Bf-109E-4 and E-4/B With Update???

[smink1701]

Wondering what are the big differences with these models vs the versions in the current game.

[Ze-Jamz]

They can fire the mineshells..

Dont think the E-4 had a diff power plant though some very small numbers did for high alt flying so cant see that included but would be nice..

Seems a bit of a waste having a new variant just because it can fire a diff ammo..

Maybe Im wrong though

[Gollum]

They can fire the mineshells..

Dont think the E-4 had a diff power plant though some very small numbers did for high alt flying so cant see that included but would be nice..

Seems a bit of a waste having a new variant just because it can fire a diff ammo..

Maybe Im wrong though

Wasn't the e-4 the dominant fighter during bob? heard e-3 was rare.. Mineshells sound nice... Wings be gone...

[JG53Frankyboy]

and perhaps the CoD E-4 will have a automatic propeller.
At least it has a thumbrockerswitch on the throttle instead the lever on the instrument panel. we will see.

[Redroach]

well, If the spits retain their buggy performance after their patch, RAF's future looks bleak :(
The RAF needs some love, too - give us some more planes, too! :)

[Ze-Jamz]

well, If the spits retain their buggy performance after their patch, RAF's future looks bleak :(
The RAF needs some love, too - give us some more planes, too! :)

Yea must be hard with the Hurri Rotol and Spit2 huh? :rolleyes:

[jojovtx]

If the 109E4 gets the MG FF/M cannons, will the 110 that is currently in game get the MG FF/M cannons that it should already have but don't?

[Ze-Jamz]

If the 109E4 gets the MG FF/M cannons, will the 110 that is currently in game get the MG FF/M cannons that it should already have but don't?

I would say Yes to that..would seem very strange if not

[smink1701]

Just curious, does anyone else find the addition of various plane models where there is no real visual difference and very minor changes to engine, performance or armament is kind of a waste of time and effort. I do. Put all your efforts in making a new plane or adding cannons to the Spit.

[Ze-Jamz]

Hopefully, the E-4 will be closer to the real performance and will allow mapmakers to open up the availability of the Spit II as they should be pretty even matches.

OP & Z-Jamz, the E-4 can fire mineshells, but the cannons themselves are huge improvements in fire rate and projectile velocity. No more lobbing pineapples at the target! ;)

Cool, I didnt know that..

thks dude

And yea i agree with the 109/spit2 statement

[ElAurens]

Enough with the cannon whines.

Are you lot such bad shots or so impatient that you will throw hissy fits till you get your 109 K4s?

And I have never been on a server that offered a Mk II. Spit.

Don't be in such a rush to get to 1944. It's boring and has been done to death.

[Ze-Jamz]

Enough with the cannon whines.

Are you lot such bad shots or so impatient that you will throw hissy fits till you get your 109 K4s?

And I have never been on a server that offered a Mk II. Spit.

Don't be in such a rush to get to 1944. It's boring and has been done to death.

Really? open your eyes then cuz they are available..and whos whining?

[JG53Frankyboy]

an E-1 loaded with B-Geschoss (small HE) and S.Kern-Hart (AP) is deadly enough :D
i dont use tracers in it.

btw, according to the first 109 modmaker ( http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23921 ) , there are two 601 engines in game programmed.
the DB601A-1 and DB601Aa (slightly more powerful)
IIRC the E-1 and E-3 have the A-1 modeled default he said.
So, we will see if the E-4 will get the Aa , if with automatic propeller (so the already exsiting "enable/disable propeller automatic" command would get sense :D ) or still only manual.

[Ze-Jamz]

an E-1 loaded with B-Geschoss and S.Kern-Hart (AP) is deadly enough :D
i dont use tracers in it.

btw, according to the first 109 modmaker, there are two 601 engines in game programmed.
the DB601A-1 and DB601Aa (slightly more powerful)
IIRC the E-1 and E-3 have the A-1 modeled default he said.
So, we will see if the E-4 will get the Aa , if with automatic propeller (so the already exsiting "enable/disable propeller automatic" command would get sense :D ) or still only manual.

Yea Rg the Aa was for the E4 on higher Alt duties afaik... will be interesting

[Blackdog_kt]

I think it does have automatic prop pitch like the real one had.

If you look at the video Luthier posted in the latest development update you can see the pitch "clock" instrument moving in unison with the throttle changes. ;-)

[tk471138]

Hopefully, the E-4 will be closer to the real performance and will allow mapmakers to open up the availability of the Spit II as they should be pretty even matches.

OP & Z-Jamz, the E-4 can fire mineshells, but the cannons themselves are huge improvements in fire rate and projectile velocity. No more lobbing pineapples at the target! ;)



The cannons themselves do not have HUGE improvements...the only difference is the velocity for the Mine shell, due to the rounds lower weight this also caused the existing mgFF to need to be modified to cope with the higher velocity, this i believe was the main difference (correct me if im wrong)...their might have been a slight increase in rate of fire...what this does is it bring the Luftwaffe cannons to their pretty much standard fittings with the availability of Mine shells, which we should have from this point forward which should be exciting...
or may
The MG151/20 is the cannon that you are thinking of with the huge improvements...we will not get that to the f4 or maybe a 110 variant...

[JG53Frankyboy]

that would be the DB601N , not much used during BoB.
main users were BF110s in ZG units.
So far the community observations of DB601 users in the past are:
DB601N Units August 1940:
Bf109E-4/N
II./JG 26

Bf110C-4/N
II./ZG 26
III./ZG 26
II./ZG 76

[Ze-Jamz]

I think it does have automatic prop pitch like the real one had.

If you look at the video Luthier posted in the latest development update you can see the pitch "clock" instrument moving in unison with the throttle changes. ;-)

Auto PP...lovely!

[JG53Frankyboy]

I think it does have automatic prop pitch like the real one had.

If you look at the video Luthier posted in the latest development update you can see the pitch "clock" instrument moving in unison with the throttle changes. ;-)

or they flew the video with CEM off..............we will see soon.

[Danelov]

The main visual difference was the canopy and the seat/head armour plate. Also refitted later to some old E-1s and E-3s.

[DB605]

or they flew the video with CEM off..............we will see soon.

Watch the video again. There is no prop pitch lever...

[tintifaxl]

Just curious, does anyone else find the addition of various plane models where there is no real visual difference and very minor changes to engine, performance or armament is kind of a waste of time and effort. I do. Put all your efforts in making a new plane or adding cannons to the Spit.

No, I think the E4 is a very welcome addition to the BoB scenario.

[JG53Frankyboy]

Watch the video again. There is no prop pitch lever...

there is one, its just a thumbswitch on the throttle ;)
this switch replaced the lever on the panel - if there is a automatic or not.

[bw_wolverine]

It's very nice to get new models/variants. I hope the next updates are RAF though. It's a little disheartening to see the opposition get new and improved toys. :P

Bring 'em on though, I say. We shall never surrender.

[SG1_Lud]

I think it does have automatic prop pitch like the real one had.

If you look at the video Luthier posted in the latest development update you can see the pitch "clock" instrument moving in unison with the throttle changes. ;-)


And no lever ;)

[Winger]

well, If the spits retain their buggy performance after their patch, RAF's future looks bleak :(
The RAF needs some love, too - give us some more planes, too! :)

The spitfire and hurricane are good in their performance. They can do thing pretty well if FLOWN CORRECTLY like people like wavilon show regularily on the the servers.
I mean they do turn better than the 109 (by a really big amount) heck the spitfire can turn on a dime. The hurricane is EXTREMELY close in speed to the 109. If you raise the performance for either of the two you ruin it completely for the german side. I mean look at the servers that have the Spit IIa... NOONE plays there for a reason. No point in playing german at all on those servers.
I do think we have a pretty good balance between the allied planes and the german ones (well with exception of the dogfighting blenheims and pi** poor performing G50:))
So stop whining and learn how to fly them correctly.

Winger

[capt vertigo]

Enough with the cannon whines.

Are you lot such bad shots or so impatient that you will throw hissy fits till you get your 109 K4s?

And I have never been on a server that offered a Mk II. Spit.

Don't be in such a rush to get to 1944. It's boring and has been done to death.

Amen to that..

Like my girlfriend reminds me,
Let's take our time.. Men always have to go for the glory!! LOL

Mike

[esmiol]

my opinion... people who said that having differant variant of plane is a waste of time don't deserve to play sim!

[esmiol]

the spitfire and hurricane are good in their performance. They can do thing pretty well if flown correctly like people like wavilon show regularily on the the servers.
I mean they do turn better than the 109 (by a really big amount) heck the spitfire can turn on a dime. The hurricane is extremely close in speed to the 109. If you raise the performance for either of the two you ruin it completely for the german side. I mean look at the servers that have the spit iia... Noone plays there for a reason. No point in playing german at all on those servers.
I do think we have a pretty good balance between the allied planes and the german ones (well with exception of the dogfighting blenheims and pi** poor performing g50:))
so stop whining and learn how to fly them correctly.

Winger

+10000000000000

[Tree_UK]

The main visual difference was the canopy and the seat/head armour plate. Also refitted later to some old E-1s and E-3s.

Spot on, I really hope that they have included the canopy change it makes a big diffrence to the look of the 109 IMHO.

[JG53Frankyboy]

just watch luthiers video and you will see they have........
just the headarmour is missing, but that was no 'standard' even in the E-4 production run.

[David198502]

If the new E-4's FM is close to what is was in real life, then finally we'll have a good matchup for the Spit II. Now, if they don't fix the Spit I, Hurri, E-1, and E-3s, then the two planes will totally outclass the current FMs. Hopefully, all the FM's are tweaked, or we're going to be playing a ton of Spit II vs E-4 maps...

+1! it would be a shame if the other models would be forgotten.would be pretty boring to have only two useful planes online.

[Ze-Jamz]

+1! it would be a shame if the other models would be forgotten.would be pretty boring to have only two useful planes online.

Pretty much as it is now then...

Hopefully they will sort it

[tk471138]

If the spitfireII is a problem for the 109 they could add the N model engine or the slightly improved Aa...and then they can add the spitfire2 with the 2 cannons.

[Ze-Jamz]

if the spitfireii is a problem for the 109 they could add the n model engine or the slightly improved aa...and then they can add the spitfire2 with the 2 cannons.

lol, I dont mind the Spit2 being introduced..i wanted it months ago but with Cannons?....Naa

[Das Attorney]

Seeing as it took part in BOB, then why not? No different than all the blue pilots in this thread drooling over E4 with mineshells.

As cheesehawk pointed out - all of the planes could do with revision. Anyway, it's all about the pilot. NO point having shiny shiny cannon if the enemy ac is on your six...

[Ze-Jamz]

Seeing as it took part in BOB, then why not? No different than all the blue pilots drooling over E4 with mineshells.

Cool bring it on... let me know when its here and il change my Sig pic to a nice spitty..

The Spit2 will outclimb, out turn, run down and will do more damage with 2 hispanos and 303's im sure...dont expect too many blue pilots around to fight on the server its on

[Ze-Jamz]

double post

[pupo162]

Seeing as it took part in BOB, then why not? No different than all the blue pilots in this thread drooling over E4 with mineshells.

As cheesehawk pointed out - all of the planes could do with revision. Anyway, it's all about the pilot. NO point having shiny shiny cannon if the enemy ac is on your six...

well it took part in BOB but the cannonsused to jam every 6th round and eventually they were putted appart.

[Ze-Jamz]

NO point having shiny shiny cannon if the enemy ac is on your six...

Lol quote of the year..

[Das Attorney]

lol ;)

To expand on what I meant - I don't want to see something written out of the game totally because of how it performed compared to other planes. Obv, playing online should be fun, so maybe servers can do similar stuff to Repka and have limited quantities of "uber planes" available.

I like using both blue and red, but ATM, the Spit I is not fun to fly and granted the Spit II is too good compared to 109 E3. I'm hoping this new patch might bring in some balance to the planes and make it a little more appetising to play red while not weeing all over blue (as it were).

[DB605]

there is one, its just a thumbswitch on the throttle ;)
this switch replaced the lever on the panel - if there is a automatic or not.

Yes i know it's in the throttle like later models , i thought it was changed to there when automatic prop control was appeared but i stand corrected.

[skouras]

Spot on, I really hope that they have included the canopy change it makes a big diffrence to the look of the 109 IMHO.

yes they have change it
look the update video with the sounds Tree
you will notice it

[Gollum]

lol ;)

To expand on what I meant - I don't want to see something written out of the game totally because of how it performed compared to other planes. Obv, playing online should be fun, so maybe servers can do similar stuff to Repka and have limited quantities of "uber planes" available.

I like using both blue and red, but ATM, the Spit I is not fun to fly and granted the Spit II is too good compared to 109 E3. I'm hoping this new patch might bring in some balance to the planes and make it a little more appetising to play red while not weeing all over blue (as it were).

I have fun playing both red and blue now without the spit II. I have no problem flying a spit I or Ia against current E3 109's. My rule of thumb is try not to get caught at the disadvantage with altitude and when not possible, out turn until they make a mistake. I've gotten many kills online with both, even though the current 109s have the advantage of choosing when to fight (climb or dive away).

I actually don't enjoy playing on servers with spit IIs now whether im on blue or red because if I'm blue I have no advantage to play on and if I'm on red-- I feel like i'm cheating.

Boths planes have advantages and disadvantages now and are fun to play with. anyone who says otherwise just needs a bit of patience and practice. (teamwork is key too). Fly with a buddy and strategize...

PATCH SOON!!!!

Ps. I like the idea of limiting plane models ect... always dreamed of a attrition / rank system (WWII online style but IL2).

Have a good holiday weekend all..

Yall be cool

[Ze-Jamz]

[QUOTE=Gollum;329694
Ps. I like the idea of limiting plane models ect... always dreamed of a attrition / rank system (WWII online style but IL2).
[/QUOTE]

Oh how we battled hard to get either the SpitMK5 or the 109F...ah those were the days :)

[Blackdog_kt]

Cool bring it on... let me know when its here and il change my Sig pic to a nice spitty..

The Spit2 will outclimb, out turn, run down and will do more damage with 2 hispanos and 303's im sure...dont expect too many blue pilots around to fight on the server its on

Unless its cannons jam with the historically correct frequency which, judging from the fact that it was pulled from frontline duty pretty fast, must have been quite high :-P

On a serious note, i'm all for getting all available aircraft to their correct specifications, balancing is better left to the players, mission designers and server admins once we have the appropriate tools.

[Ralith]

Just curious, does anyone else find the addition of various plane models where there is no real visual difference and very minor changes to engine, performance or armament is kind of a waste of time and effort. I do. Put all your efforts in making a new plane or adding cannons to the Spit.

No. Realize that the dev team is not composed of incredible do-it-all developers. While the engine guys are fixing bugs, the aircraft modelers have little to do. In addition, it's exactly this kind of new model—relatively small revisions of existing craft—which doesn't take all that much time or effort to create, and gives us more variety and balance options.

[ATAG_Doc]

Wasn't the e-4 the dominant fighter during bob? heard e-3 was rare.. Mineshells sound nice... Wings be gone...

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/BoB.htm

Quote:
The Bf 109E-4, which entered service in May 1940 and was therefore the latest model used at the time of the BoB, introduced the MG-FFM cannon. This was a version of the MG-FF modified to fire the new, thin-walled high-capacity mine shells (Minengeschoss or M-Geschoss). Although containing far more explosive than the MG-FF's shells, the M-Geschoss was much lighter at 92 g. It was fired at a higher velocity of around 700 m/s (2,300 fps) but even so did not develop enough recoil to operate the MG-FF's mechanism, so the gun had to be altered with a lighter reciprocating weight and weaker recoil spring. Ammunition for the MG-FF and MG-FFM was therefore not interchangeable. It appears that MG-FFs were gradually converted to the FFM standard and the two terms used interchangeably thereafter.

Comparisons of the effectiveness of the British and German armament are not unlike the comparisons of the aircraft – each had its strengths and weaknesses. The British armament had a very high rate of fire (160 v. 50 rounds per second for the Bf 109), increasing the chance of scoring a hit. In weight of fire the German guns had a slight advantage (2.0 v. 1.8 kg per second), whereas in total muzzle energy there was nothing to choose between them. The key difference was of course the high explosive in the 20mm shells, which was enough to give the Bf 109E-4 almost double the destructive power of the British fighters. The M-Geschoss were not good at penetrating armour but this was considered a reasonable price to pay for the increased HE blast effect. The Luftwaffe discovered that the most reliable way of bringing down aircraft was the general destructive effect of HE blast within the structure, rather than relying on being able to hit vital but small areas (e.g. the pilot!), which could be, and quickly were, protected by armour. For this reason, AP projectiles eventually disappeared from German cannon ammunition belts except for special purposes.

[CaptainDoggles]

Just curious, does anyone else find the addition of various plane models where there is no real visual difference and very minor changes to engine, performance or armament is kind of a waste of time and effort. I do. Put all your efforts in making a new plane or adding cannons to the Spit.

Translation: My favorite plane isn't good enough and the other guys are getting a better plane, give me bigger guns please.

:rolleyes:

Were you disappointed that 1946 had many different variants? Perhaps it should only have included a single 109, a single spit, a single FW, a single P-51, etc etc...

That'd be a great game.

[Tree_UK]

yes they have change it
look the update video with the sounds Tree
you will notice it

Thanks buddy, I was so excited about the sounds I didn't even notice the new canopy but like you say its there and those 109's look better for it.

[ATAG_Doc]

Thanks for that timej! I wasn't even aware there was a Spit I with the b wing. Funny that it would be "returned for refund!" I think Galland would have loved to do that with the prop mounted cannons!

Absolutely!

[BRIGGBOY]

as much as i would like a mkii spit with hispano cannons i personally think it wouldnt feel right as the squadrons that used them reverted back to the 303s due to jamming problems. personally i would take a mkii spit with a FM as close real life as possible armed with 303s

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

and perhaps the CoD E-4 will have a automatic propeller.
At least it has a thumbrockerswitch on the throttle instead the lever on the instrument panel. we will see.

And hopefully we get the speed of the 109 corrected with is imho still about 10% off (and for all the other planes with the same desease)

[Sven]

Any of you figured out how the automatic prop pitch works in the new Beta patch? I set the key to toggle it but it doesn't seem to do anything :confused:

[JG53Frankyboy]

i dontuse betas, but, do you mean you cant toggle it of or on ?
to ad, nobody said it owuld have an automatic. the cockpitpictures just showed it has a thumbswitch on hte throttle instead the big lever on the panel to control the pitch.

[Sven]

No but the option is in the controls now, Toggle Automatic Prop Pitch. They must have put that one in with this patch for a reason, but it doesn't seem to work, I get no response from it, tried all sorts of key.

[JG53Frankyboy]

this command is there since the first gamerealse.
you can even command to fold wings IIRC, looks in the future :D

the Ju 88 actually would need the automatic toggle command - you could switch between manual ( yes, like in the 109....) and a kind of automik that kept the rpm at 2350 .

[Sven]

Oh I didn't notice that, thanks. Well I guess auto prop pitch just isn't included for the 109 then.

[JG53Frankyboy]

someone in another forum told me that on the panel is written it would have automatik ?!
if that is true ( to repeat, i dont use these betas ) than...........the FM guy propably didnt know what the textur guy did :D

[Ze-Jamz]

No but the option is in the controls now, Toggle Automatic Prop Pitch. They must have put that one in with this patch for a reason, but it doesn't seem to work, I get no response from it, tried all sorts of key.

That command has always been there mate :) but it doesn't work not in any of the fighters anyway

[IvanK]

The E4 panel reflects a modded aircraft with Auto prop added. The legend on the blanking plate that covers where the old lever was states this aircraft fitted with Automatic propeller or words to that effect. I am sure the Germans here can provide an exact translation.

Patience Autoprop pitch will come to the E4.

[1./JG2_Miller]

The E4 panel reflects a modded aircraft with Auto prop added. The legend on the blanking plate that covers where the old lever was states this aircraft fitted with Automatic propeller or words to that effect. I am sure the Germans here can provide an exact translation.

Patience Autoprop pitch will come to the E4.

It's called "Automatische Propellerverstellung" but means the same as auto prop :-P

[Skoshi Tiger]

Just played a bit on the Australian Skies server, What a hoot with the new graphics and sound!

Is realistic to be able to hear the whine from the 109 as it drops onto your six? Scarred the bjesus out of me! Might be slightly over done, but certainly a useful cue to start breaking hard! What is it like in the German planes?


Cheers!

[JG53Frankyboy]

old discussion in the IL2 years and still in RoF too:
You should hear almost nothing from outside when your own engine is running at power - no engine and no guns. Hence the reports of pilots in combat who were surprised to see tracers passing their aircraft................they didnt heard the guns not to speak the engines of their foes.

Isnt it like Star Wars - with all that sound in the Space :D

[JG52Krupi]

Well you can only hear them a little bit and regarding the sound of guns I could only hear the awesome sound of 303 whistling past and hitting me AWESOME sounds.

Also the sounds increase when you open your cockpit, still no wind sounds though :( only major one missing now.

[JG53Frankyboy]

thats good.

My almost only experience in flying CoD, after i did all my FM, CEM and weapons tests in the first few weeks after release, is flying the Blenheim on ATAG server to sink some ships.
And the FLAK sound is, well, i can hear it :D But at coarse pitch the Blenheim is normaly below 2000rpm............ ;)

[Bussard_1]

Skoshi, I believe it was I who finally got you & your Hurri tonight on Aus Skies.
Nice fight!.
My engine management could have been better, I probably didn't max perform the engine as much as I would have liked,so when you say you could hear the turbo whine,do mean constantly or did it rise and fall?
Strange that you could hear my engine over your own.

On Australian Skies as SC/JG_Kaiser.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Skoshi, I believe it was I who finally got you & your Hurri tonight on Aus Skies.
Nice fight!.
My engine management could have been better, I probably didn't max perform the engine as much as I would have liked,so when you say you could hear the turbo whine,do mean constantly or did it rise and fall?
Strange that you could hear my engine over your own.

On Australian Skies as SC/JG_Kaiser.

I'm still getting the hang of it myself. :) I didn't have enough E to get my gun around to bear and just got lower and slower as the fight progressed.

I found I started to hear the whine and had enough time to see you were diving in from my rear right hand side then break in that direction.

The whine is quite high pitched compared to the drone of the Merlin engine so it wouldn't surprise me if they were able to hear it (Just like I can hear a Harley in traffic over the top of my Charger - not a quiet car, but a completely different engine sound)

Cheers!

Good fun on Aussie skies hope to fight you again soon!