Talking cockpits Spit vs Bf109

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

I came across these two vids on YouTube and thought they may evoke some interest,basically the guy who's discussing the two pits is evaluating one against the other,anyway have a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFj8NDqZhlc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9YVei2Yb_k

[Ze-Jamz]

Been posted before mate...the guys a tool

[David Hayward]

Asking an RAF pilot to compare the Spit and 109 does not seem like the best way to get an unbiased opinion.

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Been posted before mate...the guys a tool

Oh,terribly sorry to repost old material old chap,and the guy's a tool too,shit,I did'nt realise that when I posted the thread.

And just for the record who are you?,relation to Albert Einstein?or are you just putting forward the intelligent input for the forum,never mind eh:lol:

[Bryan21cag]

hmm will i would have to disagree that he gave a biased review.

He did give the spitfire a better review then the ME but if you actually watch and listen to both reviews completely he didn't really give either one a good review. He just thought there was less bad going on inside of the spit pit then the ME pit :) I think as a pilot of of Heavy Iron aircraft he is qualified to asses for himself which cockpit, in his opinion is better suited for the role for which it was designed.

LOL he didn't dislike the ME pit because it was made by Germans and he is British you silly people, he disliked that it had less room it in and it had in his opinion worse visibility. and for a fighter pilot these are important features presumably.

Actually he was not asked this question but i would be surprised if he didn't give a bit more credit to the German pilots for being able to be as successful as they were considering that in his opinion they were at a disadvantage cockpit configuration wise.

One might argue that they were better pilots for it :)

LOL and maybe if you put a person who fly's ME's all the time and never sat in a spit pit inside it they might say "holy cow there is a lot of room in here and it sure is easier to see behind me" I guess we will have to wait for that video :)

any way Great post thanks for the videos very interesting. :)
Cheers :)

[VO101_Tom]

Oh,terribly sorry to repost...
I did not see this yet, thx.

[von Pilsner]

I came across these two vids on YouTube and thought they may evoke some interest,basically the guy who's discussing the two pits is evaluating one against the other,anyway have a look.

Pretty interesting, I had not seen those before.

[JG52Uther]

An interesting video.Seen it before but still interesting.
I find the 109 instruments much easier to read,and I assume its the same IRL.Always found the British instruments very cluttered.
As for the lack of rear view visibility, the LW fighter pilots never thought anone would be behind them,so it wasn't important... ;)

[Bryan21cag]

PS i used to watch wings as a kid growing up (man i miss that show) :) anyway i remember a few episodes where British and American pilots flew both 109 variants and 190's and gave glowing reviews of there flight characteristics and ability to dog fight.

Oh but they must have been completely biased towards there own planes and in no way could have said good things about the German planes just as pilots assessing planes my bad ....... :)

this lot is always up for a fight aren't they lol

thanks again great post :)

[Bryan21cag]

I find the 109 instruments much easier to read,and I assume its the same IRL.Always found the British instruments very cluttered.

The guy in the video agreed with you completely :)



As for the lack of rear view visibility, the LW fighter pilots never thought anone would be behind them,so it wasn't important... ;)

lol :) and correct me if im wrong but didn't the 109 with an experienced pilot on stick have a catlike ability to shake an aggressor at the first sign of tracer fire? :) i would think there confidence in their ability to shake your tail clear would maybe make up for a little bit of early warning. Just my guess :)

[Sternjaeger II]

lol I got pretty inflamed on this one when it came out, if you really care about the topic and the reason why we think he's a tool do a forum search.

Uh and another thing: did u really think that these two videos would have gone unnoticed to a bunch of nerds like us lot? ;)

[Bryan21cag]

lol I got pretty inflamed on this one when it came out, if you really care about the topic and the reason why we think he's a tool do a forum search.

Uh and another thing: did u really think that these two videos would have gone unnoticed to a bunch of nerds like us lot? ;)

well it went unnoticed to me until now :) (have not achieved full nerd status yet i guess :P )

lol well i guess i can not speak for his other reviews if he gave any but in this case (trying to be objective as i can) i believe that even though he favored the spit cockpit over the ME one he really had likes and dislikes with both. His exasperation when he sat in the ME pit was a bit over dramatic i think lol but maybe he was just legitimately surprised at how small it was. Any way I still enjoyed the vids:)

[Bryan21cag]

lol I got pretty inflamed on this one when it came out, if you really care about the topic and the reason why we think he's a tool do a forum search.

hmm now you have perked my curiosity.... should i search for keyword "tool"?

[Sternjaeger II]

hmm now you have perked my curiosity.... should i search for keyword "tool"?

lol I was gonna say "Try: 'Sternjaeger' and 'tool' ", bet that many would agree ;)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=19008&highlight=charlie+brown

[Bryan21cag]

lol I was gonna say "Try: 'Sternjaeger' and 'tool' ", bet that many would agree ;)

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=19008&highlight=charlie+brown

lol thanks.

I thought you meant that he had other reviews on this forum that you were basing your decision on :) it seems this argument has been made before but I still feel that except for a few over dramatizations his review on just the cockpits were not a biased :) just my opinion really :)

the other thread had arguments being made that he was a tool for not mentioning its good flight characteristics compared to the spit but he wasn't reviewing flight, it seemed to me that he was just reviewing the cockpits only :)

I am going to try and search youtube for the whole show it seems to be just two clips of a longer show maybe that will give me more incite into his credentials. :)

[Bryan21cag]

wow that flight demo of the spit in the thread you linked Stern was SEXY
Followed by another sexy vid of a 109G-6 demo man that was awesome :)

wish i was there with my SLR those days :) those high speed fly by profiles would be hanging on my wall in 20X30 format :P:P

[Sternjaeger II]

wow that flight demo of the spit in the thread you linked Stern was SEXY
Followed by another sexy vid of a 109G-6 demo man that was awesome :)

wish i was there with my SLR those days :) those high speed fly by profiles would be hanging on my wall in 20X30 format :P:P

yeah, it was East Kirkby some years ago. I wonder whether he would be allowed to do this today, with all the Health & Safety malarkey though :(

Superb flying and superbly elegant machine. There's something quite romantic and gentle about the forms of a Spitfire that always fascinated me.

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

this lot is always up for a fight aren't they lol

thanks again great post :)[/QUOTE]

Hehe,yeah....what amuses me,is that certain people on this forum would have you believe they are are a devine authority on these subjects,when the vast majority of us know they are just a bunch of ******* who comment far too frequent on here.

You've to laugh at how serious some of these people take themselves to be,after all at the end of the day this is only a game,it ain't real life.

[Sternjaeger II]

Hehe,yeah....what amuses me,is that certain people on this forum would have you believe they are are a devine authority on these subjects,when the vast majority of us know they are just a bunch of ******* who comment far too frequent on here.

You've to laugh at how serious some of these people take themselves to be.

IMHO this is the kind of inflammatory comment that start unnecessary discussions, unless you feel like motivating the reasons for such assertions and naming the people you are referring to.

[Bryan21cag]

yeah, it was East Kirkby some years ago. I wonder whether he would be allowed to do this today, with all the Health & Safety malarkey though :(

Superb flying and superbly elegant machine. There's something quite romantic and gentle about the forms of a Spitfire that always fascinated me.

times 1000 sir :)

All those old warbirds to me just seem so magestic. I cant really put my finger on it....... maybe its just aircraft and flying for me in general lol but WWII in piticular.

You got me searching 109 vids on youtube after this thread and i found this one of someone walking around what looks like a museum pre restoration yard of some sort followed by a flight demo of what looks like DB 109 (could be wrong i don't know the different types by sight that well) any way i could not help but think about walking around where the camera is in the first part of the video ALL DAY LONG!!

just tracing the lines of the skin of the aircraft with my finger tips and smelling that classic war bird smell of the cockpit and getting chills thinking about what it felt like to climb into the cockpit combining both your excruciating love for flying such planes with your fear of being destroyed and never having that feeling again every time you left the ground......... it just blows me away :) I am truly in heaven in a place like that in the video :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QP16QoNNkM&feature=related

[Sternjaeger II]

Yeah,there's a lot of flying forms,but nothing like vintage planes and warbirds: several members here have flown or regularly fly with vintage types and will tell you the same :)

I recently had the luck to see the Red Bull P-38 fly,and man,what an incredibly elegant sexy thing it was! Got some really wicked shots of it :)

and yes, the 109 in the video is actually a genuine Emil, originally an E1, upgraded to E4 after the BoB one of the very few Battle of Britain veterans left, which was piloted by Marseille (with which he shot down a Spitfire) and subsequently sent to Russia, where it was abandoned and recovered in a swamp.

[David Hayward]

I recently had the luck to see the Red Bull P-38 fly,and man,what an incredibly elegant sexy thing it was! Got some really wicked shots of it :)

You got them posted anywhere?

[Sternjaeger II]

You got them posted anywhere?

not yet, I took some 1400 shots at Legends this year on the Saturday, then went flying on Sunday (but left the camera on the ground teehehe).

[David Hayward]

not yet, I took some 1400 shots at Legends this year on the Saturday, then went flying on Sunday (but left the camera on the ground teehehe).

You got any photographs from prior shows posted?

[ElAurens]

The simmer's mantra:

"Real pilots are wrong and have no right to have an opinion based on real world experience, because we have charts, and stuff".

:rolleyes:

[Bryan21cag]

yea stern if you put those up any where let us know would love to see em :) you may become famous as my next Desk top Artist :P All rights reserved of coarse :) would never steal from a fellow shutter bug :)

[JG52Uther]

What did you fly in Stern?

[Ze-Jamz]

Oh,terribly sorry to repost old material old chap,and the guy's a tool too,shit,I did'nt realise that when I posted the thread.

And just for the record who are you?,relation to Albert Einstein?or are you just putting forward the intelligent input for the forum,never mind eh:lol:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23766

Just my 2 cents, and the fact I put mate on the end should of gave you a clue as to me not being an ass just stating a fact.

thanks for the kind words..your do well in here 'old chap'

[Ze-Jamz]

You got them posted anywhere?

David...take a look, couple of the Redbull p-38 too

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24494

[David Hayward]

Not a fan of the big red bull painted on the side of that thing.

[David Hayward]

I have no good P-38 shots, but this is kind of cool.

(hint: it has nothing to do with the P-388))

http://aero-pix.com/dayton03/na/na-b.jpg

[Ze-Jamz]

Not a fan of the big red bull painted on the side of that thing.

No but if it helps keep it in the air I'm all for it

[Sternjaeger II]

What did you fly in Stern?

Went up doing some tumbles in a Stearman, Boeing's finest :) we got the bad news about BBD when we landed, the relief of knowing that Rob Davies bailed out ok was one I will remember for long time.

Not a fan of the big red bull painted on the side of that thing.

Yeah, I thought so too, but once airborne is barely visible, and that all metal finish is damn sexy. And yes, if they pay to keep her airborne, bring it on.

Here's one of my shots

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/3636/img1690qr.jpg

I have no good P-38 shots, but this is kind of cool.

(hint: it has nothing to do with the P-388))


It's cool indeed! Is that Glacier Girl?

[David Hayward]

It's cool indeed! Is that Glacier Girl?

It is. That is not the cool part.

Hint: Photo was taken on July 20

[Lololopoulos]

I liked this pair of videos and i've watched them many times. What variant of bf109 is it in the video? And the 109 cockpit does seem unbelievably small. i would assume Luftwaffe had some height restriction on pilot cadets during WWII?

[blackmme]

and yes, the 109 in the video is actually a genuine Emil, originally an E1, upgraded to E4 after the BoB one of the very few Battle of Britain veterans left, which was piloted by Marseille (with which he shot down a Spitfire) and subsequently sent to Russia, where it was abandoned and recovered in a swamp.

Apologies for the intrusion Sternjaeger II but i'm not certain that is correct.
I remember the programme very well It's 'Spitfire' part of the UK Channel 4 Equinox series (I had it on video up until a couple of years back). The 109 is a G2 which became well known as 'Black 6' it was captured in North Africa in 1942.

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/collections/aircraft/aircraft-history/X001-2501%20BF109G%20'Black%206'.pdf

The pilot is Paul Day who was OC of the RAF Battle of Britain Memorial Flight:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-18274.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain_Memorial_Flight

Probably not a 'tool'

Regards Mike

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

The pilot is Paul Day who was OC of the RAF Battle of Britain Memorial Flight:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-18274.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain_Memorial_Flight

Probably not a 'tool'

Regards Mike[/QUOTE]

+100;-)

[Sternjaeger II]

Apologies for the intrusion Sternjaeger II but i'm not certain that is correct.
I remember the programme very well It's 'Spitfire' part of the UK Channel 4 Equinox series (I had it on video up until a couple of years back). The 109 is a G2 which became well known as 'Black 6' it was captured in North Africa in 1942.

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/collections/aircraft/aircraft-history/X001-2501%20BF109G%20'Black%206'.pdf


yeah, I was referring to the Emil of this video, Black 6 is defo a G2, if you can find its story (there's a book out there about it) it's really worth buying and reading in one go :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QP16QoNNkM


The pilot is Paul Day who was OC of the RAF Battle of Britain Memorial Flight:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-18274.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain_Memorial_Flight

Probably not a 'tool'

Regards Mike

not when it comes to piloting skills, read my comments in the other posts on the same thread about it. Again, personal opinions ;)

[blackmme]

yeah, I was referring to the Emil of this video, Black 6 is defo a G2, if you can find its story (there's a book out there about it) it's really worth buying and reading in one go :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QP16QoNNkM

not when it comes to piloting skills, read my comments in the other posts on the same thread about it. Again, personal opinions ;)

Thanks Sternjaeger II, would have been nice if it was an Emil as with that cannon breach it would have to be an E2, and there aren't any survivors.

I have seen the book and never gotten around to it, thanks for the recommendation I will pick it up when I am down at Dux next.

Regards Mike

[Sternjaeger II]

Thanks Sternjaeger II, would have been nice if it was an Emil as with that cannon breach it would have to be an E2, and there aren't any survivors.

I have seen the book and never gotten around to it, thanks for the recommendation I will pick it up when I am down at Dux next.

Regards Mike

yeah, just like the Emil of the video, most were updated during the war, hence the scarcity of early 109s. In the book it's actually interesting to see that when they go through the cleaning process, they found evidences that the plane was in fact an updated frame of an F2 (if memory serves!).

Wonder what happened to that Me109 that was found in India some years ago, that was an early one too. http://www.warbirdsofindia.com/WDY/wbdy2002.html

[Ze-Jamz]

this lot is always up for a fight aren't they lol

thanks again great post :)

Hehe,yeah....what amuses me,is that certain people on this forum would have you believe they are are a devine authority on these subjects,when the vast majority of us know they are just a bunch of ******* who comment far too frequent on here.

You've to laugh at how serious some of these people take themselves to be,after all at the end of the day this is only a game,it ain't real life.

What are you going on about? if thats directed at me which im sure it is, check my posts recently, on the fence springs to mind...more info on updates is all i desire..

devine authority on these subjects? now im really lost as to what your exactly going on about

[Ze-Jamz]

IMHO this is the kind of inflammatory comment that start unnecessary discussions, unless you feel like motivating the reasons for such assertions and naming the people you are referring to.

exactly..

Plt Off JRB Meaker..go and calm down somewhere

[Ze-Jamz]

The pilot is Paul Day who was OC of the RAF Battle of Britain Memorial Flight:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-18274.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain_Memorial_Flight

Probably not a 'tool'

Regards Mike

+100;-)[/QUOTE]

Yea...he is :rolleyes:

[Sternjaeger II]

It is. That is not the cool part.

Hint: Photo was taken on July 20

No idea :confused:

[David Hayward]

No idea :confused:

Take a very close look at the guy wearing the sunglasses on the right of the photo. He's the first of only 12 men.

[Sternjaeger II]

Take a very close look at the guy wearing the sunglasses on the right of the photo. He's the first of only 12 men.

Neil Armstrong!! :o

[Ze-Jamz]

Neil Armstrong!! :o

Lol..i was just about to type that

[David Hayward]

Correct. He doesn't get out much, so this was a pretty big deal.

[Sternjaeger II]

Correct. He doesn't get out much, so this was a pretty big deal.

yeah, I remember watching a BBC documentary some time ago about him and his nightmare life after the Apollo mission, poor man! His barber started selling locks of his hair and he wasn't too impressed!

Did u talk to him? I remember the journalist saying "my real issue was what would you ask to a man that has probably been asked everything?"

What was the Rolls-Royce trophy doing in front of an Allison-powered P-38 anyway? ;-)

[David Hayward]

I did not talk to him. The RR trophy was for warbird restoration at the 2003 Dayton Air Show. There were several categories. Glacier Giirl won best overall.

[Sternjaeger II]

I did not talk to him. The RR trophy was for warbird restoration at the 2003 Dayton Air Show. There were several categories. Glacier Giirl won best overall.

Ah I see :)

Here's an interesting video from a documentary on Glacier Girl's recovery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p8h43TRXwk

[Sirocco]

Thanks for posting.

Amusing to see certain people actually agree with what he said about the 109 but still feel the need to toss out insults to those that have done it for real.

[Ze-Jamz]

Thanks for posting.

Amusing to see certain people actually agree with what he said about the 109 but still feel the need to toss out insults to those that have done it for real.

At least you got a laugh out of it eh? Thanks for sharing

[Ze-Jamz]

Ah I see :)

Here's an interesting video from a documentary on Glacier Girl's recovery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-p8h43TRXwk

Nice vid

[Sirocco]

At least you got a laugh out of it eh? Thanks for sharing

When certain posters share their puffed up nonsense it's wise to try to get a laugh out of it.

[Sternjaeger II]

When certain posters share their puffed up nonsense it's wise to try to get a laugh out of it.

Sirocco, for a new member with just 3 posts you seem to be quite frisky..

[Sternjaeger II]

Obviously a victim of today's bannings.... ;) Care to guess who? (I haven't figured it out, not wanting to spend time looking up IP's...)

no idea, and to be 100% I don't really care.. one wonders if some of these folks are paid by someone to behave like that..

[Ze-Jamz]

When certain posters share their puffed up nonsense it's wise to try to get a laugh out of it.

Brilliant..Im glad for you

[Sirocco]

Sirocco, for a new member with just 3 posts you seem to be quite frisky..

Well, we get a posting where we could actually have a good discussion on something interesting, and it gets derailed by familiar faces. It would be nice to read these forums and not come across that sometimes.

[Sirocco]

You people have too much time on your hands, you really do.

[Ze-Jamz]

Well, we get a posting where we could actually have a good discussion on something interesting, and it gets derailed by familiar faces. It would be nice to read these forums and not come across that sometimes.

Its got derailed yes...So what?

David and Stern are having a decent convo which is interesting isnt it? or would you prefer that they go elsewhere?

Ive posted where this thread has been seen before and 'My' view on the person in the video, added photos and have commented on posts..your doing what exactly?

If anyone is derailing this thread now to something worthless Im afraid its you

[Ze-Jamz]

You people have too much time on your hands, you really do.

Yes we have...If you have that view on some of the posts seen here i suggest you go away and don't come back...your see a lot of threads going OT, you see its a forum mate..it happens

im not being rude, im just given you some good advice...

[Sirocco]

You moan about the guy because, what? Seriously. Puffed up nonsene. You agree with everything he says but you have to complain because ... he's a fighter pilot and you're a guy that read a few books?

Well done on trashing this forum. I registered long ago to follow the weekly updates. You small group of idiots have managed to trash it to the point it's next to worthless.

[Sirocco]

Yes we have...If you have that view on some of the posts seen here i suggest you go away and don't come back...your see a lot of threads going OT, you see its a forum mate..it happens

im not being rude, im just given you some good advice...

Believe me, I've better things to do than watch you clowns act like children.

[Ze-Jamz]

You moan about the guy because, what? Seriously. Puffed up nonsene. You agree with everything he says but you have to complain because ... he's a fighter pilot and you're a guy that read a few books?

Well done on trashing this forum. I registered long ago to follow the weekly updates. You small group of idiots have managed to trash it to the point it's next to worthless.

Edit:

Cant be a$*ed...

[Ze-Jamz]

Believe me, I've better things to do than watch you clowns act like children.

run along then...make sure you turn the light off on the way out