hello luthier!

[David198502]

nice to see you here!
is it possible to get any update on the progress???

[JG52Uther]

yes, that would be nice.

[David198502]

well he is gone again!at least it was worth a try.
mods you can remove this thread.

[furbs]

seriously, was he taking the mickey with that post or is it just me?

[albx]

LOLLLLLING at luthier's post sticked and locked, welcome US customers, that says all

[Meusli]

Why? He has just reiterated what he has said on previous occasions. Fair enough he has been quiet for 18 days but if he has nothing more to add to the promises he has already made then why bother.

[JG52Krupi]

Welcome US customers.
Thanks for the cash.

Two things...

If they had a brain they would know that there are problems and have purchased it regardless.

It's Ubi that are responsible for the us release, if they want to moan they should aim it at Ubi for releasing a game that is known to have problems.

[hiro]

Bigger picture:


Americans are the king of complaint; we just released this thing to them,
despite recommendations not to release in the first place but that is a another thread in itself.

patch while they are ordering the game, waiting for fed ex or for them to just finished wiping their cars down it's time to cruise so they head to the summertime game depot . . .

Make a End of the week patch available, 1 (working) patch can silence many.

[Vittuuntunut]

From Luthiers recent sticky: "The game ... is currently a #1 top selling Simulation title on steam!"

Now, how cool is that! I just can´t wait for all of them new customers come rioting here. The US release is motivated with nothing but pure desperation.

"We are already working on a sequel as we continue to support and improve Cliffs of Dover."

In the previous sentences he explained how small of a team they are. It´s great that they have time to work on a sequel, while the core game is still in it´s present, hideous state.

I really don´t care about the roadmaps or any kind of information anymore, ´cause this all is getting rather silly. The actions taken by the devs, publisher, anyone related to the production of this game are really shameful.

I personally would like to see some coherent results with these patches, some constant progress. Every patch so far has been just desperate back-and-forth attempt to fix what now seems to be pretty rotten core.

Who can seriously defend this kind of bad business? I mean, really? "They´ll fix it, you´ll see" - explanation is not enough anymore, nor is "this is the only WWII-sim coming for ages, so you gotta defend it"

And the very selective censorship in this forum is making me sick. Same guys can say whatever they want, however rude without any consequences, while some "known troublemakers" get banned or get their posts deleted at first instant, EVEN THOUGH they didn´t break any of the forum rules. Yes, criticisms are pretty much repetitive, but then again, so is this bad business model. They´ve done it again.

[Opitz]

"That means that the team is growing, we are hiring, and we’re not going anywhere."

Is it some kind of threat?

[the Dutchman]

goodbye €'s,HELLO $$'s.....................:rolleyes:

[ATAG_Bliss]

This is like the nut house :)

Everyone's begging for Luthier to say something. So what happens? Luthier responds with a confirmation of continued support and about the lack of communication.

Basically he finally comes here to say something and now everyone goes back to putting on the tin foil hats. And anyone really needs to wonder why the communication is lacking around here? He doesn't post, everyone is crying. He posts, everyone's crying.

I mean, cmon fellas..

Wait a minute..






















Ok, phew.. Lets go back to that dead horse again :grin:

[Ataros]

Basically he finally comes here to say something and now everyone goes back to putting on the tin foil hats. And anyone really needs to wonder why the communication is lacking around here? He doesn't post, everyone is crying. He posts, everyone's crying.



They do not want communication or the game fixed. They need a subject to complain about as they get more emotional benefits from it as I explain in another thread about forums quality. Negative personalities will remain negative, you will see.

[furbs]

Im sorry but Luthiers post *swear word* me more than before, he says he reads this forum?? and them comes on and posts that?

What have they been doing for the last 4 weeks???

Que Carguy, Blackdog, robtek and the others to now tell me "look he posted" be calm, just wait, your being silly.

you guys wait and play nice, im happy for you, i really am. but dont even reply to me cos i dont care and im not listening ok?

Me? im *swearwords* off like you wouldnt believe with that waste of internet space post.

[ATAG_Bliss]

And how soon you forget the number of months we all waited before we could even enjoy a 10 minute session on the current flight sim you play.

[SYN_Repent]

no bliss, i aint forgot that, i remind myself and others of that almost every day, but is that acceptable, to have to wait months?? i also remember the uproar over at that other flight sims forums, are you telling me luthier and his gang didnt have the time even then to look at those forums, and learn from their mistakes?? bliss, the game has massive deep lying issues, yer they say they will be fixed and have recently confirmed their continued support, but they have just released a title they know is buggy as hell, christ, look at the sound bug, its not fit for purpose, i dont see their business model, is it "buy it now and we will fix it later, but dont complain if you dont hear anything from us while we are fixing it?" from your point bliss id love to hear, you have spent lots of time trying to fix it, build a mission that works, well done for that, but its still a million miles off of a saleable product.

[Rattlehead]

but they have just released a title they know is buggy as hell, christ, look at the sound bug, its not fit for purpose,

Who is "they"? Who are you blaming?

[SYN_Repent]

they!, who do YOU think? not the fbi, or the cia, not microprose, and not activision, im not gonna spell it out for you.

[Ataros]

they!, who do YOU think? not the fbi, or the cia, not microprose, and not activision, im not gonna spell it out for you.

You should know that the game is developed by one company but issued by another if you read forums.

[ATAG_Bliss]

no bliss, i aint forgot that, i remind myself and others of that almost every day, but is that acceptable, to have to wait months?? i also remember the uproar over at that other flight sims forums, are you telling me luthier and his gang didnt have the time even then to look at those forums, and learn from their mistakes?? bliss, the game has massive deep lying issues, yer they say they will be fixed and have recently confirmed their continued support, but they have just released a title they know is buggy as hell, christ, look at the sound bug, its not fit for purpose, i dont see their business model, is it "buy it now and we will fix it later, but dont complain if you dont hear anything from us while we are fixing it?" from your point bliss id love to hear, you have spent lots of time trying to fix it, build a mission that works, well done for that, but its still a million miles off of a saleable product.

What do you expect? Would you rather have these guys make a game like a first person shooter that's only content is the different amounts of weapons you can fit yourself with and then sell it to the masses for large profit? I can't even begin to imagine the sheer amount of research involved for a WWII sim let alone the complexities they are trying to do with this one. And those complexities are 10x that of some Call of Duty 15 or w/e # it's on now. There's more to compute in a spitfire cockpit than the entire character in a Call of Duty game. Those MASSIVE companies that release a simple FPS still release games with bugs and they have unlimited resources and work force. A flight sim, especially this one, is soo much more complex, yet is sold to a very very small community of people. In other words, the profits are nowhere near (if anything) to where a console crap game or a PC FPS is.

And for having deep lying issues (as you call it) this sim can have 1000x more planes and objects in a mission than ROF could ever imagine. I'd say the foundation for a solid immersive flight sim engine is there. I'd much rather have a sound bug currently, or a prop pitch lever that's backwards, or an FM problem than have the entire foundation of the flight sim with an extremely limited game engine which can't be changed.

[SYN_Repent]

Ok, they should have had a patch or a fix available ready for the us release, which they am I talking about? You decide

[SYN_Repent]

You mean like non collidable trees bliss, dont start preaching to me about flight sims bliss, you talk about 10 years of support, how many of those years did you see bliss

[furbs]

Oleg has gone, dont count on anything.

[ATAG_Bliss]

You mean like non collidable trees bliss, dont start preaching to me about flight sims bliss, you talk about 10 years of support, how many of those years did you see bliss


What do you want? If you don't think it will get fixed, I'll gladly buy your copy and you can be done with it and stop complaining.

[furbs]

Enjoying the banter guys but dont you have TS? :)

[SYN_Repent]

I want luthier to spend 30 seconds to let me know (by me a mean the hundreds others as well) of any progress in fixing the game, so I can get some enjoyment out of something I waited years for and spent money on, surely that ain't a lot to ask is it? I'm not asking for daily texts to my mobile, just some sort of information from the devs on the devs forum

[ATAG_Bliss]

I want luthier to spend 30 seconds to let me know (by me a mean the hundreds others as well) of any progress in fixing the game, so I can get some enjoyment out of something I waited years for and spent money on, surely that ain't a lot to ask is it? I'm not asking for daily texts to my mobile, just some sort of information from the devs on the devs forum

Ah. So I take it you missed what was posted today?

5. You can meet more members of the team in my earlier post here, which also contains a sort of a rough roadmap of what we’re currently working on:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24240

[Opitz]

It is all as I predicted right in the beginning, and got banned for it few times. I told everyone, nobody ever will be able to repair it, IF they will not rewrite it from the scratch! The sounds is, as Luthier is saying, such case...

So I see their real plan - just to sell it in US to the rest of their customer base, which trusted them to provide the patch for the most obvious bugs in this "game". Trust was again broken. Not for the first time, but believe me, nobody cares, because payment transaction is done, and you'll never see your money back. And you have to be patient, as a member of IL2 community, and don't ask unpleasant question. And beware to demand anything!!
They will give you IL2 sturmovik after couple of months, with some bugs corrections, but the engine will be same, there will be still missing any reasonable content. They are following same model as with old IL2... selling addons or "patches"...
Get it or leave. This is their message. I left. I am here just to observe and learn how such marketing strategy is complete failure.

[JG52Krupi]

Lol nice to see that me and JG52Uther are not the only squad members having it out on the banana forums :D

Bliss you have touched upon a lot of the things I have mentioned (okay okay i know his post is more mature and articulate than mine) but unfortunately the things that are obvious to us (especially the fps comparison) just falls on deaf ears.

Nice try though :)

[Tvrdi]

@Bliss - I want this sim to succeed...I mean I wouldnt be so frustrated (because of bad performance on my modern rig) that I dont care. I would just trash it. But everything I tried (with all my HW and SW knowledge and years of experience with tweaking wins and games) didnt help. Im still having a bad performance. Its a bit better with textures set to med but then the game is much uglier. And still Im loosing sound online; trees are not there in fact. FM is great (DM better than in ROF) but I dont like how the game looks (except cockpits which are great looking). It looks like a vivid cartoon. And there are occasional stutters too. Builidings and trees are causing problems fps wise. So more or less its unplayable for me in current state. Thats where my frustration comes from.
I really hope one day this sim will be optimised and with improved sounds and landscape, with working trees (not the ghost trees we have now). I cant call this a serious top sim with ghost trees and bad/not working sounds. I know the sim market is small, and small teams are working on top sims. But this is not a finished product, in fact it wasnt even a beta when it was released (IMHO). Thats not a way your getting new/old customers BACK. Thats a worst "marketing".
Hope things will look better in the future.

[wolf74]

@Bliss - I want this sim to succeed...I mean I wouldnt be so frustrated (because of bad performance on my modern rig) that I dont care. I would just trash it. But everything I tried (with all my HW and SW knowledge and years of experience with tweaking wins and games) didnt help. Im still having a bad performance. Its a bit better with textures set to med but then the game is much uglier. And still Im loosing sound online; trees are not there in fact. FM is great (DM better than in ROF) but I dont like how the game looks (except cockpits which are great looking). It looks like a vivid cartoon. And there are occasional stutters too. Builidings and trees are causing problems fps wise. So more or less its unplayable for me in current state. Thats where my frustration comes from.
I really hope one day this sim will be optimised and with improved sounds and landscape, with working trees (not the ghost trees we have now). I cant call this a serious top sim with ghost trees and bad/not working sounds. I know the sim market is small, and small teams are working on top sims. But this is not a finished product, in fact it wasnt even a beta when it was released (IMHO). Thats not a way your getting new/old customers BACK. Thats a worst "marketing".
Hope things will look better in the future.

Agree.

[the Dutchman]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_XdItny_fxJ0/R-HqIhFZuRI/AAAAAAAAALQ/togHugpDJkk/s400/Beating+a+Dead+Horse.jpg

[Vittuuntunut]

It is all as I predicted right in the beginning, and got banned for it few times. I told everyone, nobody ever will be able to repair it, IF they will not rewrite it from the scratch! The sounds is, as Luthier is saying, such case...

So I see their real plan - just to sell it in US to the rest of their customer base, which trusted them to provide the patch for the most obvious bugs in this "game". Trust was again broken. Not for the first time, but believe me, nobody cares, because payment transaction is done, and you'll never see your money back. And you have to be patient, as a member of IL2 community, and don't ask unpleasant question. And beware to demand anything!!
They will give you IL2 sturmovik after couple of months, with some bugs corrections, but the engine will be same, there will be still missing any reasonable content. They are following same model as with old IL2... selling addons or "patches"...
Get it or leave. This is their message. I left. I am here just to observe and learn how such marketing strategy is complete failure.

Amen, brother! This is not a pleasant prophecy, but unfortunately a VERY reasonable one.

[Sven]

"That means that the team is growing, we are hiring, and we’re not going anywhere."

Is it some kind of threat?

In your mind it is, to most other people it means that MG will continue on the game regardless of the current state and that they even hire new employees like the one working on the new sound right now.

[Doc_uk]

Is this, The suckuper thread :)

[ATAG_Bliss]

@Bliss - I want this sim to succeed...I mean I wouldnt be so frustrated (because of bad performance on my modern rig) that I dont care. I would just trash it. But everything I tried (with all my HW and SW knowledge and years of experience with tweaking wins and games) didnt help. Im still having a bad performance. Its a bit better with textures set to med but then the game is much uglier. And still Im loosing sound online; trees are not there in fact. FM is great (DM better than in ROF) but I dont like how the game looks (except cockpits which are great looking). It looks like a vivid cartoon. And there are occasional stutters too. Builidings and trees are causing problems fps wise. So more or less its unplayable for me in current state. Thats where my frustration comes from.
I really hope one day this sim will be optimised and with improved sounds and landscape, with working trees (not the ghost trees we have now). I cant call this a serious top sim with ghost trees and bad/not working sounds. I know the sim market is small, and small teams are working on top sims. But this is not a finished product, in fact it wasnt even a beta when it was released (IMHO). Thats not a way your getting new/old customers BACK. Thats a worst "marketing".
Hope things will look better in the future.

Tvrdi,

I hear exactly what you are saying and agree 100% about things needing fixed and optimized. But I can also tell you that you can play the sim 100% stutter free if you find the right eye candy to shut off.

Before I go on, my system specs i7 990x @ 4.5 | 2 x 580 GTX 3gb | 12 gigs DDR3 @ 1600 | XFI | 30" monitor @ 2560 x 1600

I can play the game maxed out, but will have stuttering and FPS that goes anywhere from 20-60 (could drop into the single digits with smoke effects) while flying online. To alleviate this I tried 1920x1200. Help, but still had occasional micro stutters. I finally had to go down to 1650x1050 and set land textures to medium to eliminate the micro stutter (not spawn stutter) and to stay above 50FPS (unless smoke) all the time.

I even bought as SSD thinking it might help with loading the massive amounts of textures. So I put steam/IL2COD on the SSD (a vertex III 6gbps) and reinstall the game. When I fired it up I had texture corruption. Then when I played online, I lost sound within 5 minutes. So this time I completely deleted everything from steam and the documents folder (1cSoft) and made sure to completely uninstall everything. So on reinstall #2 on the SSD, I had the same exact problem.

Long story short, the only way I fixed my game (no sound bug) was going back and installing both the documents folder and steam on the same hard drive win7 was on. I went back and deleted every single registry entry for IL2COD and, now on my 3rd install, am finally back to where I started.

This type of stuff makes me wonder how many people are experiencing these same types of problems just by a simple reinstall of the game? Not only did changing it over to a different drive ruin both my sound and textures, it also forced me to spend an hour in the registry just to be sure I was actually at the same point I was before I even installed the game.

Another thing is if you want it to play good, you have to be willing to sacrifice eye candy and resolution. I have, essentially, the best all around CPU currently made and 2 of the highest performing GFX cards on the market and I had to notch down 2x my native resolution and turn textures down to be fluent.

I can also tell you, from when I was deployed in the middle east, that I could play the game very smoothly on a laptop with going hardcore on lowering quality settings. Should I have to? Probably not, but that's the way it is. So you can get rid of your microstutters. IMO, you can even get rid of the sound bug like I did, but it'll take quality hit to do it. And depending on if you've ever reinstalled the game somewhere else, you might even have to get into the registry as well. Because, here I am with a $500 SSD that I can't even put the one game on I wanted to regardless of what I do.

But I do not have stutters, and even at 1650x1050 my game looks and plays fantastic both online and off.

[Ze-Jamz]

Is this, The suckuper thread :)

http://rlv.zcache.com/brown_nose_tshirt-p235237666902091023q6lb_400.jpg

[LoBiSoMeM]

Funniest thread ever!

I run really good the "unfixable sim" stated by Optiz, the genious in computer sim design...

I like a lot Luthier Way: sarcasm with fools!

Some even now don't understand how amazing is this engine... why lose time talking to this kind of stupid person?

+1 to Luthier. Some in this forum don't deserve regular updates.

[Ze-Jamz]

Tvrdi,

I hear exactly what you are saying and agree 100% about things needing fixed and optimized. But I can also tell you that you can play the sim 100% stutter free if you find the right eye candy to shut off.

Before I go on, my system specs i7 990x @ 4.5 | 2 x 580 GTX 3gb | 12 gigs DDR3 @ 1600 | XFI | 30" monitor @ 2560 x 1600

I can play the game maxed out, but will have stuttering and FPS that goes anywhere from 20-60 (could drop into the single digits with smoke effects) while flying online. To alleviate this I tried 1920x1200. Help, but still had occasional micro stutters. I finally had to go down to 1650x1050 and set land textures to medium to eliminate the micro stutter (not spawn stutter) and to stay above 50FPS (unless smoke) all the time.

I even bought as SSD thinking it might help with loading the massive amounts of textures. So I put steam/IL2COD on the SSD (a vertex III 6gbps) and reinstall the game. When I fired it up I had texture corruption. Then when I played online, I lost sound within 5 minutes. So this time I completely deleted everything from steam and the documents folder (1cSoft) and made sure to completely uninstall everything. So on reinstall #2 on the SSD, I had the same exact problem.

Long story short, the only way I fixed my game (no sound bug) was going back and installing both the documents folder and steam on the same hard drive win7 was on. I went back and deleted every single registry entry for IL2COD and, now on my 3rd install, am finally back to where I started.

This type of stuff makes me wonder how many people are experiencing these same types of problems just by a simple reinstall of the game? Not only did changing it over to a different drive ruin both my sound and textures, it also forced me to spend an hour in the registry just to be sure I was actually at the same point I was before I even installed the game.

Another thing is if you want it to play good, you have to be willing to sacrifice eye candy and resolution. I have, essentially, the best all around CPU currently made and 2 of the highest performing GFX cards on the market and I had to notch down 2x my native resolution and turn textures down to be fluent.

I can also tell you, from when I was deployed in the middle east, that I could play the game very smoothly on a laptop with going hardcore on lowering quality settings. Should I have to? Probably not, but that's the way it is. So you can get rid of your microstutters. IMO, you can even get rid of the sound bug like I did, but it'll take quality hit to do it. And depending on if you've ever reinstalled the game somewhere else, you might even have to get into the registry as well. Because, here I am with a $500 SSD that I can't even put the one game on I wanted to regardless of what I do.

But I do not have stutters, and even at 1650x1050 my game looks and plays fantastic both online and off.

Dude i take my hat of to yer...If i had that rig and had to go through what you've gone through to then only play it on what i class as Med settings id be going...well i wouldn't be a happy chappy

[furbs]

Bliss, first you shouldn't have to go all through that to get COD to run well, its badly optimized and coded.
with your hardware you shouldnt have to jump through hoops, textures set to medium with 2x 580 3gb?? !!!
that my friend takes the *beep*

So your playing online with a game that looks like this in 2011 with your kit? and your happy with this...

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8902/launcher201107201124045.jpg
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2011-07-20

when the landscape from a good IL2 map looks like this...

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2576/landscape2.png
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2011-01-24

[Opitz]

In your mind it is, to most other people it means that MG will continue on the game regardless of the current state and that they even hire new employees like the one working on the new sound right now.

And where are such experienced employees? If they are why they were not hired first time? Nobody in the "project management", Luthier or whoever, noticed anything going in wrong direction in the last 6-7 years? Come on!

How many people with deep knowledge of AI in flight sims are on the russian job market now? One? Two? None?
It is not so easy to hire someone and just wait for miracles. Believe me. Or not... Anyway, I am not trusting Luthier anymore. He is just writing same BS all the time... For example he wrote he reads the threads here everyday. Really? So why he is ignoring some straightforward and easy questions? Instead of answering questions from tomorrow, last week, last month, he is reading WHAT? That someone make some nice screenshot in Photoshop?

Man, some people needs to be manipulated, but that's not my case. You can count now on your fingers how many people here are unconditionally happy with the status of this game, and more with the way Luthier is dealing with them -his real and only customers-. This is just an insult in any culture to the West from Russia borders...

[Opitz]

Funniest thread ever!

I run really good the "unfixable sim" stated by Optiz, the genious in computer sim design...

I like a lot Luthier Way: sarcasm with fools!

Some even now don't understand how amazing is this engine... why lose time talking to this kind of stupid person?

+1 to Luthier. Some in this forum don't deserve regular updates.


OK, one here... Next one? I still have nine fingers left...

[ATAG_Bliss]

The only thing medium is ground textures. Everything else is maxed and on. And I'm not staring at the ground too often at 5000m :)

But generally, if someone is getting good performance and someone else is not with 2 very comparable systems, the reason doesn't always have to be software. It's little stuff like reg edits. True clean installs etc, that can and will make all the difference in the world.

Edit: @ furbs, high to med ground textures are hardly noticable! Mine looks like all the fancy screen shot stills, except it looks like that 100% of the time live flying :) Like I said, I wanted 60FPS all the time and no stutters. 1650x1050 with 8x AA still looks amazing.

[David198502]

+1 furbs!
exactly my thought!
especially the good ol slowakia map kicks the young sick and ugly looking brother in the bu** big time.
thats ridiculous...
if you guys dont see that, than you are either blind or just plain dumb.
and if you are all happy with that, why on earth should they deliver something better.
thats not how progress is made.

[furbs]

The only thing medium is ground textures. Everything else is maxed and on. And I'm not staring at the ground too often at 5000m :)

But generally, if someone is getting good performance and someone else is not with 2 very comparable systems, the reason doesn't always have to be software. It's little stuff like reg edits. True clean installs etc, that can and will make all the difference in the world.

Edit: @ furbs, high to med ground textures are hardly noticable! Mine looks like all the fancy screen shot stills, except it looks like that 100% of the time live flying :) Like I said, I wanted 60FPS all the time and no stutters. 1650x1050 with 8x AA still looks amazing.

Il try it Bliss ok, though you do know FSAA x8 is the same as x2 right?

[ATAG_Bliss]

furbs

I did it all through the nvidia control panel. I made my global settings mask what I wanted in IL2COD - 32xAA and it does work, especially in the cockpit.

Edit - the 8x AA in game doesn't do anything for me, but I have it turned on lol..

[carguy_]

From Luthiers recent sticky: "The game ... is currently a #1 top selling Simulation title on steam!"

Now, how cool is that! I just can´t wait for all of them new customers come rioting here. The US release is motivated with nothing but pure desperation.
New people are always welcome.


"We are already working on a sequel as we continue to support and improve Cliffs of Dover."

In the previous sentences he explained how small of a team they are. It´s great that they have time to work on a sequel, while the core game is still in it´s present, hideous state.
It has been explained before, but it seems you did not understood. 1C tam can`t be blamed for your lack of comprehension. The game is currently in good state, yet it takes some more work. The progress has been there since the release.


I really don´t care about the roadmaps or any kind of information anymore, ´cause this all is getting rather silly. The actions taken by the devs, publisher, anyone related to the production of this game are really shameful.
You don`t care about this game at all. Yet you somehow continue to roam these forums and complain. I suggest you leave rightaway.
The devs are supporting CloD and will continue to do so.


I personally would like to see some coherent results with these patches, some constant progress. Every patch so far has been just desperate back-and-forth attempt to fix what now seems to be pretty rotten core.
I`m sorry if you`re not satisfied with the progress. Majority of users reported progress both in compatibility and playability of this game. This progress can be described as three steps forth, one step back. But you ofcourse only see the bad side.


Who can seriously defend this kind of bad business? I mean, really? "They´ll fix it, you´ll see" - explanation is not enough anymore, nor is "this is the only WWII-sim coming for ages, so you gotta defend it"
Bad buisness...Well it`s not the best, but since this is the only such flightsim on the market it would be clever to support it until it goes full steam ahead. If you don`t like it, you`re free to leave.


And the very selective censorship in this forum is making me sick. Same guys can say whatever they want, however rude without any consequences, while some "known troublemakers" get banned or get their posts deleted at first instant, EVEN THOUGH they didn´t break any of the forum rules. Yes, criticisms are pretty much repetitive, but then again, so is this bad business model. They´ve done it again.
Censorship is the same word the boohoo-I have no life- please -fix -this -game -or -I`ll kill myself whiners can come up with. Your constructive abilities end right there.

Have a nice day.

[furbs]

Ignoring carguy's waffle...

Bliss im not sure it does mate, ive set my in the CP and not noticed anything...could you post a before and after screenie please?

[Rattlehead]

There's more to compute in a spitfire cockpit than the entire character in a Call of Duty game. Those MASSIVE companies that release a simple FPS still release games with bugs and they have unlimited resources and work force. A flight sim, especially this one, is soo much more complex, yet is sold to a very very small community of people. In other words, the profits are nowhere near (if anything) to where a console crap game or a PC FPS is.



Folks, bear with me on this post.

Some people may have tried this game called Test Drive Unlimited 2, developed by Eden Games, published by Atari. It's for all systems. I bought it on the Xbox 360.
Briefly, it is a sequel to a free roaming racing game of the same name released a while ago. The first game was pretty solid with no real issues.

This sequel was probably more buggy than Clod was when released. Keep in mind this game was partly developed for static hardware. (Consoles.)

After 10 hours of playing this game, my saved game was completely wiped out. Gone. Apparently it was a known problem, but it still happened to me and thousands of others.
There was so much slowdown that if I wasn't leading the race, it was almost unplayable. I'm talking maybe 10-15 fps, tops. There was slowdown even when I was driving around on my own.
The GPS in the game was so buggy that it forgot to track my mileage, and if I went off course I was put back MILES from where I went off, and the car handling?
Well, the Golf Gti and The Audi R8 were undriveable. It's like they had trolley wheels at the back.
Not only that, but they hacked out a lot of the cars and all the bikes that were in the original game.
There were other issues that I won't go into, but my point is that this was a pretty simple arcade racing game developed for static hardware, and it was absolutely ripe with bugs.
The complexities of developing a complicated flight sim for PC versus relatively simple arcade racers developed for static hardware don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath really.

Anyone played Medieval Total War for PC? The game could not even be completed without a huge patch that followed later. Slowdown on even the fastest systems (I was getting 5 fps in some parts at the time) and a myriad of other really significant bugs which made the game a real chore to play at first. (It did blossom later, after a few patches.)

People act like bugs or early releases are something new. Well, they're not. And thanks to the era of digital downloads, you can expect more and more games being released early and full of bugs, patches to follow.
It's just the way it is these days.

Only the biggest development houses with hundreds of employees can really release a polished (not bug free, mind you) game these days, and even then their job is made inifintely easier because the largest gaming audiences are on consoles, which haven't changed since 2005.
Last time I checked, there was no flight sim on the consoles, nor will there ever be.

I'm not saying paying customers should just put up with whatever comes their way, but a little understanding of the enormous challenges these guys who develop simulators face need to be understood.

Sorry for the ramble.

[carguy_]

Im sorry but Luthiers post *swear word* me more than before, he says he reads this forum?? and them comes on and posts that?

What have they been doing for the last 4 weeks???
They have been working on fixing the game and the US release of it. It might be that the release itself might have taken some more time though. I guess that`s Ubisoft pressure.


Que Carguy, Blackdog, robtek and the others to now tell me "look he posted" be calm, just wait, your being silly.
You can count on me.

My thanks to the other listed guys!


you guys wait and play nice, im happy for you, i really am. but dont even reply to me cos i dont care and im not listening ok?

Me? im *swearwords* off like you wouldnt believe with that waste of internet space post.
It`s nice. Really. You can go play somewhere else. It`s obvious you`re seriously lacking in having something to do. Still, your behavior here must be met with adequate response rightaway.

[Ze-Jamz]

Ignoring carguy's waffle...

Bliss im not sure it does mate, ive set my in the CP and not noticed anything...could you post a before and after screenie please?

That would be good Bliss..i didnt think it made a difference?

[Sven]

And where are such experienced employees?

Have you played Rise of Flight? Probably not, otherwise you would know that the sound in that game is really good. The same guy now works for MG as well. I'm confident that the sound will be great.

Here's some of his work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyFuZuleVc4

[Redroach]

Is it just me or is luthier basically ignoring "the rest of the world" in his post? Way to beat the old "slap in the face" horse again... :(

THIS POST HAS BEEN REPORTED!

[Opitz]

is carguy_ running for the community manager seat here?

[Ze-Jamz]

Have you played Rise of Flight? Probably not, otherwise you would know that the sound in that game is really good. The same guy now works for MG as well. I'm confident that the sound will be great.

Here's some of his work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyFuZuleVc4

Agreed..i don't think anyone's disputing that Sven :)

[ATAG_Bliss]

furbs,

Trust me it does. But I went all hog wild with it at turned up every global setting to highest quality and highest AA/AF. If I looked on the wings (zoomed in) from the cockpit, I could see very tiny jaggies before. Mind you this was completely zoomed in. Now if I do the same, the wing line is perfectly straight. Same goes for virtually all other surfaces I can see from the pit. Do I know how much AA/AF actually is doing anything? No. But w/e I did in the control panel made it work. Now if only I could get SLI to work!

I'll try to make some before and after screenies though.

Edit: all you bastages post really fast :)

[carguy_]

no bliss, i aint forgot that, i remind myself and others of that almost every day, but is that acceptable, to have to wait months??
Yes, it is. I don`t know what you think, but I figure that since it`s the rule that with big releases such as Crysis or NFS, one has to wait a few months to get a patch that presents really small fixes. The second patch for SHIFT2 Unleashed is remains to be seen for example. Now 1C team making CloD is maybe ten, twenty times smaller than that. You get me?


i also remember the uproar over at that other flight sims forums, are you telling me luthier and his gang didnt have the time even then to look at those forums, and learn from their mistakes??
From the update threads it is obvious that all listed bugs have been taken into account by 1C. Jugding from that, it is also obvious they visit these forums from time to time.


bliss, the game has massive deep lying issues, yer they say they will be fixed and have recently confirmed their continued support, but they have just released a title they know is buggy as hell, christ, look at the sound bug, its not fit for purpose, i dont see their business model, is it "buy it now and we will fix it later, but dont complain if you dont hear anything from us while we are fixing it?" from your point bliss id love to hear, you have spent lots of time trying to fix it, build a mission that works, well done for that, but its still a million miles off of a saleable product.
It`s an undeniable fact that this game has few massive issues like you say. But since the team is small, I`d give them a little more time. It`s a small team, by EA standards you can say VERY small. And please remember that anything releasing outside Russia is Ubisoft buisness model.

[carguy_]

I want luthier to spend 30 seconds to let me know (by me a mean the hundreds others as well) of any progress in fixing the game, so I can get some enjoyment out of something I waited years for and spent money on, surely that ain't a lot to ask is it? I'm not asking for daily texts to my mobile, just some sort of information from the devs on the devs forum
You have been given Luthier`s answers multiple times before.
You have waited and spent money like all the rest but you can surely see that not all of us react in the same way, right? Patience , mate.

[Opitz]

Have you played Rise of Flight? Probably not, otherwise you would know that the sound in that game is really good. The same guy now works for MG as well. I'm confident that the sound will be great.

Here's some of his work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyFuZuleVc4

Yup, only ROF team can make modern flight sim now. I play ROF, maybe longer than you... But who cares? You waited for 7 years to have same ugly sound like in first IL2 from 2001? If they would not screwed it up with some accidental change hidden in "patch", they would never ever hire this guy to help them from the deep hole they are in.

But... wait a minute? Why there were any problems with sounds, ha? After all these mods (not possible by IL2 engine as Mighty Oleg said)? Why there were just old ugly, ear-tearing sounds? What about U-boat creeping under hight Gs? WTF? Everything forgiven and forgotten?

You know, some people here still have some memory and they have full right to express their sickness with such "product"... Just accept it. It was not the customers who raised the expectation to the moon. But why to discuss what was discussed so many time over and over, then deleted, people got banned?

The latest insult is to release it without patch to the "new" customers which are waiting four more months for it and they will still get just broken and ugly game.

OK, I am reporting myself to mods now...

[carguy_]

So I see their real plan - just to sell it in US to the rest of their customer base, which trusted them to provide the patch for the most obvious bugs in this "game". Trust was again broken. Not for the first time, but believe me, nobody cares, because payment transaction is done, and you'll never see your money back. And you have to be patient, as a member of IL2 community, and don't ask unpleasant question. And beware to demand anything!!

You can say that trust was broken once the support of this some is discontinued. As of today, the support is here, the bugs are being worked on.. What you`re stating is obviously a lie since your posts contradict the obvious. You have demanded many things and have been listened to. Now you have to give them some time to fix it. Rest assured it will be fixed.


They will give you IL2 sturmovik after couple of months, with some bugs corrections, but the engine will be same, there will be still missing any reasonable content. They are following same model as with old IL2... selling addons or "patches"...
Wrong. The patches/updates have always been free for download. And as this is a very complicated simulation game, there are many things to be featured in such a game. The content "holes" are unavoidable.


Get it or leave. This is their message. I left. I am here just to observe and learn how such marketing strategy is complete failure.
If you`d be so kind, since you left. Also please refrain from posting worthless moaning like above. It is good for your mental health. Thanks in advance.

[Doc_uk]

http://rlv.zcache.com/brown_nose_tshirt-p235237666902091023q6lb_400.jpgLol, I love these forums :)

[Tvrdi]

@Bliss - ofcourse I tried with reinstalling the CLOD and Steam completely but nothing changed...deleted both versions from my HDD and installation target wasnt /program files.
But I will try to tweak some other stuff, so we will see.
My rig is: i7920@OC 3.5Ghz (HT OFF), GTX 470 Twin frozr2 (OC 800mhz on core, which will be a bit better than stock 480), 6GB of RAM working on app. 1333Mhz, WD C.Black,32MBc., X-FI ex. gamer, Dell 2209wa (IPS, 1680x1050, low input lag), Win 7 Ultimate 64. For defrag Im using Mydefrag and for tweaking wins - Yamicsoft Win7 manager.

[carguy_]

@Bliss - I want this sim to succeed...I mean I wouldnt be so frustrated (because of bad performance on my modern rig) that I dont care. I would just trash it. But everything I tried (with all my HW and SW knowledge and years of experience with tweaking wins and games) didnt help. Im still having a bad performance. Its a bit better with textures set to med but then the game is much uglier. And still Im loosing sound online; trees are not there in fact. FM is great (DM better than in ROF) but I dont like how the game looks (except cockpits which are great looking). It looks like a vivid cartoon. And there are occasional stutters too. Builidings and trees are causing problems fps wise. So more or less its unplayable for me in current state. Thats where my frustration comes from.
It is good that you finally listed what you don`t like. That`s about the most constructive post in a while made by you. And guess what - besides the sound bug and bad performance on the most modern PCs, a lot of people play this game flawlessly. I suggest you take this into account. I`m sorry that your PC has problems running CloD, but you`re not the only customer in this world.


I really hope one day this sim will be optimised and with improved sounds and landscape, with working trees (not the ghost trees we have now). I cant call this a serious top sim with ghost trees and bad/not working sounds. I know the sim market is small, and small teams are working on top sims. But this is not a finished product, in fact it wasnt even a beta when it was released (IMHO). Thats not a way your getting new/old customers BACK. Thats a worst "marketing".
Hope things will look better in the future.
Yes, you and lots of other folks have been posting the very same message in months. Since you understand that the team making this sim is not EA/Rockstar/Valve, please wait for the fixes as they will surely come.

[Opitz]

carguy_ if they hire ROF terrain guy, ROF physics guy, ROF user interface guy, and, omg, the offline campaign ROF guy, it will be MAYBE good yet...

[carguy_]

Man, some people needs to be manipulated, but that's not my case. You can count now on your fingers how many people here are unconditionally happy with the status of this game, and more with the way Luthier is dealing with them -his real and only customers-. This is just an insult in any culture to the West from Russia borders...
Yeah! Them Russian pinko red commies dare to make a video game! PFFFFFT!

[ATAG_Bliss]

Furbs,

The only difference between these 2 pics is one has all default global nvidia configs, the other has AA/AF both overridden and at max, along with all other NCP settings turned on max for quality.

Edit: fixed

No AA
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1055/noaa.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/noaa.png/)

With AA

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/1659/withaa.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/withaa.jpg/)

[furbs]

Il have a look Bliss cheers.

[ATAG_Bliss]

fixed it!

[furbs]

heres 4 pics i just took Bliss...

one is set to FSAA in game to off and gobal settings to min...

one is set to FSAA in game to off and gobal setting to max...

one is set to FSAA in game to x8 and gobal settings to "application controled"

one is set to FSAA in game to x8 and gobal setting to max

i cant tell any difference between any of them...

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/8632/launcher201107201259499.jpg
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2011-07-20

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3374/launcher201107201259127.jpg
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2011-07-20

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9027/launcher201107201257043.jpg
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2011-07-20

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2598/launcher201107201256161.jpg
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2011-07-20

[Vittuuntunut]

New people are always welcome.



You don`t care about this game at all. Yet you somehow continue to roam these forums and complain. I suggest you leave rightaway.
The devs are supporting CloD and will continue to do so.




New people are always welcome! *profanities*
To what? "Please be cheated!"

Is it impossible for you fanboy-lot to understand that most of pissed off people are so pissed because they paid more than just 50 € to play this game? They built monster-rigs and still can´t get game to work in the way that it is even remotely satisfying.

Oh yeah, I forgot that there are thousands of people that fly over london, fighting intense dogfights, all maxed out with 200+ FPS! I forgot that it´s your ûbermagic-rig that sets the standards for who is allowed to complain and who isn´t.

As you can clearly see there are manymanymany people who are very displeased about the games performace. What makes you think that they are all trolls who don´t own the game or don´t care about it? Is it because the game works for you?

I think it´s close to criminal to sell this broken game twice. To "welcome" new people to this "stfu, your rig just sucks!" / "it will be fixed!" mess. Even though this game works for some, there still are too many people suffering from poor performance.

I think this constant stream of "whinig" should really be here and stand as a warning. You shouldn´t be able to sell the crap and get away with it

Let alone do it twice!

Is this really so hard for you to understand Carguy?

[Kankkis]

i don't know Nvidia but i have ATI and there is very small difference with AA OFF or 2x, AA is working with 2x at very close range, when you zoom farther, terrible jaggies again. There is no difference on 2x and 8x, even no difference at FPS, with 2x same FPS than 8x

[carguy_]

New people are always welcome! *profanities*
To what? "Please be cheated!"
That is simply not true. If this game came out as is, with support discountinued, then you would be right. The support however stands and continues.


Is it impossible for you fanboy-lot to understand that most of pissed off people are so pissed because they paid more than just 50 € to play this game? They built monster-rigs and still can´t get game to work in the way that it is even remotely satisfying.
Do you even realise that pinning a fanboy label on me only shows that you can`t put up with my posts? It`s the easiest way, but rarely effective.

I have explained, along with other patient people that it`s not much money. A date costs roughly as much. The cost of whatever PC you built to run this game doesn`t concern any of us at all. You didn`t check how the game runs, you didn`t gather any information. You built a 2000€ rig and are pissed. You`re pissed at yourself and you need to find someone, anyone, that you think is responsible to make you feel better. Not the way to go. Keep your anger to yourself.


Oh yeah, I forgot that there are thousands of people that fly over london, fighting intense dogfights, all maxed out with 200+ FPS! I forgot that it´s your ûbermagic-rig that sets the standards for who is allowed to complain and who isn´t.

Oh, so you DO understand some of the stuff that`s being posted by those who acutally try to HELP others. No 200fps here but given the modest rig that I have setting a few switches lower helped. All still with visual quality unsurpassed by anything else on the market. I also bought this game for multiplayer and I can`t fly online, but I know all this will come. In the meantime I play other games, and mostly LIVE to do other , more important things in life. For example today in the morning I traveled 50 miles to hospital to take my cousin who had a surgery knee operation, went back , set him up in his house and here I am writing at the forums. He won`t be able to play basketball no more.
You seem to have only the PC in your life. That is not good, you should change it. Maybe do something for other people for a change.


As you can clearly see there are manymanymany people who are very displeased about the games performace. What makes you think that they are all trolls who don´t own the game or don´t care about it? Is it because the game works for you?
Many? I see less than 10 people spamming these boards with mindless bickering/ They do NOTHING constructive. Actually I don`t think most of them are trolls. Maybe Tree_UK who`s clearly bent on killing this game before it gets fixed. Others? "No-lifers" who act like 12 year old brats mad over their NES not working.


I think it´s close to criminal to sell this broken game twice. To "welcome" new people to this "stfu, your rig just sucks!" / "it will be fixed!" mess. Even though this game works for some, there still are too many people suffering from poor performance.

Excellent. You have come to use the word criminal to describe the bahaviour. Really? Then maybe you should go to whatever customer right department you have in your country and report it. I`m sure they will listen.
.....or maybe they will laugh their a$$e$ off.


I think this constant stream of "whinig" should really be here and stand as a warning. You shouldn´t be able to sell the crap and get away with it

Let alone do it twice!

Is this really so hard for you to understand Carguy?

You can do this in a polite way. Really you can. You don`t have to post false information, you don`t have to swear, you don`t have to attack those who are satisfied with this game. And nobody will ban you for it.
Is that so hard to understand?

[ATAG_Doc]

Luthier thank you for all your hard work. We know your team will is working hard to make this a successful venture.

[Tvrdi]

It is good that you finally listed what you don`t like. That`s about the most constructive post in a while made by you. And guess what - besides the sound bug and bad performance on the most modern PCs, a lot of people play this game flawlessly. I suggest you take this into account. I`m sorry that your PC has problems running CloD, but you`re not the only customer in this world.

a lot of ppl play this game flawlessly?? Thats not true. Its other way around. We can make a poll about it. Sure you can type whataver claim you want. What suits you.


.... the team making this sim is not EA/Rockstar/Valve, please wait for the fixes as they will surely come.
That doesnt mean they can release a sim in an alpha stage and charge me for 50 bucks! I mean they can and they did but thats a bad marketing. For FUTURE PROJECTS.
I will wait....what else I can do?

PS: When will your "Im a diehard fanboy furiously defending this sim" crusade end?

[RocketDog]

That is simply not true. If this game came out as is, with support discountinued, then you would be right. The support however stands and continues.

Is this true? One of the worst things about CloD is the terrible daytime landscapes that just don't look anything like the real South of England (and I live there and I fly over it in gliders so I know what it should look like in daytime). The colours in CloD are just wrong. Yet there is no indication that the devs even recognise there is a problem to solve.

Maybe I've missed a post somewhere? If not, it looks like they are proposing to dump their fanatasy cartoon version of England on us and just walk away.

[carguy_]

a lot of ppl play this game flawlessly?? Thats not true. Its other way around. We can make a poll about it. Sure you can type whataver claim you want. What suits you.
And how is your claim better supported than mine? Go ahead and make another poll for the whiners to jump in. If this will satisfy you:rolleyes:


That doesnt mean they can release a sim in an alpha stage and charge me for 50 bucks!
I will wait....what else I can do?
Every possible user source before the release told us that the game is in alpha stage. Special thanks to the Russian version western users who told us. I suggest you check something before you buy. Fewer shattered nerves this way. But if you don`t bother to do this for a 50$ game, than why are you complaining now?

[carguy_]

Is this true? One of the worst things about CloD is the terrible daytime landscapes that just don't look anything like the real South of England (and I live there and I fly over it in gliders so I know what it should look like in daytime). The colours in CloD are just wrong. Yet there is no indication that the devs even recognise there is a problem to solve.
Thank you for giving me something to answer to. I wouldn`t call the landscape exactly terrible. I voted in the poll that it needs improvements because I trust in what Englishmen are saying. I`m sure the problem is recognized, mostly because in last patch we got the change of colors in readme listed. If it`s still too bad for you then I`d wait. There are other problems which need to be fixed first.
But surely, this doesn`t stop or even diminish my fun with this game to be honest.

[carguy_]

PS: When will your "Im a diehard fanboy furiously defending this sim" crusade end?
Seriosly, Tvrdi man, I`ve seen you fly a number of times. You`re a great virtual pilot. Posting this only makes you look bad. My interest in posting is not about you or other moaners. It`s about correcting all the false information you post daily. That is why I said you should ignore me, because I don`t give two ##### about what you post about me. Your posts must be visible for me so I can correct you for others (only viewing forum members and potential sim buyers) to see.

But to answer the question : I will quit once I see this game really isn`t going anywhere and won`t become a masterpiece like IL2. That day I will stop posting and forget this forum. An attitude many of you lack.

[Tvrdi]

Seriosly, Tvrdi man, I`ve seen you fly a number of times. You`re a great virtual pilot. Posting this only makes you look bad. My interest in posting is not about you or other moaners. It`s about correcting all the false information you post daily. That is why I said you should ignore me, because I don`t give two ##### about what you post about me. Your posts must be visible for me so I can correct you for others (only viewing forum members and potential sim buyers) to see.

But to answer the question : I will quit once I see this game really isn`t going anywhere and won`t become a masterpiece like IL2. That day I will stop posting and forget this forum. An attitude many of you lack.

oh then, your so noble...working for a great cause...thank you!

[Ze-Jamz]

Hilarious

[Ataros]

Funboys improve sales and encourage the devs.

Whiners reduce sales and discourage the devs.

Quite simple.

[Opitz]

Funboys improve sales and encourage the devs.

Whiners reduce sales and discourage the devs.

Quite simple.

Customers make their choice with their money....

[carguy_]

Customers make their choice with their money....
That`s the smartest, most clever thing you`ve written here since a while.

You do know the responsibility that comes with the value of choice, do you?

[Opitz]

We are reaching new philosophical frontiers here... but let's get back down to the Earth... What about to start doing what customers want?

[Tvrdi]

Funboys improve sales and encourage the devs.

Whiners reduce sales and discourage the devs.

Quite simple.

The question is who is who? Im a fanboy but not hypnotised die hard fan. I can (with my experience) report and discover some things which can help devs. (and I did). But I have a right to say whats wrong. Maybe some hypnotised die hard fanboy will only "defend" this sim on forums. So who contributed more?

Customers make their choice with their money....

True. BUT. This sim was advertised as finished product with all the pics and videos misleading whats inside the box. One would assume they get rid of main bugs through beta testing and core testing. No, Im not talking about usual stuff (bugs) which could be fixed via patches in few weeks, but MAIN PROBS (sound, ghost trees, performance ON MODERN RIGS, epilepsy filters, working GUI on release etc etc) for which they will NEED MONTHS (as Luthier stated) to fix. Luthier personaly told us we will get NEW external engine sounds (for example) and we got old IL2 farting sounds which even not working online after some time. Also no mention of anti epilepsy crap and so on...some things which was included in promo previews never reached released version of the game...we can go forever...
tbh It would be fair from them to accept returns for guys who want they money back. Why not if sims sells well and if everything is OK? Tell me, why not?!
I wanted to sell my copy and nobody asked.....that tells you alot...and now it goes for 10-15 bucks....and it was 50 bucks at release. Thats a spit in to the eyes of the most faithful customers...and you call us whiners...game is working fine for you? Great! Now, come to our side of the fence....

[JG52Krupi]

Your a fanboy... No tvrdi your not..

"the landscape is a vivid nuclear green and is crap"

That's not a fanboy statement just a whinge.

[carguy_]

your a fanboy... No tvrdi your not..

"the landscape is a vivid nuclear green and is crap"

that's not a fanboy statement just a whinge.
lol

[Ze-Jamz]

Your a fanboy... No tvrdi your not..

"the landscape is a vivid nuclear green and is crap"

That's not a fanboy statement just a whinge.

whinge,Statement or fact?

How do you conclude that to be a whinge?

[Vittuuntunut]

... I also bought this game for multiplayer and I can`t fly online, but I know all this will come. In the meantime I play other games, and mostly LIVE to do other , more important things in life. For example today in the morning I traveled 50 miles to hospital to take my cousin who had a surgery knee operation, went back , set him up in his house and here I am writing at the forums. He won`t be able to play basketball no more.
You seem to have only the PC in your life. That is not good, you should change it. Maybe do something for other people for a change.



Oh, please! Of course there are more important things in life and much worse things can happend than ending up buying a bad videogame (and sorry ´bout your cousin). That is self-explanatory.

BUT, when I want to discuss or do something about, for example, the third world poverty & hunger, I do it elsewhere. If I want to discuss the lack of human rights somewhere, I go to Amnesty-forums. If I on the other hand want to discuss about the bad product I bought and possibly warn others not to make same mistake, I come here. SINCE I BOUGHT THIS GAME AND EXPECTED IT TO BE EVEN REASONABLY GOOD OR REASONALBLY QUICKLY PATCHABLE!

This forums is for this game, it´s pros and cons. So far the cons seem to outnumber the pros for many, and for many (like me) , patches seem to do little good. AND what is most important, the marketing "strategy" of 1C is laughable and should not be tolerated.

[furbs]

Your a fanboy... No tvrdi your not..

"the landscape is a vivid nuclear green and is crap"

That's not a fanboy statement just a whinge.


But true, esp with no trees.

[carguy_]

Oh, please! Of course there are more important things in life and much worse things can happend than ending up buying a bad videogame (and sorry ´bout your cousin). That is self-explanatory.

You are beginning to understand. My time here is rewarded more than I wanted to then.


BUT, when I want to discuss or do something about, for example, the third world poverty & hunger, I do it elsewhere. If I want to discuss the lack of human rights somewhere, I go to Amnesty-forums. If I on the other hand want to discuss about the bad product I bought and possibly warn others not to make same mistake, I come here. SINCE I BOUGHT THIS GAME AND EXPECTED IT TO BE EVEN REASONABLY GOOD OR REASONALBLY QUICKLY PATCHABLE!

Be sure to check out the Ubisoft CloD forums then. That`s the place to talk about it unless you are in Russia.
Here`s the link :
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/8071032709 .

This forum comes with the offtopic section

aaaaaaaand guess what?

Carguy_ is banned there!:eek:


This forums is for this game, it´s pros and cons. So far the cons seem to outnumber the pros for many, and for many (like me) , patches seem to do little good. AND what is most important, the marketing "strategy" of 1C is laughable and should not be tolerated.
The problem is that you tend to impose, even force your own views. Sadly this comes with posting false information about the game. That is wrong and should be corrected for the buyers`s sake.

[Ze-Jamz]

haha Furbs is here:

http://www.lowbudgetprosper.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/popcorn.jpg

Anyone?

[Tvrdi]

Your a fanboy... No tvrdi your not..

"the landscape is a vivid nuclear green and is crap"

That's not a fanboy statement just a whinge.

thats a fact mate....call me as you like...fact is still a fact

PS: Read my edited post on previous page

we will see what will be in a year from now on....how this will be playable and how many players will be online...

[JG52Krupi]

thats a fact mate....call me as you like...fact is still a fact

PS: Read my edited post on previous page

The only fact I see is that your in desperate need of an opticians

[Opitz]

thats a fact mate....call me as you like...fact is still a fact

PS: Read my edited post on previous page

we will see what will be in a year from now on....how this will be playable and how many players will be online...

fact is truth and truth must be banned or at least controlled - it is too dangerous...

[Tvrdi]

The only fact I see is that your in desperate need if an opticians


then I need to change my profession...and our english friends are liars...LOL

[Ze-Jamz]

You are beginning to understand. My time here is rewarded more than I wanted to then.



Be sure to check out the Ubisoft CloD forums then. That`s the place to talk about it unless you are in Russia.
Here`s the link :
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/8071032709 .

This forum comes with the offtopic section

aaaaaaaand guess what?

Carguy_ is banned there!:eek:


The problem is that you tend to impose, even force your own views. Sadly this comes with posting false information about the game. That is wrong and should be corrected for the buyers`s sake.

Carguy..your banned there? No! :cool:

Anyway...

I wouldnt say not getting an update is posting false information about a game which would hinder sales...I would of thought alot of the US buyers have been following these forums for quite some time, i would also think that they have there own thoughts in regards to communication given this isnt just a game that needs a patch..i think we can safely say that and that Us..me n You have been tolerant and will continue to do so..

I would put quite a large some of money down on the lack of promises kept which one of them were only made clear today (community officer) after it was announced how long ago and the lack of communication has had an affect on sales..

I just assumed that this forum and other forums releated to this game would of had a lil read me with progress that the last time we heard anything was 2 weeks ago and that was 'thin' to say the least

[carguy_]

thats a fact mate....call me as you like...fact is still a fact

Please refer to my last paragraph in post #91.


we will see what will be in a year from now on....how this will be playable and how many players will be online...
That`s exactly what I mean. Regardless what we post, if this sim continues to be in current shape or close to it in a year, there won`t be any of us here posting.

[carguy_]

Carguy..your banned there? No! :cool:


Oh but yes! Courtesy of Freycinet.


I wouldnt say not getting an update is posting false information about a game which would hinder sales...I would of thought alot of the US buyers have been following these forums for quite some time, i would also think that they have there own thoughts in regards to communication given this isnt just a game that needs a patch..i think we can safely say that and that Us..me n You have been tolerant and will continue to do so..

Yes, that is the point I`m making. You see I`m not trying to impose my vision of this game as it is. It is clear now that I`m exceptionally satisfied with the game, given the general user response. Yet I do not post daily that the landscape is lovely, the game runs with no stutters whatsoever or that the mp sound bug is non existant. On thiso forum the view must be faced by opposite view so the potential buyer (checking what he wants to buy unlike many ppl here) can make his own mind up about whether he wants to risk it or not. Because yes, in order to enjoy this game n its current state you have to work with your PC a little (my game configuration time alone is almost 4 hours) and see the good sides of it.
Always when one`s seeking information on a subject, he has to view the two sides of the coin to see the real picture. This is what I`m standing by.

[Ze-Jamz]

Oh but yes! Courtesy of Freycinet.


Yes, that is the point I`m making. You see I`m not trying to impose my vision of this game as it is. It is clear now that I`m exceptionally satisfied with the game, given the general user response. Yet I do not post daily that the landscape is lovely, the game runs with no stutters whatsoever or that the mp sound bug is non existant. On thiso forum the view must be faced by opposite view so the potential buyer (checking what he wants to buy unlike many ppl here) can make his own mind up about whether he wants to risk it or not. Because yes, in order to enjoy this game n its current state you have to work with your PC a little (my game configuration time alone is almost 4 hours) and see the good sides of it.
Always when one`s seeking information on a subject, he has to view the two sides of the coin to see the real picture. This is what I`m standing by.

Agreed..though personally for me its news updates, and that to me sells games, especially this one in the current form its in...no of course they dont have too i just thought you would want too... and as you say especially because you hear about the bad stuff but no so much the good stuff...

Then you could go back and say, if those updates were there you woudnt have such a negativity about the place (yes 'some' would still be here) and people becoming worried/angry etc etc which then leads to the likes of you and I defending the game in whatever way we see fit which then turns this forum into a troll/slag fest whiners,moaners whatever label people want to use instead of the forums of old (some) where it was a friendly community which was in place to help each other

[6S.Manu]

Funboys improve sales and encourage the devs.

Whiners reduce sales and discourage the devs.

Quite simple.

Fanboys can't really judge a product, while whiners do it harshly: you know that without critics a product can't improve (damn... there were tools enjoying the sound engine!).

It's not whiners' fault if the the sales are not improving: it's the develpers' fault. Luckly Ubi is not really vocal about this game... at least they are honest; can you really deceive the customers selling them an unfinished application? I can't...

I repeat again: almost all the guys in my squad bought the game the day it was released in Europe. We had faith and defended it, we have talked about it to our friends because we believed Luthier's words (far more than Oleg's ones)... anyway in the last months we ALL lost our patience (even Insuber who was the most loyal... still I can't understand how he can "fly" online...)

The whiners can be hushed only by telling them the truth! I had no problem to support the team with my money once or twice. But I need to be assured by the developer that they are working in the right way...

Sadly nothing seems to right this way... starting the development of a new theatre is not that I would to hear until the engine core is ok. Blaming an anti-eplilessy filter for the bad performance was not the right way. Nor is the lack of communication/news.

Well... I gave my support but I can't really defend this game like I did before.

[addman]

Everybody who takes their time posting in this thread is clearly a fanboy. Here's my summary so far of CloD:

-Game was released unfinished (twice).
+Game has huge potential.

-Game is poorly coded (this is obvious).
+Game is getting patched, albeit a bit slower than hoped for.

-Developer doesn't interact openly and often enough.
+Luthier has given us a "roadmap" for the future of the game.

-Non existant marketing for release (except for in Russia)
+The game has actually been released!

-I'm not playing the game anymore.
+I will play it again as soon as it's up to par (this is subjective of course).

-I will never buy another 1c/MG product again if they don't fix CloD.
+I will continue to buy 1c/MG products if they fix CloD.

I see both sides of the coin and I vote with my €.;)

[WT_Schmouddle]

Well, well.

here you got a story of a 1C:customer.


I heard the superlatives as 1C was feeding its potential customers. I listened to them. When it was out, I bought it first day.

I went through setting up and found out my plain TIR3 was not supported. I ordered TIR5 from US. A first warning bell went off in my head.

I continued with setting up and on my fairly average rig (Phenom X4 3,2Ghz, 4Gigs RAM, 260OC) I got unplayable game. I was forced to play it in 800x600 window in order to keep framerates high enough. I was shocked by "quality" of sounds. I was horrified of lack of AA/AF. I was terrified by landscape ugliness on low settings. I was shred to tears having 5fps over London, 800x600x32 no AA and no AF.

Then I went to do some proper flying, in the countryside, where fps was somewhat OK. I am a sport pilot IRL and a history buff, so I know what do in WWII airplanes. Equipped with a copy of pilot's notes of Hurricane Mk.I, I spawned myself with a Hurricane, keen on trying the advertised superb clickable cockpit. Yes, I went through the switches and levers. But I was not able to fire that crate up. Not because of bad settings of mixture or whatever. I did not find the coil boost and starter buttons. I tried for 15-20mins blaming my sillyness and after that asked my mate what I am doing wrong. The answer presented with a hearthy laughter was I had to hit I for an engine to start. A second, very loud WTF warning bell started to swing in my dumbfounded head.

After that I was able to fly, wondering how easy it was (full realistic, of course), my approaches and landings were on spot. Sure. I would never accomplish anything like that in real deal. This time, no bell went off, I just accepted that is due to other player's experience issue, yes, I have very high demands on FM and not all simmers are real pilots. Mmmkay then.

Then, another mate asked on forums how to deal with his problems flying the Blenheim. He was somehow able to take off, but afer few minutes, engines went dead. I plunged into that problem, equipped with yet another pilot's notes copy. What I found was, the link between analog controller and the in-cockpit lever was reversed. That means, while the GUI lever was in full rich, the cockpit lever was in full lean, thus reversing the control input. We have been flying on full lean all the time. After that, I found out the ground handling of Blenheim in that test mission was utterly unrealistic from what I know of real flying, as it exhibited a massive tendency to swing to the side both in three and two wheel attitude, which I was only able to counter with setting less power on one engine as controls seemed to be innefective. Later I found out there was a default heavy rudder trim set, which was very effective even in slow pace in three point attitude.
Very strange linkage between the real world input and the cockpit lever, coupled with strange FM behavior on takeoff, that was a bell #3 and a last one.

And that was the end of my flying with Blenheim and the end of my flying CloD. I just quit playing it, it was not worth my precious time and effort as these could be spent more reasonably somewhere else
As I got a digital download, there was no DVD to put on back row on my shelf.

Two weeks after, my $130 TrackIR5 arrived. It was put to a very good use in Rise of Flight, shame I do not have enough time to become another Red Baron.

There was a few bucks lost (and no, it is not a cost of a single date here) and some lessons learned.
I paid a price, expecting a reasonably finished product. I got early aplha. So there is no way I ever buy any 1C:Maddox game in the future unless proved playable by people I trust.

How is it called? Loss of customer's trust towards the developer? A marketing failure?
Because as this customer was cheated, was lied to and after several months did not get the product he bought, he just don't care anymore and is very sceptical about the "support your sheriff" stuff. He knows there are many possible sheriffs out there in town. Sure there is one better then the current one, who is hastily covering his mistakes in keeping public safe and happy.


Decide for yourself.

[MadTommy]

^^

I wont buy any sim on launch date again... Rise of Flight was a disaster initially, purchased it on release day.. after several months struggling with it issues i put it aside of nearly two years.. now it's a gem, started playing again and love it now.

CloD seems to be taking a very similar path.. i suspect in 18 months it will be a lot of fun and hopefully a polished release.

The people i take my hat off to is the DCS team.. i was part of the open beta for A10-c, as a beta i accepted its flaws, there were many, there still are! But being a beta i gave them the slack as i knew what i was getting. Its a great sim now.. but if they had released the beta as the final product it would have been in the same boat as RoF & CloD. They made the right move in my book.

Basically its a sad state of affairs that consumers do not get finished products.. they get betas that need numerous patches... BUT they are still a million times better than Call of Duty and anything like that... we are a niche group, flight simmers, but we have to live off 1/2 finished products... still better than no product.

[Opitz]

^^

I wont buy any sim on launch date again... Rise of Flight was a disaster initially, purchased it on release day.. after several months struggling with it issues i put it aside of nearly two years.. now it's a gem, started playing again and love it now.

CloD seems to be taking a very similar path.. i suspect in 18 months it will be a lot of fun and hopefully a polished release.

The people i take my hat off to is the DCS team.. i was part of the open beta for A10-c, as a beta i accepted its flaws, there were many, there still are! But being a beta i gave them the slack as i knew what i was getting. Its a great sim now.. but if they had released the beta as the final product it would have been in the same boat as RoF & CloD. They made the right move in my book.

Basically its a sad state of affairs that consumers to not get finished products.. they get betas that need numerous patches... BUT they are still a million times better than Call of Duty and anything like that... we are a niche group, flight simmers, but we have to live off 1/2 finished products... still better than no product.

This is not true... It was not a disaster. Yes, everything else except flying was terrible, but - it was FUN! And all customers knew in which circumstancies they developed it and what is their goal to achieve. ROF now shows the path to the future of flight sims.
You forgeting also a development timeframe... How much time and experience was on the MG side? And what is the result? Acceptable only by fanboy with half of the brain...

[MadTommy]

The fact that i got feed up and stop playing RoF for 2 years is a testament to my opinion of it. We ran one of the 1st dedicated RoF servers.. it was a complete nightmare.

And if you are calling me a 1/2 brained fanboy, well either you have completely misunderstood my comments and or you are a no brained whiner! :P

I'm not happy with it, hence why it has put me off buying sims on release, as i want proof they work 1st. It has also put me off buying Red Orchestra 2 as it is also under 1c production.

[SYN_Repent]

Please say that ain't true tommy, ro2 is under 1c production?

[MadTommy]

Afraid so.. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/forumdisplay.php?f=156

[Blackdog_kt]

"That means that the team is growing, we are hiring, and we’re not going anywhere."

Is it some kind of threat?

Yes, it's a threat they'll do their best to fix the game, if they succeed some people will have less things to complain about and will actually have to start flying for a change. Can you imagine that, they might even start having fun! Oh the horror! :-P


Im sorry but Luthiers post *swear word* me more than before, he says he reads this forum?? and them comes on and posts that?

What have they been doing for the last 4 weeks???

Que Carguy, Blackdog, robtek and the others to now tell me "look he posted" be calm, just wait, your being silly.

you guys wait and play nice, im happy for you, i really am. but dont even reply to me cos i dont care and im not listening ok?

Me? im *swearwords* off like you wouldnt believe with that waste of internet space post.

Community member : "Say something!"

Luthier: "Ok, here's a few words. Things are on the same pace as before and results are not ready yet so i can't post anything tangible, just telling you all that we just keep working on it. We are financially secure and hiring more people to speed things up, which should also tell you we're committed for the long haul, otherwise we would just buy a dacha in the outskirts of Moscow and retire instead of spending your money on more programmers."

Community member: "I don't like your words because there's nothing tangible, i didn't just want some words i wanted to hear very specific things and now i'm a sad bunny, even though i initially said i just wanted a bit of reassurance and never mentioned the conditionals lurking in the back of my mind."

You seem to not enjoy the sim, you don't enjoy the forums, you don't enjoy the content of the developer feedback and you don't want being replied to. What exactly are you doing here then? Take a break and do something else ;)




Bliss, first you shouldn't have to go all through that to get COD to run well, its badly optimized and coded.
with your hardware you shouldnt have to jump through hoops, textures set to medium with 2x 580 3gb?? !!!
that my friend takes the *beep*

So your playing online with a game that looks like this in 2011 with your kit? and your happy with this...

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/8902/launcher201107201124045.jpg
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2011-07-20

when the landscape from a good IL2 map looks like this...

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2576/landscape2.png
By furbs9999 (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/furbs9999) at 2011-01-24

For the umpteenth time, we're not referring to the "shoulda, coulda, woulda" speculation. The game is what the game is, there is a way to get better performance and it costs some eye candy.

The fixation some people display on eye candy is preventing them from getting acceptable performance, which in turn is preventing them from playing the game and that in turn is preventing them from seeing what does work in the game.

And the stuff that works is downright brilliant in the way it's structured even though if might not be 100% correct yet: i'd rather have an engine that can simulate flutter effects and improved CEM while putting a thousand aircraft on the air at the cost of initially inaccurate FMs that will be tweaked over time and slideshow FPS when that many aircraft are present, than have an engine that only runs well because it's strictly and severely limited to getting acceptable performance at the cost of everything else.

Your mileage may vary and you're free to disagree, but we don't all share your opinion and priorities so your views will be challenged and not taken for granted. It's the essence of discussion, you are free to either deal with it or move on and no hard feelings will be had either way.

In short, 99% of the complaints are about graphics/sounds before shelving the sim, yet the majority of the people who complain the most have almost no idea about every other feature in the sim. They wouldn't be asking the same things over and over again, things that have been answered multiple times since April, if they had actually taken the time to explore a bit on their own. Perfect example of e-laziness if you ask me.


All this is comedy gold :grin:





Folks, bear with me on this post.

Some people may have tried this game called Test Drive Unlimited 2, developed by Eden Games, published by Atari. It's for all systems. I bought it on the Xbox 360.
Briefly, it is a sequel to a free roaming racing game of the same name released a while ago. The first game was pretty solid with no real issues.

This sequel was probably more buggy than Clod was when released. Keep in mind this game was partly developed for static hardware. (Consoles.)

After 10 hours of playing this game, my saved game was completely wiped out. Gone. Apparently it was a known problem, but it still happened to me and thousands of others.
There was so much slowdown that if I wasn't leading the race, it was almost unplayable. I'm talking maybe 10-15 fps, tops. There was slowdown even when I was driving around on my own.
The GPS in the game was so buggy that it forgot to track my mileage, and if I went off course I was put back MILES from where I went off, and the car handling?
Well, the Golf Gti and The Audi R8 were undriveable. It's like they had trolley wheels at the back.
Not only that, but they hacked out a lot of the cars and all the bikes that were in the original game.
There were other issues that I won't go into, but my point is that this was a pretty simple arcade racing game developed for static hardware, and it was absolutely ripe with bugs.
The complexities of developing a complicated flight sim for PC versus relatively simple arcade racers developed for static hardware don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath really.

Anyone played Medieval Total War for PC? The game could not even be completed without a huge patch that followed later. Slowdown on even the fastest systems (I was getting 5 fps in some parts at the time) and a myriad of other really significant bugs which made the game a real chore to play at first. (It did blossom later, after a few patches.)

People act like bugs or early releases are something new. Well, they're not. And thanks to the era of digital downloads, you can expect more and more games being released early and full of bugs, patches to follow.
It's just the way it is these days.

Only the biggest development houses with hundreds of employees can really release a polished (not bug free, mind you) game these days, and even then their job is made inifintely easier because the largest gaming audiences are on consoles, which haven't changed since 2005.
Last time I checked, there was no flight sim on the consoles, nor will there ever be.

I'm not saying paying customers should just put up with whatever comes their way, but a little understanding of the enormous challenges these guys who develop simulators face need to be understood.

Sorry for the ramble.

What are you talking about? 9 out of 10 people here are so fixated on the way the forest green/tracer/waves or other comparatively trivial issues (in terms of effort to fix, compared to the underlying game engine) look that the game mechanics pass over their heads with a loud "whooshing" sound :-P

I fully agree with your post, but for a bunch of so called simulation fans here the thing that matters most is that the slovakia map in IL2:1946 at max detail looks better than COD's map at low detail, the amount of calculations required for the new CEM alone be damned :grin:


This is a low blow technique and i don't like comparing "hardcore-ness" for lack of a better word, but seriously, the way things have been going lately i'm getting the feeling that for a lot of people here their interest in aviation lies mainly in looking at and listening to pretty aircraft making big explosions and they are completely averse to learning a bit more about what makes the whole machine tick in the first place. Otherwise they would have found out the extend to which things like that are modeled in the sim but no, the greens are too vivid so i'll throw my helmet and goggles out the pram, cross my hands over my chest and try to convince everyone else that they are as miserable and not having fun as i am :-P


New people are always welcome! *profanities*
To what? "Please be cheated!"

Is it impossible for you fanboy-lot to understand that most of pissed off people are so pissed because they paid more than just 50 € to play this game? They built monster-rigs and still can´t get game to work in the way that it is even remotely satisfying.

Oh yeah, I forgot that there are thousands of people that fly over london, fighting intense dogfights, all maxed out with 200+ FPS! I forgot that it´s your ûbermagic-rig that sets the standards for who is allowed to complain and who isn´t.

As you can clearly see there are manymanymany people who are very displeased about the games performace. What makes you think that they are all trolls who don´t own the game or don´t care about it? Is it because the game works for you?

I think it´s close to criminal to sell this broken game twice. To "welcome" new people to this "stfu, your rig just sucks!" / "it will be fixed!" mess. Even though this game works for some, there still are too many people suffering from poor performance.

I think this constant stream of "whinig" should really be here and stand as a warning. You shouldn´t be able to sell the crap and get away with it

Let alone do it twice!

Is this really so hard for you to understand Carguy?

As hard as it is for you to understand that i'm running it fine on a two year old PC with only 3GB of RAM, it looks good and flies smooth and i didn't even have to spent money on a new PC, so don't try and make it look like you represent everyone in the community because it works well for many of us :-P





oh then, your so noble...working for a great cause...thank you!

Dude, give it a rest. You were a raging RoF supporter before it was released, then they did something that you didn't like and started dissing it in a way similar to the one you display here, now that it's fixed you love it again and use it as a comparison to diss CoD. Through all this and despite all your self-professed experience in beta testing and HW/SW tweaking, you didn't manage to learn the single most important thing that RoF could teach you: that a game with a severely limited engine and a business model that's not exactly suited to flight sims can still survive a rough start and succeed despite it's small audience, as long as the fans support it, the developers keep working on it and we all give it some time.

You're just bending in the wind like a tree branch and venting out loud until you get what you want, that's all. Don't make me go to simHQ and dig up the relevant quotes from way back in May-June 2009.

For a guy with so much PC experience you display an enormous lack of judgement. Otherwise you wouldn't have bought a game that everyone (including yourself) knew is full of bugs just to shatter your nerves. Unless you enjoy it in which case i'm not the one to judge. I don't discriminate against masochists as long as they keep their whips (and their self-inflicted anguish over a video game) to themselves, just don't try to tell me i should share your opinion because i flat out don't.

You're free to have your opinion and i'm free to have a different one, trying to make it look like you guys are representing the entire community will only make the ones you don't represent react even more against you. Your group are just the front page of the forum, there are other people spending time with the sim , getting to know the available tools and making useful contributions in the sub-forums that are a whole different group altogether.

And you depend on them to improve your gameplay experience ;)





Yes, that is the point I`m making. You see I`m not trying to impose my vision of this game as it is. It is clear now that I`m exceptionally satisfied with the game, given the general user response. Yet I do not post daily that the landscape is lovely, the game runs with no stutters whatsoever or that the mp sound bug is non existant. On thiso forum the view must be faced by opposite view so the potential buyer (checking what he wants to buy unlike many ppl here) can make his own mind up about whether he wants to risk it or not. Because yes, in order to enjoy this game n its current state you have to work with your PC a little (my game configuration time alone is almost 4 hours) and see the good sides of it.
Always when one`s seeking information on a subject, he has to view the two sides of the coin to see the real picture. This is what I`m standing by.

Good post this one. There's a dozen things i'd like to see changed or improved that i consider much more important than antialiasing or SLI, but i didn't go about making a mess of the AA and SLI threads suggesting that my preferred fixes take place first.

It's this attitude of "i want this fixed, i want to know everything along the way and i want it to be first in line" displayed by some that's been getting to me lately.

I have a long list of fixes that are much easier to do for the devs as well, maybe i should start derailing every thread i see about sound and graphics to get my own way like some do, the spoiled brat way :rolleyes:



^^

I wont buy any sim on launch date again... Rise of Flight was a disaster initially, purchased it on release day.. after several months struggling with it issues i put it aside of nearly two years.. now it's a gem, started playing again and love it now.

CloD seems to be taking a very similar path.. i suspect in 18 months it will be a lot of fun and hopefully a polished release.

The people i take my hat off to is the DCS team.. i was part of the open beta for A10-c, as a beta i accepted its flaws, there were many, there still are! But being a beta i gave them the slack as i knew what i was getting. Its a great sim now.. but if they had released the beta as the final product it would have been in the same boat as RoF & CloD. They made the right move in my book.

Basically its a sad state of affairs that consumers do not get finished products.. they get betas that need numerous patches... BUT they are still a million times better than Call of Duty and anything like that... we are a niche group, flight simmers, but we have to live off 1/2 finished products... still better than no product.

That's a reasonable post as well. People have choices:

1) Buy at launch on a leap of faith and deal with the teething problems. Either enjoy it, bug report it or shut up about it and do something else for a while so the rest can do the bug hunting and community improvements in peace.

2) Wait for reviews, word of mouth and official ones. Make an informed decision and save yourself some trouble.

3) Buy at launch despite being short-tempered, don't enjoy it, complain repetitively in a way that's not useful to the developers and annoying to other players and make a fool of oneself.



Long story short, the broken record approach has been so overdone that everyone is desensitized and antagonistic to it by this point: the developers ignore it and the rest of the community openly confronts it out of sheer boredom caused by its repetitiveness.

I harbor no ill-will against any of you and i don't care to engage in personal attacks, but i think i'll start challenging you lot a bit more frequently from now on because i'm bored of your shenanigans and your tendency to drown out every meaningful bit of discussion by side-tracking every single thread to your personal pet peeves with the sim.

No hard feelings, just my opinion and i'm entitled to have one just like anybody else. Some of you guys just bore me to tears and disrupt the flow of discussions i like, so i'll see if i can do something to change it. That's all, nothing personal, i'm just out to preserve my personal fun factor as a member of the community whom your over-generalizations don't represent. Have a nice day ;)

[furbs]

No offense Blackdog, but can you sum up as i have to go to work tomorrow... :)

[Pudfark]

No offense Blackdog, but can you sum up as i have to go to work tomorrow... :)

Here comes "driveby"....:-P

[carguy_]

There was a few bucks lost (and no, it is not a cost of a single date here) and some lessons learned.
I paid a price, expecting a reasonably finished product. I got early aplha. So there is no way I ever buy any 1C:Maddox game in the future unless proved playable by people I trust.

How is it called? Loss of customer's trust towards the developer? A marketing failure?
Because as this customer was cheated, was lied to and after several months did not get the product he bought, he just don't care anymore and is very sceptical about the "support your sheriff" stuff. He knows there are many possible sheriffs out there in town. Sure there is one better then the current one, who is hastily covering his mistakes in keeping public safe and happy.


Decide for yourself.
Fair enough. Good example of an opinion.
No troll raging.
No "I hate you Oleg!".

This is his experience. Read the satisfied posts and make your mind up and go ahead and decide.

[carguy_]

I see both sides of the coin and I vote with my €.;)
You probably won`t buy any expansion 1C puts up in the future too. That`s the main punishment right there.

[carguy_]

Fanboys can't really judge a product, while whiners do it harshly: you know that without critics a product can't improve (damn... there were tools enjoying the sound engine!).

Moaners don`t criticize the product. They intend on killing it before it has a chance to blossom.


It's not whiners' fault if the the sales are not improving: it's the develpers' fault. Luckly Ubi is not really vocal about this game... at least they are honest; can you really deceive the customers selling them an unfinished application? I can't...

Funny. I`ve seen a good number of AAA titles that deceived their customers too. Hardly any game today comes out finished.


I repeat again: almost all the guys in my squad bought the game the day it was released in Europe. We had faith and defended it, we have talked about it to our friends because we believed Luthier's words (far more than Oleg's ones)... anyway in the last months we ALL lost our patience (even Insuber who was the most loyal... still I can't understand how he can "fly" online...)

Really? How in the heaven`s did you manage to stay with IL2 then?
Oh wait, you prolly bought it in 2005.


The whiners can be hushed only by telling them the truth! I had no problem to support the team with my money once or twice. But I need to be assured by the developer that they are working in the right way...

The whiners won`t shut up. We`ve had a number of their "ultimatums" fulfilled by 1C, yet, they keep on barking.


Sadly nothing seems to right this way... starting the development of a new theatre is not that I would to hear until the engine core is ok. Blaming an anti-eplilessy filter for the bad performance was not the right way. Nor is the lack of communication/news.

Sorry to hear this. If you describe numerous updates long over the industry`s average and three patches, freebies and incoming releases of another such content "nothing" then I rest my case.

[Pudfark]

They could have marketed COD in this manner?

"COD an investment for the future"

They didn't.

Instead?

"Here now, ready to rock and roll"

No music.

The fix?
Communication and patching from the "devs",
not from anybody else.
Credibility must be restored.

Nobody here wants 1C or COD to fail.
Fail it will, without the "fix".

[Rattlehead]

^^

I wont buy any sim on launch date again....

I had Clod on pre-order, knowing full well what was in store, judging by the howls of dismay here when the game was released. Call me a masochist if you want. :-P
The way I see it, the sim market needs the support and influx of cash on launch day/week. Given the choice, I would do the same again.

That doesn't make me right or somehow more of a fan, don't get me wrong, but I figure things will be fixed in time (in all sims) and in the meantime I can have a bit of fun with the game too.

[Sammi79]

They could have marketed COD in this manner?

"COD an investment for the future"

They didn't.

Instead?

"Here now, ready to rock and roll"

No music.

The fix?
Communication and patching from the "devs",
not from anybody else.
Credibility must be restored.

Nobody here wants 1C or COD to fail.
Fail it will, without the "fix".

Who is responsible for marketting?

Who is responsible for communication?

So the game won't be fixed if they (developers) fix it but don't communicate? :confused: I would rather they just fix it - which is what I think they are doing. I mean, that's what they have 'communicated' to us, after all. I see no reason to doubt that.

[Pudfark]

Well.....

The solution is simple....

It's the excuses that are complex....

Respectfully intended of course. :cool:

[Ataros]

They could have marketed COD in this manner?

"COD an investment for the future"

They didn't.

They did not have this choice because of contract with UBI including NDA. And still have a contract and can not tell the full story.

[Ataros]

Well.....

The solution is simple....

It's the excuses that are complex....

Respectfully intended of course. :cool:

That's why luthier and the team are working but not talking. I do not think you want the opposite.

How UBI spends their communication budget is a different question.

[Pudfark]

That's why luthier and the team are working but not talking. I do not think you want the opposite.

How UBI spends their communication budget is a different question.

It seems folks not in the know have been making excuses/guesses about the reasons behind the lack of communication. Like many others...I just wanted what I paid for...or a reasonable explanation from the source. Common sense would suggest that with the premature release to North America, more dissident voices would be heard. They have been and somewhere will be.

Most of us have purchased this "sim"...we have not received what we were "sold"...What we don't understand? The lack of information from Luthier.
Yes, because we bought the "sim", we do deserve an accurate concise answer from him or his designee.

I am from the U.S. and I bought this "sim" on 4-16-2011. I paid full retail. If that doesn't show support? I don't what does.

Thanks for your reply Ataros...

Note to Nearmiss: I understand what you must do to contain this forum. I just don't understand...Why Luthier won't give give you a hand.

[6S.Manu]

Moaners don`t criticize the product. They intend on killing it before it has a chance to blossom.
But who does decide if the poster is a moaner or not? If moaners are the ones who constantly spit their venom on the game again and again by single sentences then I can agree: but saying that the landscape's colors are bad, the sound engine is horrible and so on does not make a poster a whiner. It's stating facts: then everybody is entitle to their opinion but there's still a limit to one person's intelligence.

Ok let's ban the whiners but please ban also the unbelievable fanboys ("I like the sounds!" "The flames are perfect" ect... I can't stand them: at least Tree makes me smile)
Better than the ban there is the Ignore List; people should learn to use it and not the Report function that should be used only in extreme episodes. Guys who constanly report other poster should be the first to be banned.

Funny. I`ve seen a good number of AAA titles that deceived their customers too. Hardly any game today comes out finished.
Not like this one: in my experience with VGs (and it's very high... actually I have 114 games in my Steam account... and I can't count the ones without Steam support) I've never seen a game in this state: it's because of this that in the past I stated that CloD does not need fixes... it needs a good design. The typical bug to be fixed is the famous crash we have on many games, the memory leak ect... here we have optimization and important parts of the game that are not working at all. I'm not talking about the weather module or the sea: I mean the phantom trees... The collisions should be well managed in a released version. Then the UIs ect.

Really? How in the heaven`s did you manage to stay with IL2 then?
Oh wait, you prolly bought it in 2005.
Forgotten Battles. I tested the first IL2 (the demo) but I had no peripheral devices.

The whiners won`t shut up. We`ve had a number of their "ultimatums" fulfilled by 1C, yet, they keep on barking.
The board was not in this state a month ago. Am I the only one who see many more posters losing their patience? It's never been like now or probably we had the same thing against the guiltless Ubi when Ilya blamed the fake anti-epilessy filter (still I can't swallow it): so why now? Maybe it's because there are no news and the dev team seems to not look at this board when there are many patience people who would give them an hand (look at the Insuber's thread).

Sorry to hear this. If you describe numerous updates long over the industry`s average and three patches, freebies and incoming releases of another such content "nothing" then I rest my case.
You are free to rest your case: the 3 patches are needed because the game was/is unfinished, the freebies (you mean the E1?) are only premade contents (the E1 is a E4 with MG... not really a different model... a junior developer can add material in this way, probably their code differs in only one line. If one day we will get the Su26 this will not be a freebie, nor will be boats and tanks.. the released game should have them from the start looking at the updates we had in these years) and the incoming releases will not be gratis.

Look I'm not really a person who like to eat a lot of food but I like to eat good food. Few planes are enough for me... few but well made (it's still a simulator). I don't want return to the days that the freebies from 1C were full of problems since they don't look at them (Oleg's requested quality was not so high.. look at the first flyable Ju88 without armor... ).

Let me pay for every new package (as we did with IL2...) and release that damned SDK so people can improve this game. But first of all build a complete working engine. I don't care to have 10 expensive cars if there is not street around me.

[Heliocon]

I have to say but Luthier's post is almost borderline offensive in how out of touch it is. As others pointed out, saying that you are working on a expansion/next in the series when the current one is still in a beta state, while making an excuse (small team) for its state its pretty frustrating. Maybe they need to re-sort their priorities, hell at this point they should give the people here who spent $ on the game and have been playing a payed beta the expansion for FREE. What a mess (told you so, because I just have to rub it in :rolleyes:).

But I wont spend another cent on anything from them until COD is performing at the level it should, and has the amount of quality content that at minimum a game should have at release (hell this release is worse than most if not all betas I have been in!).

[FS~Phat]

What I think is sad is that things have gotten to this point that it's really hard for anyone new to see any reason to pursue or follow this new series. If new people do pick it up, its even harder to find anyone willing to help sort out some problems for fear of being branded a fanboy or being personally attacked.

The true supporters have already made their points, several times over and they have a right to be a little miffed. Some of it was constructive for a while, but I have seen almost nothing but developer bashing over the last few weeks which is not at all constructive.

The game will be fixed in time though, just like the original series, as has been explained several time now. If you don't like it, put it on the shelf for a while and go have a beer with your mates like i did.
If you really feel that bad about it, sure ask for your money back. BUT dont continually whine and complain about the same things over and over. WE GET IT. Some of you aren't happy and you just have to let the whole world know it, continuously. Guess what, its not all about you!

Just to put this into perspective though, this is a GAME, its not about a life saving miracle cure for cancer or world hunger.

12Million people are on the verge of starvation in Somalia alone as the UN has just declared another massive famine in Africa and some of you are behaving like you are the ones in a famine. Get over it. If you really are the passionate series supporters you say you are, then help to create an environment where people actually want to come for support to help get the game running well.

We all know what doesnt quite work right by now, but the game does work well enough for most now with the exception of the sound bug in MP. Almost all peoples problems can be solved if people weren't so pig headed and trying to run everything on high or above their system capability. Just drop a few settings down! If you can't get it running well enough, i feel sorry for you, but im sick of the negativity around here and hope the mods keep up the vigilance on the banning and moderation until this place is back to normal.

Im not surprised the devs backed away a little from the volatility of the forums over the past few weeks, but im also a little disappointed we didnt get some updates at least fortnightly. Being in the technology business and being exposed to business application development my self, I know not a lot can really change that much in a week any way. Fortnightly updates would probably be more realistic, with a major update with each patch.

I look forward to the long road ahead with this exceptional game and will remain a supporter as I love both the original series and the vision of the developers for this new platform and Im prepared to give them a bit of lee way for such a massive leap in realism.

[hiro]

good post FS


I think the people are getting so upset is because this release really is bad compared to il-2 original's release.

And because of the expectancy and promise of a delivery, makes alot of people get angry.

And the devs of Il-2 know how to make greatness and awesomeness but suddenly are staring in the face of fail.

People think its unnatural for the guys n gals who made Il-2 to fail at Clod. Like next morning, the sun shines but its not the usual color its a black light sun or something.

And that betrayal is whats bringing out this.



Hey Luthier!!


Good Job! You get a pat on the back!


*catches a few tomatoes for marinara before ducking the rest and jetting in the jet* W00t the good stuff, rotten tomatoes are for movies anyways

[Jatta Raso]

Funboys improve sales and encourage the devs.

Whiners reduce sales and discourage the devs.

Quite simple.

sales improvement comes from quality. even simpler.

if it has quality it will sell itself, if it hasn't, it won't, no matter how hard it's advertised; anything else is bollocks. you can't fool people into buying crap no matter how often you post it's not crap, and reverse is also true. besides, those who look for an external opinion go essentially for professional reviews and avoid this kind of bi-polarized places (fanboys vs whiners). thus i really can't see how posting affects sales.

regarding marketing, it's responsibility of publishers and developers, not of posters.

as for devs they must find encouragement on revenue and personal satisfaction upon their product, as every honest worker does.

my 2 cents

[ChrisDNT]

Who's the guy responsible for the greens ? :rolleyes:

[Blackdog_kt]

To answer Manu's question which is also shared by many, i'll try to give my interpretation of what constitutes negative and non-constructive posting.

I think it's not about the message, but the poster's attitude and the way it's delivered.
There are dozens of people pointing out inaccuracies and faults with the sim and they are not branded "whiners" or doom and gloom merchants, ever wondered why?

It's simple, they stick to a reporting style and not engage in personal attacks and speculation.
This also applies to the other camp, the so called "fanboys".

You see i'm using quote marks because i don't really accept that division. There are no "whiners" or "fanboys", there are only people who are realistic and people who detach themselves from reality on purpose (they are not stupid, they are just disappointed and aggressive to contrary opinions, so their defensive mechanisms kick into gear).

In fact, i think that both "whiners" and "fanboys" are part of this same group. Some are disappointed with the developers and the sim and the rest are disappointed with how the first group is supposedly killing their favorite game, but both groups use the same ineffective methods (half-baked, aggressive arguments and personal vitriol) to push otherwise relevant points.

This doesn't only aggravate the bystanders, it also detracts from their points because it's clear they are too lazy to come up with a coherent argument and prefer repeating one liners ad nauseum or getting into slagging matches among themselves. My question is, how does such a person expect to convince the rest of us if he can't take the time to formulate his opinion in a coherent manner that's at least appealing to read? I mean, if they won't take the time to support their own viewpoint how am i as a 3rd party expected to consider it worthy of attention?

Take the time to proof-read your posts before clicking submit (the preview button is there for a reason), try to edit out some stuff that might be getting personal, emotional or speculative and stick to giving us your experience of it all without snide remarks.

I guarantee you the amount of people who are willing to discuss things with you will rise, even though not all of them will agree. I find it much easier to respect an opinion (no matter if i agree or disagree with it) if it's at least worded in a manner that doesn't give me the mental image of a person frothing at the mouth behind a keyboard, not to mention it's easier to avoid getting dragged into similar behaviours myself ;)

[furbs]

All very well in a perfect world Blackdog, I agree with you, but this is not a perfect world. This is the INTERNET!! :grin:

So good luck with that. (though your right)

You do remind me of the guy from Southpark, "drugs are bad, mmmkk"

he was right too, but still all the kids(forum members) pay no notice.

[6S.Manu]

Blackdog, I don't write often on this forum now, but if I must then I try to do my best translating my thought in a different language (so many mistakes, shame on me!).

I agree that it's the attitude.

Anyway as Furbs writes we are still on the Internet.
You know...

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

In every social board there will always be immature guys who writes down "one sentence posts" (with or without bad words) and of course this can only split the community in the "White" and "Black" sides (the ones who stay in the "Grey" are positioned according their actual interlocutor).

In the board we still use an indirect way to communicate and we often have misunderstandings who are the reasons quarrels.

We have quarrels in my squad's board (something like 20 people now) and we're all talking italian.. I can imagine how many more misunderstanding between posters with different mother tongues.

[Blackdog_kt]

Of course, the language barrier is also a factor ;)
Anyway, i'm glad we're all coming to our senses again.

My one simple suggestion at this point is to go out and play the game, drop some settings if you must as a workaround for known issues but just go ahead and fly.

I avoided flying online because other people had told me of the sound bug and i was busy testing things offline anyway for the most part but guess what, i hadn't actually tried it for any length of time apart from a short test run a couple of patches ago.

Tonight i got on skype with a buddy i recently got back into flight sims (started him out with IL2:1946 and he then purchased CoD too) and we decided to try some multiplayer. I wasn't in the mood to start fiddling with the FMB so we just joined Syndicate to have a ready-made sandbox to fly in.

He had some trouble with his freetrack setup, i had some trouble due to running Skype on top of the sim with my limited 3GB of RAM, we had a couple of cases of spawning on the same places which resulted in our aircraft colliding, but after some experimentation (2-3 tries all in all) and taxiing a few yards away from the spawn point before the second one of us spawned, we got into the air and flew two sorties of about one hour each, maybe more.

The first one we started on 303 Polish squadron's airfield so as to be away from the furball area and have some time to get things running properly and distance to grab some altitude. It was completely hilarious, between fiddling with my compass and directional gyro and keeping tabs on the whereabouts of my less experienced buddy who was all over the sky, we ended up back-tracking twice over a meeting point before we got familiarized with our surroundings and started navigating towards Dover in a loose formation.

We encountered a couple formations of ghost contacts (dots that disappear as you close by), he ended up blowing his governor and at that time i got bounced by a 109. Not sure if he was AI but he might have been, as we descended in a left-hand spiral all the way to the deck with me evading his shots. After a while i tried to suck him into some scissors and force an overshoot, i over-controlled my Huricane and entered a spin. The result was getting a fuel leak and getting wounded. My buddy was safe on the ground by that time in Hawkinge, i landed with 1 gallon of fuel in the main tank due to the fuel leak (remembered to switch to reserve just in time) and he told me on skype to taxi next to him.

I jokingly said something about snapping souvenir photos, he said it was a good idea and i ended up getting screenshots of his nosed over Hurricane from within my cockpit. His engine had just quit a bit before touch-down and that's why his propeller blades were not all broken when he nosed over. In fact, his Hurricane was balanced on one of the prop blades itself!

Next sortie we decided to spawn in Lympne, got our bearings faster, set up a CAP circuit between Folkestone and Dover to protect friendly ships and then we saw a flight of AI Blenheims going across the channel so we decided to escort them, hoping they would draw some attention.

That's when my buddy started having trouble with keeping station again and drifting away. At some point and while dividing my attention between the bombers i was circling over to my low 4 o'clock and him wandering off to my 9 o'clock i hear him say he's being shot at. I tell him to go full power and race to his direction, as i pick up a contact behind him.

He managed to stay alive, i closed the distance and decided to spray and pray a bit to discourage his attacker, so i managed to save the guy (felt like babysitting rookies for real). At that point a Spitfire joined in and scored some hits on the 109 so i thought it best to go back north in order to regroup and grab some more altitude.

Being tail end charlie and focused on guiding my buddy back over the friendly coast (he's terrible with navigation :-P and being unfamiliar with the map makes thing complicated for me too ), the 109 which at that point had either downed or evaded the Spitfire gave me a good rake from possibly point blank rage. My screen went black in an instant and i saw the damage and pilot kill messages on the text window.

In one of the sorties (don't remember which), our airfield also got bombed as we were just starting our take off roll.

Long story short, i had so much fun that after having dinner i got back in, this time solo, picked up a 109 and set up a cap between Folkestone and Dover. Seems like most people fly low for the time being because i was trailing a contrail for an amount of time equal to half a fuel tank at economy settings up at 6-7km, along with the enemy flak bursts marking my position, but nobody was around for me to engage. After a while another 109 attacked me by mistake and damaged my pneumatic container, he told me he was sorry, i told him not to worry and to have fun and i set course for home since i was on half a tank of fuel anyway.


I got into only 3 fights, didn't get a single kill, died one time and had to RTB another one and it still was the best 3 hours of flight simming i've had the past few months. Just the sense of ambiance and sheer scale of the environment, the uncertainty and running for home flat out on a power dive from 7km amid the evening haze was enough for me.


As a side note, before spawning i set forest to very low (i already had it on low anyway), disabled music and voice in the sound options and didn't have any issue at all with the sound cutting out.

Just drop a couple of settings to ensure a stable game and go fly the planes that work, there's a good amount of fun in that while the next patches are baking in the oven, the servers are more stable (at least the one i was in) and i was surprised and pleased to see there were new people flying that don't even know how to start up their engines yet and everyone was helping them out.

Turn off your FPS counter, drop your texture detail a notch or two and give it a go, despite the remaining bugs and problems it still beats arguing with me on the forums ;)

[Heliocon]

To answer Manu's question which is also shared by many, i'll try to give my interpretation of what constitutes negative and non-constructive posting.

I think it's not about the message, but the poster's attitude and the way it's delivered.
There are dozens of people pointing out inaccuracies and faults with the sim and they are not branded "whiners" or doom and gloom merchants, ever wondered why?

It's simple, they stick to a reporting style and not engage in personal attacks and speculation.
This also applies to the other camp, the so called "fanboys".

You see i'm using quote marks because i don't really accept that division. There are no "whiners" or "fanboys", there are only people who are realistic and people who detach themselves from reality on purpose (they are not stupid, they are just disappointed and aggressive to contrary opinions, so their defensive mechanisms kick into gear).

In fact, i think that both "whiners" and "fanboys" are part of this same group. Some are disappointed with the developers and the sim and the rest are disappointed with how the first group is supposedly killing their favorite game, but both groups use the same ineffective methods (half-baked, aggressive arguments and personal vitriol) to push otherwise relevant points.

This doesn't only aggravate the bystanders, it also detracts from their points because it's clear they are too lazy to come up with a coherent argument and prefer repeating one liners ad nauseum or getting into slagging matches among themselves. My question is, how does such a person expect to convince the rest of us if he can't take the time to formulate his opinion in a coherent manner that's at least appealing to read? I mean, if they won't take the time to support their own viewpoint how am i as a 3rd party expected to consider it worthy of attention?

Take the time to proof-read your posts before clicking submit (the preview button is there for a reason), try to edit out some stuff that might be getting personal, emotional or speculative and stick to giving us your experience of it all without snide remarks.

I guarantee you the amount of people who are willing to discuss things with you will rise, even though not all of them will agree. I find it much easier to respect an opinion (no matter if i agree or disagree with it) if it's at least worded in a manner that doesn't give me the mental image of a person frothing at the mouth behind a keyboard, not to mention it's easier to avoid getting dragged into similar behaviours myself ;)

I agree with this post. But am on the side of "pissed off" because when ever I made any constructive criticism/critical comments pre release I got jumped on and nuked. Maybe some of these huge faults could or should of been seen by the development team... Its frustrating especially because the screw up has/is so bad and was avoidable. In any case I think I have earned my right to whine at this point (even though I hardly post anymore).

[Jatta Raso]

i never intended to state that CoD is crap, far from that... i just had (and maintain) such high hopes on this one...

[ATAG_Bliss]

Yup, only ROF team can make modern flight sim now. I play ROF, maybe longer than you... But who cares? You waited for 7 years to have same ugly sound like in first IL2 from 2001? If they would not screwed it up with some accidental change hidden in "patch", they would never ever hire this guy to help them from the deep hole they are in.

But... wait a minute? Why there were any problems with sounds, ha? After all these mods (not possible by IL2 engine as Mighty Oleg said)? Why there were just old ugly, ear-tearing sounds? What about U-boat creeping under hight Gs? WTF? Everything forgiven and forgotten?

You know, some people here still have some memory and they have full right to express their sickness with such "product"... Just accept it. It was not the customers who raised the expectation to the moon. But why to discuss what was discussed so many time over and over, then deleted, people got banned?

The latest insult is to release it without patch to the "new" customers which are waiting four more months for it and they will still get just broken and ugly game.

OK, I am reporting myself to mods now...

I waited 7 months in ROF just to be able to play a MP mission for longer than 10 minutes without a server crash or a master browser crash. I waited 2 years for them to fix an annoying ROF.exe error that would have you crash to desktop when an AI spawned. Now we just happily crash to desktop when a new mission loads. Still not fixed!

IL2COD is 100x the game engine ROF will ever be. The current mission I'm running has well over 200 AI and 15,000 objects in it. Go ahead and put 200 planes in a ROF mission and see if it will even load. Go ahead and put 500 objects in one see how long before it crashes the dedicated server when 40 people are playing.

ROF's potential is used up. Only a complete and utter redesign of their game engine (which they've admitted) will change that. If I wanted to make a bridge from one side of England through the English Channel to the other side of France I simply put it on the map in IL2. That's 100's of miles of bridge. Do you think the IL2 engine has any problem doing something like that? Now how about we add an invasion fleet of 300 tanks that drives over this bridge to invade England. Now how bout we put a few 1000 objects on the airfields to make them look alive. Then lets add several hundred AI bombers to go bomb the crap out of something. Then, heck, lets go ahead and even let players play on it. Guess what will happen? People will see a huge invasion fleet crossing the English Channel and go "lol @ Bliss"

The point in all of this, is the fact that you couldn't stack 50 bridges next to each other in ROF without the server having a seizure, let alone even think about having any amount of AI over the single digit category in a full ROF MP server, (and when I mean full about 46 players is all it will take before the server will crash). ROF is great for what it is. And it's an FPS plane shooter with some very good attention to detail on the planes. You exit the planes and you're left with a barren wasteland of emptyness. No amounts of coaxing through the Mission Editor will ever change that. No huge full scale representation of WWI will ever happen with ROF. There's people that have actually made complex scripts in ROF that will make a flak gun despawn unless there is an enemy plane around. In other words, this is done just to try to keep the game running.

For many people, that's just fine. For me, it's not. I get as much enjoyment from what's actually under the hood of a flight sim as to what's on the surface. And once you've made a few missions with ROF's ME and then go to IL2's FMB, you'll find ROF's editor isn't even in the same league or same planet for that matter as the FMB. There's more static objects to add life to missions like buckets and gas cans in the FMB than every single individual object in all of ROF's ME combined. Not only can I rotate any object I want, I can place then any height, I can cut away sections of the ground, deconstruct the map. I can do virtually anything I want in the FMB.
If I want to make a trench 5 feet deep and have it go across all of England I can.

Considering WWI was a huge ground war, you'd think you might have some ground objects right? Well, think again.

This is what potential is. This is what a real sim engine can do. Do you think I'm worried about a wrong prop pitch lever, a plane that doesn't perform correctly, brakes that don't work, or bad sound? Hell do you even think I'm worried about textures that don't load right? Heck no, because all of that stuff scratch the surface of what's underneath. And what's underneath is beyond amazing.

There's more going on in a JU88 cockpit than every single plane in ROF combined. And don't even get me started on the DM. Last time I checked I could still lawn dart a spad into the ground at 200mph and the plane looks like it could actually be fixed. You can't even damage a cockpit in ROF. It takes 4 bullets, yes 4 bullets to kill a pilot in ROF. It doesn't matter if you hit him point blank in the head from a stationary gunner - 4 bullets every time. You know what it takes in 10 year old IL2 and new IL2? 1 bullet to the head. ROF just only recently introduced an effect to make it look like your plane was leaking fuel or smoking. Old IL2 has had stuff like this forever. The FM is ROF is very nice. It does feel like you are actually flying, even though there are several planes that have needed a FM revision for over 2 years now.

So next time you even think about whining in here. Take it from someone who has one of the longest lasting dedicated servers on ROF and from someone who went through all the growing pains in that sim. Comparing the 2 is very laughable. One is an all around war sim. The other is, quite simply, an FPS plane sim featuring WWI planes.

And what I've talked about just breaks the surface of what's under the hood of IL2COD. I'm not even getting into the never ending moving front line dynamic online campaigns, or how you can virtually script up ANYTHING you want to have happen in a mission. And all this stuff works now, even in it's buggy unfinished state.

People have a very valid reason to complain for lots of bugs and problems. But I've been waiting for this for a very long time now, all because of what I wrote above. There's vehicle controls in options sections for a reason. This is going to be the ultimate all around on the ground and in the air sim in the future. No other sim will come close. No other sim can even do 1/2 of what this game engine can currently. Worried? Whining? Hell no. Enthusiastically waiting for the future and another patch.

But hey, maybe you can go back over to the ROF forums and tell them they should at least be able to model the different machine guns on their planes. Aren't there only like 3 or 4 guns total in WWI fighters? Yet they all have the same rate of fire and same ammo? Let me guess, maybe after 4 years after release they'll fix that as well? Nah, probably not. They have to work on making compasses or fuel gauges to sell.

Now even after all that you'd think I hate the game. Well I own every single plane and field mod. It is the most expensive sim I've ever played. But don't go and try to compare the 2 here. It's laughable. ROF plays much smoother than IL2COD, but I'd wager a guess that will soon change.

[furbs]

Good post Bliss. I hope your right about COD too. i really really do.

[Opitz]

Just because I do not want to start next flamewar about who is better - I agree that clickable cockpit is very complex in COD, but it is not all about existing, missing, bugged features only. What I am trying to say all the time is the balance - balance between simulation and game. The formula is very easy:

Fun = simulation x game

simulation is everything around - cockpit, weather, land, wind, FM, DM, radio etc.
game is = UI, MP, campaign, career, squadrons etc.

What I am saying is that the way of the perfect simulation and very bad game above it, is wrong business strategy. You can tak away dynamic weather(as we can know from meteo statistics, what was the weather each day of BOB) and give there better UI.

So this is my point. It must be fun. this is the goal. People want to play - they do not want to fly with the totally simulated Hurri or Bf109... They want to fly like Clostermann, Hartman and others. Like these guys. And this is that crucial difference between ROF and CLOD now. But I am not saying ROF is better or not - for me personally it is, but who cares about my opinions - I am saying that the future WW2 sim should be focused primary on "fun" as I described. It is not easy, of course - that's what makes a game a legend. Now CLOD can be repaired, but content will just make it some kind of air Quake as previous IL2 series. Let's include there such nice offline campaign at least as beta campaign in ROF now. Everyone will be happy, whiner will shut up.

Look, I dont know what happened during BOBSOW, CLOD development. Why Oleg left. His 2001 IL2 was a revolution. But not CLOD. I am just thinking that maybe someone ordered them to give that initial code to WOP and they started again from scratch. But they had no time and money left to move it to such level like you can visually see in WOP. I am just wondering what happened there.

[furbs]

To be honest, i dont think we will ever really know whats happened with COD.
Not unless you get Oleg, Luthier and maybe a few others round a table with a few bottles of vodka. :)

[esmiol]

if only we can have some info.... since the last patch we don"t know what they work on.... no news about an estimate date for patch....

really they miss a lot of communication. sincerely the last news with the team is really stupid.

we want info no a familly album....

well hope luthier and co will learn to communicate better!

[Tvrdi]

What Bliss said, we will see where CLOD will be in a 2 years....Then we will JUDGE

all I said up till now is my CURRENT experience with the game and my OWN "feelings"...

[etzi]

Funny that some still believe that in the end everything will be fine with CoD.

In my opinion the patches released until now, are just tinkering.

What will be in 2 years? No one is interested in two years anymore.

As long as there is no complete investigation with the community, the trust is lost.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Yeah.. It's pretty funny that 10+ years of patching, expanding, and fixing the old IL2 would possibly make you believe they might just do that with the new one.

Funny indeed.

[etzi]

Yeah.. It's pretty funny that 10+ years of patching, expanding, and fixing the old IL2 would possibly make you believe they might just do that with the new one.

Funny indeed.

You're right, I forgot that after the release of IL2 it has the same amount of bugs in it. :roll:

IL2 was not nearly as immature as CoD after the release.

But, believe whatever you want!

[ATAG_Bliss]

You're right, I forgot that after the release of IL2 it has the same amount of bugs in it. :roll:

IL2 was not nearly as immature as CoD after the release.

But, believe whatever you want!

Really, so you're saying it's unfinished? Good call Sherlock!

As far as believing, the company already has a track record of fixing and expanding their software. And thus far, since this game has been released, it's had almost a patch every month. Seems like they are on the same track to me.

So yeah, I'll believe what I want based on past and present support. But thanks for the truly insightful post.

[David198502]

nice fairy tale bliss.
i mean you are right when its about the FMB.
at least i think so, because i still have major problems with it.im not even able to spawn planes on different times anymore.it was really easy with 1946 but now i have no glue how to do.
but i agree that there is huge potential in that machine.
now the big question is what will be done with that potential?
we know that it should be possible to have actual groundwar with human players theoretically one day.yes the controls are already here to steer vehicels.well that would be a hell of a breakthrough.
but i somehow doubt we will see that with that game.
but i really hope i am wrong.man i really do...

[JG52Uther]

Speculation on: They are working flat out on Battle of Moscow add on.When that is released bugs fixed, improvements in weather,sounds, landscape etc, will also apply to CoD.
We will probably have to pay for it though! /Speculation off

[Davy TASB]

The average bloke in the street is bothered about gameplay and having fun, not what the games engine is.
Having such a marvelous wonderful game engine that you can do so much with is all rather pointless if the product that uses it aint much cop.

Here's hoping the sim turns out to be everything SYN Bliss expects though.

[ATAG_Bliss]

The average bloke in the street is bothered about gameplay and having fun, not what the games engine is.
Having such a marvelous wonderful game engine that you can do so much with is all rather pointless if the product that uses it aint much cop.

Here's hoping the sim turns out to be everything SYN Bliss expects though.

Gameplay and having fun are directly related to the game engine. Just imagine only being able to have a total of 45 planes on a map or theater of war that had an massive invasion force in the air? (WWII BOB) Being able to recreate some history and fly in it is what makes it fun, at least to me. I like immersion.

But if your cup of tea is flying around over empty trenches in a 1vs1, that's fine with me.

[ATAG_Bliss]

nice fairy tale bliss.
i mean you are right when its about the FMB.
at least i think so, because i still have major problems with it.im not even able to spawn planes on different times anymore.it was really easy with 1946 but now i have no glue how to do.
but i agree that there is huge potential in that machine.
now the big question is what will be done with that potential?
we know that it should be possible to have actual groundwar with human players theoretically one day.yes the controls are already here to steer vehicels.well that would be a hell of a breakthrough.
but i somehow doubt we will see that with that game.
but i really hope i am wrong.man i really do...

David,

You can already drive a vehicle in the old game (IL2 46+UP3.0) I think it's some sort of jeep if I remember right. I honestly don't think that part will be hard for them at all. But there will be plenty of model work needed for the pits, etc.

[JG52Krupi]

I cant wait to jump out of my 109 into a waiting kublewagen race off to a storch or arado 196 that already has it's engine primed and take off to pick up my wingman that is hiding in some bushes or clinging to his life raft after being forced to bail out :D.

Nice dream bliss I want this so badly but I will stick for a improved Cod atm :D

[Ataros]

BTW speaking of original IL-2 I enjoyed it in 800x600 res setting color depth to 16 bit only to get my 30-35 fps. It was a great time!

I remember luthier posting on sukhoi.ru that about 1 year before release (my guess is it's when UBI pressed for timing) they had an option either to cut features and concentrate on bug fixing polishing the limited release OR to continue expanding engine possibilities. It was very tempting to reduce the workload but they took the challenge.

Some people will never get it.

[Vittuuntunut]

Originally Posted by Davy TASB:
The average bloke in the street is bothered about gameplay and having fun, not what the games engine is.
Having such a marvelous wonderful game engine that you can do so much with is all rather pointless if the product that uses it aint much cop.

Here's hoping the sim turns out to be everything SYN Bliss expects though.

Gameplay and having fun are directly related to the game engine. Just imagine only being able to have a total of 45 planes on a map or theater of war that had an massive invasion force in the air? (WWII BOB) Being able to recreate some history and fly in it is what makes it fun, at least to me. I like immersion.

But if your cup of tea is flying around over empty trenches in a 1vs1, that's fine with me.

Why you totally ignore Davy´s reasonable point? Besides, empty trenches &
1vs1 is closer to reality with CLOD than the fantasy vision you presented. Of course it would be nice if that fantasy could be realized one day.

Fantasies & excuses seem to be endless here.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Clearly reading isn't your strong point. Again, gameplay (aka what you can do with what you are playing with) is all determined by the game engine that gameplay is built around.

Offline and online I never drop below 45FPS with virtually every setting maxed inIL2COD. The game is very enjoyable to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has gotten the game to run reasonably well.

I don't really see any excuses or fantasies there. The only fantasy I mentioned whatsoever was the vehicle bits. Everything else I said about the game engine, FMB, or it's limits, are already capable currently.

But thanks for letting me know how much fun I'm having while playing it.

[Ze-Jamz]

feel the love once again...

[David198502]

David,

You can already drive a vehicle in the old game (IL2 46+UP3.0) I think it's some sort of jeep if I remember right. I honestly don't think that part will be hard for them at all. But there will be plenty of model work needed for the pits, etc.

really!?
i didnt know that!although i had UP3.interesting.

[ATAG_Bliss]

really!?
i didnt know that!although i had UP3.interesting.

Big pimpin...

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/2869/truckb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/814/truckb.jpg/)

[Davy TASB]

Clearly reading isn't your strong point.


:rolleyes:

Being snotty and snide is certainly yours though.

[robtek]

Big pimpin...

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/2869/truckb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/814/truckb.jpg/)

But the vehicles have the "flight"model from the Airacobra! Interesting is the right description, i believe.

[Heliocon]

I waited 7 months in ROF just to be able to play a MP mission for longer than 10 minutes without a server crash or a master browser crash. I waited 2 years for them to fix an annoying ROF.exe error that would have you crash to desktop when an AI spawned. Now we just happily crash to desktop when a new mission loads. Still not fixed!

IL2COD is 100x the game engine ROF will ever be. The current mission I'm running has well over 200 AI and 15,000 objects in it. Go ahead and put 200 planes in a ROF mission and see if it will even load. Go ahead and put 500 objects in one see how long before it crashes the dedicated server when 40 people are playing.

ROF's potential is used up. Only a complete and utter redesign of their game engine (which they've admitted) will change that. If I wanted to make a bridge from one side of England through the English Channel to the other side of France I simply put it on the map in IL2. That's 100's of miles of bridge. Do you think the IL2 engine has any problem doing something like that? Now how about we add an invasion fleet of 300 tanks that drives over this bridge to invade England. Now how bout we put a few 1000 objects on the airfields to make them look alive. Then lets add several hundred AI bombers to go bomb the crap out of something. Then, heck, lets go ahead and even let players play on it. Guess what will happen? People will see a huge invasion fleet crossing the English Channel and go "lol @ Bliss"

The point in all of this, is the fact that you couldn't stack 50 bridges next to each other in ROF without the server having a seizure, let alone even think about having any amount of AI over the single digit category in a full ROF MP server, (and when I mean full about 46 players is all it will take before the server will crash). ROF is great for what it is. And it's an FPS plane shooter with some very good attention to detail on the planes. You exit the planes and you're left with a barren wasteland of emptyness. No amounts of coaxing through the Mission Editor will ever change that. No huge full scale representation of WWI will ever happen with ROF. There's people that have actually made complex scripts in ROF that will make a flak gun despawn unless there is an enemy plane around. In other words, this is done just to try to keep the game running.

For many people, that's just fine. For me, it's not. I get as much enjoyment from what's actually under the hood of a flight sim as to what's on the surface. And once you've made a few missions with ROF's ME and then go to IL2's FMB, you'll find ROF's editor isn't even in the same league or same planet for that matter as the FMB. There's more static objects to add life to missions like buckets and gas cans in the FMB than every single individual object in all of ROF's ME combined. Not only can I rotate any object I want, I can place then any height, I can cut away sections of the ground, deconstruct the map. I can do virtually anything I want in the FMB.
If I want to make a trench 5 feet deep and have it go across all of England I can.

Considering WWI was a huge ground war, you'd think you might have some ground objects right? Well, think again.

This is what potential is. This is what a real sim engine can do. Do you think I'm worried about a wrong prop pitch lever, a plane that doesn't perform correctly, brakes that don't work, or bad sound? Hell do you even think I'm worried about textures that don't load right? Heck no, because all of that stuff scratch the surface of what's underneath. And what's underneath is beyond amazing.

There's more going on in a JU88 cockpit than every single plane in ROF combined. And don't even get me started on the DM. Last time I checked I could still lawn dart a spad into the ground at 200mph and the plane looks like it could actually be fixed. You can't even damage a cockpit in ROF. It takes 4 bullets, yes 4 bullets to kill a pilot in ROF. It doesn't matter if you hit him point blank in the head from a stationary gunner - 4 bullets every time. You know what it takes in 10 year old IL2 and new IL2? 1 bullet to the head. ROF just only recently introduced an effect to make it look like your plane was leaking fuel or smoking. Old IL2 has had stuff like this forever. The FM is ROF is very nice. It does feel like you are actually flying, even though there are several planes that have needed a FM revision for over 2 years now.

So next time you even think about whining in here. Take it from someone who has one of the longest lasting dedicated servers on ROF and from someone who went through all the growing pains in that sim. Comparing the 2 is very laughable. One is an all around war sim. The other is, quite simply, an FPS plane sim featuring WWI planes.

And what I've talked about just breaks the surface of what's under the hood of IL2COD. I'm not even getting into the never ending moving front line dynamic online campaigns, or how you can virtually script up ANYTHING you want to have happen in a mission. And all this stuff works now, even in it's buggy unfinished state.

People have a very valid reason to complain for lots of bugs and problems. But I've been waiting for this for a very long time now, all because of what I wrote above. There's vehicle controls in options sections for a reason. This is going to be the ultimate all around on the ground and in the air sim in the future. No other sim will come close. No other sim can even do 1/2 of what this game engine can currently. Worried? Whining? Hell no. Enthusiastically waiting for the future and another patch.

But hey, maybe you can go back over to the ROF forums and tell them they should at least be able to model the different machine guns on their planes. Aren't there only like 3 or 4 guns total in WWI fighters? Yet they all have the same rate of fire and same ammo? Let me guess, maybe after 4 years after release they'll fix that as well? Nah, probably not. They have to work on making compasses or fuel gauges to sell.

Now even after all that you'd think I hate the game. Well I own every single plane and field mod. It is the most expensive sim I've ever played. But don't go and try to compare the 2 here. It's laughable. ROF plays much smoother than IL2COD, but I'd wager a guess that will soon change.

1. Money to continue develpment and expansions comes from where?
2. How many people will buy an expansion or put more $ down on the game when there first experience is a total screw up?
3. How many fans and followers will have moved on in their life by the time we see that type of progress? Probably a good portion will be doing other things, but the game will still be stuck with the horrible reputation it has built.

[ATAG_Bliss]

1. Money to continue develpment and expansions comes from where?
2. How many people will buy an expansion or put more $ down on the game when there first experience is a total screw up?
3. How many fans and followers will have moved on in their life by the time we see that type of progress? Probably a good portion will be doing other things, but the game will still be stuck with the horrible reputation it has built.

1.) It depends. Initial funding for a project usually has nothing to do with the customer. Getting that money back does though.

2.) Judging by the amount of years the community has with the original IL2 (many 10+ years and growing), I'd say if you are flight simmer especially a WWII simmer, most of the people will know what to expect from a finished Maddox flight sim. I don't think getting support for it will be any problem at all. You're also the one calling it a screw up. I'm calling it what it is. Unfinished. The original IL2 is a WIP that keeps evolving. This new one is the same exact way. In 3 months we've had a few fairly decent patches that now make the game playable for most. They are working on a completely new sound engine and constantly improving performance and bugs. I can't really ask for more than that at this point. But I also bought it knowing full well what it will turn out for in the future, not for what it is out of the box. I'm fine with being a beta tester.

3.)It will take quite a long time to tarnish the IL2 series name. Their reputation as having one of the longest lasting, most popular flight sims of all time, is still there.