SO THEY CAN FLY.


I dont know where this has come from but public players are welcome. There is no forced recruitment. Who was that guy anyway that turned up with less than 3 posts and started this whole thing?!

Its true this is a Squadron based event and public players are encourage to fly with (not join up with as a member) one of the squadrons taking part... If it really comes down to it they can band together and be a temporary squadron if they want... Klem was on the right lines, maybe this is because he has read the thread from beginning to end? Lets not be so hastey with our perceptions just because some one with a few posts on 1c jumps this thread and makes wild assumptions. Why would I have made a sign up template for public players if there were not welcome?!

So not much need for threats or caps locks...


EDIT1: Right ok looking back I see a statement by our Rudelmann. Seeing as the next campaign is:

A) Not ready
B) Not announced officially
C) No rules at all have been drawn up for it
D) We are waiting on several things including CTD fix, stats etc.

Its not really a concern right now. I have made no thoughts to public players for the next one (probley the LAST thing on my mind right now). Basically the next campaign will be twice as long, game will be more stable (fingers crossed), have working stats, etc etc. I dont see why public players would be excluded.

Rudelmann has misunderstood something somewhere.

Sorry bout that.

[wannabetheace]

Yeah if it was run on a Saturday I could have doubled our numbers. :grin:
Unfortunately we are at a make or break point in our IL2 SEOW campaign as we launch a massive counter attack on the enemy front. We have prepped paratroop drops on airfields at our breakthrough point already. We will be fielding a near full Giap complement of active flyers, all 26 of us in Il2 so our numbers will be thin on the ground in the multi squad campaign this Sunday. The semi-active guys do not have Clod :(
Hopefully next Sunday we will pour six or so into the Clod multi squad campaign :)

Yeah saturday would have been great.
My timezone is Gmt+9 so sunday 21 00 zulu time is in my region 6am Monday morning. If I could get in the game I would manage to play 7:30 or max 8am which is not enough right? :mad::confused:

[SEE]

Just an idea that may help with low fps and CTD during takeoff. Since each flight is on TS3 would it be helpfull if flights sharing the same airfield spawn after a flight is airborne so that only one group is on the strip?

Once airborne their leader could whisper the flight leader of the next group and then they spawn, T/O and repeat the process if necessary.

[JTDawg]

We do not encourage lone wolves, but for sake of pulling the community together, allowed it this time. Next campaign will be more strict on squadrons only. ,This is a quote from Ruddelman, before your call to arms post an doggles, who asked me to join ! since i was flying red ,and you needed red .To make a long story short i think i brought 8 to 10 red non clan members . in a little over a day, For the start of your project ,which i thought was great !! and try to bring more in every week. i have read every post on this thread!. So after all i did ,after seeing ruddelmans post =slap in the face . cold slap what ever you want to call it. Was not trying to start anything but trying to defend players who fly well together, that are not in a clan=== but like i was told battlefeld 3 --------- that way,= thats what is just wrong an rude. I will not post on this subject again, i,m 51 so not a kid! or trouble maker ,you get what you give !

[bw_wolverine]

I think this is all just a misunderstanding.

I took the post regarding lone wolves to mean people who just want to join the server and not fly with anyone else. Just go up as a one plane sortie and mess around.

I'm not sure if that's been happening with the current campaign, but if it has been, then I agree that it should be discouraged.

I joined as a pilot with no official squadron at the outset and I've been made to feel very welcome flying with the others since I fly as part of the group I spawn with. I don't expect the next campaign will be any different in that respect.

[CaptainDoggles]

We do not encourage lone wolves, but for sake of pulling the community together, allowed it this time. Next campaign will be more strict on squadrons only. ,This is a quote from Ruddelman, before your call to arms post an doggles, who asked me to join ! since i was flying red ,and you needed red .To make a long story short i think i brought 8 to 10 red non clan members . in a little over a day, For the start of your project ,which i thought was great !! and try to bring more in every week. i have read every post on this thread!. So after all i did ,after seeing ruddelmans post =slap in the face . cold slap what ever you want to call it. Was not trying to start anything but trying to defend players who fly well together, that are not in a clan=== but like i was told battlefeld 3 --------- that way,= thats what is just wrong an rude. I will not post on this subject again, i,m 51 so not a kid! or trouble maker ,you get what you give !

Whoa whoa, how did I get dragged into this mudslinging contest?

I haven't said anything negative towards anybody (in this thread, anways :D )

I took the post regarding lone wolves to mean people who just want to join the server and not fly with anyone else. Just go up as a one plane sortie and mess around.

I think Wolverine has it right. Dogfight servers generally lack organization and teamwork, and I think 5./JG27 have been trying to provide a series of fun, historical missions with coordination and teamwork.

[5./JG27.Farber]

We do not encourage lone wolves, but for sake of pulling the community together, allowed it this time. Next campaign will be more strict on squadrons only. ,This is a quote from Ruddelman, before your call to arms post an doggles, who asked me to join ! since i was flying red ,and you needed red .To make a long story short i think i brought 8 to 10 red non clan members . in a little over a day, For the start of your project ,which i thought was great !! and try to bring more in every week. i have read every post on this thread!. So after all i did ,after seeing ruddelmans post =slap in the face . cold slap what ever you want to call it. Was not trying to start anything but trying to defend players who fly well together, that are not in a clan=== but like i was told battlefeld 3 --------- that way,= thats what is just wrong an rude. I will not post on this subject again, i,m 51 so not a kid! or trouble maker ,you get what you give !


Yes he was wrong and should apologize. Ive already cleared up this matter. So lets drop it and get this campaign finished.

[CaptainDoggles]

This is a sad turn of events.

[jojovtx]

What I see here is a bunch of over reacting and some terribly confused individuals. All you have to look at is the introduction portion of the very first post. Anything else is off base, speculation, and misunderstanding.

5./JG27 & 9./ZG26 Presents:


Battle of Britain Multi squad Campaign STARTS 30th October and runs every sunday at 21:00 CET (15:00 Eastern) for four weeks.

Version will be latest beta patch 2 plus hotfix.

Introduction:

We are looking for Squadrons and Staffeln to take part in our proposed BoB MS Campaign. If you are not part of a Squadron try approaching one to fly with, passwords will only be given to Squadron commanders. We will start at Kanalkampf and run through Adlertag, Adlerangriff and Blitz. We aim to run this campaign over four weeks, one mission per week. We want a historical atmosphere not a bunch of lone wolfs trying to get as many kills as possible! If you don’t take enough fuel or waste your ammo there is no respawning, you land, the end!




So it is plain to see that non squadron affiliated pilots are welcome yet encouraged to sign on with a participating squadron for the event. This does not indicate official recognition of said person becoming a member of said squadron.

It's a shame that within five or less posts this community project has devolved into an online flame war resulting in a resignation and ultimately a black mark on this project. Let's please use some manner of restraint while clearing up misunderstandings prior to assuming personal insults were meant. We have over 40 pages of positive team and community building, let's not have five posts trash it gentlemen.

We are simply trying to provide a community based, teamwork oriented, historically plausible series of missions that the participating pilots can get a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment from outside of your traditional dogfight servers. Simple, no need to be up in arms about any misunderstandings or perceived insults.

Rudelman, I hate to see you go anywhere especially under such frivolous conditions. Please reconsider your resignation and let's hash this out over comms or our in house forums.

Good day gentlemen,
Klein out.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Well said Klein.

[l3uLLDoZeR]

Grown men, acting like little kids.
I wouldn't be trying to alienate much of the player base, it's kinda small at the moment!

[Sven]

So it is plain to see that non squadron affiliated pilots are welcome yet encouraged to sign on with a participating squadron for the event. This does not indicate official recognition of said person becoming a member of said squadron.

That's our final answer to this situation, nothing has changed. Every individual which participated in the last missions can do so in the exact same way in the future.

[5./JG27.Farber]

If the campaign isn't on this sunday its because someone (wonder who?) has at the very least shutdown our server... We will have to wait and see.

[JG52Uther]

If the campaign isn't on this sunday its because someone (wonder who?) has at the very least shutdown our server... We will have to wait and see.

:(

[CaptainDoggles]

Well said Klein.

Let's not let Cheesehawk and his problems get in the way in this campaign, he has caused enough trouble as it is.



That's our final answer to this situation, nothing has changed. Every individual which participated in the last missions can do so in the exact same way in the future.

If the campaign isn't on this sunday its because someone (wonder who?) has at the very least shutdown our server... We will have to wait and see.

Fellas this really isn't the place for these kinds of messages.

[5./JG27.Farber]

.

[5./JG27.Farber]

If you want to start mudslinging in public, I'd be down with that. Read post in your forums as to the server. I was gone all day yesterday (Vegas) and haven't touched it. I've kept silent about your cursing of squads and general "I'm going to do things this way, and the community can Kiss my #$#" attitude, but if you want to go there.....

Well the drop box, which earlier was gone, is now resyncing every folder... and its true I do wonder who took our server down? :-P


Fellas this really isn't the place for these kinds of messages.

No its not, Rudelmann is obviously very angry about something and has been this last week or so... Ive asked him whats wrong many times but he shrugs it off. :confused:

[5./JG27.Farber]

Never pointed fingers. Just wondered.

Hopefully I can get the campaign going for sunday...

[klem]

Hope its all cooled down now guys. JG27 are doing a great job, which very few other people are able to do, to bring us a campaign/scenario, call it what you like. They are breaking new ground and its coming along just fine.

If you'll allow me my 2p...

The current 'issue' has been over how to handle individuals who are not part of a CoD Squad. Its clear from all the posts that no-one wants players jumping on and doing whatever they like, we all want co-operation.

There have been many good intentions towards achieving this and one way was thought to have only Squads that are used to working as a unit. However, I think we all know now that is very limiting and excludes a lot of good guys who have just as much to bring to the party - and they have been. They are happy to form a temporary unit or join on with another unit - and they have been.

So, that seems to be sorted now for this campaign. Whatever the next one is like I hope there'll be similar helpful arrangements. We need as many of the online players as possible if these are to be successful, they are a different animal to Squad vs Squad wars.

Looking forward to Sunday.

[_79_dev]

What is going on in here??? Guys stop acting like kids... Is is getting really sad here...

[5./JG27.Farber]

Hope its all cooled down now guys. JG27 are doing a great job, which very few other people are able to do, to bring us a campaign/scenario, call it what you like. They are breaking new ground and its coming along just fine.

If you'll allow me my 2p...

The current 'issue' has been over how to handle individuals who are not part of a CoD Squad. Its clear from all the posts that no-one wants players jumping on and doing whatever they like, we all want co-operation.

There have been many good intentions towards achieving this and one way was thought to have only Squads that are used to working as a unit. However, I think we all know now that is very limiting and excludes a lot of good guys who have just as much to bring to the party - and they have been. They are happy to form a temporary unit or join on with another unit - and they have been.

So, that seems to be sorted now for this campaign. Whatever the next one is like I hope there'll be similar helpful arrangements. We need as many of the online players as possible if these are to be successful, they are a different animal to Squad vs Squad wars.

Looking forward to Sunday.


Hopefully I will have picked up the pieces for everyone to run sunday, if not - the week after... It will have to be played by ear Im afraid. Spoke to Sniper and JTdawg over at ATAG, they were really nice gentlemen.


What is going on in here??? Guys stop acting like kids... Is is getting really sad here...

Dont worry Dev, its all gonna come right :)

[Osprey]

I'm not going to get involved other than to get as many of my chaps to participate as possible. No.501 also welcomes other pilots, Wolverine has been a pleasure to fly with for the past missions.

This Sunday I am going to watch a football match (Leicester vs Crystal Palace) where I hope the Palace give Leicester a right hiding, you're not interested in that, but the point is I have to travel and will be cutting it fine for the start. In the event I don't make it in time my #2 Gromic will command (or I'll get someone else).

Hope you chaps sort it all out.

[JTDawg]

I know i said i wouldn't post on this thread again, but was torn after speaking with 5./JG27.Farber. It really showed his character. :grin: In other words he impressed me! i've stood behind this concept since i found out about it. An stand fully behind this campainge, and any future ones Which i hope continue. GREAT JOB ! SALUTE to all that have been involved in this project. will be there sunday as always ! thanks for your time

[Porsche]

No one shut the server down... My internet connection went down. Hence the reason the server was down. I am going to add my two cents in here. This is a game. Everyone here is to have a good time. I always considered this community to be on the more mature side. I do not like to see drama queen crap going on on the forums. Any discussion between units should be done in private and not aired out on the forums. Dam is this junior high? With that said it is a game and lets all have a good time with it. After all we are all here because we love this flight Sim. Lets all work together to make it a more enjoyable experience.

[5./JG27.Farber]

No one shut the server down... My internet connection went down. Hence the reason the server was down. I am going to add my two cents in here. This is a game. Everyone here is to have a good time. I always considered this community to be on the more mature side. I do not like to see drama queen crap going on on the forums. Any discussion between units should be done in private and not aired out on the forums. Dam is this junior high? With that said it is a game and lets all have a good time with it. After all we are all here because we love this flight Sim. Lets all work together to make it a more enjoyable experience.

True storey my old friend, dont worry everythings fine. Campaign will run this sunday, standby for for late briefs everyone... :-P

[Osprey]

Farber, could I ask that you also send the brief to Gromic please since I may not make it in time for the start, but hopefully I will.

Thanks.

[5./JG27.Farber]

RED:


The blasted Jerrys have changed tactic on us and not a moment too soon! They've switched targets to our industrial heartlands. I know you're all very tired and your doing a splendid job but we cant take a breather. Were expecting a big raid anytime soon. Find those bombers!


Weather:

Fair with cloud at 500m's.

Hornchurch F13 - Spitfires
69GIAP

Gravesend G11 - Hurricanes
501

Eastchurch J11 - Spitfires
ATAG

Croydon C11 - Hurricanes/Spitfires
Syndicate

Hawkinge L8 Hurricanes
104th





=================================================





BLUE:


Ob.d.L. has devised a new stratergy and ordered bombing of key industrial locations around England.

Its a long flight to London so make sure you have plenty of fuel and keep an eye on the guage!

Weather:

Fair with cloud at 500m's.



Calais Marck R7 -Bf109's/Bf110's
II./JG5
9./ZG26

Coquelles Q6 - Bf109's
Stab JG52

Inglevert Q6 - Bf109's
IIIJG27

Audembert P5 - Bf109's
JG5

Marquise West T5 - Bf109's
5./JG27

Guines Q5 - Bf109's
MK

[klem]

<cough> 56RAF ?? <cough>

We should have several pilots on tonight.

Perhaps you can give us Rotol Hurricanes at Kenley or Biggin Hill??

[klem]

Guys, I believe we'll have our "independent" TS3 Server available again tonight. I have asked 56RAF_Dutch to confirm in here today and the IP which should be as last week.

It is structured in the same way as ATAG so it should be familiar to all.

I recommend we all use it (blues and reds) to avoid fragmented comms.

If you want a different structure please say so.

[5./JG27.Farber]

<cough> 56RAF ?? <cough>

We should have several pilots on tonight.

Perhaps you can give us Rotol Hurricanes at Kenley or Biggin Hill??

Sorry I knew something was missing, yes you can have either, they are both in D10 and have Spits and Hurri's respectively. For this very reason next time it will be done on our forum with a red and a blue area. All briefs pre made etc.

Guys, I believe we'll have our "independent" TS3 Server available again tonight. I have asked 56RAF_Dutch to confirm in here today and the IP which should be as last week.

It is structured in the same way as ATAG so it should be familiar to all.

I recommend we all use it (blues and reds) to avoid fragmented comms.

If you want a different structure please say so.

Can you PM me the address, in the rush last time I forgot to book mark it.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Right, because of CTD's, we wont be using the spawn blocking. So I'll leave it on your honour to use only one life fairly. No landing and respawning for fuel or ammo. If you CTD early on, pair up with another CTD'er and take off again. If youve had some action and you CTD, thats it your gone - finished.


RED:


The blasted Jerrys have changed tactic on us and not a moment too soon! They've switched targets to our industrial heartlands. I know you're all very tired and your doing a splendid job but we cant take a breather. Were expecting a big raid anytime soon. Find those bombers!


Weather:

Fair with cloud at 500m's.

Hornchurch F13 - Spitfires
69GIAP

Gravesend G11 - Hurricanes
501

Eastchurch J11 - Spitfires
ATAG

Croydon C11 - Hurricanes/Spitfires
Syndicate

Hawkinge L8 Hurricanes
104th

RED BRIEFING:

Patrol London and South East Coast. Find the Bombers.



=================================================





BLUE:


Ob.d.L. has devised a new stratergy and ordered bombing of key industrial locations around England.

Its a long flight to London so make sure you have plenty of fuel and keep an eye on the guage!

Weather:

Fair with cloud at 500m's.



Calais Marck R7 -Bf109's/Bf110's
II./JG5
9./ZG26

Coquelles Q6 - Bf109's
Stab JG52

Inglevert Q6 - Bf109's
IIIJG27

Audembert P5 - Bf109's
JG5

Marquise West T5 - Bf109's
5./JG27

Guines Q5 - Bf109's
MK


=======================================


Blue briefing: if you haven't recieved it via PM, PM me or jump on out TS3, or add me on Steam.

All Password. If you havenet recieved the PW by PM here, ask at ATAG or 56 RAF TS3 before the mission.

[ATAG_Dutch]

'hi all,

The independant TS3 server is up again.
I don't know if we are going to use it tonight, but it is there.

teamspeak.ukatc.com
ip address: 77.251.29.224

grtz

56RAF_Dutch'


Just in case anyone missed it in the ATAG thread.

(Not the same Dutch, btw! :) )

[56RAF_Witch]

Hi,

Just to make sure we all don't miss each other tonight, can our "Radar" give us any more info on any Bombers that might be up, rather than just fighters, also where in London they might be headed for, it's an awfully big place!

Cheers,

Witch

[5./JG27.Farber]

take the brief quite leterally and you will find us ;)

I hope they get some sort of raday working soon. I was laying in bed last night thinking of stuff and the AI, calls out enemy positions, so next time round Im thinking of implementing anson and storch (bf108? stand in) aircraft on roaming patrols...

[5./JG27.Farber]

Sorry about the clouds :oops:

Everything was fairley smooth untill we got to manston where out of 8 flyers two had CTD. I got tangled with the spits and hurricanes attack the He111's. FPS dropped to nothing then frooze... I alt tabbed out and the game started running again. I tried to go back in but it was all distorted and then my plane crashed...

[JG52Uther]

Krupi couldn't get in. Me and Adonys took off, but found no bombers over the rendevous.Saw 3 ghost dots near the French coast that disappeared when we got closer., so we flew to London, seeing nothing, and then Adonys CTD.I kept going, was about to call in quits as I thought maybe the server had crashed and I was on my own,then saw and jumped, a Hurri, got hit by flak i think as my wing was damaged, and bailed.

[bw_wolverine]

Yeah, as soon as I found the bombers flying over the estuary, the clouds dropped my frames and it was inevitable with the addition of all the flak going off. Crashed out within sight of a group.

Anyway, a good experience overall! Thank you, Farber and everyone else who worked to put this together. It was a lot of fun. If nothing else, the formation flying was great to see and be a part of :)

[JG5_emil]

Three JG5 bounced a large formation of Spits over the estuary. We made several passes and it was looking like a good fight was going to be had.

Saddly two of us CTD and we spent the rest of the night ranting to each other about the crap state of this game!!

Our constructive critisism so far is that we think the bombers should be higher as 2-3000 seems very low for an attack by HE-111 over London.

[JTDawg]

Great fun ,great campainge! SULUTE!!!!! good job to all involved, keep up the great work, looking foreward to the next one. thats what this game is about thanks

[klem]

Thanks guys for a really good first campaign. Some glitches but it worked through ok in the end.

We are definitely suffering the memory leak but I managed to get down winchester before it crashed.

The Comms worked out well. It seems the Leaders' planning went ok too although I wasn't involved in that. Our boss 56RAF_Witch was feeding us info from other leaders as well as us watching the radar reports and eventually we caught up with the He111s as they closed on London. I think we got a few.

Shame we did not have all units on comms but it worked out ok.

Looking forward to the next one with all the lessons learned :)

[Sven]

I really get a smile on my face reading your experiences in this short campaign.

Hopefully when CoD is stable again we can do something bigger, somewhat more complex and better organised.
I was really surprised by the number of people who participated in this, looks like it can only get better! :grin:

S!

Homuth.

[jg27_mc]

How do I sign up for the upcoming events?

Regards.

[ATAG_Snapper]

My After Action Report I filed with my Group. Fantastic job, chaps!

Well, I quite enjoyed that!

Thanks to Bliss and Watchman bouncing all about Teamspeak we got ourselves spawned in our Spits at Eastchurch and all on the same TS channel -- no small feat! Kudos to Shrivey for putting on today's Squad Leader Headdress and leading the rest of us shrinking violets out to the airfield. Saw one or two ignominious explosions while taxiing out, but I trust everyone was able to respawn quickly.

Take off was performed smoothly and we all managed to keep Shrivey in sight using our new exclusive-to-ATAG formation which is a carefully laid out pattern of echelon left/line astern/vic/finger four/line abreast effectively designed to jam the enemy's TS Channels with a continuous chorus of "WTF's???". As Shrivey smartly led us out in a fast climb towards the Thames Estuary, he assiduously called out throttle and prop percentages, with several of us assiduously calling out "Uh, what's that in boost and rpm's, please?". Hey, we all got there, didn't we.

Suddenly everyone is calling out "Break, break, break! 109's!!! Two of 'em!". With great precision and consummate skill ol' Snapper slams his Spit into a panicked....er....carefully practised high-speed stall, the absolute absence of any control surface coordination designed to throw off the aim of the most determined experten Luftwaffe ace. It worked!! Not only did I lose any 109's, but I also managed to lose my entire squadron!!!! Adeptly regaining control of my spinning Spit after a brief 10,0000 foot plunge, I set course towards London.

Five minutes later as I realized the Estuary was now the North Sea, I swung about 180 degrees - making a mental note to get my obviously defective compass changed at first op. Bloody erks. Faintly I can hear the excited cries of my squadmates engaging an escorted bomber stream. (Actually, it wasn't faint at all -- it just sounds good.) pouring the coals to my long-suffering Merlin, I hasten to join the fray. Anguished cries of "109 on my 6!!", "I'm taking hits!", "I've just had a f'ing launcher crash!" fill my headphones. Ahead I see the telltale bursts of black AA to mark the location of the ensuing dogfight. Suddenly, I see a small dark shape against the white cloud behind it. I positively identify it as a Junkers/Heinkel/Dornier-thingy and "I'm going for it boys!"

As I close the J/H/T-thingy grows in my sights, and I push the firing button as I flash by. Having delivered a stunning 1/20 second burst on its left wingtip, I swing around for another pass. Recovering from my second high speed stall of the day, I pick up my terrified victim making a desperate attempt to flee my murderous assault. Licking my dry lips in grim anticipation, I curve in behind him -- his wingspan perfectly framed within the range bars of my illuminated reflector sight. "DIE, YOU NAZI SCHWEINHUNDT!!!!" I scream as I push the firing button once again. And.......nothing. Screen freeze. Gentlemen: this SUCKS!!!!!

Oh well. It was fun, nonetheless. Hopefully the next beta will get these launcher.exe failures resolved. Then we'll get 'em!

[klem]

How do I sign up for the upcoming events?

Regards.

Watch this space... or perhaps one titled "2nd Multisquad Campaign Battle of Britain" - or similar - it will probably take a few weeks for Jg27 (++ ?) to put the next one together.

Then just come here for the info and instructions :)

If you belong to a Squad I'm sure they'll be welcomed with open arms as Blues were down on historical numbers vs the Reds. If you're a single you'll find a place with others on the night.

[jg27_mc]

Watch this space... or perhaps one titled "2nd Multisquad Campaign Battle of Britain" - or similar - it will probably take a few weeks for Jg27 (++ ?) to put the next one together.

Then just come here for the info and instructions :)

If you belong to a Squad I'm sure they'll be welcomed with open arms as Blues were down on historical numbers vs the Reds. If you're a single you'll find a place with others on the night.

Thks for the feedback.

My squad is currently inactive regarding CloD.

Regards.

[56RAF_Witch]

Hi Gents,

Thanks to 5.JG27 for hosting these events, I really hope the game's problem's, CTD's etc, are fixed soon.... :(

I'd like to add/suggest some points that may be helpfull for any future events.

There's quite a few people about that have been involved with events for the last 10 years or so, in Aces High, Air Warrior and the like. For us it's easy to see where 5.JG27 want to get to, and, hopefully, we can help them get there :)

Previous event procedures that have worked really well go along the following lines, and I "suggest" these ideas here so that the responsibility for events is shared, to make it easier for all those involved, rather than one or a few people doing too much work, and, it means that everyone's aware of just what exactly the event is all about. You can also add the possibility of one side "winning" by achieving certain aims or scores!

The first thing that needs to be done is a small group of people get together and agree the "Rules" of the event. This might sound a bit formal but it's THE most important thing to do, by making rules you can make sure that there is;
Gameplay - everyone should get into a fight and have fun.
Fairness - correct balance of sides remembering gameplay.
Historical accuracy - correct plane-set and accurate tactic's, but you have to ensure gameplay and fairness, i.e. an accurate pearl Harbour event would be boring for the USAAF side!
So, the rules are to ensure all the above in the right amounts!

Another important part of this initial meeting is to set up the Command Structure for each side, there's usually a commander for each side and he has 1 assistant, an XO, then each unit must have 2 leaders, a Unit commander and his XO. This, and the other rules, all leads into....
which airfields are in use
What and how many of each plane type will be used
which "historical units" are going to be replicated
how everyone registers
how many people will play each side
how many people are in each unit

Now, if you're going to allow "walkons", we come to the most important person. Walkons are people who are going to turn up to fly without pre-registering. They are usually assigned a empty plane slot, if the registered people don't turn up through illness or have to go shopping with the missus!

These walkons are held in a "place" for each side they are then "shepherded" by one person, the "walkon marshall", the walkons are TOLD where the spare seats are, so they are assigned a plane, i.e. they're not allowed to do what they want, they stick with the overall plan as part of a unit. (much as we've already done but a bit more controlled to maintain agreed numbers for each side).

This all easily done, in the past I've been involved with events that regularly had 200 people in them and once we had 380 planes in the air at once!!

By agreeing the rules it also allows the map/mission makers to know exactly what needs to be included, and what doesn't! It also allows the maps to be written sooner and tested to make sure everything works as planned, such as time of day, weather, clouds etc.

The Rules also allows for the side CO, his XO and the unit commanders and XO's to make a plan, they know the rules = restrictions, their resources = the unit sizes, how many pilots and which airfields are available, which targets they're attacking or defending and the scoring system if there is one:)

This plan can then be given to everyone who is assigned to that event "unit", this means everyone knows there is a plan and that the plan is made in plenty of time before the event, not in the last 20 minutes before the start time!!! As in real life it allows people time to practice a new skill, such as dive bombing or carrier landing!

I would say the time frame for all of this is about a month, remember, you have to decide a lot of this before you advertise the event with exactly how many places there are for people to register for, on each side, in each plane type.

Once CO's and XO's are in place, the plan discussions start, these can be lengthy (plenty of friendly arguments about tactic's - which is why the rules are important), then all the plans have to be sent to every pilot in each unit.

Lastly, the rules can make sure everyone understands the start time, and they have to ready well before then, it is common to have everyone in the passworded server an hour before the Take-Off time, plus, with more "control" you can have staggered take-off times, often it's bombers that need to be allowed to take off before any fighters, as in real life!

That's about all I can suggest at the moment. Hopefully some of it will be usefull to make sure the events continue and that they get better and better.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Hi Gents,

Thanks to 5.JG27 for hosting these events, I really hope the game's problem's, CTD's etc, are fixed soon.... :(

I'd like to add/suggest some points that may be helpfull for any future events.

There's quite a few people about that have been involved with events for the last 10 years or so, in Aces High, Air Warrior and the like. For us it's easy to see where 5.JG27 want to get to, and, hopefully, we can help them get there :)

Previous event procedures that have worked really well go along the following lines, and I "suggest" these ideas here so that the responsibility for events is shared, to make it easier for all those involved, rather than one or a few people doing too much work, and, it means that everyone's aware of just what exactly the event is all about. You can also add the possibility of one side "winning" by achieving certain aims or scores!

Indeed this sounds good but currently without stats is unachievable. I know of at least three seperate stat systems in the making. We will know more later.



The first thing that needs to be done is a small group of people get together and agree the "Rules" of the event. This might sound a bit formal but it's THE most important thing to do, by making rules you can make sure that there is;
Gameplay - everyone should get into a fight and have fun.
Fairness - correct balance of sides remembering gameplay.
Historical accuracy - correct plane-set and accurate tactic's, but you have to ensure gameplay and fairness, i.e. an accurate pearl Harbour event would be boring for the USAAF side!
So, the rules are to ensure all the above in the right amounts!

Agreed and this test run was also to establish who these people might be.



Another important part of this initial meeting is to set up the Command Structure for each side, there's usually a commander for each side and he has 1 assistant, an XO, then each unit must have 2 leaders, a Unit commander and his XO. This, and the other rules, all leads into....
which airfields are in use
What and how many of each plane type will be used
which "historical units" are going to be replicated
how everyone registers
how many people will play each side
how many people are in each unit

Right but now we are talking really about the set up. Command points to spend or not, allocated historical orders of battle etc.. There are a few different ways of doing it with varying amounts of work.



Now, if you're going to allow "walkons", we come to the most important person. Walkons are people who are going to turn up to fly without pre-registering. They are usually assigned a empty plane slot, if the registered people don't turn up through illness or have to go shopping with the missus!

These walkons are held in a "place" for each side they are then "shepherded" by one person, the "walkon marshall", the walkons are TOLD where the spare seats are, so they are assigned a plane, i.e. they're not allowed to do what they want, they stick with the overall plan as part of a unit. (much as we've already done but a bit more controlled to maintain agreed numbers for each side).

This all easily done, in the past I've been involved with events that regularly had 200 people in them and once we had 380 planes in the air at once!!

I dislkie the idea for one reason, it means not everyone can fly. I asked specifically in the beginning for total number of pilots merely so I could disregard it and take the average... Because we cant all attend all the time.



By agreeing the rules it also allows the map/mission makers to know exactly what needs to be included, and what doesn't! It also allows the maps to be written sooner and tested to make sure everything works as planned, such as time of day, weather, clouds etc.

One of the things Im thinking of next time is the red or blue commander gives me the AI bomber flight as a mission file to be loaded into the mission via script. This way I can recieve both sides missions and stay neutral. This would also relieve us of time as you stated earlier and allow others to be more involved. Obviously this will depend on which set up we choose for the future.


The Rules also allows for the side CO, his XO and the unit commanders and XO's to make a plan, they know the rules = restrictions, their resources = the unit sizes, how many pilots and which airfields are available, which targets they're attacking or defending and the scoring system if there is one:)

This plan can then be given to everyone who is assigned to that event "unit", this means everyone knows there is a plan and that the plan is made in plenty of time before the event, not in the last 20 minutes before the start time!!! As in real life it allows people time to practice a new skill, such as dive bombing or carrier landing!

Yes and the easst way for this (which is currently under developement on our forums) is a permission protected area for red/blue respectively...



I would say the time frame for all of this is about a month, remember, you have to decide a lot of this before you advertise the event with exactly how many places there are for people to register for, on each side, in each plane type.

Yes that reasonable, two weeks was used this time as the whole thing was preset, were it not for a few problems it would have been smoother.


Once CO's and XO's are in place, the plan discussions start, these can be lengthy (plenty of friendly arguments about tactic's - which is why the rules are important), then all the plans have to be sent to every pilot in each unit.

If it was done on one forum (maybe by unit commanders talking with an over all commander) this would not be a problem. The plans could then be displayed there "for red/blue eyes only or taking to each units forum...


Lastly, the rules can make sure everyone understands the start time, and they have to ready well before then, it is common to have everyone in the passworded server an hour before the Take-Off time, plus, with more "control" you can have staggered take-off times, often it's bombers that need to be allowed to take off before any fighters, as in real life!

Agreed however with the CTD's you probly wouldn't be able to last an hour on the menu :)

Its certainly something would do in future.


That's about all I can suggest at the moment. Hopefully some of it will be usefull to make sure the events continue and that they get better and better.

Thank you for you kind, well laid out suggestions, if we need any ideas we will be sure to put it to the online community. I may be very well posting some conundrums here on 1c for everyones views.

As soon as the next patch is out and the CTD's are pretty much gone and we have stats implemented, we will run another campaign!

Thanks everyone for your support, patience and participation.

S!

5./JG27 & 9./ZG26

[CaptainDoggles]

Good campaign guys, sadly I missed the final mission due to RL commitments but I enjoyed the previous missions.

I think going forward it would be fun to move into pseudo-historical territory and allow each side to plan their own missions, perhaps assigning points at a team level, based on targets protected/destroyed.

[Sven]

I can already answer that with a no Doggles. We like to play a scenario that happened in the past, not what could have happened or what people like to do. That's one thing we've always tried to achieve in our missions and previous campaigns and we get most satisfaction and enjoyment out of it. 100 % realism is of course not achievable but when we can, we implement it.


That does not mean we're not interested in pseudo-histocial campaigns but they will not be made by us.

[CaptainDoggles]

I can already answer that with a no Doggles. We like to play a scenario that happened in the past, not what could have happened or what people like to do. That's one thing we've always tried to achieve in our missions and previous campaigns and we get most satisfaction and enjoyment out of it. 100 % realism is of course not achievable but when we can, we implement it.


That does not mean we're not interested in pseudo-histocial campaigns but they will not be made by us.

Interesting perspective. What happens when you run a historical campaign and the outcome isn't historical? e.g. the Dieppe raid is actually successful, or the Allies don't actually get away from Dunkerque?

Do you declare the campaign to be a failure?

Do you set up the initial conditions so that the outcome is a foregone conclusion?

Understand I am not advocating a "secret weapons of the luftwaffe" campaign.

[Sven]

We give you an historical start and objectives which were targeted historically, you are to achieve the goals the Oberkommando der Luftwaffe has ordered your JG to do.

The next mission does not take your failure/success into account, it bases itself on what happened historically.

Then there are people who say, but what's the use of achieving the goal then?
Well, maybe you want to experience what the RAF/Luftwaffe did that day?

Our goal is to achieve fun, realism and teamplay. I don't really care who actually wins the campaign. You can merely draw conclusions on how close you performed to the real deal.

Obviously we can't know everything to the detail what happened back then, but we try to get a close as possible, feedback is of course more then welcome, especially when it comes to RAF activities.;)

--

I know ATAG got stats running so a campaign where mission results matter for the next mission isn't too far away I guess.


Understand I am not advocating a "secret weapons of the luftwaffe" campaign.

Yes I know what you mean.

[CaptainDoggles]

Then there are people who say, but what's the use of achieving the goal then?

I just think campaigns like this are more engaging; pilots get a chance to feel like their individual actions actually have an impact (or more of an impact) on the outcome of the mission.

My opinion is that if it doesn't matter what we do during the mission it might as well be a regular dogfight furball, that's all. :cool:

[SEE]

Would it be possible for future missions to tally the losses incurred?

I really enjoyed the last mission but as players drop out of the server (for various reasons) I found myself the sole remaining Spit from the flight. In those instances should a player try and join another flight and jump into their TS channel?

[5./JG27.Farber]

Would it be possible for future missions to tally the losses incurred?

I really enjoyed the last mission but as players drop out of the server (for various reasons) I found myself the sole remaining Spit from the flight. In those instances should a player try and join another flight and jump into their TS channel?

Same thing happened to me 3 times... Due to CTD's.

I tried forming with other Schwarm in my Staffel. Thats one of the disadvantages of not being in your own teamspeak, you really need whispers as more than 4 in a channel, (I find) is overcrowded.




Doggles the way I see it is, you can start with a historical setup iniatially and see how you could do better with what youve got which has a knock on effect.

OR

You can start each mission the same way but plan it differently

OR

You can do it pretty much as it was done.


Each one has good points and bad points. Option 1 quickley moves away from a historical footing and is more complicated to run and keep track of because it doesnt let you have as much in place for the long run. Option two allows participation to a greater degree and keeps more historical factors, (order of battle etc). Option 3 allows you to have the entire thing mapped out from the start and is easist to run but by comparison to the others is probley the least exciting and pretty much scripted. So as you can see it really depends on a few things first ;)

[klem]

Historical setups are good for two reasons. One is, we'd all like to 'be there' and the other is it may not work out in line with the historical outcome so you have a chance to 'make a difference'. In Aces High we once (only once!) lost the Battle of Britain! That prospect gives the LW guys hope for a victory.

I takes time to set these up and with say a four or six frame campaign, thats about four weeks planning/registration plus up to six weeks running, then a break for the organisers, you are soon through a three month window. (And putting together three or four of these campaigns a year is hard going for the guys doing most of the work.) So there are enough historical missions to see you through a couple of years, after which you'll be happy to re-run them.

Of course a theoretical campaign can be thrown in and with the limited era of 1939-1941 which would exhaust the CoD planeset it may become necessary but don't forget there were several notable days in the BoB that could be re-created instead of, say, a generic "channel convoy attacks" mission and there was also the aspect of the RAF attacking the LW not to mention the Battle for France.

It should also be possible to work out who 'won'. Say a percentage of RAF fields/Radars put out of action, Ships sunk or the extent of pilot losses indicating theoretical inability to continue (once the game is stable!) which is where the ground rules come in.

[Osprey]

Having done all the seasons of USL since it started (champs in Open Pit 2007, champs in Closed Pit in 2011 :D ) I can feel well placed on commenting that the whole 're-enactment' is the best way to do it. If you want competitive measurement over a season, squad on squad, then enter the USL because you will get that. You will plan and get to win one of the days of the BOB, or have the Japs win at Truk etc. BUT, it is not the same, it's a battle and not a war.

Given that we all have hindsight and don't have the numbers/scaling then it's not really possible to have a competitive campaign, not one that could be considered fair anyway, and if it were then by default it would be unrealistic. I think we could have a bunch of stats produced though, per player/per squadron/per side which would give us some nice talking points as we move through, and I believe that this is coming. Otherwise you are looking at limiting resources such as planes and pilots, bombing factories and supplies in a big war scenario with forces moving on the ground - it's all too much work, and not really possible with the game the way it is presently designed. Maybe one day there will be a MMO war style with Tanks and FPS on the ground whilst we fly above - but that's a bit of a dream :D

Forgive my rambling, I'm in bed on a laptop with a stinking cold incapable of rational thought or coherence and without any stamina either :( That's why I missed Sunday's flight.

[Untamo]

S!

Sorry for not attending the last mission. I was really hangovery after my friends birthday party :)

Thanks for the campaign, when shall we have more? :)

[klem]

Same thing happened to me 3 times... Due to CTD's.

I tried forming with other Schwarm in my Staffel. Thats one of the disadvantages of not being in your own teamspeak, you really need whispers as more than 4 in a channel, (I find) is overcrowded.

With respect, its important to have everyone (at least on one side) on the same TS server. Everyone from both sides also enables the Commanders of the opposing sides to talk to eachother on a special whisper if they need to co-ordinate the 'start' or sort out some problem.

The way to get the best out of TS is, predictably, discipline. There's a priority that needs to be observed.

You need to have one channel per Flight. These are easy to add.

Then, say you have a flight of 8 or 12 pilots....

Pairs must be established and have a 1 to 1 whisper setup. You can stretch this to a section of four but it can get noisy in a fight.
Pairs have priority over all comms if engaged in combat. Their chatter is confined to their whisper and does not affect others (who may also be doing the same on their whisper) but anyone transmitting on "Channel" can walk all over the pairs battle comms and mess up their fight so, one of the pair should call '[klem]: clear channel' if necessary. Everyone will understand why. A follow up with '[klem]: channel clear' is helpful. These are brief enough not to destroy another pair's comms.

Next comes the Channel comms which is the Flight commander's territory although during patrols anyone is likely to use it for lookout, reporting contacts, asking questions etc. until the commander calls for quiet. No 'chit-chat' :)

Lastly, Leaders' whisper. A way to exchange info with all the other Flight leaders for co-ordinating the battle. Again you may need to call 'clear channel' to prevent your guys walking all over your Leader comms.

And finally, if you do find yourself the only one of your Flight left you have the chance to join another Flight and jump into their channel which you could not do if they were on a different server.

[Osprey]

Allied were all in the same TS and set up with whispers between flight leaders. With reference to the problems a couple of weeks ago I would like for the next campaign to make the same TS server compulsory. 56 had set up neutral territory so there is no excuse. I don't really see much difference between a lonewolf and a 4, 6 or 8 ship squadron operating on their own tbh.

[jojovtx]

Maybe one day there will be a MMO war style with Tanks and FPS on the ground whilst we fly above - but that's a bit of a dream :D

http://www.battlegroundeurope.com/

It exists.

[klem]

................... I would like for the next campaign to make the same TS server compulsory................. I don't really see much difference between a lonewolf and a 4, 6 or 8 ship squadron operating on their own tbh.

I agree on the compulsiry TS. After all, they're all willing to fly on the same flight server and it re-enforces complete teamwork. What's the point otherwise? Also I would only issue the flight server password to the unit leaders via Teamspeak on the night in the leaders' briefing. They then pass it on to their flights so only those guys on TS can fly.

A lonewolf is a waste of resources. He may have a great time on the back of what everyone else has organised but he'd be much more useful as part of a unit with an objective and why would he bother to join such a campaign and fly on his own? He can do just as well on his own on ATAG or other regular servers.

The thing is, a number of people will have put at lot of work into creating as historical a scenario as they can. Lets all fly it that way.

[Osprey]

http://www.battlegroundeurope.com/

It exists.

Yes I know it exists but it's not exactly COD quality (well, the quality it will be)

[jojovtx]

Well unfortunately yes the Air battle makes me throw up in my mouth a little, but the rest is kinda cool. I do hope one day somebody with money, or maybe some teamwork and these little shops will combine forces to make a Battleground Europe type game with RO2 and CLoD type graphics and realism. Maybe one day while I'm still on this earth.

To stay on subject, yeah great campaign, some drama, and of course a buggered game but we persevered and had fun nonetheless. Can't wait for a patch and another go at this.

[5./JG27.Farber]

S!

Sorry for not attending the last mission. I was really hangovery after my friends birthday party :)

Thanks for the campaign, when shall we have more? :)

As I have said before, as soon as the CTD is resolved (according to last friday update it is resolved, we are waiting for beta etc) and stats - 5./JG27 &9./ZG26 will host again.


KLEM, I have no problem with another unit hosting comms, either for all or red/blue seperately... In fact I think its a good idea. Obviously that should all be well laid out as you mentioned and also take part in the setup phase of the campaign. I am well aware of the problems of comms, sometimes I fell like a telephone exchange! :-P
I'll have Schwarm 2 and Zerstorer coming though plus my own Schwarm!