Incredible Detail

[JG52Krupi]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this before...

I was flying online with Bliss taking it in turns to fly the aircraft and be gunners when we jumped in to a BR20 and found the impeller aka ram air turbine we think!!! :D

Now if it is a ram air turbine if the aircraft was to lose power this device is deployed to generate power.

If you look behind the pilot and above the wing you can see the ram air turbine folded away.

http://s3.postimage.org/tlwzzu0vh/shot_20110807_011953.png (http://postimage.org/image/191i9detg/full/)
image uploading (http://www.postimage.org/)

Here you can see it delploying.

http://s3.postimage.org/iz26gl5uq/shot_20110807_011944.png (http://postimage.org/image/190hvjryc/full/)
upload pngpng (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://s3.postimage.org/iz19du81c/shot_20110807_011942.png (http://postimage.org/image/18zkssu2s/full/)
image host (http://www.postimage.org/)

Door open as well :D

http://s3.postimage.org/q28rl5lid/shot_20110807_011931.png (http://postimage.org/image/18z7ki24k/full/)
upload pngpng (http://www.postimage.org/)

Up and running

http://s3.postimage.org/4skn3ebs4/shot_20110807_011928.png (http://postimage.org/image/18ypdl8p0/full/)
upload gif (http://www.postimage.org/)

http://s3.postimage.org/milmvdhyb/shot_20110807_011926.png (http://postimage.org/image/18y0kj1ac/full/)
post image wordpress (http://www.postimage.org/)

I am trying to find out if it is fully functional but the only way is for someone to make a mission in which the power fails and then we can test the device :D.

[JG53Frankyboy]

Its mentioned in the manual.

And the crew member opening the door against the airflow had a good pasta lunch i guess ;)

[danjama]

Great stuff. Would love to see more of other birds.

[connie]

What planet are they flying over! LOL

[machoo]

Incredible landscape detail too....

[Tiger27]

Incredible landscape detail too....

True, but the fact that the terrain can be altered like this is a good thing as much as that map is a shocker.

[Pierre@]

Nice detail... But the door still opened in the airflow is an immersion killer ;)

[Pierre@]

And the crew member opening the door against the airflow had a good pasta lunch i guess ;)

I didn't notice your post, sorry ;)

[skouras]

thank you JG52Krupi
i didn't notice it
even that i fly it a couple of times:grin:

[Blackdog_kt]

The bombers have some interesting details since they're bigger and there's more stuff to model.

For example, using the "open canopy" command has a different effect in many cases, depending on the position you're sitting.

In the He111 you can open the pilot's top panel forward (like a windshield) and raise your seat (there's a separate command for that) to get a better view during taxi and take-off, just like it was possible to do historically.
Also, i seem to remember that the radiators need engine power to function. This means that you start your engines with the radiators shut and as soon as you start them you have to quickly open your rads.

Another example is the Blenheim. Switching to the turret position and pressing your "open canopy" keys will open a hatch forward of the turret. If you switch to external view and look through it, you can see the reconnaissance camera inside the aircraft.

Also, the turret doesn't move when you're on the ground with the engines switched off, you can't even toggle it between parked/cruise and firing position. The real Blenheim had an engine driven hydraulic pump, but it was not powerful enough to drive all systems at once. The pilot had a hydraulics selector, he would use it to power the gear and flaps during takeoff/landing, set it to off to prevent the pump from overheating during cruise and finally, set it to power the turret when nearing dangerous airspace.
So while the hydraulic controls are not modeled, the limitations of the system are automatically taken into account.


There's loads of subtle features like these (which are often confused for bugs when they are in fact exact representations of the actual aircraft's systems) that add quite a bit of character to each aircraft. It's one of my favorite aspects in the sim and the reason i get irritable when 9 out of 10 people only think in terms of graphics and direct ports of features from IL2, while there's so much undiscovered detail and capabilities of the new engine right beneath their noses :-P

[furbs]

Yes, and that's why we need proper documentation on the aircraft systems, it shouldn't be hit and miss, hide and seek.

You talked about the how good the DF system is, it probably is fantastic, but again without the FMB manual and documents its wasted at the moment, or its going to take much longer to try and work it out for ourselves.

[yellonet]

Yes, and that's why we need proper documentation on the aircraft systems, it shouldn't be hit and miss, hide and seek.

You talked about the how good the DF system is, it probably is fantastic, but again without the FMB manual and documents its wasted at the moment, or its going to take much longer to try and work it out for ourselves.Why not take it as a challenge instead, finding new things is fun!

Also, it seems that compiling lists of features like this is something that this community could be doing instead of other... *hrrm* less productive activities ;)

[Sternjaeger II]

yep, it's an emergency wind-powered generator, we Italians were well aware of the reliability of our gear ;-)

The interesting thing to see would be if the generator deployment affects airspeed, or if the door open (which again it would be very hard to open against the slipstream like that) would affect speed and cause drag on the yaw axis.

[Blackdog_kt]

I see it as a combination of what both of you said: documentation is needed, but in the absence of it i can take it as a challenge to see how much of it i can come up on my own ;-)

It has the welcome side-effect of helping other people too if i stumble upon something useful and it occupies my time with the sim nicely: i haven't even exhausted the limited single player content yet :-P

Don't quote me on this, but i have a faint memory of Luthier talking about improved documentation at some point. I guess it will probably come in one huge bundle of a PDF once they release the SDK.

[furbs]

Yellownet with respect, its not us that should have to do that, its the developers job.
And i think you know that anyway.
Yes, we should experiment and find things out for ourselves. Im just asking for something we need and has been promised since before release.

[Sternjaeger II]

I have the complete Br.20 operation manual, I scanned it long time ago and sent it to Oleg, so if you guys want it it's up for grabs :-) only thing is that it's in Italian! lol

Right, off to aviate, looking forward to some high performance aerobatics today (weather permitting!).

[yellonet]

Yellownet with respect, its not us that should have to do that, its the developers job.
And i think you know that anyway.
Yes, we should experiment and find things out for ourselves. Im just asking for something we need and has been promised since before release.
Of course we don't have to do it, and it is the developers job to supply these things.
But the reality is that we need documentation and that we have the ability do create this ourselves. So instead of just doing nothing and demanding official work, why not just shrug if off and start helping ourselves and others that need this info?

I think I'll go figure some things out right now!

Edit: Also, I think you're calling me yellow of purpose (joke ;))

[JG52Krupi]

yep, it's an emergency wind-powered generator, we Italians were well aware of the reliability of our gear ;-)

The interesting thing to see would be if the generator deployment affects airspeed, or if the door open (which again it would be very hard to open against the slipstream like that) would affect speed and cause drag on the yaw axis.

:D it must have been one of the first aircraft to have it, most military and larger airliners now use it!

Which is good given those "whoops no fuel" incidents :-?

[Bakelit]

Yes, and that's why we need proper documentation on the aircraft systems, it shouldn't be hit and miss, hide and seek.

You talked about the how good the DF system is, it probably is fantastic, but again without the FMB manual and documents its wasted at the moment, or its going to take much longer to try and work it out for ourselves.



It never made sense to me that features which have cost man hours are not well documented. One could for example have something like the FS2004 or FSX ingame documentation. You get a check list for starting and description what is different and why on your aircraft etc pp. That one feature I like very much to have in combat flight sims, too.

Not describing cool things or pecularities of the machine for the average user seems a total waste of time to me, programming wise...

[usr]

It never made sense to me that features which have cost man hours are not well documented. One could for example have something like the FS2004 or FSX ingame documentation. You get a check list for starting and description what is different and why on your aircraft etc pp. That one feature I like very much to have in combat flight sims, too.

Even a plain, sterile list of which of the total list of key/axis bindings are active in the current plane (at the current difficulty setting) would be a massive improvement. Ideally auto-populated from the actual programming/modelling, so that it never gets outdated with future patches.

[335th_GRAthos]

awesome!

Thanks for sharing this Kruppi!


~S~

[Danelov]

Yes, very nice. Only detail and is not only with this aircraft: the pilots or humans are too small and not in the right scale with the aircraft dimension.

[JG52Krupi]

awesome!

Thanks for sharing this Kruppi!


~S~

No problem thought I would share, there is a lot of cool stuff I have found on this forum thought i would add my 2 pence.

I'm waiting for Froggy from simhq to come online and produce a electrical generator mission and see if it is actually a fully functional RAT (RAM AIR TURBINE) :D

http://i.imgur.com/SaQ10.png

List of damage he provided if you look on the first column ElecGeneratorFailure is hopefully the one I need.

[Baron]

I have the complete Br.20 operation manual, I scanned it long time ago and sent it to Oleg, so if you guys want it it's up for grabs :-) only thing is that it's in Italian! lol

Right, off to aviate, looking forward to some high performance aerobatics today (weather permitting!).


Just out of interest, how many pages is it, the original i mean?

[ATAG_Bliss]

I know right. Without turning your settings up it looks about as bad as ROF does on the ground. (especially nasty if you pull up next to a tree or building) Talk about butt ugly and brutal. Thankfully, when you turn up your settings in this sim, it blows the competition out of the water.

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/8467/explosion1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/explosion1.jpg/)

[Ekar]

I know right. Without turning your settings up it looks about as bad as ROF does on the ground. (especially nasty if you pull up next to a tree or building) Talk about butt ugly and brutal. Thankfully, when you turn up your settings in this sim, it blows the competition out of the water.


You mean to say, at highest settings- when taken from the same view as the OP's screens at the same time of day, things look remarkably better?

I'd agree with you that the detail on the ground with vegetation looks nice, but I think you're being a just little disingenuous about the capability of CloD's terrain engine currently.

[Untamo]

S!

What exactly was this impeller used to power? Hydraulics to lower gear in case of engine failure?

[JG52Krupi]

S!

What exactly was this impeller used to power? Hydraulics to lower gear in case of engine failure?

Im hoping to find out exactly what it will power in the BR 20 but for modern aircraft it powers all the essential controls and probably the undercarriage but that does have a emergency gravity drop in case of failure.

[Sternjaeger II]

Just out of interest, how many pages is it, the original i mean?

I'm at work now so I don't have it at hand, but roughly 200 pages?

It's interesting because it explains all the components of the plane, the systems and the procedures, it was very well made and quite exhaustive for its times.

[JG52Krupi]

I'm at work now so I don't have it at hand, but roughly 200 pages?

It's interesting because it explains all the components of the plane, the systems and the procedures, it was very well made and quite exhaustive for its times.

Could you shine some light on the impeller/rat, would love to find out what it powered.. Just the crucial system after failure or the turrets as well!

[Sternjaeger II]

Could you shine some light on the impeller/rat, would love to find out what it powered.. Just the crucial system after failure or the turrets as well!

will have a look at it when I go back home today, my wild guess is that's just like a modern APU though.

[JG52Uther]

Do you have any G-50 pilots notes sternjaeger?

[Sternjaeger II]

Do you have any G-50 pilots notes sternjaeger?

probably no pilot notes (although I might, I need to check), but maybe the manual. You guys might have to remind me later this afternoon though, my brain is somewhere else today LOL

[JG52Krupi]

Okay well from my testing of the RAT I cannot get it to work.... :pitchafit:

Begs the question why they animated it.. hopefully it will work in future.

However this experiment was not a total loss I did come across another very cool bit of detail...

This shows engine 0 seized...

http://s3.postimage.org/cg8nalm8k/shot_20110808_182951.png (http://postimage.org/image/1teu56ds4/full/)
png upload (http://www.postimage.org/)

You cannot lower gear!!

This shows engine 1 seized...

http://s3.postimage.org/qmoj4fylu/shot_20110808_183522.png (http://postimage.org/image/1tez3sf9g/full/)
image uploading (http://www.postimage.org/)

And you can deploy the gear so they have modelled which engine controls each system.. So now I will be finding out if this is true the other two engine aircraft and then make a note of which engine controls the hydraulics and hey presto in a fight if I at least knock that particular engine out they have a surprise in store when it comes to landing time :grin:

[Sternjaeger II]

ok, so I was right about the number of pages, circa 200 with covers and all.

As for the generator, I am still reading through it, the manual is a bit confusing (there's SO much information), but I can tell you that apparently the external one was the main generator, not an emergency one. The emergency one was actually connected to the compressor inside the plane, which normally is used for the startup (the system using compressed air).
Another interesting aspect is that the turrets were hydraulic, which means that if your system got damaged, you had no means of moving them around (!!!)

The landing gear system is hydraulic too, but it's another circuit and I'm trying to understand where the thing was fed from, there was a manual gear lever system though.

Apparently the plane also had a heating system for the cabin, and the rear main door could be jettisoned before abandoning the plane.

[robtek]

As for other twins, the Bf110 has the hydraulik pump operated by the right engine -> right engine stopped -> no flaps and gear.

[JG52Uther]

As for other twins, the Bf110 has the hydraulik pump operated by the right engine -> right engine stopped -> no flaps and gear.

Thats true, just got my right engine shot out on SYN, and had to belly land!

[Stefem]

I have the complete Br.20 operation manual, I scanned it long time ago and sent it to Oleg, so if you guys want it it's up for grabs :-) only thing is that it's in Italian! lol

Right, off to aviate, looking forward to some high performance aerobatics today (weather permitting!).
Non è un grosso problema :)

[Sternjaeger II]

Non è un grosso problema :)

hehe not a big problem for Italians maybe ;-)