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View Full Version : Anyone seen a blenhiem bombing guide


Bobb4
08-25-2011, 01:25 PM
Anyone seen a blenhiem bombing guide. Looking for one ;)

Redroach
08-25-2011, 02:19 PM
look a bit harder. maybe starting with only a few threads down

Bobb4
08-26-2011, 08:51 AM
All they talk about is flying the thing. I was hoping for a description on how to use the bombsight, especially from someone who has actually hit a target????

Blackdog_kt
08-26-2011, 11:26 AM
I was just testing the Lofte in the He-111 and i got some good results, mostly through following my own theoretical advice from the FAQ thread.

I just took the time to fly around in the cross country mission with some bombs loaded and piece together all the little bits that i've experimented with over time to execute a complete bomb run: climbing to altitude and trimming for hands-off flying, setting the gyros and engaging the course autopilot, flying the aircraft via the autopilot, a straight run to calibrate the sight and set the bomb controls, all those little things that i had done individually in the past but was too lazy up till now to do them in their complete sequence :-P

I did miss my intended aim point by a few hundred meters, but it was mostly due to the difference between sea level and ground level (i didn't know the altitude above sea level of the piece of land i was aiming at, so i used my ASL altitude instead of the AGL which is what's needed).


As for the Blenheim, due to its generally quirky nature i haven't given it a go yet in terms of a full level bombing sortie. I know how to cruise the thing around and can wrestle it into the air, but haven't tried putting everything together just yet.

The bombsight in that one is not fully animated: it was possible in the real one to calculate wind drift, true airspeed, ground speed and so on, then use that data to input the correct altitude and speed values.

In the in-game Blenheim we only get altitude and speed values though, so there's no way to correct for wind yet.

I made a sample bombing mission in the FMB that places the player in a position somewhat back in the formation. This allows the player to either drop on the leaders command, or engage autopilot to have the AI fly the plane, move to the bombardier's seat and see what kind of bombsight settings will result in the targeting reticule giving the correct aim point at the time the AI leader gives the command to drop the bombs.

First thing to make sure in experimentation like this is to create some controlled conditions with as little variables as possible.

Since the Blenheim's bombsight is a bit crude in terms of altitude adjustment (it only adjusts in increments of 1000ft and if we throw in the elevation of ground above sea level things get even more complicated), it's best to go in at a relatively low altitude to minimize the impact of sighting errors.
Another important thing is to set zero wind in the FMB.

If we want to be really accurate, it's good to take a free flight over the target area at tree top level and note down the target's elevation above sea level (ASL), then use it when flying the bombing practice mission.

For example, if the target is 500 feet ASL and since the bombsight only adjust to 1000ft,2000ft,3000ft, etc, i would have to go in at 1500ft,2500ft or 3500ft. However, the IAS/TAS conversion chart in the manual only has "whole" values of thousands of feet, so out best bet is to extrapolate between two values and go in low to minimize the impact of errors.

I would normally advise using the bombsight table software that many of us used with IL2:1946 for IAS/TAS conversions, but many users have reported it doesn't work correctly under windows vista/7.

I think the best solution would be to have a customized IAS/TAS conversion info window as part of the sim's interface. I know such a thing can be done thanks to the scripting capabilities in the sim, i just don't know how to do it :-P

In any case, i don't yet have a tried and tested method for bombing in the Blenheim but i'm going to give it a go sometime today or during the weekend and report back.

The most important bits to keep a note of would be the target's elevation ASL and finding a good cruising altitude for the Blenheim's specified power settings (so that it results in a manageable speed that is close to the listed speeds in the sim's manual IAS/TAS conversion charts).

What i currently have is taking off from one of the airfields near Dover, crossing over to Calais (so it's a short hop) and attacking some parked 110s on an airbase. There's also some flak to spice things up, not too much but it can be nasty if you're unlucky because i've placed some lower caliber automatic guns and the Blenheim's come in at 3000ft or so.

I'm thinking of tweaking my mission somewhat to make it more manageable and then uploading here in case anyone wants to practice.

What i'd need to do is make the wingmen idle a bit to give the player a change to warm up (they do circle the field and wait for you though), find out the target's elevation and create a briefing with the relevant data and finally, lighten the fuel load somewhat because it's more than enough and it just makes the take off run longer (which means a higher chance of blowing an engine).

Don't wait with baited breath, but i'll probably come up with something within a couple of days ;-)

Redroach
08-26-2011, 11:47 AM
so you answer him about the bombsight, but not me, huh? pfffft!

I've gotten good results (within the blen's possibilities) when following the other guy's advice in the thread I mentioned when coming in at 6000ft and lowering the speed adjustment to 100-110mph when actually going 180-190mph. As I said, it's all in the other thread.

Vengeanze
08-26-2011, 12:20 PM
I'd love to bomb stuff but the Blenheim is a too easy target to take online in campaigns. Can't make myself learn how to bomb with it cause my guess is I'd never make it close to the dropzone.
Wish we had a heavy bomber with some more gunpods.

Blackdog_kt
08-26-2011, 02:00 PM
so you answer him about the bombsight, but not me, huh? pfffft!

I've gotten good results (within the blen's possibilities) when following the other guy's advice in the thread I mentioned when coming in at 6000ft and lowering the speed adjustment to 100-110mph when actually going 180-190mph. As I said, it's all in the other thread.

Hahaha, sorry mate, it's just that there are so many threads and so little time to answer them all. I sometimes make a mental note to try out something to be able to answer another user, then i forget about it if i start reading something else :grin:


I'd love to bomb stuff but the Blenheim is a too easy target to take online in campaigns. Can't make myself learn how to bomb with it cause my guess is I'd never make it close to the dropzone.
Wish we had a heavy bomber with some more gunpods.

I think the trick is to come in low and fast, having an escort is always welcome too as for all bombers.

It might be under-protected but it can move at a reasonable clip, also thanks to the way the graphics are (camo paint actually works) it might be hard for patrolling enemy fighters to pick you up against the ground until it's too late.

Cruising speeds as low as 130mph were used for maximum range and fuel economy, but i think such mission profiles would be used in long range missions (like the raid on the Cologne power stations). For the short ranges we have on the current map, loading up just 50% fuel (to lessen the weight and help with the take-off) and cruising at 180mph (+0 to +1.5 boost at full coarse prop pitch) is good enough for coastal targets.

Phazon
08-26-2011, 02:00 PM
I might be wrong but the Blenheim bombsight might be bugged in that its not "aligned" properly, which might explain why its so hard to get bombs on-target even when the bombsight is dialled in. One of the devs mentioned it on the sukhoi.ru forum.

JG53Frankyboy
08-26-2011, 02:09 PM
as long it is not mentioned in a Patch readme "overworked Blenheim CEM and bombhandling" i fly it as a low level bomber - mostly flying one or two antiship skipbombing attacks on ATAG server before i leave.

Btw, i have removed the tracer rounds from my reargunner.... some kind of surprise for attacking interceptors :D

Redroach
08-26-2011, 03:01 PM
yes, the blen's bombsight IS bugged, even visually.
Still, when having no fighter escort, I found it best to not fly directly towards the target, but in a wide (very wide, all over northern france) arc towards it, in order to avoid being spotted and engaged.
A little self-defense is fine, at least as a deterrent, but more 'gunpods' rarely help on bombers.

HR_Naglfar
08-26-2011, 04:50 PM
The bombsight is bugged, but is more or less usable.

Put your altitude above ground x 3 instead of the real altitude. For example if you are 5000ft above the target, put 15000ft in the bombsight.

The bombs fall sometimes in a weird manner though, so it's not very accurate.

Blackdog_kt
08-27-2011, 04:35 PM
Interesting, so you say it's just a scale error? If that's the case then we can apply a single correction (like you described) and finally have a usable bombisight.

Nice, i'll try this out today ;-)

Mechanist
08-31-2011, 09:56 PM
Here are my exact findings thats mentioned before:

Blenheim mk IV bombsight problem:

If you fly for example at 6000 ft with 190 mph TAS level flight and you give this parameters to the bombsight, it points approx 3 miles closer then the actual impact point.

So i adjusted the input settings to find the correct impact point and here are the results:

Scenario 1: Adjusting the airspeed with correct altitude to find the correct inpact point:

Fligth conditions 3000 ft 190 mph TAS:
Set height to 3000 ft set speed to 90 mph

Fligth conditions 6000 ft 190 mph TAS:
Set height to 6000 ft set speed to 110 mph


Scenario 2: Adjusting the altitude with correct airspeed to find the correct inpact point::

Fligth conditions 3000 ft 190 mph TAS:
Set speed to 190 mhp TAS the height input is 12000 ft

Fligth conditions 6000 ft 190 mph TAS:
Set speed to 190 mhp TAS the height input is 16000 ft

Also when you set the airspeed you'll see the speed setter wheel turning in the right lower part of the bombing sight. It have a scale from 100-260
I belive it's in mph, but it turns uncorrectly. Althougt the bar/lath in the left upper section of the sight have a scale between 90-310 mph.

The wheel turns like this:

set with keys / Indicated in the wheel:
90 / 258
100 / 120
110 / 155
120 / 190
130 / 225
140 / 258

And so on in the same pattern, so you can turn it arrond 3 times. I belive it is pretty wierd...

Also some information about effective bombing:

As for bombing procedures, my observations are the following:

- As mentioned before the bombsight don't work properly, so we have to wait for a fix.

- On the other hand if it were operational it will be very tricky to get a decent hit with just 2 or 4 bombs at higher altitudes.
I have run some tests on bombs dispersion from 3000 and 6000 feet, and they can impact anywhere between 30 to 300 feet (4 bombs).
Basicly the bombsight can only be used to hit a factory site, railway station, port, or an airfield, but it won't be effective if only one blenheim carries out this kind of mission. 9 or 12 would do in vic or diamond formation.

- For three or less blenheims (which occurs mostly in online games) the only way to be effective is to use an attack dive bombing in low altitudes. With this way a flight of blenheims can easily take out columns, trains, parking airplanes, bridges, railway stations, ships, encampments, etc.
Unluckily performing a percise attack dive takes a lot of practise, because there is no instrumental aid for such attack procedure in the blenheims cockpit.
I say you must drop about 1000 bombs to get the hang of it, also if you get the "feeling" when to release the bombs you will able to do it in any other plane aswell. Most of us have this "bombing sence" from il-2 allready and it works fine in CloD too
But here are some advice for the beginers:
- Always line up on your target if it moves or just longer in one direction, like a train, a ship, or a bride.
- Moving targets are best approached from behind, because you decrease the difference of speed between you and your target (easier to hit slower or stationary targets then fast moving ones because you have to calculate an impact point witch is before the target)
- The higher angle you have the closer the bomb will impact to your crosshair\sight. That is the whole point of Stuka like dive bombing, but it requires dive brakes which blenheims doesn't have.
- The lower you release the bomb the preciser your bomb will impact. Just remember that most bombs have to travel certain time in the air before its armed, and you can damage or kill your self with your own bomb. You can use timed detonators, but I won't reccomend them against moving targets. Although 1 or 2 secs might be fine against slow moving lightly armored targets.
- If you have few bombs against a linear-like target wait few milliseconds between releasing them, because you will do more damage against a column or a train, also you improve your direct hit chance on a ship or a bride.
- Choose your loadout wisely if you know the exact target you going to destroy. For example two 500 pounders are great for destroying larger buildings, bridges, or ships, but will do less damage against a 20 car long column, then four 250 pounders. Be aware that the blast damage decreases with the square of distance, so if you are going against a linear-like target choose more lighter bombs the few heavier. In the other hand four 250 pounders will do minimum damage against a concrete bunker or a heavily armoured ship because it doesn't have enough penatrating power, so in that case us heavier or penetrator bombs. Germans have SD bombs which don't blast much but will penetrate armoured or thick targets.

Thats all I can recall, for now...