All I needed to hear....

[ATAG_Bliss]

Here are some things to keep in mind about our game:

1. We the developers are a part of 1C-Softclub, Russia’s largest software developer and publisher. We are backed by a dedicated production team, and most importantly, our top management has complete faith in the team and in the product line. That means that the team is growing, we are hiring, and we’re not going anywhere.

2. If you’ve played our previous games, you know that we always support our products way past the release. We work on patches and add-ons, add new content, add new features, and we never abandon our projects.

3. The game you are playing today has always been envisioned as the first in the series. We are already working on a sequel as we continue to support and improve Cliffs of Dover.

4. We do not at this time have anyone doing community relations, which means we spend less time than we’d like to interacting with you, or rather, providing answers to your questions. We are up on these boards every day reading what you have to say, and it does often drive our design decisions and priorities.

You mean 10 + years supporting the original IL2 wasn't enough time for others to have some faith in the new one?

Works for me.

Thanks Luthier.

[jimbop]

Yes, it was a good message and I'm also glad he locked the thread!

[Rattlehead]

Aw heck, I only saw the post now! (Would have saved me some time typing out a lenghtly reply elsewhere.)

Anyway yes, I agree. I have faith in this game and the team. Let's all calm down to a panic.

[adonys]

Those words means nothing, they are just business mumbling about a new release.

he would have said the same, even if the MG would have already signed for bancrupcy, considering they've just released the US version.

What do you think it would have happened if they would have said "well, we won't get up any other patch, but the good thing is that you can buy our next adoon in half a year"?!!

[von Pilsner]

What do you think it would have happened if they would have said "well, we won't get up any other patch, but the good thing is that you can buy our next adoon in half a year"?!!

Well, he didn't say that so it's pointless to speculate...

[ATAG_Bliss]

The words shouldn't even have to be spoken in the 1st place. If this was a new company or entirely new team, then I'd be a bit worried. But as I've said all along, this same company still supports old IL2 and have been doing so for a very long time now.

It shouldn't take too much thought to realize that another new simulation even titled "IL2" will have the same support as the one that's already over 10 years old. It's not business mumbo jumbo. They've already proven they do just that. And until we all get told otherwise, that's what I will believe based upon prior experience.

[JG52Krupi]

Agreed bliss.

If luthier post dont calm you down then nothing will... Well perhaps a horse tranquilliser but I used my last one on carguy ;)

[furbs]

You do know Oleg has gone right?

[Ataros]

If luthier post dont calm you down then nothing will... Well perhaps a horse tranquilliser but I used my last one on carguy ;)

+1

[adonys]

hmm.. words like "we'll get a community manager" should have calmed us down, rrright?!!

words are nothing, if they are not followed by deeds.. and I've started see to less and less words, and no deeds at all.. which is kinda of worrying..

I've bought Il2CoD knowing fully the state of the game, but based on MG's history of patches and communication.. for me, they patching this game, and communicating with me is a moral part of this contract I've agreed when I've bought Il2CoD

which now seems like they are losing it.. so, i have all the motives in this world to be worried about!

Maybe you don't understand, bt what is exactly happening right now is MG alienating and losing the trust and respect of their base community. Is the worst thing which can happen to a small developer fo a niche market, and I'm afraid they won't survive without it.

[yellonet]

I never had any doubt, but it's still good to hear.

[Pluto]

Agreed bliss.

If luthier post dont calm you down then nothing will... Well perhaps a horse tranquilliser but I used my last one on carguy ;)

.... "horse tranquiliser" - that´s good !!! :lol:
gives me the picture of someone beeing carried away in a strait jacket by some friendly people in white uniforms, and he is screaming all the way hysterically: "did you also work on it, say did you, ....hell, what did you do the last 6 years?"

Fortunately there are other sims to fly while waiting for this one to get fixed. So no reason to overheat.:roll:

[furbs]

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2151/07minister.jpg
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2011-07-20

its all im saying.

[MadTommy]

Furbs what would stop you seeing everything so negatively? Seriously?

We have had several patches that have improved a lot of the initial performance issues, we have had posts reassuring the community that the team is working flat out to fix the outstanding issues, we have had reassurances that the team is well supported by its parent company and will be in for the long haul & will continue to support CloD.

Yes there are still some major bugs, the sound bug alone makes the game pretty much unplayable for me, the team have stated this particular issues need several months work and while that might be annoying it is what it is. Yes the initial release has been of poor quality, but Jesus your posts and other haters don't help anyone and simply make these forums tedious & i suspect a major reason for the lack of communication from the Dev team. Get a life, play something else for a bit, get some fresh air, you are like a dog with a bone.

[LoBiSoMeM]

Maybe you don't understand, bt what is exactly happening right now is MG alienating and losing the trust and respect of their base community. Is the worst thing which can happen to a small developer fo a niche market, and I'm afraid they won't survive without it.

No.

What is happening now is that the community base is losing the trust and respect of MG. A lot of people don't understand that, and this is by far the worst thing wich can happen to a small niche nerds like us...

I assure you that all MG members can make a lot of FPS games or any other title they want. They will not die in Moscow winter, starving. I can't make a combat flight sim from scratch and I PAY to MG to do it...

So, why in HELL people here assume themselves are so important?

Really...

[Fjordmonkey]

I personally think much of what's been going on here at the boards lately is storms in watercups, to be honest. Then again, maybe I'm just patient after years of gaming. Who knows?

If this had been an MMO where we paid €15 per month to play, then I might be inclined to sympathize and agree with much of the posts. Some would still say that since they've paid €50 for the product, that entitles them to behave like a rabid pack of ADHD-addled children on a sugar-high. Each to their own, I guess.

As I said, I'm patient. The sim has come leaps and bounds so far, and as long as I continue to see improvement, I'm happy. Rome wasn't built in a day, patience is a virtue, and more people should learn and understand that. Hell, the original IL2 also had it's share of issues when it launched, as far as I remember. And regardless of what people might say, software is rarely if ever error-free when it's released, and no piece of software survives meeting the myriad of configurations that are out there in terms of hardware, patches, drivers and tweaks.

Would I like to hear more from Luthier and the team about what they're working on etc? Sure I would. Am I about to go balls-to-the-walls monkey that they haven't done so? Nope, as that wouldn't solve anything. I'll simply choose to focus my energy somewhere else, and keep an eye out for further patches and test them as they come.

[furbs]

Hi Tommy, Im just calling it as i see it. If Luthier had posted something more than the usual *ahem* then i would be the first to say thank you. All i see is the same promises and less results each time.

That post takes the *ahem* and if you cant see it then bully for you.

And my life's fine cheers, just had egg and bacon with the Mrs. life's good :)

[Vengeanze]

Furbs, do us all a favour and stop embarrassing yourself in public.
You made your point. No shut it.

[furbs]

cheers vengence, but the only person who can decide that is my Mrs.(and she does)

[JG52Krupi]

This is comedy gold.

To sum up the last two weeks of this forum.

Whiners "Luthier post something, Luthier post something, Luthier post something and yet again Luthier post something!!!"

Luthier posts a message...

Whiners "I don't believe what you posted...."

Poor luthier he just can't win can he...

Please could you guys stop moaning your giving me a migraine... Bloody pathetic... This forum makes the gametrailers ps3/xbox fanboy arguments look mature and well reasoned :|

[Ze-Jamz]

This is comedy gold.

To sum up the last two weeks of this forum.

Whiners "Luthier post something, Luthier post something, Luthier post something and yet again Luthier post something!!!"

Luthier posts a message...

Whiners "I don't believe what you posted...."

Poor luthier he just can't win can he...

Please could you guys stop moaning your giving me a migraine... Bloody pathetic... This forum makes the gametrailers ps3/xbox fanboy arguments look mature and well reasoned :|

Very shallow post mate...

So your saying that what people are mainly upset about in here which is indeed communication..i.e updates has been answered by that post to the US market from Luthier...

You were not saying that were you..?

[furbs]

Seriously i think he is.

[Norseman]

Thank You SYN Bliss !
Totally agree on Your "headline" !

-got hours of GREAT fun online (Syndicate) already :-)
-the "problems" I had so far only make my "learning curve"
climb like a cheater..lol
The game worth every penny for me so far.

Bought IL2 back in 2002. Oh man, I had a looong way to go back then..
My patience really paid of then, and I believe it will now as well.

THX for Your great effort with the server!

-nb : this is no meal for trolls..pls

~S~

[Ataros]

This is comedy gold.

To sum up the last two weeks of this forum.

Whiners "Luthier post something, Luthier post something, Luthier post something and yet again Luthier post something!!!"

Luthier posts a message...

Whiners "I don't believe what you posted...."

Poor luthier he just can't win can he...

Please could you guys stop moaning your giving me a migraine... Bloody pathetic... This forum makes the gametrailers ps3/xbox fanboy arguments look mature and well reasoned :|

If luthier does not post anything this fact becomes a reason for complains, but only 1 reason. In case he posts anything a reason for complain can be found in every word he posts if someone wants to find it (too long, too little, not enough, poor, etc...)

Thus the less he posts the less reasons for complains exist. The same happened 6-8 years ago with Oleg's posts at sukhoi.ru Oleg had to stop posting there eventually.

The same will happen here. Only official announcements will probably happen because of 3-4 people who can not appreciate others' work or attention as we can see. No need to feed trolls (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpost.php?p=311645&postcount=79).

[JG52Krupi]

Very shallow post mate...

So your saying that what people are mainly upset about in here which is indeed communication..i.e updates has been answered by that post to the US market from Luthier...

You were not saying that were you..?

Shallow post not really... What is shallow is demanding he post every week about what he is doing when we already know what they are doing...

Why bother posting anything when all it does is appease ppl for less than an hour before the moaning starts again.

I have faith in luthier I have high expectations in the product and from what I have seen I trust the guys working away making this game better and better... Sure I was and an disappointed at what we got but you must be blind not to see the amount of effort the guys have put into this game.

They just bit off more than they could chew trying to hive us a fantastic product and what do we do? Do we praise there effort no we grab the pitch forks and go on a hunt.... Such a shameful display.

[kendo65]

...
Whiners "Luthier post something, Luthier post something, Luthier post something and yet again Luthier post something!!!"

Luthier posts a message...

Whiners "I don't believe what you posted...."

Poor luthier he just can't win can he...

...|

I was thinking the same thing.

I've got my share of complaints about the game and have expressed them recently, but Luthier is now in a complete no-win situation. Getting a lynch mob together isn't going to fix the game any faster!

[Opitz]

Shallow post not really... What is shallow is demanding he post every week about what he is doing when we already know what they are doing...

Why bother posting anything when all it does is appease ppl for less than an hour before the moaning starts again.

I have faith in luthier I have high expectations in the product and from what I have seen I trust the guys working away making this game better and better... Sure I was and an disappointed at what we got but you must be blind not to see the amount of effort the guys have put into this game.

They just bit off more than they could chew trying to hive us a fantastic product and what do we do? Do we praise there effort no we grab the pitch forks and go on a hunt.... Such a shameful display.


Why? Well, just because his customers WANT to... OMFG... this is just such straight evidence why everything in this "western" civilization goes straight to the toilet... Why? Why? Why? Just give/impose people what they don't want - and ignore them when they start to ask for something else and keep going as much as it is possible - this is the path to the prosperity (of companies, countries, societies, civilizations)...

Why bother with customers at all? Why the heck they are developing it btw? Just to have a work for next 10 years! Ha, now I got it... Shame they are not in European Union, they would ask for some kind of grant or subvention (to keep 25 people employed doing what nobody wants...)....

Just LOL... Sometimes it is just shocking what I can read here...

[JG52Krupi]

Wow optiz, shouldn't you be licking windows right now your clearly insane...

Yes I agree the western world is messed up and large companies get away with murder.... But this IS NOT a large company it's a small company producing a highly detailed and complex game for a TINY community.

I know that this game will be fixed 10 years of flying il2 have given me faith in the product... That enough for me.

[Ze-Jamz]

Dude..its like a tennis match in here and i guess everyone's right..

I have faith too in this game..id be truly upset if it didn't succeed..i can play the game on very high settings, the only annoying thing right now is MP sound..the other things which there are a lot off i can wait for, like i said its not like i cant play the game..

weekly updates? not bothered..just updates would be nice and as ive said a thousand times would calm this place down ten fold...if no one can see that then there isnt any help for you..

Im lucky i can play the game..others cant so that group of people want reinsurance they havent just wasted money on this title..

Never known such arguments and tone come from just wanting to be kept in the know with progress...on a broken 'paid' product

[ATAG_Bliss]

Tennis??!! You need to play golf ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81fwEmP2CKY

[Ze-Jamz]

http://dramaforlifebutonlyonstage.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/im-outta-here.jpeg?w=140&h=140

[Opitz]

Wow optiz, shouldn't you be licking windows right now your clearly insane...

Yes I agree the western world is messed up and large companies get away with murder.... But this IS NOT a large company it's a small company producing a highly detailed and complex game for a TINY community.

I know that this game will be fixed 10 years of flying il2 have given me faith in the product... That enough for me.

I am not talking about MG in this particular post, I referred to your post - your question "why", because it's always customers (of companies or state(as citizens)) whose make a difference and put the products and services to the next and better level. So yes, I am saying this - people like you are responsible for such "quality" of "BOB", because you are just ignoring the facts and you are happy with it.. More, you are defending it together with unacceptable marketing behaviors.

Btw. size of company doesnt matter. It is about business model, if I can even call it like that in this case, - it is about the way of marketing. How you value your customers... What we see here is is called "transactional marketing", but it just doesn't fit to the type of customers MG have. That's the most funny part of it. That nobody in MG is educated or experiences enough to see it and make changes in their marketing strategy to cope with it. What a shocking difference is ROF team's strategy!

I know how difficult is to repair or change something with same people who screwed it up. It is just not possible. You must have new people. I am still convinced that Luthier should be fired long time ago and new experienced manager should be working here on damage control and customer satisfaction... But probably, the real owners of MG, doesn't care, because this is not making a living for them. Maybe it's just a hobby to them, or some kind of charity because of love of flight sim, but it backfires as the falling price and minimal sales are not making such important feedback to them.

But look, I will not give here some lecture how to run the a specific company on very specific market segment and how to talk with your loyal, longterm customers...
I really loved IL2 series, my life is different now, I have family, kids, weekend in counryside, many other hobbies and friends... Why to waste my precious free time with such pain like flying in CLOD? But I still feel the love to the flight sim, to the flying and I feel this voice has to be heard too - not this way anymore, you are killing the whole WW2 flight sim world...

[JG52Krupi]

You clearly have not being in flight sims much as you are quite naive, games like this one have a small team and little in the way of resources as no one want to fund a genre that requires a huge amount of work for rather little gain... The problems your are on about cannot be applied to this game and plenty of people are still refusing to buy rof due to it's marketing method... Another sim which was in a similar state to this one on release.... But, like so many before you, you decide to ignore that fact!!!

I'm not defending the marketing of the sim genre I am just able to realise that games like this are undermanned and underfunded when compared to games that sell well with a vast amount of finding little in the way of complexity compared to a sim game and still have a silly amount of bugs.... So if a company like activison can sell the same game each year and with a silly amount of bugs why is anyone surprised that games like cod and rof have faltering starts.

[carguy_]

hmm.. words like "we'll get a community manager" should have calmed us down, rrright?!!

words are nothing, if they are not followed by deeds.. and I've started see to less and less words, and no deeds at all.. which is kinda of worrying..

RLY? There`s a TOPIC here where a guy just SAID that a simple "we are working on it" update will calm you people down! I guess you represent the other moaner group?


I've bought Il2CoD knowing fully the state of the game, but based on MG's history of patches and communication.. for me, they patching this game, and communicating with me is a moral part of this contract I've agreed when I've bought Il2CoD

Sorry, if you keep whining like that then surely you weren`t there to know the first two years of IL2. The comms were the same and the bugs were the same (besides the mp sound bug maybe).


which now seems like they are losing it.. so, i have all the motives in this world to be worried about!

Sure, you can be worrying. You can`t post moaner spamfest threads to go with it.


Maybe you don't understand, bt what is exactly happening right now is MG alienating and losing the trust and respect of their base community. Is the worst thing which can happen to a small developer fo a niche market, and I'm afraid they won't survive without it.
I admit the trust is gradually fading, to those that want their toys now at least. Others however do see the patches that came out and the progress in this game. Along with at least two freebie items (Bf190E-1 and the ship). But you want us all to see the darkest side ofcourse.

[robtek]

Opitz, you are so full of yourself.

You didn't even research, no thats too much, you didn't even look how MG, 1c and UBI are connected.

It was already posted quite a few times.

MG is the developer, thats it, nothing more.

Devs don't do marketing!

1c is the publisher, the publisher does the financing and, here it comes, the marketing.
In the case of 1c only in the east.

In the rest of the world UBI is the publisher and accountable for the marketing.

We here have the unique situation that the devs are talking directly to us, they don't have to do this, there is no obligation, but they do it anyway.

So you are ranting against MG, which already does more than it has to do (fixing the sim) by giving us information that the publisher didn't give.

Next you say that Luthier, a person, i assume, you dont know personally, is incompetent.
Whow, i envy your insights in the workings of MG, you've worked there, or at least visited the company a few times.
Nah, i dont think so.

Furthermore you implement that somebody doesn't care if the faults are fixed, that talks a lot about your state of mind.

If one doesn't has to post something positive (pointing out bugs and errors is positive) and new, one shouldn't post at all.

Ooops! Reading my last sentence i shouldn't have posted this. Sorry, couldn't help it. :D

[PeterPanPan]

Dude..its like a tennis match in here ...

New balls please ...

PPP

[Opitz]

Opitz, you are so full of yourself.

You didn't even research, no thats too much, you didn't even look how MG, 1c and UBI are connected.

It was already posted quite a few times.

MG is the developer, thats it, nothing more.

Devs don't do marketing!

1c is the publisher, the publisher does the financing and, here it comes, the marketing.
In the case of 1c only in the east.

In the rest of the world UBI is the publisher and accountable for the marketing.

We here have the unique situation that the devs are talking directly to us, they don't have to do this, there is no obligation, but they do it anyway.

So you are ranting against MG, which already does more than it has to do (fixing the sim) by giving us information that the publisher didn't give.

Next you say that Luthier, a person, i assume, you dont know personally, is incompetent.
Whow, i envy your insights in the workings of MG, you've worked there, or at least visited the company a few times.
Nah, i dont think so.

Furthermore you implement that somebody doesn't care if the faults are fixed, that talks a lot about your state of mind.

If one doesn't has to post something positive (pointing out bugs and errors is positive) and new, one shouldn't post at all.

Ooops! Reading my last sentence i shouldn't have posted this. Sorry, couldn't help it. :D

You guys are missing my point. It is nothing personal. But you react like little girls - don't forget to mention some of my errors in my psychological profile.

What you the heck talking about? Devs are talking to us? How, where? How often? You live in illusion...
Look... Luthier didnt deliver for Russians, for West and for USA... but he is still the right person in charge. Hell, yes! :-P

edit. Luthier is doing "marketing" all the time, but as we can(or can't) see here, he is not aware of it... Lack of interaction with customer is also kind of communication...

[JG52Krupi]

New balls please ...

PPP

No need robtek just one the game, set and match :)

[Opitz]

You clearly have not being in flight sims much as you are quite naive, games like this one have a small team and little in the way of resources as no one want to fund a genre that requires a huge amount of work for rather little gain... The problems your are on about cannot be applied to this game and plenty of people are still refusing to buy rof due to it's marketing method... Another sim which was in a similar state to this one on release.... But, like so many before you, you decide to ignore that fact!!!

I'm not defending the marketing of the sim genre I am just able to realise that games like this are undermanned and underfunded when compared to games that sell well with a vast amount of finding little in the way of complexity compared to a sim game and still have a silly amount of bugs.... So if a company like activison can sell the same game each year and with a silly amount of bugs why is anyone surprised that games like cod and rof have faltering starts.

If this is truth what you say, how the heck neoqb survived first release? How even smaller team of devs can live from even smaller market segment? Even some of IL2 fanboys don't want to buy it, they can play it FOR FREE! ;) How they dare to give it for free?

[Ze-Jamz]

No need robtek just one the game, set and match :)

Oh dear.. you sure that's just cream you've got on those strawberries?

[vicinity]

I know how difficult is to repair or change something with same people who screwed it up. It is just not possible. You must have new people. I am still convinced that Luthier should be fired long time ago and new experienced manager should be working here on damage control and customer satisfaction... But probably, the real owners of MG, doesn't care, because this is not making a living for them. Maybe it's just a hobby to them, or some kind of charity because of love of flight sim, but it backfires as the falling price and minimal sales are not making such important feedback to them.
Wow, that is some plain bare-faced cheek right there! Who are you exactly to think or say someone should be fired? What are you basing that opinion on? Luthier's job is to lead the development team that creates the game, as JG52Krupi said above there would likely be nothing in his contract telling him he has to post on a forum every week to appease a bunch of pessimistic complainers. Who exactly would you suggest they bring in that could better lead that team to continue fixing the game other than a man that has been working there pretty much from the beginning?

I also love how you go on to say "I will not give here some lecture how to run the a specific company on very specific market segment and how to talk with your loyal, longterm customers". Hilarious.

[JG52Krupi]

If this is truth what you say, how the heck neoqb survived first release? How even smaller team of devs can live from even smaller market segment? Even some of IL2 fanboys don't want to buy it, they can play it FOR FREE! ;) How they dare to give it for free?

I brought rof around release the only guy in jg52 to do so, they only just started giving the main game away for free and it has a similar sized team... it is a good game but was it good at release hell no..