Your CLOD rating...(before)

[furbs]

I thought with a major patch coming shortly, that this would be a good point to do a before/after patch rating for COD.
It would also give the developers a good idea of how good the patch is.

So....right now, what is your personal rating of COD.

-- Forum members have voted and COD has a forum rating of 56% for now.

il do another poll 2 weeks after we get the next patch.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Better than any other WWII combat flight sim out there at the moment, but with some annoying issues that will hopefully be resolved before too long.

What are the criteria to base our judgements on?

Cheers!

[5./JG27 Lehmann]

Skoshi is spot on, same feeling here.

[Phazon]

I'd give it a 50, mainly because I see the game as half complete. The flight model, complex engine management and damage model make up the majority of that rating. What detracts from it is the long list of bugs, and areas of the game that feel unfinished so far.

Some bug fixes and polish would go a long way, moreso the polish which this game sorely needs now we've got alot of the real severe technical issues sorted.

[Dano]

Skoshi is spot on, same feeling here.

+1

[skouras]

I'd give it a 50, mainly because I see the game as half complete. The flight model, complex engine management and damage model make up the majority of that rating. What detracts from it is the long list of bugs, and areas of the game that feel unfinished so far.

Some bug fixes and polish would go a long way, moreso the polish which this game sorely needs now we've got alot of the real severe technical issues sorted.

agreed

[JG52Krupi]

I gave if 70 I'm sure we will receive what was promised, I am enjoying the game it just needs better fps and the fm's need to be revised.

[klem]

Better than any other WWII combat flight sim out there at the moment, but with some annoying issues that will hopefully be resolved before too long.

What are the criteria to base our judgements on?

Cheers!

Welll here's mine:

FMs 60(generally working fine but need to fix half-wing flying etc and too many FMs allegedly off-target. And were are my Rotol Spits?)
DMs 70 (ok for me but I understand there are some strange issues like trees and bushed as damaged a/c parts).
Sound 40 (Naff sounds and the sound bug)
Graphics 70 (includes in-game settings, high potential but disappointed with results from my GTX570 and hoping optimisation will improve it past generally 'High' with medium buildings, no SSAO, forest or shadows and a few other bits in settings for me)
FMB 60 (Basic missions easy enough but struggling without documentation especially on Scripting)
Campaign 60 (came with game, its ok but not very stimulating and the reported Text results ("you crashed you first spitfire" etc. ) don't agree with actual achievents (I didn't crash my first spitfire)
GUI 80 (its not bad)
Info windows 90 (could be a bit more flexible on content and could use more info like Tail numbers in Stats listing)
Multiplayer 60 (based on CoD-ability limiting server providers options and therefore servers and players and the lack of a MMP aspect which I believe should have been a priority for CoD)
(60+70+40+70+60+60+80+90+60)/9 = 65.555--->>> voted 70 (just)

Which is actually what I estimated from my gut feeling about the game.

[Doc_uk]

You forgot to add 0 to the poll

[Phazon]

You forgot to add 0 to the poll

Oooooh, burned! :-P

[JG52Krupi]

Really surprised by th number of 50 especially given the amount of work that anybody that has eyes can see has gone into creating this game.... Wtf.

[Phazon]

Really surprised by th number of 50 especially given the amount of work that anybody that has eyes can see has gone into creating this game.... Wtf.

Well maybe when we have Spitfires and Bf-109s that don't sound identical to each other people might change their mind. ;)

The game is complete in terms of the aircraft included, but you can't say the terrain, coast, the skies and clouds, the sounds and not to mention the water in the channel itself is 100% finished and polished. Not to mention a complete lack of ships for anti-shipping missions.

And lordy don't start with the bugs!

[Blackdog_kt]

I'm giving it a 70.


Immersion-enhancing features: I'm almost completely satisfied with the overall graphics quality, in terms of what needs improvement new sounds and an AA fix are in the pipeline.

Cosmetic features: No need for them. A cosmetic feature is actually an immersion enhancing feature that's been taken too far, usually to the detriment of other aspects of the sim. Graphics and sounds are important to create immersion in a realistic manner, not movie-like effects in an arbitrary one.
In other words, i like pretty pictures too but i don't consider graphics and sounds alone to be the most important part of it: on their own they would only give us an arcade game with aircraft, not a combat flight sim.

Under the wrapping (the important, yet easy to notice parts): The aircraft fly in a believable manner and the damage model is well researched, detailed and progressive (fires spreading, secondary failures, etc). Bugs exist that need to be fixed and some tweaking is needed, we've got some already in previous patches so i'm optimistic the rest will come.

The meat of it all: This is actually things that most people fail to notice, or completely lack the imagination to foresee what can be done with them. The amount and quality of stuff that can be done with the support for scripting in missions is insane, not to mention the support for directly integrating custom-made modules in the sim with their own interface. Sadly, many are too hung up on carrying over their old IL2 habits and miss these capabilities, or confuse legitimate features for bugs, but we'll gradually get there.

Long story short, i would give it an 80 if not for the existence of bugs that affect actual gameplay, that is flying the planes and doing what they are supposed to be doing, otherwise it runs pretty enough and stable on my two year old PC already, it's the gameplay issues that i'm after currently.

These bugs would drop my rating between 65-70 but i'm cutting some slack and giving it a 70 because of all the cool stuff that most people routinely fail to notice while they are focusing on issues that have already been done to death :grin:

[Sammi79]

70 - the best I can give it right now.

Waiting patiently for the patch ;)

[SacaSoh]

70... i can enjoy the sim, but only as an "over the channel 6x6 skirmish generator".

[Feathered_IV]

I gave it a generous 60. Clod is still a weird mix of obsessive detail, placeholders and broken features.

This poll is going to be a great snapshot of the current build. Will be interesting to see how it compares this time next year.

[klem]

Really surprised by th number of 50 especially given the amount of work that anybody that has eyes can see has gone into creating this game.... Wtf.

I don't think anyone underestimates the work that has already gone into it, that is clear for anyone who stops and thinks about it. The poll is more a reflection of how well we think it is working at the moment.

There's probably about 10-15% more work required (a pure guess) from the last patch and when its all done that should take the poll from an average 60 to 90+. Well, we expect it too before they stop work on CoD (the first release of "SoW"). Future 'parts' of SoW will benefit from most of the core work done on CoD so hopefully will be much less painful.

[JG52Uther]

I gave it a 50.Some parts of it ARE brilliant, such as the cockpits,but its obvious there is a lot to be done, and everything just feels so 'clunky' now, GUI, multiplayer, even the QMB is not as good as il2. If I didn't know it was made by MG/1C I would think it was made by another company.
Lets hope we can improve on the scores after the next patch.

[Rattlehead]

I scored it a 60, for now.

The meat of the game is present. There is so much attention to detail and so much obvious painstaking research and commitment to delivering an authentic WW2 simulator that it's mind-boggling. When I'm up there flying, I'm pretty immersed by the whole experience.

But you can't ignore it's shortcomings at present either. It's very, very unpolished at present, and whether it's a sim or not, made by a small team or not, it has to be compared to other video games out there.

That is the way I approached this thread... I totally understand the circumstances and challenges in creating a product like this in this market, but many people, many of whom are not hardcore simmers, will pick up this game and simply want to fly without hassle.
Without the much-needed polish, much of the true genius of this game will go unnoticed by many.

[furbs]

What are the criteria to base our judgements on?

Cheers!


That's up to you tiger, its a personal score.

I will do another in 6 months and we can see where we are then.

[Danelov]

Cod is like a good wine. Need a slow and patience maduration process of some years to be full appreciate in his right value. Actually is between a grape syrup and some sort of Beaujolais nouveau. Patience is the way.

[Feathered_IV]

Cod is like a good wine. Need a slow and patience maduration process of some years to be full appreciate in his right value. Actually is between a grape syrup and some sort of Beaujolais nouveau. Patience is the way.

Cheese and whine?

[ParaB]

For an average gamer: 60

For a flightsim fan: 70

[retrojet]

I think it's at 70%...
A perfect patch would be worth another 20%, but my present rig will never allow for 100% perfection...

And I don't have the dosh to upgrade anytime soon! Real life comes before realism, I'm afraid... :rolleyes:

But, as others have said, there's nothing else out there to touch it... Yet!

Still having fun, just getting off the ground! :-D

[JG53Frankyboy]

for a Flight- and Weapontestcenter Pilot - 100%
for a combat Pilot - 10%

[DB605]

60 for now but i'm sure in 2012 or 2013 i can give it 90.

[David Hayward]

I gave it a 100, but only because 200 was not an option.

[FFCW_Urizen]

i voted 70(65): in singleplayer, the behaviour of the AI is erratic, hence the reason i never flew a quicksortie, but multiplayer on the other hand, for a long time i hadn´t such an adrenalinekick, than i had in a df against a human opponent.
so sp flop, mp almost top.

[Flanker35M]

S!

60% and solely for the plane models + cockpits and some effects. There is a lot of work to do before CoD reaches it's potential. At the moment laughable number of online players and MP itself riddled with issues.

CoD can, and hopefully will be the de facto flight sim for years to come but before that Luthier and Team need to do a lot of work. Maybe some day..but until then 60%.

[LcSummers]

I am giving it 70. Its the best WWII sim but with many bugs to be ironed out.

It has a great potential in the future when settings are working, promotions, campaign, sounds etc.

I tried to switch back to IL2 1946 but cant do it. CLOD is far better, so i can hope that patches will tune it up.

[Viper2000]

If I'm generous, 45%; I think it's a half-completed 90% sim. I guess it'll be done in about 2017; but by then it'll probably only be about a 75% rating if we assume 3% inflation...

Haven't played for quite a while now, and don't expect to until there's a major patch. Just popped into the forum to see if there had been any developments or updates and it would appear not so I'll go back to other stuff.

I doubt I shall be pre-ordering anything from 1C again because the expected level of communication, updates, and patch progress hasn't materialised, so I might as well have waited for it to hit the bargain bin.

I am not so bothered by the unfinished state of the sim, or even the lack of progress, as by the lack of consistent updates.

It's pretty simple to type a paragraph a week saying "we did this; it went ok; next week we'll try doing that...".

If a simple update like this cannot be achieved on a weekly basis, then that doesn't exactly inspire much confidence that the really difficult tasks (finding the bugs, fixing the bugs, adding missing content without adding a disproportionate number of further bugs) are actually getting achieved.

Providing updates obviously consumes time which might be used for working on the code, but 15 minutes a week isn't much; 0.625% of a 40 hour week. And we're given to believe that 1C are working much harder than that. So really, a small weekly update would represent an insignificant investment of time, and would greatly increase confidence that things will get better.

It is that confidence that will keep the community going until the sim is genuinely functional (ie until it reaches the point at which the critics consider re-reviewing it), so that there is a good MP experience available to drive sales, especially sales of additional expansions, which will presumably be where 1C starts to really make some return on their investment.

This is important, because I for one won't be jumping to buy any such expansion unless and until it may be demonstrated that the current sim is finished. What I mean by this is that 1C don't even need to finish the current sim for free; they could fix it as part of a paid expansion, and provided that the price is not more than a normal full-price game, I'd probably buy it. But, and this is crucial, I would only buy such an expansion after reading good reviews, because I'm not chucking good money after bad.

Anyway, I'm off again. See you again in 2 weeks or whenever a patch comes out...

[Pudfark]

I gave it a 40....
Cuz, if it were a parachute?
I wouldn't jump with it.....

However, it ain't a parachute...
It's a game...with problems unresolved.
No definitive resolution to the problems...
No time table and No communication...
I gave it a 40....

So much like the fella with the parachute that didn't work?
I don't care why it doesn't work...
I just wanted it to....
SPLAT...!

[roadczar]

50% at best, not worth wasting time until fixed.
Not happy with 1C as a company either.

[ParaB]

Pretty devastating ratings so far, considering the devs by now had four months since release to fix it.

[JG52Krupi]

Pretty devastating ratings so far, considering the devs by now had four months since release to fix it.

Its running MUCH better than it did at release!

[David Hayward]

Pretty devastating ratings so far, considering the devs by now had four months since release to fix it.

On a scale from 0-100, how devastating is it?

[ParaB]

@Krupi: Well, that's not surprising since the game was basically unplayable for me when released. :grin:

@David: for you, over 9000. At least. :rolleyes:

[JG52Krupi]

Inadvertently from this poll the mods could select all the poeple from both 0-10 and 90-100 and ban them and this forum would be much better ;)

[David Hayward]

They could also ban the person who posted the troll poll and this forum would be much better. ;)

[adonys]

an average of 54.04% after 114 votes

I guess that say it all..

[Chivas]

At the moment the sim is 70% at best, although my multiplayer experiences have been quite enjoyable. The good news is the developer appears to be hard at work and the long range plan hasn't changed. If the new game engine is capable of what the developer hopes to achieve, the sim can easily reach over 90% in the coming months and years. I'm just not sure possible new customers will be able to see past the toxic waste land of the forums.

[David Hayward]

an average of 54.04% after 114 votes

I guess that say it all..

It also says nothing at all.

[Ze-Jamz]

I went for 70..

[JG52Krupi]

It also says nothing at all.

If your deaf... d**b... and blind yes i would agree...

[Jaws2002]

I like the game and play it when i have time, but i had to give it a 40%.:(

There are just too many bugs and so far very poor record with the fixes.
We kept getting patches that "fixed" the full screen and the bloody thing is still messed up. Some flight models have a very strong resemblance to il-2, wich makes one think of a simple copy and paste job. Even the bugs in Il-2 were transfered over. Bf-110 behaviour at 500km/h is a strong example.
GUI quite bad and non intuitive. The first thing everyone asks when joining a multiplayer game is how can I select a plane.
The sound of course is a mess. Multiplayer bugs are everywhere and so on.

Another big disapointment is communication. Specially for the outside Russia market. Complete blackout.

Nobody from the developement team posted anything on UBI in about three years! That's the home of the game for the new international customers. Until they find this place anyway.

I know, many of you would say, that is Ubi's forum, UBIs job. Well, the things were the same with Il-2 and Oleg posted there constantly for over six years.
That's no good excuse to abandon the home for international community. That's where new users go first time.

Even before the release, you had to go dig on Russian sites, not related to the game, like Sukhoi.ru, to find new info posted by the developers.

Sorry, but the communication with the customers is complete garbage. :(

So, as much as I like some aspects of the game, I can't give it anything over 40% right now.

[David Hayward]

If your deaf... d**b... and blind yes i would agree...

No matter what numbers you toss out, it's completely meaningless. Does a 40 mean the next update is any closer than a 60? Is a 20 more likely to get Luthier to post banjo music or a kazoo band?

[baronWastelan]

BoB+Il-2-Oleg=50%

[JG52Uther]

I like the game and play it when i have time, but i had to give it a 40%.:(

There are just too many bugs and so far very poor record with the fixes.
We kept getting patches that "fixed" the full screen and the bloody thing is still messed up. Some flight models have a very strong resemblance to il-2, wich makes one think of a simple copy and paste job. Even the bugs in Il-2 were transfered over. Bf-110 behaviour at 500km/h is a strong example.
GUI quite bad and non intuitive. The first thing everyone asks when joining a multiplayer game is how can I select a plane.
The sound of course is a mess. Multiplayer bugs are everywhere and so on.

Another big disapointment is communication. Specially for the outside Russia market. Complete blackout.

Nobody from the developement team posted anything on UBI in about three years! That's the home of the game for the new international customers. Until they find this place anyway.

I know, many of you would say, that is Ubi's forum, UBIs job. Well, the things were the same with Il-2 and Oleg posted there constantly for over six years.
That's no good excuse to abandon the home for international community. That's where new users go first time.

Even before the release, you had to go dig on Russian sites, not related to the game, like Sukhoi.ru, to find new info posted by the developers.

Sorry, but the communication with the customers is complete garbage. :(

So, as much as I like some aspects of the game, I can't give it anything over 40% right now.

Jaws, the devs are not on the Russian forums either! The Russians didn't even get the banjo update, just complete silence...

[furbs]

Luthier has not even signed in at the Russian forum since the 1st of july.

[Robotic Pope]

A rumur is they were all abducted by Alien IL-2 fans and are now being subjected to many probings.

[flyingblind]

60 from me. What is there is brilliant. Especially the CEM, the cockpits and shadows, the damage models and the general atmosphere of being up there. At lot still to be done though. Sounds, the water especially coastlines, some of the flight models and multiplay. Plus numerous little glitches and irritations. When they are fixed as I am sure they will then probably 90. No sim will ever be perfect - the trees for instance, but hey.

[baronWastelan]

I would have voted 70 if the devs didn't act as though they hate the people here who have paid for CloD.

[David Hayward]

I would have voted 70 if the devs didn't act as though they hate the people here who have paid for CloD.

I added 20 points to my vote for that, so it all evens out.

[ATAG_Doc]

What is this patch suppose to patch?

[Langnasen]

Where's the option for zero?:confused:

[Jatta Raso]

my's on 60 right now, though i see potential to grow to 90

[Tree_UK]

voted 20, game is very bugged, a few good bits but I voted it down due to the awful development team, i have no trust left in them at all and they deserve to go bust.

[Feathered_IV]

Are there any original members of the team left now. Or has the lineup of Maddox Games changed completely since the Forgotten Battles days?

[Thee_oddball]

If your deaf... d**b... and blind yes i would agree...

enhance you calm john spartan..enhance your calm ;-)

S!

[Chivas]

Apparently there is still a few left from the original team, but I couldn't find the team member lists. Even if the team isn't exactly the same doesn't mean the sim will be a flop. Companies change team members all the time and still build quality products. CODs only fault is that it was released before it was finished, for obvious financial reasons. Although some would suggest they released the sim early to garner as much negative feedback as possible. :)

[Thee_oddball]

50..to many problems spread across the entire game.

S!

[BRIGGBOY]

Better than any other WWII combat flight sim out there at the moment, but with some annoying issues that will hopefully be resolved before too long.

What are the criteria to base our judgements on?

Cheers!

i think you have pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[Pudfark]

Apparently there is still a few left from the original team, but I couldn't find the team member lists. Even if the team isn't exactly the same doesn't mean the sim will be a flop. Companies change team members all the time and still build quality products. CODs only fault is that it was released before it was finished, for obvious financial reasons. Although some would suggest they released the sim early to garner as much negative feedback as possible. :)

lol....that did give me a smile...Thanx..

[Blackdog_kt]

Ok, moderator mode on...


This has the potential to be a somewhat useful poll and if more are done in the future they could also serve as a sort of comparative progress-meter, as long as people stick to a dry, reporting, "clinical" style in their posts and avoid the confrontational cliches.


In other words, posting an opinion is ok but "enforcing" it on others is not:

Topic:
"This is my rating of the sim, plus some words about why i mark it that way, i like this and this, i don't like such and such, this is my personal interpretation of the vote distribution that i'm voicing in a nice manner that's not provocative to others"

Off-topic:
"1c deserves to go broke/become millionaires"
"it's the fault of person A/B/C/whatever"
"i know/don't know how they released such a masterpiece/mess"
"they stole our money to buy vodka/no our money went to charity because they are good guys"
poorly worded one-liners to the tune of "it's a joke"/"no it's not you are" that don't explain anything about why the poster is so adamant in his opinion
rude, provocative or offensive comments/wording in an otherwise on-topic post


and similar personal opinions, conjecture and speculation that are not shared by all, can't be factually proven but are argued as if they can and most of all, have been repeated ad nauseum.

The on-topic stuff is useful and stays, the off-topic stuff is edited by the original poster or gets moved to the arguments megathread as soon as i wake up tomorrow.

Moderator mode off




Interesting opinions and a bit reassuring to see that most people are being reasonable in their judgement of the sim. I too find the amount of 50s a bit much, but we also have quite a few 60s and 70s.

The way i read this trend it looks to me like this: for a lot of people things are so and so (the 50 score bracket), for the majority things are better than average (the 60+ score bracket) with half of them being even more positive, while the amount of people who are overly positive/negative are a definite minority.

I think the poll results thus far are an accurate overall reflection, in the sense that while it's far from perfect it's no dog either, plus it's in a workable state for the majority of users.

[NedLynch]

Giving it a 70.

Good things: fully interactive cockpit, graphics (cockpit, planes, water, sky, suneffects and moving shadows in cockpit, landscape and buildings...hmmmm),
fightmodel, CEM, damage model, best game to work with my Track IR (extremely smooth and responsive), just love flying the planes.

things that need improvement: numerous bugs, optimization (couds cut my fps more than in half), contend/ DCG (extremely important for me)

[Stealth_Eagle]

I gave it a 90 since it runs fairly well on my modest system below (please disregard the question part) but has a good amount of room to improve and so far I have encountered occasional glitches that it has. I currently run everything on high except land quality (something like that) which is medium with average FPS over London in solo flight about 25 with no stutters.

[nearmiss]

Looks like a good poll to me.

We have a pretty good cross section of users with varying system setups.

[Blackdog_kt]

Slight thread clean-up performed to prune the off-topic tangent discussion, posts moved here: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=25051&page=12

If anyone feels the need to continue said discussion by all means do so, but in the provided thread. ;-)

[connie]

Ok, moderator mode on...


This has the potential to be a somewhat useful poll and if more are done in the future they could also serve as a sort of comparative progress-meter, as long as people stick to a dry, reporting, "clinical" style in their posts and avoid the confrontational cliches.


In other words, posting an opinion is ok but "enforcing" it on others is not:

Topic:
"This is my rating of the sim, plus some words about why i mark it that way, i like this and this, i don't like such and such, this is my personal interpretation of the vote distribution that i'm voicing in a nice manner that's not provocative to others"

Off-topic:
"1c deserves to go broke/become millionaires"
"it's the fault of person A/B/C/whatever"
"i know/don't know how they released such a masterpiece/mess"
"they stole our money to buy vodka/no our money went to charity because they are good guys"
poorly worded one-liners to the tune of "it's a joke"/"no it's not you are" that don't explain anything about why the poster is so adamant in his opinion
rude, provocative or offensive comments/wording in an otherwise on-topic post


and similar personal opinions, conjecture and speculation that are not shared by all, can't be factually proven but are argued as if they can and most of all, have been repeated ad nauseum.

The on-topic stuff is useful and stays, the off-topic stuff is edited by the original poster or gets moved to the arguments megathread as soon as i wake up tomorrow.

Moderator mode off




Interesting opinions and a bit reassuring to see that most people are being reasonable in their judgement of the sim. I too find the amount of 50s a bit much, but we also have quite a few 60s and 70s.

The way i read this trend it looks to me like this: for a lot of people things are so and so (the 50 score bracket), for the majority things are better than average (the 60+ score bracket) with half of them being even more positive, while the amount of people who are overly positive/negative are a definite minority.

I think the poll results thus far are an accurate overall reflection, in the sense that while it's far from perfect it's no dog either, plus it's in a workable state for the majority of users.

More people give it 10 than 100 90 80 combined. Thats kinda disturbing.

[klem]

voted 20, game is very bugged, a few good bits but I voted it down due to the awful development team, i have no trust left in them at all and they deserve to go bust.

Have to disagree with you there Tree.

The poll is about the state of the game as it is now. Our assessment of the team can come from the state of the game after the next big patch at which point we can also give our revised assessment of the game itself. We should separate the two.

My interim assessment of the team, following the previous patches, is reasonable in that they were quick to fix a few things that could be fixed quickly. How well they are getting to grips with the rest will come from the next patch, they are taking their time to work on it. My assessment of their communication style is, as you know, pretty bleak.

How do you assess the game as it stands now?

btw I don't deserve to have them go bust.

[klem]

More people give it 10 than 100 90 80 combined. Thats kinda disturbing.

I'm not surprised as there is a wide spread of hardware, OS's, settings and setup knowledge.

In any case, it is an opinion poll and the results are bound to be subjective. Its sometimes hard to split emotion from objective assessment and lets be honest, the current state of CoD is raising some emotions. That's why I set out my scores in a such way that I could try to be objective and calculate a result rather than go only on gut feeling.

The poll is not a definitive assessment of the technical condition of the game as there can be no unique definition of hardware, OS environment, setup etc.

Nevertheless its a reasonable guide to this forum community's opinion and an insight into how the they are coping with it.

EDIT: I think MG should be encouraged by what they see, there is a concentration of opinion around the "not particularly good but recoverable" area. It could all have been down in the 20's indicating imminent demise of the patient. I just hope people remain as objective and unemotional as possible in their assessment.

[Bryan21cag]

hmm had to think hard on this question.
For me its really comes down to how this game stacks up against IL2 46, as 46 is in my opinion the only other WWII flight sim that I Still think was better then all the ones that came before it :)

The things that CLOD has the edge or Potential Edge on
......
1. FM (potential)(This really falls under playability category for me. I just don't feel like the FM is as solid and Especially don't really feel the difference between aircraft that I do with IL2 46. In CLOD it's there but its so subtle that if the cockpit didn't look different I probably would not notice I was in a different plane. Where as in IL2 46 if you removed the cockpit there seems to me to be a whole different feel to every plane that is much more noticeable.

2. DM (already awesome in my opinion with very little tweaking needed)

3. Over all Better Updated Graphics (although I am still not very impressed with how my Mid High machine handles the graphics but I will reserve final judgement on this until after 99% of the optimization is done as I'm hoping for it to improve)

4. Customization (Potential) I.E. Weapons Load out, In Flight Order system, Realism options etc. ALL of these when finished will be Hands down an improvement over IL2 46

5. Interactive cockpit (still kind of gimmicky for me but when i land or before take off it does feel a little more like im in the cockpit when i actually open and close the the hood in a spit or hurri :) Every once in a while while im flying any flight sim Except ROF for obvious reasons, I get hot while flying and for an instant have the urge to click open the vents until rational thought takes over and pause the game to go turn the fan on lol :) its the little things i guess lol ) maybe in the future.

Where IL2 46 still has the advantage for me............

1. Offline Content (This has equal weight to me as playability in my opinion and I actually feel that if CLOD was just as playable for me as it is now but with more content I would definitely play it more often)

2. Playability ( The DM goes rite to CLOD but even though the FM will be better in CLOD some day as of now the one in IL2 46 to me feels completely solid and predictable. When I transition from one plane to another I notice all the subtle differences Climb rate, dive rate, turn rate, compressibility factors effect of the weapon kick based on position of the gun and all those things that remind me that I am in a totally different plane not just the look of the cockpit. CLOD still has a ways to go for me in this area but has the potential to be stunning when finished where as IL2 46 is already as good as it is going to get. :)

3. Sounds (This actually gives IL2 46 an unfair advantage at the moment because while i do think that CLOD stock sounds are better or equal to IL2 46 stock sounds I am using UP 3.0 which in my opinion uses way better sounds both gun and engine then any WWII flight sim I have ever played. (VERY IMMERSIVE). I love the way radials start up and sound with the UP 3 mod especially. Any way Until CLOD is to the point where Modders are making there own templates for theses types of things I suspect the stock sounds when done will be better then IL2 46 but maybe not better then the Modded ones. Again i will reserve final judgement on this for when the re done sounds come out. Maybe they will be phenomenal you never know :)

That is pretty much how i came to my 50% rating. It just needs to be better at those three major things and for me its no contest to switch over. But when i get the urge to fly (which is after I watch any WWII movie or documentary on TCM or BBC :P I still jump on Good old IL2 to get my rush :)

Great Thread by the way I really like some of the detailed descriptions people gave. thought i would add mine :)

[Blackdog_kt]

Giving whatever marks you want is obviously ok (it's a personal opinion), however the posts that go into some detail are more useful than others to the onlookers.

I'm not saying there's unreasonable marks because the whole thing is highly subjective on many areas (for example, i agree with quite a chunk of Bryan 21cag's post, but i gave it a 70 while he gave it a 50), but it would help make things more believable for the rest if posters who deviate strongly from the majority took some time to say why.

What i'm trying to say is, if i see a 10 followed by a one-liner my mental alarm bells tell me "disgruntled customer wanting to raise some waves", just like if i see a 100 that equally lacks explanation makes me thing "knight in shining armor defending his favorite software no matter what": it seems like an emotionally charged judgement, emotions in such a process create bias and make us drift from objectivity in our results and as such, i remain thoroughly unconvinced by them.

It feels like the people who grade and justify their grades as such (ie, in a lacking manner) are primarily trying to get a reaction instead of giving a personal but objective-based judgement.

As for how the marks are chosen, i have a feeling the poll is about the game's current state, not how it was released or the team's managing of communication or the project in general. In other words, the game on an "as is" basis, how do we rank that.

I might be wrong, i don't know, it just seemed to me from how most of the people justified the marks they gave and the talk of having further such polls in the future that they were trying to get "snapshots" of the game's state at different points in development (which means judging the game on its flaws and merits at the current juncture for each such poll), so i went with it. Maybe it would be a good idea to clarify this for future polls.

Other than that, interesting discussion all around and i agree with the people who said things are not exactly terrible. As the poll goes thus far the little bars tell me things are "average towards good", which is a far cry from what we've been hearing by overly negative/positive posters. In other words, it seems we have a reasonable community majority for the most part even if they are not that loud on the forums and seem under-represented at times.

[furbs]

Yep, that's exactly what i wanted this poll to be. A snap shot of COD right now by the members of this forum. nothing more nothing less.

When(or if) we get the next patch we can do the poll again.

Though to my eyes the average score is about 57% and to me that's a poor score for a sim thats been out for 6 months and had 4 patches.

Lets hope we see a marked improvement with the next patch.

[JG52Krupi]

Yep, that's exactly what i wanted this poll to be. A snap shot of COD right now by the members of this forum. nothing more nothing less.

When(or if) we get the next patch we can do the poll again.

Though to my eyes the average score is about 57% and to me that's a poor score for a sim thats been out for 6 months and had 4 patches.

Lets hope we see a marked improvement with the next patch.

is that average taking into account the 10% and 100% numpty's?

Either way get on the syndicate server :D

[Rattlehead]

More people give it 10 than 100 90 80 combined. Thats kinda disturbing.

I feel extremely high scores (100) or extremely low scores (10) should be chucked out of the poll as they're (in my opinion) agenda driven.

Anyone who has spent ten minutes with this sim can tell you it doesn't deserve either score.

[Tree_UK]

I think the people who voted 10 are reacting to the dev's more than the sim, obviously the people that voted 100 are potential Luthier stalkers (check your back garden out Luthier). That said 49.02% of people have voted 50 or lower, which reflects how badly this game as been recieved.

[miky]

That said 49.02% of people have voted 50 or lower
Or that said 70.24% of people have voted 50 or higher.
Sorry, couldn't resist :)

[furbs]

any math types want to do a average score? do two, one with all scores counted and one with 10,20 90,100 taken out?

[Jatta Raso]

here you go,

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8940/capturewj.png

[klem]

any math types want to do a average score? do two, one with all scores counted and one with 10,20 90,100 taken out?

This is a fairly typical approach to statistical analysis, removing the extremes especially when you know that they can't really reflect the original question or they are uncharacteristically out of synch with the general picture.

here you go,

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8940/capturewj.png

For the 30's to 80's that's an average of 56.03

[furbs]

thanks klem. il update my first post.

[connie]

Average 56.06%
Mean 50%
Most popular score 60%

Quite low no matter how you cut it.

[Bryan21cag]

I'm not saying there's unreasonable marks because the whole thing is highly subjective on many areas (for example, i agree with quite a chunk of Bryan 21cag's post, but i gave it a 70 while he gave it a 50), but it would help make things more believable for the rest if posters who deviate strongly from the majority took some time to say why.

LOL well to be fair in my mind 50 was the highest score i could give when I still prefer to play IL2 46 over it :) If I was to rate just its potential to be better then IL2 46 in the future It would have been quite a bit higher :) But from what the OP wrote I did not take this as his meaning :)

And if this poll would have went up the month after release then I may have been a bit more emotional about it but as it stands the money has long been spent and there is no competition out there for the same product type at the moment so for me the longer it goes on the easier it is for me to wait and be objective about the fixes:)

That said I can not fault anyone who is still holding a grudge as I am equally capable of doing just that....... LOL its been 5 years and I still wish evil things on Dell for the Bollox they pulled on me and that's even after they finally did the right thing lol ....took em bloody long enough ..... but I digress... oops :P

I must say that even if these numbers do not really reflect every flight sim gamer in the world, kind of like polls that get taken at election time :) for me i was surprised at how many people, of the ones that participated fell into the 50-70 zone :) If i would have guessed the outcome prior I would have put a lot more people closer to each extreme rather then smack in the middle :) very interesting :)

Now,.. after reading the update I was very please to find that all the major bits on my list are proposed to be included so if all goes well the good news would be that my next score would not just be higher, but higher because I would then have fewer reasons left to not play CLOD over IL2 46 and that would be a very good thing indeed :) (with the exception of offline content of course which I know will be a long time coming) :)

Again excellent thread :) It combines my favorite things about these forums having a chuckle at the slap fights, interesting information and different opinions :)

Cheers all :)

[klem]

thanks klem. il update my first post.

np. I just did the numbers.

However I think the 10s could reasonably be included and those that voted 10 because it won't even run shouldn't feel ignored. I could give it a 10 on behalf of my second PC which is minimum spec XP DX9 but won't run it.

The main thing is, the poll gives a general picture.
Now for the next patch.....

[Blackdog_kt]

LOL well to be fair in my mind 50 was the highest score i could give when I still prefer to play IL2 46 over it :) If I was to rate just its potential to be better then IL2 46 in the future It would have been quite a bit higher :) But from what the OP wrote I did not take this as his meaning :)

And if this poll would have went up the month after release then I may have been a bit more emotional about it but as it stands the money has long been spent and there is no competition out there for the same product type at the moment so for me the longer it goes on the easier it is for me to wait and be objective about the fixes:)

That said I can not fault anyone who is still holding a grudge as I am equally capable of doing just that....... LOL its been 5 years and I still wish evil things on Dell for the Bollox they pulled on me and that's even after they finally did the right thing lol ....took em bloody long enough ..... but I digress... oops :P

I must say that even if these numbers do not really reflect every flight sim gamer in the world, kind of like polls that get taken at election time :) for me i was surprised at how many people, of the ones that participated fell into the 50-70 zone :) If i would have guessed the outcome prior I would have put a lot more people closer to each extreme rather then smack in the middle :) very interesting :)

Now,.. after reading the update I was very please to find that all the major bits on my list are proposed to be included so if all goes well the good news would be that my next score would not just be higher, but higher because I would then have fewer reasons left to not play CLOD over IL2 46 and that would be a very good thing indeed :) (with the exception of offline content of course which I know will be a long time coming) :)

Again excellent thread :) It combines my favorite things about these forums having a chuckle at the slap fights, interesting information and different opinions :)

Cheers all :)

No worries, i was just pointing out pretty much the same thing: if people take some time to justify their opinions in a civil manner (like you did) they are easily acceptable, even though they might be starting from the same pool of data and yet reaching different conclusions. ;-)


Also, thread clean-up time. If anyone's post is missing, it's in the arguments and speculation megathread in the pilot's lounge section of the forums. If it's missing it's because someone was drawn into some off-topic bickering or even started it himself. Use the provided arguments and speculation megathread or miss further posts in the future.

Sadly, non-inflammatory posts that quote flamebait material also have to be moved, in order for said flamebait to be completely pruned from the topic and us not having to read it if we don't want to.

I can't afford to let the same few people (along with some innocent bystanders who will take the bait from time to time) derail a thread that has remained civil thus far despite the different opinions present, one that also has the potential to provide some kind of measure of progress between patches and help the developers see what the community thinks of the sim without having to waste time dredging through the rubble.

Those of you responsible know who you are, keep shooting yourselves in the foot and i'll keep moving your posts to that lovely place that can be easily ignored by everyone, thus defeating the prime purpose of trolling (a high visibility provocation to get a wide-ranging reaction).

I have a lot of patience but once it's exhausted it takes time to get refills, so either argue in that thread if all you want to do is argue or expect posts that disappear altogether in the coming weeks when i'm finally bored babysitting.

Nothing personal, just being clear about it: the forums should not be dominated by a small vocal group which constantly fights over two conflicting agendas in a repetitive manner and bores everyone else to tears, they should be readable and enjoyable for as many people as possible.
Believe you me, they will, one way or the other.

[JG52Uther]

Thanks Blackdog!

[CWMV]

I gave it what I feel is a very generous 30%
First big hit-Steam. Remove Steam and i would have given it another 20 points.

For me it boils down thus: you have a hollow shell of a combat flight sim, with sounds, FM's, weapon models, campaigns and maps all inferior to UP3 or DBW.

I gave it an extra 10 points because honestly I never had trouble running it. Always got better than 30fps with my old phenom x4 945/GTX 460 setup. But its so bad that I'm not even going to download it on the i7 2600k/gtx 580 rig I just built. I have no reason to. I've never been able to play the game for more than 10 minutes, and after those 10 minutes I always wanted to go to SAS or UP and thank them again for UP and DBW!

[Feuerfalke]

A very friendly 30 of 100.

...after having yet another unbelievable dogfight with 3 AI-109s unable to shake off Wellington bombers from their 6... Even through loopings and barrel rolls, these bombers kept a steady 30m behind the 109s.

[jimbop]

I gave it a genClod is still a weird mix of obsessive detail, placeholders and broken features.

A very good comment that tells a story about mismanaged development. Ironically this will probably work out in our favour eventually since the game will hopefully be filled in after release and into the expansions.

This has turned into an interesting poll! Ignoring the outliers the curve peaks at 60-70 which seems about right to me. Hopefully this improves after the next patch.