Old problem on Inspect Airfields....Help

[alsevillajr]

Spent a lot of stick time...only to be frustrated....Any surefire techniques to avoid "the flip"????....I have read and tried most of the suggestions...combining some of them and trying other maneuvers...still a hit and miss. It is so disappointing after doing a textbook landing...right now I just want to accomplish the mission...after hitting your last airfield and end up pitched over or worse...it's gotta stop!!!! Thanks

[Gilly]

Sadly no surefire way. Most of the suggestions to alleviate are mentioned in the forum but it's more often a case of roll the dice. I tend to use rudder kick and then upon decelerating reset my flaps and use the canons to slow quicker.... Still nosedives too often. It's one of the many IL2 quirks.
Sad to say it's going to be trial and error to accomplish it.

[alsevillajr]

Thanks anyway Gilly...I was weary that... that would be the case...perhaps I'll join the friendly skies one of these days...

[bobbysocks]

ps3 or xbox? for xbox..i always came in on a long final..dumping as much speed and alt as possible so when i hit the field i would drift far. after i got the tail wheel on the ground...i fired my guns to slow further. with the flight stick i do not have brakes. when i started to slow to 40 mph ( 70ish kph ) i let go of the stick completely anticipating the dip. i watched to speed and when it hit 30 and the nose started i pulled back to counter. most of the time that will do it. where i had the harder time is on the shorter fields...hence the reason i did very long final approaches. if this stuff isnt working for you...like gilly said, you are going to have to start experimenting and see if you can find something that works for you. that is how i came up with my formula. good luck...

[KAV]

Sadly no surefire way. Most of the suggestions to alleviate are mentioned in the forum but it's more often a case of roll the dice. I tend to use rudder kick and then upon decelerating reset my flaps and use the canons to slow quicker.... Still nosedives too often. It's one of the many IL2 quirks.
Sad to say it's going to be trial and error to accomplish it.

Yepp, as Gilly says, its a Il2 quirk, and a very frustrating one.
There is nothing you can do to avoid the noseover, its all up to AI.
Just keep breaking till 60, lay of the brakes and rudder both ways and you might get lucky..........

[Robotic Pope]

Yepp, as Gilly says, its a Il2 quirk, and a very frustrating one.
There is nothing you can do to avoid the noseover, its all up to AI.
Just keep breaking till 60, lay of the brakes and rudder both ways and you might get lucky..........

Yes, although you can get better at avoiding it. It isn't any AI making you crash, Its just it is very very sensitive to what you do. Get it just right and you land, get it only very slightly wrong and you fall over.

[alsevillajr]

ps3 or xbox? for xbox..i always came in on a long final..dumping as much speed and alt as possible so when i hit the field i would drift far. after i got the tail wheel on the ground...i fired my guns to slow further. with the flight stick i do not have brakes. when i started to slow to 40 mph ( 70ish kph ) i let go of the stick completely anticipating the dip. i watched to speed and when it hit 30 and the nose started i pulled back to counter. most of the time that will do it. where i had the harder time is on the shorter fields...hence the reason i did very long final approaches. if this stuff isnt working for you...like gilly said, you are going to have to start experimenting and see if you can find something that works for you. that is how i came up with my formula. good luck...
PS3...using AV8R...I tried using the wireless controller yesterday as somebody suggested...I would venture to say that would be sacrilegious :) for the purists...way too over-responsive...need to turn down sensitivity...on the stick I'm on custom and have everything on full sensitivity.. no dead zones...no nonlinearity...Quick question though...the only reason I tried using wireless was it was mentioned that it has brakes...doesn't have a button for it???

[alsevillajr]

Yes, although you can get better at avoiding it. It isn't any AI making you crash, Its just it is very very sensitive to what you do. Get it just right and you land, get it only very slightly wrong and you fall over.
Are you saying the AI recognizes a good landing and a bad one...and the tip over is a result, regardless of braking technique?

[bobbysocks]

Brakes on a stick? i have an ace edge for xbox....no brakes. and i dont remember one for the AV8R stickes either. I an not too familar with PS3 sticks to be able to tell you but I am pretty sure the Thrustmaster HOTAS does not have a brake either. that is why i resort to firing guns or "wagging" the rudder <<< doesnt work all that great.

this glitch i believe has its roots in that "inspect the airflields" mission. I revisited that months ago and IIRC when you hit 30 mph on your final airfield it gave me a mission complete. Or there was something else that occured at that speed during that mission that made me think it was it was the cause for the glitch. i could be and probably am barking up the wrong tree but.... i am going to have to retry that now...

[alsevillajr]

Brakes on a stick? i have an ace edge for xbox....no brakes. and i dont remember one for the AV8R stickes either. I an not too familar with PS3 sticks to be able to tell you but I am pretty sure the Thrustmaster HOTAS does not have a brake either. that is why i resort to firing guns or "wagging" the rudder <<< doesnt work all that great.

this glitch i believe has its roots in that "inspect the airflields" mission. I revisited that months ago and IIRC when you hit 30 mph on your final airfield it gave me a mission complete. Or there was something else that occured at that speed during that mission that made me think it was it was the cause for the glitch. i could be and probably am barking up the wrong tree but.... i am going to have to retry that now...
I just posted a new thread regarding the stick and settings...I know you are quite familiar with yours...surprisingly I thought mine was just fine until now...I've had this stick not too long...don't know if it was wear and tear...but I would look into it.I realized this after Robotic's reply to the subject at hand...I'll ask you the same question...Are you saying the AI recognizes a good landing and a bad one...and the tip over is a result, regardless of braking technique? I just tried it once on the longest run way on the mission...don't know the the name of the airfield...need to brush up on my history...but I think its somewhere in Kent?...Anyway...I attempted the softest landing I could, utilizing a very long and shallow final, aiming for the early part of the runway...as to allow for a long run out...well that field has ample length anyway...and keeping in mind that the runway is slightly raised as to the grassy area...kept it on the main runway...I believe I shut down almost as I touched down...anticipating the magic speed at 57 KPH as expected...tipped slightly but a quick tug, on the stick...set it right back down...I just tried it once...but I believe Robotic is not far from the phenomenon...perhaps not a glitch but purposefully put it as an added challenge due to the Spitfire's nose heavy characteristic...ya think???

[Robotic Pope]

Are you saying the AI recognizes a good landing and a bad one...and the tip over is a result, regardless of braking technique?

No, I mean there is no AI. It is your movements with the controls that determins whether you fall over or not. But the line between getting it right and not is so fine that you can never be 100% garenteed not to tip over even once you have mastered it. EvangelousE (SEE) is the best I know at landing the spit on sim, he uses the stick (no brakes) and has a pretty high landing succcess rate. I use the joypad though and have a completly different way of landing, I'd guess my success rate is around 75% ?

Its one of those things that someone else can only give you ideas on what to do. You really have to just keep practicing and experimenting until you the right way for you.

Edit: I will add that it is definately not right for an aircraft to nose over like this, so it is a glitch in my opinion. The 30mph(57kph) tip up is against the laws of physics. The energy needed to suddenly lift the plane comes from nowhere.

[bobbysocks]

go easy on the back stick @ 57. i dont pull back hard...just a slight tip back works for me. its not normal for a plane to tip like that at that low of speed unless you jam on brakes or hit something on the ground. once the tail wheel is on the ground and you have slowed it should be easy goings. so i agree it is a glitch...and it appears on more than just the spit. but it is more pronounced in that ac than the others.. get one of the PS guys who is really good to do a free flight with you and land at manston ( where you were before ).

[alsevillajr]

Yup...no arguments there... I'm convinced....one thing I did learn...that it pointed out the slop on my stick...now it's smooth as silk...still haven't accomplished the mission...dammit..:evil:

[alsevillajr]

Hi Bobby...not to beat a dead horse....when it said sticks have no brakes or you have no brakes...does it matter what setting your leave your throttle in...I've tried low settings like 10%, 5%... tried quick bursts...What throttle setting do you use if not idle, which I assume is 0% ???

[Robotic Pope]

Hi Bobby...not to beat a dead horse....when it said sticks have no brakes or you have no brakes...does it matter what setting your leave your throttle in...I've tried low settings like 10%, 5%... tried quick bursts...What throttle setting do you use if not idle, which I assume is 0% ???

Shut the throttle off, makes no difference, just makes your landing longer. Brakes or no brakes it doesn't matter how you slow down up until the glitch, its what you do with the stick when you hit the glitch speed. My way is to stop braking as the tipping speed aproches than pull down on the stick a split second before the tip, you have to time it exactly. If you get it perfect then the plane just nods a little then I can jam on the brakes as much as I like (which is also wrong as this really would make the plane eat dirt).

Before I had the timeing sorted, I found it easier to pull down on the stick many times around the tipping speed because one of you pulls would be likely be on time, if you know what I mean. firing guns at the right instant helped too but I find I don't need to do that anymore.

Its like you need to have the change in balance rearward at the exact moment the balance shifts forward in the glich and the two cancel each other out. This is why just holding the stick down or constant firing at the tip over doesn't work because there is no suddeness to cancel the forward (dark) energy of the glitch speed.

[FOZ_1983]

I use the AV8R-2 and so had the same problem.

My solution (seems to work for me) is to increase the throttle ever so slighty when your plane is at a low enough speed to make the "flip", then bring it back down again.

Or just keep the tail wheel up for as long as possible.

[Robotic Pope]

I use the AV8R-2 and so had the same problem.

My solution (seems to work for me) is to increase the throttle ever so slighty when your plane is at a low enough speed to make the "flip", then bring it back down again.

Or just keep the tail wheel up for as long as possible.

I guess that works too, with the sudden power pushing the balance back to cancel the dark energy. When I tried this during my learning though, I usualy put too much power too early, causing me to trundle along just ubove the tipping speed before running out of runway.

Alsevillajr, As you can probably see, everyone finds their own way of landing the spit. What works for one may not for another.

[alsevillajr]

Thanks rob...I get it now...it's all about the sequence right before the tipping point...I will narrow it down to guns or pulling back on stick...and get my timing better...all these tricks I've tried and all have worked. So it's all about the timing...got it...I agree with you about the the throttle thing...that's worked for me too on a few occasions...but funny...but one time I gave it too much and got up to 57 again and what do you think happened...thanks again...cheers to you too FOZ

[alsevillajr]

Back to my observation about Layouts and settings...I'm making it official...having the layout on Aviator (AV8R) makes the "Tip Over" bug almost negligible and on some landings it does not even "Tip"...Having the layout on "Custom" does allow for a much crisper response on the stick, hence allows for finer adjustments and customize buttons...just don't use it when you're on a mission that you know you have to land. Also, when on "Custom", on some missions earlier in the Campaign, when the secondary objective was to land on an airfield, after you are given that option...it will not allow you to use the select button...what I did back then was to "pause" and switch back to "Aviator layout", which I thought was a PITA...I know...this game has been out for 2 years now and may not even concern yourself with this but thought I would post it anyway for the new aviators out there...and for you hard core Sim guys...if you didn't know...now you do:grin: Plus I doubt if the you hard core Sim guys will be using an AV8R anyway:rolleyes: