What should the next 'new' aircraft be to fly?Rather than variants of existing Models

[Mysticpuma]

I'm wondering what players would like to see as the next 'new' flyable aircraft rather than say a Spitfire MkV or a 109-F4 for example. Also, after reading Thors point below, I'll add to the mix, what model (Ship, Transport, Artillery) would users like to see too?

That is not to say they don't have a place later, but I wonder what truly new model of aircraft players would like to be able to fly in the current battle era played out in CloD?

My personal choice would be a B-24 for Coastal Command:

http://www.number59.com/new_59/liberator.html

from the above link:

"The first "fully operational" Liberators, were 20 LB-30B's which were built for the USAAC but were diverted to the UK and first saw action with the RAF as the "Mk I" serial numbers AM910 - AM929. Number 120 Sqn Coastal Command began operations with the Mk.I's in Sept of 1941"

I think this fits nicely into the period and would also allow wide-ranging missions with Submarine and ship attack.

I'd like to here what others think would be suitable additions, but not variants of current models. If possible a reason why it should be included too?

Cheers, MP

[csThor]

How about we let Maddox Games work on turning CloD into a flight sim as opposed to the rather raw engine it is now? I really think there's a lof of work left to do even for 3D modellers. There is a number of ship types that would be really useful for the first phase of the Battle of Britain, cargo ships and warships alike, and then there are a few ground objects I miss (i.e. german 15cm sFH 18 howitzer, british artillery, MG 34 as light and heavy MG, Bren MG, perhaps soldiers for the trenches etc etc).

Besides why introducing an american aircraft when aircraft such as the Wellington and Do 17 Z aren't flyable? ;)

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

I would love to fly the Wellington,that would be my first choice,the Dornier Do17 would be my second choice,but I know these are pipe dreams.

I read somewhere that it takes an age to recreate the workable cockpits as they are in COD so we'll keep on dreaming eh.

[Mysticpuma]

How about we let Maddox Games work on turning CloD into a flight sim as opposed to the rather raw engine it is now? I really think there's a lof of work left to do even for 3D modellers. There is a number of ship types that would be really useful for the first phase of the Battle of Britain, cargo ships and warships alike, and then there are a few ground objects I miss (i.e. german 15cm sFH 18 howitzer, british artillery, MG 34 as light and heavy MG, Bren MG, perhaps soldiers for the trenches etc etc).

Besides why introducing an american aircraft when aircraft such as the Wellington and Do 17 Z aren't flyable? ;)

Agree totally with your opinion Thor, and that is why I should have said useable rather than flyable model.

The reason I went for the B-24 was the variety of missions that could be carried out in the seas around 'Blighty' which seem to be very playable on frame-rates. Also the Do is an existing model that could be made flyable rather than a new model.

I also have to concede the point that without ships there wont be much for Coastal Command to do! So fair point.

I'm just thinking of the future and what it may bring. Still it will be interesting to see what models users would be interested to see.

Cheers, MP

[baronWastelan]

Ju 52/ 3m

[SNAFU]

AFAIK, were the Do17, He111, Ju88 operated from airfileds, which are not even on the current map, I guess same is to say for Blenheims, Wellingtons and other long range stuff. Though I would love to have a He115 or Sunderland for SAR operations, I think it takes at current pace at least 9 month to have the current content doing as it is supposed to do.

But anyhow in my opinion is the map still too small for anything having more than 1 engine. :cool:

[Blackdog_kt]

First of all, i think this is just a nice brainstorming session since there's much to be fixed in the sim.
However, that doesn't mean we can't get some ideas rolling, it's good, creative and might give both us and the developers some pointers on stuff that will enhance gameplay and sales, so that they can include it in a future update/expansion or we can get to grips with it once the SDK is released (if we can "build" new flyable aircraft).

With that out of the way, here are my suggestions for the future.

I'm not entirely sure if they were in service during the BoB, but i'm a big fan of the Catalina.
It would be masochistic to fly in multiplayer for sure: cruising at 120 mph only to be summarily shot down once contact with the enemy is made :-P

However, it has a lot of versatility, good weapon loads, the possibility for easy to make updates in the future with a lot of subtypes (amphibian or pure flying boat with beaching gear, bombs or torpedoes and later in the war cool stuff like radar and leigh light searchlights for spotting U-boats, etc) and would be a blast to fly in multiplayer with a human crew.

It's also challenging in terms of CEM (even today it's not certified to fly with one pilot) and would be a blast to fly in bad weather once the dynamic weather feature is patched into the sim, because for an aircraft that served so much time in adverse weather conditions it used to have some pretty pitiful de-icing equipment. It's a crap-plane extraordinaire with interesting load outs, huge usage in many theaters and multi-crew capability, what more is there to ask for? :-P

It was a true workhorse with a big supporting role in some of the war's most vital aspects (the U-boat threat and battle of the atlantic) and also turned around some engagements that were considered pretty major, either due to tactical/strategic impact or simply due to morale/propaganda value. For example, i think it was a Catalina that spotted the Bismark and enabled the Swordfish to mount their attack that damaged its rudders and rendered it helpless.

Which brings us to the second one, the Swordfish. This is another one of those obsolete aircraft that still managed to soldier on until the end of the war, by switching around its role and making use of its simple to use and maintain nature. This one would be like flying a tiger moth with bombs, it has a fixed pitch prop so CEM would be pretty easy and it also comes in interesting variations and loadouts as the war progresses: floatplane variants for the Mk.I, rockets on the Mk.II, radar on the Mk.III, flying with three crewmen or substituting the navigator/observer for an extra fuel tank, etc.

The swordfish was too a big part of the U-boat hunting forces and that's why it kept serving until the end (there were no 109s in the middle of the atlantic where it operated from "carriers" that were little more than converted merchant ships), it was used during some very high profile, iconic raids and it even took part in the channel dash operations trying to attack the German warships running the gauntlet (with disastrous results, it was what prompted their change of role from anti-ship to anti-submarine).


On another note, both of these types also saw service in the pacific so it's like killing two birds with one stone if they are modeled, three birds if you count the possibility of a mediterranean expansion (taranto raid, Libya raids) etc.

During the Bob timeframe both of these types would probably be used more in coastal command type missions, but i think i read that Swordfish were also active in bombing raids during the Dunkirk evacuation, trying to support the troops on the ground. It also comes with floats too and i'm big fan of anything that can land on water.


For the axis now i'm not really sure what could be added, maybe it's just easier to suggest converting some existing AI-only aircraft into flyables. I would like a flyable He-115 for example and having the Do-17/215 would be awesome too, but i don't know what else could be used in a scenario taking place during the BoB.

The good thing is that these would have an almost immediate practical impact in terms of gameplay, while the catalina and swordfish would need a supporting framework of some sort of specific campaign (maybe requiring use of scripting) for single player or organized online campaign for multiplayer that makes them useful: eg, having an online campaign engine that tracks available supplies, so that it would actually make sense to protect your ships from U-boats, having the ability to rescue pilots ditching in the channel or capturing enemy ones, so that you can return them to your team's pool or deplete the opponent's one when flying online, etc.


I've got loads and loads of ideas about what i'd like to see in the future but most of it is 1942 and onwards. I've been waiting for years for some night fighter action, i'm a big fan of multi-role birds like the Ju88 and the mosquito (superbly versatile aircraft with loads and loads of different missions one could come up with for them) and it would be awesome to be flying combined ops with some mossies and typhoons as the main rhubarb force and a couple of Mustang IIIs as "picket ships" to fly higher, check things out and run some interference if the need arises.

However, all that is a long way off for now, so i'll just stick to my initial suggestions that actually have some relevance to the BoB/BoF timeframe. This is also why i don't want to lose the two-stage prop variants of RAF fighters even if we get the corrected ones for BoB, we already have a big map and they could be still used for battle of France scenarios.

I'll stop here before i get completely carried away and start fantasizing about how i would do a dynamic campaign engine :grin:

[Skoshi Tiger]

How about an early P-40 for the army cooperation role? It would lead into the desert war and lend lease for the Russian campaigns!


Cheers

[Feathered_IV]

Storch would be nice. Going from A to B and sightseeing is about all there really is to do.

[drewpee]

FW190:grin:

[Ze-Jamz]

Swordfish would be cool, add that to alot more ships and youve got a diff spin on this sim straight away...

that scenario with the FX this game has would be something else

[Ze-Jamz]

Oh and Mystic..

Whens the next Checkers coming out? :cool:

[JG53Frankyboy]

this is still a BoB scenario , and the new IL2 series should stay sceanrio based !
Not like the old IL2 series that peppered the planes from 1939 to 45 and around the world :( - leaving a lot of holes in the specific scenarios.

As said, my No1 would be a flyable Wellington or Hampden. And than the Do17Z would be nice as flyable.
I have mainly online wars_/events in mind with this , the Blenheim as only flyable RAF bomber so far, is not such a 'bomber beast' with its 1000lb :D

As ships, something like the Black Swan Sloop class for the RN and a normal freighter would be nice. I dont need special groundtargets anymore in this scenario tbh .... perhaps markings on the static aircraft ;)

[sigintwarrior]

I would like to see a D.520 with a Battle of France campaign. After they fix the rest of the stuff first though.
6488

[Mysticpuma]

Oh and Mystic..

Whens the next Checkers coming out? :cool:

January 2012 and it will be about 2 hours 20 minutes long ;)

Nice list of suggestions so-far chaps. I suppose my main thought process for the current time-frame of CloD is pretty much keeping the Axis at bay, which is why I considered Coastal Command aircraft/missions as a priority, this would of-course require Submarines and also Shipping, so in essence a 'complete' package or patch to add this to it.

I have to be honest and say I haven't so-far been impressed by the CloD release, however what is done is done and if the current patching carries on with Forum Beta testing support, the future can only get better. There is no need to keep bleating about it, the truth is, if there is a chance to utilise the basic fundamental flight and damage models, this does have the chance to come off life support and grow into a well rounded adult, s good luck to the developers.

However, once that is done, it would be interesting to see what the future developments of add-ons could possibly hold and for that reason I am asking what models could be added but with justification for the reason to add them.

So the Swordfish, Catalina, B-24, Beaufort all have a place in Coastal Command which flew many missions against the Axis shipping, Submarines and ports on the edge of Europe and therefore justify the possible inclusion (not Beaufort) in future updates for what they did during this period.

I should add, typing FW-190 doesn't give a reason why it should be seen as a priority?

Going back to Blackdog's suggestion of the Catalina, this has many and varied missions that could be available to it but one I think which would be intense as-well as being intriguing could be a search for a downed air crew?

You are given a heading a rough location and then you have to rescue three/four or five members of a downed crew in a time-limit as the sun sets and visibility diminishes. You have to look out for torches, flares, inflatable boats or life-jacket, debris on the surface, all of which give you markers that you are in the correct area.

As Blackdog said, there are many, many opportunities for missions so lets here your ideas with justification for inclusion.

Cheers, MP

[JG53Frankyboy]

the next adon will most propably the memntioned "Battle of Moskau" - that means a timeframe late 1941 to early 42, eastern front:
possible planes (no coplete list for sure ! :) )
Bf109F-2 (perhaps -4)
Bf109E-7/B
Bf110E
Hs123
Hs126
Ju87B/D
He111H
Ju88A-5, -4
I-16
I-153
MiG-3
Yak-1
LaGG-3
P-40B/C
R-5
IL-2 (single seaters)
Pe-2 , -3
DB-3
SB-2

i doubt there will be intermediate AdOns for the new IL2 series to sell planes for another scenario on a given map (like Dieppe 42)!
Hopefully there will be some free adon planes in needed patches....but i guess far of the amount as in the old IL" series . These times are over.


IMHO, 1C should give the RAF one more flyable bomber , as the Wellington is there already as AI, use the Wellington (even if my persoanl favorite would be a Hampden !). Make a Bf109E-4 and E-1 ( should be not so difficult) ad a Hurricane Mk.II , sure fix all the stuff in game ( :D ) and than soldier on to the next Full AdOn , the mentioned eastern front scenario !

[csThor]

I agree with Franky when he says the additions to the Il-2 CloD line should be scenario-based. The often "disconnected" way of choosing additions to the planepool we saw in the original Il-2 line was something I did not like one bit. For me it brought nothing but disappointment, frustration and it did blow up my installation with a load of hangar queens which I rarely used at all.

At the moment I hope for three aircraft to be included: Bf 109 E-1, Bf 109 E-4 and Ju 52 3m (as baronWastelan pointed out - how could I have missed that type?). All three would have significant impact on gameplay (or in the latter case would simply be a much needed addition).
But to be honest I would postpone all three (or any others, for that matter) for significant additions to the game engine in the gameplay aspect. Maddox Games does not only need to fix the many large and small issues of the engine but also fix the FMB (right now I can't use certain objects without encountering almost-CTDs), add a campaign module that is worth the title (with rank structure, medals, roster etc) and - I mean we're all dreaming here - a really good dynamic campaign module that doesn't want to be a strategy game but follows the line of the classic Red Baron II campaign system (or, of newer date, RoF). It would need to be flexible enough to be able to depict very different theaters with very different styles of air war (East & early North Africa vs West & late MTO), really puts the air forces into the role they really played and doesn't force the player to be both pilot and warlord.

EDIT: Franky it's just Bf 109 E-7. Only E-1, E-3 and E-4 featured the suffix /b when they were modified for carrying bombs. The E-7 is just the factory standard which incorporated all those changes. ;)

[No145_Hatter]

Fairey Battle

[JG53Frankyboy]

........................EDIT: Franky it's just Bf 109 E-7. Only E-1, E-3 and E-4 featured the suffix /b when they were modified for carrying bombs. The E-7 is just the factory standard which incorporated all those changes. ;)

COPY, sir :)
it was a try to point out, that Emils in the Moskau area were only flown as fighterbombers , by II(Schlacht)/LG2 that became I./SchG1 in january 42 AFAIK

[the Dutchman]

It's a variant,yes................

http://www.military-times.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Bristoo-beaufort-art-copy.jpg

[Seeker]

I don't want any new planes from 1C, they can't be trusted to do them properly (six years and not ONE plane done right!)

I want better interfaces, functions that work, and above all, a dynamic mission generator.

I'd prefer mods for every thing else, they're a higher quality, lower lead time and more responsive developers.

[Danelov]

Only for the future(a lot of work still with the actual fleet to fix and work with), planes of the periode: Defiant, Gladiator, Wellington and in the other side Bf 109E-1, Bf 109E-4 , Bf 110D-0, with the ventral tank like the utilised by Luftflotte V with the I./ZG 76, a Bf 110C-6 with the 30mm cannon like some planes utilised by the Erp.Gr 210, one high altitude recco Ju-86 and one floatplane He 59 Seenodienst.

[ElAurens]

Curtiss Hawk 75 for the French for pre BoB work, and later for the SAAF in the desert.

Curtiss P40, for the desert.

Macchi MC 200, again for the desert.

Also flyable Gladiator for early work in the desert.

I guess you can see where I'm going with this...

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg838/scaled.php?server=838&filename=tr000978kittyhawk.jpg&res=medium

[Stealth_Eagle]

I'd prefer mods for every thing else, they're a higher quality, lower lead time and more responsive developers.

You call mods high quality? You should really think twice before saying that. I have run IL-2 clean of mods since of their poor quality. For example, the flyable B17 is pretty much a rip off of the Maddox B-25 cockpit and the PE 8 mod flyable has repeated cockpits. Examples include He 111 and PE 2 use in the cockpit of the PE 8

The high quality mods are few and far between which some of them get implemented in the actual game. They may have better response time but do they put the "true" time and effort into the mods that are much poorer quality. IMHO, modded sounds sound unfull and very cheesy compared to stock.


My suggestion for the Maddox games next aircraft are to be what they want to do. If I had a choice, I want a Med theme.

[CWMV]

You call mods high quality? You should really think twice before saying that. I have run IL-2 clean of mods since of their poor quality. For example, the flyable B17 is pretty much a rip off of the Maddox B-25 cockpit and the PE 8 mod flyable has repeated cockpits. Examples include He 111 and PE 2 use in the cockpit of the PE 8

The high quality mods are few and far between which some of them get implemented in the actual game. They may have better response time but do they put the "true" time and effort into the mods that are much poorer quality. IMHO, modded sounds sound unfull and very cheesy compared to stock.


My suggestion for the Maddox games next aircraft are to be what they want to do. If I had a choice, I want a Med theme.

FW-190
/thread.

Now seriously guy, have you ever heard Jaffa's sounds? have you seen the new 3d models for the 109 pack and the stuff underdevelopment for the upcoming 190 pack? All of them shame the stock models, or rather update the antiquated stock versions.
Not all mods are great, but some are simply vital to any sense of reality.

[Thee_oddball]

I heard we are getting a secret experimental British bomber :)

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_SFUSvzV-UZg/TdN0jdyVphI/AAAAAAAAA6E/oy6IF_bWTO4/2011-05-18_00002.jpg

[proton45]

Some version (or Mark, if you will) of the The Curtiss P-40 Warhawk...

[hiro]

+1 on making the game solid and current set flyable to a high degree of quality we're used to.

+ moar on "I Want more sea planes" provided they fit to BOB.

[Strike]

Heinel Lerche











... sorry you asked for it :D


On a more serious note, the P-40 would rock as an early taste of "american" air power :D I'd love to see what 6x .50 cals do to CloD's damage model :P

[rhinomonkey]

for me it would be the gladiator as it saw action in the bob and it would be useful for any future desert or Mediterranean action

[mattebubben]

Would love if they added the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 (410).
http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/12/70/91/25/morane10.jpg

[Timberwolf]

First i have to say this before i say that : Fix what we have . I still don't like the feel of flying. To me it feels "choppy" or 2d rather then smooth The spit flys like the 109 The 109 flys like a JU88 etc Speed feels slow and climbs take forever..

Anyways that said : Forget about russian / usa planes
Add in the Halifax bomber Beaufort torpedo-bomber /Ar196 floatplanes FW200 "Condor"

BOB was not only a Air war But also a shipping lines war Many cargo ships were in used to send arms and raw mats, to England ..Recon planes on both sides were used

If the game later wants a twist and add-in the push back of the Luftwaffle 1941-1945

My ideas would be to start with ( Note many of these planes are not in lots of war sims or games )

Short Stirling, Handley Page Halifax , Canso, Fairey Battle light bombers

My fav is the Tempest but served close to the end of the war

[firehawk66]

Since someone mentioned Army Co-operation aircraft, I would love to see the much forgotten Mustang I,Ia,II.

[Richie]

I would like to see a Do-24 sea plane but I agree that the sim should be made ship-shape first.

[Rickusty]

Would love if they added the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 (410).
http://i60.servimg.com/u/f60/12/70/91/25/morane10.jpg

Idem

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

I agree with Timberwolf,let's see the Stirlings,Halifax's and Fairey Battle's take to the skies in COD,these are missing from this time period.

[Gourmand]

Would love if they added the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 (410)
Idem.
+1 ;)

[ElAurens]

Finland had some.

But the main thrust would be the Battle of France.

[Vierzinger]

Bf109E-4
BoB without the -4 is like BoB without a Spitfire :rolleyes:

Making more of the non-flyable a/c have cockpits would be a nice idear.
The British are underrepresented, so the Wellington might be a good idear.
Or the Beaufighter and the ability to carry bombs.

[skouras]

Bf109E-4
BoB without the -4 is like BoB without a Spitfire :rolleyes:

Making more of the non-flyable a/c have cockpits would be a nice idear.
The British are underrepresented, so the Wellington might be a good idear.
Or the Beaufighter and the ability to carry bombs.

agree
the E-4 is a must

[Plt Off JRB Meaker]

Totally agree here too,in fact I was quite surprised that it was'nt part of the initial build of COD.

[TomcatViP]

Beaufighter for the Brits

109F for the Germans

That way using the same map we could hve hit and run, coastal anti-shipping and sweeps missions for the late 40 and 1941 time period. It would let time for devs to make a high quality desert map :-)

Spit would hve to switch gradually to canons (with a serious mkII). WHy not using steam update to release and erase the canon spits/109F occasionally from the game to emulate the erratic logistic chain ?

Players that would like to keep their favorite mount would learn quickly how to keep a spare copy of the files needed for that without being able to log on participating servers through Steam.

~S!