Wolrd of Planes sees Luthier's "Squirm" comment and raises it with Korea!

[Mysticpuma]

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3381243/Korean_War_in_World_of_Planes.html#Post3381243

Blimey!

[nakedsquirrel]

IL2 is a sim. That's just an arcade game.

[furbs]

Yep, agreed its not a SIM.
But it does have FSAA.

[icarus]

IL2 is a sim. That's just an arcade game.

In your opinion, but not in fact. They are both flight simulators, but CoD is more accurate and realistic in many ways. Flight sim is not defined by accuracy etcTo be accurate, WoP is an arcade style flight simulator, CoD is not.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3381243/Korean_War_in_World_of_Planes.html#Post3381243

Blimey!
Nice graphics.. I see they got a beta tester sign up.. Anyone tried it yet?

[BRIGGBOY]

In your opinion, but not in fact. They are both flight simulators, but CoD is more accurate and realistic in many ways. Flight sim is not defined by accuracy etc..

well how can anything be classed a simulation if it is not defined by accuracy

[Rjel]

IL2 is a sim. That's just an arcade game.

To paraphrase an old expression "if it looks like a plane and flies like a plane, it must be a sim... game... whatever.

We all moan about the lack of sims. This sure looks pretty from the screenshots. I'd be thrilled if it flew like the old IL2. I've never had a sim before give me the sensation of flight like it does. I don't think CoD raises the bar much. Unless the F-86s have afterburners and the MiGs shoot laser beams I'd be willing to give it a try.

[JG52Krupi]

BYE BYE World of Planes


http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/AD-4 grab0002.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/AD-4 grab0003.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/F-82 grab0000.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/F-82 grab0001.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/La-9 grab0000.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/MiG-15 grab0000.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/MiG-15 grab0001.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/p-51 grab0001.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/p-51 grab0003.jpg

http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/PO-2 grab0000.jpg
http://files.games.1c.ru/il2pict/PO-2 grab0001.jpg

[icarus]

Ahh, I see how Icarus defines WoP as a simulation:

Definition of SIMULATION
1
: the act or process of simulating
2
: a sham object : counterfeit
3
a : the imitative representation of the functioning of one system or process by means of the functioning of another <a computer simulation of an industrial process> b : examination of a problem often not subject to direct experimentation by means of a simulating device

Creative use of definition #2!! Well played Icarus, well played...

LOL very funny. I had thought that too.

Computing Dictionary

simulation definition
simulation, system
Attempting to predict aspects of the behaviour of some system by creating an approximate (mathematical) model of it. This can be done by physical modelling, by writing a special-purpose computer program or using a more general simulation package, probably still aimed at a particular kind of simulation (e.g. structural engineering, fluid flow). Typical examples are aircraft flight simlators or electronic circuit simulators. A great many simulation languages exist, e.g. Simula.
See also emulation, Markov chain.
Usenet newsgroup: news:comp.simulation.
(1995-02-23)


The definition of sim only needs that there is an attempt at accuracy. WoP is a sim just a lesser attempt at accuracy that CoD.

Its not whether it is a sim as much as if it is a good sim. I agree CoD is more accurate in many ways and more immersive than WoP and a better sim, but by definition they are both sims.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Your dreams are not mine.

I think one has to realize that we all come from differing perspectives with respect to what we "want, wish for, dream about, etc...." We share products/community with:

- Movie makers
- Skinners
- Mission/Campaign Builders
- Online Server hosts
- Online War developers/hosts/organizers
- Modders
- Squads

MP is a movie maker. One of the most creative movie makers in the community. I can imagine he'd be excited about any product which would expand his palette.

While the many "guilds" associated with any simulation, add incalculable value to us - we that benefit from their efforts would be wise to understand that their agenda's may differ a bit from our own.

I don't see anything in World of Planes that attracts me in the least. I'm not holding my breath.

If you've experienced World of Tanks - which I actually have quite a bit of fun with, particularly now that I've learned how to manage my credit card transactions - you might agree with me that "Tanks ain't Planes".

I can't imagine what the average simmer who complains about small prices for add-on content will do when they actually run across this model. I limit myself to 29.95 per month for World of Tanks. When my money runs out - I stop playing.

Some people spend a whole lot more than that in a month.....

S!

Gunny

[ElAurens]

I wonder how jets are going to do on the postage stamp sized maps in that arcade shooter?

[icarus]

Your dreams are not mine.

I think one has to realize that we all come from differing perspectives with respect to what we "want, wish for, dream about, etc...." We share products/community with:

- Movie makers
- Skinners
- Mission/Campaign Builders
- Online Server hosts
- Online War developers/hosts/organizers
- Modders
- Squads

MP is a movie maker. One of the most creative movie makers in the community. I can imagine he'd be excited about any product which would expand his palette.

While the many "guilds" associated with any simulation, add incalculable value to us - we that benefit from their efforts would be wise to understand that their agenda's may differ a bit from our own.

I don't see anything in World of Planes that attracts me in the least. I'm not holding my breath.

If you've experienced World of Tanks - which I actually have quite a bit of fun with, particularly now that I've learned how to manage my credit card transactions - you might agree with me that "Tanks ain't Planes".

I can't imagine what the average simmer who complains about small prices for add-on content will do when they actually run across this model. I limit myself to 29.95 per month for World of Tanks. When my money runs out - I stop playing.

Some people spend a whole lot more than that in a month.....

S!

Gunny

I don't think World of Planes has anything to do with World of Tanks. IIIRC you are thinking of World of War Planes. World of Planes is Wings of Prey 2. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

[Dano]

What is this thread for other than to antagonise people and cause more pointless arguments?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

BYE BYE World of Planes
WOW!

Those 3D models are to die for! Anyword on when those will be put into CoD?

I know the answer is no.. but lie to me and say two weeks! ;)

That mustang.. man o man

[adonys]

Notice the inside-cockpit pilot 3D body (hands on throttle and stick, feet on rudder pedals)..

[pupo162]

Notice the inside-cockpit pilot 3D body (hands on throttle and stick, feet on rudder pedals)..

This is probably the biggest plus on my list for this game.

how i wish for it in COD :grin:

[Robotic Pope]

What is this thread for other than to antagonise people and cause more pointless arguments?

Because its interesting to fans of this genre.


If there is something important happening in another country. I can watch the news in my country and get some world news. I can talk about that news with my friends. I don't have to travel to that county to get their news and I don't have to find people (strangers) from that country to talk about it.

It is the snobs and trolls that cause the arguments not the subject.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

I don't think World of Planes has anything to do with World of Tanks. IIIRC you are thinking of World of War Planes. World of Planes is Wings of Prey 2. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

Thanks Icarus for correcting my misperception.

Now I have a poorer view toward it. Acrade FM, arcade DM, heck there are first person shooters with better ballistics than WoP.

If they ever actually create a simulation - that could be called a simulation then I'll certainly reconsider.

This does get old.

S!

Gunny

[Robotic Pope]

Thanks Icarus for correcting my misperception.

Now I have a poorer view toward it. Acrade FM, arcade DM, heck there are first person shooters with better ballistics than WoP.

If they ever actually create a simulation - that could be called a simulation then I'll certainly reconsider.

This does get old.

S!

Gunny

Yes it does get old. Please stop, you make no sense.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Yes it does get old. Please shut up!

Why did you just attack me? Did you not understand what I wrote?

I have purchased and paid for the WoP product. Yes, I have an opinion of it. I posted that opinion and you tell me to "Shut up"?

It's not like I post here all that much - and I cannot think of a time when I've been rude to you in the past.

Do you think that you are the only person entitled to their opinion here?

Look, I certainly don't go over to the WoP or "World of Planes" forums and extoll the virtues of CoD there.

Gunny

[ElAurens]

WOW!

Those 3D models are to die for! Anyword on when those will be put into CoD?

I know the answer is no.. but lie to me and say two weeks! ;)

That mustang.. man o man

Ace, those models were done by Luthier's RRG Studios for the now stillborn "Project Galba" Korean War sim based on the "Storm of War" engine.

I so want to fly a P 82 Twin Mustang.

[Robotic Pope]

Why did you just attack me? Did you not understand what I wrote?

I have purchased and paid for the WoP product. Yes, I have an opinion of it. I posted that opinion and you tell me to "Shut up"?

It's not like I post here all that much - and I cannot think of a time when I've been rude to you in the past.

Do you think that you are the only person entitled to their opinion here?

Look, I certainly don't go over to the WoP or "World of Planes" forums and extoll the virtues of CoD there.

Gunny

Shut up was stronger than I intended thats why I edited my post before you posted.

What you said made no sense as you confused World of planes as being made by the world of tanks developers. WoT is a more arcade type game with only external cameras. Gaijin's Wings of Prey and World of Planes on the other hand has detailed cockpits that realistly simulates dogfights while cutting down on the more mundane aspects that CloD excells in.
Thus the fact that WoP is made by Gaijin makes it more sim like for you and your view should have gone up not down.

[JG52Krupi]

Thus the fact that WoP is made by Gaijin makes it more sim like for you and your view should have gone up not down.

Incorrect...

Dude read up on world of planes, tiny maps etc... Gunslinger is entirely correct :D

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Robotic Pope - We aren't connecting and I guess whatever I write here has a good chance of being misunderstood, just like my first two posts.

1. I understood after comments made by other posters after my first post that World of Planes is not WoT. I made several comments unrelated to this issue in my post. Because I was in error in the last part of my first post, it does not necessarily invalidate the comments I made before that error.

2. I made the negative comments about Wings of Prey when I learned that World of Planes was developed by the same folks. I can understand how MysticPuma would welcome it as it has very creative graphics and he's the master of using many different types of content (other sims and games) in his movies.

3. You don't seem to understand what I have posted before, and the sequence of events.

So to make it clear. I don't like Wings of Prey based upon my personal and somewhat lengthy experience with the product. I don't hate it either - there are just better products for me.

Now, if World of Planes shows up as a high-end simulator - I'll buy it and most importantly use it.

For now, If I wanted a more arcade version of the air war in WWI, WW2 or Korea, i'd simply lower my settings in Rise of Flight or Cliffs of Dover, or even Il2.

S!

Gunny

[Robotic Pope]

Incorrect...

Dude read up on world of planes, tiny maps etc... Gunslinger is entirely correct :D

There are people that might not want to fly for hours to get to the action some people just don't have the time. You can still simulate some things very well while simplifying other areas, this does not suddenly make an "Arcade" game. I just can't understand why some people feel the need to constantly bash Gaijin. They are doing a fine job in getting new people intersted in the genre.


Robotic Pope - We aren't connecting and I guess whatever I write here has a good chance of being misunderstood, just like my first two posts.

1. I understood after comments made by other posters after my first post that World of Planes is not WoT. I made several comments unrelated to this issue in my post. Because I was in error in the last part of my first post, it does not necessarily invalidate the comments I made before that error.

2. I made the negative comments about Wings of Prey when I learned that World of Planes was developed by the same folks. I can understand how MysticPuma would welcome it as it has very creative graphics and he's the master of using many different types of content (other sims and games) in his movies.

3. You don't seem to understand what I have posted before, and the sequence of events.

So to make it clear. I don't like Wings of Prey based upon my personal and somewhat lengthy experience with the product. I don't hate it either - there are just better products for me.

Now, if World of Planes shows up as a high-end simulator - I'll buy it and most importantly use it.

For now, If I wanted a more arcade version of the air war in WWI, WW2 or Korea, i'd simply lower my settings in Rise of Flight or Cliffs of Dover, or even Il2.

S!

Gunny

No its ok, I do understand you. You like very acurate simulation games. Gaijin's games are not acurate enough for you, I understand that too.
But there is no need to look down on Gaijin just because they are catering for a different audience, some people here use the word Arcade as a kind of derision.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

There are people that might not want to fly for hours to get to the action some people just don't have the time. You can still simulate some things very well while simplifying other areas, this does not suddenly make an "Arcade" game. I just can't understand why some people feel the need to constantly bash Gaijin. They are doing a fine job in getting new people intersted in the genre.




No its ok, I do understand you. You like very acurate simulation games. Gaijin's games are not acurate enough for you, I understand that too.
But there is no need to look down on Gaijin just because they are catering for a different audience, some people here use the word Arcade as a kind of derision.

Ok, fair enough. I don't know if I'm looking down on Gajin, just wished for something more. I'm reminded to accept what's out there, versus be dissapointed at "what might have been" :)

That is the challenge I face all the time. Taking things for what they are and not being unhappy for "what they aren't".

See, I do like games - look I play World of Tanks and enjoy it - I've played BFBC2 and enjoyed it. I guess I'm just stuck on high fidelity with certain things. The WoT is fascinating to me becuase while the controls are very simple - the damage model and characteristics of the tanks themselves are complex. Very odd combination.

It's odd that I can accept "low-fidelity" in some things and not others. Weird now that I think about it.

I guess I like the FPS occasionally because at 53 years old - there's nothing that makes me feel younger and more vital than knife killing a 13 year old who just called me a noobz.

Thanks

Gunny

[hiro]

Not really,

All the oldschoolers here remember to SOW Korea add on. That was when Oleg was in the house. It seems that things have changed but Luthier is following in Oleg's footsteps.

So CLOD will have a Korea, and Pacific etc . . .




Gaijin probably has more money hence they can get their games out.

Gaijin is going a different way. Basically World of Planes is like aces high II or any arcade style games.

Basically when I mean arcade this means pilots don't worry about engine management, they don't deal with winds / air conditions, they don't have to worry about deflection.

Its action oriented and if your abuse energy management you really don't pay, you can climb into the sky forever . . .

in those games air combat principles will work and work very will vs one who doesn't use them, but the effects aren't as profound as they are in IL-2.

its fun but after awhile I don't get gratified.

Its like hunting, I do it because all the effort it takes to get into position for that right shot, its just exciting. Yes I can buy my meat in the store. But it tastes so much better if I chased it down and got it.

Same with Il-2, if I shoot someone down on realistic, dude I shot him down. I had to make it happen. Not just spray away and race like a jet and turn on a dime, press a few buttons for the patented move that auto gets you on someone's tail and auto fire to knock them down of arcades types.




World of Planes maybe a World of Warcraft, but remember it will only help ww 2 sims in general.

Some people there will hear about us, and taste the true sim, and then some will never go back. There will be a general push for more ww2 sims and it will help as more competition will have better games.

[Chivas]

There are people that might not want to fly for hours to get to the action some people just don't have the time. You can still simulate some things very well while simplifying other areas, this does not suddenly make an "Arcade" game. I just can't understand why some people feel the need to constantly bash Gaijin. They are doing a fine job in getting new people intersted in the genre.




No its ok, I do understand you. You like very acurate simulation games. Gaijin's games are not acurate enough for you, I understand that too.
But there is no need to look down on Gaijin just because they are catering for a different audience, some people here use the word Arcade as a kind of derision.


You may feel some Gaijin bashing on this forum as some people have been spamming the IL-forums inferring how much better WOP is than IL-2 and COD. The laughable part is that they have to come to this forum to tell us as there's nobody in the WOP forum. That said I enjoyed many aspects of WOP, but found the maps too small, and Gaijin last interview inferred they didn't see the need to increase their map size. I'm all for Gaijin, as decent competition is great for our genre.

[Robotic Pope]

I guess I like the FPS occasionally because at 53 years old - there's nothing that makes me feel younger and more vital than knife killing a 13 year old who just called me a noobz.

Thanks

Gunny

:-D +1

Thats why I respect Gaijin. They are not just doing some old WWII arcade shooter like Blazing angels. They create a bridge between the arcade shooter and the flight sim which makes the transition easier especialy for the FPS playing 13yo's who could be the next generation of flight simmers. As the flight sims get ever more realistic there is a need for this "semi-sim" As young people today usually want things easy to get to grips with, high accessability, and to feel as they are doing well as they improve. The lack of this bridge in the past may be one cause of the drop in the flight sim genre. Hopefully with MG and Gaijin the genre can gain popularity again. :)

[Al Schlageter]

Please don't forget that these 'arcade' games bring new blood into the flight sim world. When the want something more challenging they come to CloD.

[jimbop]

The more sim games the merrier. A lot of people come to IL-2 (and hopefully CoD) after getting their introduction to the flight sim genre from arcade-style games but then finding that they weren't quite solid enough under the hood.

Remember that the barriers to entry for CoD can be substantial (e.g. HOTAS, TrackIR/FT, learning the language of 'prop pitch, mixture', rubbish campaigns and little offline gameplay etc). Anything that helps people along the way is good for CoD's future.

EDIT: Al Schlageter beat me to it! +1

[Bryan21cag]

LOL it still confuses me when these arguments come up...... "its not a sim mannnnnnn" "it is a sim mannnnnn" in the end why does it even matter? why cant we just play both and enjoy them for what they are?? I consider my self a simulation lover IL246 being on the top of my list of that genre. That in no way has anything to do with the fact that I also love to jump on RTS, RPG, MMO, MMORPG, and ARCADE ACTION games for fun.

It just seems silly to sit there and talk like there has to be one game to rule them all when in fact each game really has its own fun to bring, or not to bring as it were:) by the way that cockpit shot for world of planes looks to be even a step up from the CLOD ones :) ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGG BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no but really I jump on world of tanks or crimson skys and just blow people away with big unrealistic planes and tanks and it just plain fun every now and again. Then when im in the mood for real simulation action I get on IL246 and really immerse my self in the simulation GAMING experience.

personally I love having my gaming market flooded with tons of games in each genre. Choices are a gamers best friend because it drives competition and forces developers into continuous improvement. So what if world of planes comes out and has some cooler aspects to it then CLOD. If it does it will generate interest in the Subject I.E. WWII aircraft and flying games and that will ultimately generate more interest in WWII flight sims period.

OOps sorry jimbop and al didnt see your posts before i wrote this one lol i guess i could have just +1 you guys lol any way what jimbop Al and others already said :P
Cheers :)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Ace, those models were done by Luthier's RRG Studios for the now stillborn "Project Galba" Korean War sim based on the "Storm of War" engine.

I so want to fly a P 82 Twin Mustang.
I recall something about that awhile back.. lets hope they can find use for those models in CoD someday

[addman]

LOL it still confuses me when these arguments come up...... "its not a sim mannnnnnn" "it is a sim mannnnnn" in the end why does it even matter? why cant we just play both and enjoy them for what they are?? I consider my self a simulation lover IL246 being on the top of my list of that genre. That in no way has anything to do with the fact that I also love to jump on RTS, RPG, MMO, MMORPG, and ARCADE ACTION games for fun.

It just seems silly to sit there and talk like there has to be one game to rule them all when in fact each game really has its own fun to bring, or not to bring as it were:) by the way that cockpit shot for world of planes looks to be even a step up from the CLOD ones :) ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGG BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no but really I jump on world of tanks or crimson skys and just blow people away with big unrealistic planes and tanks and it just plain fun every now and again. Then when im in the mood for real simulation action I get on IL246 and really immerse my self in the simulation GAMING experience.

personally I love having my gaming market flooded with tons of games in each genre. Choices are a gamers best friend because it drives competition and forces developers into continuous improvement. So what if world of planes comes out and has some cooler aspects to it then CLOD. If it does it will generate interest in the Subject I.E. WWII aircraft and flying games and that will ultimately generate more interest in WWII flight sims period.

OOps sorry jimbop and al didnt see your posts before i wrote this one lol i guess i could have just +1 you guys lol any way what jimbop Al and others already said :P
Cheers :)

+1

Why can't we just appreciate things for what they are? I play DCS A-10 and CloD on full realism but I also enjoy a game of Borderlands, WoT or freaking Angry Birds sometimes. Depends on what type of gaming experience I'm in the mood for at a given moment. If I could only play CloD for the rest of my life then I'd rather do something else instead :)

[ParaB]

+1

Why can't we just appreciate things for what they are? I play DCS A-10 and CloD on full realism but I also enjoy a game of Borderlands, WoT or freaking Angry Birds sometimes. Depends on what type of gaming experience I'm in the mood for at a given moment. If I could only play CloD for the rest of my life then I'd rather do something else instead :)

Well said. The "flightsm elitism" displayed by some people is one of the worst things for our hobby IMO.

[Danelov]

Excelent models, specially the MiG-15 and the PO-2.

[Feathered_IV]

By the time it is ready for release, those Galba models will probably be obsolete.

[icarus]

LOL it still confuses me when these arguments come up...... "its not a sim mannnnnnn" "it is a sim mannnnnn" in the end why does it even matter? why cant we just play both and enjoy them for what they are?? I consider my self a simulation lover IL246 being on the top of my list of that genre. That in no way has anything to do with the fact that I also love to jump on RTS, RPG, MMO, MMORPG, and ARCADE ACTION games for fun.

It just seems silly to sit there and talk like there has to be one game to rule them all when in fact each game really has its own fun to bring, or not to bring as it were:) by the way that cockpit shot for world of planes looks to be even a step up from the CLOD ones :) ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGG BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! no but really I jump on world of tanks or crimson skys and just blow people away with big unrealistic planes and tanks and it just plain fun every now and again. Then when im in the mood for real simulation action I get on IL246 and really immerse my self in the simulation GAMING experience.

personally I love having my gaming market flooded with tons of games in each genre. Choices are a gamers best friend because it drives competition and forces developers into continuous improvement. So what if world of planes comes out and has some cooler aspects to it then CLOD. If it does it will generate interest in the Subject I.E. WWII aircraft and flying games and that will ultimately generate more interest in WWII flight sims period.

OOps sorry jimbop and al didnt see your posts before i wrote this one lol i guess i could have just +1 you guys lol any way what jimbop Al and others already said :P
Cheers :)



+1

[Madfish]

Please don't forget that these 'arcade' games bring new blood into the flight sim world. When the want something more challenging they come to CloD.

Reality is often different though. After dumping hundreds of (insert currency of your choice here) most will never ever leave that game anymore. It's the sad reality when it comes to "free to play" titles and their players.

[David198502]

well for me it was exactly that way....i only became aware of il2 1946 because of Birds of Prey.then i quickly left the xbox game and never looked back again.

[jimbop]

Reality is often different though. After dumping hundreds of (insert currency of your choice here) most will never ever leave that game anymore. It's the sad reality when it comes to "free to play" titles and their players.

Whilst I agree with this for games in general I don't think it holds true for flight sims due to the equipment requirement. If you can be bothered buying a joystick (even a cheap one) you are likely willing to try other games.

My own experience was that I bought Wings of Prey as a steam special, got a cheap logitech joystick after a couple of days on the keyboard and then spent an awful lot of time reading about complex engine management. I then discovered IL-2 1946 - I still remember the first time I visited the forum and saw the depth of knowledge. I even remember that there was a 109 vs. Spit flamewar going (not that that narrows it down!) I didn't play WoP after starting up 1946 for the first time.