Oleg's dream

[SlipBall]

I was wondering to myself what the hell happened with the whole SOW dream. I think that the third party interest that Oleg had hoped for did not materilize, causing himself to loose interest and go to pursue other adventures. Without his supervision, perfectionism, I don't see a very bright future for cod:grin:...hope I'm wrong

[Shado]

I bet It all went wrong when Ubi got involved, thats when it turned SOWer, :rolleyes:

I hope your wrong too SlipBall :)

[pupo162]

you are wrong.

no evidence. just faith.

[Honeymonster]

Maybe the constant negative threads don't help?

Just a thought...

Anything broken can be fixed with the right kind of support.

Maybe if we constantly moan and whine at the devs they will get disheartened and we will loose what could be one of the greatest sims to date. But maybe if we just let them know what is broken and have a little patience the wounded bird will fly again and eventually become a swan...

This is the dream of many not of just one man.

[Danelov]

The future is the fishing simulator:grin:

[Thee_oddball]

The future is the fishing simulator:grin:
ok...thats just lazy...is sitting next to a lake with a cooler full of beer that taxing? :mrgreen:

[proton45]

I was wondering to myself what the hell happened with the whole SOW dream. I think that the third party interest that Oleg had hoped for did not materilize, causing himself to loose interest and go to pursue other adventures. Without his supervision, perfectionism, I don't see a very bright future for cod:grin:...hope I'm wrong

Yea...the "heart" of the community seems to be non existent. If you show any kind of support for the development team, or what Oleg has done...people brand you a "kiss arse", or a "follower", or whatever it is that negative people say.

[machoo]

Realistically we'd be waiting another year atleast if they were all still incharge. Ubisoft were probably pissed that they were paying these blokes with no light at the end of the tunnel. Ubisoft wanted some return from there investment. Hence "Release the f**king thing!" order.

[Feathered_IV]

I think he bit off more than MG could comfortably chew. CoD became overdesigned and top heavy with complex features. He got off track between the need to make a simulator, and the urge to make a replica.

It was never Olegs way to admit an error or to back down in the face of public opinion (the 190 bar is still right and Il-2's sound is excellent, it's just our sound system that is wrong etc.). So when CoD began to look like it needed fundamental changes at a core level, he headed for the door.

[Pudfark]

I'm not too proud...to admit...that it seems, I've been had....with this "release".
All I know?
Is what is not being "said" by those who are responsible for taking my money and their apparent "lackadaisical" attitude in communicating and fixing the problem rapidly.

Yup, I freely and voluntarily spent my money on this "sim"...and with that in mind and wallet, I have freely expressed my opinion here...

Maddox left and Madhoff is in jail.....hmmm

Point to ponder: If you're hosing somebody? Say something nice, that they
want to hear.....and you can ride'm a bit longer.....

[Chivas]

I was wondering to myself what the hell happened with the whole SOW dream. I think that the third party interest that Oleg had hoped for did not materialize, causing himself to loose interest and go to pursue other adventures. Without his supervision, perfectionism, I don't see a very bright future for cod:grin:...hope I'm wrong

Its way to early for most third parties to become involved, although the Battle for Moscow is a third party addon. COD and the game engine simply aren't finished or fine tuned yet so third parties won't become fully involved for another year or so.

Oleg certainly would never have released COD in the shape its in if he had final word, but the publisher held the purse strings and had final call. It could be one of the many reasons that Oleg has taken a step back from fronting the development.

That said their is still a very strong possiblility the issues will be resolved, and the new series will live even longer than the original IL-2 series. When the mod tools are released there will be much stronger support from the mod community than IL-2 ever had.

[Robert]

Are you REALLY going to compare Madoff with Maddox?

You shoulda kept your 50 bucks. Sounds like you need it. And just because Luthier is not on his knees felating you weekly doesn't mean he's not working on a patch.

[machoo]

Who is Madhoff?

[Feathered_IV]

He's a guy who uses the pyramid-scheme method of fraud. Any link to Oleg Maddox is purely through a covenient rhyme in surnames. Anything else is hysterical nonsense.

[jctrnacty]

I am still hoping that Oleg will return and finish what he begun.

The only problem i see is he relied too much on ubisoft as a publusher instead of this he should release the SOW directly to all sim fans like ED and ROF teams do.

ED split with ubisoft a long time ago and they are doing well.

He could fund the upcoming development with selling flyable aircrafts like ROF do.

[csThor]

You people have a totally wrong impression of what Oleg was and what he could do. Maddox Games was and is just a very small branch of the juggernaut 1C. 1C is comparable in size with EA, just to give you an idea of the dimensions involved. As such Oleg never had that much say when it came to whom 1C deals with. And he certainly never had the freedom to decide to give Ubi a kick in the hinder and publish things alone - those things were decided by people with a lot more say within 1C. He was certainly asked, but in the end it was not his voice that mattered.

[JimmyBlonde]

Uhhh aren't we forgetting that this game is in its' infancy.

Third-parties don't even know how it works yet so how are they supposed to contribute when even the developers of the software are still struggling to tame it?

Sorry, but I find this thread to be irrational and excessively premature. It's now a fact of life that games develop as they grow older, get used to it and learn to love it because the upshot of this is that we end up with an evolving product which, hopefully, improves rather than a static one that doesn't.

[Feuerfalke]

Yea...the "heart" of the community seems to be non existent. If you show any kind of support for the development team, or what Oleg has done...people brand you a "kiss arse", or a "follower", or whatever it is that negative people say.

They did so before. That didn't change.

Difference now is, that you ask yourself, why you should still show your support.

[Feuerfalke]

I bet It all went wrong when Ubi got involved...

Are you saying, it went wrong when the original IL2 was produced? UBI got involved in IL2-development over 12 years ago, so that's exactly what you just said.

Well, anyway, I wonder how people can still delude themselves thinking UBI is the big-bad-devilish-dark-evil company wrecking this release, so they can cheer fanatically and celebrate their unholy orgies over loosing a *lot* of money...... :rolleyes:

[HamishUK]

It amazes me that the blame is apportioned to Ubisoft.

I also get the feeling 1C had a major hand in the reelase too. After all they also need the cash!

[Foo'bar]

This time UBI are the good guys. Why things went to what we have today is resposibility of 1C:Softclub.

[Feathered_IV]

This time UBI are the good guys. Why things went to what we have today is resposibility of 1C:Softclub.

How so?

[csThor]

"Corporate restructuring" I believe was the phrase used. Translation: too many suits, too many beancounters, too little creative freedom. That's what the grapevine said.

[SlipBall]

I think he bit off more than MG could comfortably chew. CoD became overdesigned and top heavy with complex features. He got off track between the need to make a simulator, and the urge to make a replica.

It was never Olegs way to admit an error or to back down in the face of public opinion (the 190 bar is still right and Il-2's sound is excellent, it's just our sound system that is wrong etc.). So when CoD began to look like it needed fundamental changes at a core level, he headed for the door.



That sounds the most plausible I guess, pity the way things turned out for now.:grin:

[RocketDog]

It's pretty clear that the project was mishandled from within the CloD dev team. They seem to have greatly underestimated the amount of work involved in completing all the game elements they wanted and eventually just exhausted 1C/Ubisoft's patience, resulting in them being told to get some sort of bare-bones product out the door and try and deliver at least some income - even if a lot of things were unfinished. That would explain how we ended up with highly-detailed tanks, but a lime-green England and broken or poor FSAA/campaign/weather/sounds etc.

My guess is that Maddox just wasn't equal to the task of managing development and was asked to leave so someone else could take over. I suppose the buck ultimately stops with 1C, who should have removed him from the project earlier, or at least got someone with project management expertise put in the team to take charge of development.

All speculation, of course, but I think it's a likely explanation.

[Baron]

It's pretty clear that the project was mishandled from within the CloD dev team. They seem to have greatly underestimated the amount of work involved in completing all the game elements THEY wanted and eventually just exhausted 1C/Ubisoft's patience, resulting in them being told to get some sort of bare-bones product out the door and try and deliver at least some income - even if a lot of things were unfinished. That would explain how we ended up with highly-detailed tanks, but a lime-green England and broken or poor FSAA/campaign/weather/sounds etc.

My guess is that Maddox just wasn't equal to the task of managing development and was asked to leave so someone else could take over. I suppose the buck ultimately stops with 1C, who should have removed him from the project earlier, or at least got someone with project management expertise put in the team to take charge of development.

All speculation, of course, but I think it's a likely explanation.

They? They? You are joking, right?

Theese freeking forums wouldnt back of from ANYTHING until Oleg and team bend t over and did as they where told regarding every little FREEKING detail, and i do mean EVERY detail. Changing colour of grass (witch, needless to say, came out wrong all the same, naturally, according to those who "knows") doesnt take any time what so ever, does it? Markings, correct size, font and colour of course, on all planes, at the EXACT right spot, dont worry, done in a jiffy. Correct crop marks, no sweat. Clickable cockpit? Sure why not, i`ll do it during my coffee break. Pilot headsize, colour of engine flames, dhu, of course WE know best. Antennas 1 m to far to the front? Do it again and do it right.Dynamic weather? sure, give me, but if i cant run it on my P4 i want my money back or ill report it as a fail/bug/broken to everyone and anyone who will listen, even to those who have better things to do (afaik the dynamic weather isnt broken). Dynamic lighting, why, everyone else is using it so it can take any time, can it? etc. etc. etc ad nauseum. Doesnt matter, what time spent on it, it still comes out wrong according to all the experts. (Honestly, i dont even understand why they bother). Never ever could the team reveal a new feature without it beeing followed by sh*t storm of expert opinions that wouldnt take no for an answer. And it still continuous to this day with the patches. (not talking about adult bug reporting, im talking whining and bitching "i want my money back" mentality) Because u do know, that if it doesnt work on MY pc the game is broken/buggy and needs to be set on fire and forgotten by EVERYONE, right? Doesnt matter if i cant get it to work on lap top (jesus) its still a bust i tell u.

What many of u fail to understand is that this criticism of CoD has been going on for years, literally, and the buggy, like most completely new releases (No, its not warmed over IL2 Sturmovik and if u think that i cant be bothered with "u") was only the straw that broke the camels back. It would have been a lot less buggy, if the community would have been kept out of the loop like in most game developments. Alot less "essential" features = more time to what really counts, "eye candy" can be added/tweaked later.

Iv come to realize that a lot of people here and at other CoD forums isnt happy unless there is something to give "constructive criticism" about, ABOUT EVERYTHING.

Oleg`s/dev teams problem, more than anything, is listening way to much to the community. AFTER the game was released, that would be fine, but not during critical development.

But you are right, Oleg and team promised/wanted to much because they wanted to please the IL2 community. The thing is, that u and everyone thinking the same, actually hold this against them when it didnt turn out as everyone hoped, and that, in my book, is the lowest of low. (sry if it comes across as an insult, really isnt directed at u personally)

So, please, get back to reality. (not just u) The more "real" we want it the more buggy/complicated its gonna be and the more time it takes. Is that something that needs to be said, or is hard to understand? (if u or anyone respond with anything even remotly tuching the subject of AA or FSAA for ex., ill scream. Try looking at the big picture and how everything is connected before responding with something thats been said a gazillion times allredy)

Just for once i wich people would look at what we DO have but something tells me that alot of it is way over their heads in term of complexity so its completely missed or seen as a "given" (comparing BF3 or god knows what else with CoD kind of reinforces that feeling). Instead, look at what we have compared to what we had before, IL2 (not counting bugs thats not really a suprise they are there this early to begin with and lets face it, IL2 is far from perfect or bug free) and not what "you`r" head thought/wished it would be after all these years of fantasising. RoF for ex, was faaaar from perfect on release. its taken them 2, count them, 2 years getting a descent campaign working.

At this point it doesnt matter one bit that u people think u have been "cheated" into buying a beta, cold hard truth i know, but if it really pains u that much to have this game on your pc, remove it and pretend it hasnt been released yet and let those who at least appreciate getting to see the game first hand instead of through friday updates (witch, in all honesty, only gave us headaches) after waiting 5 years, instead of having to hear endless complaints about not being released yet, do thire "thing" so we can get somewhere, anywhere but at this point in time = a Cod we all want.

It takes time, doesnt really matter what "U" (not u in particular) think it SHOULD take, it doesnt make it go any faster, deal with it or move on.


Holy moley, rants off. :)

[TeeJay82]

And all of this agony could have been avoided if they had sold it as beta and not a final product

[Redroach]

I think he bit off more than MG could comfortably chew. CoD became overdesigned and top heavy with complex features. He got off track between the need to make a simulator, and the urge to make a replica.

Yet this obsession with detail is what is expected from CoD. Il-2 was committed to realism, it did great for its time and people liked it very much. Which is quite logical, as most of the WW2 aviation buffs would want to re-enact the deeds of their 'heroes' as realistically as possible.
And CoD just HAD to ramp up the realism standards by a fair margin, there's no doubt about that. Actually, things like gear wheels spinning down while being retracted, that is the very thing that keeps me attached to CoD. Without the rich realism features, there would be nothing that distinguishes it from random simulation XY and no one would even talk about the botched release of CoD anymore.

My bet is that the only guy that could remotely handle the programming necessary for CoD was Oleg. And he may indeed have been distracted by whatever it was; others pushed for more progress and so he left. Leaving no one that had the insight into CoD's code. So the rest of the team struggled to at least put out the alpha version we got to know, and to learn more things about the CoD core along the way, in order to fix things.

Okay, speculations solved, let's move on. How about a big air war on the repka servers tonight? I'll fly a Schwarm of Me110s ;)

[MD_Titus]

Yea...the "heart" of the community seems to be non existent. If you show any kind of support for the development team, or what Oleg has done...people brand you a "kiss arse", or a "follower", or whatever it is that negative people say.

yeah, but 9 times out of 10 the join date next to those posts says april 2011 and i completely disregard them. so many rage posts from il2 newbs, they were never the heart of the game or the community if they didn't show interest or a desire to post before release.

two months since release, patches being worked on, i've seen huge performance increases since initial release and i'm happy it's on the curve it is. right direction, diamond in the rough and all that. i just hope it is allowed to continue and is not killed off (the game or the forums) by retards whining bitching and crying like the kids you usually see in a call of duty forum.

as to the detail aspect - pc gamer review said something along the lines of currently this isn't a game, but it is a fantastic virtual museum with an unprecedented level of detail and accuracy, faithfully reproducing it's subject matter, and that it has the potential to be an awesome simulator. it finished by advising to give it a shot in a few months after issues had been patched.

[Honeymonster]

two months since release, patches being worked on, i've seen huge performance increases since initial release and i'm happy it's on the curve it is. right direction, diamond in the rough and all that. i just hope it is allowed to continue and is not killed off (the game or the forums) by retards whining bitching and crying like the kids you usually see in a call of duty forum.
Great post which sums up mine and many other peoples thoughts. It needs to be posted in at least 5 other threads similar to this one though. :grin:

[Insuber]

I think he bit off more than MG could comfortably chew. CoD became overdesigned and top heavy with complex features. He got off track between the need to make a simulator, and the urge to make a replica.

It was never Olegs way to admit an error or to back down in the face of public opinion (the 190 bar is still right and Il-2's sound is excellent, it's just our sound system that is wrong etc.). So when CoD began to look like it needed fundamental changes at a core level, he headed for the door.

It is a realistic scenario. Add to that the the lack of management, the delays and the subsequent budget issues, all turning around a talented visionary man, with his aura of infallibility after the incredible planetary success of Il2 series.
It took a bit to the top management to regain control of this beast, but I hope that they're back in track now, with Oleg's ideas coupled with a more solid project management.

[Baron]

And all of this agony could have been avoided if they had sold it as beta and not a final product


Final product? there is no such thing in Flight sims. Never have never will. ;)

Like i said, that doesnt matter now and thats just the way it is.

People can keep on harping on it (to what end i do not know) but it wont change anything.

[Rattlehead]

Yet this obsession with detail is what is expected from CoD. Il-2 was committed to realism, it did great for its time and people liked it very much. Which is quite logical, as most of the WW2 aviation buffs would want to re-enact the deeds of their 'heroes' as realistically as possible.
And CoD just HAD to ramp up the realism standards by a fair margin, there's no doubt about that. Actually, things like gear wheels spinning down while being retracted, that is the very thing that keeps me attached to CoD. Without the rich realism features, there would be nothing that distinguishes it from random simulation XY and no one would even talk about the botched release of CoD anymore.



I agree with this. Whatever the problems with Clod, one can't argue that it's a very ambitious project with a lot of amazing details.

[Trumper]

Yea...the "heart" of the community seems to be non existent. If you show any kind of support for the development team, or what Oleg has done...people brand you a "kiss arse", or a "follower", or whatever it is that negative people say.
Actually it works both ways,if you make any negative comments constructive or otherwise you will also be shouted down.
I hope Luthier and his team are allowed to carry on ,not sure what restrictions they will have time wise or financially.
The release in the USA will be critical and a good indication of any further commitments.
If it goes quiet after the release in the USA then we will know BUT if work continues for a year after it will be a golden nugget.
Olegs dream of an all encompassing war sim is a long way off as it stands but it could be a way forward.
If Luthier and team do finish then i hope the sim is opened up to 3rd party high quality modders.

[Redroach]

It may be subjective, but the 'good-spirited' guys seem to create their drama for themselves. I've seen very few posts chastising guys for being faithful to CoD, yet there seem to be many posts claiming the victim role...
And to MD_Titus, regarding 'late' registration dates: Sooo you feel superior for having klicked on "register" earlier and played the anticipation game in full length, huh? Well, keep your beliefs, no issue taken. In fact, I don't even care. That's just too ridiculous.

[Feathered_IV]

...My bet is that the only guy that could remotely handle the programming necessary for CoD was Oleg.

I'm not sure. Oleg was very good at accepting the lions share of recognition for the Il-2 series and he very rarely gave much by way of introduction or acknowledgement to his team. Certainly not in the way that the RoF team do at any rate. The Il-2 and CoD staff remain a shadowy bunch to this day. It is quite possible that the very talented coders who helped make Il-2 such a success have long since moved on.

[Pudfark]

I'm not sure. Oleg was very good at accepting the lions share of recognition for the Il-2 series and he very rarely gave much by way of introduction or acknowledgement to his team. Certainly not in the way that the RoF team do at any rate. The Il-2 and CoD staff remain a shadowy bunch to this day. It is quite possible that the very talented coders who helped make Il-2 such a success have long since moved on.

Your last sentence....that's what I've been thinking.
It seems to make a great deal of sense...

Any comparisons made between CLOD and IL2 are meaningless now...
For all we know? Luthier is the only one working to fix this misrepresented,
incomplete mess. I sincerely hope he is capable of it.

Right now?
I feel like a passenger on the sinking Titanic...holding a "round trip ticket"....
Why do I feel this way?
Because of the intentional lack of accurate information presented thus far.
Why this omission?
The answer is obvious.
Their answer is obvious as well.

[Redroach]

I'm not sure. Oleg was very good at accepting the lions share of recognition for the Il-2 series and he very rarely gave much by way of introduction or acknowledgement to his team. Certainly not in the way that the RoF team do at any rate. The Il-2 and CoD staff remain a shadowy bunch to this day. It is quite possible that the very talented coders who helped make Il-2 such a success have long since moved on.

hmm could be that way 'round as well, yes

[Blackdog_kt]

I think it's way to early to be having a discussion about the potential of a 3rd party industry around CoD, especially if you consider that even in the microsoft FS series (the champion in terms of 3rd party industry, payware and freeware alike) it takes a couple of years for add-on makers to move from one title to the next.

I've known a lot of people who kept using FS2004 because FSX was still too buggy, too much of a resource hog, etc etc and the add-on companies were getting similar feedback from their forums. The result was that even today, a lot of add-ons are released both for FSX and for FS2004. Microsoft is developing MS Flight (which is supposed to be next in the series) and yet, people haven't completely moved on from FS2004 to FSX yet.

In other words, it takes way more time for a 3rd party industry to develop around any flight sim. So don't panic just because there's not a few dozen companies churning out add-ons for CoD just yet.



On another note

They? They? You are joking, right?

Theese freeking forums wouldnt back of from ANYTHING until Oleg and team bend t over and did as they where told regarding every little FREEKING detail, and i do mean EVERY detail. Changing colour of grass (witch, needless to say, came out wrong all the same, naturally, according to those who "knows") doesnt take any time what so ever, does it? Markings, correct size, font and colour of course, on all planes, at the EXACT right spot, dont worry, done in a jiffy. Correct crop marks, no sweat. Clickable cockpit? Sure why not, i`ll do it during my coffee break. Pilot headsize, colour of engine flames, dhu, of course WE know best. Antennas 1 m to far to the front? Do it again and do it right.Dynamic weather? sure, give me, but if i cant run it on my P4 i want my money back or ill report it as a fail/bug/broken to everyone and anyone who will listen, even to those who have better things to do (afaik the dynamic weather isnt broken). Dynamic lighting, why, everyone else is using it so it can take any time, can it? etc. etc. etc ad nauseum. Doesnt matter, what time spent on it, it still comes out wrong according to all the experts. (Honestly, i dont even understand why they bother). Never ever could the team reveal a new feature without it beeing followed by sh*t storm of expert opinions that wouldnt take no for an answer. And it still continuous to this day with the patches. (not talking about adult bug reporting, im talking whining and bitching "i want my money back" mentality) Because u do know, that if it doesnt work on MY pc the game is broken/buggy and needs to be set on fire and forgotten by EVERYONE, right? Doesnt matter if i cant get it to work on lap top (jesus) its still a bust i tell u.

What many of u fail to understand is that this criticism of CoD has been going on for years, literally, and the buggy, like most completely new releases (No, its not warmed over IL2 Sturmovik and if u think that i cant be bothered with "u") was only the straw that broke the camels back. It would have been a lot less buggy, if the community would have been kept out of the loop like in most game developments. Alot less "essential" features = more time to what really counts, "eye candy" can be added/tweaked later.

Iv come to realize that a lot of people here and at other CoD forums isnt happy unless there is something to give "constructive criticism" about, ABOUT EVERYTHING.

Oleg`s/dev teams problem, more than anything, is listening way to much to the community. AFTER the game was released, that would be fine, but not during critical development.

But you are right, Oleg and team promised/wanted to much because they wanted to please the IL2 community. The thing is, that u and everyone thinking the same, actually hold this against them when it didnt turn out as everyone hoped, and that, in my book, is the lowest of low. (sry if it comes across as an insult, really isnt directed at u personally)

So, please, get back to reality. (not just u) The more "real" we want it the more buggy/complicated its gonna be and the more time it takes. Is that something that needs to be said, or is hard to understand? (if u or anyone respond with anything even remotly tuching the subject of AA or FSAA for ex., ill scream. Try looking at the big picture and how everything is connected before responding with something thats been said a gazillion times allredy)

Just for once i wich people would look at what we DO have but something tells me that alot of it is way over their heads in term of complexity so its completely missed or seen as a "given" (comparing BF3 or god knows what else with CoD kind of reinforces that feeling). Instead, look at what we have compared to what we had before, IL2 (not counting bugs thats not really a suprise they are there this early to begin with and lets face it, IL2 is far from perfect or bug free) and not what "you`r" head thought/wished it would be after all these years of fantasising. RoF for ex, was faaaar from perfect on release. its taken them 2, count them, 2 years getting a descent campaign working.

At this point it doesnt matter one bit that u people think u have been "cheated" into buying a beta, cold hard truth i know, but if it really pains u that much to have this game on your pc, remove it and pretend it hasnt been released yet and let those who at least appreciate getting to see the game first hand instead of through friday updates (witch, in all honesty, only gave us headaches) after waiting 5 years, instead of having to hear endless complaints about not being released yet, do thire "thing" so we can get somewhere, anywhere but at this point in time = a Cod we all want.

It takes time, doesnt really matter what "U" (not u in particular) think it SHOULD take, it doesnt make it go any faster, deal with it or move on.


Holy moley, rants off. :)

I'll go ahead and agree with this even though i wouldn't phrase it exactly the same way, but the general sentiment described in the above quote is accurate. This is exactly what the majority of the community has been doing for the past 5 years: "I want it all, i want it better and more complicated than it was in IL2, i want it bug-free and i want it yesterday and for a reasonable price".

Well, things in the real world don't work out all rose and butterflies most of the time ;)


I too asked for a couple of features i liked and i supported features proposed by others, in some cases with a lot of tenacity because i truly believed they would bring some added value to the gameplay experience.

The difference is that i knew something's got to give, so i was willing to either wait until they get it all done, or buy a half-finished product that contains the foundations of everything we asked for and wait for it to get patched to completion.

Just take down a list of names and you'll see that the people who moaned the most about the release delays and clamored for it to be released sooner are usually the ones who today provide expert advice on why the release should have been delayed.

Comedy like this is too good to be experienced free of charge. If they charge an admission fee for every time they contradict themselves things will quiet down very fast around here as they'll recoup the amount of money they spent on the sim in no time, heck some of them could make enough to buy a real Spitfire that way :-P

[philip.ed]

Yes, the community has done that, but the team have never responded to say: "that's funny. But seriously, you'll get what you're given". Oleg had promised features like dynamic campaigns, new sound systems etc which doesn't help alleviate the fact that the game has none of these features on release. And despite the glamour of various aspects of the game, I won't fork out the money for a new PC until I know that the Battle of Britain is even in the game.

And regarding release, the game has been in development for a long time, and many were under the impression that the development updates were all obsolete and that the team was actually withholding the holy grail of flight sims. I guess the grail is there somewhere, but it's definite not holy (just holey).

[drive-by-pilot]

I think it's way to early to be having a discussion about the potential of a 3rd party industry around CoD, especially if you consider that even in the microsoft FS series (the champion in terms of 3rd party industry, payware and freeware alike) it takes a couple of years for add-on makers to move from one title to the next.

I've known a lot of people who kept using FS2004 because FSX was still too buggy, too much of a resource hog, etc etc and the add-on companies were getting similar feedback from their forums. The result was that even today, a lot of add-ons are released both for FSX and for FS2004. Microsoft is developing MS Flight (which is supposed to be next in the series) and yet, people haven't completely moved on from FS2004 to FSX yet.

In other words, it takes way more time for a 3rd party industry to develop around any flight sim. So don't panic just because there's not a few dozen companies churning out add-ons for CoD just yet.
:-P



I think the question from op was more to do with, why oleg m. abandoned the game "dream", not why are there no third party activity. Your thoughts on that please, I think he was overwhelmed and tired.

[ElAurens]

It amazes me that the blame is apportioned to Ubisoft.

I also get the feeling 1C had a major hand in the reelase too. After all they also need the cash!

Exactly, all you lot blaming the boys in Paris need to aim your poisoned pens about 2500km to the North East...

Be Very Sure.

[proton45]

Oleg posted this video on his YouTube account...maybe this is where his dream is going?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCQ_0UEfT0k

[Feathered_IV]

People send him stuff. It is made by a fan.

[jayrc]

Oleg is one man, he did his job, now it is up to his team to get it optimized, can't wait for movies to come out with clod simulation, Oleg Maddox is the' man.

[Timberwolf]

Its simple Anything you buy hot off the grill you run the risk of mistakes and flaws. My dad would never buy a car the first year that model would come out or the 2nd year.

That said you will have people that will buy something and whine till there blue in the face and bash others for there own mistake Or talk about people like they know them or know what that person is thinking and do the talking for them sounds like drama at the ubisoft / 1c company watercooler from people that have no idea what they do

I can't tell you what any of ideas or programming they have come up with or done ....But I know from my own eyes that Ubisoft held back Cliffs of dover from sale in North America for 3 - 3 1/2 months while other websites sold it world-wide at the same time ..So that leads me to think 1C company was given "upfront" money to devlop and bring forth to ubisoft and Justflight to do what they needed to do...sell and make money..Ubisoft pushed 1C to have a release date and already was selling it to Eruope without any upgrades or bug fixes while holding it on lock down in America Maybe because the idea of selling it in a american market it would get bad reviews due to a bigger media market ..Youtube TV gaming shows etc etc ..

Right now with my gaming .. It runs great no real issues
How often do i play? : i don't really play the game
why: I find ingame control of up and down is too bouncy I have yet to line up and level out level with a target
And yes its a game programed setting not my joystick or lag

[Tvrdi]

Oleg...is history

[Langnasen]

Oleg was a one-hit wonder.

Was a hell of a hit though.

[Insuber]

Oleg's dream brought us a beautiful yet incomplete simulator. Currently 50% of the features planned in the Oleg's era are disabled - according to developers - because they don't work.
Luthier's and 1C plans are still largely unknown to us.
From the latest post, we can infer that there are plans to rework some basic aspects like sounds. There should be also a new expansion, regarding probably the Battle for Moscow.

For the time being, I fly CoD a lot online, even if sometimes it seems a bit empty. I will enjoy it better when the numerous bugs will be ironed out, and there will be a complete simulated world as in Oleg's dream, including ground units and all. IF it will happen, of course. But I'm optimistic. And we will all remember Oleg as a visionary man.

Cheers,
Insuber

[carguy_]

Well, things in the real world don't work out all rose and butterflies most of the time ;)

I too asked for a couple of features i liked and i supported features proposed by others, in some cases with a lot of tenacity because i truly believed they would bring some added value to the gameplay experience.

The difference is that i knew something's got to give, so i was willing to either wait until they get it all done, or buy a half-finished product that contains the foundations of everything we asked for and wait for it to get patched to completion.

The truth is that majority of those people are dimwits, like in any other game community. The thing I found too funny is the fact that those are mostly 25-55 years old men doesn`t seem to change anything. We still got retards bashing the devs constantly demanding a refund. Yes, right now, they want it now or their money back. The patching of the game, developping it like all the rest of famous flight sims doesn`t seem to ring a bell.

I read those posts and I genuinely wonder where were those guys in the past decade? Things just work like that, but they don`t accept this, even if it means the shutdown of the title they`ve been asking so much for.


Just take down a list of names and you'll see that the people who moaned the most about the release delays and clamored for it to be released sooner are usually the ones who today provide expert advice on why the release should have been delayed.

To add to that, a lot of them idiots bring up FPS games as worthy examples of why this game is an unfinished abomination. Do I even have to comment?
Next thing, many people complain that the game stutters. Yeah, but they are asked to give system specs and all I see is a mid range PC at least two years old. Looks like too many people got spoiled by consoles and console games which literally put a PC game market to a stop. So the common knowledge now is that every game should be able to run on max settings on a 2 year old pc. To those folks I have one thing to say : just scrap your pc and return to your console because you are too stupid to use it anyway.


Comedy like this is too good to be experienced free of charge. If they charge an admission fee for every time they contradict themselves things will quiet down very fast around here as they'll recoup the amount of money they spent on the sim in no time, heck some of them could make enough to buy a real Spitfire that way :-PMaybe. To me it looks like those people don`t have anything else to do. I am astounded how can one be so mad over a 50 buck video game when so many things pose bigger problems? Hell, your car can break down and require a 500$ repair anytime, you can get a 500$ ticket etc. Normal poeple who have lives (ie. things to do) don`t even think of moaning so much over a video game. A normal person who found CoD unplayable just takes it back and gets his money back or puts it back on his shelf for the game to see better days. I don`t get it how one can get worked up so much about it.

[Tree_UK]

I wonder what was going through Oleg's mind when he was signing autographs and lapping up the glory at the Russian release, I bet he was hoping to trouser as much cash as he could before someone came running back to the store demanding their hard earned lolly back! :grin:

[Insuber]

Chasing and chastising human's contradictions is quite futile, everyone bears 1'000 of these.

[JG52Uther]

I wonder what was going through Oleg's mind when he was signing autographs and lapping up the glory at the Russian release, I bet he was hoping to trouser as much cash as he could before someone came running back to the store demanding their hard earned lolly back! :grin:

I've met Oleg,he's a nice guy.
I imagine he was feeling a huge amount of embarrassment,probably contractually obliged to be at the launch as the 'face' of il2/CoD,and hoping to get ther h£ll out of there before the balloon went up and the cr*p hit the fan!

[Tree_UK]

I've met Oleg,he's a nice guy.
I imagine he was feeling a huge amount of embarrassment,probably contractually obliged to be at the launch as the 'face' of il2/CoD,and hoping to get ther h£ll out of there before the balloon went up and the cr*p hit the fan!

Yeah I think you are right, it would not have been a pleasurable experience knowing what was round the corner.

[JG52Krupi]

I can't wait to quote some of the statements made this forums crybabies in six months when we are moaning about the fm of 109e7 and f when most of the problems have been resolved.

The moaning and negativity is starting to piss me off, yes this release has being a farce but you guys have to take a break stop moaning and have a pint or a cig, whatever floats your boat but just keep away from this forum or keep a lid on it. If this game is still in a bad state six months from now THEN it will be time to tear your pound of flesh from Maddox games gutted corpse.

[Tvrdi]

nobody expect CLOD to be super sim at release...but compared to IL2 release...its more or less, a complete failure and loss of trust amongst hard earned fans...we can debate forever but the only truth is that me and all of my friends (squadmates) who bought this sim never played more than 1-2 hours...some of them arent playing at all anymore...enough said

[JG52Krupi]

Just how many times do the woes of previous flight sims have to be brought up.

The original il2 had it's fair share of problems at launch as did rise of flight which I struggled to get working for a few months, yes clearly something went sour at Ubi or MG or 1C perhaps with all of them. At the end of the day we will one day be laughing at this unflattering start of what I am sure will one day be hailed as a huge success.

[timholt]

At the end of the day we will one day be laughing at this unflattering start of what I am sure will one day be hailed as a huge success.

After this amount of time since release I have serious doubts about this being the case.

[Tvrdi]

Even if they fix all the bugs and performance issues, ugly external sounds, ugly neon landscape etc etc...this title with its limited theater is doomed to limited success

[JG52Krupi]

After this amount of time since release I have serious doubts about this being the case.

This isnt an fps, this is not a mainstream genre therefore we can't just wait a few months for the next game to come along.

There is nowhere else for us to turn if we want a highly detailed historic ww2 flight simulator therefore the normal rules do not apply. There is only one hand feeding our habit and therefore while we moan and complain we know that this is the best we will ever get and will have to put some faith in MG. The ww2 setting is a dying game scenario so this is it people, (unless 777 venture into the ww2 era and they still have a lot to do in ww1) therefore we gave to swallow the pill and show some support for the only developer that gives a damn about our addiction :D

[JG52Krupi]

Even if they fix all the bugs and performance issues, ugly external sounds, ugly neon landscape etc etc...this title with its limited theater is doomed to limited success

This genre was always going to suffer limited success for crying out loud people how can you not see this, more people would rather play a quick "fun" fps than sit down and learn how to fly. That's why the console industry is booming people buy the same game month after month but just with a different title.

If you want this game to succeed then grin and bear the current set back.

EDIT: if I appear bad tempered and snappy sorry, i am suffering from a hangover and therefore I am feeling rather grumpy.

[Ali Fish]

This genre was always going to suffer limited success for crying out loud people how can you not see this, more people would rather play a quick "fun" fps than sit down and learn how to fly. That's why the console industry is booming people buy the same game month after month but just with a different title.

If you want this game to succeed then grin and bear the current set back.

With particular attention to the last sentence this is very true. many of us are sitting back patiently waiting.

Personally im trying to discuss modding constructivly which allows others to take part in the discussions. it keeps me away from various annoyances that pop up. im a mature man. 37 years old, i cant afford to go about my life bitching about this that and the next. For many of you it really is time to shut up a bit already ! the reason is that there isnt anything more you can complain about that we dont already know. so this is my heartfelt plea. Please dont destroy my dream or oleg,s or anyones thats patiently awaiting further development with a positive attitude.

[ATAG_Doc]

There are 2 types of people in CoD forums at the moment. Them with it and able to utilize it in its present state. And the nay sayers who post things to illicit a reaction. At the end of the day no one is turning the ship around and changing course. This is the newest and greatest ww2 flight sim aiming for a larger group of flight simers. Nothing is changing this. That ship has already sailed. You will go insane trying to defend it when there is no need to. Once it is released the flood gates will open. Just sit back and relax. And if you are one of the fortunate ones to own it now keep playing with it. That drives them even more batty then the post drive you.

[uahallie]

I can't wait to quote some of the statements made this forums crybabies in six months when we are moaning about the fm of 109e7 and f when most of the problems have been resolved.

The moaning and negativity is starting to piss me off, yes this release has being a farce but you guys have to take a break stop moaning and have a pint or a cig, whatever floats your boat but just keep away from this forum or keep a lid on it. If this game is still in a bad state six months from now THEN it will be time to tear your pound of flesh from Maddox games gutted corpse.

Exact my thoughts Krupi, give it 6 months and then see..until we should just sit back and STFU.
But behold if they don`t manage to turn her `round :evil:

6High

[robtek]

We "fanboys", as i've been called sometimes, at least have the hope of a brighter future for CloD,
the nay-sayers are just jealous because they have lost anyway:
either CloD has the bright future the most of us are hoping for -> they were wrong
or CloD goes down in flames -> they have lost the only non-obsolete WWII-Flight-sim that can reasonably be expected in the years to come.

[SlipBall]

I didn't what a knock the Sim thread, I still am looking forward to a smooth game someday. I was really interested in what others thought as to what could have happened to Oleg. To cause him to walk away from his baby, his dream, that he spoke of so passionately.:grin:

[raaaid]

i bet oleg hasnt retired :)

i have a vague memory of him saying something about the ship not singing or something :)

[Baron]

Think it was Luthier who said that Oleg couldnt/cant just walk away even if he wanted to, something that seems to be the new "fashionable" thing to claim if you are on the "we knew this would happen" crowd. (another comedy gold moment btw)

[Tvrdi]

This is the newest and greatest ww2 flight sim aiming for a larger group of flight simers.

This is the newest crap piece of software, unoptimized, barely playable on my rig which is i7920 OC 3.6Ghz, GTX470 OC 750Mhz, 6GB of RAM...with all my HW and SW knowledge and beta testing experince with some other sims Im still unable to play this sim (with all the tweaks) with decent performance and I dont want to turn off buildings and trees and to dergade already ugly neon landscape with low settings...I dont mind waiting for fixes but this is heavily porked and unusable (and will be for a long time) and thats what counts...If they aim at large group of simmers who are asking for realistic sim with more content, features and OPTIMISED software - they FAILED....
apart from teh very poor optimisatio nof this software - the bigest joke are sounds which are more or less stock il2 sounds...how many years if development to deliver a game with stock il2 sounds...15 yrs old...Luthier said they will look into sounds but that we cant expect anything for months........that a big goodbye, we have enough fun with ROF 1946 and IL2 HSFX/UP.
The only bright spot of CLOD is FM. But thats not enough for success.

[JG52Krupi]

This is the newest crap piece of software, unoptimized, barely playable on my rig which is i7920 OC 3.6Ghz, GTX470 OC 750Mhz, 6GB of RAM...with all my HW and SW knowledge and beta testing experince with some other sims Im still unable to play this sim (with all the tweaks) with decent performance and I dont want to turn off buildings and trees and to dergade already ugly neon landscape with low settings...I dont mind waiting for fixes but this is heavily porked and unusable (and will be for a long time) and thats what counts...If they aim at large group of simmers who are asking for realistic sim with more content, features and OPTIMISED software - they FAILED....

Works for me :cool:

[robtek]

@Tvrdi

As there are only a few, very vocal, people are having problems in such dimensions and the majority is able to get some kind of fun out of this unfinished game, it must be that you, or at least your view of the things, are the problem. :-D
Me, i am happy as it is atm, except the soundbug. But when the next patch works i am really happy again with CloD.

Btw, ranting and whining doesn't solve problems, it creates problems.

[Baron]

This is the newest crap piece of software, unoptimized, barely playable on my rig which is i7920 OC 3.6Ghz, GTX470 OC 750Mhz, 6GB of RAM...with all my HW and SW knowledge and beta testing experince with some other sims Im still unable to play this sim (with all the tweaks) with decent performance and I dont want to turn off buildings and trees and to dergade already ugly neon landscape with low settings...I dont mind waiting for fixes but this is heavily porked and unusable (and will be for a long time) and thats what counts...If they aim at large group of simmers who are asking for realistic sim with more content, features and OPTIMISED software - they FAILED....
apart from teh very poor optimisatio nof this software - the bigest joke are sounds which are more or less stock il2 sounds...how many years if development to deliver a game with stock il2 sounds...15 yrs old...Luthier said they will look into sounds but that we cant expect anything for months........that a big goodbye, we have enough fun with ROF 1946 and IL2 HSFX/UP.
The only bright spot of CLOD is FM. But thats not enough for success.



All personal opinions aside regarding sounds, colour of terrain and such, things thats not a bugg etc. What you are basically saying is that its a "fail" bacause u cant run it on high/max and u refuse to lower the settings to get it to run?

Rgr.


Oh, and btw, how come everyone having problems is convinced they are running a monster machine?

Before my upgrade i ran a Q9550 and Gtx470, could i run it on max, hell no. Was i suprised, lol, not even the slightest. I was however extremly suprises ir look as good as it did on the settings i could run (mostly medium and a few highs)

[Blackdog_kt]

Yes, the community has done that, but the team have never responded to say: "that's funny. But seriously, you'll get what you're given". Oleg had promised features like dynamic campaigns, new sound systems etc which doesn't help alleviate the fact that the game has none of these features on release. And despite the glamour of various aspects of the game, I won't fork out the money for a new PC until I know that the Battle of Britain is even in the game.

And regarding release, the game has been in development for a long time, and many were under the impression that the development updates were all obsolete and that the team was actually withholding the holy grail of flight sims. I guess the grail is there somewhere, but it's definite not holy (just holey).


True, they weren't very talkative but i'd rather have a small team of 25 working on the sim than taking extra time to word updates in a way they can't be misunderstood.

They talked about a lot of features but they didn't really say all of them would be in the release or even when they would come. In fact, when asking for "funky" stuff the usual response was a simple "it's supported by the new engine". No definite commitment as to when or even if it will be included there. They did promise certain features that got the axe and didn't make it in the release, but regarding most of the groundbreaking stuff they usually replied with "it's possible".

This doesn't mean it will be in the first release version, the first patch, or within the first six months of the sim's life, it just means that it can be done. If people want to go ahead and take this as a given certainty it's their problem.

This ties in to the final part of your post: people chose to get deluded and misunderstand a lot of things, then they were naturally mega-disappointed it turned out differently.

I was holding a smaller basket and got exactly what i expected: a foundation for the future inclusion of a bunch of features i would like to see, many of which have never been done before. I didn't expect a complete sim out of the box and i didn't expect the complete simulated battle of Britain experience.

I expected a sort of flight sim framework/operating system with an early war setting as an excuse to actually release and sell it, so that we can do cool things in the future and by the way, that was mostly inferred by the developers' words and how they described things. It seems other members of the community were so excited and impatient they were unable to read between the lines a bit, it's ok, mistakes are human.

In short, that's all i expected and i got it, so that's why i'm not disappointed ;)

[Tvrdi]

All personal opinions aside regarding sounds, colour of terrain and such, things thats not a bugg etc. What you are basically saying is that its a "fail" bacause u cant run it on high/max and u refuse to lower the settings to get it to run?

Rgr.


Oh, and btw, how come everyone having problems is convinced they are running a monster machine?

Before my upgrade i ran a Q9550 and Gtx470, could i run it on max, hell no. Was i suprised, lol, not even the slightest. I was however extremly suprises ir look as good as it did on the settings i could run (mostly medium and a few highs)
ROF is in most aspects much better than IL2 (putting theatre aside) and was much better on release.....and that is on the same rig....so CLOD is very unoptimised...thats a deal breaker for sure...

[JimmyBlonde]

RoF has had a long time to develop and the community is very positive and pro-active. People there are behind the product despite its' shortcomings (and it does have them).

I believe that CloD has the potential to be for WW2 what RoF is for WW1 in a few years time. Anyone who wants to see that potential of CloD should look at Freycinets' videos which do a marvelous job of displaying the unedited game. They show a fairly stable and good quality product so the foundation is there.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, all it requires is polish, bug-zapping, proper external sounds, AI revision and game-modes for SP and MP which do the games' features justice.

When I upgrade form my 9800GT to a GTX460 I'll be considering buying it on the strength of what I've seen in Freycinets' videos alone...

BUT

I wont commit until the development team addresses the core issues which seem to have been carried over from 1946. AI, Sounds, game modes (campaign).

I also want to see the devs listening to the community and interacting to find solutions and improvements. Things become a lot more positive when you know that somebody is listening and the tone of the forums here might lift a little if the posters felt like they were being acknowledged. (I'm not saying every post should get a response but a little personal touch here and there where it counts would be a boon for PR)

[Timberwolf]

This is the newest crap piece of software, unoptimized, barely playable on my rig which is i7920 OC 3.6Ghz, GTX470 OC 750Mhz, 6GB of RAM...with all my HW and SW knowledge and beta testing experince with some other sims Im still unable to play this sim (with all the tweaks) with decent performance and I dont want to turn off buildings and trees and to dergade already ugly neon landscape with low settings...I dont mind waiting for fixes but this is heavily porked and unusable (and will be for a long time) and thats what counts...If they aim at large group of simmers who are asking for realistic sim with more content, features and OPTIMISED software - they FAILED....
apart from teh very poor optimisatio nof this software - the bigest joke are sounds which are more or less stock il2 sounds...how many years if development to deliver a game with stock il2 sounds...15 yrs old...Luthier said they will look into sounds but that we cant expect anything for months........that a big goodbye, we have enough fun with ROF 1946 and IL2 HSFX/UP.
The only bright spot of CLOD is FM. But thats not enough for success.

Guess i would be peved too if i spent that much into a computer only to find that my computer in my sig runs everything at max without problems

[Untamo]

Everyone who did their homework knew that they were getting an unfinished product. I bought the collector's ed. happily in the hope of getting a playable game after a year or two. (I keep telling myself..)I'm still a young man, I can wait :)

[Sturm_Williger]

My personal feeling is that Oleg and team simply bit off more than they could chew when planning for the IL2-successor. They wanted it to have everything that IL2 didn't have as well as all it did have. In effect, a top down approach to building and they ended up with it trying to do too much.

So it's not so much built for "tomorrow's computers" as merely trying to do too much. However, with it released and being steadily optimised and debugged, the fact is that PC's will continue to gain power and memory and thus will slowly catch up to the features that are currently "overoptimistic".

Taking the long view, it's going to be pretty amazing, even if the short view is a tad frustrating.

[Tvrdi]

Taking the long view, it's going to be pretty amazing....

so you are a seer?

[JG52Krupi]

Nope hes just pointing out the obvious and that's something that appears to be evading u :)

[Feathered_IV]

50/50 at the moment. Could go either way.

[JG52Krupi]

What makes you say that, the fact that we know what they are planning to work on in the next coming months and as luthier has said before no news is good news.

So we know when the next patch is due we know what they are planning to improve upon but even with this knowledge unless luthier is here to hold your hand then that means everyone can troll away... What a mature bunch of what 25 to 40 year olds.

[LoBiSoMeM]

I love people talking about RoF as a benchmark to compare with CloD.

Please, people who do that, launch a mission in CloD with some ground units moving, like a transport column, cargo train, with textures, models, efects, shadows, forest + HIGH, hit F2+CTRL or SHIFT, and come back here to talk about how great RoF is...

Nothing today compares to CloD. People are lazy, people don't explore all the content in CloD and talk a lot of nonsense, like a bunch of console players.

I was disapointed as hell in the release, because the sim was unplayable. But now? Even with bugs it's amazing! RoF? Give me a break... Is a good sim, but don't compare to CloD.

[LoBiSoMeM]

My personal feeling is that Oleg and team simply bit off more than they could chew when planning for the IL2-successor. They wanted it to have everything that IL2 didn't have as well as all it did have. In effect, a top down approach to building and they ended up with it trying to do too much.

So it's not so much built for "tomorrow's computers" as merely trying to do too much. However, with it released and being steadily optimised and debugged, the fact is that PC's will continue to gain power and memory and thus will slowly catch up to the features that are currently "overoptimistic".

Taking the long view, it's going to be pretty amazing, even if the short view is a tad frustrating.

Nonsense talking, and spreading like a cancer over this forum. The sim runs well in TODAY hardware, it's nothing so "impossible" to run, but we have major bugs that restrain fluid performance sometimes.

I can run really ok (+40FPS, quality high, lots of trees) in my Phenom X4 3.4 Ghz, 4GB RAM, GTX 560 Ti. That's not a "tomorrow's computer". Please, can we stop talking this nonsense? I'll be glad... It's boring...

As I said, people are LAZY. People like to spend all money in some rig, get a game and put all sliders UP, even SSAO, and expect fluid +60 FPS. Try that in RoF: all sliders up, that not do 0,1% in visual quality upgrade but make the sim a slideshow... People act as console players, that don't have to know how to configure game graphic settings. I post a lot of videos with high quality settings and great performance, but people STILL talking this kind of thing... "Future harware"... Maybe I have a NASA computer and don't know!

Strange!

[Feathered_IV]

What makes you say that, the fact that we know what they are planning to work on in the next coming months and as luthier has said before no news is good news.

Not that. I was thinking more long term. The chances of seeing things like a non-placeholder AI speech system, realistic numbers of ships, campaigns and whatnot. Things like that are very costly and might just as likely remain much as they are.

[JG52Krupi]

Were already getting a new ship in the next patch.

But I agree I was expecting more ships but they will come hell I wouldn't mind modelling some myself :D

[robtek]

@LoBiSoMeM

the restricted version, that we have now, is running on todays pc's, ok.
But!!! The full version, with all gimmicks enabled (hint: dynamic weather) will need tomorrows pc, or even the next generation thereafter.

[Tvrdi]

I love people talking about RoF as a benchmark to compare with CloD.

Please, people who do that, launch a mission in CloD with some ground units moving, like a transport column, cargo train, with textures, models, efects, shadows, forest + HIGH, hit F2+CTRL or SHIFT, and come back here to talk about how great RoF is...

Nothing today compares to CloD. People are lazy, people don't explore all the content in CloD and talk a lot of nonsense, like a bunch of console players.

I was disapointed as hell in the release, because the sim was unplayable. But now? Even with bugs it's amazing! RoF? Give me a break... Is a good sim, but don't compare to CloD.

why not? ROF has more features in every aspect of the sim than CLOD....yes it had at release too....better looking graphics...FM and DM on par with CLOD (if not better)...and in the end its better optimised (with some minor flaws, yes)....
I would like to place all the f*ing units you sugested but even without them he sim is more or less unplayable on my (not weak) system...
hypnotised die hard fans....you cant fight them even with facts...we have them in ROF too

[Strike]

why not? ROF has more features in every aspect of the sim than CLOD....yes it had at release too....better looking graphics...FM and DM on par with CLOD (if not better)...and that the end its better optimised (with some minor flaws, yes)....
I would like to place all the f*ing units you sugested but even without them he sim is more or less unplayable on my (not weak) system...
hypnotised die hard fans....you cant fight them even with facts...we have them in ROF too

wake up. RoF has been out for 2 years. CloD has been out for 2 and a half months. Don't even try to tell me that RoF was perfect on release, because I've played it from day 1. I think in order to get an unbiased comparison, you need to look at CloD in 2013, and compare it to RoF at present day. Catch my drift? Now go take a nap :P

[ATAG_Bliss]

why not? ROF has more features in every aspect of the sim than CLOD....yes it had at release too....better looking graphics...FM and DM on par with CLOD (if not better)...and that the end its better optimised (with some minor flaws, yes)....
I would like to place all the f*ing units you sugested but even without them he sim is more or less unplayable on my (not weak) system...
hypnotised die hard fans....you cant fight them even with facts...we have them in ROF too

You must not know much about old IL2 or the new one. You could damage a cockpit in IL2 almost 10 years ago. You can't even do that in ROF now. ROF's DM flat out sucks ass. You can lawn dart your plane at 300MPH straight into the ground and the fuselage is still intact. I mean LOL. You can aim a gunner directly at a pilot (both planes stationary) and it will take you 4 to 5 bullets to kill someone regardless of where the bullet hits. The only thing ROF has is wings that bend when they break.

IL2COD has easily 10x the details 10x the DM and 10x the content of ROF. And you say ROF has more features? Are you for real? ROF doesn't even simulate the different machine guns or the ballistics for the different weapons. You'd think with only a few different guns, they'd be able to at least do that one? Guess what? Old IL2 even does this. And speaking of features, just check out IL2's FMB compared to the ME. ROF is on it's 3rd year and IL2COD on it's initial release has literally 50 times the amount of objects available to use. Heck IL2's vehicles even all have different serial numbers when you place them. ROF has a grossly limited game engine. That's why the trenches that were actually full in WW1 are completely empty in ROF. Try to fill them up with sparingly low amounts of objects and a mission won't even load in ROF. Now take IL2 or IL2COD and place 1000's of objects and 1000's of planes and it will load. You can't do 1/20th of that with ROF. And anyone that thinks ROF was good on release must not have been an online player. Our squad waited for months for a patch that would even allow you to play the game for more than 10 minutes without the master browser going down, which btw, still goes down! And in it's 3rd year of development, the most people you can have on a single online server (AI included) is around 50 planes because the server crashes or the master browser disconnects. Heck, ROF just introduced engine smoke, a further object distance, and fog during the time of day. This is all stuff that came from IL2 lol.

ROF has a heck of a long way to catch up to the DM and details of 10 year old IL2, let alone IL2COD. Obviously Cliffs isn't perfect and obviously it's being worked on, but to say ROF even holds a candle to it is laughable. ROF is a 1vs1 FPS plane shooter. It's game engine will never simulate flying during the 1st world war. IL2COD/IL246 on the other hand is not limited and can simulate whatever you can possibly imagine in the form of a mission. The newly released career mode is essentially a picture book with some medals to win. If you actually think any of those missions have 1/100th of the stuff going on in the ground of WWI, you better open a history book. Because you definitely won't find them in game.

I'm not disagreeing that IL2COD isn't working properly. It's got a huge amount of bugs that WILL BE fixed. But ROF is still trying to implement things that a 10 year old sim has (old IL2). When it gets to that point, maybe they can try to get some of the details from the new IL2. Until then, to say ROF has anywhere near the features or detail of IL2 is flat out laughable.

[JG52Krupi]

Those bending wings do look sweet though and I will support both sims but I love ww2 aircraft and only like a few ww1 aka Bristol fighter, albatross.

But your right about the DM cod has more but at the same time I would love to see the wing tearing simulated (I know different materials but you would still see tearing just at a much quicker speed I assume).

[JimmyBlonde]

Nothing today compares to CloD. People are lazy, people don't explore all the content in CloD and talk a lot of nonsense, like a bunch of console players.


That's a harsh generalization. People aren't necessarily lazy, although some are I admit, but others would love to see the features you mentioned.

The problem is that they don't know how to see them or that they are not inclined to find out because it either takes too much time or is too complicated.

The presentation is what is lazy here and always has been with the Il-2 series.

If you're going to pack a game full of features then you should present them in a meaningful way otherwise how can you expect the user to figure it our for themselves?

How do you seriously expect every user to be able to code their own missions and campaigns when some of them struggle with the basics of computer knowledge?


This is not an Ikea TV cabinet, it's a combat flight simulator.

[Danelov]

"This is not an Ikea TV cabinet, it's a combat flight simulator".

:grin:Good this one

[ATAG_Doc]

So at the end of the day what do you want us to do for you? Would you like your money back? Seems like a reasonable solution to me. How about you guys? Give the customer his money back and ask him not to return?

What's your point? I bet there's not one sole in this thread that can make you feel any better about the emotional state you're in at the moment.

So what do you want here that we can assist you with? To delete or "shelve" CoD and come play with you? I just play CoD for now its all I can handle at the moment.

But really what's the goal of your post about all this? Tell us something we don't already know.

I deal with it and am use it now and I love it. Do you have a particular outcome that you or anyone that is in this thread has any control over that will help you in your time of despair?

Put on your big boy pants and deal with it.

[Tvrdi]

@Strike - OK well see CLOD in year ot two...Im all eyes and ears

@Bliss - please dont take this as an attack on CLODs devs...its just, Im not able to play this sim with my rig (which is far from weak). Whatever I did (tweaks) etc Im able to play decently with med to low (and that is over sea) and that sucks. Neon landscape is ugly, AA is not working at distance (properly). External engine sounds are stock il2-like.
What I like is FM and DM (and DM effects) and cockpit textures. But thats all. This sim needs to grow fast or will die. It need huge optimisation rework and more content.
about ROF - hehe we both know cons and pros....my biggest issues being limited NO of units available for online war and retarded view system (which is fixed now). Fm fixes are comin as I heard. Otherwise ROF is better in optimisations, content, features (graphics features and some other which brings immesion as diving with flamed engine - to extinguish the fire etc.) and graphics. Sure, ROF has still some issues as a result of optimisations (occasional flickering ground textures over no mans land - for some) but at least Im able to play smoothly unlike CLOD. Every time I fire up CLOD I see ulgy neon landscape and when I hear the stock IL2 sound...then flying over buildings and trees - slowdown...aarghhh....we will se in the future....we will see
Like I said, Im a sim fun "fighting" with die hard fans of ROF and CLOD. Uneven fight on their homeboards.

[LoBiSoMeM]

I would like to place all the f*ing units you sugested but even without them he sim is more or less unplayable on my (not weak) system...
hypnotised die hard fans....you cant fight them even with facts...we have them in ROF too

The "fact" is that I'm running CloD OK in my very simple rig, WITHOUT ANY COMPLEX TWEAK!!!

See one of my videos recorded with fraps, actual gameplay:

vtgul0A8l8w

Better graphics than RoF in every aspect, sorry to say. And I like a lot RoF!

Maybe it's time to people ignore this kind of crap, "performance unplayable in my great rig"... It' a lie in actual development of CloD.

[ATAG_Doc]

@Strike - OK well see CLOD in year ot two...Im all eyes and ears

@Bliss - please dont take this as an attack on CLODs devs...its just, Im not able to play this sim with my rig (which is far from weak). Whatever I did (tweaks) etc Im able to play decently with med to low (and that is over sea) and that sucks. Neon landscape is ugly, AA is not working at distance (properly). External engine sounds are stock il2-like.
What I like is FM and DM (and DM effects) and cockpit textures. But thats all. This sim needs to grow fast or will die. It need huge optimisation rework and more content.
about ROF - hehe we both know cons and pros....my biggest issues being limited NO of units available for online war and retarded view system (which is fixed now). Fm fixes are comin as I heard. Otherwise ROF is better in optimisations, content, features (graphics features and some other which brings immesion as diving with flamed engine - to extinguish the fire etc.) and graphics. Sure, ROF has still some issues as a result of optimisations (occasional flickering ground textures over no mans land - for some) but at least Im able to play smoothly unlike CLOD. Every time I fire up CLOD I see ulgy neon landscape and when I hear the stock IL2 sound...then flying over buildings and trees - slowdown...aarghhh....we will se in the future....we will see
Like I said, Im a sim fun "fighting" with die hard fans of ROF and CLOD. Uneven fight on their homeboards.

I stand corrected. Your hardware issues are no ones issues on this board. Especially not the Devs problem.

So what would you like us to for you? Take up a collection on these forums to buy some hardware for you that will run it?

[Davy TASB]

Better graphics than RoF in every aspect, sorry to say. And I like a lot RoF!



Even flying in the rain???

:rolleyes:

PS/.. Nice vid, shame about the "music". :D

[LoBiSoMeM]

Even flying in the rain???

:rolleyes:

PS/.. Nice vid, shame about the "music". :D

Well, people talk a lot about "cartonish" in CloD... If we start to discuss rain effects in RoF, will be better to draw a Graphic Novel.

Let's wait to see how rain will be handled in CloD, as complex weather system.

[ATAG_Doc]

Patton ordered the Chaplain of the 3rd Army to write a prayer for good weather.

Why did he do that?

[ElAurens]

You must not know much about old IL2 or the new one. You could damage a cockpit in IL2 almost 10 years ago. You can't even do that in ROF now. ROF's DM flat out sucks ass. You can lawn dart your plane at 300MPH straight into the ground and the fuselage is still intact. I mean LOL. You can aim a gunner directly at a pilot (both planes stationary) and it will take you 4 to 5 bullets to kill someone regardless of where the bullet hits. The only thing ROF has is wings that bend when they break.

IL2COD has easily 10x the details 10x the DM and 10x the content of ROF. And you say ROF has more features? Are you for real? ROF doesn't even simulate the different machine guns or the ballistics for the different weapons. You'd think with only a few different guns, they'd be able to at least do that one? Guess what? Old IL2 even does this. And speaking of features, just check out IL2's FMB compared to the ME. ROF is on it's 3rd year and IL2COD on it's initial release has literally 50 times the amount of objects available to use. Heck IL2's vehicles even all have different serial numbers when you place them. ROF has a grossly limited game engine. That's why the trenches that were actually full in WW1 are completely empty in ROF. Try to fill them up with sparingly low amounts of objects and a mission won't even load in ROF. Now take IL2 or IL2COD and place 1000's of objects and 1000's of planes and it will load. You can't do 1/20th of that with ROF. And anyone that thinks ROF was good on release must not have been an online player. Our squad waited for months for a patch that would even allow you to play the game for more than 10 minutes without the master browser going down, which btw, still goes down! And in it's 3rd year of development, the most people you can have on a single online server (AI included) is around 50 planes because the server crashes or the master browser disconnects. Heck, ROF just introduced engine smoke, a further object distance, and fog during the time of day. This is all stuff that came from IL2 lol.

ROF has a heck of a long way to catch up to the DM and details of 10 year old IL2, let alone IL2COD. Obviously Cliffs isn't perfect and obviously it's being worked on, but to say ROF even holds a candle to it is laughable. ROF is a 1vs1 FPS plane shooter. It's game engine will never simulate flying during the 1st world war. IL2COD/IL246 on the other hand is not limited and can simulate whatever you can possibly imagine in the form of a mission. The newly released career mode is essentially a picture book with some medals to win. If you actually think any of those missions have 1/100th of the stuff going on in the ground of WWI, you better open a history book. Because you definitely won't find them in game.

I'm not disagreeing that IL2COD isn't working properly. It's got a huge amount of bugs that WILL BE fixed. But ROF is still trying to implement things that a 10 year old sim has (old IL2). When it gets to that point, maybe they can try to get some of the details from the new IL2. Until then, to say ROF has anywhere near the features or detail of IL2 is flat out laughable.


Thank you sir. If I had posted that, and believe me I wanted to, the RoF fan boy hit squad would have been in here two posts later to trash the post.

When I was still flying RoF, it was a great sim for flying around and looking at an impressionist post card picture of the French country side. But a combat flight sim it was not. Apparently it still isn't. Such a pity as I really did want to see it become as good as IL2.

Once CloD gets over this premature release it will be the sim to end all sims...

[JG52Krupi]

Once CloD gets over this premature release it will be the sim to end all sims...

Damn it I have lost my fire suit, since you started this one I am going to pinch yours ElAurens :-P

[Tvrdi]

I stand corrected. Your hardware issues are no ones issues on this board. Especially not the Devs problem.

So what would you like us to for you? Take up a collection on these forums to buy some hardware for you that will run it?

hardware issues? WTF? Im playin all other sims fine....

[Sven]

Thank you sir. If I had posted that, and believe me I wanted to, the RoF fan boy hit squad would have been in here two posts later to trash the post.

Funny, I had the exact same thoughts, great post Bliss, 100 % agreed.

[Strike]

LoL...

Sorry for the troll, it's not intended, but since we are on the ROF topic, I just fired up the new career and about 10 minutes into the first mission the entire game crashed :rolleyes: . Now this career mode is on hold until the next patch.

[JimmyBlonde]

ROF's DM flat out sucks ass.

You must either be joking or just plain ignorant.

RoFs' DM is understated in ways I'll admit but Il-2s' damage model is definitely overstated. Set up a mission in FMB and have a tiny jeep roll into a 4-engine bomber and then tell me how great Il-2s' DM/physics is.

You have to remember that the aircraft in RoF aren't flying petrol bombs like WW2 fighters, they carry a small amount of fuel and are made from wood and canvas. The explosion modelling in RoF takes that into account.

Spontaneous explosions and one-hit wonder kills are for fantasy land. They are things that are exceptional IRL but in the Il-2 world they occur so frequently as to become monotonous.

Another example, taxiing into a building at 3mph in RoF does not cause aircraft to be either launched 80ft into the air or magically explode like it does in 1946.

The physics and DM for RoF eats 1946 for breakfast.

Il-2s' damage model is weak, it raised the standard back in the day but now it is fairly primitive. Take aileron and elevator damage for example, every time these are damaged you lose both surfaces at once and your trim for that control surface. How is this superior exactly? How is constantly losing your pilot to splash-damage any better?

I'll tell you,

It's better for whiners in MP who want to kill everything with one shot from their wonder-cannons is how.

Here's some "realistic" Il-2 DM for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDlWizuJj5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jP3IS0mQOY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yOJwS4qq4w

HSFX 5.0.1s' expert mode improves 1946 out of sight in this respect, anyone still playing 1946 should check it out since it at least it fixes the tissue-paper planes issue as far as combat goes and actually makes the FMs' challenging.

CloDs' DM looks superb but has Oleg put away the nitro-glycerine coating on all objects?

[ElAurens]

RoF's DM is just plain crude compared to CloD's. In fact the DM in RoF is one of the big reasons (beyond the idiotic business model) that I quit the thing.

[JimmyBlonde]

The aircraft are crude you git, they have about a quarter of the systems that a 1940's fighter does.

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

lol

[SNAFU]

Well, CloD DM is nicely animated but somewhat laughable, if you explode when the wind drifts your tail over a runway light. It is still the same old mechanism as in 1946, just touch an object and explode. And it`s fun how the damaged 2-Mot-AI keeps its station flawlessly and follows every stunt manouver without tailfin, one left elevator, ailron and one engine gone. Ok, the AI has simplefied DM/FM, but would be nice if they would have a DM/FM at all. We should face that our main opponent will be AI, otherwise the 20 online players cannot populate the map and will stay entertained.

Therefore I wouldn´t call CloD DM a masterpiece, it`s nice to look at, but nothing more, but I hope that will change.

[ATAG_Bliss]

You must either be joking or just plain ignorant.

RoFs' DM is understated in ways I'll admit but Il-2s' damage model is definitely overstated. Set up a mission in FMB and have a tiny jeep roll into a 4-engine bomber and then tell me how great Il-2s' DM/physics is.

You have to remember that the aircraft in RoF aren't flying petrol bombs like WW2 fighters, they carry a small amount of fuel and are made from wood and canvas. The explosion modelling in RoF takes that into account.

Spontaneous explosions and one-hit wonder kills are for fantasy land. They are things that are exceptional IRL but in the Il-2 world they occur so frequently as to become monotonous.

Another example, taxiing into a building at 3mph in RoF does not cause aircraft to be either launched 80ft into the air or magically explode like it does in 1946.

The physics and DM for RoF eats 1946 for breakfast.

Il-2s' damage model is weak, it raised the standard back in the day but now it is fairly primitive. Take aileron and elevator damage for example, every time these are damaged you lose both surfaces at once and your trim for that control surface. How is this superior exactly? How is constantly losing your pilot to splash-damage any better?

I'll tell you,

It's better for whiners in MP who want to kill everything with one shot from their wonder-cannons is how.

Here's some "realistic" Il-2 DM for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDlWizuJj5Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jP3IS0mQOY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yOJwS4qq4w

HSFX 5.0.1s' expert mode improves 1946 out of sight in this respect, anyone still playing 1946 should check it out since it at least it fixes the tissue-paper planes issue as far as combat goes and actually makes the FMs' challenging.

CloDs' DM looks superb but has Oleg put away the nitro-glycerine coating on all objects?

The only person here who's ignorant is you. Fly a ROF plane straight into the ground at 300mph and the "wood and canvas" fuselage is still there. It would be shattered into a million pieces in actuality. Also showing videos of IL2 that are from versions 5 or 6 years ago to prove your point, only further proves mine. And your "one shot in a million video" was from a guy flying on easy gunnery settings.

If you've ever seen a warbird come in to fast on a landing and hit the deck, the plane 9 times out of 10 explodes. I don't think I have to post some tragic youtube videos to show this. You simply can not do anything to a ROF plane other than break it's wings off. The fuselage will always be there regardless of what you hit. Nothing in the cockpit can be damaged at all.

The ground objects, building, trees, in IL2 don't break when you hit them. It's always been this way. So considering those objects are basically immovable, when a plane runs into them or an object runs into the plane, it's going to be a critical hit. There is no crumple zones in IL2. And depending on where it hits the plane may very well completely destroy itself. But I don't think that's really much of an argument considering the DM I care about is when I'm actually in the air flying. You can actually kill a pilot in IL2 with one bullet. You can actually cut the elevator cables, rudder cables, and aileron cables in IL2.

Either way it's funny for the ROF fanboys to compare their DM to 10+ year old sim. One day they might get there.

[Baron]

Deja Vu anyone?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLvLcawlH0&feature=related




Tells me that its not "them" (game developers) that is the problem, "we" are.


Even if bugs/problems is enoying, many need to learn the meaning of patience.


ATTENTION: this is not an attempt at making fun of RoF. Just showing that "we" as a community forget real quick and, seemingly, suffers from multiple personality disorder sometimes.(to often imo)

[JimmyBlonde]

The only person here who's ignorant is you. Fly a ROF plane straight into the ground at 300mph and the "wood and canvas" fuselage is still there. It would be shattered into a million pieces in actuality. Also showing videos of IL2 that are from versions 5 or 6 years ago to prove your point, only further proves mine. And your "one shot in a million video" was from a guy flying on easy gunnery settings.


I doubt the terminal velocity of any WW1 fighter even reaches 300mph but it is true that they don't make a dramatic explosion when they go in. One small flaw there I'll concede but the overall model as it applies to actually flying the plane, rather than one piddling visual effect, is superb.

Also, Il-2 stock, the un-modded version of the game was at its' prime 5 or 6 years ago. It has not progressed at all since then in terms of DM or physics.


If you've ever seen a warbird come in to fast on a landing and hit the deck, the plane 9 times out of 10 explodes.


Only if videos you are watching are produced by Steven Spielberg. If the aircraft explodes it's not a landing, an aircraft may explode after a bad landing if the fuel tanks are ruptured but it has to be a very hard landing to do that and most people consider landings that hard to be called crashes.

But I don't think that's really much of an argument considering the DM I care about is when I'm actually in the air flying.

Contradict yourself much? Or do you consider nose-diving into the dirt at 300mph "flying" like you consider exploding on impact "landing"?


Either way it's funny for the ROF fanboys to compare their DM to 10+ year old sim. One day they might get there.

What is funny is to come here and, rather than seeing the actual aspects of simulation in terms of DM and physics compared in this thread, to see instead the effects of physics and damage on the aircraft themselves when the aircraft compared are as different as chalk and cheese.

Anyway, that aside there are many things that CoD could benefit from if they took a look at RoF and there are many things which RoF benefited from by looking at Il-2.

I'm not here to laud one over the other. I have bought every release from the Il-2 series since the original game and have followed it avidly, despite it's glaring short-comings, because it was the best thing going. I guess that makes me an Il-2 "fanboy" right?

I'm becoming an avid "fanboy" of RoF as well since it has raised the bar once more and I look forward to becoming an avid "fanboy" of CloD when it nudges the bar a little higher.

The reason I'm here is that I want to see Olegs' dream realized but I know that this won't be achieved by pandering to CloDs virtues and ignoring its vices, especially when many of those vices have gone over a decade with nothing but excuses to address them. Creating a simulation is a constant compromise and I want as much as anyone here to see CloD get the balance right.

[Ze-Jamz]

Deja Vu anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoLvLcawlH0&feature=related



Dude seriously.. this vid gets me everytime LMAO

[Trumper]

:( Unfortunately i have seen a few aircraft crash and actually only one [P38 Californian Cutie ] burnt and that was after impact ,fuel ignition.

[Tvrdi]

Deja Vu anyone?]
Tells me that its not "them" (game developers) that is the problem, "we" are.


Even if bugs/problems is enoying, many need to learn the meaning of patience.


ATTENTION: this is not an attempt at making fun of RoF. Just showing that "we" as a community forget real quick and, seemingly, suffers from multiple personality disorder sometimes.(to often imo)

first of all this is very old...now we are at 1.019 and most of the issues (mentioned in the video are FIXED).....secondly, even with all the flaws in optimisations, ROF was playable at the release FOR MOST FOLKS unlike CLOD (and that is on MID RANGE RIGS!)....graphics are still (talking about landscape) better IMHO...I really dont like neon landscape in IL2 (not to mention porked AA when looking from distance). I too hope CLOD will get fixed sometime...I love sims and genre...and I spent money on this....

[Thee_oddball]

FYI v1.2 is from 2002

S!