Navigational tools

[Redroach]

Heya,
I want to get more insight into the navigation business, and I've found the navigational tools for the in-flight map, added with the last patch, come in quite handy. However, I'm still quite a bit away from developing a solid navigation strategy with these tools So I've got a couple of questions on that:
I know that you can measure distances and angles with tools 2 and 3, but I'm not quite sure how to best use the tool no. 1. With this tool, you're able to set 'waypoints' or other points of interest - but how can I use them in conjunction with the other tools? For example, if I set two waypoints, can I get a line between them, with a distance label and/or measure an angle to another line? Also, can I delete those points somehow, if I mis-clicked?
And, as stated above, has anyone developed an overall procedure to use all three tools? Maybe something like: set waypoints, get distance between them and measure angles in order to get compass bearings at each waypoint. If somebody has something along these lines, please tell me! :)

[Blackdog_kt]

I haven't bothered much with them yet. I think they'll come in very handy in the near future, but for now it's a bit cumbersome to use for me.

They were a last minute addition to the previous patch and not completely fine-tuned (it was probably something more like a "let's see how this works" deal), i'll use them a lot once they are though.

I only have two problems with them, but they both make it a bit hard to use mid-flight:

1) The toolbar is not resizable even after alt-clicking on it: not all buttons are visible on my resolution. Mayybe i can fix that myself, i think i'll have a look in confUser.ini later on.

2) The fonts and marking lines are a bit "slim" and get lost in the underlying clutter of the map. If we could have adjustable font size and line thickness, maybe a brighter colour too, it would instantly make them useful for mid-flight planning.

As for the waypoint tool, i think it could be interesting in case of online wars/coop style flights and so on: Join server, spawn a group of aircraft and give them waypoints, let them fly on their own, come back 2-3 hours later and jump in the pilot's seat.

Is this useful? Well, maybe not now, but it will be once we get future expansions and long range bombers. Then someone codes a small external program to make it possible to upload such missions to a server and we're set: you can upload your mission while you are still at work, your flight will start as AI at the specified time, you go back home, eat dinner, talk with the family, put the kids to bed, spend some time with the wife and when you're done with all the real-life stuff your flight of bombers will be nearing enemy coast...log-in, take control from the hands of the AI and fly the interesting part of the mission, then spawn another flight and let the AI fly the bombers home ;-)

[Redroach]

Yeah, I agree, there's a lot to be tuned as well here.
But, just a quick example: As told in the other thread, I had to go from Littlestone to Le Touquet tonight.
So I measured the angle between those two 'waypoints' with respect to an eastwards course, came up with a number around 50 degrees, and added this to the eastwards course -> I had to head for approx. 140deg.
Afterwards, I had to fly a little eastwards (90°) in order to be able to head directly to the north towards calais after that. With little landmark reference at that spot, I used the distance measuring tool and came up with a number of 9-point-something miles eastwards from Le Touquet, so I had a rough idea of how long to fly to the east.
After that, It was just proceeding northwards... so yeah, the tools are in fact handy. Though they need tuning, as you say :)

Regarding your example: Why not just do an airstart at the 'interesting part' ? I guess you're the same freak just like me who recognizes true missions only if they start and end on a runway/an airfield ;)

[Blackdog_kt]

Yup, they are still very much functional, i do use them from time to time. I just don't need them that much yet because distances are small enough and there's some prominent landmarks, which makes navigating in daylight easy enough.

I do use them in the way you described though, mostly when sitting on the runway and warming up, in order to have a small flight plan ready by the time i'm about to take-off. I expect that if we were to start night raids they would see much more use, along with the compass and course setter in the cockpit.


As for my ramblings about future developments and the airstart question, it's not that i object to it out of principle. I just think it would be interesting to have the raid take place in its entirety even if under AI control if not enough players participate in it, simply because it would give other players the means to change the outcome. For example, the opposing team might have sent some Jabo 190s to bomb those heavies before they take off, or they might be spotted over the North Sea by chance, the intel gets passed on and a better defence is organized, etc. ;-)

[David198502]

regarding the navigation tools.i think its a really good idea how to implement them in a realistic manner.but i tried them now a few times in self made missions with the bf, and came to the conclusion, that either the tools or the compass measure slightly wrong angles.

[IvanK]

regarding the navigation tools.i think its a really good idea how to implement them in a realistic manner.but i tried them now a few times in self made missions with the bf, and came to the conclusion, that either the tools or the compass measure slightly wrong angles.


I think you will find the Nav tool measures in degrees TRUE. The aircraft compass systems are obviously Magnetic. Variation in 1940 in this part of the world was around 10 degrees West.

So To obtain a Mag bearing from true just add 10 degrees to the True bearing. Try that see if that resolves the problem.

[Redroach]

yep, Ivan is right, when calibrating your gyro compass, you have to add around 10(.5, roundabout) deg. to your magnetic compass bearing. This was not yet implemented at CoD launch, but was fixed in a patch and mentioned in luthier's patchnotes.
Try that, you should achieve better results then.

P.S.: The explanation for this is that the headings on maps are 'calibrated' with respect to the earth's true north/south poles, i.e. the geographic poles, around which the earth rotates. The magnetic compass obivously measures geomagnetic north, wich is off by the mentioned value in the UK/France area.

[Redroach]

hmm any updates regarding the waypoint feature? How to best use them/delete them?
I figure it would be quite handy to use them as you can mark flak, ships, vehicles ect, too.

[Vengeanze]

When flying PF we printed out maps and prepared in forehand. That was vital if you wanted to have a chance to return to Essex. :-D

In CloD, like already stated, the map is so small and landmarks everywhere so I can't see any use for advanced navigation.
We don't have bad weather nor overcast so IR is of no use.
Even if we had bad weather air missions at that time was never executed unless good conditions.

Sure, advanced navigation is fun but for now useless imo.

[notimejeff]

Redroach, can you confirm this please:
'...when calibrating your gyro compass, you have to add around 10(.5, roundabout) deg. to your magnetic compass bearing...'

I thought the procedure was to add/subtract variation to the TRUE bearing to get the Magnetic reading, and then add aircraft deviation to MAG bearing to get the correct gyro compass bearing. I assume deviation isn't modelled. So in this case we should add 10 deg to TRUE not to Magnetic reading. I'm no expert, please correct me if I'm wrong. Regards....

[notimejeff]

Does this apply to offline missions? Should I add 10 deg to the mag compass reading before setting the DG? Or is it just for the Nav tools?

[Ma233e]

I guess you're the same freak just like me who recognizes true missions only if they start and end on a runway/an airfield

http://www.rdox.info/01.jpghttp://www.rdox.info/02.jpghttp://www.rdox.info/8.jpghttp://www.rdox.info/04.jpg

[IvanK]

All headings measured on the map are true. So you need to add 10 degrees to obtain the magnetic heading to fly both on line or off line. Your dg can be aligned on any refrence true or magnetic. However since the only refrence you have in the cockpit is the magnetic compass the convention is to align the dg to a magnetic refrence.

So measure in true convert to magnetic, set dg refrence magnetic heading and fly magnetic.

[Redroach]

why not just substract 10 deg on your course heading indicator thingy (at least for the RAF, which have such an instrument) and go for true north directions?

[IvanK]

Because the ONLY heading refrence you have in the cockpit (the compass) is magnetic. Because the dg is subject to gyro drift/precession it needs ro be reset or synched regularly.
The only refrence you have in the cockpit to refrence and synch with is magnetic. Hence magnetic is always used.

Modern nav systems (inertial/gps etc)
can use any refrence however the normal convention is still to use magnetic.

[Redroach]

Yes, I understand, but still, all you need is to always remember: "minus 10 deg" when setting, or re-setting the gyro. It's no additional work when resetting or resynching.
Then, you can just *read* the map, without any further calculations.

Again, I understand that convention is magnetic, because the magnetic compass is "always right" (within its 10° error). However, I might deviate from original protocol in this one case :)