Patience is a virtue...

[the Dutchman]

...that i lack,but fortunately i decided to wait with buying this sim,depending on the experiences that people share here.

Having said that there's something i must get of my chest;
Although i understand peoples (ongoing)frustration the way some of you are going about it is without any respect for the dev's,i'm afraid sometimes you guys are chasing away Luthier,i hope he doesn't take all your negative comments personal,Jezus!

You and ONLY you decided you had to be among the first buyers,right?
So maybe you shouldn't put all the blame elsewhere?
If you followed the development of CoD closely,you could have picked up the signs that it could become a difficult birth for times!

C'mon guys lighten up,take a break,and take a good look in the mirror!

[Vengeanze]

C'mon guys lighten up,take a break,and take a good look in the mirror!
Can't. Turned it off. It's bugged and decrease FPS with 6-8 frames.

[the Dutchman]

Can't. Turned it off. It's bugged and decrease FPS with 6-8 frames.

LOL!

You lightened up,for sure!

[609_Huetz]

I am so happy to see that someone just found out that it's the customer's fault if you sell them a broken and incomplete product. I will bring that up on the regular monday-morning meeting at my company. Thanks for your words of wisdom.

Seriously...

[Zorin]

To be honest its the other way around, Luthier seems to be chasing away the current and potential new customers, we have forgiven all the bare faced lies that we were told during development. Personally I saw through a lot of the bull crap that we were shown and told as most here know, but I never expected the release to be quite this bad, its very clear that no testing was done at all, and that the game was barely half finished (Luthiers own admission). With all that in mind you would of thought that they would be bending over backwards to keep us updated and to fix the most crucial elements of this sim, they should be deeply sorry and throwing every penny made from sales into fixing this game because they sold it under false pretences IMHO

+100

So maybe you shouldn't put all the blame elsewhere?

Who else do you think we should blame if not the guys responsible for the development of this game?

As Tree said, we have been sold a product under false pretences, which is a legal offense btw, yet you want us to lighten up? Strange world you live in where you enjoy being screwed over...

I am sure Luthier is pissed beyond words that things have turned out the way they have, rightfully so, but given the track record of the entire CoD development, this community is the last group of people to be blamed for anything.

They should try EVERYTHING to keep us in the loop now to regain our respect, but as we all can witness, NOTHING. Zero interaction with the community, threads are being created by Luthier and you can consider yourself lucky if there are more than two replies from him within 30 pages...

Best example for how screwed up this situation has become is Luthier's reaction when I pointed out the porthole texture mishap. A MINOR issues which could have been delt with within 20 minutes and a "Thank you for spotting that!", but as we all could witness he insulted me, a paying customer, in public only to lose his face afterwards by being proven wrong.

Why on earth can't they embrace the help they are being offered and do away with all the evasiveness and secrecy. It's just beyond me...

[JG52Uther]

but fortunately i decided to wait with buying this sim

So you haven't actually bought it yet, but still feel its ok to have a go about people complaining after they have paid for something broken with their own hard earned money?
Maybe you should buy it, to help support the devs, and maybe, just maybe, it might stop this random collection of badly optimised programming going down the toilet.
One thing I will say for CoD in its current (and for the forseeable future) state, its almost single handedly cured my 10 year addiction for the il2 series...

[ATAG_Dutch]

One thing I will say for CoD in its current (and for the forseeable future) state, its almost single handedly cured my 10 year addiction for the il2 series...

Totally agree. Can't play IL2 because it's now so obviously old and outdated.
Can't play Cliffs of Dover until they sort it out.

Now learning to operate an A-10 Warthog and feel like a traitor.:(

[LoBiSoMeM]

I can fly IL-2 Cliffs of Dover ok. I'm having a great time since last two oficial patches. Great performance.

But people maybe think I have low expectations

or

A NASA computer

or

I lie a lot!

People tend to only listen the bad reviews. I cursed this sim a lot after the first crap release, but the work in patching the initial bugfest is in good pace. With the content we have now, we can have tons of fun!

But some people don't want to have fun, soem people here are just sick: they only want to point the obvious flaws.

I fly in IL-2 since 2001. Love old IL-2 1946. But CloD is a masterpiece, and I'm not an idiot to not see that what i already have, with all placeholders and bugs, is by far the best combat flight sim EVER MADE!

Just that... This isn't another FPS title of one boring franchise. Respect this work, fools!

[SlipBall]

Well I did buy it, but have not complained as of yet. Someday this is going to be a great trouble free sim:grin:...haven't been able to run it yet! but my money may help them survive

[ATAG_Dutch]

Snigger.:rolleyes:

[SlipBall]

Snigger.:rolleyes:


Hey hows it going hell4hitler?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Hey hows it going hell4hitler?

HaHaah, love it!! :)

[Blackdog_kt]

This thread will only end up going down in flames anyway, so here's my take on things.

In my personal case, i knew what i was getting into and i decided to buy it anyway. My decision, my problem, i spot and submit the bugs for them to fix, if i can find workarounds i'll post them to get other players up and running and that's all there is to it.

On to the grand scheme of things now...

I believe the communication from the developer team wasn't very good. On the other hand, and i don't mean this as an excuse for them but just as a statement of factual past experience, they were always lacking in that regard. Anybody who has dealt with a developer and their products for some length of time knows what are their strong and weak points, so i knew we would get a lot of cool stuff mixed in with bugs and a lack of information. It's just a matter of personal evaluation for each of the fans, deciding if they will go ahead and take the dive into the new sim or wait until it matures a bit.

I believe some people got genuinely misled, especially if they were new guys who never tried out the previous series and these are owed some kind of apology no doubt.

What i seriously don't get and don't believe for one second is that certain veteran members of the community, with quite a few years of experience behind their backs on how the previous series unfolded and how maddox games generally operates were totally unaware of the coming troubles, especially when in many cases they were spelling it out themselves during the development phase like a chorus of Cassandras.

No, these guys simply couldn't wait for the first reviews and/or couldn't stand not having the sim on their hard drive even though they knew what was coming. As such, if they want to maintain some kind of credibility they also have to acknowledge their part of the blame not in the state of the sim but in their self-inflicted angst.

In other words i'm not saying the state of the sim is their fault, far from it. I'm saying their fault is buying into something they knew (knew is actually mild, it's more like prophecised and going all "i told you so") would have teething problems and as such, i can't really sympathize with their point of view. Of course it's their right to maintain whatever point of view they want, i'm just saying i'm not convinced one iota and choose to maintain a different opinion.

I mean, if the most pessimistic of people during the development phase decide to be day one buyers instead of doing the sensible thing and waiting it out, i can't help but chuckle a bit.
It's self-inflicted agony and e-masochism at its best, turned into a sense of entitlement out of pretending to be misled about stuff they were predicting all along, which results in hilarious self-contradiction: it's "i told you so all along" on one hand and "i got fooled by the devs" on the other one :grin:

I don't mind to be honest, it spices up the forums and adds a welcome comedy factor to lighten up the workload of testing, bug reporting and making tutorials/troubleshooting guides for those who want to post the useful stuff. Not minding doesn't mean i won't call it for what i see it though, a valid point of view presented in a tragicomic way that saps it of its credibility.

[flyingblind]

Ok, lets take the restuarant analogy used on the forum. People quite rightly say they would be angry if they ate out and paid for a disgusting meal. Perhaps not such a good analogy because you would start eating before you paid so you could complain and get your meal redone or just walk out without parting with cash. But lets suppose you paid up front and then found the meal inedible? Well in this particular restuarant the kitchen staff are saying that if you care to remain seated they will continue to serve you food at no extra cost untile they get it right and you are happy.
Of course you may never be satisfied but at least they did their best and they haven't just taken your money and ran. If they wanted to do that they would have released in America, grabbed what they could and folded.

[timholt]

One thing I will say for CoD in its current (and for the forseeable future) state, its almost single handedly cured my 10 year addiction for the il2 series...

Sadly me too.

[Lixma]

Also, let's not forget the people at neighbouring tables leaning over and telling us that it's our fault the veal is overdone and we are the reason the restaurant business is in the state it's in.

[senseispcc]

With all that in mind you would of thought that they would be bending over backwards to keep us updated and to fix the most crucial elements of this sim, they should be deeply sorry and throwing every penny made from sales into fixing this game because they sold it under false pretences IMHO


Geduld, Geduld...patience, patience the world shall get there!:-P

[robtek]

no, its your fault choosing a restaurant with known problems but otherwise fine cusine, but then valuating it only talking about the problems.

[Tree_UK]

no, its your fault choosing a restaurant with known problems but otherwise fine cusine, but then valuating it only talking about the problems.

Of course its my fault..... I missed Luthiers post the night before the release saying listen up guys the game is nowhere near finished so please be warned, it wont run out of the box well at all, the sounds are crap thats why we avoided showing you any sounds, the videos we showed you were all faked so the game appeared to be running fine, the leaked video that got you all excited showing how well the game ran was a clever little marketing ploy, when i told you all that I like shiney new planes it was because the weathering didn't work and I was making it up about SLI working when i said 'why wouldn't it'. AA doesn't function at all, we also mislead you about the PC's not having enough ram at the Russian show so thats why it looked so choppy and the FPS was appalling. Ubisoft advertising directX 11 is just an oversight, and when we put cooperative play on the box we just assumed it may work. Yep, definetley my fault Robtek.

[the Dutchman]

I am so happy to see that someone just found out that it's the customer's fault if you sell them a broken and incomplete product. I will bring that up on the regular monday-morning meeting at my company. Thanks for your words of wisdom.

Seriously...


No,it's the custumers fault that they are so stupid to buy it,you obviously lack common sense.......:rolleyes:

[Hooves]

Well as a one of those "just wait guys, it will be great" Fellas, I have finally reached my BS limit.

After all the performance issues, and things that I was patient for and all the God DAMN push backs on STEAM US (waiting for friends to get a copy, now they have spent their money else where) and all the ridiculous changes to the 109. They have completely alienated me with this sound dropping issue. I mean For F's Sake, you give me a now ridiculously engine blowing prone plane. which requires my every ounce of attention to make sure its in RPM limits. Then the sound goes out and not subtly either. It sounds like my wife dropped a fork in the garbage disposal and left it running while she went shopping. Then NOTHING. The silence is deafening.

The worst part? Lutheir says Oh 3 Months on that bug. Too bad, so sad. off the the bank with my 50 bucks he goes. tralalalala.

Horse Shiiit. I not only want my money back but I want a damn personal apology.

[jimbop]

I bought it to support development and fully expected bugs. But nothing like the half-finished rubbish that was released.

Regardless, I would be much more forgiving if the communication were better. The devs don't seem to be making use of or listening to the community at all - no indication that the bug threads are even being monitored. Starting to get the impression that the western community is not important?

[the Dutchman]

This goes as as far as;where we deliberatly misled?
If CoD was released full well knowingly it was in alpha,well...only an insider has that information.

[SEE]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and right to express it. Threads that are asking peeps to change or moderate them don't work however well intentioned.

I knew the state of CLoD on release and still purchased it. I think it has improved in many areas, particularly in performance but I do find it odd that the devs seem to ignore, or place on the back burner, the more serious problems that everyone hoped would be a priority. I'm not a programmer but would expect that many of these problems were obvious long before the title was released.

I don't regret buying it despite the bugs. I think it was money well spent and prepared to wait for the 'Pheonix to rise from the ashes'. Meanwhile I will continue to enjoy it in its present state.

[robtek]

Of course its my fault..... I missed Luthiers post the night before the release saying listen up guys the game is nowhere near finished so please be warned, it wont run out of the box well at all, the sounds are crap thats why we avoided showing you any sounds, the videos we showed you were all faked so the game appeared to be running fine, the leaked video that got you all excited showing how well the game ran was a clever little marketing ploy, when i told you all that I like shiney new planes it was because the weathering didn't work and I was making it up about SLI working when i said 'why wouldn't it'. AA doesn't function at all, we also mislead you about the PC's not having enough ram at the Russian show so thats why it looked so choppy and the FPS was appalling. Ubisoft advertising directX 11 is just an oversight, and when we put cooperative play on the box we just assumed it may work. Yep, definetley my fault Robtek.

There you go, making my point: only talking about the faults!
Not one word about the fixed things.
Are you trying to prove freycinet is right after all??? :-D :-D :-D

[Tiger27]

Of course its my fault..... I missed Luthiers post the night before the release saying listen up guys the game is nowhere near finished so please be warned, it wont run out of the box well at all, the sounds are crap thats why we avoided showing you any sounds, the videos we showed you were all faked so the game appeared to be running fine, the leaked video that got you all excited showing how well the game ran was a clever little marketing ploy, when i told you all that I like shiney new planes it was because the weathering didn't work and I was making it up about SLI working when i said 'why wouldn't it'. AA doesn't function at all, we also mislead you about the PC's not having enough ram at the Russian show so thats why it looked so choppy and the FPS was appalling. Ubisoft advertising directX 11 is just an oversight, and when we put cooperative play on the box we just assumed it may work. Yep, definetley my fault Robtek.

and just when I thought you turned all soft and fluffy, good to see your still hammering away at it Tree, at least we know CoD still has some life :wink:

[Tree_UK]

There you go, making my point: only talking about the faults!
Not one word about the fixed things.
Are you trying to prove freycinet is right after all??? :-D :-D :-D

lol, well I know I sound a little gloomy, its just that this game could of been soooo brilliant, Its like a wonderful looking cake you lick the top of it and its a taste sensation but when you get to the core its a little bit sickening.:grin:

[JG52Uther]

Of course its my fault..... I missed Luthiers post the night before the release saying listen up guys the game is nowhere near finished so please be warned, it wont run out of the box well at all, the sounds are crap thats why we avoided showing you any sounds, the videos we showed you were all faked so the game appeared to be running fine, the leaked video that got you all excited showing how well the game ran was a clever little marketing ploy, when i told you all that I like shiney new planes it was because the weathering didn't work and I was making it up about SLI working when i said 'why wouldn't it'. AA doesn't function at all, we also mislead you about the PC's not having enough ram at the Russian show so thats why it looked so choppy and the FPS was appalling. Ubisoft advertising directX 11 is just an oversight, and when we put cooperative play on the box we just assumed it may work. Yep, definetley my fault Robtek.

Post of the month for me, and sums it all up unfortunately.

[addman]

I paid my 40€ for this game, I don't owe anybody to do anything. If I like the game and consider it functioning and playable with a lot of good content then I will praise it. If it's buggy, broken, unoptimized and lacking in content then I will tell it like it is. This is how a consumer should reason, if you try to defend something that doesn't deserve to be defended then you're doing other consumers a great disservice. As I said in the beginning, I paid what the game maker asked from me, he is the one who has to prove to me that I spent my money well.

Being a sim does not excuse this game in any way, that's selective thinking and is only for the deluded. A game is a game is a game, no more no less. Yes, patience is a virtue, maybe next time 1c/MG/Ubi can have the patience to wait for us to pay until their product is finished, patience is indeed a virtue that should apply to EVERYONE.

[Chivas]

Those very very bad developers should have told us not to buy their unfinished product, but it would have been counterproductive for EVERYONE. Atleast now there is a chance the new funds will finance further development as seems to be case at the moment. Yes we all could have waited until the sim was in better condition before we bought it, but without the added financing the sim would have shut down long before that happened. Consider it an investment that could net you another ten years of decent entertainment. The alternative is not good.

[Blackdog_kt]

Of course its my fault..... I missed Luthiers post the night before the release saying listen up guys the game is nowhere near finished so please be warned, it wont run out of the box well at all, the sounds are crap thats why we avoided showing you any sounds, the videos we showed you were all faked so the game appeared to be running fine, the leaked video that got you all excited showing how well the game ran was a clever little marketing ploy, when i told you all that I like shiney new planes it was because the weathering didn't work and I was making it up about SLI working when i said 'why wouldn't it'. AA doesn't function at all, we also mislead you about the PC's not having enough ram at the Russian show so thats why it looked so choppy and the FPS was appalling. Ubisoft advertising directX 11 is just an oversight, and when we put cooperative play on the box we just assumed it may work. Yep, definetley my fault Robtek.


Mate, seriously, at least half of these were stuff you were questioning and complaining about way before release.

Let's be honest here, you didn't get fooled by anyone, you just chose to ignore your own predictions and hope it will turn out well. It didn't and then you got disappointed.

You know i mean no offense, i just find it hard to believe you got fooled when you were calling it out yourself weeks/months before it was released ;)

[furbs]

Blackdog...i think Tree would agree with you, he didn't get fooled but his post could mean all the people that did.

[SlipBall]

HaHaah, love it!! :)

Cool!:grin:

[Rather peeved]

Post of the month for me, and sums it all up unfortunately.

This is also my feeling. it's not so much the fact the game doesn't work, it's all the bulldust that was told in the lead up to release.

the blow to the Il2 brand's credibility is substantial, and they have a long way to go to win my trust back.

Regular and honest communication is the best way to get this back on track.

[Tree_UK]

Mate, seriously, at least half of these were stuff you were questioning and complaining about way before release.

Let's be honest here, you didn't get fooled by anyone, you just chose to ignore your own predictions and hope it will turn out well. It didn't and then you got disappointed.

You know i mean no offense, i just find it hard to believe you got fooled when you were calling it out yourself weeks/months before it was released ;)

Thank you for the recognition, I bet Luthier hated me, I saw through so much of the Bull Dust, he most of thought I was working in his office, your right of course, i didn't get fooled, but I still supported the sim because we have nothing else. In order to discuss the woes of this sim you have to have purchased it first right?. However my biggest disappointment is not with the Bull crap before release but the poor effort in communication after, and of course the complete lack of an apology of any sorts after trousering our cash, Oleg left looking like a petty criminal rather then being showered in the glory that he much deserved. That is a shame and much of it is his own doing.

[Thee_oddball]

I paid my 40€ for this game, I don't owe anybody to do anything. If I like the game and consider it functioning and playable with a lot of good content then I will praise it. If it's buggy, broken, unoptimized and lacking in content then I will tell it like it is. This is how a consumer should reason, if you try to defend something that doesn't deserve to be defended then you're doing other consumers a great disservice. As I said in the beginning, I paid what the game maker asked from me, he is the one who has to prove to me that I spent my money well.

Being a sim does not excuse this game in any way, that's selective thinking and is only for the deluded. A game is a game is a game, no more no less. Yes, patience is a virtue, maybe next time 1c/MG/Ubi can have the patience to wait for us to pay until their product is finished, patience is indeed a virtue that should apply to EVERYONE.

+1 but we still need to keep plugging away...I don't want some port from XBOX tobe the next ww2 sim i fly..
S!

[retrojet]

I just finished watching an episode on the History Channel of the air-war during WWII.
Those involved gave their lives for what they believed was a true fight for freedom.
I had an uncle in an armoured division who was killed in the last days of the war.
I respect their sacrifice and play sims to try to 'feel' what was an incredible period in history.
If, for fifty bucks, I can get anywhere close to that experience ...even if only virtually... I think it's worth it.
Were time-travel an option, I wouldn't be typing this sad effort...
COD maybe rough for some, but the YouTube vids I've seen prove it's got great potential...

If I were a programming genius and able to code the greatest sim ever, I would!

But I'm not... And respect the guys who try... I don't believe the COD team
are out to intentionally make our lives, and theirs, a gaming nightmare...

...yer, I'm a mug... Say what you will... But at least I refuse to get so effed up about a bloody game, when the world is effed up for real!

[ATAG_Doc]

Some people are going to become bitter old men and all alone. You accept it you cannot worry about them.

[Bryan21cag]

Those very very bad developers should have told us not to buy their unfinished product, but it would have been counterproductive for EVERYONE. At least now there is a chance the new funds will finance further development as seems to be case at the moment. Yes we all could have waited until the sim was in better condition before we bought it, but without the added financing the sim would have shut down long before that happened. Consider it an investment that could net you another ten years of decent entertainment. The alternative is not good.

LOL They didn't need to trick me in order to get my money :)

I LOVE IL2 series and therefore I would be happy to part with not only $50.00 for the game but i would gladly donate plenty more for further development as needed if they were just honest about the state of the sim's development. hell i would have dropped like $500 bucks on them and than found a way to deducted it on my taxes or something. I have spent at least that much in other games and hobbies to fill in for the time I would have loved to have been playing the next Great WWII flight sim by there team ....LOL.....sigh :)

I'm sure I am not the only one that would have done that. They could have at least tried this first and then if no one came forward willing to invest in the future of WWII flight sims then they could have moved into the lets just release it and hope for more money to finish it plan :)

Not really holding a grudge about it any more but felt a bit like i had been led into an alley by a Jennifer Aniston for treats and than Ravaged in my virgin part by BUBBA against my will instead, after the first releases and patches. :)

next time i guess :P

cheers

[Thee_oddball]

I just finished watching an episode on the History Channel of the air-war during WWII.
Those involved gave their lives for what they believed was a true fight for freedom.
I had an uncle in an armoured division who was killed in the last days of the war.
I respect their sacrifice and play sims to try to 'feel' what was an incredible period in history.
If, for fifty bucks, I can get anywhere close to that experience ...even if only virtually... I think it's worth it.
Were time-travel an option, I wouldn't be typing this sad effort...
COD maybe rough for some, but the YouTube vids I've seen prove it's got great potential...

If I were a programming genius and able to code the greatest sim ever, I would!

But I'm not... And respect the guys who try... I don't believe the COD team
are out to intentionally make our lives, and theirs, a gaming nightmare...

...yer, I'm a mug... Say what you will... But at least I refuse to get so effed up about a bloody game, when the world is effed up for real!

this world is going to make a great archeological dig for some alien race that actually had a CLUE!

S!

p.s i hope they find a FW190A4 intact :)

[Tree_UK]

Those very very bad developers should have told us not to buy their unfinished product, but it would have been counterproductive for EVERYONE. Atleast now there is a chance the new funds will finance further development as seems to be case at the moment. Yes we all could have waited until the sim was in better condition before we bought it, but without the added financing the sim would have shut down long before that happened. Consider it an investment that could net you another ten years of decent entertainment. The alternative is not good.

Sorry, but yet again this is just pure speculation.

[JG52Krupi]

Sorry, but yet again this is just pure speculation.

Lol really, tree your the king of speculation and now a massive hypocrite :D

[Pluto]

...that i lack,but fortunately i decided to wait with buying this sim,depending on the experiences that people share here.

Having said that there's something i must get of my chest;
Although i understand peoples (ongoing)frustration the way some of you are going about it is without any respect for the dev's,i'm afraid sometimes you guys are chasing away Luthier,i hope he doesn't take all your negative comments personal,Jezus!

You and ONLY you decided you had to be among the first buyers,right?
So maybe you shouldn't put all the blame elsewhere?
If you followed the development of CoD closely,you could have picked up the signs that it could become a difficult birth for times!

C'mon guys lighten up,take a break,and take a good look in the mirror!

... I have read a lot of crap here in this forum, but you really overtake them all with yours. Sorry. If I would work in my job like the guys who work for this project for 6 years now, I´d be fired long time ago! That is a fact and not meant as an insult to anyone, just in case somebody will feel upset about my answer again and I´m sure there will be 3 or 4. ( for sure all those brown-nosers who thank Luthier gushily each time they bring out a new patch, hahaha, ... )

[Tree_UK]

Lol really, tree your the king of speculation and now a massive hypocrite :D

Well I hit the mark on most, but i will keep the 'King' bit.

[jimbop]

Those very very bad developers should have told us not to buy their unfinished product...

+1

Didn't bother to quote the rest since it was mostly rubbish. Even if you honestly believe this sort of deceit is acceptable it failed the ultimate commercial practice test in that it was hugely unintelligent. Consider what has happened to the previously highly-respected IL2 brand over the last few months and then tell me again that the release strategy was for the best.

Basically, the team had a certain amount of trust 'capital' to get them through the release (in one form or another) of what was unarguably a half-finished beta at best. Instead of spending that capital over time by being honest with the customer base and working through the final stages of release with the help of the community they blew it all in a single roll by lying about the state of the game to make money. Openess about the state of the game would have gone a long way toward redirecting anger from the state of the release toward useful discussion.

The reason there is no trust left in the bank is that the dev's view of the world is obvious all to see: truth, community trust and respect < $$$. And this is an extremely short-sighted equation.

I don't know whether contractual obligations meant that a paid beta release was impossible but at the very least the devs should have been honest with their customer base. I bet the reviews would have been more lenient, or possibly the game would not have been reviewed at all until it was actually ready, too.

Unfortunately, it seems as though few lessons have been learnt. The dev presence on the forums has all but disappeared resulting in the trust of the community in the dev team trending in the wrong direction. A decade of hard work pretty much blown, and for what?

[Tree_UK]

+1

Didn't bother to quote the rest since it was mostly rubbish. Even if you honestly believe this sort of deceit is acceptable it failed the ultimate commercial practice test in that it was hugely unintelligent. Consider what has happened to the previously highly-respected IL2 brand over the last few months and then tell me again that the release strategy was for the best.

Basically, the team had a certain amount of trust 'capital' to get them through the release (in one form or another) of what was unarguably a half-finished beta at best. Instead of spending that capital over time by being honest with the customer base and working through the final stages of release with the help of the community they blew it all in a single roll by lying about the state of the game to make money. Openess about the state of the game would have gone a long way toward redirecting anger from the state of the release toward useful discussion.

The reason there is no trust left in the bank is that the dev's view of the world is obvious all to see: truth, community trust and respect < $$$. And this is an extremely short-sighted equation.

I don't know whether contractual obligations meant that a paid beta release was impossible but at the very least the devs should have been honest with their customer base. I bet the reviews would have been more lenient, or possibly the game would not have been reviewed at all until it was actually ready, too.

Unfortunately, it seems as though few lessons have been learnt. The dev presence on the forums has all but disappeared resulting in the trust of the community in the dev team trending in the wrong direction. A decade of hard work pretty much blown, and for what?

Excellent post +100

[jimbop]

Thanks Tree but i started off a bit strong. Apologies in advance, Chivas, since I understand where you're coming from regarding the necessity for release and funding.

[BigPickle]

Thats exactly the problem NO LONGIVITY, like the guys here saying the Dev's should use user made sound mods as stock. Hell no i want the sound engine fixed thank you, mods are a bonus not stock.

[carguy_]

The reason there is no trust left in the bank is that the dev's view of the world is obvious all to see: truth, community trust and respect < $$$. And this is an extremely short-sighted equation.

Excellent, just excellent.
You keep saying something about an equation and yet you keep buying the same Call of Duty bullshit every year. Yet when a very ambitious and passionate dev team needs money and releases a brand new product, you fire away like you never knew what a video game market is.
It is obvious that ppl like you need a reality check. 1C going only for the $$$? YOU JUST GOT A NEW FLYABLE PLANE FOR CHRIST SAKE - FOOOOOOOR FREE (Bf109E-1). No trust?! WHERE WERE YOU FROM 2001 THROUGH 2007?! We got so much stuff free that companies like MS/CAPCOM would EASILY make a brand new FULL RETAIL PRICE title out of it. But noooooooo. You payed 50 bucks and it aaaaaaal goes out the window because you feel cheated but DIDN`T take any time to actually analize what state SoW was in. You are full of it!


I don't know whether contractual obligations meant that a paid beta release was impossible but at the very least the devs should have been honest with their customer base. I bet the reviews would have been more lenient, or possibly the game would not have been reviewed at all until it was actually ready, too.

Yeah? How? What does your crystal ball tell you? BS.


Unfortunately, it seems as though few lessons have been learnt. The dev presence on the forums has all but disappeared resulting in the trust of the community in the dev team trending in the wrong direction. A decade of hard work pretty much blown, and for what?

Have you ever thought in what kind of trouble they are now? Have you ANY respect for another human being? They keep working 6-7 days a week but it still ain`t enough for you, huh?
Nah, but you want the dev team to sit on the forums all day. For what? Reading your stupidity? You figure it would be a better thing instead to WORK ON FIXING THE GAME?
And don`t wipe your face with the community. We are here, we support the devs. We keep reporting bugs, testing the patches, waiting patiently, posting CONSTRUCTIVE STUFF and lending them some money to continue working. WHY IS THIS SO COMPLICATED FOR YOU TO FIGURE OUT?!
Nah, those who help are the community. You are just a person who feels that moaning over a 50 buck video game is the best thing to do in your day.

[jimbop]

Carguy, the vast majority of my posts have been positive but saying that we shouldn't feel shafted over the state of the game just encourages similar behaviour in the future which I don't agree with.

I have made many bug reports etc too. Do you think they are being read by the dev team? I don't, not on this forum anyway and unfortunately I don't speak Russian. Do I think they should sit on the forums all day? Of course not. Should there be at least a single reply commenting on either the last beta or Insuber's excellent bug thread? Yes. What's the point otherwise?

[bongodriver]

when the game is finally fixed will you all still feel 'shafted'?, do your lives rely so much on a computer game that you have to feel this way?

[JG53Frankyboy]

for CoD the bills are paid - ok, official US release has still to come...............

But after this release debacle (my opinion!) im wondering if the prorders for their "Battle of Moskau" will be so good. Fortunatly it will take some time.

[robtek]

When this game-engine is fixed and running there will be no remembering of the hard birth!
As in the old il2, every expansion pack will be fevered for and then immediatly dissected for real and imagined faults!
We wont learn and repeat our actions, that, i believe.

[Gribbers]

I'll probably wait for the US version to be released before I get my copy of CloD...until then I'll tease myself with the otherwise perfect looking Youtube videos of the game...and reverting back to UP3.0...again.

I stopped following the progress of CloD until very late last year, and since then, have logged in on a daily basis for a magical thread stating a new patch has made everything OK and I can now play it on my cr@ppy laptop without any issues :grin:

I can understand the initial moaning from peeps that bought this game within the first couple of days release, they weren't know what was in store, but should feel privileged to be part of the testing process that gets the devs to where they want to be with the product...and the fact they are getting to grips with the flight physics, cockpit dials/switches, engibe management and the map itself before many of us will even have rigs that handle it.

To anyone who bought this game within the last 1-2 months; and who've been reading through this forum over the last 3 months, tough-titties. You should have known what state the game was in, regardless of your rig set up.

I agree that the comms have been non-existent, but having started looking on other 'less negative forums' it really doesn't surprise me if/why they stay away. The devs have been working on this for years and it's not something they're likely to drop, or for that matter, fix in a jiffy...give them [more] time and they'll work it all out alright in the end.

The title of the thread "Patience is a Virtue" shows how un-virtuous some people on this forum can be. If you're going to shelf the game, or wait a while longer then there's really no point in setting up yet another thread to tell the world about it. You know, we know, the devs know...even my Nan knows :rolleyes:

*Logs out and runs away to another forum :-P*

[flyingblind]

I don't think you will ever be able to play it on your 'cr@ppy laptop'. There is a bit more optimisation promised but this was always going to be a resource hungry sim and it always will be. In fact it was stated that features are planned that will tax the highest spec machine. Even now the water is just a place holder - what will happen to fps when the real deal is added?
Sure there seems to be issues with some people having problems getting the game to run whilst others with comparable spec machines have far fewer issues quite apart from general bugs which need fixing. But overall I don't think there will be some magical and massive increase in fps.
Your only options are to turn your settings right down or invest in new hardware which is exactly the way it should be with a new game that intends to be around for the next decade or so.
As numerous posters have pointed out it was years before hardware caught up with the original IL2 series and the majority of players could enjoy it comfortably.

[Chivas]

Sorry, but yet again this is just pure speculation.

Speculation? Do you honestly think the devs willing released the sim in this condition. If the publishers/developers were just interested in screwing people over they would have released the sim world wide and forgot about it. They certainly wouldn't have released COD in the East then continued to work on it 24/7 for the Western release. Especially given all the negative publicity of the Eastern release would obviously create. I know you give the developers very little credit for any intelligence, or integrity, but it must show most people the developers are commitment to the future of the sim.

Yes COD was released before it was finished and most people understand there is alot of work to be done before its finished. Yes let new people know that COD is incomplete, but also let people know that the developers have a history of supporting their product. I don't see the necessity to spam the forums with negativity, although I suppose there would be the opportunity to say I told you so to an empty forum.

[Bryan21cag]

when the game is finally fixed will you all still feel 'shafted'?, do your lives rely so much on a computer game that you have to feel this way?

I cant speak for the rest, but I wont :)

When i can run this game at least near maxed out settings on the kind of computer listed in my SIG with smooth as silk game play in all areas, I will then likely hold it in even higher regard then I currently hold IL246(UP3.0) and ROF :)

Cant wait for this day by the way :) hope it arrives :)

[jimbop]

when the game is finally fixed will you all still feel 'shafted'?, do your lives rely so much on a computer game that you have to feel this way?

I only feel that way about the game, bongodriver, not life generally, believe me! ;)

Don't get me wrong about CoD, it has enormous potential and already runs OK on my specs although very buggy. I will continue to support it when expansions arrive because I can afford to and it is the only thing out there. But I do have a bitter taste in my mouth about the way the community has been dealt with and I hope the expansions are handled differently.

I also really want to see dev involvement with the community increase for bug reporting and status updates. Have you seen these threads? These ideas could provide a tremendously useful resource:

Establishing a "real" issue tracking system? (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=24106)

DevHeaven Issue Tracker (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23235)

[Tree_UK]

Speculation? Do you honestly think the devs willing released the sim in this condition. If the publishers/developers were just interested in screwing people over they would have released the sim world wide and forgot about it. They certainly wouldn't have released COD in the East then continued to work on it 24/7 for the Western release. Especially given all the negative publicity of the Eastern release would obviously create. I know you give the developers very little credit for any intelligence, or integrity, but it must show most people the developers are commitment to the future of the sim.

Yes COD was released before it was finished and most people understand there is alot of work to be done before its finished. Yes let new people know that COD is incomplete, but also let people know that the developers have a history of supporting their product. I don't see the necessity to spam the forums with negativity, although I suppose there would be the opportunity to say I told you so to an empty forum.

Chivas, Im not disagreeing with you entirely on this, but I think it was appalling that the Dev's did not offer some explanation as to the state of CLOD upon release, letting it just slip out knowing the condition it was in in my opinion as done nothing for their reputation. Yes, there may have been pressure from UBI but we can never be sure, but UBI don't control these forums, a simple statement of fact or a heartfelt appeal to us from Luthier would have made a very big difference to how most feel about this product and where it's going.

[Lixma]

Chivas, Im not disagreeing with you entirely on this, but I think it was appalling that the Dev's did not offer some explanation as to the state of CLOD upon release, letting it just slip out knowing the condition it was in in my opinion as done nothing for their reputation. Yes, there may have been pressure from UBI but we can never be sure, but UBI don't control these forums, a simple statement of fact or a heartfelt appeal to us from Luthier would have made a very big difference to how most feel about this product and where it's going.

I imagine UBI would've sued them to hell and back for breach of contract/industrial sabotage (or something). And with every justification. You can't have UBI trying to promote and distribute a game whilst the developers are simultaneously warning people the game's a right mess.

Not an ideal position to be in for Luthier et al on release day but there was little anyone could do other than have UBI shift the release date further back. And seeing the state of CoD on release it appears time had finally run out.

[Opitz]

I waited 3 months to be allowed here again - yes, I've got ban for 3 months... Why? Just search for my posts...

Anyway, I waited long for this, so read fanboys carefully:


I hope you enjoy this brilliant sim...

:-P

[bongodriver]

I waited 3 months to be allowed here again - yes, I've got ban for 3 months... Why? Just search for my posts...

Anyway, I waited long for this, so read fanboys carefully:


I hope you enjoy this brilliant sim...

:-P

What? literally waiting for 3 months by your computer? rocking back and forth?

[Opitz]

hello bongodriver, did you miss me? but let's have some talk before I got banned again...

how much CLOD improved over last three months? I am just curious - is it better, so I should buy it now?

[JG52Krupi]

hello bongodriver, did you miss me? but let's have some talk before I got banned again...

how much CLOD improved over last three months? I am just curious - is it better, so I should buy it now?

It's better but still buggy, sound issues are now my main problem. Crossfire is still not working properly but I still get around 40-50 fps online.

Is it worth a purchase... Definately but you have to be aware that while playable it's only slowly making it way to the great game we all want, I'm confident that it will get there. So yes buy it if you have a good pc and have patience. :D

That's with all settings on high bar building detail. Just don't expect to fly over London with those settings.

[Tree_UK]

hello bongodriver, did you miss me? but let's have some talk before I got banned again...

how much CLOD improved over last three months? I am just curious - is it better, so I should buy it now?

If you mainly fly online (like myself) then I would wait, (sound problems and server issues)Single player works(ish) and you can get familiarised with your aircraft, I know i appear to be negative but this game does have massive potential its just a case of how long it takes to get there.:grin:

[Opitz]

I would give it a try, but I see that price is still the same, and I have a real trouble to accept it...
I know there are some alternatives to buy it for less... but...

[bongodriver]

hello bongodriver, did you miss me? but let's have some talk before I got banned again...

how much CLOD improved over last three months? I am just curious - is it better, so I should buy it now?

I was going to ask the same.....admit it you really couldn't wait to speak with me again ;)

but on a more 'grown up' note, like the above posters, the game is making progress and the forum hasn't changed.

I find it surprising cost is an issue, I'm not exactly rich but I will buy every flight sim I can because it's a hobby, most people will spend money on their hobby.

[jimbop]

It's worth it for offline play now as long as you are comfortable using the FMB (which isn't that hard). Should wait a couple of months for online until sound fixed though.

[MadBlaster]

Hi Opitz. I'm wondering. Has anyone offered you small bribe to take down your Hitler CLoD video on YouTube? I'm just curious as I'm working out at strategy to offer to the new community organizer for re-release of CLoD after the beta phase. Basically it would involve deletion of all negative posts around the globe, including this forum, only to be reborn into beautiful pheonix called the Battle of Britian, Storm of War...i.e., the game we all want with new forum and postings of happy stuff.

[Opitz]

MadBlaster,

video is still up = bribes were too small... :)

[MadBlaster]

MadBlaster,

video is still up = bribes were too small... :)


Ok. Thankz. I keep u on "The List". As long as you signed the STEAM user agreement, no worries. Right??? Now off to dig some holes. Plant some stuff.:cool:

[Opitz]

:grin::grin:

[Bryan21cag]

MadBlaster,

video is still up = bribes were too small... :)

oh yea forgot about that video, just went and watched it again and nothing to say but pure comic genius sir :)

I belly laugh when the girl starts crying and the other one says don't worry they will ban them.:) Pure hilarity lol
thanks again for that:)

Cheers:)

[Chivas]

Chivas, Im not disagreeing with you entirely on this, but I think it was appalling that the Dev's did not offer some explanation as to the state of CLOD upon release, letting it just slip out knowing the condition it was in in my opinion as done nothing for their reputation. Yes, there may have been pressure from UBI but we can never be sure, but UBI don't control these forums, a simple statement of fact or a heartfelt appeal to us from Luthier would have made a very big difference to how most feel about this product and where it's going.

Luthier did say in one of his posts that everyone has a right to be totally pissed at the condition of the sim. That said the developer was between a rock and hard place before release. Letting the customer know exactly how incomplete the sim was could have been catastrophic. Many people could have held off buying, effectively killing the sim. Atleast now there is enough monies generated to keep Luthier and team in business, hopefully long after the US release. Although I think the sales numbers of the US release will have to be strong to warrant further work on the sim. If the developer can weather this storm we should be seeing patches and new theaters for many more years.

I'm not saying its right, but the ROF developers also had to release their sim in a very incomplete state without warning their customers. They have been able to weather the storm without to much blow back from their customers. I'm afraid that todays combat flight sims are far to complex to develop in a affordable time frame. Maybe if everything went perfectly, it could be done, but that rarely happens.

[JG52Krupi]

Very well said Chivas, let's hope people listen to your wise words.

[carguy_]

Luthier did say in one of his posts that everyone has a right to be totally pissed at the condition of the sim. That said the developer was between a rock and hard place before release. Letting the customer know exactly how incomplete the sim was could have been catastrophic. Many people could have held off buying, effectively killing the sim. Atleast now there is enough monies generated to keep Luthier and team in business, hopefully long after the US release. Although I think the sales numbers of the US release will have to be strong to warrant further work on the sim. If the developer can weather this storm we should be seeing patches and new theaters for many more years.

That is exactly the case. I know I would hold off if such info broke loose. I did exactly that with the epilepsy filter which was my no 1 complaint. It went away. Now when I bought the game it was pretty bad, but not nearly as bad as many whiners were saying. Still playable to a satisying degree. Few weeks later the fps doubled and I was able to go sightseeing. It was a fair deal from the start.

[=FI=Scott]

Gamers are like voters in that the majority of them have very short memories. If the issues in this game can be successfully addressed a year or two down the line it will be a popular title.

My interest is in whether the current development team has the legs in it to impliment those necessary fixes and refinements or whether it will be the modding community who ultimately do it.

I know that as it stands I can't fly CoD with my squad mates online (we have limited times to fly and people who don't have uber PC's so have decided not to take up CoD as a squad). As I have neither the knowledge or the time to learn the FMB the current available offline content is very limited. I lost my pitchfork ages ago so its a case of wait or.....well....wait.

I have a good deal of symapathy for Luthier and crew. With the best of intentions they created a (powerful) Frankenstein's monster and its chasing them round the countryside now.

[Sammi79]

I read through all the reviews I could find, I read all the pro/con posts I could find here and at other sites before I purchased. I therefore knew that content (missions+campaigns) was sparse - but I also knew that it included the FMB. I knew it was resource heavy and had plenty of bugs. After all this reading and there was quite a bit, I came to the conclusion that the CoD FM/DM was probably the most realistic physical simulation of WWII combat aircraft available at this time for home computing. So, I purchased for £30 from steam. I have not been dissapointed. Luckily, most reported bugs don't appear on my system, though I have not tried online play yet. I am happy in the knowledge that 1C will continue to work towards fixing und expanding this product.

Last year I bought Silent Hunter V from guess who? UBIsoft again. Now that was a different story. 2 patches then the dev team was split, as they were employees of UBIsoft Romania (which is essentially just ubisoft). Vanilla game didn't even have a compass!?!? which unfortunately was probably the smallest of its faults. The community who followed the series carried on even knowing that there was nothing more to come from the dev team, and 1 year later, with heavy modding, it can be turned into the most complete and realistic diesel electric submersible simulation available to home computing. (it is still not without its faults and I for one have given up on it for now)

It seems to me that UBIsoft as a publisher is pressing developers for quick development, forcing unmoveable deadlines, and cutting the support once the product (because of its rushed unfinishedness) doesn't sell too well. I can understand from a business point of view, but I don't like it. Still, I'm sure they'd change their ways if they read this... yeah right. I have complete faith in 1C their communications have been adequate IMHO and their promises stand. IL2 CoD will have the support from the dev team and the community and this and time is all that is required.

P.S. can't wait for some DLC aircraft, lets see some heavy bombers and some maps of the rest of Europe! I would pay handsomely for a Lancaster. Or Halifax. Could be balanced out against some Luftwaffe Jets for the Axis?