Strike
05-25-2011, 05:09 PM
Hi, I just thought I'd gather some attention to this, as it could very well be a step in the right direction for both Maddox Games and the IL-2 series community.
I personally feel, together with some other forum members that play CloD, that there is a need for a better and more precise way to acheive seamless integration of bug-detection, reporting, feedback and progress-status.
That is why I ask YOU who are interested in having your voice heard in a more organized way, to have a look at some examples of software-development assisted by the community:
For the ARMA II (Armed Assault 2) community there has been developed a tool called "DevHeaven" where not only the game developers, but the mod developers can view lists of bugs reported by the community AND their own teammembers. This allows the developers to handpick errors and communicate directly with the reporting community member to create a problem-solving brainstorming. It also eases the process of organizing patches by simply adding or removing a reported error to the "To-do" list for the upcoming patch. If the developers realize the bug won't be fixed for the first patch, they can simply "postpone" it and it will still remain in the list of unfixed stuff. This interface is also open to the community so we can freely browse the bugs and comment the ones we are experiencing too. The best part is that if you discover a bug, you can head over to the site and look for someone with the same bug, if you are the only one then voila, you can create a new bug report without "double-posting" and clogging up the site.
An example here from a user-reported bug in ARMA II with following comments:
http://dev-heaven.net/issues/20022
I think this shows how the user is helping the devs by showing how to reproduce it, provide sufficient info on it and then the devs eventually change status to "100%" finished after the fault has been found in the game code and corrected.
http://dev-heaven.net/issues/17595
Another where a crew-position in a M113 tank is missing, that the devs isolate it to only a specific M113 unit type, then fix it and add it to the next patch release.
Now that's only DevHeaven which was exclusively designed for ARMA 2 + mods, but have a look at this one too, which is very alike:
Natural Selection 2 is a standalone game, built from scratch with new engine and all. For this, the team had to create all their game-editing tools, from code writers, debuggers, 3D viewers and such, to the actual game itself with content.
They use a 3rd party software called Pivotal Tracker http://www.pivotaltracker.com/ .
Essentially this does much of the same as the DevHeaven version does, except it's been made for a wider use. Any software developer could use this.
Anyways the natural selection 2 site has a progress tab that shows the progress being made on the subjects of the next stable version. This will help the community to know most importantly what NOT to complain about or ask to be added/modified. And save us from double-posting.
http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/progress
You can see here as of today (25.05.2011) the goals for build version 178, and the progress being made. And everything is updated live!
They have a page on a site called "Getsatisfaction.com" http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/products/unknownworlds_natural_selection_2 which is a place to make your voice heard. The devs will monitor this place for new ideas, feedback, and bugs, all properly labeled.
The idea of posting when, how and why you are having difficulties or seeing bugs will help other players try to reproduce the effect, which may in turn lead to the uncovering of a common bug, or a bug that exists on only a few similar hardware setups i.e.
I just dream that one day we can all PLAY the game, and enjoy it until we find something we don't enjoy (a bug or historical inaccuracy etc) and back it up here with references, facts and conclusions instead of leaving it ALL to the devteam.
Some of us on this forum are more than capable to dig out the most detailed info about anything in this sim, and if we could all perhaps "discuss" matters in the respective forum sections, we could narrow down the possibilities by using facts, references etc and then come to a conclusion. After that we can file it as a bug/feature request through a proper and tidy system. This request can easily be selected by the devs and added to their huge to-do list and set a goal for when to include this fix/update. Then after the patch is released, we can test the changes/additions and if all is well, approve it. Then it's history, done and fixed. Over to the next issue... If all is NOT well after a patch, it remains an issue, and is added back to the to-do list with comments on what's missing or not working properly.
I kindof want an organized list of bugfixes rather than a forum-post handwritten with the bottom point saying "and a lot of other minor fixes and bugs". Those small fixes and bugs should be present in the full-detailed list so that players are AWARE of the changes and can explore the changes to verify that they are actually fixed.
I think I made my point anyways, enough typing for now. Now vote! :D
I personally feel, together with some other forum members that play CloD, that there is a need for a better and more precise way to acheive seamless integration of bug-detection, reporting, feedback and progress-status.
That is why I ask YOU who are interested in having your voice heard in a more organized way, to have a look at some examples of software-development assisted by the community:
For the ARMA II (Armed Assault 2) community there has been developed a tool called "DevHeaven" where not only the game developers, but the mod developers can view lists of bugs reported by the community AND their own teammembers. This allows the developers to handpick errors and communicate directly with the reporting community member to create a problem-solving brainstorming. It also eases the process of organizing patches by simply adding or removing a reported error to the "To-do" list for the upcoming patch. If the developers realize the bug won't be fixed for the first patch, they can simply "postpone" it and it will still remain in the list of unfixed stuff. This interface is also open to the community so we can freely browse the bugs and comment the ones we are experiencing too. The best part is that if you discover a bug, you can head over to the site and look for someone with the same bug, if you are the only one then voila, you can create a new bug report without "double-posting" and clogging up the site.
An example here from a user-reported bug in ARMA II with following comments:
http://dev-heaven.net/issues/20022
I think this shows how the user is helping the devs by showing how to reproduce it, provide sufficient info on it and then the devs eventually change status to "100%" finished after the fault has been found in the game code and corrected.
http://dev-heaven.net/issues/17595
Another where a crew-position in a M113 tank is missing, that the devs isolate it to only a specific M113 unit type, then fix it and add it to the next patch release.
Now that's only DevHeaven which was exclusively designed for ARMA 2 + mods, but have a look at this one too, which is very alike:
Natural Selection 2 is a standalone game, built from scratch with new engine and all. For this, the team had to create all their game-editing tools, from code writers, debuggers, 3D viewers and such, to the actual game itself with content.
They use a 3rd party software called Pivotal Tracker http://www.pivotaltracker.com/ .
Essentially this does much of the same as the DevHeaven version does, except it's been made for a wider use. Any software developer could use this.
Anyways the natural selection 2 site has a progress tab that shows the progress being made on the subjects of the next stable version. This will help the community to know most importantly what NOT to complain about or ask to be added/modified. And save us from double-posting.
http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/progress
You can see here as of today (25.05.2011) the goals for build version 178, and the progress being made. And everything is updated live!
They have a page on a site called "Getsatisfaction.com" http://getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds/products/unknownworlds_natural_selection_2 which is a place to make your voice heard. The devs will monitor this place for new ideas, feedback, and bugs, all properly labeled.
The idea of posting when, how and why you are having difficulties or seeing bugs will help other players try to reproduce the effect, which may in turn lead to the uncovering of a common bug, or a bug that exists on only a few similar hardware setups i.e.
I just dream that one day we can all PLAY the game, and enjoy it until we find something we don't enjoy (a bug or historical inaccuracy etc) and back it up here with references, facts and conclusions instead of leaving it ALL to the devteam.
Some of us on this forum are more than capable to dig out the most detailed info about anything in this sim, and if we could all perhaps "discuss" matters in the respective forum sections, we could narrow down the possibilities by using facts, references etc and then come to a conclusion. After that we can file it as a bug/feature request through a proper and tidy system. This request can easily be selected by the devs and added to their huge to-do list and set a goal for when to include this fix/update. Then after the patch is released, we can test the changes/additions and if all is well, approve it. Then it's history, done and fixed. Over to the next issue... If all is NOT well after a patch, it remains an issue, and is added back to the to-do list with comments on what's missing or not working properly.
I kindof want an organized list of bugfixes rather than a forum-post handwritten with the bottom point saying "and a lot of other minor fixes and bugs". Those small fixes and bugs should be present in the full-detailed list so that players are AWARE of the changes and can explore the changes to verify that they are actually fixed.
I think I made my point anyways, enough typing for now. Now vote! :D