Yet another week of running in the dark.

[Winger]

Or did i miss anything? I for my part would greatly apprechiate to at least get just a few lines about progress and when the time the next patchrelease is aimed to be. Especially since the game is pretty messed iup right now for many people (if not all) the mainly play MP.
But running completely in the dark is pretty shitty dear DEVteam!

Winger

[Ze-Jamz]

Agreed

[6BL Bird-Dog]

Or did i miss anything? I for my part would greatly apprechiate to at least get just a few lines about progress and when the time the next patchrelease is aimed to be. Especially since the game is pretty messed iup right now for many people (if not all) the mainly play MP.
But running completely in the dark is pretty shitty dear DEVteam!

Winger
Seconded .....

[FlyingShark]

Indeed, I completely understand that they can't give us a whole story each week but looking at the state the sim is still in, despite all the improvements, we should get some small heads up from time to time.

~S~

[Doc_uk]

Were all domed, i tell ya, DOMED
:rolleyes:

[Ze-Jamz]

Were all domed, i tell ya, DOMED
:rolleyes:

Doomed or Domed? ;)

[roadczar]

Were all domed, i tell ya, DOMED
:rolleyes:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=domed

:grin:

[Insuber]

So, speak for yourself :)

[Anvilfolk]

Jesus... do we need the dev team to babysit us? Go do something else and don't think about it.

There are no realistic or definite ETAs in software development, deal with it. We know what they're working on, and when something comes out, it'll be out.

[Tvrdi]

Jesus... do we need the dev team to babysit us? Go do something else and don't think about it.

you meant - Do we need to babysit this sim?

[Winger]

Jesus... do we need the dev team to babysit us? Go do something else and don't think about it.

There are no realistic or definite ETAs in software development, deal with it. We know what they're working on, and when something comes out, it'll be out.

i said "aimed to be", not when it will be ULTIMATETOTALLYREALISTICDEFINATELYFORSURE:P
You smart (ie):-P

Winger

PS: I am not asking them to everyday tell us whats going on in their office. But 2 sentences every week that wether say: "We are working and getting close to solve problem XY" OR "We nailed problem XY and are currently working to resolve it. At the moment we cant tell any ETA". Or something like that. THIS in fact would serve the community to feel informed and threads like this would not even appear on the forums.

[Albtraum23]

Jesus... do we need the dev team to babysit us? Go do something else and don't think about it.

There are no realistic or definite ETAs in software development, deal with it. We know what they're working on, and when something comes out, it'll be out.

They have my Money !
We know what they're working on.
Realy ???

[609_Huetz]

Easy equation, since quite a few guys tend to lurk around these forums, looking for news:

Good Community Management = News about Fixes,Updates, etc. = Sales

Bad Community Management = No News = Less Sales

Easy as that. It's one thing to release a broken product because you are running short on funds or your publisher wants it out, but it's a completely different thing to drop a blanket over the mess and pretend it is not there. I do work a lot as well, yet when I have to do stuff like this, I usually do find some 2-3 minutes to write an email or a memo, no matter how busy I am. It's called marketing, something that should have by now been imported to Russia, just like into any other country. No offence, but it's not that hard.

No need for the smarta**ery "they don't need to babysit us".

[philip.ed]

Maybe it's just a sign that they are incredibly busy? Luthier said that if he isn't around the forums a lot, then it's a sign that they are hard at work.
Regarding a forum manager, then that will come when the team decide to introduce him/her. Whenever this will be only they can say. I am sure that they all know what the community wants/expects, so I don't think we need to worry that they are completely detached (despite what CloD's release might say about them).

[roadczar]

Jesus... do we need the dev team to babysit us? Go do something else and don't think about it.

There are no realistic or definite ETAs in software development, deal with it. We know what they're working on, and when something comes out, it'll be out.

:rolleyes: The fact that 1C has an enthusiast community that is interested in knowing the progress and is willing to work with the vendor is a huge plus.

This is called customer/vendor relationship management. A little communication goes a long way and provides a lot of value for minimum effort.

As far as this comment "no realistic or definite ETAs in software development," I just have to laugh. I hope you never work on any of my projects. LOL

[Stanger]

I agree on the need of info.


Here is an example of another sim keeping the customers informed. Look at the dates the Producer posted.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=71156

[skouras]

Wags for DCS-A10C
Good example:-)
but i thing Luthier is very busy right now for the next update:-)
Don't worry mates
he will reply soon:-)

[Seeker]

A weekly update is the least they can do.

[roadczar]

Wags for DCS-A10C
Good example:-)


1c could learn a lot from DCS!

[skouras]

1c could learn a lot from DCS!

you mean Eagle Dynamics
cause Dcs is a project:-)

[roadczar]

you mean Eagle Dynamics
cause Dcs is a project:-)

Yes, thanks.

[Doc_uk]

Doomed or Domed? ;)Doh:grin:

[Tree_UK]

Maybe it's just a sign that they are incredibly busy? Luthier said that if he isn't around the forums a lot, then it's a sign that they are hard at work.
Regarding a forum manager, then that will come when the team decide to introduce him/her. Whenever this will be only they can say. I am sure that they all know what the community wants/expects, so I don't think we need to worry that they are completely detached (despite what CloD's release might say about them).

I think it's more of a sign that they appear to have little concern about the folk who purchase their product(s), it seems it's all about the money now, I guess it has to be, all the work being done at this moment in time is aimed purely at American sales.
Have we ever had an official apology and some sort of explanation as to why we were sold a product that they knew was unfinished, yet at the same time continued to deceive us right up to release? I'm certain If they truly cared we would have had that humble statement from the dev's, not even a 'sorry guys' from Oleg whose been lucky to have enjoyed such a loyal following for all these years. I'm sure that had they had the decency to make such a statement that they would of been forgiven by the mass majority for the poor state of the game upon release. Until that statement is made then I personally have little trust or faith in what this current team do or say, 'actions speak louder than words'.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Or did i miss anything? I for my part would greatly apprechiate to at least get just a few lines about progress and when the time the next patchrelease is aimed to be. Especially since the game is pretty messed iup right now for many people (if not all) the mainly play MP.
But running completely in the dark is pretty shitty dear DEVteam!

Winger

That's basically what I was asking here, http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23341, but maybe I was trying to be too nice.:rolleyes:

[Ze-Jamz]

Im sure this happened last time and Luth replied with 'they are hiring someone to take care of the news part'.. you would think by now what the paying public are asking them would get...an update, not a patch...an update i.e news..

I dont think that its unreasonable thst every 7 days we get an update on fixes etc...

For people reading these forums and havent got the game yet it could be the difference as to whether he goes out tomoz and buys it.

just dont understand the mindset

[philip.ed]

I think it's more of a sign that they appear to have little concern about the folk who purchase their product(s), it seems it's all about the money now, I guess it has to be, all the work being done at this moment in time is aimed purely at American sales.
Have we ever had an official apology and some sort of explanation as to why we were sold a product that they knew was unfinished, yet at the same time continued to deceive us right up to release? I'm certain If they truly cared we would have had that humble statement from the dev's, not even a 'sorry guys' from Oleg whose been lucky to have enjoyed such a loyal following for all these years. I'm sure that had they had the decency to make such a statement that they would of been forgiven by the mass majority for the poor state of the game upon release. Until that statement is made then I personally have little trust or faith in what this current team do or say, 'actions speak louder than words'.

I agree that it's vital; but no one has any idea what's going on at their end (it's purely speculative) so we can only really trust that they will have learnt from 10 years experience to suit the community in whatever way possible, and work prosperously with them. :cool:

[RocketDog]

Maybe it's just a sign that they are incredibly busy? Luthier said that if he isn't around the forums a lot, then it's a sign that they are hard at work.

Alternatively, it could be a sign that they are working on patches with the same lethargic and unproductive sloth that they displayed in development over the last five years?

[philip.ed]

Could be. Maybe they've captured the Easter Bunny? We honestly have no real idea (yet) :-P

[Stanger]

Could be. Maybe they've captured the Easter Bunny? We honestly have no real idea (yet) :-P

That is it we do not even have a clue. That is the problem.

[kalimba]

I think it's more of a sign that they appear to have little concern about the folk who purchase their product(s), it seems it's all about the money now, I guess it has to be, all the work being done at this moment in time is aimed purely at American sales.
Have we ever had an official apology and some sort of explanation as to why we were sold a product that they knew was unfinished, yet at the same time continued to deceive us right up to release? I'm certain If they truly cared we would have had that humble statement from the dev's, not even a 'sorry guys' from Oleg whose been lucky to have enjoyed such a loyal following for all these years. I'm sure that had they had the decency to make such a statement that they would of been forgiven by the mass majority for the poor state of the game upon release. Until that statement is made then I personally have little trust or faith in what this current team do or say, 'actions speak louder than words'.

Ok...For fun, I'll give it a shot.... :

Oleg had a contract as the lead designer with UBI and had to lead the project to the finish line and release it. Things went wrong at a personnal level with those two parts. Financing would be stoped unless Oleg finishes the project that went waaaaaay over time and budget, mainly due to Oleg 's passion for "overdetailed" nit-picking accuracy- historicaly- correct of and non-essential priority things.... :rolleyes:
Oleg's departure was a long time ago decision so the solution was to get rid of Oleg's contract and release the game a.s.a.p... Then finally Luthier was promoted to Lead designer and went under contract with UBI to finish the project. Then he got more money and time and new staff.
These are not patches that we have from time to time, these are parts of never before done things in the game that have to be patched after release.
Luthier is not patching the game, he is completing it....
So North American release is the last hope of making some success and money out of this game...Lots of pressure....;)

That is, of course, pure speculation, but I've seen that scenario before !

SAlute !

[Rather peeved]

I think it's more of a sign that they appear to have little concern about the folk who purchase their product(s), it seems it's all about the money now, I guess it has to be, all the work being done at this moment in time is aimed purely at American sales.
Have we ever had an official apology and some sort of explanation as to why we were sold a product that they knew was unfinished, yet at the same time continued to deceive us right up to release? I'm certain If they truly cared we would have had that humble statement from the dev's, not even a 'sorry guys' from Oleg whose been lucky to have enjoyed such a loyal following for all these years. I'm sure that had they had the decency to make such a statement that they would of been forgiven by the mass majority for the poor state of the game upon release. Until that statement is made then I personally have little trust or faith in what this current team do or say, 'actions speak louder than words'.

I agree. it would be churlish to be demanding updates every week if they had produced a complete and fucntioning game, but the fact is they didn't - they produced a game that was fundamentally broken.

until the game is running smoothly and as advertised, you would think they would be bending over backwards to keep some very angry customers happy.

[the Dutchman]

It's going under,just like Silent hunter 5!(with 1 difference,SH5 was meant to do that..):mad:

[hiro]

Yeah I'm going to have to agree with whats being said. I mean I still am thankful for the weekly updates and devs keeping us in the loop that time. And the hard work they've done.

But this has to be a really nerfed (botched / broken etc) release of a game. Especially one that is supposed to be a successor to IL-2 1946.

Maybe the US release will be better off and with things fixed but still; they shouldn't of released it.


Maybe it could be some new marketing plot . . . The polished game thing is expected.

How about a dramatic problem release, that kicks everyone in the nuts / ovaries, a donkey hoof blow to the stomach.

It attaches to the people like a all action / horror / glorifying the criminal movie does.

"CLiffs of Dover failure sucks." its in everyone's mind. Then US release. Has a well polished game. Distribution problems is fixed. We get the devs talking back to the community like old days.

Because of a tragedy its bond everyone together.

But me, I'd just gone and made a kick ass product, that works, and release it when it's ready and come out a super hero from the start. None of this dark knight junk.

Hey devs just a lil prayer going your way. even if the game was released and it was all good, you still need it :D

[Tiger27]

Ok...For fun, I'll give it a shot.... :

Oleg had a contract as the lead designer with UBI and had to lead the project to the finish line and release it. Things went wrong at a personnal level with those two parts. Financing would be stoped unless Oleg finishes the project that went waaaaaay over time and budget, mainly due to Oleg 's passion for "overdetailed" nit-picking accuracy- historicaly- correct of and non-essential priority things.... :rolleyes:
Oleg's departure was a long time ago decision so the solution was to get rid of Oleg's contract and release the game a.s.a.p... Then finally Luthier was promoted to Lead designer and went under contract with UBI to finish the project. Then he got more money and time and new staff.
These are not patches that we have from time to time, these are parts of never before done things in the game that have to be patched after release.
Luthier is not patching the game, he is completing it....
So North American release is the last hope of making some success and money out of this game...Lots of pressure....;)

That is, of course, pure speculation, but I've seen that scenario before !

SAlute !

You could be right, it's been released early, thats a no brainer, odd thing is for some of us it works quite well, but some of the mistakes they make are hard to understand, it looks like they need some direction, I mean how did they let the 109pp hotfix come out having fixed the lever direction, but reversed the response required by the player and slowed it down to about 1/4 speed, its been mentioned before, but surely someone tested it and if so how did it get released, it's not an intermittent thing, it is broken for everyone?

Tree, an apology isnt really required, well at least I dont require one, words are cheap anyway, they havent run over your dog or anything serious it is just a $50 game, but what we do need is the outstanding issues to be fixed, without creating new ones (QA), then they can start on getting the FM's, weather, radio and all the goodies fixed.

But they do need to get their act together and in a hurry.

[Rattlehead]

Luthier is not patching the game, he is completing it....


That's probably true.
Anyway, no use speculating on what went on before, as that's history now.

To the topic, we know the game is being worked on, but I'd like to know what aspects are being worked on.
What is the basic roadmap for the next month or two?

Hopefully the communty manager won't be absent for too long.

[Rattlehead]

it is just a $50 game

Mmm...a lot of people spent good money on expensive hardware specifically for this game, and besides it's the monumental disappointment of finding out what state the game is in rather than what state it was supposed to be in.

I'm not bashing the game or anyone involved in the making of the game, don't get me wrong. But to a lot of people it is much more than just another game.
But I agree, no apology is neccessary. Fixing the game up to scratch is all that's required.

[TonyD]

...

Hopefully the communty manager won't be absent for too long.

I think that it’s particularly disappointing to not have heard from this person yet – luthier did state that his/her appointment was to keep us informed to prevent the propagation of “wild rumours” based on speculation. As others have said, a simple weekly update even to state they are yet to resolve a certain problem, although not ideal, is a damn site better than nothing.

[Ze-Jamz]

All i can say is if i were 'thinking' of getting this game and visiting here to get some info i would NOT buy it based on the antics of the DEVS..

I couldnt give a rats ass if theyve had no sleep for 4 weeks, i would like a weekly update nothing more on progress on a broken game i purchased quite a while ago now..

Its not a big ask and no one can say it is, its plain buisness

[Trooper117]

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading here from what I assume are adults..
I bought the game., it doesn't play as well as I would like on my system.
I have worked out by my own experience, and by reading through many threads on several forums that:

a. The game has not been released in a finished state.
b. My system needs upgrading so I can enjoy what I have.
c. Subsequent patches have not improved the game for me.
d. The developers seem to be making efforts to rectify the faults.

Now, do I expect some sort of 'apology' from the devs that the points above have highlighted?
Of course not.. I didn't have to buy the game.. I could have waited until most of the faults have been rectified before purchasing.
I've bought games in the past that worked fine, but guess what? I didn't like them.. they were not what I was expecting..
Funnily enough, as I didn't like what I had purchased, they were shelved or given away..
It never even crossed my mind to demand or expect some sort of apology!
What a pathetic politicaly correct miserable world we have turned into.. Pah!

[robtek]

1+

I'll drink to that, Trooper117

[TonyD]

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading here from what I assume are adults..

Trooper, if this were ‘just a game’, then you would be quite correct – we could toss it away as a failure and move on to something else while the developer went bankrupt. However, this ‘game’ is a long-anticipated and much-hyped replacement for the most popular WW-II combat sim ever, and as such has a very devoted and loyal fan base who feel (quite rightly in some respects) somewhat cheated by the lack of previously promised regular updates on the progress of much-needed fixes.

I don’t group myself into this category as my passion lies with racing sims, but I can definitely identify with the sentiment. A realistic fact is that there is no alternative to CloD, unlike most other games (including racing sims), and this produces the noted reaction to the lack news from the developer, as well as the resulting rumours.

[JG53Frankyboy]

i personaly dont need update infos from the developers (i remember the WIPs before CoD release...................) .
As long they do thier work - release workable GAME updates, all is ok.

If not, game will not be used. Plain and simple. pitty for the money, but no catastroph, at least for me ;)

[Bobb4]

Honestly I am not disappointed at all.
I read Tree's threads before release and knew what to expect.

The game is what I expected a half finished work of art.
It will be completed one way or another.

As for weekly updates, a patch is worth a thousand words. :):):)

[Trooper117]

Trooper, if this were ‘just a game’, then you would be quite correct – we could toss it away as a failure and move on to something else while the developer went bankrupt. However, this ‘game’ is a long-anticipated and much-hyped replacement for the most popular WW-II combat sim ever, and as such has a very devoted and loyal fan base who feel (quite rightly in some respects) somewhat cheated by the lack of previously promised regular updates on the progress of much-needed fixes.

I don’t group myself into this category as my passion lies with racing sims, but I can definitely identify with the sentiment. A realistic fact is that there is no alternative to CloD, unlike most other games (including racing sims), and this produces the noted reaction to the lack news from the developer, as well as the resulting rumours.

I've had IL2 since day one.. I have several other flight simulation 'games'.. and I've been waiting for this game, and despite it's complexity is still a game, for years.. I can't tell you how much time I've spent on forums leading up to it's release, anticipating a monumental leap forward in all of it's aspects.

I'm what you could call 'old school' I guess.. A full career in the armed forces, (now, climb into a full military simulator, and then come and tell me that this is not a game..) Plus, I've always been taught that you don't whinge or whine at what life throws at you.. you just make the best of what you have and get on with it. I carry that philosophy with me in whatever I do, and that includes playing 'games'..

Some of the posters here should get themselves into a high performance prop driven aircraft, and throw it all over the sky in some actual WWII combat tactics, and then they might get some perspective reference a computer game versus real life, and actualy understand that what they appear to have wrapped their whole lives around is just a very realistic and demanding game and nothing more..

I love the whole 'flight sim' genre, in particular WWII, but I don't turn into some sort of crusading avenger just because a game I have bought has not lived up to its expectations.. there are more real life and death issues I deal with that have a meaningful impact on my life..

Jesus.. look at me rabbiting on. Better get off this rather shaky soap box! :grin:

[Ze-Jamz]

Well i certainly dont want an apology..

All i would like was weekly updates on fixes or what not

[philip.ed]

I WANT I WANT! WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE.... (that's it in a nutshell really)

Well said Trooper. Of course we'd all love weekly, if not daily, updates! But we have to understand that whilst we ourselves can try and guess what's going on with the team, only they know it themselves, so we have to respect their business model and get along with life.
This, as Trooper said, is just a game! It won't become out holygrail overnight, so enjoy life more and watch the slow transition into something amazing. At the end of the day, if the sim doesn't go under, that is all that will, and can, happen.

[Ze-Jamz]

I WANT I WANT! WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE.... (that's it in a nutshell really)

Well said Trooper. Of course we'd all love weekly, if not daily, updates! But we have to understand that whilst we ourselves can try and guess what's going on with the team, only they know it themselves, so we have to respect their business model and get along with life.
This, as Trooper said, is just a game! It won't become out holygrail overnight, so enjoy life more and watch the slow transition into something amazing. At the end of the day, if the sim doesn't go under, that is all that will, and can, happen.

Well as well as going out with my GF having nice meals and drinks or maybe just taking my FirebladeRR8 out for a spin or even going to Airsoft and having a day there which i would sum up as enjoying life...

I would still like a weekly update..

i thank you

[philip.ed]

I know, we all would, but I think the team already knows this (hence why Luthier said a forum manager would be installed).
At the end of the day, these topics have been done to death. The question is though whether this kind of pressure has any effect or not. Maybe we should take it as a good sign that the team have better things to do than post here? :cool:

(and sorry for the caps, it made me sound really rude).

[kristorf]

I've had IL2 since day one.. I have several other flight simulation 'games'.. and I've been waiting for this game, and despite it's complexity is still a game, for years.. I can't tell you how much time I've spent on forums leading up to it's release, anticipating a monumental leap forward in all of it's aspects.

I'm what you could call 'old school' I guess.. A full career in the armed forces, (now, climb into a full military simulator, and then come and tell me that this is not a game..) Plus, I've always been taught that you don't whinge or whine at what life throws at you.. you just make the best of what you have and get on with it. I carry that philosophy with me in whatever I do, and that includes playing 'games'..

Some of the posters here should get themselves into a high performance prop driven aircraft, and throw it all over the sky in some actual WWII combat tactics, and then they might get some perspective reference a computer game versus real life, and actualy understand that what they appear to have wrapped their whole lives around is just a very realistic and demanding game and nothing more..

I love the whole 'flight sim' genre, in particular WWII, but I don't turn into some sort of crusading avenger just because a game I have bought has not lived up to its expectations.. there are more real life and death issues I deal with that have a meaningful impact on my life..



Top words Dave

[roadczar]

Despite all the pontificating :rolleyes: the original complaint was rather simple. ;)
Where is the freaking update? :-P

[Capt Backasswards]

Maybe some should pay better attention to Luthier's post:

"Most importantly, please don't take the frequency of my visits as an indication of anything right now. As a matter of fact, if you see me here posting a lot, that's the best clue that we are NOT working as hard as we should. All of us at 1C:Maddox Games, 1C Softclub, and Ubisoft, are fully committed to the game and to the series, and like we always said, we will continue to support it with patches, add-ons and sequels in the coming months and years."

Taken from this post:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=22887

[Winger]

Maybe some should pay better attention to Luthier's post:

"Most importantly, please don't take the frequency of my visits as an indication of anything right now. As a matter of fact, if you see me here posting a lot, that's the best clue that we are NOT working as hard as we should. All of us at 1C:Maddox Games, 1C Softclub, and Ubisoft, are fully committed to the game and to the series, and like we always said, we will continue to support it with patches, add-ons and sequels in the coming months and years."

Taken from this post:

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=22887

I know this post. But 2 lines a week about the actual status do not even reuire a reading of all the forums. Just a small update is not asked too much and wont keep him off his important work for too long. Thats out of discussion. Really - cmon. Anyone that says diffrent just doesnt get it.
I am employed as well. I write tons of mails everday each with more than 2 sentenses. And i know 2 sentenses dont take longer than like 30 seconds.

Winger

[whatnot]

^This.. managed to post my statement before reading through the thread.

Totally agree on this one. There is no excuse of being too busy to drop atleast a few sentences about the progress every now and then. It takes a few minutes and when recurring bi-weekly or whatever it gives a nice sign of life and faith for the future.

It doesn't have to be groundbreaking news everytime around. Just something in the ballpark of 'were working on X & Y, have problems with Z so currently we got no concrete schedule for next patch release' will do just nicely. But seems like they're not very good at it or just don't care. Let's hope this community manager thing mentioned before will materialize one day.

[whatnot]

I've had IL2 since day one.. I have several other flight simulation 'games'.. and I've been waiting for this game, and despite it's complexity is still a game, for years.. I can't tell you how much time I've spent on forums leading up to it's release, anticipating a monumental leap forward in all of it's aspects.

I'm what you could call 'old school' I guess.. A full career in the armed forces, (now, climb into a full military simulator, and then come and tell me that this is not a game..) Plus, I've always been taught that you don't whinge or whine at what life throws at you.. you just make the best of what you have and get on with it. I carry that philosophy with me in whatever I do, and that includes playing 'games'..

Some of the posters here should get themselves into a high performance prop driven aircraft, and throw it all over the sky in some actual WWII combat tactics, and then they might get some perspective reference a computer game versus real life, and actualy understand that what they appear to have wrapped their whole lives around is just a very realistic and demanding game and nothing more..

I love the whole 'flight sim' genre, in particular WWII, but I don't turn into some sort of crusading avenger just because a game I have bought has not lived up to its expectations.. there are more real life and death issues I deal with that have a meaningful impact on my life..

Jesus.. look at me rabbiting on. Better get off this rather shaky soap box! :grin:

Whether this product known as CloD is called a game, simulation or whatever in between makes no difference. It is the only modern title of it's kind (WW2 CFS) in existance or in development as far as I'm aware of atleast and that's the point that matters. The people enthusiastic for this title can't just jump into the next release waiting around the corner because there is none. So failure of this title may well mean the end of a beloved hobby or jump back to the ancient version already used to death.
So I would imagine one can see the difference between the two despite the prestigious army career.

And indeed it would be great to jump into one of your high fidelity sims or high perf prop planes to play around with whenever you feel like getting a few aviation kicks, but unfortunately that is not an option for many people around here. And I agree whining on things that you can't change or that have been whined to death already makes no sense. But we're not talking about a rainy day or a cripple here, but 5-10 mins weekly investment from a development team. Customer intimacy is not some weird science of the future, but a pretty fundamental part of running a business. So whether it's the trend of the industry or not it's a low hanging fruit with high rewards through customer retention and additional sales.

I'm not as pissed off about CloD as it may sound, it runs pretty well for me. But I not too happy seeing an attitude of trying to get people to shut up 'and fly a prop plane' if they would prefer to get more regular updates on fixing the title they've bought.

[Fragal]

sorry I gotta chime in - have you ever worked in a software house environment or along a journalistic route - there the same principal and that principal is called a deadline. Software and game industries work to deadlines do you seriously believe that they have the time let alone the energy to drop a quick hello onto these forums - no I don't and I do work at a software house I don't think about forums or community when all I'm trying to do is get on with my job - Christ a week goes by without anything and all you can do is whine who cares they are doing the job, at the minute the deadline is the US release and that release is coming soon don't you think the devs are aware of the issues and bugs by now it gets bleated left right and centre every five minutes on these forums silence is good news means they are getting on with the job. It's not that they don't care of course they do you whine about the state of the sim after 6 years of development after less than 2 months of playing grow up and have some faith they've been working for 6 years! don't you think that grates on them too 6 years chaps - 6 years of someone in an office going to work everyday like you do sometimes getting stuck in traffic jams, babies being born family passing away etc - don't you think they've got enough on their plate let them do the job don't depend on luthier to bring you an update every week, just get on with it like they do like I do - I'm not upset i don't care if i get an update every week, live your lives if you can't maybe you should stick with chess it's dependable and the bugs have been worked out.

[whatnot]

sorry I gotta chime in - have you ever worked in a software house environment or along a journalistic route - there the same principal and that principal is called a deadline. Software and game industries work to deadlines do you seriously believe that they have the time let alone the energy to drop a quick hello onto these forums - no I don't and I do work at a software house I don't think about forums or community when all I'm trying to do is get on with my job - Christ a week goes by without anything and all you can do is whine who cares they are doing the job, at the minute the deadline is the US release and that release is coming soon don't you think the devs are aware of the issues and bugs by now it gets bleated left right and centre every five minutes on these forums silence is good news means they are getting on with the job. It's not that they don't care of course they do you whine about the state of the sim after 6 years of development after less than 2 months of playing grow up and have some faith they've been working for 6 years! don't you think that grates on them too 6 years chaps - 6 years of someone in an office going to work everyday like you do sometimes getting stuck in traffic jams, babies being born family passing away etc - don't you think they've got enough on their plate let them do the job don't depend on luthier to bring you an update every week, just get on with it like they do like I do - I'm not upset i don't care if i get an update every week, live your lives if you can't maybe you should stick with chess it's dependable and the bugs have been worked out.

I beg to differ. Posting and update to a customer base often requesting one should be pretty high on the todo list. It is indeed the 5-10 mins a week that would be sufficient to keep the communication flow alive at this stage. Loosing that time will not change anything of importance what comes to the progress they can make with CloD before the US release.

And why would it mean that you need to communicate less the longer you've developed your initial release? If you work on a project for six years, and still have issues after release I think it's even more of a reason to connect with the customers. You need to convice them of the fact that despite we spent so much time on the development we will be quick in fixing the issues instead of spending a long time on it again.

I'm not saying that I would be desperate for updates per se, as there has been pretty frequent patches etc. I'm just saying that frequent customer communication is a fundamental thing in time of 'crisis' (I recon this situation qualifies as such, given the number of issues and scoring from many reviews?). And saying that one would not have the time for it is untrue. It is a matter of priorities and as I see it they should re-prioritize. And I don't mean reading through the all the threads, but communicating actively in a recurring manner. I would even concider making a bug tracker visible for all to see what the devs are aware of.

But it seems that the importance of good communication is understood at Maddox too based on the message of hiring a community manager. So maybe we'll see a change there.

[Ze-Jamz]

sorry I gotta chime in - have you ever worked in a software house environment or along a journalistic route - there the same principal and that principal is called a deadline. Software and game industries work to deadlines do you seriously believe that they have the time let alone the energy to drop a quick hello onto these forums - no I don't and I do work at a software house I don't think about forums or community when all I'm trying to do is get on with my job - Christ a week goes by without anything and all you can do is whine who cares they are doing the job, at the minute the deadline is the US release and that release is coming soon don't you think the devs are aware of the issues and bugs by now it gets bleated left right and centre every five minutes on these forums silence is good news means they are getting on with the job. It's not that they don't care of course they do you whine about the state of the sim after 6 years of development after less than 2 months of playing grow up and have some faith they've been working for 6 years! don't you think that grates on them too 6 years chaps - 6 years of someone in an office going to work everyday like you do sometimes getting stuck in traffic jams, babies being born family passing away etc - don't you think they've got enough on their plate let them do the job don't depend on luthier to bring you an update every week, just get on with it like they do like I do - I'm not upset i don't care if i get an update every week, live your lives if you can't maybe you should stick with chess it's dependable and the bugs have been worked out.

Ahhh my eyes... it burns it burns!

[Tree_UK]

Lets just get some things clear here, its not as if the game was released and after a few weeks the community found a few small bugs that needed fixing, this game was released with the full knowledge by the Dev's that it was not fit for purpose, they knew it had all manner of issues, and sadly they did deliberately mislead us in the run up to release. If an apology is out of the question then in the very least they should be bending over backwards (if they wish to carry on with future products) to keep us informed. Those of you who do not feel an apology is necessary (because its only $50) are just playing into the hands of shoddy software companies who believe they can release any pile of junk through steam without any comebacks, because getting refunds from steam is impossible.

[TonyD]

I think that some here are missing the OP’s point, and others, in that the lack of communication is being targeted, rather than any aspect of the game. To quote from the same post by luthier listed above; “We are however in the process of creating a full-time community manager position and setting up an old team member who will interact with you guys daily, answer questions, and keep you up to date on all events.”

This was something luthier undertook himself, rather than as a response to someone’s request, which was two weeks ago. A short note stating that this was still being planned, or whatever, would renew some faith in their commitment.

[rpgielow]

Lets just get some things clear here, its not as if the game was released and after a few weeks the community found a few small bugs that needed fixing, this game was released with the full knowledge by the Dev's that it was not fit for purpose, they knew it had all manner of issues, and sadly they did deliberately mislead us in the run up to release. If an apology is out of the question then in the very least they should be bending over backwards (if they wish to carry on with future products) to keep us informed. Those of you who do not feel an apology is necessary (because its only $50) are just playing into the hands of shoddy software companies who believe they can release any pile of junk through steam without any comebacks, because getting refunds from steam is impossible.

You are pretty well equiped to run this games :eek: You are having problems with FPS or are you mad about other bugs :confused:

I think we are here as beta testers. You dont need to be smart to see that it is the truth as they are always delaying the USA release date. They just dont call it BETA.

Besides that, I am creating my own training missions on FMB and getting acquainted to the sim while we dont have the final product :)

[Rather peeved]

Lets just get some things clear here, its not as if the game was released and after a few weeks the community found a few small bugs that needed fixing, this game was released with the full knowledge by the Dev's that it was not fit for purpose, they knew it had all manner of issues, and sadly they did deliberately mislead us in the run up to release. If an apology is out of the question then in the very least they should be bending over backwards (if they wish to carry on with future products) to keep us informed. Those of you who do not feel an apology is necessary (because its only $50) are just playing into the hands of shoddy software companies who believe they can release any pile of junk through steam without any comebacks, because getting refunds from steam is impossible.

again I agree. but i must say it's not so much the fact the game was released in such a shoddy state which annoys me, but the fact so many untruths were told in the lead up to release.

i can forgive incompetence or lack of resources or whatever, but i can't stand being bullshi##ed to.

[CharveL]

+2

Wah I don't get regular updates on Luthiers daily bowel movements wah wah...I'm pissed that I wasn't smart enough to wait a week before mortgaging my house to buy it WAH...!!

Get some perspective, find a shelf to put CLoD on and use the few bucks you saved from the Russian exchange rate to buy yourselves some tissues.

[BP_Tailspin]

I’m still waiting for the US release, and hoping for some news/updates. It would be great to here from the team about the US release and how it will be different from all the previous releases.

I was looking forward to this game ..... now I’m not so sure.

[Tiger27]

Lets just get some things clear here, its not as if the game was released and after a few weeks the community found a few small bugs that needed fixing, this game was released with the full knowledge by the Dev's that it was not fit for purpose, they knew it had all manner of issues, and sadly they did deliberately mislead us in the run up to release. If an apology is out of the question then in the very least they should be bending over backwards (if they wish to carry on with future products) to keep us informed. Those of you who do not feel an apology is necessary (because its only $50) are just playing into the hands of shoddy software companies who believe they can release any pile of junk through steam without any comebacks, because getting refunds from steam is impossible.

As your responce fits my comments about not requiring an apology, I will respond, what is this thing you have with apologies, by the way? I know what I would prefer and that is the game working for everyone, apologies would be nice, but worthless if they give up on fixing it.

This rubbish about playing into the hands of shoddy software companies is just that, rubbish, how would an apology from a shoddy software company make you feel better, if they are shoddy they are probably also dodgy and as I said in my post an apology is worth nothing if it isnt backed up with something worthwhile self flaggelation maybe, or a nice spell in the comfy chair.

Too late to do much about how it was released etc, we have already bought it so now lets get it fixed and yes I totally agree a quick update wouldn't hurt, especially after a hot fix that was anything but a fix, then we get 10 days of silence, the team at Maddox games really needs to get themselves organised, or this won't be released by Christmas in the US.

[Tree_UK]

As your responce fits my comments about not requiring an apology, I will respond, what is this thing you have with apologies, by the way? I know what I would prefer and that is the game working for everyone, apologies would be nice, but worthless if they give up on fixing it.

This rubbish about playing into the hands of shoddy software companies is just that, rubbish, how would an apology from a shoddy software company make you feel better, if they are shoddy they are probably also dodgy and as I said in my post an apology is worth nothing if it isnt backed up with something worthwhile self flaggelation maybe, or a nice spell in the comfy chair.

Too late to do much about how it was released etc, we have already bought it so now lets get it fixed and yes I totally agree a quick update wouldn't hurt, especially after a hot fix that was anything but a fix, then we get 10 days of silence, the team at Maddox games really needs to get themselves organised, or this won't be released by Christmas in the US.

My response was aimed more at Troopers post, An apology usually means someone actually cares about what effect there actions have caused, with all the untruths before release it is quite clear that the Oleg/Luthier that were once worshipped by so many here have a much darker side.
However, I would like to think that Luthier has some respect for this community since he relies upon it so heavily now with the current state of CLOD. Obviously we will never see an apology, I know that, but I still think its a shame, because if Luthier could find it in himself to make a small statement of fact I am sure that it would do a lot to boost moral and to put the whole release mess behind us.

We have to remember that someone somewhere as made a lot of money out of this mess and I think we are owed some sort of explanation at least, if that is too much to ask or too painful to do, then in the very least after admitting here on these forums that a half finished game was released give us just 5 mins of your time on a weekly basis to let us know that it isn't all about the money anymore there is still some love here for the community.

[Laszlo]

The man (Luthier) just made a post what, a week ago, saying that his prescence here might indicate lack of work on the game. For crying out loud, just sit back and have a cigar and cognac and WAIT for the next patch.

LUTHIER! Please take your time making us the best WW2 flight sim we will see in at least the nest 5-8 years and ignore these annoyances on the forum.
We know you and the team are doing your best and we can patiently wait like adults for your next release. Thanks again, and remember to take a few days off here and there.

No! You are wrong.

Give us a short message about the patchstatus or what they patching / fixing. Did they only patch his list of errors or did they fix our reported errors too?

[Ibis]

Oh God,
I've fallen into a kindergarten forum.
Sorry, don't think me a child molester I joined this forum by accident.
I thought it was about a flight simulator.
cheers.

[Skoshi Tiger]

+2

wah i don't get regular updates on luthiers daily bowel movements wah wah...i'm pissed that i wasn't smart enough to wait a week before mortgaging my house to buy it wah...!!

Get some perspective, find a shelf to put clod on and use the few bucks you saved from the russian exchange rate to buy yourselves some tissues.

lol!

[ZaltysZ]

Some of you want too much. Devs won't give you premature changelog, because it can backfire (i.e. it turns out that something isn't fixed when it has been announced as fixed). In addition, game is "heavy" as software product, it takes sometime to prepare a snapshots for testing, and you need to do enough changes so that snapshots will be worth a testing. You can't just handle a new snapshot to testers every time something small is fixed - it is not effective way to work.

What do you want from devs? I am sure they can write: "We are fixing game..." every week or day, but is that really necessary? They can't always give more details. Hoping for patch every week is a bit optimistic. :)

P.S. If programmer gets a list of task and required time for completion, but manager constantly asks to update him on progress in detailed manner, programmer can't usually work effectively. People don't like "are we there yet?" question to be repeated endlessly.

[Skoshi Tiger]

with all the untruths before release

Tree what are 'all the untruths' that you always go on about? Could you please link to the original posts?

We were promised by the developers more accurate flight models and damage models. We got them.

We were promised by the developers highly detailed terrain and objects. We got them.

We were told that a machine that could run IL2 1946 at maximum settings could run COD on mimimum settings, thankfully they were being overly cautious there an any people can run the sim on medium if not higher.

We were also promised dynamic weather, as far i I know we have it but most PC at this stage can't run it so you have to actually go and build a mission that's got it. How many have tried?

We have also been given a list of priorities and bugs that the developers are working towards solving. How often do you want the developers to come here and say "Sorry! Not ready yet" weekly, Daily or on the hour? Personally I'ld rather them being hard at work and tell us when they got something to show us.

Cheers!

[carguy_]

The man (Luthier) just made a post what, a week ago, saying that his prescence here might indicate lack of work on the game. For crying out loud, just sit back and have a cigar and cognac and WAIT for the next patch.

LUTHIER! Please take your time making us the best WW2 flight sim we will see in at least the nest 5-8 years and ignore these annoyances on the forum.
We know you and the team are doing your best and we can patiently wait like adults for your next release. Thanks again, and remember to take a few days off here and there.

110% agreed. Excellent post.

[philip.ed]

Tree what are 'all the untruths' that you always go on about? Could you please link to the original posts?

We were promised by the developers more accurate flight models and damage models. We got them.

We were promised by the developers highly detailed terrain and objects. We got them.

We were told that a machine that could run IL2 1946 at maximum settings could run COD on mimimum settings, thankfully they were being overly cautious there an any people can run the sim on medium if not higher.

We were also promised dynamic weather, as far i I know we have it but most PC at this stage can't run it so you have to actually go and build a mission that's got it. How many have tried?

We have also been given a list of priorities and bugs that the developers are working towards solving. How often do you want the developers to come here and say "Sorry! Not ready yet" weekly, Daily or on the hour? Personally I'ld rather them being hard at work and tell us when they got something to show us.

Cheers!

I can run Il-2 on max. But I know that CloD will not run on my current system, because RoF won't. (Dual Core processor, 2.0GHZ, ATI 4650 512mb, 4GB RAM). And even if CloD would run on the lowest settings, it would look and play worse than Il-2 or BoB2.
And the promises? Whilst I don't agree with the sentiment the team need to make allowances to suit certain people's wishes, Tree is correct in stating that we were promised many features. Oleg said that the terrain would be 'photo-realistic'. He also alluded to a dynamic campaign (which the original 2006 release said we would get). Other features included the ability to man AAA guns, and the weather model shown in the development shots clearly wasn't implemented into the game.
On the face of it, certain promises were kept, but the game is so bugged, the features just can't be used, sadly.

[Rather peeved]

Tree what are 'all the untruths' that you always go on about? Could you please link to the original posts?

We were promised by the developers more accurate flight models and damage models. We got them.

We were promised by the developers highly detailed terrain and objects. We got them.

We were told that a machine that could run IL2 1946 at maximum settings could run COD on mimimum settings, thankfully they were being overly cautious there an any people can run the sim on medium if not higher.

We were also promised dynamic weather, as far i I know we have it but most PC at this stage can't run it so you have to actually go and build a mission that's got it. How many have tried?

We have also been given a list of priorities and bugs that the developers are working towards solving. How often do you want the developers to come here and say "Sorry! Not ready yet" weekly, Daily or on the hour? Personally I'ld rather them being hard at work and tell us when they got something to show us.

Cheers!

c'mon mate - we got snowed.

they were showing us videos of the game running brilliantly just a week before release, when it was impossible on any such system to get these results.

they told us they'd gone out and recorded new aircraft sounds and even dubbed real merlin sounds over promo vids.

they spun us some nonsense about how brilliant the new AI modelling was.

Luthier got into some hilarious slanging match with tree a couple of months before release in which he implied tree was off his rocker to suggest the game was not running properly.

all the youtube vids released showing dogfights were done over ocean - not over land because the developers must have known how shocking performance was over land.

Don't get me wrong - i want to see this game come good. But man, if this were any other product I'd be thumping my fist on the counter demanding a refund.

[philip.ed]

That is true; Tinus even said that he played the game at 1/2 speed and then sped it up in order to show that the game was playable. That's fine for film-making, but is completely unscrupulous (note: not Tinus' fault) in showing that the game was playing properly.

[ATAG_Dutch]

If an apology is out of the question .............

'Following the release of IL2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover many of you have reported bugs and performance issues. Here is a message from Ilya Shevchenko, Game Producer:'

“Hi everyone. I’m very sorry to see that some of you are having technical difficulties with the game. It pains me personally to see that these problems are preventing you from enjoying everything the game has to offer.The team has been working at a frantic pace since mid-summer. I personally have been working 12+ hour days 7 days a week pretty much non-stop, with only a short breather around Christmas. Optimization has always been our top priority; for example, the game you are playing now is roughly twice as fast as the version shown at Igromir.We are continuing to work at the same pace now, after the release – no weekends in sight. We are working very hard to make the game better, and we hope that even those of you who are unhappy with the state of the game are still able to see that it is worth the wait, and that you have faith in our ability to improve on your experience.''

How many do we need?

[Trooper117]

Thanks for re posting that.. people forget so easily don't they!

[CharveL]

'Following the release of IL2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover many of you have reported bugs and performance issues. Here is a message from Ilya Shevchenko, Game Producer:'

“Hi everyone. I’m very sorry to see that some of you are having technical difficulties with the game. It pains me personally to see that these problems are preventing you from enjoying everything the game has to offer.The team has been working at a frantic pace since mid-summer. I personally have been working 12+ hour days 7 days a week pretty much non-stop, with only a short breather around Christmas. Optimization has always been our top priority; for example, the game you are playing now is roughly twice as fast as the version shown at Igromir.We are continuing to work at the same pace now, after the release – no weekends in sight. We are working very hard to make the game better, and we hope that even those of you who are unhappy with the state of the game are still able to see that it is worth the wait, and that you have faith in our ability to improve on your experience.''

How many do we need?

Well, one apology a week would be appropriate and not too much to ask.

And a pony. Tree would like a pony delivered personally by Luthier on bended knee for all the butthurt he has caused him.

[raaaid]

you should have tried f1 2010

not a single update from devs

never looked back on that game

you sound to me like a child that asks for candy and when its given some he cries even more for more candy

and the worse thing you can do is follow the child game

[Skoshi Tiger]

I can run Il-2 on max. But I know that CloD will not run on my current system, because RoF won't. (Dual Core processor, 2.0GHZ, ATI 4650 512mb, 4GB RAM). And even if CloD would run on the lowest settings, it would look and play worse than Il-2 or BoB2.


So you don't have the game yet? or did I miss read that second sentance?

ROF is a dog on a dual core that why I did a stop gap upgrade to a quad core q9400. Unfortunately I sold off my dual core to cover costs before COD so I couldn't comment on what in -game performance you could expect.


And the promises? Whilst I don't agree with the sentiment the team need to make allowances to suit certain people's wishes, Tree is correct in stating that we were promised many features. Oleg said that the terrain would be 'photo-realistic'. He also alluded to a dynamic campaign (which the original 2006 release said we would get). Other features included the ability to man AAA guns, and the weather model shown in the development shots clearly wasn't implemented into the game.
On the face of it, certain promises were kept, but the game is so bugged, the features just can't be used, sadly.

There were many thing talked about since '96 when the game was first announced. Depending upon settings, height above ground, time of day, etc some of the screen shots from game can be fairly close to photo-realistic.

I can remember a lot of people asking for dynamic campaigns, but I aslo remember Oleg stating that he was in favour of static campaigns for Historical events like the Battle of Britain. I think he did state that there was scope for third parties to implement features like that. (I could be wrong about the third parties)

Manning AAA guns would be cool but clearly not a prority at the moment and as stated before the weather system is a resource hog and it'll be a while before we can run it.

Unlike a some others I haven't had any bugs that have stopped me from playing the game. Untill the first patch was released I flew over the ocean. Then I stayed away from the cities.

In it's current state it's fairly good performance wise. (Always room for improvement though ;) Don't want them getting too comfy do we! ) We still need the sound system fixed up (Multi player) and AI raidio communications sorted out, but this is just the usual fixes that accompany a games release.

Both A10 and ROF had similar problems. I can't remember a flight sim initial release that didn't have problems.

I have just spent the last hour or so playing on a dogfight server with a ping of 450 odd (my fault for living in the Antipodies) and about 15 players. In '46 this would have been unplayable due to warping and stutters especially when AAA starts to go off, It was smooth and I only saw 1 plane warp once. It was an absolute Hoot!

Yes there are some problems with the game, but there is alot right with it as well

Cheers!

[philip.ed]

Mate, I agree that some people should just be happy with the fact that there's even a new game out in this area of simulation :-P
But Oleg said a lot of things, and I think the team were just pressed for time. I don't believe that they are unscrupulous in any way, but clearly that impression may come across when looking at the trailers shown, and the comments from the devs in the update threads.

[Blackdog_kt]

Some of you want too much. Devs won't give you premature changelog, because it can backfire (i.e. it turns out that something isn't fixed when it has been announced as fixed). In addition, game is "heavy" as software product, it takes sometime to prepare a snapshots for testing, and you need to do enough changes so that snapshots will be worth a testing. You can't just handle a new snapshot to testers every time something small is fixed - it is not effective way to work.

What do you want from devs? I am sure they can write: "We are fixing game..." every week or day, but is that really necessary? They can't always give more details. Hoping for patch every week is a bit optimistic. :)

P.S. If programmer gets a list of task and required time for completion, but manager constantly asks to update him on progress in detailed manner, programmer can't usually work effectively. People don't like "are we there yet?" question to be repeated endlessly.


+1, that's pretty much my take on things.

Communication and feedback to the community is needed, but it shouldn't be the job of the guys doing the coding because it takes up A LOT of time.

Half the people here continuously post about issues that are mentioned in threads just 2 spots above their own and they manage to miss it because they're too impatient to read.

I've been actively trying to help by sharing my observations on how certain things work in the sim, guess what, i had repeated the same things at least 4-5 times within a week because people just can't be bothered to read. They expect to pop in here, ask something and get a response within an hour or so.

I actually started to copy-paste all of my posts to a text document and compiling some sort of FAQ because, i kid you not, it actually saves me time when someone asks the same question for the umpteenth time: i just paste a wall of text from my .txt file and tell them to use the forum search function, which saves me enough time to test more features and possibly answer something that hasn't been answered a million times already.

I'm not complaining mind you, it's not a job for me and if i was unhappy about it i would stop doing it. What i'm saying is that it's too time consuming.

So, is this what we want them to spend their time on, or fixing the sim?

Then how do we ensure that the needed communication exists?

1) A full-time community manager to babysit these discussions. This is what they said they'll do.

2) A weekly dev update, but don't expect much in that because of the reasons above.

I agree it's not much to spend 5-10 minutes per week on such an update, i really do.

I just don't trust half the forum population to be content with the amount of information a busy coder can provide in the span of 10 minutes. Specific changelogs and bug lists will be demanded and then, if a feature slips past the deadlines and doesn't make it to the patch everyone will be all "torches and pitchforks" once again.

Having a full-time community manager is the more effective solution.

[whatnot]

Lets just get some things clear here, its not as if the game was released and after a few weeks the community found a few small bugs that needed fixing, this game was released with the full knowledge by the Dev's that it was not fit for purpose, they knew it had all manner of issues, and sadly they did deliberately mislead us in the run up to release. If an apology is out of the question then in the very least they should be bending over backwards (if they wish to carry on with future products) to keep us informed. Those of you who do not feel an apology is necessary (because its only $50) are just playing into the hands of shoddy software companies who believe they can release any pile of junk through steam without any comebacks, because getting refunds from steam is impossible.

Just to set the record straight: my comments about recurring communication was not about getting an apology. I recon this was not directed to me, but just in case. I don't want the creators of the one and only real ww2 flight sim to apologise for anything.. what we have is already well worth 50$ for ppl with enough hw to enjoy for it!

But getting for example once a week updates on how are they progressing and what's the 'top 5' at the moment would be great! It doesn't have to be a commitment or a feature list, more of an longish tweet that would probably do it for a lot of people.

And this is not shoddy software company or a piece of junk we're dealing with there. These guys have vision and passion to create something that no one else in the industry does due to it's lack of ROI and I salute them for that!

http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com/images/smilies/salute.gif

[whatnot]

Oh God,
I've fallen into a kindergarten forum.
Sorry, don't think me a child molester I joined this forum by accident.
I thought it was about a flight simulator.
cheers.

I've always wondered about this anomaly happening throughout the web forums: the moment people see a text not to their liking then #1 comment is about the author being a child.

For us geezer like me it feels pretty good actually. :)

[whatnot]

I've been actively trying to help by sharing my observations on how certain things work in the sim, guess what, i had repeated the same things at least 4-5 times within a week because people just can't be bothered to read. They expect to pop in here, ask something and get a response within an hour or so.


Your patience and contribution in to this forum never ceases to amaze me. My hat goes off to the detailed support posts you've written so far. Great to hear there is a FAQ in the oven! You should apply for the community manager position.. ;-)

And I can't blame people for assuming they conveniently get an answer to their questions for a product they've bought without reading through walls of random text. If the information is not part of the manual or similar easily accessible source of support material available there should be answers available in a community of some sort.

[kendo65]

I'd be interested to hear of the longer term roadmap for features like dynamic weather, campaign, DX11, 64-bit exe, etc.

Even a rough outline of what sequence we can expect to see those features appear.

Though I expect there is still too much to be done fixing the current state and getting up to standard with AI, comms, map, etc.

[kimosabi]

Jesus... do we need the dev team to babysit us? Go do something else and don't think about it.

There are no realistic or definite ETAs in software development, deal with it. We know what they're working on, and when something comes out, it'll be out.

Well put.

[Strike]

Like u-boats:

Run silent, run deep....

Attack from nowhere with a devastating blow.

The next update is gonna sink us for sure :p nvm that... actually: Be sure!

[SG1_Lud]

The only thing I miss is an organized way to keep track of the bugs, an their status. Some users of this forums had tried , but I believe this is a job for the dev team, or a middle man, because they have the tools and the knowledge to keep the list useful, updated and in some cases with an explanation

Sometimes I wonder if our efforts to comunicate issues to the devs are in vain or not. Not easy to be a good beta tester without feedback from the other end.

[CharveL]

The only thing I miss is an organized way to keep track of the bugs, an their status. Some users of this forums had tried , but I believe this is a job for the dev team, or a middle man, because they have the tools and the knowledge to keep the list useful, updated and in some cases with an explanation

Sometimes I wonder if our efforts to comunicate issues to the devs are in vain or not. Not easy to be a good beta tester without feedback from the other end.

Yep, I can point out a number of things that need attention or would help but I get the feeling they're still in scramble - or perhaps near panic - mode for US release and can't even think about that kind of stuff. I'd also bet they're still in the midst of trying to hire staff.

[Tiger27]

Your patience and contribution in to this forum never ceases to amaze me. My hat goes off to the detailed support posts you've written so far. Great to hear there is a FAQ in the oven! You should apply for the community manager position.. ;-)

And I can't blame people for assuming they conveniently get an answer to their questions for a product they've bought without reading through walls of random text. If the information is not part of the manual or similar easily accessible source of support material available there should be answers available in a community of some sort.

What do you have against Blackdog_kt, wishing this upon him is almost evil :-P

[whatnot]

What do you have against Blackdog_kt, wishing this upon him is almost evil :-P

This task was appointed to you. And if you do not find a way, no one will.

[Gerfaut]

The only thing I miss is an organized way to keep track of the bugs, an their status. Some users of this forums had tried , but I believe this is a job for the dev team, or a middle man, because they have the tools and the knowledge to keep the list useful, updated and in some cases with an explanation

Sometimes I wonder if our efforts to comunicate issues to the devs are in vain or not. Not easy to be a good beta tester without feedback from the other end.

IMHO they could easily make an online bug tracker available to the community. For example, Mantis would be perfect, so the dev would'nt have to gather intel on the forums here and there, the resulting thing being an ungodly mess.

Oh, and Mantis is free...
http://www.mantisbt.org/

[whatnot]

IMHO they could easily make an online bug tracker available to the community. For example, Mantis would be perfect, so the dev would'nt have to gather intel on the forums here and there, the resulting thing being an ungodly mess.

Oh, and Mantis is free...
http://www.mantisbt.org/

Since Insurber already started the good work of collecting issues and prioritising them based on user feedback, he might aswell take the next step and add the data into Mantis for more structured approach.

*wink wink, nudge nudge*

[Luftrofl]

You bunch of crybabies in here finally got your update...now please STFU about updates and Luthier not posting every week.

Feel better now tough guy? :rolleyes:

If you don't want to read the thread you can always just not click on it.

[Winger]

You bunch of crybabies in here finally got your update...now please STFU about updates and Luthier not posting every week.

Someone that likes to be obnoxious:P Something went wrong in your childhood? :P
Nvm just Joking *g*

Winger

[ATAG_Dutch]

You bunch of crybabies in here finally got your update...now please STFU about updates and Luthier not posting every week.

'Formula88'.........Is that some sort of crybaby food?:confused::-P

[Strike]

Mods can we please lock this thread? It's annoyingly outdated.