To the "troublemakers and the malcontents"

[Mr Greezy]

Guys. I gotta say, as an old hat to sim games (especially IL2) but a newcomer more or less to the forum, it's incredibly shocking to me how much time and effort is being put into arguing. It's physically draining to read it, I can only imagine that after a day of pointless argument/counter argument, the people involved are completely wiped. It feels like it's a second job to some.

Look. The game is grossly incomplete. But it's out now, and the devs are working on it. What else is there to say other than to report bugs and HELP the devs make it better by being positive and constructive? What will endless, cyclic bickering do other than take away the moderators and potentially Luthier himself from answering pertinent, technical questions? Do you want 1C to apologize? Do you want a refund?

Look, it was a shaky start. But PC games, and sim games in particular, especially ones released in this bogus economy have all been shaky. Look, I'm not ignoring the fact that this game needs an incredible amount of work. I'll be the first to admit that it's virtually unplayable. But on these boards I'm seeing so much more than talk about the game. In-fighting is just serving to poison the community and take time away from the people who are either trying to improve the game or address legitimate issues on the forum. There should never have to be mass bannings because it shouldn't have got to that point in the first place.

So even if after all this, you still think so-and-so is in the wrong, just be the better man and take a deep breath, drink a glass of warm milk, and come back with the right attitude. I'm not trying to pick fights, so if any feathers get ruffled you've missed the point of this post ENTIRELY. It's meant to quell it. What's done is done, and since we are all gunning for this to be a great game, let's be on the same team as opposed to different ones.

Go team!!

...right?

[r0bc]

Your a wise man...well said.

[Ze-Jamz]

Guys. I gotta say, as an old hat to sim games (especially IL2) but a newcomer more or less to the forum, it's incredibly shocking to me how much time and effort is being put into arguing. It's physically draining to read it, I can only imagine that after a day of pointless argument/counter argument, the people involved are completely wiped. It feels like it's a second job to some.

Look. The game is grossly incomplete. But it's out now, and the devs are working on it. What else is there to say other than to report bugs and HELP the devs make it better by being positive and constructive? What will endless, cyclic bickering do other than take away the moderators and potentially Luthier himself from answering pertinent, technical questions? Do you want 1C to apologize? Do you want a refund?

Look, it was a shaky start. But PC games, and sim games in particular, especially ones released in this bogus economy have all been shaky. Look, I'm not ignoring the fact that this game needs an incredible amount of work. I'll be the first to admit that it's virtually unplayable. But on these boards I'm seeing so much more than talk about the game. In-fighting is just serving to poison the community and take time away from the people who are either trying to improve the game or address legitimate issues on the forum. There should never have to be mass bannings because it shouldn't have got to that point in the first place.

So even if after all this, you still think so-and-so is in the wrong, just be the better man and take a deep breath, drink a glass of warm milk, and come back with the right attitude. I'm not trying to pick fights, so if any feathers get ruffled you've missed the point of this post ENTIRELY. It's meant to quell it. What's done is done, and since we are all gunning for this to be a great game, let's be on the same team as opposed to different ones.

Go team!!

...right?

I agree with all that apart from the warm milk bit... not good;-)

[Mr Greezy]

I agree with all that apart from the warm milk bit... not good;-)

No arguments, remember? You drink your warm milk right now, soldier!!!!

[Feathered_IV]

Good advice. I'm thinking of taking a break for a while, as I've recently found the standards of the forum have a habit of dragging one down with it.

[sigintwarrior]

I have found that drinking warm milk slows down my frame rate.... or was it drinking beer?..... Just kidding.

Well stated Mr. Greezy

[Redroach]

I really don't get why the supposedly 'adult' faction keeps bringing that up. People were, and are, frustrated, vented their anger in acceptable and non-acceptable ways, and now, when things get a bit calmer again, you're poking into the beehive again. I'm pretty fed up with the oh-so-wise, grown-ups keeping referencing the 'whiners' in the most derogatory ways possible in every second post.
That's just asking for it, sorry. Provocation is not the upper side of The Schwartz.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Ah yes...... Let's not forget about "The Schwartz" :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K4CSuKaePY

[Redroach]

Should I report for profanity? :rolleyes:

[Skoshi Tiger]

The problem is that the so called whiners do it because they enjoy whining. The people who stir things up do so because they enjoy stirring things up. Some repeatedly restate the obvious because.... well it's just obvious.

If any sane person got so much grief from a product they would take it back for a refund (oops they didn't read the terms of sale too bad!) or right off their $14.00 (yep that’s what some of these guys paid for it!) that they paid for it even though they knew it had issues before they bought it. (Some had been telling the community how bad it would be for literally years before it was released! Don't believe me do a search on some of their posts!)

Thanks be to God that my kid's don't whine as much as some of the people on this forum!

I just enjoy playing the game. It is fun and immersive even with all the issues. If the whiners don’t succeed in driving the developers away and abandoning the title (they have already driven them away from regularly posting on this board), any future patches and updates will be most welcome.

[Redroach]

So you're the 'stir things up' type. Sorry, but I fail to see how that's any better than being a 'whiner' (insult-spewing, profanity-ridden postings excluded).

[Skoshi Tiger]

So you're the 'stir things up' type. Sorry, but I fail to see how that's any better than being a 'whiner' (insult-spewing, profanity-ridden postings excluded).

No, I was just stating my opinion. Do you think your the only one who is allowed to do it on this forum? I think you should look at your own behaviour and attitude before commenting on other peoples.

[GOA_Potenz]

The problem is that the so called whiners do it because they enjoy whining.

Does you never think that many expected this sim for years, and once you can fly it, is unplayable, people get frustrated, and in some way cheated, as you know, before release devs said that game runs well in a mid end PC, so i read negative post not as whining, instead as frustation.

[Redroach]

No, I was just stating my opinion. Do you think your the only one who is allowed to do it on this forum? I think you should look at your own behaviour and attitude before commenting on other peoples.

Ah, the good old ad hominem argument! Always working and again a great example of how 'adults' are superior in behaviour.

Maybe I should reformulate my statement: Do you think that the 'whiner' type is likely to cause more trouble than the 'stir it up' type? Or would you agree that this forum can get along very well without them both?

Surely you would classify me as a 'whiner' due to me being very angry about the state of CoD and how development of patches went, and goes, along. And now I think I've gotten over that and I want to re-focus on gameplay again. But people like you won't let me, it seems...

[Skoshi Tiger]

Does you never think that many expected this sim for years, and once you can fly it, is unplayable, people get frustrated, and in some way cheated, as you know, before release devs said that game runs well in a mid end PC, so i read negative post not as whining, instead as frustation.

On my system and my settings, the game is very flyable and very enjoyable. especially in multiplayer when theres a few people to pit your skills against. Thry to find a server with a small ping rate, I haven't had the sound bug with a small ping rate.


Ah, the good old ad hominem argument! Always working and again a great example of how 'adults' are superior in behaviour.

Maybe I should reformulate my statement: Do you think that the 'whiner' type is likely to cause more trouble than the 'stir it up' type? Or would you agree that this forum can get along very well without them both?

Surely you would classify me as a 'whiner' due to me being very angry about the state of CoD and how development of patches went, and goes, along.

No! I class you as both, because thats the impression I get when I read your posts. Of course I could be mistaken, It wouldn't be the first time.

In my opinion to be classed as whiner requires a certain amount of repetitiveness. If it's a once off it's a moan, to be a whine it needs to constant and of a higher frequency.



And now I think I've gotten over that and I want to re-focus on gameplay again. But people like you won't let me, it seems...

I see a big problem right there. It's always easier to blame someone else! It's rooted deep down in the human psyche and over the years has been the cause of missery and conflict throughout the world. It transends all boundaries.

To be intraspective requires effort and personal change, but to blame others requires no effort at all.

Heres some advice (unasked for I know). If the opinions of others are making it impossible to focus on the game, use the ignore option. It really works!

Cheers!

[Bryan21cag]

just a thought......... without the anti-whine posts, the whine posts would likely, quickly fade into obscurity and the same could be true about the anti-whine posts :)

but dooooooo please keep it up though chaps as it often brings out "laugh me bollox off" clips and quotes like the one from "Space*expletive deleted*"

(sry cant say the name of the movie or quote your video clip above for fear of getting banned because I posted about someone posting about some other post about thinking of the time that this one guy saw something about this dude that thought about the time that he saw Dark Helmet say a bad icky word at his crew in this great comedy:)

and after a really long day at work my many thanks for the laugh :)

Cheers

P.S.
Confucius say elevator smell very different to dwarf :)

[Mr Greezy]

Wait wait wait. Seriously??!! Seriously.

In a post to say "hey let's stop arguing about nothing" there's already two pages of arguing about nothing. You see, it's more about THIS than people critiquing the game. As long as it's not just dumping and stating what everyone knows, game critique is essential. It's this. This back and forth. On both sides.

And for your information this condescendig old fart is only 29 years old. Honestly, being in these forums is more exhausting than trying to get SLI working in the game. I'm starting to think the best way to deal with the people who just can't wait to argue is ignore them. I re-read my original post many times to ensure the proper tone was conveyed. I truly didn't mean to upset anyone. So why this?

So you're mad. Frustrated. Whatever. At what? Surely it can't be me as I've hardly had enough time to make an impression. At the devs? At the game? What could quell the motive for instigation? I don't say this to prod, but just literally ask yourself that, and if the answer is tangible and attainable then by all means go seek it. But saying "I hate your game you misleading bastards" and moping around doesn't do anything except bring down the morale of everyone else who's trying to make the best of it.

It's not about The Whiners vs. The Stir It Ups. It's not West Side Story. I wanted to convey that we should all be on the same team. The team of trying to make the game better now that we have it. If some of the attitudes on this forum were present in the real Battle Of Britain England would've surrendered. Stiff upper lip ol' chaps.

It's about switching perspective. You gotta let the bad things go and move ahead.

Try the warm milk, honestly, it'll chill things out bit. Namaste. Wax on wax off.

[Mysticpuma]

Wait wait wait. Seriously??!! Seriously.

In a post to say "hey let's stop arguing about nothing" there's already two pages of arguing about nothing.

Welcome to the new forums!

Any post in favour of the game gets flamed, any post not in favour of the game gets flamed....currently if you are happy with the state of the game don't bother posting as you'll get flamed by the whiners, any post saying your unhappy about the game will get flamed by the fanboys....and on and on, etc, etc.

Currently without input from the Development team every faction is chasing each others tails and it is just a pointless never-ending stream of misery from either side of the posts.

Currently I am not playing on or offline until the next patch which I'll install, give it a go and if there is barely any change, I'll just go off and play 1946 or Wings of Prey until the next patch.

It's a frustrating wait, but hopefully at some point it'll work as well as 1946, but all I need is a little patience and it'll work out for the best.

So unless we get large input here from the Developer's I have a little potter around the pages, pick a couple to post in and then wander off nd have fun with another game.

Cheers, MP

[AlarmedBread]

I would like to add a big thank you!! To all our Euro friends who have been testing, troubleshooting and picking at the bugs. Honestly I was surprised and impressed the first time I fired up the game. Only way from here is up! :-D

[Redroach]

stuff.

Wow. Your post sounds way more agressive than your OP. Having an own opinion seems to get you really upset.
So far, I've been jumped at at least twice...my opinion that the 'whiners' aren't the only problem gets stronger by the hour.

[Scarecrow]

Here we go again..again. It's hugely entertaining watching you lot tear each other to pieces while we wait for the patch news. Flaming seems to be the only thing keeping this forum active, keep up the good work guys!:)

[Ataros]

It is OK to have an opinion and feelings but not OK to spam with negative threads, flood with offtopic, flamewars, getting personal. It did not get quiet as some say. If you have a look at yesterday's thread you will see who continues doing it on purpose. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24770

The game has its good sides (like engine, models, DM, scripts, etc, etc.) and bad sides like bugs http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23405 and not finished features that were planned. These facts are known to everyone on the forums and the devs in the first place. They are not stupid.

Then when we know facts it is everyones own choice, decision and responsibility what meaning they derive and what emotional judgment they make based on facts. It is your own decision only on which facts you chose to concentrate on. Concentration on positive facts is constructive. Concentration on negative facts is destructive. (I hope this is clear.) So it is up to you to decide if you want the project to succeed, if you want to help it grow strong and shine OR you concentrate only on your own feelings of 'being cheated', disappointment, frustration, revenge, pity and want the project fail in the long run. You may not notice it consciously because you did not learn how to control your emotions yet, but any negative emotional post harms the project. It is bad publicity but more important it may influence publisher's decision to discontinue financing the project at some point. This is what some 'whiners' want to happen only to satisfy their hurt feelings and say "See, I was right!"

I do not think community and moderators should support this harmful behavior. This is company forums which purpose is to support the game not to harm it. This is a place for people who love the game and want to help the devs not to discourage them.

I can't believe that just about every positive thread (including constructive criticism) is getting hijacked and then made useless by the same people. History tells us that to be great you must first be positive. Great men & women strive for their goals no matter what the odds. The whiners are the opposite of greatness. It is easier to destroy than to create. Easier to bad mouth others than to encourage and congratulate.

Rise Above.

Please stop behaving like kids, take responsibility for success of the game, help the project, post only if you can contribute something and STFU if you want to harm the project or just need a hug because you feel so bad that you can not handle it like a man. Everyone is already aware of the bugs, of the features not completed yet and of your precious feelings you chose to indulge in instead of acting positively.

Be a man, or at least take a girl mentioned in this post as example (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=311645&postcount=79). Do something helpful for the game. I did not see any of the best contributors to these forums who writes great guides or missions complaining. Think about it. This shows who supports the game and who causes trouble to the game here.

CloD is the best product in its category on the market (And you know that you would not be able to prove the opposite in court.). This is company owned forums. Spreading false information about 1C products is strictly prohibited by 1C Forum Rules (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=1874). I hope mods know about it and do what they must.

Let's all help the game to be even better.

BTW. Did I mentioned there are bugs in the game? http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23405 :grin: LOL

[r0bc]

Ataros I didn't have a problem paying $50 for the game (That's how I support developers) and I'm not overly concerned about the bugs.....but I'm upset I lost 60 precious seconds reading that post. True story.

[Tree_UK]

If the whiners don’t succeed in driving the developers away and abandoning the title (they have already driven them away from regularly posting on this board), any future patches and updates will be most welcome.

Sorry but that's just an untruth, you have no evidence to support this claim and you should retract it as you have vilified anyone who has rightfully questioned or enquired about the game they have purchased.

[JG52Uther]

Mr Greezy you could be considered one of the "troublemakers and the malcontents" for posting such a thread.
Its pretty obvious it would stir up an argument.
Leave it to the moderators to police the forums please.

[robtek]

Sorry but that's just an untruth, you have no evidence to support this claim and you should retract it as you have vilified anyone who has rightfully questioned or enquired about the game they have purchased.

So tree,
you are calling anyone who "who has rightfully questioned or enquired about the game they have purchased" a whiner???

Please reread what you've written and clarify this.

[Tree_UK]

So tree,
you are calling anyone who "who has rightfully questioned or enquired about the game they have purchased" a whiner???

Please reread what you've written and clarify this.

I think you should reread it, you have clearly not understood my post.

[robtek]

Please reconsider,
skoshi explicitely called out the "whiners" in the post that you answered with the sentence i quoted,
you equaled that to "who has rightfully questioned or enquired about the game they have purchased".

[Ze-Jamz]

http://files.sharenator.com/facepalm_Facepalm_collection-s500x400-82171-580.jpg


Enough fellas..

Nearmiss...why are you allowing this tripe to continue?

[Meusli]

Because it's 24/7 and no mod is super-human in the face of this endless boredom that are these threads.

[Tree_UK]

Please reconsider,
skoshi explicitely called out the "whiners" in the post that you answered with the sentence i quoted,
you equaled that to "who has rightfully questioned or enquired about the game they have purchased".

<sigh!>

[Mr Greezy]

Yeah. I'm the jerk for trying to stay positive and trying to get everyone to just take a step back and move forward.

Sorry?

Look, I didn't mean to start this up. Have no fear, you've all proven that it was a horrible idea. I'm gonna log off now. Funny thing about this stuff, it all disappears when you turn off the computer.

Good luck all. Still staying positive though. And I know there are people out there like me.

[robtek]

I believe i know what you've wanted to say, only that wasn't what you wrote.
The possibilities of misconceptions should be avoided.

[Meusli]

I am sorry if I offended you that is not why I come to these boards, it's just that it's getting a little tiresome now. It's not your intentions that are wrong, it's the fact that there are 5 of these threads a day and you could have used one of them instead of making your own.

[Tree_UK]

Yeah. I'm the jerk for trying to stay positive and trying to get everyone to just take a step back and move forward.

Sorry?

Look, I didn't mean to start this up. Have no fear, you've all proven that it was a horrible idea. I'm gonna log off now. Funny thing about this stuff, it all disappears when you turn off the computer.

Good luck all. Still staying positive though. And I know there are people out there like me.

I dont think it was horrible idea Greezy, and i thought your post was not at all offensive, but you do have to remember we have already had the game five months so our patience is a little twitchy to say the least. :grin:

S!

[Skoshi Tiger]

Sorry but that's just an untruth, you have no evidence to support this claim and you should retract it as you have vilified anyone who has rightfully questioned or enquired about the game they have purchased.

Pot, Kettle, Black!

[Mr Greezy]

I dont think it was horrible idea Greezy, and i thought your post was not at all offensive, but you do have to remember we have already had the game five months so our patience is a little twitchy to say the least. :grin:

S!


Totally fair. As I said, I'll be first in line to say how much work needs to be done on the title. I was just trying to voice some encouragement to not dwell on it. The only thing now to do is work on it. But honestly, it's not so much about critique of the game but the weird personal flame wars that are happening. Honestly, it was such an onslaught of tearing apart everything I said just in this thread alone I feel really hesitant about posting anything else. That is an unwelcoming posture for a community to take IMO. It's going on on both sides. It's a weird feature of the Internet. Most of the things said would never come out of anyone's mouth in real life, and not for fear of getting their lights knocked out (I especially am quite slight and could never win in any type of physical combat), but because a lot of it is just a bit rude.

In the end, I guess the lesson is to just let it slide. Ok. Stepping away again. I just couldn't not say that last one.

[SG1_Lud]

I would like to add a big thank you!! To all our Euro friends who have been testing, troubleshooting and picking at the bugs. Honestly I was surprised and impressed the first time I fired up the game. Only way from here is up! :-D

That was really nice from you sir. S!

[Doc_uk]

It's physically draining to read it
Then be like me and Dont read it, Simples

Mind you it is good to talk:rolleyes:

[sigintwarrior]

One of the funniest threads I have read in a while....

BTW Ataros, I watched the movie you have linked in your sig, "Only Old Men Go To Battle". A very good film. Thank you for posting that.

[SYN_Repent]

lets face it, if the game had any content at all right now, if it worked properly, then im pretty sure whiner's, fanboys, troublemakers and malcontents would be playing it rather that reading forums and arguing.

[Tree_UK]

lets face it, if the game had any content at all right now, if it worked properly, then im pretty sure whiner's, fanboys, troublemakers and malcontents would be playing it rather that reading forums and arguing.

Very true, even if we had some communiction things would settle down.

[Feuerfalke]

Very true, even if we had some communiction things would settle down.

It would probably just vent into a different direction.

That's why Luthier won't post anything unless it's rock-solid.

In other words: The 'give us news so the whining stops'-mentality does the exact opposite of what it's ment to do.



I agree with you, though, that if the game would (really) work, there would be less waiting for a patch or news on the patch...

[furbs]

It would probably just vent into a different direction.

That's why Luthier won't post anything unless it's rock-solid.

In other words: The 'give us news so the whining stops'-mentality does the exact opposite of what it's ment to do.



I agree with you, though, that if the game would (really) work, there would be less waiting for a patch or news on the patch...

Sorry Feuerfalke, that's just not true...

The last patch notes said "Unfortunately two major things we cut out of the beta version of the patch did not make it into this release. Distant 2D clouds continue to conflict with NVidia SLI. The old Il-2 co-op style plane/position selection GUI also needs more work.

These changes will be released shortly." that was obviously not rock solid because we haven't seen or heard anything since, or about the community manager.

[Ataros]

OT:

BTW Ataros, I watched the movie you have linked in your sig, "Only Old Men Go To Battle". A very good film. Thank you for posting that.

Thanks for watching. Glad to know you like it there across the Atlantic where Hollywood is much more close :) The film does not feature neither genuine WW2 aircrafts (except for Po-2) nor modern computer graphics but tells about that war much more than the whole IL-2 series imo.

S!